The Balkan Problem, Part 2a
Did the US and NATO pick the wrong side in the Yugoslavian Wars?
Submitted 30 Dec 2009
Next is Part 2b: Who are the KLA?
See this link for a Timeline of the Yugoslav wars
We ended Part 1 by attempting to understand why the Serbian Army and the Paramilitary Scorpions (both Serb Orthodox) perpetrated the massacre at Srebrenica; we also noted the lack of reporting on the history of violence between the Muslims and Catholics against the Serbian Orthodox in the region.
I would like to move back a few years to 1990 for some further background. The Communist government collapsed and the elections in the former Yugoslav Republics returned nationalist provincial governments. Marshall Tito’s dream of a unified and peaceful Yugoslavia was soon to die a very violent death.
The first country to walk out of the Yugoslavian government was Slovenia, this was easy for them as they were ethnically and religiously homogeneous. Croatia was next to try to leave rump Yugoslavia, this was going to be problematic at best. The map shows that several areas of Croatia were majority Serb. The problem was the Croatian Defense minister was caught on tape arming civilian Croats in preparation of a fight with the Serbian Army and the Croatian Government entities that did not side with the Catholic Croatians, many of the comments on the tape alert the Serbs that nationalism will be used against them in Croatia.
By March of 1991, there were demonstrations against Milosevic and rule from Belgrade. In June, Slovenia is independent after a quick 10 day war with the Yugoslavian Army. The army departs Slovenia and begins to support the Serb minority in Croatia. Given the history that the Croatian Catholics have when dealing with Orthodox Serbs, this supports seems the right thing to do. There is full blown war in the FYRs by September 1991, in 1992 Bosnian Muslim Govenment declares independence as well, note on the map the distribution of Serbs and Muslims in Bosnia. The areas in Croatia that are vast majority Serb declare independence, the Republic of Serbian Krajnia. The Serb entity is never recognized.
The siege of Sarajevo begins and the Bosnian Serbs take 70% of Bosnia Herzegovina, the Yugoslav Army left all of their equipment for the Serbs to use against the Muslims. The press then eagerly covers the ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Catholics by the Serbs. They move to areas cleansed of Serbian Orthodox a year ago in Croatia. The caterwauling of the international press was absent when the Serbs were shelled and forced out of their homes in Knin region during the Croatian, Muslim Bosnian, and Western Backed operation Storm in Aug of 1995 Often termed by critics as the “biggest ethnic cleansing operation of the Yugoslav Wars”, it resulted in the exodus of the entire Serbian population in these areas, approximately 250,000 refugees.
Concurrently the ‘massacre’ in Srebrenica is beginning, The Serbs asked the Muslim Commanders to surrender and lay down their arms, the UN commander asked the same thing. The Muslim refused, officers left the area, leaving their soldiers and civilians to be killed by the Serbs. The Serbs at least have the mercy to send almost all of the women and children away to safety before they begin the massacre of Muslim soldiers, many of whom were mujaheddin, Hezbollah, and Muslim civilian men of military age. It would have been a better bargaining chip for the Serbs had they sent those 7800 to a prison camp; given the narrative in part 1 of this series, one can understand the generations old rage from the concentration camps in WWII and see at least why the Serbs did not do this. ( I am not sure that I have the whole story here, there might be a part 4 just on what happened in Srebrenica because there are details in the press that do not match with later formal official investigations.) By late 1995, the war in Bosnia Herzegovina has ended. Cooperation between Croats and Serbs begins. There is still open animosity between the Bosnian Muslims and the Orthodox Serbs
The next war in former Yugoslavia is from an external force. In March of 1998, fighting breaks out in the republic of Kosovo between ethnic Albanians Muslims and the Serbs. Milosevic sends in the army to battle a new entity. The Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). The KLA comes out of the Albanian Communist Party under Enver Hoxa. The KLA also enjoyed support from Iran, Bosnia Herzegovina under Alija Izedbegovic (see part1), USA, UK, Turk, Croats, and Muslim fighters from all over the Ummah. By 1997, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Command had been moving massive amounts of weapons, Iranian trained and controlled al-Quds men, training and money into Albania to be used in Kosovo. Again Serbia is on the front line of a war against expansionist Islam; an Islamic enemy that is backed by the USA. The Clinton administration had been supporting the KLA since 1992. The core of the KLA comes from the 5000 Muslim Kosovar and Albanian men that had fought along side of the Croats and Muslim Bosniaks against the Orthodox Serbs.
