From Ron Bailey at Reason Magazine, this piece dissects what “green jobs” (remember Van Jones?) has meant for Germany where it’s been tried.
Proponents of renewable energies often regard the requirement for more workers to produce a given amount of energy as a benefit, failing to recognize that this lowers the output potential of the economy and is hence counterproductive to net job creation. Significant research shows that initial employment benefits from renewable policies soon turn negative as additional costs are incurred. Trade and other assumptions in those studies claiming positive employment turn out to be unsupportable.
Well, Golly. That didn’t work out like it was supposed to, did it? Who knew that if you try to force decisions on the market that the market wouldn’t have made on its own, that there might be side effects?
Despite the fondest hopes of Kerry, Pelosi, Markey, and other Democrats in Congress, carbon rationing has not noticeably sparked a technological revolution in Europe yet. One might argue that a cleantech takeoff is just around the corner and that the energy revolution is just at the same stage as the Internet revolution was in 1991. Maybe. But the Internet analogy deployed by Kerry and co. misses the mark in another way—the Internet and cell phone boom took off as a result of deregulation and was largely financed by private capital. By contrast, the Capitol Hill denizens now haunting the Copenhagen conference imagine they can spark a similar technological revolution by passing a massive 1,400-page bill, laden with subsidies, tax breaks, and fine-grained regulations for all aspects of energy production.
Let me dispose one myth right here and now about the internet. The internet, as we know it, was not created by the government; US or otherwise. The DoD created an ad-hocish patchwork of military and academic minicomputers connected by an assortment of serial links of the sort that were leading-edge at the time of the creation. They were roughly like RS-232 links. Comparing that to today’s internet is like comparing a bicycle to a Saturn V rocket.
The internet didn’t really come into its own until the World Wide Web (WWW) was placed on top of it by the private sector. The infrastructure was in the hands of private telecommunications firms at that point. For practical intents and purposes, the government agencies that originally organized the internet had lost control of it a decade earlier.
There are many other examples floating the internet of government taking credit for what was substantially done by the private sector: the transistor, the integrated circuit, the jet airplane, even the original digital computer was a Navy project. So technology can’t possibly get out of the nest without a government incubator, right?
These examples all ignore the technologies that were launched with no government sponsorship; the television, the telephone and telegraph, electrical power, pretty much every of over 1000 inventions Edison patented. The point being, when the time is right, it will appear.
So what does this have to do with green jobs?
1. As the German study indicates, they displace other jobs.
2. If the technologies were ripe, they’d happen anyway.
3. If the technologies aren’t ripe, as is the case with most of this green tech, its a forced fit.
In other words, you can’t push on a rope. Central planning never worked when the Soviets tried it, and Obama isn’t magically more able than Stalin.
So, does this mean that we’re stuck with oil and oil ticks forever? No. Just as you can’t command technology, you also can’t anticipate it. When the worldwide price of oil stays high, because of new demand from the developing nations, the alternatives become more attractive. We can’t tell in advance what these alternatives will be, but what is as reliable as the sunrise is that the market will seek the optimum solution.
In other words, carbon caps will be superfluous when a better alternative comes along, and will be dangerous until then. Let me put it this way: ask yourself two questions. When has the market, absent some insider monkey business involving the government, failed? And, when has the government failed?
Which would you trust the earth to?
Tags: Green jobs
Forget guns … What kind of snowball should I own?
Sorry, a bit to early to go O/T.
Ah, but the response to a litany of Communism’s past failures is always something along the lines of “but they just didn’t apply it right” or “that doesn’t mean that it won’t work here.” This returns us to Albert Einstein.
did Captain Kirk get a green job from that one green girl
Wow, someone else is awake!
mawskrat wrote:
http://i48.tinypic.com/x2uqlv.png
(I should strikeout “chick” and add “job” to that image)
i have a great idea for a TON of green jobs.
BUILD THOUSANDS OF NUCLEAR POWER STATIONS.
FIX THE ELECTRIC GRID
they only emit steam, and whith the new technologies in reactor cores there is less radioactive waste
reduced the $$$ going to the oil tics and employs thousands in great jobs.
see yinz later, time to go play in the snow.
coldwarrior wrote:
That’s white male logic. Report to your local reeducation camp.
