Jack Murtha has died.
Congressman John Murtha Dead at 77
I know people have very deep feelings about this man, but can we please keep some civility in our comments? – thank you.
(thanks to Rodan for the tip from the road)
Tags: Jack Murtha
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We're not easily offended and don't want people to think they have to walk on eggshells around here (like at another place that shall remain nameless) but of course, there is a limit to everything.
Play nice!
RIP!
Prayers for the family.
Ninth level of Hell with Judas Iscariot. That is civil, as well as factual.
newsjunkie_ky wrote:
Ya right. Rest in HELL
Read somewhere that he was hospitalized after a laproscopic gall bladder removal went wrong, maybe a nicked intestine and then septic shock? Very bad way to go. Hope he made peace with his Maker. Hope his family can find comfort in good memories.
He was old. He’s dead. So is life.
He perfected being engaging in an unethical and egregious nepotism in abusing his power in office.
Since his cronies in congress couldn’t grow the balls to punish him , I can’t say I’m unhappy that his health finally has.
Sadly, the reality is that another piece of garbage will take his place and do the exact same things.
I wonder how the racist rednecks in western Pennsylvania will honor him.
Bill Jenkins wrote:
I’m too used to an edit button…. Ummm. I think the word “being” should’t be there.
My prayers, of course, for the family. No matter what you think of the man himself, he left people behind who are greived and saddened.
I don’t know what to say about a man who sold his honor for the accolades of the far left, American hating, lunatics.
The King of Pork.
For his services to his country as a marine I honor him, as for the rest the less said the better.
So, should we be more civil to him death than he was to our soldiers and Marines in life?
However, my initial thoughts for his family aside, his slander of 19 of our fine young fighting men is something no American should forgive.
@ father_of_10:
Well… being dead and all I don’t think he cares one way or the other.
Hopefully he came to his senses, abandoned his hate filled leftist political views and repented of his sins before death took him to meet his Creator.
I was just saying on the last thread (this comment was directed to #33 by Overlook):
I’m not comfortable with people bashing dead people.
I don’t have so much a problem if people are politely critical of the dead person’s views or actions, but when I see people being overboard with the vitriol, insults, and it turns into a flaming hate fest, I get uncomfortable with it.
We had a bit of that here in the thread about some journalist who died (Walter Cronkite, I think it was).
I’m sure his death from surgical complications will be one of those “crisis” situations that Rahm Twinkletoes Emmanuel won’t want to go to waste.
De mortuis nisi bonum.
Which is Latin for “Let me tell you what I really think after the funeral.”
Birth and death are awesome things.
@ CloudyDay:
I do not think that people (well some maybe) are bashing Murtha – they are pointing out the things that he said and did.
He attempted to convict that Haditha Marines before trial & refused to recant when they were exonerated.
Having said that he was a human being & served with honor as a Marine.
I wish him eternal peace.
He will face his maker and have to account for what he has done. Hopefully there will be a lot of Marines in attendance.
@ CloudyDay:
I took a quick peek over at Free Republic to see how the Freepers are responding (Jim Rob will not tolerate grave dancing). Best line I read was this:
“I wanted him beaten at the ballot box, but not in life.”
I am reminded of the orgasmic rejoicing at DU, KOS and probably the Swamp when reports of Rush Limbaugh’s death were greatly exaggerated. But of course, WE’RE the evil people, right?
Some Democratic ASSHOLE on Fox–I think Steve Cohn?–just made use of Murtha’s Death. When questioned about the lack of Tort Reform in the Dem’s Obamacare said something like well Murtha’s death was malpractice because something was nicked in his surgery and those people have to be sued?????The fruckin asshole is NO DR. but he is already determining that surgery on a old obesse man is malpractice and maybe not just one of those things. I hate some people. And for the record things happen when you work on human beings and they are mostly NOT malpractice!!!!!!!
He was a Marine. He served honorably under fire. End the story there. Work on the filling the seat with a better Representative.
@ CloudyDay:
I don’t see that dying absolves him of his crimes. The man was objectively a traitor. He betrayed this country and he betrayed the Marines to score points with the al Qaeda wing of the Democrat Party. There is no way to pretty that up.
I wonder if his family will request a Marine honor guard. I also wonder if, after his slander of the Haditha Marines, the request will be granted.
@ Poteen:
He’d have been better had he died in Vietnam.
@ Speranza:
Oh no, I haven’t so far seen anything ‘over the top’ tasteless about this.
I’m just saying that threads like these can bring out the worst in some folks, who do like to bash the dead to the point it makes me squirm.
I haven’t really seen any such bashing so far here at this blog, but I wouldn’t be surprised if we get a few such comments here (or see them at other blogs. I sometimes lurk at ‘Hot Air’ and other conservative blogs).
Although it’s usually the habit of people on the left to say very hateful things when a (conservative) person dies (or gets injured or sick).
Poteen wrote:
Yes I respect his service but he like Kennedy are poster boys who all who hang on in Congress way past their true usefulness as servants of the people.
