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Dick Morris- 2009 looks a lot like 1993

by Bob in Breckenridge ( 253 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Elections 2009, Elections 2010, Politics, Progressives at November 7th, 2009 - 1:40 pm

From dickmorris.com-

As Santayana said, “Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.” Congressional Democrats: Take note!

Are the elections of 2009 precursors of the same kind of massive partisan upheaval in Congress that we experienced in 1994? The historical data says yes, they are.

In Virginia, the outcomes in 1993 and 2009 were almost identical. In 1993, after the Democratic incumbent, Doug Wilder, could not seek reelection, the governor’s race pitted Republican George Allen against Democrat Mary Sue Terry. Allen won handily, 58-41 — virtually the same margin by which McDonnell defeated Deeds this week.

And in New Jersey, the parallels between 1993 and 2009 are equally striking. Democrat Jim Florio, then the governor, was seeking his second term against Republican Christie Todd Whitman. Just as in 2009 Chris Christie beat Jon Corzine, so in 1993 Whitman edged out Florio by 49-48. Chris Christie’s margin was bigger, but his vote share was almost identical to Whitman’s.

So if New Jersey and Virginia both behaved the same in 2009 as they did in 1993, will 2010 bring the same kind of sweeping Republican victory that 1994 did?

And will the Democratic defeats in these two states presage trouble for President Barack Obama’s healthcare proposals in Congress?

Will history repeat itself? It depends on the depth and half-life of Democratic arrogance. If Democratic incumbents from red states start to take account of their own self-interest, the political environment for healthcare legislation in the House and the Senate will change dramatically. Democrats like Sens. Byron Dorgan (N.D.), Kent Conrad (N.D.), Mark Pryor (Ark.), Blanche Lincoln (Ark.), Mary Landrieu (La.), Evan Bayh (Ind.), Kay Hagan (N.C.) and Ben Nelson (Neb.) will have to rethink their support for a bill that is dragging their party down.

It is clear that healthcare legislation and rising unemployment are exacting a toll on Democratic legislators and cost Corzine and perhaps Deeds the governor’s mansion.

Will Democrats get the message?

If Democratic congressmen and senators continue to believe that they can be saved by Obama or by massive campaign budgets, they have only to look to New Jersey to understand how little either factor counted. Corzine outspent Christie by three to one and Obama campaigned actively in the bluest of blue states for the Democratic governor.

Of course, the 1993-94 political calendar was a time of improving economic news. The recession had ended in 1992 and unemployment was dropping.

The budget deficit was declining. So the worsening job picture so far in 2009 and the dire warnings of a jobless recovery in 2010 make this cycle even more perilous for Democratic incumbents. The message is clear. The handwriting is on the wall. But can Democrats read it?

The recent indication that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) is considering a vote on healthcare reform this coming Saturday, blithely continuing as if the New Jersey and Virginia elections had not turned out the way they did, is evidence that she, at least, cannot read the writing on the wall.

For the House to pass Obama’s healthcare bill five days after so huge a repudiation of the Democratic Party and its program is breathtaking in its arrogance. Voters all over America will get the point: The congressional Democrats don’t give a damn what the voters think.
Read it here

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253 Responses to “Dick Morris- 2009 looks a lot like 1993”
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  1. Truck Monkey
    1 | November 7, 2009 1:47 pm

    I gotta agree with hooker toes here. I think that 2010 is going to knock the dummycraps out in both the house and the senate, thus saving the country.


  2. 2 | November 7, 2009 1:49 pm

    One area where I hope the 2009-1993 parallel is incorrect: I don’t know if we can take another 7 years of Obama.


  3. snork
    3 | November 7, 2009 1:49 pm

    Will Democrats get the message?

    The bigger question is, with the R’s get the message. Newt flubbed it last time. We don’t need a repeat of that.


  4. snork
    4 | November 7, 2009 1:54 pm

    Maybe 2009 is looking like 1993. But 2011 will look more like 1979.


  5. Lost
    5 | November 7, 2009 1:57 pm

    A lot is going to depend on the quality of the candidate who will oppose Obama. We need someone who can call the B****S and connect with the American people. A leader, with backbone and compassion.


  6. jakee308
    6 | November 7, 2009 1:58 pm

    @ Truck Monkey:
    Only if we can keep the Lindsay Graham/John McCain wing of the party from picking the candidates.

    @ snork:

    I really, really, really, really hope so.


  7. Truck Monkey
    7 | November 7, 2009 2:03 pm

    snork wrote:

    Maybe 2009 is looking like 1993. But 2011 will look more like 1979.

    I am going to have to agree with you here. The fundamentals of this economy are very weak. An activist, spend happy congress and president will make matters much worse. I hope, actually, that it is more like 1979 than 1933.


  8. jakee308
    8 | November 7, 2009 2:05 pm

    snork wrote:

    Will Democrats get the message?
    The bigger question is, with the R’s get the message. Newt flubbed it last time. We don’t need a repeat of that.

    Sadly, He didn’t flub anything.

    Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

    Matthew 7:16

    Fat Newt after promoting the Contract With America, abandoned it as soon as he became Speaker Of the House. His prominence as an ‘Eminence Gris’ in the Media and with some Republicans is based on the period of time PREVIOUS TO 1994. Just because he helped get a bunch of like minded Republicans to get elected. However he then WASTED THE OPPORTUNITY because

    1. He outperformed his competency
    2. He never intended to put in action any of the contract it was just a scheme to get elected.
    3. He was compromised by things in his past THAT WEREN’T REVEALED.

    He has spent the last 15 years trying to repeat that moment of glory and has failed.


  9. lobo91
    9 | November 7, 2009 2:06 pm

    @ Truck Monkey:

    I hope, actually, that it is more like 1979 than 1933.

    Without one of our embassies being captured, I hope…


  10. Truck Monkey
    10 | November 7, 2009 2:10 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Truck Monkey:
    I hope, actually, that it is more like 1979 than 1933.
    Without one of our embassies being captured, I hope…

    What country in their right mind would take on Oblahblah…. oh wait, be very afraid.


  11. chickadee
    11 | November 7, 2009 2:11 pm

    I like the part about how it has to be dawning on the Dems that Zero can’t help them.
    In fact he’s going to be a liability. Six campaign stops in Jersey and his name on the banners above Corzine didn’t work and his bizarre ads for Deeds in Va. gave McDonald a massive win.
    Zero’s toxicity level is going up daily.


  12. coldwarrior
    12 | November 7, 2009 2:14 pm

    pop-sickle toes is right on this

    (i pray)


  13. CloudyDay
    13 | November 7, 2009 2:14 pm

    OT/ For Iron Fist:
    I left you a post in this thread, #108. I found a news column by a pharmacist who mentioned using vitamin D to treat diabetes and pasted in her comments about it and a link to the full column.


  14. 14 | November 7, 2009 2:18 pm

    Truck Monkey #10 wrote:

    What country in their right mind would take on Oblahblah…. oh wait, be very afraid.

    They won’t attack the U.S. directly -- as a professional courtesy to a fellow traveler.


  15. BuddyG
    15 | November 7, 2009 2:19 pm

    Despite everything, I fear Congress will actually pass this 0bamacare legislation.

    Ugh…


  16. lobo91
    16 | November 7, 2009 2:22 pm

    @ BuddyG:

    I have no doubt that the House will pass that abomination today.

    The Senate won’t pass anything until the beginning of next year, though. And then, they’ll have to reconcile the two bills, and each house has to pass whatever results from that process.

    It’s going to be several months before any final legislation is up for a vote. There’s still plenty of time to stop it.


  17. 17 | November 7, 2009 2:23 pm

    CloudyDay wrote:

    OT/ For Iron Fist:
    I left you a post in this thread, #108. I found a news column by a pharmacist who mentioned using vitamin D to treat diabetes and pasted in her comments about it and a link to the full column.

    I saw your post and I’m passing it on to my wife who is diabetic. Thanks!


  18. vagabond trader
    18 | November 7, 2009 2:26 pm

    OT:

    More victimization.

