The situation regarding the Toyota throttle control controversy has officially crossed over into the Twilight Zone. The situation itself, of course, is a potentially serious situation, that is apparently being taken seriously by Toyota Motors. It involves what appears to be a “sticky gas pedal”. I put “sticky” in quotes, because being one of the first electronic (“drive-by-wire“) systems out, there’s some question over whether there is a conventional mechanical problem, as Toyota clearly thought when they started fixing floor mats, or if it’s a more elusive electronic bug.
Theories abound: magnets, radar, and of course, no theory is complete if it doesn’t involve cell phones. Which brings up this bit of weirdness: Test: Toyota electronics go haywire, car careens out of control.
As congressional hearings into Toyota’s recalls begin today, ABC News aired a report last night that is sure to figure into the proceedings. It purports to show how an automotive mechanics instructor was able to wire a Toyota Avalon so that it would roar away on its own in a classic case of unintended acceleration.
The point was show that Toyota’s electronics, not the floor mats jamming against accelerators or sticky pedals, would cause the acceleration problem. Toyota officials adamantly denied the electronics are to blame. See the report by clicking here. Meanwhile, the debate over electromagnetic interference continues.
I’m not impressed by his resistance box; I’m astonished by the stupidity of all of this. Of course, when you get inside of these things and start dicking with the wiring, you can make it take off! And guess what? I can hook a coat hanger up to the throttle on an old carb and do the same thing! But coathangers aren’t as techy looking to idiots in the media as resistance substitution boxes (which have been around longer than I’ve been alive, btw).
No. Shit. Sherlock. Dicking with the wiring makes it do stuff it wouldn’t otherwise do. Next up: exclusive: hitting your head against a concrete wall may be hazardous to your health, and hurts.
And if this wasn’t stupid enough, the fact that it can be an electronic problem doesn’t prove that it is an electronic problem. It certainly may be one, but this demonstration doesn’t prove anything that wasn’t already plainly obvious to anyone who has ever built a Heathkit.
Welcome to Friday’s with the ‘hammer. Dr. K. correctly points out that there is no fail proof product and that we have to balance risks and rewards, safety and danger in an industrial age of mass produced products. I do remember back in the late 1960′s when the government removed cyclamates from soft drinks because they were thought to produce cancers in studies of mice, until years later they admitted that for humans it would be the equivalent of drinking 100 cans a day of diet soft drinks!
by Charles Krauthammer
Amazingly, the congressional hearings on Toyota were relatively civilized. Apart from some inevitable theatrical hectoring, the questioning was generally respectful, the emotions controlled. This was all the more remarkable given the drama of some of the testimony, such as that offered by a tearful Rhonda Smith, who recounted how, in her runaway Lexus, she had called her husband because “I wanted to hear his voice one more time.”
Such wrenching and compelling stories might impel you to want to string up the first Toyota executive you find. But the issue here is larger and highly complex.
[...]
The question is: How do you distinguish the idiosyncratic failure from the systemic — for example, the single lemon that came off the auto assembly line versus an intrinsic problem inherent in that model’s engineering? How do you separate one patient’s physiology producing a drug side effect versus an intrinsic problem with a drug that makes it unacceptably dangerous?
Consider the oddity of those drug commercials on television. Fifteen seconds of the purported therapeutic effort, followed by about 45 seconds of a rapidly muttered list of horrific possible side effects. When the ad is over, I can’t remember a thing about what the pill is supposed to do, except perhaps cause nausea, liver damage, projectile vomiting, a nasty rash, a four-hour erection and sudden death. Sudden death is my favorite because there is something comical about it being a side effect. What exactly is the main effect in that case? Relief from abdominal bloating?
And how many sudden deaths does it take until we say: “Enough,” and pull the drug off the market?
[...]
Read the rest here: Toyota and the Price of Modernity
► Hot LinksTags: Toyota Throttle Problem
Toyota and the Price of Modernity by Charles Krauthammer
speranza/snork…
the 1800slot for tonight is open if you would like to move the hammer over there…thats kinda where it usually goes…i moved my post outta that slot hours ago for the hammer
Oops I did not see that m had already linked to it. Krauthammer makes some good points as usual in that we have to choose between risks and rewards in a modern technological, industrial age.
Aren’t the executives supposed to commit hari-kari for bringing shame upon the company?
@ Speranza:
It’s up in the thread!
@ coldwarrior:
M Combined them, same subject. Plus tonight’s a riot!
@ Rodan:
Yeah I did not notice it it. Sorry.
I read in one of those car advice columns about a lady whose car stopped steering because a computer chip went. That’s – no pun intended – an accident waiting to happen. A pretty stupid setup. At least if a power steering belt went you could muscle the thing over if you were too dumb to check the belts regularly.
Memories of run-away Audi’s from back in the day. Back then I always suspected driver error.