Why would the US back radical Muslims in Europe who are backed by Iran and Hezbollah? In the 1990′s Kosovo is attempting to break away from Yugoslavia, of which Serbia is the main power. Kosovo becomes a breakaway republic, Milosevic orders the military to quell an externally agitated rebellion. This is a sovereign state acting on it’s own territory. It does not warrant US involvement. But, according to Clinton’s people this could domino throughout the southern Balkans and spread and cause a wider war in Europe. In reality, by turning a blind eye to the external forces in the KLA, one can only assume that the Clinton administration and NATO were in fact more interested in destabilizing Serbia, preventing Albanian refugee flight to Western Europe, and cleaning up the pieces with an expanded NATO.
The Domino theory was trotted out by the same left wing ex-hippies that protested against the exact same theory in the 1960′s. Combine this with a mission-less NATO in need of an expanded role and expansion of itself to survive, a defeated and inwards looking Russia, and the later need for the Clinton administration to get the Lewinski matter behind them so the Clinton administration could get back to looking presidential. Milosevic was the perfect target, an ex-communist who looked like a dictator and was backed by Russia. This would also assure the real world example of the Clinton Doctrine, where if the US and the world can stop genocide and ethnic cleansing it should (unless its in Africa i.e. Rwanda). The Serbs are not the party with expansionist ambitions in the southern Balkans; the Albanians are. Kosovo Liberation Army commanders have stated that their ultimate goal is, not merely an independent Kosovo, but the creation of a Greater Albania. Nationalist groups in Albania openly circulate maps of Greater Albania — an entity that includes not merely Albania and Kosovo but an additional slice of Serbia, all of western Macedonia and a large chunk of northern Greece.
The Clinton Administration persuaded NATO, Germany and the UK to follow its lead in Yugoslavia. The West, pushed by Clinton sided with Expansionist Islamist over Christian Orthodox Serbs for political and Clinton Doctrine-place-in-history reasons. The West chose to support the KLA which was backed by the Muslim Ummah because the West did not want to deal with the possibility of Albanian Muslim refugees on their borders, and was naïve of the Islamic threat, especially the Americans do not realize that Islam had already declared war on them in the 1990′s.
Up next: Who are the KLA?
Tags: Balkans
! This Balkan history is more convoluted than the Wars of the Roses!
@ vagabond trader:
Yep. I read the post twice and am still confused.
Ummmm…. who won?
@ huckfunn:
the serbs and croats are a draw. the war against the kla never really ends.
Drink!
@ vagabond trader:
i am
I recall back in the 90′s right-wing pundits and some Christian pastors commenting about how we were siding with the Moslems against the Christians in the Balkans war.
The reaction was something like, we knew Billy Boy wasnt really a Christian, yada yada yada..
Muslims got a foothold in this area because some Europeans were too cowardly to fight them. They submitted. That is unforgivable. People who were once Christians gave up. The assumed muslim names and traditions. And now the disease festers, ever closer. I find it disgusting.
Repost from a late post on the first post of this subject. BTW – I love these types of posts. The info makes me look further into the situation(s) and history in a different view point than I have looked at it before. These type of posts are what used to make 1.0 (and now make us, what I love about the blogosphere). I love to learn new things and thanks to Coldwarrior, buzzsawmonkey, goddessoftheclassroom, WrathofG-d and many, many others I have found a place to do that.
**************
If anyone is interested in a good book based in this region (Yugoslavia) and WWII, I highly recommend this one..
