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Krauthammer- Where is Obama on Iran?

by Bob in Breckenridge ( 150 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Iran at June 19th, 2009 - 11:12 pm

Great op-ed by a brilliant man…

Hope and Change — but Not for Iran

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, June 19, 2009

Millions of Iranians take to the streets to defy a theocratic dictatorship that, among its other finer qualities, is a self-declared enemy of America and the tolerance and liberties it represents. The demonstrators are fighting on their own, but they await just a word that America is on their side.

And what do they hear from the president of the United States? Silence. Then, worse. Three days in, the president makes clear his policy: continued “dialogue” with their clerical masters.

Dialogue with a regime that is breaking heads, shooting demonstrators, expelling journalists, arresting activists. Engagement with — which inevitably confers legitimacy upon — leaders elected in a process that begins as a sham (only four handpicked candidates permitted out of 476) and ends in overt rigging.

Then, after treating this popular revolution as an inconvenience to the real business of Obama-Khamenei negotiations, the president speaks favorably of “some initial reaction from the Supreme Leader that indicates he understands the Iranian people have deep concerns about the election.”

Where to begin? “Supreme Leader”? Note the abject solicitousness with which the American president confers this honorific on a clerical dictator who, even as his minions attack demonstrators, offers to examine some returns in some electoral districts — a farcical fix that will do nothing to alter the fraudulence of the election.


This started out about election fraud. But like all revolutions, it has far outgrown its origins. What’s at stake now is the very legitimacy of this regime — and the future of the entire Middle East.

This revolution will end either as a Tiananmen (a hot Tiananmen with massive and bloody repression or a cold Tiananmen with a finer mix of brutality and co-optation) or as a true revolution that brings down the Islamic Republic.


All hangs in the balance. The Khamenei regime is deciding whether to do a Tiananmen. And what side is the Obama administration taking? None. Except for the desire that this “vigorous debate” (press secretary Robert Gibbs’s disgraceful euphemism) over election “irregularities” not stand in the way of U.S.-Iranian engagement on nuclear weapons.

Even from the narrow perspective of the nuclear issue, the administration’s geopolitical calculus is absurd. There is zero chance that any such talks will denuclearize Iran. On Monday, President Ahmadinejad declared yet again that the nuclear “file is shut, forever.” The only hope for a resolution of the nuclear question is regime change, which (if the successor regime were as moderate as pre-Khomeini Iran) might either stop the program, or make it manageable and nonthreatening.

That’s our fundamental interest. And our fundamental values demand that America stand with demonstrators opposing a regime that is the antithesis of all we believe.

And where is our president? Afraid of “meddling.” Afraid to take sides between the head-breaking, women-shackling exporters of terror — and the people in the street yearning to breathe free. This from a president who fancies himself the restorer of America’s moral standing in the world.



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150 Responses to “Krauthammer- Where is Obama on Iran?”
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  1. CloudyDay
    1 | June 20, 2009 12:32 am

    FBI: Child porn on accused museum shooter computer


    Child pornography was found on a computer belonging to the white supremacist [88-year-old James von Brunn] charged with shooting and killing a security guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum, the FBI said in court documents.

    Agents found the material on a desktop computer seized from the Annapolis, Md., apartment where 88-year-old James von Brunn lived with his son and son’s fiancee,…

    Authorities will analyze who had access to the computer to determine whether the pornography was von Brunn’s, or if it could have belonged to someone else…

    The documents didn’t say what form the pornography was in, or how much of it was there.

    It’s bad enough he killed someone, that he hated conservatives and Jews, but to top it off, he may have been looking at pictures of naked kids for jollies? Eeeewww.

  2. African Moondog
    2 | June 20, 2009 1:56 am

    I was going to say “First” as there were no comments after an hour but Cloudy Day sneaked in so “Second”.

    Where is everybody, still likkered from the earlier thread?

    On topic-A repressive regime can keep people under their thumb for only so long and then the people on their own volition gets ****** off. We are seeing that in Iran now. It is also a very dangerous period, as the regime may embark on foreign adventures that could destabilize the entire region, a la Argentina’s Galtieri.Galtieri miscalculated because he soon found out that Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan had balls and were not interested in the tired old hopey-changey appeasement of the ’70s.

    Perhaps the mullahs and Armadinnerjacket have realized that the TOTUS is no Ronald Reagan or even an early GWB whom I am missing more and more.

  3. vagabond trader
    3 | June 20, 2009 2:37 am

    Yes, I noticed Hussein refer to the mullah as Supreme Leader, that said it all for me. Surprised he didn’t send him an inshallah as well.

  4. vagabond trader
    4 | June 20, 2009 2:47 am

    Nice going, but you’ll send money to hamas.

  5. Speranza
    5 | June 20, 2009 4:52 am

    This is on another thread but should also be here.

    Andrew Sullivan knows who is at fault -- the Joooos!

  6. vagabond trader
    6 | June 20, 2009 6:01 am

    re: #5 by Speranza

    Love it. Sully sounds a bit like an edumacated Mel Gibson.After inbibing a fifth of cheap whiskey.

  7. 7 | June 20, 2009 6:30 am

    Somewhere here I mentioned emailing Hugh Hewitt about him putting a call out from his radio show and web site for Sullivan to call him. Now this was before the latest article by A.S.

    I wrote:

    Hey Hugh,

    Daily listener, Hewitt book buyer, and fan here and I have to tell you that I went from reading an article ( expounding on Andrew Sullivan’s continued ludicrous castigation of Sarah Palin and then I go to my home page which just happens to be and read you groveling for his opinion on the Iran election. I have to tell you that I couldn’t care less about the opinion of that puke. If you think it somehow reflects well on you to seek his opinion; I can only suggest you are highly mistaken.