@ coldwarrior:
yeh CW I have plenty of friends in the building trades that
could use long term employment
nuclear power plants are mostly built by union trades and that’s a good thing in my view
I saw this one episode of Penn and Tellers Bullshit on how recycling actually uses more waste and energy than not to recycle. And then there was just one example on Catalina Island that works beautifully of which seems like a perfect solution to many problems. Why I wonder hasn’t this technology taken off? I have to wonder if the gov or some monopoly prevents this from being the norm.
All the trash and garbage is taken to the dump where the technology is constructed in a way that it produces methane gas which is then used for the islands energy use. None of the methane enters the environment. So Catalina solved 2 problems in one. How to make use of the garbage dump and self sufficient energy as well.
teacake wrote:
That’s obvious. If recycling were as efficient and money-saving as the greenies claimed, businesses wouldn’t require regulations and subsidies to do it. They would have already been doing it on their own, like they’ve been doing with aluminum cans and newspapers for decades. (The later may save money, but is harmful to the environment due to the many chemicals required to bleach the paper pulp before it can be reused.)
Also, and I don’t know how real this was or if it was total hype or not. Right after Katrina this guy put in a bid to solve a huge problem since there was millions of tons of waste and debris here. He was on some radio show explaining the technology he had available. Like I said, were these just claims or was it real. Just because his technology has vanished to never hear of him again, doesn’t mean it wasn’t real or viable, since we all know people and their ideas can be killed off, not that he was actually killed.
He had a series of portable machines that ground up any sort of material including metal, plastic, wood, everything and anything, into almost a powder, and then was made into any type of building material that was needed. Any size any shape. He estimated he could have turned all the mountains of debris left by Katrina into building materials in less than 2 years. The city did not even consider his bid. Meaning, in this so-called green technology, no doubt it will still be business as usual. Just because someone has really practical and useful technology, won’t insure their products will be available.
The new Obamao disapproval poll is -15. It’s only been lower 3 times. The daily Rasmussen Poll is a rolling average from the past 3 days. I expect a continued downward trend as the negative effects of the Copenchange disaster, the healthcare vote and the continued unease over the NYC terror trials take their toll on Comrade Zero. Hope to see -20 by the end of the year.
huckfunn wrote:
There will probably be a temporary bump upwards in his approval as people are filled with holiday good cheer and not paying as much attention to politics (which is why Congress is voting on Christmas Eve).
Anyhow, I’m curious about natural gas. Apparently there is a lot of that in the US which is not being used at all. I’ve heard it said that using it would help not have to use oil or coal. Just seems to me that corruption will still prevent the development of “greener” technology that is already available, but will still be squashed. If I’m not mistaken, this Dem gov is beefing up unions and union control so that the gov and the unions will be merged, thus eliminating more and more private innovations. (???)
@ huckfunn:
That list is so long and gets bigger at a furious speed each day. I heard it said on talk radio that moving the Gitmo detainees to the Chicago area will be a thousand times worse than the upcoming NYC trial. Multiply that by however many detainees having their day in court.
Is there a full list of all the bullshit, huck?
Good morning, Netizens. We got about 14 inches of snow here in DC rather than the expected 24-26 inches. Still, it’s a record snowfall for December.
God’s blessings abound as no one has lost power and no traffic messes as people had the good sense to stay home. I’m really enjoying the view – very beautiful! I expect the kids to be out shortly to start sledding down the hill!
teacake wrote:
…the workers will control the means of production and thus bring about the glorious worker’s paradise!
@ vapig:
I’ve got to go, but not everyone was reacting sanely to the snow in DC.
RoboMonkey wrote:
I think that would be the usual expectation. However, the angry left is right now angrier at Obama than the angry right is. The failure in Copenhagen and the fact the there’s no public option in HC has them really pissed. On top of that, the libs are an unhappy lot to begin with. I think BO continues to drop.
@ teacake:
Pelousy passed a bill forbidding the exploration of natural gas – mainly because she is herself invested in windmills. Definite conflict of interest and she should be arrested – but this is dems we’re talking about. But yes – the US is the Saudi Arabia of coal and natural gas. Both are clean fuels – but using them would conflict with the progs agenda in turning the US into a third world hell hole.
Good morning. Who doesn’t want a clean environment?
All of this going Green , including Green jobs just looks politically driven, rather that actually doing any good.
You do not do voodoo tinkering with jobs during a recession.
Don’t know if this would be a good thing or not. And, will this apply to the Zero admin as well?
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9CN2T9O0&show_article=1&catnum=0
@ RoboMonkey:
Well, that’s DC, so it’s to be expected. I live in Virginia and I guess those are the peeps I care about and was referring to!