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9BQUUI00&show_article=1&catnum=0


  19. 19 | November 7, 2009 2:30 pm

    @ CloudyDay:
    Thank you! I am newly-diagnosed, and I’ll give them a read…


  20. vagabond trader
    20 | November 7, 2009 2:48 pm

    We better pray this Obamanation does not pass or it will not matter who is in power.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/07/gregg-cbo-cost-estimate-of-pelosi-plan-3-trillion/


  21. coldwarrior
    21 | November 7, 2009 3:07 pm

    any word on a vote yet…


  22. CynicalConservative
    22 | November 7, 2009 3:09 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    Few more hours debate and ammendments + the rep. alternative.


  23. manforallseasons
    23 | November 7, 2009 3:09 pm

    Hello everyone. I posted this on the old thread, but see that the conversation has shifted to this new posting. Still I wanted to share this with you, so forgive me for the double post. If you haven’t seen this presentation from the TED talks, you should watch it. To me it helps to explain why libs react the way they do especially in a situation like the Ft. Hood attack. We’re all born with a five-channel morality and, over time, the relative importance of the channels change. Libs are dominated by a two channel morality -- all over the world. Compassion and fairness dominate their thinking. They feel the speak for the weak and oppressed. Fairness at all costs…

    http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html


  24. song_and_dance_man
    24 | November 7, 2009 3:24 pm

    And in other election news, let’s not forget to cast our votes for out blog at The 2009 Weblog Awards

    Here are the categories we are nominated in and the tally for us at the moment.

    Best Blog – 6 nominations – votes 130

    Best New Blog – 8 nominations – votes 177

    Best New Political Blog – 4 nominations – votes 64

    Best Online Community – 6 nominations – votes 98

    Best Conservative Blog – 9 nominations – votes 233

    Best Political Blog – 1 nomination – votes 12

    And, BTW, we are well ahead of the other nominations in every category. Go and plus ding/vote every nomination in every category.

    Oh, and good afternoon.


  25. rain of lead
    25 | November 7, 2009 3:26 pm

    things that make you go hmmm…
    From the start of his campaign on August 10 until an election eve debate on October 30, Owens adamantly opposed the type of public option that is contained in HR 3962, the Pelosi bill the House is voting on later today.

    Owens announced qualified support for the “current bill” in an October 30 debate less than 84 hours before the polls opened. His statement of support was lost in the ensuing melodrama when Republican Dede Scozzafava withdrew from the race the next day, and then switched allegiances and endorsed him rather than the Conservative Doug Hoffman.

    In his statement today lauding Owens, President Obama unwittingly confirmed what had been reported here earlier today–that the voters of the 23rd Congressional District had been misled throughout the campaign by Bill Owens that he opposed the Pelosi public option Health Care bill, and that, had Mr. Owens’ been honest with the voters throughout the entire campaign he would not have won the special election.


  26. rain of lead
    26 | November 7, 2009 3:27 pm

    what if the bill passes 218-217 and owens is the one to cast the passing vote


  27. bellamags
    27 | November 7, 2009 3:29 pm

    If this thing passes, how and will we ever un-do it?


  28. song_and_dance_man
    28 | November 7, 2009 3:31 pm

    We can pull this out big time in 2010 if the Conservatives in Congress quit playing ‘me too’ politics and advance a truly conservative platform that appeals to the base ala The Contract with America.


  29. lobo91
    29 | November 7, 2009 3:32 pm

    The plot thickens:

    Hasan, the sole suspect in the massacre of 13 fellow US soldiers in Texas, attended the controversial Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Great Falls, Virginia, in 2001 at the same time as two of the September 11 terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt. His mother’s funeral was held there in May that year.

    The preacher at the time was Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born Yemeni scholar who was banned from addressing a meeting in London by video link in August because he is accused of supporting attacks on British troops and backing terrorist organisations.

    Hasan’s eyes “lit up” when he mentioned his deep respect for al-Awlaki’s teachings, according to a fellow Muslim officer at the Fort Hood base in Texas, the scene of Thursday’s horrific shooting spree.

    But remember, we shouldn’t jump to any conclusions as to his motives…


  30. krik_t_semaj
    30 | November 7, 2009 3:34 pm

    @ Truck Monkey:

    Hookertwos, I will agree that
    theblogmocracy is a much better name than lgf2.


  31. song_and_dance_man
    31 | November 7, 2009 3:35 pm

    @ lobo91:

    That may become a huge story that will, for now, be ignored by the MSM.


  32. bellamags
    32 | November 7, 2009 3:36 pm

    @ lobo91:

    woah…


  33. vagabond trader
    33 | November 7, 2009 3:37 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Most interesting, good find. It seems the Brits are doing yeomans work on this story. I doubt we’ll get much from official sources here in the US.

    btw, Pelousy is doing a mini eulogy for Ted Kennedy. Blecch, have they no shame.


  34. mfhorn
    34 | November 7, 2009 3:38 pm

    I hope we see the kind of change we saw when Reagan ran against Carter. Obama certainly reminds me of JimmyC, just not as competent.

    Unfortunately, the Republicans have moved to the left over the years, and I don’t see a Reagan-like candidate in the wings. There are things I like about Palin, but I don’t know that she could win. I’d love to see her in Congress for a few years first.


  35. vagabond trader
    35 | November 7, 2009 3:40 pm

    @ mfhorn:

    I like Michelle Bachmann. Gutsy lady standing up to Pelousy and The Obama machine.


  36. vagabond trader
    36 | November 7, 2009 3:41 pm

    @ bellamags:

    Cute pup.

    :-)


  37. bellamags
    37 | November 7, 2009 3:42 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    That’s the real Bella


  38. vagabond trader
    38 | November 7, 2009 3:42 pm

    @ bellamags:

    Awwww.


  39. rain of lead
    39 | November 7, 2009 3:43 pm

    if the house bill passes tonight,and the senate uses the nuclear option(and we know they will) to pass in the senate and then repubs
    get shut out of conference committee, then bastard bill goes to obama
    to be signed—in 2010 how many dem reps and senators will be needed
    to be replaced so that this health-care thing can be veto-proof repealed?

    and is it possable that many seats can turn over?


  40. Speranza
    40 | November 7, 2009 3:44 pm

    For those of you who sat on your principles and did not vote against Obama -- I hope you’re happy.


  41. vagabond trader
    41 | November 7, 2009 3:44 pm

    It is really difficult for me to look at Dick Morris and not see a chubby middle aged man crawling around the floor wearing a dog collar and possibly barking.


  42. Speranza
    42 | November 7, 2009 3:45 pm

    @ rain of lead:
    I’m afraid that he Republicans are too far behind in numbers -- too many seats need to be recaptured.


  43. Speranza
    43 | November 7, 2009 3:46 pm

    @ vagabond trader:
    You know what- ok the guy was with a hooker -- not the first or last guy to do so -- his analysis though is usually spot on and his books are quite good as well.


  44. vagabond trader
    44 | November 7, 2009 3:46 pm

    Too many Rs are also compromised as in NOT fiscally conservative and desirous of being “liked” by their adversaries.


  45. Speranza
    45 | November 7, 2009 3:47 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ mfhorn:
    I like Michelle Bachmann. Gutsy lady standing up to Pelousy and The Obama machine.

    also she is desspised by Chaz and Olbermann -- another feather in her hat.


  46. rain of lead
    46 | November 7, 2009 3:47 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    @ rain of lead:
    I’m afraid that he Republicans are too far behind in numbers – too many seats need to be recaptured.

    so our only hope is that after this pos becomes law…the supreme
    court MIGHT overturn it………… we are so fucked


  47. bellamags
    47 | November 7, 2009 3:48 pm

    rain of lead wrote:

    if the house bill passes tonight,and the senate uses the nuclear option(and we know they will) to pass in the senate and then repubs
    get shut out of conference committee, then bastard bill goes to obama
    to be signed—in 2010 how many dem reps and senators will be needed
    to be replaced so that this health-care thing can be veto-proof repealed?
    and is it possable that many seats can turn over?

    Also, I wonder what the psychological ramifications will be if it passes? Will there be panic? Will people stop spending money for a while or will there be a false sense of security within the masses which will make them feel at ease about spending money — “I’m not going to have to pay for health care so I can spend all my cash” ?? Will it matter at all? The economic climate is so fragile right now, any shaking and it will crumble.