    This is not simply about Palin, (who I like but not as a VP or P), but also his perpetual bone headedness for a number of years now…especially during the last election cycle. I do admit, I do not know what he could possibly bring to the table concerning Iran that is not covered elsewhere but I do know he does not belong in the same list as your other guests today …whom were GREAT.

    Other than that…keep up the good work.


    He responded:

    Fur: AS is doing important work on a democratic revolution. We can go back to disliking his content when it goes bad again. For now, root for the good guys in Iran. Hugh

    Hey Hugh!!! Its “gone bad” AGAIN!

    Like I said in my previous reference. I like Hugh but he is wrong…ALOT, but generally gets it right in the end. Hopefully this latest ASs screed will show him that he might want to listen to those looking to give him what fur.

  8. goddessoftheclassroom
    8 | June 20, 2009 7:11 am

    Good morning, y’all.

    A student of mine from last year stopped by to visit at the end of school. His parents were from Iran (American citizens now; my student was born here). My student, just 15 year old, said that the government couldn’t last much longer because the average age of the population was really young (I can’t remember the exact figure), and this group wasn’t going to put up with the oppression much longer.

    Youth naturally rebels.

  9. newsjunkie_ky
    9 | June 20, 2009 7:20 am

    Morning you all.
    Ace has posted this: Unconfirmed reports that Mousavi will be issuing a letter within the hour.

    And, a video of a suicide bomber. Not sure if it is the one at the Khomeini shrine.

  10. newsjunkie_ky
    10 | June 20, 2009 7:26 am

    Gateway Pundit: The police are massing at Revolution Square in Tehran.
    CTV reported:

    It’s going to be a bad day.

  11. Ma Sands
    11 | June 20, 2009 7:28 am

    Glup. ):

  12. 12 | June 20, 2009 7:30 am

    re: #8 by goddessoftheclassroom

    Unfortunately, it is the police and military that has the firearms.

    Now I don’t know if this is born from poverty or extreme gun control laws in Iran, but you have police with rifles and protesters with rocks.

  13. goddessoftheclassroom
    13 | June 20, 2009 7:35 am

    re: #12 by LanceKates

    It’s a totalitarian regime--the people only have the right to do as they’re told.

  14. 14 | June 20, 2009 7:36 am

    re: #13 by goddessoftheclassroom

    Every person has every right. Rights are not granted by government, only infringed upon by them.

    The youth in Iran are realizing that and standing up for their rights.

    The question is, does the government have the power to enforce their oppression?

    If so, this is an ill-fated movement. If not, things are going to become very different in Iran.

  15. Ma Sands
    15 | June 20, 2009 7:37 am

    re: #3 by vagabond trader

    Yes, I noticed Hussein refer to the mullah as Supreme Leader, that said it all for me. Surprised he didn’t send him an inshallah as well.

    Yeah, Mark Steyn really takes off on that:

  16. newsjunkie_ky
    16 | June 20, 2009 7:38 am

    Can’t imagine the ‘government’ of Iran would allow the people to own guns. They don’t need guns for honor killings, knives and stones will work.

  17. vagabond trader
    17 | June 20, 2009 7:40 am

    re: #8 by goddessoftheclassroom

    Morning Goddess! All the more reason to continue our support via radio broadcasts and whatever else we can do,in spite of our present administration.

    See link in #4

  18. newsjunkie_ky
    18 | June 20, 2009 7:40 am

    bHUSSEINobama, why be the potUS when you can be leader of billions of muslims and ruler of the world.

  19. goddessoftheclassroom
    19 | June 20, 2009 7:40 am

    re: #14 by LanceKates

    In America, yes; not in Iran. The youth of Iran is now trying to rectify that.

  20. vagabond trader
    20 | June 20, 2009 7:41 am

    re: #15 by Ma Sands

    He relished groveling to the old pervert. Blecch!

    Hi Ma!

  21. vagabond trader
    21 | June 20, 2009 7:42 am

    re: #16 by newsjunkie_ky

    They could win same way the mullahs took over in 79, lots of angry students. It can happen again, they need moral support from free people.

    Hey newsjunkie!

  22. 22 | June 20, 2009 7:44 am

    re: #16 by newsjunkie_ky

    well, just about every government will say that its people don’t NEED firearms.

    And, in truth, a time may come that we don’t need these tools that fire projectiles via explosive expansion of gas….. because we’ll have our ray guns that Star Trek promised us.

    Firearms never seem warranted by Governments….. most governments would be content to only have armed military and police.

    That’s why WE need to be armed, as citizens.

  23. vagabond trader
    23 | June 20, 2009 7:47 am

    re: #22 by LanceKates

    Oh yeah the tyrants to be know this very well and would dearly love to abolish private ownership.Lots of luck on that one Hussein.

  24. 24 | June 20, 2009 7:50 am

    re: #23 by vagabond trader

    There’s a new movement. When you can’t ban the gun, work on the ammo.

    OSHA is becoming a new arm of gun control. If you can highly regulate ammunition AND reloading supplies, then you can enforce gun control without having to PASS Gun Control laws.

  25. vagabond trader
    25 | June 20, 2009 7:52 am

    re: #24 by LanceKates

    I know, heard about this a while back. Have to keep on top of these commies at all times. That being said, even in my very blue state we have a devoted lot of gun nuts and this will not go over well.

  26. newsjunkie_ky
    26 | June 20, 2009 7:55 am

    re: #21 by vagabond trader

    Hey VT,
    I wasn’t paying that much attention back then.

    I do hope the students are able to stay organized. But they’re just a bunch of stone-clinging, green carrying, non-teabaggers--j.garafalo

  27. 27 | June 20, 2009 7:58 am

    re: #25 by vagabond trader

    The best bet is for each state to pass a bill similar to the one passed by Montana and Tennessee.