Carolina Girl wrote:
It would be granted
Iron Fist wrote:
The guys he served with might disagree with you, whether they liked him as a politician or not.
After reading many of the thoughts on this death, I am wondering one thing: Is treason to country immoral in a religious way that would have you dammed?
(honest question!)
I would imagine as an ex Marine & Member of Congress, that request would be granted.
WrathofG-d wrote:
He really did not commit treason. He just was an asshole. Being an asshole is not yet a crime. Hell we elected on President
Murtha’s district went for McCain in 2008. My guess is, in light of the current political temperature, we may just see another R in the House.
@ Nevergiveup:
His balance sheet has a lot of red ink from his political career, offset some by his military service in his younger days. Kennedy, all red, all his life.
@ WrathofG-d:
Yes, if you swear an oath to your country. Also bearing false witness is a no no last I checked.
Martin Frost (D)–called Murtha a freind of mend and women in Uniform. Maybe in days long gone past but not anymore—and maybe you Martin Frost are also past your experiation date
Every time I heard him speak, and that was not many times, I saw what seemed to be a confused and conflicted man so steeped in Liberal surroundings that all he could do was echo his fellow Democrats. I did not dislike him, but was troubled that he had power in the direction this country took.
Poteen wrote:
But my point is they like many old giezers in Congress stay way to long
Nevergiveup wrote:
Ah, so he could have been a major A…um, not nice guy, and still be basking in the glory of G-d. Interesting thought.
vagabond trader wrote:
Now there is a very interesting point. Accordingly, he just might actually be in “hell” (assuming you believe that sort of thing), but then in that case, aren’t we all going there?
@ CloudyDay:
Sometimes people go over the top – that is one of the drawbacks about a blog.
@ Carolina Girl:
That’s Government health-care for ya!!
@ Poteen:
Hero in Vietnam (or at least served honorably), traitor in War on Terror, I guess whether it is best that he lived is determined by how you weigh one against the other. How many Marines and soldiers died or were injured because either they hesitated when they should have fired, or because al Qaeda terrorists took heart at his condemnation of our soldiers? No one knows, but that blood is on Murtha’s hands. Just as Kerry is responsible for his treasons and Dick Durbin (D-al Qaeda) is for his (Kennedy as well). Were it up to me, all four of them would die or have died in prison for their treason.
Nevergiveup wrote:
Very true. Some should never be there.
My mother had pancreatic cancer and had surgery. The doctors removed parts and pieces of pretty much all of her organs. They also removed bile ducts. Bile is poison, it continues to eat what ever it comes into contact with. Whether the drainage is outside the body or inside and it has nothing to do with malpractice. The gall bladder is a poisonous appendage and in someone as old as Murtha, he had a 50/50 chance that he would die. I truly hope that the good people of Murtha’s district do better in electing someone who represents the Constitution and loves this country, Murtha loved the pork.
@ RIX:
Yeah, I’m sure it would be. But I bet no one will be rushing to volunteer for it.
@ Iron Fist:
I never said it did.
That kind of criticism is fine with me.
I’m talking about people who rejoice or gloat about someone’s death, want to throw a party about it, who post mean spirited tirades, pepper them with vulgarities and the like.
I get uncomfortable with stuff such as people saying they’re thrilled and happy someone is dead, they want to spit on the guy’s corpse, they only wish he had died a slower, more painful death, wish it had only happened sooner, wish they could’ve knocked him off personally, they hope he’s burning in hell – that kind of rhetoric.
WrathofG-d wrote:
When did he bear false witness under oath?
WrathofG-d wrote:
In the Christian view the answer is yes. Paul wrote this.
Of course Paul was referring to governments that are based on sound code like those of the Romans or Jews in his time.
First Kennedy, then Murtha. Robt Byrd has to be getting his affairs in order.
@ Nevergiveup:
Material aid and comfort to the enemy in a time of war is treason. Do you not think al Qaeda drew comfort and support from his baseless accusations against our troops? Were he an ordinary citizen, doubtless the answer would be “No”, but he was a powerful congressman. “Congressman calls Marines ‘Murderers’” undoubtably resonated through the Mohammedan world, and yes, that makes it treason.
snowcrash wrote:
Doesn’t the KKK have lawyers on retainer for that?
Nevergiveup wrote:
That is a vagabond trader quote. You’ll have to ask her/him, but I think (s)he was stating that he made an oath as representative, and violated that oath through his actions. I really shouldn’t speak for someone else though.
That all being said, I’m not sure the “thou shall not bare false witness” only applied to when one was “under oath”.
@ WrathofG-d:
He swore an oath to serve America and made false accusations against our troops.What G-d wants to do with that is above my pay grade.
Iron Fist wrote:
No not legally. Maybe morally, but not legally. Again just makes him a flameing asshole and a few other choice terms I can think of
Ah, now Kerry is still alive & fair game.
That VC lovin , lying traitor.
Kerry will never be his own worst enemy as long as I ‘m alive.
