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Poll: Obama lost almost half of U.S. Jewish support

by Bob in Breckenridge ( 128 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Election 2008, Politics, Polls, Progressives at May 10th, 2010 - 1:00 pm

From the “It’s about time” department:

It looks like a core group that supported President Barack Obama during his election is dropping their support for him by half. These kinds of numbers are astounding, and Democrats running for office in even safe blue districts should not necessarily be waving over the president during the campaign season to help them with their re-election campaigns, because no incumbent appears to be safe.

Arutz Sheva is reporting President Barack Obama has lost almost half of his support among Jewish Americans. A poll done by the McLaughlin Group asked American Jews if:

(a) vote to re-elect Obama, or (b) consider voting for someone else. 42% said they would vote for Obama and 46%, a plurality, preferred the second answer. 12% said they did not know or refused to answer.

The data on the 2008 presidential elections fares no better today for Mr. Obama either:

In the Presidential elections of 2008, 78% of Jewish voters, or close to 8 out of 10, chose Obama. The McLaughlin poll held nearly 18 months later, in April 2010, appears to show that support down to around 4 out of 10.

[...]

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128 Responses to “Poll: Obama lost almost half of U.S. Jewish support”
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  1. Nevergiveup
    1 | May 10, 2010 1:02 pm

    Yeah, well not so sure about that. I hope so, but being one and knowing how my tribe thinks, I am not so sure those numbers will hold up.


  2. snork
    2 | May 10, 2010 1:07 pm

    Hold on a minute. “Consider voting for someone else” is a long, long ways from opposing. Read the questions carefully. In ’12, Obama will get at least 75% of the Jewish votes. I’ll bet my entire quatloo account on that.


  3. Nevergiveup
    3 | May 10, 2010 1:08 pm

    As an example of how suicidal my Jewish People are: This lovely “sane” guy is an MK ( member of the Kenneset) in Israel:

    MK Ganaim calls for Islamic caliphate in Israel
    On completion of first year in Knesset, Arab MK tells Nazareth newspaper ‘it is in the Jews’ interest, since their golden era was under this caliphate’

    The enemy within?


  4. 4 | May 10, 2010 1:08 pm

    @ Nevergiveup:

    You are probably right. They may not like Obama but come 2012, the Progressives will use the specter of the Christian Right to get Liberal Jews back in line.

    Bush who was as Pro-Israel and freind to Jews as any President could be managed to only get 28% in 2004. That’s something to keep in mind.


  5. Nevergiveup
    5 | May 10, 2010 1:09 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Nevergiveup:

    You are probably right. They may not like Obama but come 2012, the Progressives will use the specter of the Christian Right to get Liberal Jews back in line.

    Bush who was as Pro-Israel and freind to Jews as any President could be managed to only get 28% in 2004. That’s something to keep in mind.

    Yup.


  6. 6 | May 10, 2010 1:09 pm

    @ Nevergiveup:

    Another Caliphate supporter, unreal!


  7. 7 | May 10, 2010 1:12 pm

    @ Nevergiveup:

    “Moderate” Mohammedan. He only wants to enslave the Jews, not slaughter them.


  8. buzzsawmonkey
    8 | May 10, 2010 1:14 pm

    Regarding Obama and Jewish support, I still encounter Jews—lots of them—who either do not know about Hamas running phone banks for Obama, or flatly refuse to believe it when told.

    And they invariably point to Rahm Emmanuel as “proof” that Obama is “pro-Israel.”


  9. 9 | May 10, 2010 1:17 pm

    @ Nevergiveup:

    I know this because growing up in the NY area I met Liberal Jews. They are obsessed with the Christian Right as a bogey man and Abortion rights. Everything else is irrelevant.


  10. 11 | May 10, 2010 1:18 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    And they invariably point to Rahm Emmanuel as “proof” that Obama is “pro-Israel.”

    That’s just unbelievable. It’s like saying a person can’t be a rapist because he has a daughter or mother. Rahm is a Progressives first and formost. Marx is his Prophet.