    The federal government has no right over any firearms or firearm supplies manufactured and sold within the state.

  28. goddessoftheclassroom
    28 | June 20, 2009 8:05 am


    Just when I thought I couldn’t despise our president any more:,2933,527868,00.html

  29. vagabond trader
    29 | June 20, 2009 8:09 am

    re: #26 by newsjunkie_ky

    You forgot ….racists.

    Oh, here is another woman I have a girl crush on. I intend to do the same when the census comes knocking..

  30. Ma Sands
    30 | June 20, 2009 8:11 am

    re: #28 by goddessoftheclassroom

    Now, that is a well-written article!

  31. newsjunkie_ky
    31 | June 20, 2009 8:11 am

    re: #28 by goddessoftheclassroom

    He was released in 2007. But this proves we need to keep them ALL in Gitmo.

  32. vagabond trader
    32 | June 20, 2009 8:13 am

    All goat shaggers captured from now on should be immediately dispatched to their moon god.

  33. newsjunkie_ky
    33 | June 20, 2009 8:15 am

    re: #29 by vagabond trader

    Yes, I did forget racists. How could I forget that, I’ve been called that many times while raging against shamnesty and the hussein.

    I totally agree on Michelle Bachman and am going to do the same thing. Our local talk radio guy heavily promoted her yesterday and is going to stand with her as well. He is the guy Michelle Malkin featured on her blog for sending all the Pork Rinds to Chuck U Shumer.

  34. vagabond trader
    34 | June 20, 2009 8:17 am

    re: #33 by newsjunkie_ky

    Pork rinds to Shumer? Now that is hilarious.

    1.0 had a sekrit thread about Michelle B and I imagine those elevated minds railed against her Christian beliefs.

  35. newsjunkie_ky
    35 | June 20, 2009 8:21 am

    re: #34 by vagabond trader

    I almost never venture to look at the front page, but did just now. Good grief, it’s a thread (over 400 comments) on a mini pig.

  36. vagabond trader
    36 | June 20, 2009 8:23 am

    re: #35 by newsjunkie_ky

    lol, yeah mini pig, no comment on that. I found the Michele B thread while googling her, it was an accident honest!

  37. Ma Sands
    37 | June 20, 2009 8:25 am

    re: #33 by newsjunkie_ky

    Ahhhh, thank you! I intended to click into that link when vagabond trader posted it, but got distracted……I love Michele so much! : ) Going back to read her words of thoughtfulness now…..

  38. vagabond trader
    38 | June 20, 2009 8:26 am

    re: #27 by LanceKates

    Agree! Excellent fallback position against the statists.


  39. 39 | June 20, 2009 8:29 am

    re: #38 by vagabond trader

    It is just sad that the states have to specifically pass that kind of bill, given the Constitution itself limits the Federal Government.

    There was a time the Constitution mattered. I’d say that ended about 150 years ago.

  40. vagabond trader
    40 | June 20, 2009 8:32 am

    re: #39 by LanceKates

    It is also sad that our options are limited right now considering that we are dealing with the “I WON” crowd. At least this is something.

  41. no2liberals
    41 | June 20, 2009 8:39 am

    Jib Jab nails it.
    He’s Barack Obama.

  42. Ma Sands
    42 | June 20, 2009 8:44 am

    re: #33 by newsjunkie_ky

    Huh…..this is easy to get around….merely say, “I cannot comply with that question….and that question….”, etc. --those are answers, right? : )

    Shelly Lowe, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Census Bureau, said Mrs. Bachmann is “misreading” the law.

    She sent a portion of the U.S. legal code that says anyone over 18 years of age who refuses to answer “any of the questions” on the census can be fined up to $5,000.

  43. newsjunkie_ky
    43 | June 20, 2009 9:10 am

    Ma Sands,
    The reason they have acorn involved is to falsify the census so they can redraw congressional lines and gain more dems in the House.

  44. Ma Sands
    44 | June 20, 2009 9:42 am

    re: #43 by newsjunkie_ky

    I know. I’ve heard that. And I would believe it by personal experience --when they first came to Minneapolis several years ago, I had never heard of them before, so was going to invite the lady head of the chapter to my house for “tea and crumpets”…..but, in exchanging e-mails, I got such a sense of not being told anything of what they were all about, that I did a google search……and immediately canceled the tea party…..

  45. newsjunkie_ky
    45 | June 20, 2009 10:00 am

    re: #44 by Ma Sands

    Good for you to disinvite that woman. you poor thing living in MN. It’s not quite as bad here in KY, but we do have a dem gov. Hopefully that will change soon.

  46. newsjunkie_ky
    46 | June 20, 2009 10:05 am

    You all must visit Urban Infidel’s site for info on a NYC rally in support of the Iranian protests.

    She was banned for posting about attending a Geert Wilders event in NYC.

  47. newsjunkie_ky
    47 | June 20, 2009 10:06 am

  48. newsjunkie_ky
    48 | June 20, 2009 10:09 am

    OK, trying to post a link to urbaninfidel’s blog and it won’t let me.

    She is doing great work in NYC.

    type in

    but with no spaces.

  49. 49 | June 20, 2009 10:10 am

    re: #42 by Ma Sands

    Do we get to see the census form in advance so we can determine the Constitutional nature of the questions?

    After all, it is unconstitutional to require gathering data in the census apart from name/age and possibly gender of anyone living in any given home.

    My interests, religion, political stances and other such bits of information are not allowed to be REQUIRED on a census. They can ask it and I can choose to answer it, but I also have the right to NOT answer it.