#27 @ Nevergiveup:
According to a family member of mine who was in the military for many years and who met Murtha on several occasions, Murtha did not really “serve” in Vietnam,not how most people think of “serving.”
This family member explained to me that Murtha got himself a cushy, safe position sitting in an office at a desk for several months in Vietnam, so that he could tell people he “served in Vietnam.”
The idea was for people to assume that Murtha was out getting shot in jungles by VC, all the while he was actually sitting at a desk in an office over there.
@ Nevergiveup:
I don’t know, but he does have the distinction of being the longest serving Senator. Half century of uninterrupted service. LOL
@ snowcrash:
If my recollection is correct, Byrd is too ill and weak to even attend sessions in the Senate at present. One of the criticisms leveled at the Republicans standing firm in the health care debate was that poor Robert Byrd had to rise from his sickbed and attend the Senate to vote for cloture. If that is the case, then Byrd should retire and allow a replacement to be selected. As of now, the people of West Virginia are not getting the full representation to which they are entitled. I’m wagering the governor of West Virginia or the legislature is Republican and therefore Byrd won’t risk a Republican appointee to take his seat.
@ song_and_dance_man:
Excellent, explaination from that point of view. It really raised more questions for me, but I don’t want to go too off topic.
So it seems that from the Christian p.o.v., yes if it could be proven that Murtha (or others) “rebelled” or were treasonous to their “authority”, that would land you in hell.
vagabond trader wrote:
His opinion of how our troops acted was just that an opinion. As someone once said, “opinions are like assholes, we all have on”. And this asshole was old man who’s time had come and gone long ago.
Speranza wrote:
indeed. telling the truth about what someone said and did is considered a smear by the LEFT.
Iron Fist wrote:
But he gave no material aid or comfort. Material comfort in my mind could be giving them shelter or if he passed on information that aided the enemy. I’m not sure accusing our troops of murder is tantamount to treason.
I just have one thing to say and it applies to Murtha and Kennedy.
My view is, God sure is busy taking out the trash these days.
CloudyDay wrote:
I rerally don’t know, but from I understand he served with distinction
Wasn’t Murtha one of those who claimed honors, etc., that he did not actually attain? I’m trying to remember.
I think that a commnading officer would consider a request to be left off of Murthas Honor Guard.
It would not be like Regans, where it was an honor also for the
troops.
snowcrash wrote:
Well he was only a congress creature and I am not so sure he was the longest serving, but maybe
@ Nevergiveup:
Had he done it during the Second World War, they would have thrown him in prison I suspect. I doubt that you can find of a single incidence of a Republican (them being the opposition Party then) in WWII cleaving to the Nazis or the Japanese the way Murtha, Kerry, Kennedy, and Durbin (D-al Qaeda) have. All four of them should have been charged with treason, but we are weak on that today. They reserve that for people who “deny” global warming or disagree with the lord god Obama these days.
@ Carolina Girl:
Excellent last point. The lesson of MA is still fresh.
Carolina Girl wrote:
I don’t think so. He was also a Marine DI at Paris Island. I don’t think they give that job to desk jockies
@ CloudyDay:
why don’t you wait to see if anything you judge offensive is written before you wring your hands?
@ song_and_dance_man:
Sheesh, if you wish to accuse anyone of “treason”, maybe it should be those who reelected him even after he made those comments.
Iron Fist wrote:
No, but they should have been thrown the fuck out of congress
@ song_and_dance_man:
How long did Tokyo Rose spend in prison? She was no Congressman or Senator who, I would argue, has a greater duty in such regard.
I just can’t come up with any sympathy for him. I’m just wondering abt. people who lose their integrity in life.
Iron Fist wrote:
Well, he’s dead now. It’s over for him. His shots at the Haditha Marines pretty much missed.
Durbin, Kennedy and even Kerry (his “service” is a lie) don’t have any thing like it.
Not defending the crooked politician, But the Marine, yea.
Iron Fist wrote:
She was an American Citizen who did give direct aid and comfort to the enemy in every sense of the word. Whether she was forced to by the Japanese is another story
WrathofG-d wrote:
wouldn’t that depend on the country? eg, the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto weren’t traitors against their countries of residence. a more contemporary situation would be that the few Jews and Christians left in Iran wouldn’t be traitors if they did something against their government, imo. i’m sure there are better examples than the ones i gave though. Like our own founding fathers.
@ Nevergiveup:
Not that I consider Wikipedia the best source, but this is what it says about his Vietnam service:
Assuming he didn’t get them the way Kerry did, two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star with “V” device doesn’t indicate someone who spent all his time behind a desk.
Murtha became a drill instructor at Parris Island and was selected for Officer Candidate School at Quantico, Virginia. Murtha was then assigned to the Second Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, North Carolina.
Murtha remained in the Marine Forces Reserve, and ran a small business, Johnstown Minute Car Wash (which still operates in the West End section of Johnstown.) He also attended the University of Pittsburgh on the G.I. Bill, and received a degree in economics. Murtha later took graduate courses from the Indiana University of Pennsylvania. Murtha married his wife Joyce on June 10, 1955. They have three children and live in Johnstown.