@ RIX:
You do if your goal is to cripple it permanently.
teacake wrote:
Not that I know of but this seems to be a good place and time to start one. In addition to the Git-Ill (I think I coined a new term)thing, last weeks jobs report was “unexpectedly” bad. I’m not quite sure who’s expectations were not met.
@ RoboMonkey:
like it or not nuclear power plants are built mostly by union trades.
union trades have a higher level of training usualy than non-union trades. I’m not talking about monkey unions like seiu and afscme
Last night while watching the Saints game at the local dive there were 2 commercials from Mary Landrieu that made the health coverage seem like a wondrous dream come true. Coverage for everyone, even with existing problems, won’t effect the deficit, joy to the world sort of thing.
A moment later you know how conversations suddenly twist from one topic to another…. this gal told me that many years ago, she believed it was during Clinton’s admin… that a friend of her’s was hitch hiking and a big rig picked her up. He told her that the strangest thing he ever had to deliver in a big rig was ONE bottle of champagne to the White House!!!!!!!!!!
@ teacake:
How ’bout them Cowboys!!!
vapig wrote:
Yeah, that’s what I think. Like a Sophist, create the crisis then supply the answer, Socialism.
@ teacake:
teacake…how much does a shot of Jim Beam and a Bud cost at your local dive? one of my local dives I can get both for 3 dollars total
mawskrat wrote:
No doubt certain fields unions are necessary… but it seems like every aspect of the “job market” is headed in that direction. The entire medical profession comes to mind.
As I recall as a kid in the 70s the school system was not controlled by unions. There was a teachers strike during my last year of high school and it seemed to me back then, that that is when the unions took over the school systems. Soon after that, things went way downhill.
@ huckfunn:
Ya don’t have to rub it in. But one of the Saints said it was good for them to have that challenge.
@ mawskrat:
where do you live? LOL Well, this dive bar isn’t known for cheap drinks other than during happy hour when everything is half price. LOL Its just a dive on the inside.
This is what happens when bills are passed and signed prior to reading:
Friggin’ geniuses.
teacake wrote:
Sorry about that. I hadn’t abused anyone all morning and you appeared to be available. If it’s any consolation to you, the Cowboys will probably be watching from home as the Saints play in the Super Bowl.
@ RIX:
This admin has been a master at creating crisis. It’s one crisis after another. If we don’t do something now the sky will fall!
@ MacDuff:
LOL
@ huckfunn:
Glad you’re not my neighbor. LOL But at least you apologized which my former abusive neighbors never did.
Neighbor-wise, I’m pretty docile. I never shoot my guns after 10PM. How’s that for thoughtful? When I moved to the Dallas area in 1970, I actually went to a couple of Cowboys games when they played in the Cotton Bowl. Don Merideth would sit down at the end of the bench with a towel over his head smoking a cigarette.
vapig wrote:
That’s exactly right. Things are cobbled together in secret. When they roll it out they are hysterical about the urgency.
“Don’t read it & if you don’t vote now you hate puppies.”
@ RoboMonkey:
Yeah, but January unemployment is going to suck with all the seasonal workers that are let go. With unemployment already north of 10%, it is going to be bad.
Good Morning Folks,
I was at a small Christmas gathering last night, talking to a friend who travels in the world of libs.
She said, none of those who sung Zero’s praises around election time are doing that now. They are worried abt. losing their jobs and paying their mortgages. If they thought Zero was the messiah a year ago, they don’t now. My friend said it seems odd how he doesn’t even come up in conversation at this point.
@ teacake:
I live down by the river in a van.
@ mawskrat:
LOL
C ya’ll later
@ chickadee:
Morning Chicadee! I simply don’t trust the libral of the species. As soon as Hussein appears to do something to their liking the magic will return to these lefties.Regardless, guaranteed they will vote for him again.
@ chickadee:
Do you believe that reverse racism plays a part in their silence?
I do.
chickadee wrote:
Mugged by reality, eh? They (and we) haven’t even begun to feel the pain; wait until the bills for all of this excess come due. Wait until none of this government-run crap works, oh the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be deafening.
Me? I’m just going to smile and ask people of that ilk “so, how’s that “Hope” and “Change” working out for you?”.
Maybe the next time they choose a President, they’ll do so on more than fanciful slogans. Getting mugged by reality is a bitch.
@ Iron Fist:
Don’t forget that’s also when the Bush tax-cuts expire. People are immediately going to see a hike in their withholding taxes – taxes they won’t see returned in 2011 when they file their tax returns.