  48. song_and_dance_man
    48 | November 7, 2009 3:48 pm

    @ Speranza:

    I’ve been a fan of Morris since he outed the Clintons and in spite of the Eddie Murphy like revelations of promiscuity.


  49. krik_t_semaj
    49 | November 7, 2009 3:49 pm

    VagTrad said:
    It is really difficult for me to look at Dick Morris and not see a chubby middle aged man crawling around the floor wearing a dog collar and possibly barking.
    --
    Who do you see not having fleas?


  50. Speranza
    50 | November 7, 2009 3:49 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    Too many Rs are also compromised as in NOT fiscally conservative and desirous of being “liked” by their adversaries.

    They go into Washington D.C (think the Gingrich congress of 1994) all set on reforming things and then eventually succumb to the lures of “Potomac Fever” which means big spending, making nice to Democrats, vying for choice invitations to the best Georgetown parties. I hate them and I hate that loser Gingrich who should drown himself.


  51. bellamags
    51 | November 7, 2009 3:50 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    It is really difficult for me to look at Dick Morris and not see a chubby middle aged man crawling around the floor wearing a dog collar and possibly barking.

    eww


  52. rain of lead
    52 | November 7, 2009 3:50 pm

    why am I getting the feeling that the 2012 end of the world thing
    is looking more and more real?

    :(


  53. Speranza
    53 | November 7, 2009 3:51 pm

    song_and_dance_man wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I’ve been a fan of Morris since he outed the Clintons and in spite of the Eddie Murphy like revelations of promiscuity.

    His shenannigans with the hooker should be between him and his wife. He is a good political adviser and his books are quite good.


  54. vagabond trader
    54 | November 7, 2009 3:51 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Yuh,its a female thing,I value loyalty in men.He also predicted a McCain win last year and I believed him. Other than that his analysis is intelligent.


  55. mfhorn
    55 | November 7, 2009 3:51 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    Could it be repealed though? Politically I mean. The Republicans are already being attacked as just telling people to go off & die. Would the party have the stones to repeal legislation that hasn’t, in just the first couple years, started to blow the budget apart, hasn’t started forcing people into government run care, hasn’t started fining huge numbers of people and hasn’t started denying the ‘free’ care we were all supposed to get once the evil insurance companies were destroyed?

    Could we win a court battle? Historically, I’d say we’d lose. The Supreme Court has already shredded the 1st Amendment with McCain-Feingold and the 5th with the Kelo ruling. What grounds could this be successfully fought under?

    This has to be stopped NOW!


  56. krik_t_semaj
    56 | November 7, 2009 3:51 pm

    @ Speranza:
    Speranza said:
    (think the Gingrich congress of 1994)
    ———-

    What other options or ‘home runs’ can you suggest we emulate?


  57. krik_t_semaj
    57 | November 7, 2009 3:53 pm

    I expect to hear Gingrich apologize for his mess up re: NY-23.


  58. Speranza
    58 | November 7, 2009 3:53 pm

    rain of lead wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    @ rain of lead:
    I’m afraid that he Republicans are too far behind in numbers – too many seats need to be recaptured.
    so our only hope is that after this pos becomes law…the supreme
    court MIGHT overturn it………… we are so fucked

    We are fucked -- face it. Thank you assholes who bought into the hopenchange crap. Obama wants to have as many people as possible dependent on the government with a vested interest in this. This coutnry will be unrecognizable in 4 years.


  59. mfhorn
    59 | November 7, 2009 3:54 pm

    rain of lead wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    @ rain of lead:
    I’m afraid that he Republicans are too far behind in numbers – too many seats need to be recaptured.
    so our only hope is that after this pos becomes law…the supreme
    court MIGHT overturn it………… we are so fucked

    I got a personalized tag on my car with the acronym ‘WASVS’ We Are So Very Screwed’.


  60. Speranza
    60 | November 7, 2009 3:54 pm

    krik_t_semaj wrote:

    I expect to hear Gingrich apologize for his mess up re: NY-23.

    Don’t hold your breath. Fat ass thinks he is an intellectual -- more like a pseudo intellectual and they never admit that they are wrong.


  61. manforallseasons
    61 | November 7, 2009 3:55 pm

    @ krik_t_semaj:

    He did.


  62. Speranza
    62 | November 7, 2009 3:56 pm

    krik_t_semaj wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Speranza said:
    (think the Gingrich congress of 1994)
    ———-
    What other options or ‘home runs’ can you suggest we emulate?

    I have no answers. Too many Republicans are full of shit so when they get elected they become Dem Lite.


  63. krik_t_semaj
    63 | November 7, 2009 3:56 pm

    Lead_rain said:
    why am I getting the feeling that the 2012 end of the world thing
    is looking more and more real?
    —-

    The ‘job’ description is to assume the worse and plod on. Everyone else who assumed the end was, was wrong.


  64. mfhorn
    64 | November 7, 2009 3:56 pm

    Speranza Obama wants to have as many people as possible dependent on the government with a vested interest in this. This coutnry will be unrecognizable in 4 years.

    You hit the nail on the head. Obama and the entire left wing of the Dem. party want everyone looking to them for their sustenance. Dems are hurt when people are able to rely on themselves, rather than the government.


  65. bellamags
    65 | November 7, 2009 3:56 pm

    Someone just posted this on FB.

    Glen Nye (VA-2) has received so many calls he is now Voting NO Calling all Virginian’s CALL RICK BOUCHER’S Office NOW (VA-9) He is undecided!!! (202)-225-3861 I just got off the phone with his aide.


  66. krik_t_semaj
    66 | November 7, 2009 3:56 pm

    @ Speranza:
    What little I know of the Dem in NY-23 is good.


  67. vagabond trader
    67 | November 7, 2009 3:56 pm

    @ Speranza:

    It isn’t over yet, has to go to the senate. If it passes there expect an immediate class action lawsuit.Could drag on for years.


  68. bellamags
    68 | November 7, 2009 3:57 pm

    mfhorn wrote:

    You hit the nail on the head. Obama and the entire left wing of the Dem. party want everyone looking to them for their sustenance. Dems Socialists are hurt when people are able to rely on themselves, rather than the government.

    FIFY


  69. chickadee
    69 | November 7, 2009 3:58 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    It is really difficult for me to look at Dick Morris and not see a chubby middle aged man crawling around the floor wearing a dog collar and possibly barking.

    OMG LOL


  70. Speranza
    70 | November 7, 2009 3:58 pm

    mfhorn wrote:

    You hit the nail on the head. Obama and the entire left wing of the Dem. party want everyone looking to them for their sustenance. Dems are hurt when people are able to rely on themselves, rather than the government.

    That’s why New Jersey is such a Democratic state (usually) -- so many people are union members or are dependent on the government. In a way it is a brilliant (albeit diabolical) plan.


  71. Speranza
    71 | November 7, 2009 3:59 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    It isn’t over yet, has to go to the senate. If it passes there expect an immediate class action lawsuit.Could drag on for years.

    Let’s hope so. I also hoep that moderate Dems can see the public handwriting on the wall.


  72. vagabond trader
    72 | November 7, 2009 4:00 pm

    @ chickadee:

    Now that is the reaction I looking for! Just trying for a cheap laugh in a rather depressed room.

    :grin:


  73. bellamags
    73 | November 7, 2009 4:00 pm

    I think Pelosi said she’s hit 218


  74. rain of lead
    74 | November 7, 2009 4:01 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    It isn’t over yet, has to go to the senate. If it passes there expect an immediate class action lawsuit.Could drag on for years.

    who, what, when, where?
    how would the lawsuit thing work?


  75. Overlook
    75 | November 7, 2009 4:01 pm

    @ manforallseasons:

    Glad you posted this.
    Interesting to see a liberal try to get out of the moral matrix he has invented.
    “Fairness” as a substitute for “justice” demonstrates just how far the moral question has been begged. To the liberal fairness is linked with equality. To the conservative equality is injustice.
    I fear that the whole presentation, the whole effort is semantic confusion robed as science.