Murtha left the Marines in 1955. He remained in the Reserves after his discharge from active duty until he volunteered for service in the Vietnam War, serving from 1966 to 1967, serving as a battalion staff officer (S-2 Intelligence Section), receiving the Bronze Star with Valor device, two Purple Hearts and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry. He retired from the Marine Corps Reserve as a Colonel in 1990, receiving the Navy Distinguished Service Medal
Seems distinguished to me. So lets not rag on his Military service
I’ll say something nice about Murtha.
His congressional career is over
@ Nevergiveup:
I wasn’t sure – I’ll have to do some research. I know that there was something linking John Kerry with another member of Congress who was, shall we say, inflating his resume.
@ lobo91:
I agree with you even if you beat me by seconds
Looks like it was “little Dick” Durbin I was thinking of.
Source
They (all four mentioned above) gave both aid and comfort (in the form of propaganda victories) to the Jihad in Iraq specifically, and around the world more generally. That is treason by the definition quoted. Also, as I said, their position both enhanced the propaganda value of the aid and comfort given and the responsibility they had not to do as they have done.
Carolina Girl wrote:
I don’t think his is to inflated. He may not have been out humping in the field all day with the grunts but his service seems distinquished to me
For what it’s worth,
Murtha’s War Hero Status Called Into Question
By Marc Morano and Randy Hall
January 13, 2006
A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha’s former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts
@ Iron Fist:
Tokyo Rose did give comfort to the enemy by broadcasting sensitive info about our troops. Clearly treasonous behavior since the Japs were getting the info from a real traitor, but one cannot equate what the Allied traitor did in giving the Japanese the info for Rose, with John Murtha.
Murtha should have been forced to resign in shame for the Haditha comments but prosecuting him for treason would never get off the ground.
#30 @ WrathofG-d:
I don’t know if treason specifically would be regarded as a sin, maybe so, since it would seem to be a form of deception or lying. The New Testament also tells believers to respect and obey secular authorities.
(If I’m not mistaken, there are passages in both the Old and New Testaments instructing believers to keep any oaths they make.)
I just know that the Bible says that all people are sinners, so all are condemned to hell (Romans 3:9-22)
@ Nevergiveup:
The Marines don’t tend to pass out awards the way some of the other branches do.
I doubt that he got his Purple Hearts for self-inflicted rice shrapnel injuries.
@ CloudyDay:
I wish it had happened before he had pronounced our Marines guilty.
no one forces you to read the things that make you uncomfortable.
Kirly wrote:
These were the individuals I thought of first when I read Song & Dance Man’s answer above actually.
lobo91 wrote:
And in any event his Military Record is his Military Record and his Congressional Record is his Congressional Record and we should not get the 2 confused
Is the Murtha Tribute Memorial thread up and running yet at 1.0?
I will also note that it says volumes about the man that we are debating whether his actions were bad enough to constitute the legal definition of treason. That definition is somewhat slippery. I am reasonably certain that any Republican who had done as the aforementioned during WWII would have been removed from office (i.e. impeached) and tried for treason. They might not have convicted them. I can’t say for sure what a jury would have done.
Morally, though, there is no question that he betrayed this country and the Marines. I’ll let that suffice as his epitaph.
I wanted him out of Congress, but *not that way*. I’d like to extend my condolences to the Murtha family, best wishes for a faiir election for his replacement, and to close with a remembrance of his service in the U.S. Marine Corps…
@ song_and_dance_man:
He should have been booted in 1982 after the Abscam scandal.By this time whatever honor he displayed as a Marine was receding in the rearview mirror.
@ lobo91:
I wonder what would have prompted Murtha to make that Purple Heart comment. It doesn’t seem the sort of statement one would make in the course of normal conversation — I’d like to see it in context.
@ Kirly:
Huh?
Article Three – Section Three of the Constitutionb
That’s the money line for the act of treason. It’s not Aid or Comfort, it’s Aid and Comfort. The Comfort comes from the Aid. Now Murtha may have been a senseless reprobate and a shame for all Patriots for his asinine comments on Haditha, but it was not treason.
Quick OT: Does anyone else think the new layout of the Jerusalem Post is almost unreadable?
91 @ Kirly:
Huh again?
And this especially makes no sense:
@ CloudyDay:
I just know that the Bible says that all people are sinners, so all are condemned to hell
Just what are you implying here? That we are all going to hell no matter what so we can’t pretend we are any better than Murtha?? WTF??
Dow Says Goodbye to 10000 as Banks Slide
And a big thank-you shout out to Obama from the poor house
@ song_and_dance_man:
Just curious, then. What would you consider treason? It is debatable that Tokyo Rose gave much of aid or comfort to the Japanese, for example. Her mission was to demoralize our troops, but I’ve never seen any evidence that she was particularly successful at that. OTOH, Walter Cronkite almost single-handedly revived the NVA after the Tet disaster, although he was never charged for his treason (if you consider it treason). Murtha, to my mind, falls somewhere in between these two.