I had a 1974 MGB, my big fat feet would sometimes grab the gas pedal as I was braking, it was kinda freaky cause my initial reaction was to just push on the brake harder which caused the gas pedal to be pushed harder. Good thing I had some road room when it first happened.
Not sure what the current problem with Toyota is. I recall back in the late 80′s early 90′s Intel had a chip that would error after every billionth calculation of so, I wonder if Toyota has a chip like that in the electronic system.
@ Speranza:
You are going to die tonight!
Ha ha ha ha, it’s so funny!
@ bar:
Coul be possible.
Rodan wrote:
thats fine, the 1800est slot is still open.
i moved mine to Saturday AM
@ bar:
i feel your pain…i had a 79mgb
And who could forget Alar? Meryl Streep was crying about what we were supposedly doing to our children, and yet it turned out the risk was no worse than these cyclamates Speranza wrote about. By then, like cyclamates, Alar was off the market; it was too late.
coldwarrior wrote:
i moved it back to to sat 0900 est
This is a really scary situation (drive-by-wire malfunction). I am not an expert, but my husband is an auto tech (has been for 25+ years). It is not just Toyota. He predicts that as we go more towards the electric/hybrid cars that this will be more and more an issue. My understanding is that instead of, say, the steering wheel – the actual wheels are not physically controlled by your hands/steering wheel; it is controlled by electric impulses that “read” your input and relays that to the wheels.
I have physically witnessed a drive-by-wire malfunction (in this case it was a GMC full size pick up truck) and it was one of the scariest event of my recent life. The malfunction happened to be a stuck accelerator.
coldwarrior wrote:
Lucas, Prince of Darkness!
Rodan wrote:
Oh please don’t, I have a lot to live for and I want Obamacare to help me make it to 100.
I have a new thread in review that I think that you will like.
Morgan wrote:
Ed Bradley on 60 minutes did a terrible piece on Alar.
The Osprey wrote:
i am trying to imagine a lucas electric designed and built drive by wire system!
@ coldwarrior:
It sure was a fun car, although it was a pile of crap.
O.T – for the medical type folks here
Can someone have diabetes for years without knowing it or having any symptoms of it and have nerve damage because of it?
Here’s some interesting information that I heard last night. Sorry no link as I haven’t found it yet. Apparently GM, and Chrysler also have a lot of current recalls under way at the moment as well. Do we hear anything about it in the media?
OFF TOPIC: Another One Bites The Dust (how Drudge put it):
NY Governor to suspend election campaign, but will not resign
@ bar:
yes, peripheral nerve damage is quite common in undiagnosed diabetes.
bar wrote:
the miata is all of the fun and none of the crap!
Macker wrote:
they will just elect another schmuck…
Dolphin wrote:
Which isn’t necessarily less reliable, it just fails differently. What worries me isn’t that the technology is inferior, but what’s going to happen when these things start getting to be 10 and 15 years old, and some shadetree mechanic ‘fixes’ them with wire nuts? Then we’re going to see some ugly accidents.
The automakers in general are going to do a better job of programming the computers to test for connection quality, and refusing to start if everything isn’t within spec. This, of course will become another headache for the owners. Just like our present generation of engine computers, there will be some problems that we simply won’t be able to fix.
Show of hands. How many out there are driving around with a “check engine” light on?
snork wrote:
my durango throws an intermittent misfire #8 every two weeks or so. i ignore it
(have obd2 reader)
mjazz wrote:
They should be made to drive their own cars.
coldwarrior wrote:
Buddy of mine had an mg and he was always sitting on the side of the road. Later,I bought a Saab Sonnet which had been sitting in some guy’s garage for all of it’s life due to some sort of lawsuit.Had 300 miles on it. Wow what a car. So damm long and so low that when I drove thru the drive thru at the bank they couldn’t see me. When things went wrong though. NO PARTS…
(not a pic of mine but exact same)
@ Speranza:
I Moved mkine back and move that one next, that way we don’t have 2 Israel stories back to back. Mine is between yours and Snorks.
We are booked till tommorow!
@ snork:
Most shadtrees–like me–would never touch the system. My old Volvo had an electronic fault that defied diagnosis. But, yes, the failure rate is going to grow over time.
Speranza wrote:
What I know about Alar came from an article in Reader’s Digest dated 1990 called The Great Apple Scare, sometime after Ed Bradley’s piece. The fact Bradley did a lousy piece was noted in the article.
snork wrote:
I am. And it pisses me off. In my previous truck (blazer) I disconnected the egr valve that way it stayed on all the time and I didnt care. That crap is horrible. Now I have a Ford Expedition and the light stays on all the time. Sensor 1. then next test, egr. makes me furious.
@ Grimcargo:
sonnets were great machines!
calcajun wrote:
One thing I’ve learned is to never underestimate the ingenuity of an idiot.