  76. wolfie
    76 | November 7, 2009 4:02 pm

    @ Speranza:

    In fairness to Newt, he was the key engineer who brought us a GOP House in 1994, the first one in 40 years. For a couple of years the GOP governed very well, too.
    I will also say in his defense that he admitted he was wrong about NY-23, and he admitted this after the election. He fully blamed Hoffman’s loss on GOP leaders like himself.

    His faults are too well known and plentiful to rehearse here, but I don’t think it’s fair to paint him all black.

    (OMG. Was that raaaaaaaacist?)


  77. vagabond trader
    77 | November 7, 2009 4:02 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Cannot even bother with my cong-ass Joe Courtney,the guy who proclaimed those in DC “rule” us.


  78. mfhorn
    78 | November 7, 2009 4:02 pm

    @ bellamags:

    Not much of a difference between Dems & Socialists any more, is there?


  79. krik_t_semaj
    79 | November 7, 2009 4:02 pm

    @ Speranza:
    Speranza said:
    Too many Republicans are full of shit so when they get elected they become Dem Lite.
    —-
    Is still admire W as the best democrat President of the past 12 years. Obama makes Dem-lite seem radically right wing, thus the dilemma.

    I’ve read that the two party system, as pathetic as it seems, keeps the radical extremists out of power.

    I hope Obama is a fluke. We have no Green party here for example. Would 12 random parties be better? I don’t know. Don’t take my comment the wrong way.


  80. vagabond trader
    80 | November 7, 2009 4:03 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    It would probably be on Constitutional grounds. You know that document Pelousy wipes her wrinkled old butt with.


  81. bellamags
    81 | November 7, 2009 4:04 pm

    mfhorn wrote:

    @ bellamags:
    Not much of a difference between Dems & Socialists any more, is there?

    http://www.socialistanddemocrats.eu/gpes/index.jsp

    This will make you want to hurl.


  82. Speranza
    82 | November 7, 2009 4:05 pm

    @ Overlook:
    You are right although he does piss me off.


  83. chickadee
    83 | November 7, 2009 4:05 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ chickadee:

    Now that is the reaction I looking for! Just trying for a cheap laugh in a rather depressed room.

    Fortunately I can always laugh :D even when I’m depressed and I an anxious and depressed. :(


  84. tuffy
    84 | November 7, 2009 4:06 pm

    How do we email a request for a thread topic? I think this is SUPER important and very telling…. The Bush’s visit the victims of the Fort Hood Massacre (and didn’t want photo-ops) while Obama is MIA.


  85. mfhorn
    85 | November 7, 2009 4:07 pm

    @ krik_t_semaj:

    How about just picking 537 names at random from across the country?


  86. vagabond trader
    86 | November 7, 2009 4:08 pm

    @ chickadee:

    Same here, good thing the liquor cabinet is bare, I’d have a wicked headache tomorrow.


  87. wolfie
    87 | November 7, 2009 4:08 pm

    krik_t_semaj wrote:

    I expect to hear Gingrich apologize for his mess up re: NY-23.

    Actually, he did. I’m too lazy to look it up, but it was probably at HotAir.


  88. Speranza
    88 | November 7, 2009 4:08 pm

    @ krik_t_semaj:
    You know from 1940 -- 1968 the Dems and re3pubs were both patriotic to the point where if your candidate did not win, you did not dread the other side (Kennedy-Nixon, Dewey-Truman, Nixon-Humphrey, FDR-Wilkie, etc).


  89. krik_t_semaj
    89 | November 7, 2009 4:08 pm

    Look back and ask honestly if it was stupid to 1. vote W instead of Gore in 2000. 2. Stupid to vote W instead of Kerry in 2004. 3. Stupid to vote McCain over Obama 2008? However pathetic the GOP candidate was must be compared to the other choice. How did we get McCain?


  90. mawskrat
    90 | November 7, 2009 4:09 pm

    ROLL TIDE


  91. krik_t_semaj
    91 | November 7, 2009 4:09 pm

    @ Speranza:

    I know. JFK, if he could, would spit on Obama.


  92. lobo91
    92 | November 7, 2009 4:09 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    The problem would be finding someone with standing to sue.

    Individual taxpayers don’t have standing to sue on Constitutional grounds.

    An insurance company might, if they could show that the legislation would financially harm their business.

    It’s not as simple as it seems.


  93. coldwarrior
    93 | November 7, 2009 4:10 pm

    i refuse to watch c-span to follow this.

    i would rather not watch the congresscriters and
    entertain thoughts of revolution.

    so, i’ll watch football and work on the honey do list and read this blog.


  94. krik_t_semaj
    94 | November 7, 2009 4:11 pm

    @ mfhorn:

    Fly-oveur or big city?


  95. Speranza
    95 | November 7, 2009 4:11 pm

    krik_t_semaj wrote:

    Look back and ask honestly if it was stupid to 1. vote W instead of Gore in 2000. 2. Stupid to vote W instead of Kerry in 2004. 3. Stupid to vote McCain over Obama 2008? However pathetic the GOP candidate was must be compared to the other choice. How did we get McCain?

    Because the Stupid Party (The GOP) is addicted to the idea of “next in line” for the nomination. That is why even though more Americans identify themselves as conservatives, liberals run the White House, the Senate, and the House.


  96. tuffy
    96 | November 7, 2009 4:12 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    Michele Bachman just talked and people clapped after she finished.

    Do you know how I email the blog administrators here?


  97. wolfie
    97 | November 7, 2009 4:12 pm

    @ bellamags:

    Wow. Porky Boucher is undecided? That guy always votes left.
    His district is more red than blue, so he campaigns center-right. Then he goes to DC and votes the leftwing line. But they just elect him again and again and again.
    I’d love to see him go down the memory hole.


  98. mfhorn
    98 | November 7, 2009 4:12 pm

    @ Overlook:

    Equality of STANDARD or OPPORTUNITY is fine. The left looks for equality of outcome. They don’t want to admit that we’re all different. Each of us has different abilities, skills, interests, passions, and ‘drive’.


  99. manforallseasons
    99 | November 7, 2009 4:12 pm

    @ Overlook:

    Good point. The audience was overwhelmingly liberal. I think he did a great job of putting the “moral elite” in their place without getting kicked out of the conference.


  100. chickadee
    100 | November 7, 2009 4:12 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ rain of lead:

    It would probably be on Constitutional grounds. You know that document Pelousy wipes her wrinkled old butt with.

    OMG LOL,
    damn you’re really on tonight girlfriend.
    :D
    now I’m getting giddy. . . . . at a time like this when I could go to a gulag for 15 years for not buying health insurance. . . . ha ha ha and be fined thousands of dollars.


  101. Speranza
    101 | November 7, 2009 4:13 pm

    Hey we had Richard Nixon, Jerry Ford, George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, George W. Bush, John McCain -- not a single one of those flatulent guys was or is a conservative.


  102. vagabond trader
    102 | November 7, 2009 4:13 pm

    @ lobo91:

    There are a couple of well known conservative law foundations, the names escape me. I believe one has already laid out a preliminary case.


  103. mfhorn
    103 | November 7, 2009 4:13 pm

    @ krik_t_semaj:

    State by state basis?


  104. Overlook
    104 | November 7, 2009 4:13 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Professional “ethicists” are invariably consequentialists. Consequentialism underlies socialism.
    There are probably departments of “morality studies” in universities now. Whence are recruited community organisers and democrat functionaries.


  105. Speranza
    105 | November 7, 2009 4:14 pm

    tuffy wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Michele Bachman just talked and people clapped after she finished.
    Do you know how I email the blog administrators here?

    blogmocracy@gmail.com


  106. mfhorn
    106 | November 7, 2009 4:14 pm

    @ krik_t_semaj:

    JFK would be a moderately conservative Republican in today’s environment.


  107. tuffy
    107 | November 7, 2009 4:14 pm

    @ Speranza:
    Thank you! :)


  108. vagabond trader
    108 | November 7, 2009 4:16 pm

    Legal questions re: forced purchase of healthcare.

    http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/obama_health_constitution/2009/10/18/273679.html


  109. lobo91
    109 | November 7, 2009 4:17 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    They still need a plaintiff with standing, or the case will be dismissed.