The Forgotten 500: The Untold Story of the Men Who Risked All For the Greatest Rescue Mission of World War II
Bombing of the Ploiesti, Romania, oil refineries, a key German resource, started in 1942. Allied pilots sustaining damage frequently bailed out over Serbia in German-occupied Yugoslavia, where the resistance and others hid them. By 1944, more than 500 were stranded and slowly starving. The OSS concocted the daring Operation Halyard to airlift them, but they had to construct a landing strip without tools and without alerting the Germans or endangering local villagers, and then the rescuers had to avoid being shot down themselves. The operation’s story is an exciting tale, but it was kept from general knowledge for decades; the resistance leader most responsible was a rival to Tito. Nazi-baited by a Stalinist mole in British intelligence, he was executed in 1946 with the consent of Britain and America, which thereafter refused to acknowledge having been snookered (the State Department kept many details classified more than 50 years). Evoking the rescuees’ successive desperation, wild hope, and joy, and their gratitude to the Serbians who risked their lives to help, Freeman produces a breathtaking popular account. Murray, Frieda
coldwarrior wrote:
Thanks, Cold. I’m hoping that the outcome of the Arizona – Nebraska Holiday Bowl will be more decisive. Also, Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska will regale us at halftime with the wisdom and logic of his sellout to Harry Reid. Can’t wait.
@ coldwarrior:
Did you read my post on the first part?
this will all wind up tomorrow with part 3.
we made a massive error in the 1990′s
BTW, this thread takes forever and a day to reload. Anyone else having that problem?
@ gulfloafer:
about the books? yes, i put those on the list to read
huckfunn wrote:
the idaho v bgsu game was a barnburner!
@ coldwarrior:
Please promise that you will post more in the future regarding history. I really enjoy them.
@ buzzsawmonkey:
The whole site has been slow for days now, even with my broadband cable.
@ Dolphin:
well, thank you.
i will. i like to use these as background pieces for current events
coldwarrior wrote:
This is such good information. Very enlightening. Thank you for these postings.
I love history. It is always fascinating.
coldwarrior wrote:
Dang it all! I missed that one. Work sure cuts into a day.
@ coldwarrior:
They fit. Perfectly.
i do realize that these posts can get quite dense…but there is a pupose to them…this age old conflict in the balkans has reverberations all the way up to today…again, part 3 wraps it all up nicely
Back during the wars a business associate asked if I’d donate to his brethren from Kosovo I think. He was Orthodox so I did, figured it wasn’t going to the muzz.
@ song_and_dance_man:
Here too, posting takes forever.
@ coldwarrior:
It is a complex issue when the players come from many places, but the bottom line in this war of the our age is Allah v. the God of Abraham; and for those on either side, a war between good and evil.
coldwarrior wrote:
Information is not always quik’n'easy. Taking the time to deal with complexities is a good thing.
G’nite, folks.
song_and_dance_man
Don’t mean to go off-topic so early, but I am going to get off the computer. I think it was you and I and a couple of others, talking about music (Rush) a month or so ago on a Sunday afternoon (I was posting under Lizzie_in_Texas). I was going to look into Rush’s history – well here is a very interesting site that I found.
http://www.erikandanna.com/Rush/rush_bios.htm
Geddy Lee (Gary Lee Weinrib)
(Born: 7/29/53) Geddy has a son: Julian, a daughter: Kyla Avril, and a Wife: Nancy Young… his long time girlfriend. They held a traditional Jewish wedding in 1976 and had a two-week honeymoon in Hawaii.
Polish parent’s survivors of WWII concentration camp. After liberation they emigrated to Canada. Mother pronounces Gary in Yiddish accent, making the sound Geddy. Raised near Toronto (Willowdale)
He is often referred to as “the guy that sounds like a girl” because of his high-pitched singing voice in the earlier albums, which, in my opinion made the band what it was! His voice has somewhat mellowed out as the albums progress, and you can notice a difference if you listen to Rush and then listen to Test for Echo. Gedy plays the Bass Guitar and Synthesizers and he is the Vocals of the band.