I have to say. It is very unsettling to close your car door and you are locked in there. I would not be surprized if the next thing that happens is you can’t get out. I don’t trust that mother computer board. It reminds me of the first garage doors going up when planes flew over.
@ Speranza:
ObamaCare will snuff you out at 75 no matter what your health. They call that “Saving Social Security”…
@ coldwarrior:
Great, so my whole problem maybe I have diabetes and never knew it, cause I never had any symptoms. I am not sure which I would rather have, that or a slipped disk? I wonder which is easier to rectify?
The Miata looks fun.
coldwarrior wrote:
It could travel. Like a yellow flash.Had freewheel drive.Inside it looked like a cockpit.All leather.And you could drive all week on a tank of gas. Big turn off…all plastic.
bar wrote:
which type of diabetes do you have
snork wrote:
It’s like my take on the Home Depot TV spots, “You can do it. We can laugh.”
@ Rodan:
You can move mine to tomorrow morning.
snork wrote:
He is more concerned with the vehicle being in an accident and the wire’s are damaged/pinched and the “damage” isn’t noticed. Another scenario he was talking about was electrocution from a broken wire (with regard to battery powered/hybrid) after an accident. Again, most of this is way over my head, but I have a general understanding.
LOL – raises hand! Pretty sad huh? At least he knows what’s wrong with it.
@ coldwarrior:
Well I saw the MD a few days ago about the numbness from the waist down. He thinks it maybe diabetes related, so he took a lot of my blood for testing.
Haven’t heard back from him yet as to whether I have diabetes or not.
I think he is wrong, but then I am almost never right when it comes to things I know nothing about.
@ bar:
I have exactly that. I went for years undiagnosed, and the only hint was that my feet hurt. That turned out to be diabetic neuropathy. My diabetes has been particularly stubborn to treat. I’ve also gained a lot of weight, partly as a side effect of the drugs that they have had me on. They put me on one medication, Actos, and I gained 30 pounds in 30 days. They took me off the drug, but the weight stayed
Good luck.
@ Iron Fist:
Actos gave me the shits. Took me off that, weight stayed. Frak.
And btw, Krauthammer is right on the head on this. This is exactly the same problem that drug makers face, in a different wrapper.
It’s odd that the same people who are trying to push us into energy technologies that aren’t ready for prime time, are surprised when other leading-edge technologies don’t work the way we expect, and may have unintended and unexpected consequences.
You want the benefits of the leading edge of technology? Expect to contact the bleeding edge sometimes.
When your car says “I’m sorry Dave, I won’t be able to do that”. It’s time to sell it.
John Stossel has a good article about this (haven’t read the comments – so sorry for the repeat):
I think this was expected ever since the gov’t got into the auto business. Honda, Nissan and Ford better watch their back sides.
I think that it’s clear what’s going on here.
The debate is over, the science is settled ,it’s caused by
Global Warming.
A glacier melted causing a disconsolate Polar Bear to dive into the ocean to commit suicide.
The splash put moisture into the atmosphere which caued snow, which caused the gas pedals to stick.
@ Dolphin:
The pinched wire and the slight short can be tested for in real time by the computer. But as I said, this is just going to create other problems that will make the thing hard to live with. And these
Russianspeople who rebuild totaled cars and resell them will figure out how to fake the computer out.The electrocution hazard won’t happen from an electric, but an explosion is a distinct possibility.
US Rep. Myrick meets NC Muslims, warns of dangers
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/02/25/357589/us-rep-myrick-meets-nc-muslims.html?storylink=misearch
CHARLOTTE, N.C. — After months of warning that Islamic radicals are infiltrating mainstream groups, U.S. Rep. Sue Myrick was to meet Thursday with Muslim constituents to explain her position.
Myrick, R-N.C., has said Islamic extremists are working their way into U.S. Muslim communities, infiltrating government institutions and influencing American citizens to attack their own country, The Charlotte Observer reported.
“I want people to be aware of the fact that it does exist and it is a threat to our national security,” said Myrick, who serves on the House Intelligence Committee. “It could be an American citizen that could be radicalized by one way or another.”
Jibril Hough, spokesman for the Islamic Center of Charlotte, said he hopes Thursday night’s town hall meeting is the first of many between Myrick and the Muslim community.
Myrick said she wants constituents to understand that her concerns aren’t about the rising visibility of the Islamic faith.
“We live in the United States of America, where we have freedom of religion for everybody,” Myrick said.
Instead, the former Charlotte mayor said her view was strengthened by top-secret briefings from U.S. intelligence officials that she said she could not discuss.
“There’s a threat out there to our security,” Myrick said. “It’s worse than I thought.”
She has proposed fighting Islamic radicalization by cutting off exchange programs and weapons sales with Saudi Arabia, passing legislation that would make it a treasonous offense to call for the death of American citizens and investigating the selection of Arabic translators.