    That’s why the DC gun ban law took so long to be overturned. Everyone “knew” it was un-Constitutional, but until Dick Heller actually went to the trouble of trying to register a handgun in DC, being rejected, going through all the administrative hoops, and then filing suit, there was nobody who had standing.


  110. chickadee
    110 | November 7, 2009 4:17 pm

    Pelosi is a fcking monster.


  111. rain of lead
    111 | November 7, 2009 4:17 pm

    Ouch… Rep. Mark Souder Busts Pelosi After Her Sappy Teddycare Speech on House Floor (Video

    http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2009/11/too-funny-rep-mark-souder-busts-pelosi-after-her-sappy-teddycare-speech-on-house-floor-video/


  112. Speranza
    112 | November 7, 2009 4:18 pm

    @ chickadee:
    She is also a blithering idiot.


  113. Overlook
    113 | November 7, 2009 4:19 pm

    @ mfhorn:

    Exactly. Equality of outcome demands unjust coercion. Notice how group “sacrifice” improved with coercion?


  114. vagabond trader
    114 | November 7, 2009 4:19 pm

    @ chickadee:

    I could have been really crude.

    :twisted:


  115. lobo91
    115 | November 7, 2009 4:19 pm

    @ krik_t_semaj:

    What little I know of the Dem in NY-23 is good.

    Owens has already gone back on his campaign promise to vote against Obamacare.

    What else do you need to know about him?


  116. song_and_dance_man
    116 | November 7, 2009 4:20 pm

    If the bill passes both House and Senate will B. Hussein fall on the sword by signing it, knowing it will ruin his chance for a second term?

    There will be a huge outcry against the Socialists and they will go down in flames, but still the bill will have become law. The Progressives are so desperate to nationalize and socialize as much as they can while in power it may be they will consider this chance too important and a culmination of their life long efforts and take that over re-election and loss of power in the immediate future.

    Like so many have voiced, at the moment we are sooo screwed. I never thought I would live to see the day where America would go down the tubes.


  117. krik_t_semaj
    117 | November 7, 2009 4:21 pm

    MFHorn said:
    JFK would be a moderately conservative Republican in today’s environment.
    —-
    Exactly. I know.


  118. song_and_dance_man
    118 | November 7, 2009 4:21 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ rain of lead:
    It would probably be on Constitutional grounds. You know that document Pelousy wipes her wrinkled old butt with.

    She may have gotten a butt lift- I don’t think Botox works on asses.


  119. vagabond trader
    119 | November 7, 2009 4:22 pm

    @ lobo91:

    We the People.20 firefighters in New haven CT took on the government and won.It would have to be done before the commie in chief coerces a couple of teetering Supremes into retirement tho.G-d only knows what he’ll be replacing them with.


  120. song_and_dance_man
    120 | November 7, 2009 4:23 pm

    chickadee wrote:

    Pelosi is a fcking monster.

    I used to lovingly call her a Ring Wraith at 1.0.


  121. chickadee
    121 | November 7, 2009 4:24 pm

    song_and_dance_man wrote:

    chickadee wrote:

    Pelosi is a fcking monster.

    I used to lovingly call her a Ring Wraith at 1.0.

    Perfect


  122. vagabond trader
    122 | November 7, 2009 4:24 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    Heard that and contemplated shooting the tv but hubby might notice his 56 inch screen was missing when he gets home.


  123. wolfie
    123 | November 7, 2009 4:24 pm

    I have never understood why equality of condition is thought to be so desirable in the first place.
    No one wants starvation, grueling poverty, or squalor for anybody, but past that, who the hell cares?


  124. krik_t_semaj
    124 | November 7, 2009 4:24 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Owens has already gone back on his campaign promise to vote against Obamacare.

    What else do you need to know about him?
    ——
    I read he was an Air Force Vet. Is that not a plus?


  125. rain of lead
    125 | November 7, 2009 4:25 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ rain of lead:
    Heard that and contemplated shooting the tv but hubby might notice his 56 inch screen was missing when he gets home.

    hahahahahahaha


  126. Overlook
    126 | November 7, 2009 4:25 pm

    @ manforallseasons:

    He is himself liberal. And the borrowing from Eastern philosophy of Yin/Yang is unnecessary. (He does it show off his “openness to the other”). It is simply a restatement of dualism -- that has had a through working over in Western religion and philosophy. The good/evil Manichean view is also a balance (not a battle, as he claims) which is why it was heretical to monotheism which established a “good” God.


  127. vagabond trader
    127 | November 7, 2009 4:25 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    Didn’t work on her mug either and to be honest you’d probably not notice much diff between that and her posterior.


  128. mfhorn
    128 | November 7, 2009 4:25 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    Brilliant!


  129. 129 | November 7, 2009 4:26 pm

    Just back from being gone all day. Flipped on C-SPAN and saw John Boehner ask (what he said was) a third committee chair if he could guarantee should the Stupak amendment passed in the house, could he guarantee that it would also pass in committee. Answer? NO.

    Does anyone know when the Stupak amendment is up for a vote?


  130. rain of lead
    130 | November 7, 2009 4:26 pm

    krik_t_semaj wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    Owens has already gone back on his campaign promise to vote against Obamacare.
    What else do you need to know about him?
    ——
    I read he was an Air Force Vet. Is that not a plus?

    I thank him for his service but……NO, what have you done lately?


  131. lobo91
    131 | November 7, 2009 4:28 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    We the People.20 firefighters in New haven CT took on the government and won.

    Umm…you probably don’t realize it, but you just made my point for me.

    Those firefighters were plaintiffs who had actually been harmed by the actions of the city they work for. That’s why they had standing to sue.

    In order for some ordinary citizen to be able to sue over the healthcare bill, it would first have to go into effect, and then, that person would have to be able to show that they, personally, had been harmed as a result.


  132. 132 | November 7, 2009 4:28 pm

    krik_t_semaj wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    Owens has already gone back on his campaign promise to vote against Obamacare.
    What else do you need to know about him?
    ——
    I read he was an Air Force Vet. Is that not a plus?

    McCain is a war hero, but he supported shamnesty, voted for TARP and ran an abysmal campaign.

    I can separate the two.


  133. song_and_dance_man
    133 | November 7, 2009 4:29 pm

    wolfie wrote:

    I have never understood why equality of condition is thought to be so desirable in the first place.
    No one wants starvation, grueling poverty, or squalor for anybody, but past that, who the hell cares?

    The Progressives care for all the wrong reasons. They claim to believe in equality, but as you pointed out, what about the poor. Their idea is to take from the successful and give to the poor and in so doing the rich are brought low and the poor are brought up and somewhere in the middle they reach a balance in their absurd idea of utopia and equality for all. It’s all bullshit. What they really desire is power to control all levels of society.


  134. 134 | November 7, 2009 4:30 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ vagabond trader:
    We the People.20 firefighters in New haven CT took on the government and won.
    Umm…you probably don’t realize it, but you just made my point for me.
    Those firefighters were plaintiffs who had actually been harmed by the actions of the city they work for. That’s why they had standing to sue.
    In order for some ordinary citizen to be able to sue over the healthcare bill, it would first have to go into effect, and then, that person would have to be able to show that they, personally, had been harmed as a result.

    The minute that my health care records are viewed by someone without my consent it is a violation of HIPAA.

    I’ll file my own lawsuit pro se (with a little help from my bro)


  135. lobo91
    135 | November 7, 2009 4:30 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    Exactly.

    Al Gore served in Vietnam (okay, he wrote an Engineer Brigade’s unit newsletter while he was in Vietnam), but he’s still a POS.


  136. 136 | November 7, 2009 4:31 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    ‘zactly.


  137. song_and_dance_man
    137 | November 7, 2009 4:31 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ song_and_dance_man:
    Didn’t work on her mug either and to be honest you’d probably not notice much diff between that and her posterior.

    But there is a difference. Her head has two eyes and the tail has one. I wonder of the back one blinks too?