    If they fine folks for not answering ALL of the questions, then it could quickly be considered a violation of the 4th and 5th Amendment Rights as well as possibly the 1st Amendment (after all, the freedom of speech is also a freedom to NOT speak)… not to mention the oft-forgotten 9th Amendment.

  50. Ma Sands
    50 | June 20, 2009 10:15 am

    re: #47 by LanceKates

    Okay, I’ll have those Amendments all nicely printed out in large, colorful letters, and when they come to the door, I’ll make them pore over my charts with me, at every question….. : )

  51. 51 | June 20, 2009 10:20 am

    re: #48 by Ma Sands

    Heh…. given that ACORN is going to be handling this, the person who takes your information may not be able to read well enough.

    I remember when I was at a lefty protest-- apparently I like to suffer — I was speaking to someone who was ranting about how the president was an evil monkey who needed to be tossed out of office along with Cheney (this was a few years ago). They had a sign saying that we needed to take over Halliburton and fire everyone and put in unemployed people instead. Ignoring the illogical nature of that, I asked “Does the government have the constitutional right to do that?”

    Their answer was “Who cares?”

    THAT is now the attitude of those who run our country. “The Constitution? Who cares…. it was written by a bunch of dead white males. We’re in power now.”

    Sometimes I wonder, when he took the oath of office, saying he swears to defend the constitution, if he thought “Huh…. I should read that thing sometime.”

  52. goddessoftheclassroom
    52 | June 20, 2009 10:22 am

    I am indebted to census info for helping me in family history research. I don’t mind answering the questions that have always been asked, but I’ll get prickly about anything nosier.

  53. Ma Sands
    53 | June 20, 2009 10:24 am

    re: #51 by LanceKates

    Yeah…..I’m pretty sure my life will end, when it does, by getting my head chopped off…..

  54. newsjunkie_ky
    54 | June 20, 2009 10:36 am

    When I want to post a link, apparently I POST a link. lol

    Sorry for the multiples.

  55. newsjunkie_ky
    55 | June 20, 2009 10:37 am

    Ma Sands,

    No ‘ululululululululululululu’ for us. I will not submit.

  56. vagabond trader
    56 | June 20, 2009 10:40 am

    Here is the 2010 census questionaire.Looks damned intrusive to me!

  57. 57 | June 20, 2009 10:42 am

    re: #53 by Ma Sands

    Nah, but if you don’t give in to the Government, expect to be fined and/or arrested at some point.

  58. 58 | June 20, 2009 10:45 am

    re: #56 by vagabond trader

    I’m on page one and already confused.

    Include people who live here for at least 2 months, but not if they live somewhere else for at least 2 months.

    Given that there are 12 months in a year, what’re the odds that someone who lives with me for only 2 months HASN’T lived somewhere else for at least 2 months?

    Basically, they’re not wanting to count transient folks or people who move often?

  59. 59 | June 20, 2009 10:47 am

    What does the age of my house, or the amount of money I’ve made off my land agriculturally have to do with the census?

    QUestions 16-18 (on page 6) bother me as well. Why does the government want to know how much I’d be willing to sell my home for?

  60. Ma Sands
    60 | June 20, 2009 10:47 am

    re: #56 by vagabond trader

    Thank you. I appreciate you researching that.

    re: #57 by LanceKates

    Yeah, and then what? : )

  61. vagabond trader
    61 | June 20, 2009 10:48 am

    re: #58 by LanceKates

    They are the ones who are confused if they think I’m answering these questions.

  62. 62 | June 20, 2009 10:52 am

    Page 9, question 16. plugging for national healthcare by finding out how many are currently not covered.

  63. vagabond trader
    63 | June 20, 2009 10:52 am

    Show me the statute which requires me to answer anything but how many people reside at my address.

  64. newsjunkie_ky
    64 | June 20, 2009 11:00 am

    Way to see how they can add a tax. What, one person living in a 3 bed, 2 1/2 bath, with fam room and double car garage. You are contributing too much for one person to GW. We are confiscating this house and giving it to the rightfull owners. Just spreading the housing around.

  65. newsjunkie_ky
    65 | June 20, 2009 11:03 am

    Wonder what the zero will put for Person 1 on page 8, where was this person born?

  66. vagabond trader
    66 | June 20, 2009 11:05 am

    What kind of heating fuel,cost of utilities, how much do you earn, mortgages.What, no credit card debt questions? This is way over the line.

  67. vagabond trader
    67 | June 20, 2009 11:09 am

    re: #64 by newsjunkie_ky

    Or confiscate it for the public good,rip out all the plumbing and give it to a poor “blended” family of 12.

    //…sort of

  68. 68 | June 20, 2009 11:09 am

    re: #63 by vagabond trader

    Per the Constitution? Article 1 Section 2 says Congress just has to count the number of people. One could make a case that you don’t even have to give the names.

    Here is the Census Bureau’s website explaining whether or not you are required to take the survey.

    Notice that, at no point in their answer, do they discuss whether or not you are required to take a survey.

    Article 1 Section 2 is what matters.

  69. vagabond trader
    69 | June 20, 2009 11:12 am

    re: #68 by LanceKates

    Thanks Lance, I’m bookmarking this. I have about had it with government and am pretty sure many others feel the same way.

  70. 70 | June 20, 2009 11:12 am

    re: #66 by vagabond trader

    I’m surprised they didn’t ask who you voted for.

    Though, they can likely determine that statistically by what the other answers are.

    It actually isn’t hard to find answers to question A without asking question A.

    Example: If I wanted to find the gender of people taking my survey, I’d add in a question asking if they’ve laughed at the 3 stooges. Males almost always say yes, females almost always say no.

    There are exceptions, of course, but statistically, it is the most common way to determine gender without asking for gender.