Some conservatives have applauded her views, but some Muslims said they fear Myrick’s tone endangers their community.
“It’s looking like she’s taking on a tinge of McCarthyism, and this is dangerous,” said state Sen. Larry Shaw, D-Cumberland. “She’s becoming a hatemonger. And that’s sad. This is an intelligent woman, and I think she’s a good woman.”
Shaw is national chairman for the Council of American-Islamic Relations, a civil rights group Myrick has accused of planting spies on Capitol Hill by trying to get Muslim interns hired in congressional offices.
Last fall she wrote the foreword to a new book, “Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld That’s Seeking to Islamize America,” which accuses CAIR of conspiring to support international jihad against the United States.
Myrick has said her fears about infiltration were realized in November, when Army Maj. Nidal Hasan killed 13 people at Fort Hood, Texas. Hasan, a psychiatrist, had trained colleagues on how to handle Muslims in the military. The FBI had been monitoring contact between Hasan and a radical Yemeni-American cleric.
Some experts disagree with Myrick’s view that radicalized Islamic Americans present a growing terrorism threat. A study released last month by researchers at Duke University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill found 139 Muslim-Americans involved in alleged or confirmed terrorism incidents since Sept. 11, 2001, out of a national Muslim-American population of more than 3 million.
“We have a problem,” said David Schanzer, lead author of the study and director of the Triangle Center on Terrorism and Homeland Security. “It’s important to keep it in perspective in its size and dangerousness, which I think are generally overblown.”
Iron Fist wrote:
Friend of mine treats his with combination of insulin and diet. He went to an MD who was big into the low carb diets. He did rather well with that.
@ Dolphin:
Well, I have a Suburban, and it’s definitely drive-by-wire (6.5 turbo-Diesel), and it has never had a problem in that respect.
I remember the Audi flap, and it was conclusively proven that the so-called “unintended acceleration” was a myth.
In the company of several friends, I personally witnessed an “unintended acceleration” incident. An elderly gentleman was maneuvering his car to park it a row for a small car show we were having at a local shopping mall. Suddenly, the engine revved up and the car shot ahead and ran into a brick wall. Fortunately, the distance wasn’t great, and the car didn’t get moving very fast at all, but it was at wide-open throttle for an instant. Nobody caught between the car and the wall, and some minor damage to the car’s bumper.
The driver maintained that he had stepped on the brake to stop his car in the row, and when it didn’t stop quickly enough to suit him, he stepped harder. Folks, the stop lamps on that car never came on. Bystanders heard the engine rev up. Several of us checked the car over, right at the scene, and the brakes, the stop lamps, and the accelerator linkage were all in A-1 condition.
It was simply a matter of cognitive dissonance. He wanted to stop, so he stepped on the brake. Either he forgot his foot was resting on the accelerator, or his brain failed to process the “move foot from accelerator to brake” step in the sequence. Have you ever stumbled, going up or down a set of stairs, because there was one step more or less than you expected? I do it myself, from time to time. It’s simply the “habit mechanism” in your brain slipping a cog, or going from Line 201 in the program to line 203 without performing Line 202. And because your brain is running in “habit” mode, because it is running on firmware that you consciously programmed in there by dint of training and practice, then you are convinced that you cannot possibly have “made a mistake.”
I will add one more thing. Many people, when confronted with a problem like a sticky accelerator, simply panic because they have never thought about, or been trained in, how to deal with it. IMHO, nobody should get a driver’s license, unless they have spent time on a closed course in a prepared vehicle and had to deal with incidents like stuck throttle, tire blowout, loss of brakes, and skids. Sure, it would add a few hundred dollars to the cost of getting a driver’s license, but we’d all be better drivers for it, and eventually we’d gain that cost back in the form of lower traffic fatalities, and reduced insurance rates.
Morgan wrote:
I wonder if their is a way to bring some of this stuff (that clearly was never a health risk) back? DDT was ruled by a judge to be safe and was overturned by the EPA. Since then millions have died in Africa from malaria.
Alar made fruits last longer for shipping and now fruit has been priced out of the hands of poor people – who are now our most obese population.
The do-gooders clearly have blood on their hands and this should be brought to the publics attention.
@ Iron Fist:
Frak, that sucks.
Did your feet stop hurting?
@ snork:
I did, once, until I could replace a broken O2 sensor.
Alberta Oil Peon wrote:
In those cars back before computers in charge. I would not worry one bit about a stuck gas pedal or accelerator or brakes going out. But I still have that nagging wonder about whether the driver would be absolutely unable to do any of the actions to save himself because the computer won’t allow it. I’m thinking that could happen.
@ vapig:
I don’t know if Alar and DDT can be brought back, but what the outcome of both products being banned has wrought should indeed be brought out into the open. What these do-gooders have done is damn despicable.