@ song_and_dance_man:
As much as I despised the man, what Murtha and his comrades did doesn’t rise to the level of treason, especially for a member of Congress. They generally can’t be prosecuted for statements made as part of their duties:
The only way a sitting member of Congress could be charged with treason is for actively working for the other side (spying, explicitly producing propaganda materials for them, etc.).
Like any other crime, there is still an element of intent that has to be proven in a treason case. I’m not aware of any evidence that Murtha was actually trying to help the other side win. His goal was for us to withdraw our troops, which isn’t the same thing.
@ Nevergiveup:
I don’t get what they are trying to do. Their old layout wasn’t so hot either, way too many pop ups.
Anybody been over to the dark side to see any Murtha tributes?
@ NoThreat2U:
My post was in response to a theological inquiry by Wrath of God as to if treason was a sin and if so could it send someone to hell or not. I wasn’t even really thinking about Murtha when I formulated my reply to Wrath.
It looks to me as though you’re reading something into my response that was not there. I’m not even fully sure what you’re referring to.
@ lobo91:
Well said. And if i may offer a suggestion, we should keep a close eye on Keith Ellison from Min. Just saying.
Thoughts & prayers to the Murtha family.
vagabond trader wrote:
That sums it up perfectly.
@ Carolina Girl:
I agree. Without context, that statement could mean anything.
I’ve heard plenty of people say that they didn’t feel like they deserved awards or accolades, without implying that they received them dishonestly.
Someone asked about this so I went to see and oh yeah…here it is…
Two pitiful sobs who know nothing of military.One even uses Semper Fi and that’s f***** fighting words to me to see this name in vain.
104 Semper Fi
Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:08:22pm replyquote 2downupreport
John Murtha stood up for his beliefs when in uniform and later as Rep. John Murtha. Can’t ask any more than that. Thank you, John.
127 albusteve Mon, Feb 8, 2010 1:32:11pm replyquote 4
down
up
report
big John is gone…a tough guy in a fight, and I’d share my foxhole and then my beer with him…politics isn’t
kansas wrote:
they are quoting that emminent political observer and all around groovy person Meagen McCain on her thoughts on the World and all things anti-conservative
@ Iron Fist:
From what I’ve read and understand treason is helping the enemy with money, goods or info that jeopardizes our sovereignty, acts of war or the safety of our citizens.
I would consider what B. Hussein has been doing in outreaching to Muslims more dangerously close to treason than what Murtha had to say about those 19 soldiers. Really,….bowing to the Saudi King hinted of obeisance and subordination.
CloudyDay wrote:
@ lobo91:
So if, on the day after D-Day, a Republican had gone on the radio and broadcast what an awful disaster D-Day was, and how we were murdering innocent Nazi soldiers, you think it would have just been shrugged off? Loyal opposition, then, so it never happened. Disloyal opposition now, and you have Murtha, Kennedy, Kerry, and Durbin (D-al Qaeda). IMHO, the republicans should have made a lot more noise about it.
@ CloudyDay:
Well since the thread is about Murtha, I figured that was what your comment meant. And the tone of your other posts … seems as though you are waiting for one of us to go off the rails with a Hallelujah the fucker is dead. Chillax..it’s not gonna happen here.
@ NoThreat2U:
Now you are tempting me…
@ chickadee:
Hope the Iraq vet who ran against him gives the seat another go. Cannot recall his name.
@ Iron Fist:
Take. Deep. Breaths. Slowly……slowly……
@ Iron Fist:
Cronkite was expressing his own (no matter how ill-informed) opinion on the effect of the Tet Offensive. I don’t recall him waving a North Vietnamese flag, or saluting Ho Chi Minh, while on camera. Again, it’s a matter of intent, not what the other side may do with your statement.
A better example is Jane Fonda. I honestly believe that she should have been prosecuted, because she actually went to North Vietnam and posed for propaganda materials.
I think instead of typing colon twisted colon to make the evil face it should be colon Iron Fist colon.
WrathofG-d wrote:
Ah, but there are also apostolic scriptures which stress that the Christian must refuse to obey any law that clearly goes against the law of God. The most obvious example here is the Roman laws requiring worship and sacrifice directed to pagan gods or the emperor.
In this, the Christians were following the long-standing practice, theology, and prophetic tradition of the Jews, and particularly of those living under Gentile rule.
The question of guilt depends on a whole host of factors:
What law or oath did you break?
Why did you break it?
What forethought did you give to the consequences, both your personal ones and societal ones, of breaking the law? Were you reckless in your disregard?
If you ace those answers, there’s no sin.
If you flunk, the next question is, “Do you sincerely repent?”
Murtha loved money more than Country.
Someone said this was a call for obamacare, which is silly since murtha had the best health insurance possible, better even than cadillaccare.
kansas wrote:
Yep, and Chuckie began the comments with a threat.