@ vapig:
Hi Vapig!!! Enjoying the snow? We have about a foot and a half,nothing new here,lol.
Check this out.More crisis indeed.How to shake down a great nation then go back for seconds. How much more will we put up with. **sigh**
http://www.examiner.com/x-32743-Tazewell-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m12d18-Fannie-Mae-and-Freddie-Mac-to-seek-more-money-from-taxpayers
@ teacake:
See ya, Teacake. Have a good day!
@ vagabond trader:
Good morning, VT! {{hugs}}
@ vagabond trader:
We got about the same here – except 6 inches can shut this place down, lol!
Are you really surprised at the Freddie and Fannie thing? These are the same people who’ve seen socialism fail in countless countries and still think they can do it “right.”
Morning everyone! This says it all for me.
Air Force One landing in a blizzard; bringing the One home from the global WARMING conference (don’t know if everyone has seen this already; late Friday night news video; apologies if so, but I think it’s hilarious!)
Obama arrives in blizzard
@ Bumr50:
Morning Bumr! Yup, probably subconscious reverse racism and the inability to say we screwed up. Big time. They will soon know how large of a mistake they made and will probably blame the “obstructionist right.”
Speaking with some working folk in RI they are against most of the idiotic plans yet still blame Wall St. and big biz. Duh, most of the czars and other financial crime bosses cut their teeth on Wall St.
@ vapig:
Yeah, and I’m dreading that. I need every penny I’m making.
MacDuff wrote:
Well, unless the wording gets corrected before June (according to the law, Amtrak has six months to implement it), the Congress has effectively passed what amounts to a complete ban on guns on Amtrak. I’m not entirely convinced that this was an accident. Simply copying and pasting wouldn’t have changed the wording, someone had to do that manually.
@ vapig:
{Vapig} Its so purdy though,esp around Christmas. Yuh, even lifelong New Englanders are stoopid after the first major snowfall. I declare AGW is dead and buried by 18 inches of the white stuff! Still coming down here.
@34 MacDuff wrote:
FYI: Blogged and credited
@ Iron Fist:
Same here with the ole man retiring and us residing in one of the most confiscatory states in the USA.I wonder if cat food really tastes that bad.
@ vagabond trader:
Rat is all white meat…
@ RoboMonkey:
How interesting and I have no doubt this was done with purpose, given the character of the elected dissemblers. Wonder why they targeted Amtrak.Chipping away at the 2nd begins.
@ Iron Fist:
LOL!!! What about mouse, we have plenty of those little varmints trying to invade our turf. Damn, maybe a good mouser kitteh could be convinced to do the dirty work and we’ll all dine like kings.
Do you rmember when Chuck Johnson, Race Dectective went batshit, because he saw a Tea Party sign that said something like “Obama, go back to Kenya?”
To CJ this was a clear racist remark suggesting that a Black men go to Africa. He completely ignored that his father was from “Kenya.”
Now on the Hot Air thread He has an ad for a Bronze Bust of BHO with proceeds going to KENYAN charities.
@ RIX:
I almost want to try and register a sock just to post a big “HaHa!” when the donks lose big next year. The Race Detective will lose what is left of his meth addled mind.
Iron Fist wrote:
He’ll just blame a vast Right Wing, racist conspiracy.
Charlie will not man up enough to admit that obamas policies are rejected, but it will make him nuttier.
@64 RIX wrote:
Isn’t this a more appropriate bust?
mawskrat @ 43:
Touché, many many updings.
Oh, should probably say that #67 might be NSFW, if you’re at work on a Sunday morning.
@ vagabond trader:
Mornin!’
Gotta head to church. BBL.
@ RoboMonkey:
Now that’s funny.
Michael Mann, climate scientist to the stars and legend in his own mind; author of the “Hockey Stick” graph wrote a Washington post article trying to cover his ass. LMAO the comments section is hilarious!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/17/AR2009121703682_Comments.html#
Chuckles must be proud; he’s even tried to bash Sarah Palin to divert the attention away from this hoax. What a fraud!
Mrs.Robinson wrote:
Thanks for posting that video of Zero in a blizzard. Did you notice how he jauntily sauntered down the steps of the plane like Mother Nature wasn’t dumping a major load on his hatless stupid head.
What a fcking joke.
The invaluable Mark Steyn has a great post over at The Corner about health care.
The money quote from his piece, from Kim Strassel at WSJ:
This isn’t about altruism; it’s about their dreams of permanently socializing the United States, just as is every move that this administration has made.