    (One of the things I remember from my college statistics class)

  71. 71 | June 20, 2009 11:17 am

    My my, you don’t say…

    The second I saw an ad with the cover of Scarborough’s book with his rat-like, smug, puss on the cover next to its bad-choice title(sorry too soon after Bennett’s) I knew it was one I would not bother reading. This guy gets it right about 50% of the time…kind of like Lieberman.

  72. vagabond trader
    72 | June 20, 2009 11:17 am

    re: #70 by LanceKates

    lol.Love the 3 stooges so I must be a deviant statistic.

    Notice how the gov website tap dances around the question about being required to answer the survey. I call BS with a hefty dose of intimidation.

  73. vagabond trader
    73 | June 20, 2009 11:19 am

    re: #71 by whatfur

    Yeah, the “house conservative” over at msnbc. Pathetic.

  74. Ma Sands
    74 | June 20, 2009 11:20 am

    re: #70 by LanceKates

    Okay, you gotta design, maybe even be the teacher, at a mandatory class for all A.C.O.R.N. people……maybe if you can get them laughing, they’ll open their ears…..and heart….. : )

  75. vagabond trader
    75 | June 20, 2009 11:25 am

    re: #65 by newsjunkie_ky

    Educational level—idiot

  76. 76 | June 20, 2009 11:25 am

    re: #72 by vagabond trader

    That makes you a very special woman. But we already knew that, didn’t we?


  77. vagabond trader
    77 | June 20, 2009 11:26 am

    re: #76 by LanceKates


  78. 78 | June 20, 2009 11:26 am

    re: #74 by Ma Sands

    Yup, I’m confused. heh. What am I supposed to teach them, except Constitutional Principle? heh.

  79. jakee308
    79 | June 20, 2009 11:27 am

    Hey, Michelle Obama; are you PROUD of America now that your husband has tossed millions of young Iranians under his Maxi-Clearance™ Bus?

  80. 80 | June 20, 2009 11:28 am

    I’m watching Freejack, that movie with Emilio Estavex and Mick Jagger.

    guy gets sucked forward in time to have his body used by a rich tycoon as a replacement for his own body, an apparent regular event in the FAR FAR future of November 2009.


  81. newsjunkie_ky
    81 | June 20, 2009 11:28 am

    If enough people, say the Tea Party people refuse to answer the rest of the questions, what can they do?
    If Michelle Bachman ‘ain’t’ gonna do it, then neither am I.

  82. 82 | June 20, 2009 11:29 am

    re: #79 by jakee308

    They got elected and are now set for life. What else is there for them to care about?

  83. vagabond trader
    83 | June 20, 2009 11:31 am

    re: #79 by jakee308

    MOs answer: “Let them eat kobe beef!”

  84. 84 | June 20, 2009 11:32 am

    re: #81 by newsjunkie_ky

    The question isn’t one of numbers. If it was truly required to answer all of the questions, and the $1000 fine per question was valid, then we’d all be out of a house, given the number of questions. heh.

    Maybe that’s why they’re being so vague…. then they can try and apply fines to folks who don’t answer all of the questions, and just hope that most folks pay without complaining.

  85. vagabond trader
    85 | June 20, 2009 11:34 am

    Shhh, don’t distract Hussein, he’s practicing a bow for Supreme Leader and an apology for being the Great Satan.

  86. Ma Sands
    86 | June 20, 2009 11:36 am

    re: #84 by LanceKates

    There’s some really good Christian law groups that take on stuff like that……get ‘em to do a class action suit for everybody in the country!

    hee hee…! : )

  87. vagabond trader
    87 | June 20, 2009 11:36 am

    re: #84 by LanceKates

    Threaten to call Fox news, they are fraidy scared of them.

  88. vagabond trader
    88 | June 20, 2009 11:37 am

    re: #86 by Ma Sands

    I like that! There’s also a conservative group along the lines of the aclu, except they are patriots. Can’t remember the name.

  89. Ed Mahmoud
    89 | June 20, 2009 11:41 am

    Obama cuts all funding for pro-democracy groups in Iran.

    It is quite obvious Obama is perfectly comfortable with the current rulers of Iran. Probably shares their opinion on Israel as well.

  90. jakee308
    90 | June 20, 2009 11:42 am

    Hey I’m getting tired of this “page refresh” that keeps happening. Anyone no why or how to fix? I just finished a comment but wanted to check something else and when I back buttoned back to lgf2 my comments were gone because of the refresh. That sucks!!!!

  91. justin case
    91 | June 20, 2009 11:42 am

    politics, politics, politics, bollitics.
    its saturday night, the bloody marys are slipping down a treat,
    talking heads, stop making sense dvd is on the home cinema, and i am buzzing,
    and this thread is so very very old, have all the admins gone on hols or what.
    i demand a saturday night drinking thread.

  92. 92 | June 20, 2009 11:42 am

    re: #86 by Ma Sands

    re: #87 by vagabond trader

    See, there was a time that the individual had their rights without having to fight tooth and nail for each one.

    That was the point of the Constitution…. to enumerate what the Federal Government could do, with specific notes that the rest was up to the states or to the individuals.

    Now the Federal Government is using smoke and misdirection to do whatever it wants without input from the citizens.

  93. jakee308
    93 | June 20, 2009 11:44 am

    re: #31 by newsjunkie_ky

    GRRRRR that g-d blessed page refresh!!1

    Anyway: Let’s just point the detainees to the east and tell them they’re free to go but they’ll have to walk home!

  94. vagabond trader
    94 | June 20, 2009 11:50 am

    re: #91 by justin case

    It is getting late, guess not everyone in admins. is a do nothing loser on the weekend.Its this or nothing.

  95. 95 | June 20, 2009 11:53 am

    re: #94 by vagabond trader

    Hey, I resemble that remark!