  11. 12 | May 10, 2010 1:21 pm

    @ snork:

    Ludwig really is crazy.


  12. Runner
    13 | May 10, 2010 1:23 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Nevergiveup:

    I know this because growing up in the NY area I met Liberal Jews. They are obsessed with the Christian Right as a bogey man and Abortion rights. Everything else is irrelevant.

    Sounds like a former Blogmocracy poster.


  13. 14 | May 10, 2010 1:25 pm

    @ Runner:

    Who would that be?


  14. Runner
    15 | May 10, 2010 1:25 pm

    @ snork:

    Notice how he works in the AGW canard. He sees everything through that prism.


  15. 16 | May 10, 2010 1:26 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    and Abortion rights

    I wonder why that is? It seems an odd position to take for someone who is religious.


  16. Runner
    17 | May 10, 2010 1:27 pm

    @ Rodan:

    Moe Katz. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed his comments and thought he was pretty funny. But at times he seemed to be obsessed with Christians, especially evangelists.


  17. 18 | May 10, 2010 1:27 pm

    @ Runner:

    That’s the OCD coming into play.


  18. 19 | May 10, 2010 1:28 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    No the ones I am reffering to aren’t religious. The Religious Jews I met tended to be Conservative. I was reffering to Liberal NY Jews.


  19. Runner
    20 | May 10, 2010 1:28 pm

    Runner wrote:

    @ Rodan:

    Moe Katz. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed his comments and thought he was pretty funny. But at times he seemed to be obsessed with Christians, especially evangelists.

    I should have said evangelicals…


  20. 21 | May 10, 2010 1:28 pm

    @ Runner:

    He also didn’t like religious Jews as well. But yes his attitude was what I encountred in NY.


  21. myselfandi
    22 | May 10, 2010 1:31 pm

    snork wrote:

    Here’s an example of the mental contortions they go through.

    and then some more times I tried to warn Obama that Israel really needs him to protect herself and he, well, he might see the stuff I write and offer me a job writing telepromter stuff.


  22. Runner
    23 | May 10, 2010 1:31 pm

    @ Rodan:

    I do wish he would come back though. I don’t mean to disparage him and thought he always had something to add to the discussion even if I disagreed with him at times.


  23. Runner
    24 | May 10, 2010 1:32 pm

    Time to go for a run. (work is slow today)

    I’ll check back in later.


  24. Speranza
    25 | May 10, 2010 1:33 pm

    @ Rodan:
    That’s a blood chilling video about the racist, overrated George Bernard Shaw (on Daedalus)


  25. Speranza
    26 | May 10, 2010 1:35 pm

    The Upper West Side Jews would vote for Heydrich if his name was on Democratic ticket, that’s because they automatically vote Democratic and do not even notice the name of the canddidate on the ballot.


  26. Speranza
    27 | May 10, 2010 1:36 pm

    Runner wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    I do wish he would come back though. I don’t mean to disparage him and thought he always had something to add to the discussion even if I disagreed with him at times.

    I miss Moe Katz.


  27. Speranza
    28 | May 10, 2010 1:38 pm

    @ Rodan:
    He got my vote in 2004.


  28. wolfie
    29 | May 10, 2010 1:41 pm

    If the election were held today I think Obama would lose some Jewish support. I suspect it would mostly be a matter of some not bothering to vote at all. In any case, I doubt it would be a significant shift.

    Funny, isn’t it? Everyone knows that the reason the US has supported Israel is because the Jooooos control American politics. Yet their money and votes don’t go to the more pro-Israel party. Most bizarre!


  29. Bumr50
    30 | May 10, 2010 1:43 pm

    Hey a new feature!

    I think they sell ‘Hot Links’ at the gas station down the road.


  30. Nevergiveup
    31 | May 10, 2010 1:54 pm

    wolfie wrote:

    If the election were held today I think Obama would lose some Jewish support. I suspect it would mostly be a matter of some not bothering to vote at all. In any case, I doubt it would be a significant shift.