Newt Gingrich once said that “a culture can be lost in one generation“; we are now living in that generation.
At what point do we reach “the point of no return”, when these massive changes in the innate mechanics of our capitalist system are irrevokable? At what point do these malevolent liberals do such mortal damage to our beloved republic, that the republic, as we know it, ceases to exist?
Good morning all!!!
Glad to see you guys here. Ryan-the-Eagle-Scout and his brother are shoveling my driveway …. 19 inches of snow here in the DC burbs.
@ Mrs.Robinson:
There’ll be a thread about that later today.
@ chickadee:
Hiya checkadee! Yes I did. And yes he is!
I’ve been meaning to post this video all weekend. I bet it wasn’t shown very much at all on the news the next day.
mawskrat wrote:
same price here give or take a quarter
LOL not “checkadee” chickadee of course. PIMF :0)
Good morning everyone. Boy this is different, I’m so use to working nights and be about the only one here. How is everyone today?
@ snork:
cool! I love you and thank you for keeping up on this topic!
@ linoleumknife:
Good morning!
@ Mrs.Robinson:
Thank you.
I hope your Sunday is going well so far. Of course, with all the crud our “representatives” are doing “on our behalf” it is hard to see things as going well.
And sort of on topic, Glenn Reynolds nails it right on the head:
That’s what happens when you try to tell people ghost stories.
@ linoleumknife:
Good morning knife.
@ linoleumknife:
No kidding, but when you tune it all out; this time of year is very special. We are almost ready for Christmas Day, and have been enjoying the decorations and….the liquor in the meantime! ;0)
Proponents of renewable energies often regard the requirement for more workers to produce a given amount of energy as a benefit, failing to recognize that this lowers the output potential of the economy and is hence counterproductive to net job creation.
I think we forget, or don’t want to believe, that is the point of the Obamacy. To weaken the US from within.
@ kansas:
The idea that more jobs to do a give task is a good thing is identical to saying that productivity is a bad thing. This is actually an old socialist idea, and before the socialists, the Luddites believed the same thing.
Old piss in new bottles.
@ RIX:
Hey hey RIX! LOL, I’m a little goofy this morning. I am not used to be up right now, but I like being off nights for now.
@ Mrs.Robinson:
Absolutely, I love Christmas. I was talking to my friend last night and he was telling me about how stressed he was. I told him to think of baby Jesus anytime he feels like losing it. I think that if more people inbraced God and they would be much less stressed and have better lives.
@ linoleumknife:
Hey hey RIX! LOL, I’m a little goofy this morning. I am not used to be up right now, but I like being off nights for now.
Good for you. When we talk Weekday mornings you’re just arriving home & I am getting ready to leave.
Working nights is tough.
@ RIX:
Well actually most of the time I am finishing things up at work. My job is pretty cool in the fact that it has designated duties on each shift. If I work hard and finish a little early I can take some time to do other things.
@ linoleumknife:
That is good advice.
@ linoleumknife:
That doesn’t sound bad. Even though I work days, this time of year it is dark when I leave & dark when I go home.
This is not my favorite time of year.
@ RIX:
Where do you live? Up north?
@ Mrs.Robinson:
Thank you, I try.
@ linoleumknife:
Where do you live? Up north?
Yeah, the Chicago Area.
@ RIX:
Oh ok. I’m sorry. Well maybe with all this gorebull warming we will be getting longer days. Huh, that’s not how it works?
I just read through the prayer list. It is always sobering to see what others are facing. I am so blessed in my life and I should take more time to recognize that.
Kerry : “same-same” fraud.
If your leader is a fraud, some chance you will be defrauded too.
Mrs.Robinson wrote:
The very idea of slowing down the economy “until we can find cleaner sources of energy” assumes at least two very silly things:
1. The cost to develop that “cleaner” source will be small.
2. Nuclear fission doesn’t exist.
If 1 isn’t so then slowing down the economy will delay the implementation of same.
Assumption 2 is a touchstone for me. Anyone claiming that use chemical fuels imperils civilization who simultaneously opposes expanded use of fission is either hopelessly ignorant, a huckster or a loon.
@ coldwarrior:
But nuclear energy is just…well…evil!
Seriously, Crusader is right. You can’t believe in AGW and not believe in the nuclear option, but after 20 years of the Simpsons, when people think nuclear power, they think Montgomery Burns at the helm and Homer Simpson at the switch.
Overcoming that paradigm will be a major challenge.