    Today is actually day 1 of my work week, but I came home sick. I made it to work, but was still too out of it to work.

  96. jakee308
    96 | June 20, 2009 11:55 am

    From on the fines levied for not answering the Census here.

  97. Ma Sands
    97 | June 20, 2009 11:55 am

    re: #92 by LanceKates

    Sure….it was written, sort of, in that part about “one world government”…..gettin’ close….

  98. justin case
    98 | June 20, 2009 11:55 am

    re: #94 by vagabond trader

    they have all gone out for the night, its only us sad losers that are still here. lol

  99. vagabond trader
    99 | June 20, 2009 11:56 am

    re: #95 by LanceKates

    Sorrrreeee!It was only a good natured jest. I think you and Sparky have da flu. My other half and I had it over the winter, high fever, cough, weakness, etc. Drink lots of non alcohol, rest up.

  100. 100 | June 20, 2009 11:58 am

    re: #96 by jakee308

    so it went from 1000 per question to 100 bucks total.


    How does any of that fit in with article 1 Section 2, where they’re only given power to calculate the number of people living in a home?

  101. justin case
    101 | June 20, 2009 11:59 am

    re: #93 by jakee308

    that page refresh is as annoying as shaking the drips off of your prick and getting a face full.

  102. 102 | June 20, 2009 12:03 pm

    re: #99 by vagabond trader

    That’s what I’ve been doing since LAST sunday. heh.

    I’m relaxing, kind of. I’m taking the time to make dinners for the rest of my work week so I don’t hae to cook when I get home. Nice steaks, soaked in worchester and bbq sauce (head country hickory), then broiled until medium/medium-rare. served with rice cooked with cream of mushroom soup.

  103. 103 | June 20, 2009 12:03 pm

    re: #101 by justin case

    what page refresh?

  104. justin case
    104 | June 20, 2009 12:06 pm

    re: #103 by LanceKates

    the one i just had when i replied to you.
    its sporadic.

  105. vagabond trader
    105 | June 20, 2009 12:06 pm

    re: #101 by justin case


  106. 106 | June 20, 2009 12:06 pm

    Don’t worry, m is making a post that should be done soon.

    so says the great and mighty Lance!

    *evil laugh*

  107. vagabond trader
    107 | June 20, 2009 12:09 pm

    Like I said, you stand up to these door knockers and they melt away. Every lousy leftist blog is yapping about Michelle Bachman being a *gasp* subversive lawbreaker and that she is going to be fined 5G plus a jail sentence. Dream on huffsters.

  108. jakee308
    108 | June 20, 2009 12:10 pm

    re: #100 by LanceKates

    Disclaimer: I am not nor ever have been a lawyer.

    That said, I believe that the constitution only provides that a census must be taken (mostly for the purposes of apportionment of Representatives) and that congress can make whatever laws they feel necessary to accomplish that goal.

    Me. (knock on wood) I’ve never received a census form and will not answer inappropriate questions. (how can they prove you’re lying) they only do a direct canvas for select neighborhoods and the detailed form for only a certain percentage (statistics doncha know).

  109. 109 | June 20, 2009 12:11 pm

    re: #107 by vagabond trader

    THe left used to celebrate soldiers who ‘fragged’ their officers….. the left used to say that dissent is patriotic.

    Now they gasp in fear at the sight of a conservative dissenting from THEIR rule.


  110. Ma Sands
    110 | June 20, 2009 12:13 pm

    re: #107 by vagabond trader

    (One “ L ” … few spell it that way; I think it’s so pretty…….fits her….. : )

  111. vagabond trader
    111 | June 20, 2009 12:13 pm

    re: #108 by jakee308

    Yeah, I can see how the number of flush toilets one has in ones home would be pertinent to the # of reps, given they are all turds.

  112. 112 | June 20, 2009 12:15 pm

    re: #108 by jakee308

    right, but the part of the constitution that says they have to count us is also limiting, since it says that they can enumerate, but doesn’t give them a right to ask about my income, what kind of home, what I think it is worth, whether I ‘ve been in the military and how I get to work (what means and how far)…..

    Since they are not specifically given the right to know that information, they have no right to ask for it.

    Any rights not specifically listed as given to the federal government do NOT belong to the federal government.

    There was a time that mattered. No longer.

    Believe it or not, there was a time that congress CONSIDERED the Constitution before making a law. Nowdays, the only one I KNOW that reads it before voting is Ron Paul. (And I am not a big fan of Ron Paul, specifically his desire to eliminate the CIA and end US involvement internationally on any level)

  113. jakee308
    113 | June 20, 2009 12:20 pm

    re: #104 by justin case

    I’ve noticed a pattern. It happens every 2nd time to “reply” to someone. same for clicking a link and then returning.


    click on reply; everything ok.
    click on reply again. go to comment box then page refresh happens and you get forced to the top of the page.

    click on link in comment, go to linked site or page and then when done use back button; everything ok

    click on link in comment, go to linked site or page and then when done use back button; return to site then page refresh and kicked to top of page.

    I have detailed this in email to admins but this is the second time so maybe they can’t find the problem.

    Not knowing the code, I can’t say for sure but it seems to me that a function is being called that contains a page refresh but then when that function returns someone has added a page refresh not realizing that the function just called contains a page refresh before returning. Got that?

    I’ve seen (and created) this problem myself when programming and using a “black box” (meaning you may or may not know the inner workings of the functions) library of functions. The description of the function in the docs may omit the reference to an action that you as the programmer may wish to occur after the function is finished and returns to the place in the code where you called it.

    anyone want to send me the docs for wordpress 2.8.1 and I’ll be glad to peruse the code looking for a redundant page refresh call.