  138. vagabond trader
    138 | November 7, 2009 4:32 pm

    @ loppyd:

    Don’t know and to be honest I do not want this thing with or without an abortion proviso. This takeover of healthcare is unConstitutional period.Thwarting publicly funded abortion is not going to make this pos palatable but the Rs appear to be taking the bait.


  139. lobo91
    139 | November 7, 2009 4:33 pm

    @ loppyd:

    The minute that my health care records are viewed by someone without my consent it is a violation of HIPAA.

    And how will you know (or be able to prove) that’s happened?


  140. mfhorn
    140 | November 7, 2009 4:34 pm

    krik_t_semaj wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    Owens has already gone back on his campaign promise to vote against Obamacare.
    What else do you need to know about him?
    ——
    I read he was an Air Force Vet. Is that not a plus?

    I’m not going to support him just because he was a veteran.

    So was John Kerry. He served in Vietnam you know.


  141. lobo91
    141 | November 7, 2009 4:36 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    I don’t disagree with you on that. There’s clearly nothing in the Constitution that permits the government to take over the health care industry.

    Knowing that and getting the courts to stop it are not the same thing, however.


  142. song_and_dance_man
    142 | November 7, 2009 4:36 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ rain of lead:
    Exactly.
    Al Gore served in Vietnam (okay, he wrote an Engineer Brigade’s unit newsletter while he was in Vietnam), but he’s still a POS.

    And let’s not forget another idiot who served in Nam. Kerry.


  143. vagabond trader
    143 | November 7, 2009 4:37 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Read the link in #109. There are qualified legal minds at work already. Constitutional scholars, real ones, not fakers like Hussein. This will not stand,but I am not throwing in the towel just yet.


  144. lobo91
    144 | November 7, 2009 4:38 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    So did John McCain. He even got a Medal of Honor.

    Doesn’t mean he’s a good Republican Senator, though.


  145. tuffy
    145 | November 7, 2009 4:38 pm

    @ loppyd:
    Tonight, I think? (watching it too)


  146. 146 | November 7, 2009 4:38 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    Don’t know and to be honest I do not want this thing with or without an abortion proviso. This takeover of healthcare is unConstitutional period.Thwarting publicly funded abortion is not going to make this pos palatable but the Rs appear to be taking the bait.

    Oh, I don’t want it any way shape or form either, but this amendment may be our last hope to kill the bill.

    Someone at Ace just posted that the NO votes for Dems just climbed to 34.


  147. rain of lead
    147 | November 7, 2009 4:39 pm

    mfhorn wrote:

    krik_t_semaj wrote:
    @ lobo91:
    Owens has already gone back on his campaign promise to vote against Obamacare.
    What else do you need to know about him?
    ——
    I read he was an Air Force Vet. Is that not a plus?
    I’m not going to support him just because he was a veteran.
    So was John Kerry. He served in Vietnam you know.

    and he had a magic hat


  148. vagabond trader
    148 | November 7, 2009 4:40 pm

    @ lobo91:

    That is what concerns me too. Like I said Ginsburg and Stevens are vulnerable scotus justices and could be talked into retiring.For the good of the “party.” I’ve seen a few candidates the commie has waiting in the wings. Not good, they make Sotomayer look like a rightwingnut.


  149. song_and_dance_man
    149 | November 7, 2009 4:41 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ vagabond trader:
    I don’t disagree with you on that. There’s clearly nothing in the Constitution that permits the government to take over the health care industry.
    Knowing that and getting the courts to stop it are not the same thing, however.

    Er… there is this thing in the Constitution called the 10th amendment. There will be a legal battle over this. Hopefully the battle will extend into many years where, if Conservatives once again take control over the Executive and Legislature, this Leviathan of a Bill can be struck down and laid to rest in an ever growing socialist dump.


  150. tuffy
    150 | November 7, 2009 4:41 pm

    @ loppyd:

    Debating it now….


  151. 151 | November 7, 2009 4:42 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    The minute that my health care records are viewed by someone without my consent it is a violation of HIPAA.
    And how will you know (or be able to prove) that’s happened?

    Hmmm.

    I’m thinking of being denied coverage for something by a bureaucrat who reviewed my records without my consent.

    I will NOT sign another HIPAA form at my doctor’s office if they can’t guarantee my records will not be shared with anyone other than my doctors without my consent.


  152. 152 | November 7, 2009 4:43 pm

    Stupak amendment will be debated now.


  153. song_and_dance_man
    153 | November 7, 2009 4:43 pm

    rain of lead wrote:

    mfhorn wrote:
    krik_t_semaj
    and he had a magic hat

    He has two and both are made from tin foil.


  154. vagabond trader
    154 | November 7, 2009 4:44 pm

    Listen to the demagogue stumble over his lying tongue.


  155. chickadee
    155 | November 7, 2009 4:45 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    Read the link in #109. There are qualified legal minds at work already. Constitutional scholars, real ones, not fakers like Hussein. This will not stand,but I am not throwing in the towel just yet.

    I bet Mark Levin and The Landmark Legal Foundation are involved already.


  156. mawskrat
    156 | November 7, 2009 4:46 pm

    I’m just glad I get my health care free from my retirement system. health care for all is a great Idea it’s just not practicle in a supply/demand system without killing it. I worked in a hospital and never saw anyone turned away at the door for lack of insurance. in fact I saw people use ambulances as taxis to get to the hospital for treatment.


  157. 157 | November 7, 2009 4:46 pm

    Diane DeGette going off on the Stupak amendment

    comparing abortion to cancer treatment.

    waste of skin this woman


  158. vagabond trader
    158 | November 7, 2009 4:46 pm

    @ chickadee:

    Thats the one! Thanks. Damned straight there will be righteous indignation from the right people.


  159. lobo91
    159 | November 7, 2009 4:46 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    Er… there is this thing in the Constitution called the 10th amendment.

    Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single case where anyone’s ever successfully challenged a federal law on 10th Amendment grounds.

    There may have been one, but I sure can’t think of any.


  160. song_and_dance_man
    160 | November 7, 2009 4:49 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ song_and_dance_man:
    So did John McCain. He even got a Medal of Honor.
    Doesn’t mean he’s a good Republican Senator, though.

    McCain is a reacher. One would think since he was giving the opportunity to be knighted as next in line for all his (D) serving work as the across the isle placator, and then lost, he would have learned a valuable lesson. There is no need for a Maverick unless it serves those he reached out to. What a lunk.


  161. lobo91
    161 | November 7, 2009 4:49 pm

    @ chickadee:

    I bet Mark Levin and The Landmark Legal Foundation are involved already.

    I’m sure they are, but they don’t have standing to sue.

    There still has to be a plaintiff with an actual case for them to back.


  162. song_and_dance_man
    162 | November 7, 2009 4:52 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a single case where anyone’s ever successfully challenged a federal law on 10th Amendment grounds.
    There may have been one, but I sure can’t think of any.

    Your right about that. The last time there was a challenge by the States our country erupted into a most uncivil Cival War.

    Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that again. But…if the Constitution must be defended then….


  163. BuddyG
    163 | November 7, 2009 4:55 pm

    0bama Daycare


  164. lobo91
    164 | November 7, 2009 4:56 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    When I took Legislative Process as an undergrad, my instructor was a former Senator and chairman of the DNC.

    His opinion of the 10th Amendment was that it was something they stuck in there to palcate the rubes, and has no legal force whatsoever.

    I suspect that his view is pretty common among Dems.


  165. chickadee
    165 | November 7, 2009 5:01 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ chickadee:

    I bet Mark Levin and The Landmark Legal Foundation are involved already.

    I’m sure they are, but they don’t have standing to sue.

    There still has to be a plaintiff with an actual case for them to back.

    Don’t worry. There’s something in that 2000 page monstrosity that can be challenged successfully on some grounds by a plaintiff who will have standing.


  166. 166 | November 7, 2009 5:02 pm

    No congress can replace a weak President. Things weren’t so bad under Clinton mainly because he didn’t face any major challenges. Obama (and the Country) won’t be so fortunate.


  167. song_and_dance_man
    167 | November 7, 2009 5:03 pm

    @ lobo91:

    That may be true, but it is there and has the force of law, or at least should. And your right about it’s application. There has been no real test for it with one forceful exception and the ones who chose to hang their hat on it lost.