    Funny, isn’t it? Everyone knows that the reason the US has supported Israel is because the Jooooos control American politics. Yet their money and votes don’t go to the more pro-Israel party. Most bizarre!

    My biggest “Hope” is if things get worse with Israel ( which is bound to happen ), it might effect the Dems in certain States and more so with Fund Raising. And with more “Prominent” Jews coming out against him.


  31. 32 | May 10, 2010 1:55 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    who either do not know about Hamas running phone banks for Obama, or flatly refuse to believe it when told.

    Did you show them the clips on youtube? At the time I couldn’t understand how that was legal. But then Glen Beck explained all the tricks obama’s people used during the campaign.


  32. buzzsawmonkey
    33 | May 10, 2010 1:57 pm

    teacake wrote:

    Did you show them the clips on youtube?

    In some cases. It made no difference—they all responded with variations on, “Well, he couldn’t stop them from working on his behalf, so it’s not his fault.”


  33. lobo91
    34 | May 10, 2010 1:58 pm

    @ teacake:

    At the time I couldn’t understand how that was legal.

    “Legal” is such a quaint term…


  34. Philip_Daniel
    35 | May 10, 2010 1:58 pm

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    MK Ganaim calls for Islamic caliphate in Israel
    On completion of first year in Knesset, Arab MK tells Nazareth newspaper ‘it is in the Jews’ interest, since their golden era was under this caliphate’

    The statement by MK Ganaim encapsulates the very definition of Khad`ah

    And to thoroughly disprove his malicious contention, I shall permit Moses ben Maimon to reveal the incontestable truth regarding the suffering of al-yahud under the slavish yoke of al-dhimma

    Remember, my co-religionists, that on account of the vast number of our sins, God has hurled us in the midst of this people, the Arabs, who have persecuted us severely, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us, as Scripture has forewarned us, ‘Our enemies themselves shall judge us’ (Deuteronomy 32:31). Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase and hate us as much as they…Although we were dishonored by them beyond human endurance, and had to put with their fabrications, yet we behaved like him who is depicted by the inspired writer, “But I am as a deaf man, I hear not, and I am as a dumb man that openeth not his mouth.” (Psalms 38:14). Similarly our sages instructed us to bear the prevarications and preposterousness of Ishmael in silence. They found a cryptic allusion for this attitude in the names of his sons “Mishma, Dumah, and Massa” (Genesis 25:14), which was interpreted to mean, “Listen, be silent, and endure.” (Targum Pseudo-Jonathan, ad locum). We have acquiesced, both old and young, to inure ourselves to humiliation, as Isaiah instructed us “I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair.” (50:6). All this notwithstanding, we do not escape this continued maltreatment which well nigh crushes us. No matter how much we suffer and elect to remain at peace with them, they stir up strife and sedition, as David predicted, “I am all peace, but when I speak, they are for war.” (Psalms 120:7). If, therefore, we start trouble and claim power from them absurdly and preposterously we certainly give ourselves up to destruction.”

    Maimonides, “Epistle to the Jews of Yemen”, 12th century


  35. 36 | May 10, 2010 1:59 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Nevergiveup:
    I know this because growing up in the NY area I met Liberal Jews. They are obsessed with the Christian Right as a bogey man and Abortion rights. Everything else is irrelevant.

    I know a lot of ex Christian atheists who really believe Christians are more dangerous than islamists.


  36. wolfie
    37 | May 10, 2010 2:01 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    I miss Moe Katz.

    When he got on a roll, he was as funny as they come!


  37. 38 | May 10, 2010 2:01 pm

    I fear all the smart Jews who might have made a difference in today’s world, perished during the holocaust. That certainly had an impact on today’s world, without them.


  38. snork
    39 | May 10, 2010 2:02 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    In some cases. It made no difference—they all responded with variations on, “Well, he couldn’t stop them from working on his behalf, so it’s not his fault.”