@ Iron Fist:
You also have to look at it in context.
A lot of things were different in 1944. We rounded up hundreds of thousands of US citizens and put them in internment camps with no evidence that they’d done anything wrong. We also had J. Edgar Hoover in charge of the FBI, sitting on illegally obtained files full of dirt on every elected and appointed official in the US government.
I doubt that any politician of either party would have been stupid enough to make such statements at that time, under those circumstances.
@ NoThreat2U:
Oh yeah, remember this.
http://www.military.com/news/article/March-2009/murtha-award-sparks-vet-outrage.html
Iron Fist wrote:
Folks, should I come up with another segment of “Meanwhile in Download City” to commemorate this occasion?
@ Bunk X:
It is also coded to really mean. Only praise for the left will be tolerated.
lobo91 wrote:
You got that right.
@ Iron Fist:
HA! Love it!
@ Macker:
Yes!
#119 @ NoThreat2U:
If you followed the context of the conversation (I even quoted Wrath in my reply), you could tell what I was talking about.
Wrath started the tangent in his post of #30.
Sometimes people use the original blog entry to jump off and discuss other topics, and that was the case here.
NoThreat2U wrote,
I’m entitled to convey whatever tone I wish.
I hardly ever post to this blog, and this is the main reason why.
There are several “hot heads” who jump down my throat, even over trivial reasons. I am probably one of the nicest people you’ll ever meet, rarely respond in kind (even in the face of hatred), but come on here, make an innocuous, harmless post, and get ripped on for it.
NoThreat2U wrote,
Well, that has already kinda happened.
In addition, someone who comes across as being a bit on the psychotic side has flamed me (twice, no less, in one thread) in somewhat rambling, incoherent posts – and that merely for expressing my views about decorum in the face of someone’s death.
NoThreat2U wrote,
Actually, after I posted my first post or two expressing concerns about it, I later saw a few comments I consider pretty harsh.
Carolina Girl wrote:
They were particularly vile over the death of Tony Snow.
@ Macker:
Yes please.
lobo91 wrote:
She should have been prosecuted. Instead, she got an Oscar and thunderous applause from the In-Crowd.
(And some people wonder why the US is in trouble.)
OK back to the living danger:
http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2010/02/negotiations-without-preconditions-for.html
Grimcargo wrote:
This quote is a perfect example of “nothingism”. Everyone who anyone remembers “stood up for [their] beliefs…”, but is that really good enough and all one can ask for? Because if it is, and well, you know who are we to judge, that excuses the behaviors of Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Jim Jones, etc.
So it doesn’t get confused, my point is not to compare Murtha to any of the above, but to mock and disprove this stupid “nothingism” attitude of much of our society that everything is equal, and you’re cool if you just stand up for what YOU believe in (see it doesn’t matter if what you believe in is bad, because there is no bad, because we cannot judge, its just good you stood up)
I don’t agree. I do judge and it would be better if those mentioned above actually DID NOT stand up for what they believed in.
@ CloudyDay:
Oh please you big sissymary. Noone is jumping down your throat. EVERYONE here has agreed not to post rude comments of glee over this man’s death. You keep baiting with “yeah, but it seems like…..” I told you, it aint gonna happen here. If Iron Fist didn’t do it…no one else will. And yes you may convey any tone you please. I never said you couldn’t. The chillax was in regards to you waiting for the hammer to drop.
We are all diminished when a fellow human dies. That said I won’t miss him in political scene at all. Condolences to the family, and I hope he found the Lord on his deathbed.
Otherwise, good riddance to him.
@ CloudyDay:
and that is the problem. you were wringing your hands for two threads about comments that might be written. then you call people hot heads or some such. and now you get to say “SEE!“. you are just one self-fulfilling prophecy,. aren’t you?
i won’t even bother getting started on your “huh?” response to someone who quoted you!
@ WrathofG-d:
An excellent point.
@ CloudyDay:
but you are not the blog police! so stop acting as if you are! if your oh-so-sensitive sensibilities can’t tolerate reading certain comments, then don’t. but don’t lecture the rest of us about what you judge to be offensive.
I think CloudyDay is a lefty plant. I shall forthwith refer to him/her as Ficus.
@ NoThreat2U:
and I shall forthwith refer to Wrath as him/her.
wolfie wrote:
Thank you. But don’t you mean “Excellent point, I’m so glad you stood for something”…
vagabond trader wrote:
Well, for the record, I prefer “he/she” because well, you know its just so progressive, and hip these days.
Macker wrote:
Tom Hayden went with her and interrogated prisoners of war. He helped cause them incredible distress.
http://www.amazon.com/POWs-Story-2801-Days-Hanoi/dp/0449000990/ref=cm_pdp_rev_itm_title_3
http://www.soft-vision.com/hanoi/larson/bio_6.htm
http://www.theodoresworld.net/archives/2008/09/learning_the_ropes_at_the_hano.html
#142 @ <a href="#comment-265693" title="Go to comment of this
:Oh please you big sissymary. Maybe you’re already aware of this (or just do not care), but I am a lady.