  168. 168 | November 7, 2009 5:04 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    rain of lead wrote:
    Speranza wrote:
    @ rain of lead:
    I’m afraid that he Republicans are too far behind in numbers – too many seats need to be recaptured.
    so our only hope is that after this pos becomes law…the supreme
    court MIGHT overturn it………… we are so fucked
    We are fucked – face it. Thank you assholes who bought into the hopenchange crap. Obama wants to have as many people as possible dependent on the government with a vested interest in this. This coutnry will be unrecognizable in 4 years.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xm1XErUvXo


  169. lobo91
    169 | November 7, 2009 5:06 pm

    @ chickadee:

    Don’t worry. There’s something in that 2000 page monstrosity that can be challenged successfully on some grounds by a plaintiff who will have standing.

    One of the problems with it is that it covers so many things. I guarantee that the bill will have a severability clause, which means that if one section is struck down, the rest remains in effect.

    In other words, loppyd might be successful in challenging part of it on privacy grounds, as she mentioned above, but that wouldn’t stop the rest of it.


  170. 170 | November 7, 2009 5:07 pm

    These women are so concerned about a decision between a woman and her doctor yet they are willing to vote for a bill that allows the govt to become a player in that private relationship.

    WTF


  171. vagabond trader
    171 | November 7, 2009 5:08 pm

    Well I for one am not going to become a ward of the state so I guess the troops will have to pay this ole girl a housecall.


  172. lobo91
    172 | November 7, 2009 5:10 pm

    @ loppyd:

    I think the term is cognitive dissonance.


  173. vagabond trader
    173 | November 7, 2009 5:10 pm

    @ loppyd:

    and most of them are well beyond their fertile years.


  174. 174 | November 7, 2009 5:11 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    I think the term is cognitive dissonance.

    And bingo was his name-o!


  175. 175 | November 7, 2009 5:12 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    and most of them are well beyond their fertile years.

    Are they all so angry because they are so ugly?


  176. lobo91
    176 | November 7, 2009 5:13 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    That’s a nicer version of what I was thinking, which was an observation that the women who are the most vehement supporters of abortion rights tend to be the least likely to ever need one (although not necessarily because of age).


  177. rain of lead
    177 | November 7, 2009 5:13 pm

    so how does this play out in the big picture?

    http://www.politico.com/livepulse/1109/GOP_Shadegg_to_buck_prolifers_party.html?showall

    Rep. John Shadegg (R-Ariz.) said he plans to buck right-to-life groups and his own party and vote “present” on a Democratic amendment that would prevent federal funding for abortions as part of health-care overhaul legislation.


  178. lobo91
    178 | November 7, 2009 5:13 pm

    @ loppyd:

    GMTA


  179. 179 | November 7, 2009 5:13 pm

    It will get a roll call vote….


  180. vagabond trader
    180 | November 7, 2009 5:14 pm

    @ loppyd:

    It can’t help!

    :D


  181. vagabond trader
    181 | November 7, 2009 5:16 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Thats ok,usually when my comment is short my nasty self is pondering more elaborate eeeeevil thoughts. I almost said cognitive dissonance too,lol.


  182. lobo91
    182 | November 7, 2009 5:17 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    Sounds like he views the amendment (probably rightly so) as a trick to get Republicans to vote for the bill.


  183. 183 | November 7, 2009 5:18 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    GMTA

    That’s right, baby.


  184. snork
    184 | November 7, 2009 5:20 pm

    @ loppyd:

    That works both ways.


  185. lobo91
    185 | November 7, 2009 5:21 pm

    OT: One of the reporters at this evening’s Ft Hood press conference actually asked if they knew when Hasan bought his guns. Finally, a decent question (although there was no answer).

    I’m going to bet that when they do find the answer, it turns out that he’s had them for awhile. This wasn’t a spur of the moment thing.

    And Army CID is still the lead investigative agency. So far, no attempt by DoJ to take over…


  186. 186 | November 7, 2009 5:21 pm

    snork wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    That works both ways.

    Which came first? The ugly or the angry? :)


  187. coldwarrior
    187 | November 7, 2009 5:23 pm

    if we were liberal activists, we would have figured out how to kill obama care in the courts by now…

    still cant manage to put cspan on the tv.


  188. song_and_dance_man
    188 | November 7, 2009 5:25 pm

    @ loppyd:

    Environmentalism took over and bags began to made of plastic. O those tree huggers.


  189. lobo91
    189 | November 7, 2009 5:25 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    if we were liberal activists, we would have figured out how to kill obama care in the courts by now…

    True, but if we were liberal activists, we’d have the courts on our side.

    It’s a lot easier that way…


  190. snork
    190 | November 7, 2009 5:25 pm

    @ loppyd:

    Right. If the angry doesn’t cause the ugly in the first place, it certainly exacerbates it. That’s no way to make the best of what you have to work with.

    But it’s the guys who have to go to anger management.


  191. vagabond trader
    191 | November 7, 2009 5:26 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    Not sure but it sounds like he is not falling for the ruse of using this abortion amendment to get R support to move the bill toward a vote.


  192. song_and_dance_man
    192 | November 7, 2009 5:27 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    if we were liberal activists, we would have figured out how to kill obama care in the courts by now…
    still cant manage to put cspan on the tv.

    Don’t bother. I’m still waiting for someone to speak from the heart.


  193. snork
    193 | November 7, 2009 5:28 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Weird as it may sound, the SCOTUS may be the most conservative branch of government at this point.

    The reds have taken over the other two branches. We’re dangling by the checks and balances at this point.


  194. snork
    194 | November 7, 2009 5:29 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    Now we see what Cantor’s made of.


  195. 195 | November 7, 2009 5:30 pm

    song_and_dance_man wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    Environmentalism took over and bags began to made of plastic. O those tree huggers.

    LOL

    Whole Foods kills trees!


  196. snork
    196 | November 7, 2009 5:31 pm

    We get to see…


  197. song_and_dance_man
    197 | November 7, 2009 5:32 pm

    And I’m sick the the (R)’s being the Me Too party. They talk of not standing against this calamity, but encourage it with another plan.


  198. lobo91
    198 | November 7, 2009 5:32 pm

    @ snork:

    Still plenty of liberal activists in the lower courts, though.


  199. rain of lead
    199 | November 7, 2009 5:33 pm

    now 35 dems to vote no

    http://twitter.com/GOPWhip/statuses/5520158252


  200. snork
    200 | November 7, 2009 5:33 pm

    @ loppyd:

    This issues illustrates why things are never neat and pat when dealing with the environment. Which is worse, biodegradable paper bags made from trees, or tiny plastic bags made from tiny amounts of natural gas?

    What’s a moonbat to do?


  201. vagabond trader
    201 | November 7, 2009 5:37 pm

    @ snork:

    He one of those to vote present?

    This is so close NY23 does not look so insignificant now. Wonder what the payoff was to that Skankafazzo and this Owens creature.


  202. rain of lead
    202 | November 7, 2009 5:37 pm

    btw
    tenn vs memphis
    ut 42
    mem 7
    end of 1st half


  203. vagabond trader
    203 | November 7, 2009 5:38 pm

    @ snork:

    If those damned cows would just quit breaking wind the earth would be a lot cooler.


  204. 204 | November 7, 2009 5:39 pm

    snork wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    This issues illustrates why things are never neat and pat when dealing with the environment. Which is worse, biodegradable paper bags made from trees, or tiny plastic bags made from tiny amounts of natural gas?
    What’s a moonbat to do?

    Buy a nice reusable bag from Whole Foods. LOL

    Dirty secret. Whole Foods still has plastic bags in the produce department…


  205. rain of lead
    205 | November 7, 2009 5:40 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ snork:
    If those damned cows would just quit breaking wind the earth would be a lot cooler.

    my daughter says if I would quit breaking wind the house would smell better


  206. 206 | November 7, 2009 5:40 pm

    Oklahoma Nebraska. 0/0. Still in the first.

    Wholly defensive game. Good game. but Oklahoma needs to win.


  207. vagabond trader
    207 | November 7, 2009 5:42 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    Beano.