    OTOH, if David Duke was running a phone bank for McCain from Kiev…


  39. lobo91
    40 | May 10, 2010 2:02 pm

    @ teacake:

    I know a lot of ex Christian atheists who really believe Christians are more dangerous than islamists.

    You know Rosie O’Donnell?


  40. snork
    41 | May 10, 2010 2:04 pm

    teacake wrote:

    I fear all the smart Jews who might have made a difference in today’s world, perished during the holocaust. That certainly had an impact on today’s world, without them.

    Actually, I think”smart” is a big part of the problem. Often “smart” people don’t feel the need to be wise, and wise is what’s really needed.


  41. Nevergiveup
    42 | May 10, 2010 2:05 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ teacake:

    I know a lot of ex Christian atheists who really believe Christians are more dangerous than islamists.

    You know Rosie O’Donnell?

    She said ex Christian not ex fat bastard Christian?


  42. Nevergiveup
    43 | May 10, 2010 2:06 pm

    snork wrote:

    teacake wrote:

    I fear all the smart Jews who might have made a difference in today’s world, perished during the holocaust. That certainly had an impact on today’s world, without them.

    Actually, I think”smart” is a big part of the problem. Often “smart” people don’t feel the need to be wise, and wise is what’s really needed.

    They also need some classless bastards who are willing and happy to get down and dirty in the gutter like me.


  43. 44 | May 10, 2010 2:07 pm

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    ex fat bastard Christian

    LOL -- basically your typical loud mouth stupid liberal types who are everywhere. And they hate Jews too, liberal or otherwise.


  44. 45 | May 10, 2010 2:08 pm

    Need more coffee before I go to work. Off to the store, c ya.


  45. chickadee
    47 | May 10, 2010 2:09 pm

    What abt. the compelling full page ads in the WSJ and the nyt. They were taken out by various Jewish organizations and individuals to state their opposition to zero favoring the savages in the ‘peace’ process?
    That was encouraging. I bet it got some people thinking.


  46. Bumr50
    48 | May 10, 2010 2:12 pm

    Fannie Mae KISS MY A**!

    Liberals behave as though they’ve killed God, and can’t bear that most people just won’t go along.


  47. Flyovercountry
    49 | May 10, 2010 2:12 pm

    I don’t have true statistical information at my disposal but I can add this anecdotal analysis. This weekend, we had a family get together for Mother’s day. For 3 plus decades, I have been the lone conservative in my family. The constant barrage of liberal tripe was hard to take, and was as intellectually vacuous as it was endless. This Sunday past, and for the first time, my very liberal Jewish family was quiet on all things politic. I don’t know if they will vote with the GOP come November, but the overt attempts to bring me back into the liberal fold had ended. There is a shift about. The Zero will not be able to claim to be a friend to the Jews in Israel this time around. That coupled with the fact that it will be a good 15 to 20 years before anyone falls for the fiscally conservative hawkish Democrat again should make for a fun couple of years beginning this November.


  48. 50 | May 10, 2010 2:13 pm

    Jews will continue to vote for the left in large numbers here and (less so) in Israel because they have an intellectual predisposition to egalitarianism and post-nationalism, partly as a result of their emphasis on education and their assimilation into the academic conventional pieties and schooling in victimology, and partly because of their extrapolation of religious in-group morality and inclusivity to the world at large. This has led to politically suicidal tendencies.


  49. Nevergiveup
    51 | May 10, 2010 2:13 pm

    Flyovercountry wrote:

    The Zero will not be able to claim to be a friend to the Jews in Israel this time around. That coupled with the fact that it will be a good 15 to 20 years before anyone falls for the fiscally conservative hawkish Democrat again should make for a fun couple of years beginning this November.

    G-d I hope so. But time will tell. Time will tell.


  50. 52 | May 10, 2010 2:15 pm

    teacake wrote:

    I know a lot of ex Christian atheists who really believe Christians are more dangerous than islamists.

    Because Christians have flown so many planes into buildings, set of car and suicide bombs, and so on. Some people believe that they are Napolean, too. We usually lock those crazies up.