I am not a man. (I take it from the ’sissymary’ reference that you think I’m a male who is not behaving manly or tough enough.)
In light of the recent Tim Tebow abortion advertisement discussions I’ve seen here and at other blogs, I’m starting to doubt some of the comments I’m seeing by conservative males.
So many conservative men insist that they treat women with respect and would never insult or hurt a woman, etc., but that, sadly, has not been my experience many times at conservative blogs, including this thread today (and in previous, older threads).
NoThreat2U wrote,
I disagree. You even started out this post with ad hominem (“sissy mary”). And you missed posts such as #91 above?
I’ve been treated disrespectfully, and I don’t just mean in regards to this thread, but in older threads pertaining to other topics at this blog.
NoThreat2U wrote,
I’ve already seen a few comments I consider rude or out of line.
One individual even went out of his way to mock my concerns and to go out of his way to express happiness over Murtha’s death (see post #91).
NoThreat2U wrote,
I’m not “baiting.” My views on what constitutes unacceptable behavior / words in response to someone’s death are clearly different from those of others here.
I get sick to my stomach when I see liberals gloating, giggling and heaping scorn on sick or dead conservatives. I would hope that conservatives wouldn’t behave like that when a highly disliked liberal gets injured or dies.
As a reminder: I rarely post to this blog, and when I do, it’s usually only to post a link to a news story or two.
This is one reason I’ve never understood why some people here blow a gasket and bite my head off when I do bother to participate. If I was posting here every day in every thread, I could maybe understand it.
I speak no ill of the dead…so let the dead bury the dead
Hmm… Looks like the flamewar’s dying down a bit. This is good.
I said my piece back in #96, and have little further to add.
#146 @ Kirly:
You’ve hassled me before in older threads (at least once), and you’ve done so at least three times in this thread, with quasi incoherent, illogical ramblings.
You seem to have a bit of an obsession with me for some reason I cannot fathom, which is all the more strange considering I rarely post at this blog.
You’re kind of creeping me out.
Kirly said,
I never said I was.
I am, however, permitted to express my opinions at this blog, just like you are.
Please consider taking your own advice: if your delicate sensibilities are upset by my posts, please stop reading (or commenting) on them.
Kirly wrote,
I’m a decent, caring, devout Christian woman who has good ethics. ~That is considered having “oh so sensitive sensibilites” is it?
Kirly wrote,
In a format like this, where one has to scroll down a page, it’s a little difficult for me to ignore comments I would object to.
Also, how can I know if I find a post’s content offensive unless I read it?
By the time I’ve read something and formed an opinion about it, I cannot “un read” it. So some of your advice on this point (how to avoid material I find offensive) has been impossible to follow.
Kirly said,
Again, I am entitled to my views like anyone else, and I will express them if I want to. That is not “lecturing.” If anything, I’ve only been explaining my view and defending my right to express it, not “lecturing” anyone. You and one or two others have been “lecturing” me, however.
Is the ficus a martyr troll?
Testing…
That is all…
@ Bunk X:
Was that a reference to me? I hope not. I’m not a troll.
I’ve posted to this blog since it very first started.
I usually don’t post here because some of the other posters that joined in recent months have anger management issues, and I normally shy away from confrontation.
CloudyDay wrote:
All in fun. Shoulda hadda sarc tag.
Wrote this at PJM. No since repeating myself.
————————-
Like most men, Murtha was a dichotomy of good and evil, his service noble and his last years of public service pathetic and self-serving. Like many in Congress, I assume he started with good intent, and being of weak character begin to believe in his own power and enrichment.
Unfortunately, what I will remember of John Murtha was not his service, but the fact he was the public thief who pandered for votes, a weak constituency he represented who did not hold the man accountable while damaging the country for their own ill gains, and Murtha’s libelous charges against innocent men – an egregious misuse of power. The fact Murtha was granted immunity makes the sins all the more unforgiving for mortal men.
But also like all of us, justice is eventually served. And whatever the verdict, today Murtha received his just due.
@ song_and_dance_man:
Very true. Because in governments run by such as Herod [if it can be called a government] the Magi did not follow Herod’s orders.
@ WrathofG-d:
Well, if we’re going to be technical, ALL have sinned and deserve Hell, but the free gidt of Grace, through Christ covers our sin so we are worthy.
What matters is not if he committed treason (what are laws of men compared to those of God?) But whether or not his faith was true.
Only way we’ll know is wheb we get there, bud.
Goodbye_Natalie wrote:
Yes…yes he did.
@ Bunk X:
bit too lefty for me. i shall do my best to ignore it from now on because apparently disagreeing is attacking or going after or whatever.
By not reading carefully and checking the translations, many Christians have given people over the years the wrong sense or definition of hell. There are actually hells but the translations have pooled them into one.