@ Alberta Oil Peon:
I’ve hit something due to a
sticky acceleratorclumsy foot before.@ Grimcargo:
Even if the “computer” told the engine to run at wide-open throttle, you should be able to bring the car to a stop by simply pressing hard on the brake pedal. Any car in proper working order has brakes that are far more powerful than the engine. The brakes will haul you down from 60 mph in a whole lot less time than the engine get you up there.
And you can always switch off the ignition. Or shift to Neutral, if you don’t mind the engine grenading itself.
If the brakes fail to work properly, and the ignition won’t switch off, and you cannot shift to Neutral, you don’t have a mechanical problem, you have a movie plot.
@ Grimcargo:
What a prick. Gee, dude, you have Mohammedans blowing shit up and killing people all over the planet in the name of their demon moon god, and you think it is hatemongering to be concerned about these freaks establishing themselves in the American Mohammedan community? Think about it for a minute. The fact that the Mohammedan community doesn’t welcome help to keep out the radicals, the fact that they aren’t begging for it, is an indication of how bad things already are in a community that has trouble calling suicide bombers that kill children “terrorists”. We don’t have to understand them. They need to understand us. we are getting sick and tired of it. We have had all we will take, and whining that people are “looking at you funny” when your co-religionists are cutting off people’s heads isn’t the way to convince us that you are upstanding members of the community.
@ Grimcargo:
I heard about that after the fact. Dang I wish I would have known.
Says the CAIR man. *eye roll*
She IS a good woman.
You would think by now (being in the middle of all that hate) they could actually recognize hate when they saw it… alas noooo.
Had a 1966 vw bug,dang thing was haunted, I swear. I’d look out the window of my bedroom and the inside lights would be on for no reason.Then it would not start,nothing wrong with the ignition, battery or anything else.Learned how to do the pop clutch start. Thats what a Jew gets for owning a h!tler mobile. The pos finally did right by me and got stolen.
@ Nikis Knight:
I almost hit a bunch of things when my puppy somehow found her way to the floor board and decided to plop down behind the break pedal.
I thought I was going to die that day trying to get her out and keep my eyes on the road at the same time. Thank goodness I made it, lol.
@ bar:
No. In about 25% of diabetics you have neuropathy and in about 25% of them you have the associated pain. I got “lucky”. They are trying a new medication on me that may help, but the nerve damage is permanent.
Alberta Oil Peon wrote:
Well I listened to the audio of the cop who killed his entire family.You would think he would know all those things. And I’m not so sure even my Expo would allow me to put it in neutral while at top speed. I might try it. Im just saying. If a computer is screwed up it might just take over.And yeah that would be a movie plot. A nightmare on any street.
@ vagabond trader:
Herbie?
~:)
m wrote:
Heck you made my laugh. It’s the puppy thing. Sorry
@ m:
We did have lots of fun in that bugger back in the day.
@ Grimcargo:
That’s ok, I laughed after ~:D
bar wrote:
did you have any chronic exposure to chemicals especially pcb’s, defoliants, benzines, etc
I’m more likely to believe that there’s something wrong within the ECU/VSS/TPS and various systems. Back in the early/mid ’90′s companies started switching to electronic injection and ECU control. Bump a head a few years, fuel throughput/etc is monitored and modified by various other sensors(vss/tpv/o2/etc) on the vehicle to give a more efficient run. In the previous two cases, when I was an apprentice I saw weird stuff with various vehicles when the sensors went for a crap. Random stalls/thumping/random speed surges.
Bump ahead a few more years, drive by wire is introduced mechanical wire is removed–sensor is used to record throttle position of the driver, is relayed back and fuel/vehicle speed adjusted along with tps/vss/tpv/maf/map sensors to figure out vehicle speed. In theory to report a positive/negative difference and actual speed. All it really takes is a couple of sensors, bad wiring for something to happen. But without seeing toyotas ecm code no real way to tell for sure beyond guessing.
If it was mechanical with the peddle, being ‘beyond sync’ of it’s normal position during acceleration/startup should be recordable by the ecm and adjusted. Other vehicle sensors do adjustments like that all the time.
m wrote:
Netizens,
I just heard Beck on my break, he said the article misqouted him about Global Warming. He said he believes in Climate Change because the Climate always changes. He doesn’t believ Man has had a big impact on Climate. In other words, he doesn’t believe in AGW.
The Left was trying to smear him.
@ Iron Fist:
I saw it about we start giving them a taste of their hate back at them.
Mashiki wrote:
I bow to your expertise. Now tell me if it’s ok to disconnect egr valve.
Rodan wrote:
As they always do. Typical tactics.
@ Rodan:
Yep. I’ve felt that way since 11 Septmber 2001.
@ RIX:
Not only do you get 3.8 TRILLION UPDINGS!…you also receive a Hat Tip!