******************
Alex Lifeson (Alex Zivojinovic)
(Born: 8/27/53) Alex has 2 sons: Justin and Adrian, and a wife: Charlene. He is of Yugoslavian heritage (Lifeson is the English translation of Zivojinovich). Yugoslavian parents, Immigrants to Canada. Alex was born in Fernie British Columbia. Raised in the suburb of Willowdale.
Alex is the third member of the trio that makes up Rush. Alex comes to life on the Electric and Acoustic Guitars and he also is a backing vocalist. Alex has written some books (not related to Rush) and he has opened a restaurant, The Orbit Room, 580 A College St. in Toronto, Canada. he has also produced a solo album, Victor.
Been watching Ben Steins Expelled for the past hour and I can now see why it upset Foster so. It’s filled with reference to God and Creation.
vagabond trader wrote:
all former republics have all the religions, and races in them. slovenia was the most homogeneous.
@ coldwarrior:
That is what I’m gathering from your fine posts.The variety of factions explains the volatility of the region.
@ Dolphin:
Next time you appear I will have a response to that.
@ song_and_dance_man:
***Gasp***
@ song_and_dance_man:
Look forward to it. I will try and check in, in the next couple of days.
coldwarrior wrote:
It’s long (almost 900 pgs) and pretty dry. But basically it’s about how states have morphed throughout history from Princely States, Kingly States, Territorial States, State-Nations, Nation-States and finally to the emergence of the Market-State. If you’re interested in the history of such things it should keep your attention. At any rate, you can skip all that if you’re not. Chapter 15 is what you’ll be interested in.
@ coldwarrior:
Yeah, it was called the Clinton Administration. I wasn’t a fan of daddy Bush, but he’d have been better than that son of a bitch.
@ vagabond trader:
the volatility becomes global
@ gulfloafer:
i’m gonna bet i’ve read worse!
@ coldwarrior:
Lemme guess, Wesley whatshisface and bubba bj.During that time we had a lot of intense stuff going on so my attention was not focused on world events.I do recall the pilot who was shot down and his obvious disgust at meeting bj,lol.
song_and_dance_man wrote:
That movie got me banned from LGF.
Well, counting the number of anti-stein threads in a day got me banned from LGF.
“Two in a day, eh?”
vagabond trader wrote:
Wesley Crusher?
http://jumpinginpools.blogspot.com/2009/12/steps-of-success-in-massachusetts.html
Brown 2010!
@ LanceKates:
Are you kidding me? Seriously???? lame-O
@ bellamags:
Oh come on, when is the last time you saw a wesley crusher reference out of me?
Besides…. there aren’t any star wars characters named wesley…
@ LanceKates:
C3PO’s brother was Wesley. Wesley and C3 PO.
well, to be honest, there is Wes Janson… that sorta counts.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard a convincing justification for the US involvement in the Balkans in the 1990′s. “The Serbs are being nasty” never cut it for me as a rationale. I mean, their opponents have always been nasty, too, and as CW points out, often much nastier.
The best I could figure out is that the Euro-elites were annoyed by the noise in the next room and, being Euro-weenies, needed the US to go get the rowdies to settle down.
@ LanceKates:
ha, I remember that day well. We knew what was coming and tried to persuade you to another topic. What I didn’t appreciate after the canning was the piling on afterwards by some. The nics that did that are lost in the blog trash heap of forgotten history.
@ wolfie:
Makes as much sense as anything I heard at the time.
Never take the side of Muslims in any conflict with Christians, Hindus, Jews, Buddhists, or even atheists.
Michael Savage wrote a nice article once for newsmax, detailing that the war in the Baltics was all about oil.
I believe he titled it “the oily tracks running through Kosovo”
Speranza wrote:
I wouldn’t take the side of the muzz in their fight with a pack of wild dogs. I’d join the mutts.
OT
As if we aren’t there already.
The Weblog Awards are way off schedule this year. There is no need to post the link again until the finalists are announced. For those interested, we will be Finalists big time, unless the (D)’s infiltrated the process.
@ Speranza:
I must admit how naive I was at the time. From the news (BBC–I was living in England at the time), I was ashamed of the Christians and sympathetic towards the Muslims.
I’m wiser now.