  114. jakee308
    114 | June 20, 2009 12:25 pm

    re: #112 by LanceKates

    sorry, no the Constitution does not limit the type of questions.
    The Laws Congress have passed outlines the limits.

    Constitution of the United States
    Article 1, Section 2
    The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first
    Meeting of the Congress of the United States,
    and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

  115. justin case
    115 | June 20, 2009 12:26 pm

    re: #113 by jakee308

    well they could always call chas johnson the master programmer in to help them.
    maybe not.

  116. jakee308
    116 | June 20, 2009 12:28 pm

    re: #115 by justin case

    Ewww. Talk about the fox in the hen house.

  117. jakee308
    117 | June 20, 2009 12:29 pm

    re: #115 by justin case

    I thought Charles was a Master Baiter?

  118. justin case
    118 | June 20, 2009 12:32 pm

    re: #117 by jakee308

    he blows a mean pig.

  119. jakee308
    119 | June 20, 2009 12:34 pm

    re: #118 by justin case

    heh, that’s HORN not pig.

  120. jakee308
    120 | June 20, 2009 12:35 pm

    sooo, how ’bout those Mets?

  121. Ed Mahmoud
  122. 122 | June 20, 2009 12:49 pm

    re: #114 by jakee308

    Right, but in THAT section, the right to count the people of the united states is specifically listed in terms of how to keep track of the number of Representatives each state gets.

    Nowhere in there is there any implication or inference of keeping track of the economic or cultural aspects of the citizens, just the number.

    There is no specific right of the federal government to keep track of our economic or cultural aspects, nor our race.

    The only right granted in Article 1 Section 2 is to determine the number of people living in any home for the purpose of determining the number of Representatives.

    Per the 10th Amendment, the Federal Government doesn’t have a right to assume any other rights.

    I’m not a lawyer either, but I do read the Constitution and base alot of my personal stances for policy on what is found in it.

  123. jakee308
    123 | June 20, 2009 12:49 pm

    re: #121 by Ed Mahmoud

    Looks like the number of people in the street has dwindled. I’m guessing they’ve lost heart with no outside support.

    Thank you Barack for showing the world you are a feckless, festering, feculent, feeble-minded fool.

  124. jakee308
    124 | June 20, 2009 12:57 pm

    re: #122 by LanceKates

    Granted. But the laissez faire attitude for decades by the states and the people to the continued encroachment on their rights by the Congress has enured everyone such that our rights are becoming more difficult to reinstate due to acceptance of this encroachment by the courts or the state legislatures since these laws are now “commonly accepted practice” or else considered stare decisis. Also must be considered is that the State Reps/Govs have aspired to office in D.C. so they have had little incentive to “buck the trend” and many times the states have piggy-backed onto the Federal laws for their own purposes of state control.

  125. 125 | June 20, 2009 1:04 pm

    re: #124 by jakee308

    you and I are in 100% agreement.

    One of the things hat should disqualify someone from public office is wanting to be in public office.

  126. 126 | June 20, 2009 1:09 pm

    There was a quote attributed to Ben Franklin (though some say it is not from him but instead is from Richard Jackson) that says that those willing to sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.

    When the Patriot Act was being put in place, the Left loved to bring that quote up, suggesting that tapping the phone lines of international terrorists in other countries was bad.

    Now, in light of the Football Team’s worth of Czars and federal government’s (over)involvement in the financial, real estate, auto and healthcare industries, I wonder what the left has to say to that quote now.

    The left is demanding that we sacrifice our liberty for security.

  127. jakee308
    127 | June 20, 2009 1:10 pm

    re: #125 by LanceKates

    hah. but then we would be left with no one for office. Similar to what we have now; Those who we’d like to see in office are too smart and have too many other more lucrative options to want to seek office.

    Politics is diplomacy wrapped in appearances. It’s a popularity contest and as such one has to have a near indestructible ego to immerse oneself in such an atmosphere. since only those who are intelligent, charismatic and agreeable (both personality wise and in looks) make it to the upper levels then add to that an over-confident ego and you have; BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA.

    We just experienced what the worst our system of selection can produce. I have no solutions though for to attempt to correct it introduces even more problems.

  128. 128 | June 20, 2009 1:14 pm

    re: #127 by jakee308

    Need to get rid of those who want to be royalty. Need to get rid of those who want to line the pockets of their friends/family.

    Those two types are the ones that we need to NOT have in public office.

    Those two types are, unfortunately, the ones that generally end up IN public office.

  129. BBEV
    129 | June 20, 2009 1:23 pm

    I would like to know why Obama is not in Iraq right now sitting on the border of Iran and giving a speech about freedom and liberty and show solidarity for the people of Iran?

  130. 130 | June 20, 2009 1:26 pm

    re: #129 by BBEV

    How could he talk about freedom in Iran when he is removing it here?

  131. BBEV
    131 | June 20, 2009 1:28 pm

    re: #130 by LanceKates

    It was a rhetorical question, sorry I should have put a

    sarc/ tag on it

  132. 132 | June 20, 2009 1:28 pm

    I’m not happy that I”m having to burn more time off and lose more attendance points for being sick today (I’m still fine, I still lead my team for points), but I do have to say, discussing the Constitution and watching all of the Star Wars movies isn’t torture.

  133. BBEV
    133 | June 20, 2009 1:31 pm

    re: #132 by LanceKates

    I hope you start feeling better if not I’m sure I can find some fine left movies to get you back to work rather then to watch them

  134. 134 | June 20, 2009 1:34 pm

    re: #133 by BBEV

    heh. I should be fine to go back tomorrow.