Rodan wrote:
I’m not surprised. What Beck said, as I understand it, is not at all inconsistent with his stances in regards to the environment. Another episode of the Left trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill.
Grimcargo wrote:
Depends, hot or cold? :p Older cars you could run with a bad EGR/Disconnected egr(and get shitty gas mileage while you’re at it), with either bad cold/hot starts or no starts. On newer cars they simply won’t start because they’re also hooked up to the ECM, no reading no fuel to the injectors. And in the cases on some NA models where they will start you’ll get bad milage because the system believes there’s a system fault and kicks into either limp mode, or runs in rich mode, or something screwy like rich/lean mode for long periods of time.
Sadly operational EGR is pretty much required on anything newer than 2003.
The interesting question to any American Muslim is “Is your loyalty first to the Ummah Or America?
Probably an insensitive question in todays climate, but I think that it’s a fair question.
Morgan wrote:
There, fixed that for ya!
@ coldwarrior:
None whatsoever.
Mashiki wrote:
Mine is a 2008 Ford Expedition and the light came on just a couple months after I bought it. After that, replacement of egr sensors and no time until that damm light is back on..
vagabond trader wrote:
LOL! That ain’t just a Jew thing. My first car was a Datsun (before they went Nissan) and had the same trouble. My father said it’s what I got for buying a Jap car. Daddy served in the Pacific Theatre in WWII.
@ vapig:
Dat soon?
bar wrote:
well, that rules out poisons.
peripheral neuopathy is a symptom of many very different diseases. the doc will do many test to ‘rule out’ or confirm these until the data fits the problem.
so, here’s a for instance, my dad has peripheral neuropathy, the doc checked for diabetes first, no dice, totally healthy on that, so next he went for chemical exposure history as basis for neural damage, dad was a yes for agent orange and pcb’s, so that’s part of it, he also had back surgery to address the lower extremity neuropathy. so, as you see, there are two disease processes working on the same symptom.
chemical exposure + narrowing of the spinal canal and surgery = lower extremity neuropathy in his case.
vagabond trader wrote:
My Mother the car?
AT LAST
[Excerpt: "A plea of convenience. Lying to the infidels. Same difference, and no remorse. The good news - apparently some Miami-Dade inmates meted out some justice and gave Asad a beat down and busted his lip open for being the antisemitic prisoner."]
A pretty blond gets on an evevator occupied by a man.
She smiles at him & says T.G.I.F,. He smiles back & says S.H.I.T
She hangs on to her sunny dispostion & says again T.G.I.F.
He again answers S.H.I.T.
She looks at him & says “duh, T.G.I.F means thank God It’s Friday.
He smiles & says S.H.I.T means , sorry honey it’s Thursday.
Grimcargo wrote:
Well the EGR is more then a sensor it’s a physical U or V style valve meant to introduce exhaust gas back into the system to be reburnt(in theory to reduce emissions). If it’s stuck open/closed/part-way weird things happen like what I mentioned above. The O2 sensor(hate) will pick up on the burnt o2 content, and compare it against known readings. Of when the vehicle was working properly, and check every sensor that’s responsible for emissions. Bad valve, is a check engine light.
Just to mention a lot of the older ones on vehicles were vacuum based, very easy, simple, nice and sometimes you could even unstick them–saving a person upwards of $400 for the stupid things. The newer ones are usually a monstrosity combination of mechanical/vacuum or pure mechanical. Because there’s 2-4 valves in them, and the sensor is physically inside the unit so you replace everything in one swipe.
Macker wrote:
Wasn’t it pronounced: DOT-son?
@ Iron Fist:
I’ve felt that way since July 1975 (When I was born)!
Mashiki wrote:
Oh my GAWDDD where’s Oral Roberts when you need him.
@ Grimcargo:
Probably Latin Kings, they HATE Muslims. They beat them up in jails.
@ Grimcargo:
She’s got balls, I give her credit.
Rodan wrote:
When President Booger hears this he will move all muslim trials out of Fla.
You may have heard this, Olypmic skier Lidsey Vonn is being required to surrender her gold medal to President Obama.
The Committee determined that no American is going downhill faster than the President.
@ Grimcargo:
I love stories like that.
Hope you all have a great day. I m going to go ride something that don’t have computers.lol
@ Grimcargo:
Yup, it puts the Left in a hard place. 2 “Minorities” against each other, Latins vs Muzzies. Who will they choose? Oh wait, we know that answer!
The Muzzies!
@ Grimcargo:
Take care!
@ Rodan:
He then prayed and chanted, before telling a cop to “Go back to Africa, you white racist cop!”
Since people are reminiscing about their cars in light of the Toyota feeding frenzy, I’ve got to say that the mid-’60s Volvos were a complete delight.
OK, you could tell their age by the progress of the rust pattern on the fenders (they went bad like clockwork after about 8 years of road salt), but most of them were just getting nicely broken in mechanically when you hit 120,000 miles.