  51. Philip_Daniel
    53 | May 10, 2010 2:15 pm

    teacake wrote:

    I know a lot of ex Christian atheists who really believe Christians are more dangerous than islamists.

    Well, please ask them if there is any established, incontrovertible doctrine in any Christian sect which resembles the thorough and perpetual dogma of jihad al-talab wa’l-ibtida’ in Islam

    “It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action…Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them…If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them.”–Sahih Muslim Book 19 Number 4294

    “Yahya related to me from Malik that he had heard that Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz wrote to one of his governors, “It has been passed down to us that when the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, sent out a raiding party, he would say to them, ‘Make your raids in the name of Allah in the way of Allah. Fight whoever denies Allah.’”--al-Muwatta 21 21.3.11

    “It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger Allah said: A disbeliever and a believer who killed him will never be gathered together in Hell.”--Sahih Muslim Book 20 Number 4661

    “It is narrated on the authority of Abu Malik: I heard the Messenger of Allah say: He who professed that there is no god but Allah and made a denial of everything which the people worship beside Allah, his property and blood became inviolable.”—Sahih Muslim Book 1 Number 34

    “Allah sent him (the Prophet), with the guiding Book and the conquering sword, ahead of the Hour, so that Allah alone would be worshipped with no partner or associate, and his provision was placed beneath the shade of his sword and spear. Allah has established the religion of Islam with proof and evidence, and with the sword and spear, both are together and inseparable.”--Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyya’s al-Faroosiyyah (p.18)

    “Narrated AbuAyyub al-Ansari: AbuAyyub heard the Apostle of Allah say: Capitals will be conquered at your hands, and you will have to raise companies in large armies.”--Sunan Abu Dawud Book 14 Number 2519

    “Ibn Jarir commented, “This is an encouragement from Allah for His believing servants to fight the idolators and chiefs of disbelief.”"--Tafsir ibn Kathir “Surah at-Taubah [Q 9]“


  52. 54 | May 10, 2010 2:17 pm

    @ Philip_Daniel:

    How do you think the Muslim Police Association in Britain will react to the newly formed Pagan Police Association?
    See Melanie Phillips.


  53. 55 | May 10, 2010 2:18 pm

    This might not be a comfortable sentiment for those who would rather make excuses and point fingers but…

    In addition to getting their and their “Jewish Families” political lives in order, Jews in general really cannot ignore the harm they do to society, their families, themselves, and the World at large by not getting their religious lives in order as well.

    As long as we remain a fractured, soulless Jews in name only people any political victory will be Pyrrhic.


  54. snork
    56 | May 10, 2010 2:22 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    teacake wrote:

    I know a lot of ex Christian atheists who really believe Christians are more dangerous than islamists.

    Because Christians have flown so many planes into buildings, set of car and suicide bombs, and so on. Some people believe that they are Napolean, too. We usually lock those crazies up.

    Because they’re reacting against their own guilty consciouses for falling away. It’s kind of a projection thing; it was necessary to fall away, because they’re so evil.


  55. snork
    57 | May 10, 2010 2:23 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    Jews will continue to vote for the left in large numbers here and (less so) in Israel because they have an intellectual predisposition to egalitarianism and post-nationalism, partly as a result of their emphasis on education and their assimilation into the academic conventional pieties and schooling in victimology, and partly because of their extrapolation of religious in-group morality and inclusivity to the world at large. This has led to politically suicidal tendencies.

    But what is Zionism, if not a nationalistic movement?


  56. Philip_Daniel
    58 | May 10, 2010 2:24 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    @ Philip_Daniel:
    How do you think the Muslim Police Association in Britain will react to the newly formed Pagan Police Association?
    See Melanie Phillips.

    http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/5987164/britains-pagan-police.thtml

    I agree with poster Osred in the comments section…

    There should[n't] be ‘associations’ within the police except those whose purpose is to emphasise the role of the Police in maintaining the law of the land without fear or favour. No association should be allowed to exist which aims to further any ideas contrary to parliamentray democracy and the Law, nor promote alternative interpretations of the Law.