CloudyDay is no troll or lefty, and they have the same right to post their thoughts as anyone else. It is silly (at best) and hypoceritical (at worst) to engage in your right to voice your opinion in an effort to silence ot trash them for doing the same, especially when their opinion is to not grossly trash the dead.
@ LanceKates:
I agree. Sometimes we all leave too much implicit when we type a blurb and are surprised when people don’t get exactly what we’re trying to convey. I’m guilty of this. Whether agreeing or disagreeing we just need to take the time to clarify and not amp up.
On confrontation.
Hard to avoid on the internet, even harder when disscussing John Murtha and John Kerry.
I myself served in Vietnam, based at monkey mountain Da Nang, 1966 to 1969. Bunked at the MASH at China Beach across from the Marine Helo port so’s Gen. Walt and others could send us to install the sensors
to count the NVA and how many guns they had on which truck or figure
out how many were on which trail getting ready to meet up with some other group of 1,000 and attack say Lang Vieh Specical Forces camp outside Kah Shan camp up on the DMZ together with did they have tanks or not. Well we did find tank tracks, we took photos of them, sent them to a Marine photo review place in Da Nang, where some say Murtha worked some. They told us we were nuts NO NVA TANKS in Viet Nam any where. Two days later tanks were used to over run Lang Vieh camp.
Murtha being an officer did get a nice bunk in Da Nang, he did get to shop at the PX, he did get good chow, he did get helo rides, he did get Purple Hearts, he did get awards and citations too.
Some mean ass’s call it rear operations duty, some say it does not matter. Some say inserts at sundown in Laos for 7 day stays suck.
Me if I were in Iraq, walking point at night in Haditha and got in a gun fight and lived to tell the tale, myself I would not like some one who did not hear the little hissing sounds of the near miss to tell me shit about that moment in time. But thats just me, I made it back only because I am one mean hard ass sob.
like that
He was the first democrat I ever voted against when I was in college. He was my congressman. Never cared much for him.
Major John P Murtha,
As a Marine Officer, I salute you.
Semper Fi.
Vietnam Veterans Database
Name:————-MURTHA JOHN P
Branch:———--MARINE CORPS
Rate:————-O04
Rank:————-MAJOR
MOS:————--0302
MOS Title:——--Infantry Officer
Entered:———-630901
Service Number:—O-59862
State:————PENNSYLVANIA
Race:————-CAUCASIAN
As a politician, I will remain silent.
@ taxfreekiller @ 167:
Hey TFK, when were you at Khe Sanh Lang Vei TAOR.
I know all the survivors of the Feb 6-7 ‘68 NVA attack on Lang Vei.
That night at Khe Sanh Marine Combat base we were on 100% alert, My gun squad manned the bunker facing the trash dump road waiting for tanks to come up the road, they never came, the SF boys took care of most of them that night.
@ Kirly:
I’m a conservative – but one with manners, maybe that’s what has you confused.
@ LanceKates:
Thank you, Lance.
I really don’t mind at all if people criticize this Murtha guy’s politics or views, and I never asked (or expected) that anyone be censored for criticizing the guy. I actually agree with all of the critical remarks I’ve seen of him so far.
I was raised to be a considerate person (my Mom was very sweet, and I usually take after her), and as a Christian, I just don’t feel right about using vulgar language, being mean-spirited or hateful, and it makes me uneasy to see other people doing it to whomever (even a dead liberal politician).
in, about, around, up and down, over at and behind and in front of , went by there when the seabee’s were building the bunkers, we stole some cement from them to build us a hidie hole of our own
attached to igloo white as tech, had Korean “civilians” attach as
body guards to keep us on the job makeing elecrtonics of the day work in rain, with bombs going off, and the Koreans being a bit twitchey waiting on us to get the thing up and running and tested so’s the
big boys would allow us to grab on the the iron ladders hanging out the back of the helo’s….mostly installed sensors, made the sonic bouys that had been towed behind destroyers to locate russian subs to look like trees so’s the tech wizz kids in Thiland could tell if it was a bycycle, a truck or just a heard of monkeys chasing the hot female of the day, went all over I Corps and west most of the time we were sort of illegal aliens without jobs on the local market, did not like Co Roc area at all myself…
we got to see the trucks running with lights on during LBJ’s “bombing halts” picked up a Captins Mast over that moment, looked just to inviting , after a couple of recoiless rounds they did at least turn the truck lights out…@ Beltfed:
I agree with beltfed…As a decorated war veteran, I salute John Murtha’s service to the United States and to the Marines. Semper Fi, sir!
As far as Representative John Murtha’s DISservice to his country, that speaks for itself, and needs no editorial comment from me.
Rest in Peace.
He’s dead. He’s now wormfood. End of Eulogy.
@ CloudyDay:
Cloudy, remember that when people trash you: Consider the source.
People will trash you when you suggest civility because many hide behind internet personas in order to enjoy a lack of civility.
Much easier to say “F THAT F’N KID SCREWING BASTARD!” when you are online and invisible to anyone who would do anything or be able to think less of you personally.
So, when someone trashes you for suggesting civility: consider the source.