  208. snork
    208 | November 7, 2009 5:44 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    No, he’s the guy who has to keep the R’s in line. If he can keep any R’s from going wobbly, he the man.


  209. 209 | November 7, 2009 5:52 pm

    snork wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    This issues illustrates why things are never neat and pat when dealing with the environment. Which is worse, biodegradable paper bags made from trees, or tiny plastic bags made from tiny amounts of natural gas?
    What’s a moonbat to do?

    Hmmm, I would suggest something to do with plastic bags and heads…. but that would probably be an insult to the plastic bags…


  210. vagabond trader
    210 | November 7, 2009 5:55 pm

    Wonder if Barney Frank will smoke a white owl after the vote.


  211. snork
    211 | November 7, 2009 5:59 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    I think he’d rather have a skinflute.


  212. song_and_dance_man
    212 | November 7, 2009 6:00 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    Wonder if Barney Frank will smoke a white owl after the vote.

    Maybe a Tiporello.


  213. 213 | November 7, 2009 6:01 pm

    Why would you want Democrats to pay attention? I hope they ignore this last election and ignore the Tea Party protesters! Nothing to see here Dems, move along Obama.


  214. Lizzie_in_Texas
    214 | November 7, 2009 6:02 pm

    What is the link to the chat?


  215. song_and_dance_man
    215 | November 7, 2009 6:02 pm

    He will lisp his way to his boy basement.

    Smoking…


  216. 216 | November 7, 2009 6:03 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    Wonder if Barney Frank will smoke a white owl after the vote.

    Maybe take a ride to Ho-Hum Lane in Ogunquit to hang with his BF and not notice any pot plants or bongs?


  217. Lizzie_in_Texas
    217 | November 7, 2009 6:05 pm

    Barney Frand = Elmer Fudd (sp?)


  218. 218 | November 7, 2009 6:07 pm

    @ snork:
    Cantor said 35 Dems will vote no. We need 41 to defeat this. Rack it up Eric!


  219. Lizzie_in_Texas
    219 | November 7, 2009 6:08 pm

    Al Gore = the brain, Lieberman = pinkey. I even deisgned a bumper stickr back in the day.


  220. Lizzie_in_Texas
    220 | November 7, 2009 6:08 pm

    Al Gore = the brain, Lieberman = pinkey. I even deisgned a bumper sticker back in the day.


  221. song_and_dance_man
    221 | November 7, 2009 6:09 pm

    @ loppyd:

    Let me guess if I Mae, BF means big fanny?


  222. Lizzie_in_Texas
    222 | November 7, 2009 6:10 pm

    Sorry for the double post. Computer issues.


  223. vagabond trader
    223 | November 7, 2009 6:11 pm

    @ loppyd:

    Does Barney have any teef in his head? He seems to be all gums or is it a speech impediment?


  224. 224 | November 7, 2009 6:12 pm

    @ vagabond trader:
    It’s teh gahy syndrome.


  225. vagabond trader
    225 | November 7, 2009 6:15 pm

    @ Marge45b:

    Yes, it seems a lack of teef would be for utility of purpose.

    He isn’t smoking hot that is for certain.


  226. vagabond trader
    226 | November 7, 2009 6:16 pm

    @ Lizzie_in_Texas:

    We’ll let it slide. This time.

    The chat is table 9, link on >>>> sidebar.

    :D


  227. 227 | November 7, 2009 6:17 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ loppyd:
    Does Barney have any teef in his head? He seems to be all gums or is it a speech impediment?

    Speech impediment.


  228. lobo91
    228 | November 7, 2009 6:17 pm

    Cantor’s speaking now on the Republican substitute bill.


  229. song_and_dance_man
    229 | November 7, 2009 6:18 pm

    Watching the debate on CPAN I wonder. Why does only B. Hussein get to use a teleprompter?


  230. vagabond trader
    230 | November 7, 2009 6:21 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    He is the ONE they have been waiting for.


  231. 231 | November 7, 2009 6:22 pm

    @ vagabond trader:
    Rush calls him the “Banking Queen!”


  232. song_and_dance_man
    232 | November 7, 2009 6:23 pm

    There is no doubt from watching this debate the left are filled with nuts.


  233. vagabond trader
    233 | November 7, 2009 6:25 pm

    @ Marge45b:

    Love that skit. Bet it drives the old banking queen bonkers, such a nasty humorless little man. lol.


  234. lobo91
    234 | November 7, 2009 6:27 pm

    Uh oh…Boehner’s got another one of his charts…


  235. vagabond trader
    235 | November 7, 2009 6:28 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    I’ve come to the conclusion that in lieu of the present lack of strong leadership the right needs a couple of good old fashioned silver tongued demagogues. Then we convene unAmerican activities hearings.


  236. song_and_dance_man
    237 | November 7, 2009 6:29 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    They have moved away from populism where a TOTUS for everyman in every ones entertainment room is not a real goal as they grope for utopia.


  237. song_and_dance_man
    238 | November 7, 2009 6:33 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    I’ve said this before- B. Hussein is the first half white president.


  238. vagabond trader
    239 | November 7, 2009 6:35 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    Quite a fascinating sub category of moonbattery.lol only in America.


  239. lobo91
    240 | November 7, 2009 6:35 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    At the very least, he’s the first half-assed one…


  240. vagabond trader
    241 | November 7, 2009 6:37 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    First unAmerican one in my lifetime.


  241. song_and_dance_man
    242 | November 7, 2009 6:37 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Carter would be pissed at that.


  242. vagabond trader
    243 | November 7, 2009 6:40 pm

    This bill is a pile of sh*t just as Boehner said.I guarantee that many people feeling smug and secure with their fine insurance plans are in for quite an unpleasant surprise.Including union membership.


  243. lobo91
    244 | November 7, 2009 6:40 pm

    @ song_and_dance_man:

    At least Carter tried to fight off the killer rabbit.

    Pretty sure Obama would run away.


  244. 245 | November 7, 2009 6:41 pm

    song_and_dance_man wrote:

    @ vagabond trader:
    They have moved away from populism where a TOTUS for everyman in every ones entertainment room is not a real goal as they grope for utopia.

    You sure it’s utopia they are groping, cause it damned sure feels like my wallet they are groping…


  245. song_and_dance_man
    246 | November 7, 2009 6:45 pm

    @ lobo91:

    LOL. B. Hussein would try to save it first, then tax it for obvious health reasons and finally come up with a new mutton recipe.


  246. snork
    247 | November 7, 2009 6:53 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    You sure it’s utopia they are groping, cause it damned sure feels like my wallet they are groping…

    Umm…hate to break the news to you, but that’s Barney Frank, and he’s got one hand going for the wallet, and the other going for something near by.


  247. 248 | November 7, 2009 6:57 pm

    @ snork:

    OK now I am going to throw up… thanks for that mental image snork..


  248. rain of lead
    249 | November 7, 2009 6:58 pm

    http://twitter.com/michellemalkin


  249. song_and_dance_man
    250 | November 7, 2009 7:01 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    It was either the reach for or around. Seduction is a thing that is not limited to only things outside politics.


  250. deleted
    251 | November 7, 2009 7:28 pm

    @ vagabond trader

    It is really difficult for me to look at Dick Morris and not see a chubby middle aged man crawling around the floor wearing a dog collar and possibly barking.

    —-

    Don’t forget naked, with his flabby folds of gut-flesh quivering like the proverbial bowl of jelly.


  251. randian
    252 | November 7, 2009 7:52 pm

    The Republicans are already blowing it. They’re talking about ‘governing from the center’ in Virginia and New Jersey. That proves they just don’t get it.


  252. 253 | November 7, 2009 11:14 pm

    I’m sure this has already been mentioned, but I’m too lazy now to read through the thread…

    When Socialist Party “R” won Congress in 1994, Newt Gingrich made sure that nothing of any real substance changed. From Newt’s comments recorded at that book signing, it is evident that he learned absolutely nothing. If Socialist Party “R” gets Congress again in 2010, they’ll just piss the opportunity away. The voters just keep recycling the same bunch of crooks through Congress over and over again and they wonder why nothing changes for the better. Oh well…


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