    This was one hell of an illness. Haven’t been sick this long since 2003

  135. jakee308
    135 | June 20, 2009 1:36 pm

    re: #130 by LanceKates

    As with most collectivists he does not see individual liberty and freedom (of choice) to be the positive state that those of us who value these ideals do.

    To him he sees the negative side of freedom: the freedom to starve, to lose, to be in poverty, or to be obligated to serve. This is an affliction of leftist/liberals. They forever seek to establish a utopia that can never exist due to the intrinsic traits of human (and other lifeform’s) nature:

    Self-indulgent, self-centered, pain aversive, pleasure seeking. These are all basic sub-programs (if you will) that are running constantly in the back of our minds as we decide what actions to take from moment to moment.

    It matters not that NO COLLECTIVIST UTOPIA ever attempted STILL EXISTS if it ever existed except in the minds of the “true-believers”.

    Humans have different abililties and intelligence. Those attributes alone dictate that no utopian FREE society can exist. They all degenerate into some type of tyranny of the minority. The basis of the minority may vary but there will always be some type of group that manages to attain the controls and the first thing they do is abrogate the rights of others and allocate them to themselves: more control and more privileges.

    See G. orwell, Animal Farm.

  136. 136 | June 20, 2009 1:40 pm

    re: #135 by jakee308

    Utopia only lasts until those involved get bored or want something more.

    Normally a generation. SOMETIMES two.

    That’s what makes individual freedom so important.

  137. BBEV
    137 | June 20, 2009 1:50 pm

    re: #136 by LanceKates

    Didn’t the Pilgrims try the Utopia thing and found out real fast that it did not work?

  138. jakee308
    138 | June 20, 2009 1:54 pm

    re: #136 by LanceKates

    sadly, representative democracy is one type of government that also tends to degenerate into tyranny. At first it’s benign or as the result of an outside threat but as time goes on or the threat abates then the same result occurs; a minority of those who are able to manipulate the means ascension to power begin to acquire the rights to automatic ascension to that power and to gain more power while lessening the rights and freedom of those below them.

    This has been happening in this country for quite a while. Lately, though, the process has accelerated and only strong, purposeful pushback will fend off the encroachment. Unfocused protest marches will not suffice. Focused attention must be brought to bear and money and influence must acquired, otherwise it could degenerate into an armed confrontation which will only accelerate the chaos and thus more Statist control. (a barack hussein obama tendency)

    We have yet to produce a leader to lead the fight willing to do so. There are a few in the public eye now who could be the nucleus of a counteractive force but they have so far refused to allow themselves to be acknowledged as that leader. Which as we already discussed, makes them even more attractive. It may take an organized movement to draft these individuals but that path is fraught with as many obstacle as acquiring a leader.

    The current leadership of the Republicans are not up to the ability, savvy or even inclined to the same goals that most conservatives hold as being necessary to correct the direction of the country.

    Steele has endorsed DC voting rights! What an idiot! He is worse than having bho in office. This moron probably hasn’t thought our the fact that if DC gains voting rights then they will be represented by Democrats. I don’t think he cares. I think that Rep hq is infested with Dems who just wanted to get in the game but couldn’t do it in the Dem party. Steele, Powell and many others would fit better in the Dem party than they do with Rep conservatives.

    How to get rid of them?

  139. 139 | June 20, 2009 2:14 pm

    re: #138 by jakee308

    sadly, representative democracy is one type of government that also tends to degenerate into tyranny.

    Generally starts when the voting public finds out that they can vote themselves free money.

  140. BBEV
    140 | June 20, 2009 2:24 pm

    The problem is that there are people out there that think that the Republican party needs to be more “centrist”, (CJ) we lost the last two elections because of that. Many people that I talk with were so sick and tired of dealing with it that they either did not vote or voted for the Ron Paul, I held my nose and voted for McCain.

  141. Buffalobob
    141 | June 20, 2009 2:35 pm

    Obama is waiting for poll results from cbs, msnbc,nbc, cnn, and peoples mag. before making statement on Iran uprising.

  142. BBEV
    142 | June 20, 2009 2:39 pm

    re: #141 by Buffalobob

    Obama is waiting for poll results from cbs, msnbc,nbc, cnn, and peoples mag. before making statement on Iran uprising.

    The problem with that is that most people have there heads so far up there ass that they don’t have a clue what’s going on.

  143. jakee308
    143 | June 20, 2009 2:48 pm

    re: #141 by Buffalobob

    Obi should be known as “Weathervane” not TOTUS.

    Even Kerry was more steadfast than this guy.

  144. 144 | June 20, 2009 3:02 pm

    Amazing… another woman who likes the Three Stooges…

    You can select the video quality on the left side of the player.

  145. 145 | June 20, 2009 3:09 pm

    Where is Obama on Iran?

    Is this kinda like, “Where’s Waldo?”

  146. jakee308
    146 | June 20, 2009 3:13 pm

    re: #145 by Escovado

    more like a political weathervane.

    “you don’t need a weatherman to see which way the wind blows”

    Of course in obambi’s case he did have one.

  147. 147 | June 20, 2009 3:40 pm

    re: #140 by BBEV

    The solution will come from a new party. Just as the Republican Party and the Democrat Party were once ‘third’ parties, another new third party will come. A Conservative party.

    After all, no one votes Whig anymore.

  148. BBEV
    148 | June 20, 2009 4:55 pm

    re: #147 by LanceKates

    What is the Bull moose party dead?

  149. 149 | June 20, 2009 5:25 pm

    re: #148 by BBEV

    No idea, but I’m rooting for the Moose and Squirrel party.

  150. Speranza
    150 | June 20, 2009 5:27 pm

    re: #6 by vagabond trader

    Sully is a demented degenerate (and I am not writing that because he is gay, I could not care less about his sexuality, he’s mind is that of a political prostitute).

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