These cars were magnificent; 4-speed stick (5 w/overdrive on the P-1800, almost the only car available with overdrive at the time), dual carbs, a hand choke—and they could be fixed with paper clips, pretty much. The 544s and 122s just kept on going and going, and 25 mpg in the 70s was nothing to sneeze at.
I had a friend in school who bought a new Corvette, and the thing spent 3/4 of the time in the shop. My beatup old Volvo was always reliably running to pick him up when he had to drop the damn thing off. Plus, the cars were cute as hell: the 544s looked like a 1947 Nash in half size, the 122s sort of like a 1950 Ford.
Haven’t had one for over 30 years, and I still love ‘em.
There has to be a manual override for certain essential functions, the very least of which should be steering and braking. How many people have to die before this is implemented?
A case in point:
An acquaintance got in an accident and the doors wouldn’t open. She couldn’t roll down the power windows so was stuck inside until help came and they busted the windows.
She was an elderly woman. Suppose there had been a fire and every second counted?
Rodan wrote:
Interestingly, however, Islam seems to be making inroads in the Spanish-speaking community. A number of the stores here in Williamsburg are run by Puerto Ricans who have converted to Islam, and there seems to be a burgeoning “Palestinian” presence in Puerto Rico.
mjazz wrote:
My late father used to say, “Never buy anything that doesn’t have a manual override.”
@ buzzsawmonkey:
Do the women wear scarves?
@ buzzsawmonkey:
A few people I knew had those,very distinctive. My vocational school boyfriends were more the gearhead types,Chevy super sports or GTOs.They always had lots of money and nice clothes too.
@ buzzsawmonkey:
When? Was this in reference to cars?
mjazz wrote:
Yes.
Mashiki wrote:
Partially incorrect. If you have the software that can remove or mask the EGR signal input to an unknown integer, then removal of the EGR is no big deal. DO it on Vettes all the time !!!
mjazz wrote:
He wouldn’t buy a toaster that didn’t have a manual override. He didn’t like to have anything that could not be controlled directly by the human hand.
@ vapig:
Yup, my Dad lamented my vw for the obvious reason,lol.
@ snork:
omg,don’t make me admit I remember that show.
@ buzzsawmonkey:
Offhand, I would expect friction between muslims and and non-muslims in the Hispanic community.
@ buzzsawmonkey:
This is why I’ll never drive an automatic. On the off-chance that the throttle jams, just drop the clutch and turn off the engine.
On top of which, manuals give you more useable power than an auto.
buzzsawmonkey wrote:
My old ’77 Accord had a manual choke. Once you get the feel for that, it makes life a lot easier.
archonix wrote:
I had the brakes go bad on one of my old Volvos, and drove it 3 miles to the mechanic on the handbrake and a lot of downshifting. There is no way in hell you could do that with an automatic; you’d have to get a tow, because you couldn’t control the car.
RIX @ 51:
Like this
@ buzzsawmonkey:
It’s a few rejects who come from Radical Marxist PR Liberation crap like the FALN. Also there aren’t many Palestinians in Puerto Rico. If there are, they are more likely to be Christian. Spanish Muslims are rejected by Hispanic society at large. We despise them. It’s a few malcontents and the Puerto ricans who become Muslism tend to be wannabe Black or weren;’t accepted into the Latin Kings in Jail.
The Latin Kings TOS Hispanic Muslims nas Traitors.
The whole Islam thing seems to appeal to people who would of been Communists a generation again. The same can be said about White Leftists who become Muslim as well. Islam as a whole appeals to derelicts of all ethnicities.
It’s Evangelicals who really making inroads with the Hispanic Community.
@ mjazz:
When I was growing up in the Early 90′s. The muzzies started moving into my hood. Let’s just say, we made them feel very unwelcome. They needed NYPD to protect them.
buzzsawmonkey wrote:
In Toasters, that’s the MCP.
@ Rodan:
If the apparent trend I see is merely an anecdotal anomaly, I’m glad to hear it. I just figured that it was worth mentioning.
Damn, should have picked a different route.
@ Rodan:
And what, exactly, did the NYPD do for those Mohammedans? Look the other way, perhaps?
It sounds like a scene from a movie:
You are an investigative reporter, and you can’t open the windows or open the doors, your cell phone doesn’t work, and your car drives itself into the garage of a building owned by 666co., the company you are a doing a story on. The door closes behind you. All is dark…
(All you writers out there- I want royalties.)
My first car. ummm ummm ummm. Would love to have it now.
http://automotivehistoryonline.com/1962%20Chevrolet%20Chevy%20Nova%20Convertible.jpg
Then again, maybe it’s been done. Except that now it is really possible.