Doppelganger wrote:
Here
If you footnoted this, you could publish it everywhere.
Speranza wrote:
Right. They will step into your shoe and when they are done, throw it at you.
@ goddessoftheclassroom:
That was the whole point of the media coverage at the time.
chickadee wrote:
When I read history about the wars between the Mamelukes and the Mongols – I instinctively root for the Mongols.
goddessoftheclassroom wrote:
The BBC (aka The Biased Broadcasting Corporation)? Those ******* would take the side of the Stalin if he was at war with the West. Never trust anything from the BBC.
Speranza wrote:
Me too. i agree on principle. I won’t make any exceptions for the muzz. They need to prove something to me. I will not mortgage the farm for these bastards. Unlike Zero who will mortgage this country for them.
@ Speranza:
The coverage by the US networks was no better.
I actually did a study of the major networks’ evening news coverage during that period, coincidentally.
It was fascinating to look at it side-by-side, over a period of weeks, and see how many times the same video clips of poor refugees carrying all their worldly possessions on a donkey cart would turn up.
It was a total propaganda campaign.
chickadee wrote:
The Muslims need to be crushed and humiliated.
I just heard on the radio that Rush Limbaugh was taken to the hospital in Hawaii after chest pains and is in serious condition. Anyone hear anything about this?
Speranza wrote:
You’re the best dude. You always say what I’m thinking.
chickadee wrote:
Great minds yadda yadaa
Yes I heard tha Limbaugh was rushed to the hospital in Hawaii.
Runner wrote:
Please God, do NOT let this be true.
@ chickadee:
Apparently it is. KITV in Honolulu is reporting it:
Rush
Prayers for Rush.
headline is up on Drudge
Limbaugh taken to Hospital….serious condition!
@ Runner:
Of COURSE they have to put his prescription drug addiction problem in the story. Wth.
I am actually taking notes. Even printed out the map.
Here is my condensed version:
They made a real mess of Yugoslavia.
bellamags wrote:
Yeah, they have to get their shots in where they can. Bastards!
It’s also being tweeted on Twitter. And some blog commenting on the tweets compared the crazy left tweeters to the Pali streets shouting and passing out candy with joy at the 9/11 attacks hoping for the worst.
@ Runner:
Some on Facebook are already hinting at various conspiracy theories.
It’s insane how this is playing out. Very interesting………
@ bellamags:
I hope this will be much ado about nothing. I would love to hear Rush back from vacation saying “reports of my demise (influence-wise or literally) were greatly exaggerated” or something like that.
@ Runner:
me too.
these people in this area debate over
“Its pepper”!!
No
“Its fly shit”
No.
Pepper
Fly Shit
go for the guns
next day
Fly Shit.
Pepper.
guns
over and over
@ chickadee:
He still refuses to say “Islamic terrorism”.
C’mon Bo, we know you can do it. How about something easier- try “Radical Islam”.
Good article but you missed out on the whole Kraut angle. Croatia has been Germany’s catspaw in the region since before WWII and of course during the war the Croat fascist Ustashe were among Der Führer’s most fanatic allies.
The German intelligence service was aiding the Croats. Margaret Thatcher warned that Germany’s machinations with the Croats in breaking up Yugoslavia would lead to a bloodbath in the Balkans but Bush I didn’t listen and Clinton made the situation even worse.
I’ve been through Macedonia … it’s amazing, the country is essentially split in half by the Macedonian (Orthodox) / Albanian (Muslim) divide. Albanians are almost exclusively in the western half of the country. As you drive down the highway out of Skopje you see the proliferation of churches suddenly give way to minarets in every small town until you get to the Albanian border. It’s really quite stunning and not often remarked. I also found that Albanians in the country do not call themselves Macedonian at all. There was a mini-war fought in western Macedonia around 2001 between Albanian ethnics in the west and the Macedonian government over the formers’ right to have a university in the Albanian language established in Tetovo.
@ The Osprey:
i had to leave a lot out or these posts would get just too damn long.
i do like the german angle tho…thanks
The Osprey wrote:
oh…see part 1