Flight Canceled After 2 Flight Attendants Get Into Fight
Friday, February 26, 2010
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A Pinnacle Airlines flight from Rochester, N.Y., to Atlanta was canceled after two flight attendants got into a fight, AJC.com reported.
Two female flight attendants got into a verbal argument and the pilot decided to cancel the flight, Amy Howell, owner of Howell Marketing Strategies, which represents Pinnacle Airlines, told FoxNews.com.
“They told us we had to get off the plane because stewardesses were fighting,” said passenger Corey Minton.
The Delta Connection flight was operated by Pinnacle Airlines, which has suspended the two women while an investigation is conducted, the site reported.
“The acts described are not acceptable,” said Joe Williams, a spokesman for Pinnacle Airlines.
Passengers were reportedly placed on other flights.
OOH Cat fight?
@ vagabond trader:
Now, that’s cute.
@ mjazz:
Yet another episode for Charles Johnson: Race Detective?
@ Nevergiveup:
Porno Airways?
@ Nevergiveup:
Both of them must have been frakking the pilot….
Arab source: Mitchell wanted to quit over U.S. bias for Israel
I always hated Mitchell
@ Rodan:
I saw that a way out of those gangs that is accepted by them is if you get religion.
Nevergiveup wrote:
Let him quit, the anti-Israel bastid.
@ buzzsawmonkey:
It’s been going on for 40 years, especially in NY. Many of those Puerto Rican Muzzies are from the Terrorist group FALN or there supporters. They were radicals anyway/ Or theye were Puerto Ricans trying to be With that Black Power thing. See up until recent times, Islam in AMerica was thought of as a Black thing (Malcolm X and Muhamed Ali). It’s only since 9/11 that now people associate it with Arabs.
These guys get no traction and number just 40,000 -50,000 nationwide. You’re in NY so it looks worse than what it is. NY is rapidly becoming Islamicized from what I heard.
Hey, I heard Bayridge which was mostly Italian, Irish and Puerto Rican is now Muzzie! Is this true?
@ buzzsawmonkey:
Loved that little sweetheart! It actually belonged to my older brother. Got me in trouble one day skipping school when the vice principal recognized it and me cruising around.
@ Nevergiveup:
Now that is rich, Israeli bias. ‘Scuse me while I laugh.
buzzsawmonkey wrote:
And those are his good points
@ mjazz:
Actually with the Latin Kings, you can become what is called Inactive. They aren’t strict about participation. After you earn your dues and have proven your loyalty, You can seek a path of Self Enlightment. This include, joining the Military, Going to College or starting a family. However, once a King always a King and you must always stand up for the Latin Community against people who seek to puit it down (Progressives)
They are more Ideological than a gang per say.
Now La Me (Mexican Mob), MS-13, Nortenos, Netas, Surenos and others are different. They are really Gangs who are about criminality. Once you join them, no leaving.
Documentary?
Rodan wrote:
There was an incident in Bay Ridge—last summer, I think, though it may have been the summer before—where the “Palestinian” youths who hang around certain corners there vandalized the houses on Senate Street which were flying American flags. Interestingly, many of those houses were owned by Arab Christians, who were pissed as hell.
Yes, there is a large Muslim presence in Bay Ridge. And in Park Slope. And in Prospect Heights. And in Boerum Hill, which includes the radical-Muslim enclave of Atlantic Avenue.
As I have noted, the corner delis/bodegas in Park Slope used to have collection-boxes for the Holy Land Foundation by the cash register, until that entity was put out of business. The laundromat I used to go to had a picture of the owner shaking hands with Yasser Arafat. Headscarves? Common. Full burkha? Rare, but not unknown. One of the conspirators for WTC I—the uncle of the killer of Meir Kahane—lived in my neighborhood. Six blocks from my former apartment, when I was still living there, two guys were arrested for plotting a suicide bombing of the Atlantic Avenue/Pacific Street subway station. The guy who used to have the ice cream parlor around the corner was taken away for terror connections after 9/11. The old Sailor’s Rest Home on 4th Avenue is a big madrassa now.
@ buzzsawmonkey:
Wow, so I heard about Brooklyn going Jihadi, is it getting worse?
My Old Hood Woodside is now party Muzzie (Turk and Bosnian).
@ Rodan:
There’s certainly a visible Muslim presence. How much of that is actually jihad-sympathetic I could not say.
Nevergiveup @ 133:
I say continue the flight.
Free in flight live entertainment.
Rodan @ 141:
As of the 2000 U.S. Census, there were 69,840 people living in Bay Ridge. The demographics were 78.2% White, 11.0% Hispanic or Latino, 10.1% Asian, 1.6% African American and 0.2% Native American. Of those, the top 5 ancestries were 16.6% Irish, 16.5% Italian, 10.8% Arab, 5.4% Chinese and 5.4% Greek
They are every where in Brooklyn.
@ Beltfed:
We need a Reconquista in NY!
@ Rodan:
lol.