    Take that where you will…


  57. RIX
    59 | May 10, 2010 2:24 pm

    Ok, for all Jews that do not support Obama particularly here,
    Ludwig does not like you


  58. Philip_Daniel
    60 | May 10, 2010 2:25 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    @ Philip_Daniel:
    How do you think the Muslim Police Association in Britain will react to the newly formed Pagan Police Association?
    See Melanie Phillips.

    And as for the Muslim reaction, too soon to say…


  59. 61 | May 10, 2010 2:26 pm

    @ WrathofG-d:

    “As long as we remain a fractured, soulless Jews in name only people any political victory will be Pyrrhic.”

    This is often used as the basis of the anti-Israel argument that true Jews are religious Jews and religious Jews are closer to God when they are not a polity. Jews lose their soul when they have to defend themselves in war. So Jews are freer to be true to their Judaism under Muslim sovereignty (or Arab or Christian or any national sovereignty).

    Oh, and being Jewish in name only was sufficient for the Nazi extermination.


  60. wolfie
    62 | May 10, 2010 2:26 pm

    Flyovercountry wrote:

    This Sunday past, and for the first time, my very liberal Jewish family was quiet on all things politic.

    Ah! That’s exactly what I’ve been getting from my moonbat sister and BIL lately. Blissful silence!
    They’ll no doubt vote for Bambi in 2012 just to stop whatever racifascihomophobicreationist villain the GOP nominates. But lemme tell you, the thrill is gone. The legs are no longer tingling!


  61. Bumr50
    63 | May 10, 2010 2:27 pm

    @ Overlook:

    The post-modern self-loather is the result of the removal of God from young lives.

    Not to be overly dramatic about it, but I think that finding professors at liberal arts schools that believe in the God that is described in the Bible would be a daunting and disappointing task.


  62. 64 | May 10, 2010 2:28 pm

    @ snork:

    Zionism is a nationalist movement. But there are many (leftist)Israeli post-Zionists.


  63. 65 | May 10, 2010 2:32 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    @ WrathofG-d:
    “As long as we remain a fractured, soulless Jews in name only people any political victory will be Pyrrhic.”
    This is often used as the basis of the anti-Israel argument that true Jews are religious Jews and religious Jews are closer to God when they are not a polity. Jews lose their soul when they have to defend themselves in war. So Jews are freer to be true to their Judaism under Muslim sovereignty (or Arab or Christian or any national sovereignty).
    Oh, and being Jewish in name only was sufficient for the Nazi extermination.

    1. Anyone that states that “religious Jews lose their soul when they have to defend themselves in war” has not read the Torah. Because based on that argument they are claiming that Moses, David, Saul, Seth, Jacob, Aharon and practically every other truly religious Jew was “unholy”. That is a VERY un-Jewish argument.

    2. Anyone that states that “religious Jews are closer to God when they are not a polity” also has obviously not actually read the Torah. After Sinai the Jewish people are specifically placed into “political” groups and given specific “political” positions, goals, etc. Again, to make this claim they have to ignore the actual text and history of Jewish prophets much, much, more Holy than ANYONE living today.

    3. Although being Jewish in name only was enough to KILL Jews, it is NOT enough to ensure our survival.


  64. Philip_Daniel
    66 | May 10, 2010 2:32 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Ok, for all Jews that do not support Obama particularly here,
    Ludwig does not like you

    Ludwig seriously contends that members of the Blogmocracy desire a theocracy…

    :-Þ


  65. Philip_Daniel
    67 | May 10, 2010 2:35 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    So Jews are freer to be true to their Judaism under Muslim sovereignty

    As long as they keep “their vile kufr and shirk” behind closed doors while accepting abasing and discriminatory dhimma regulations [what Zimriel has previously aptly called "an Islamic Jim Crow".]


  66. vapig
    68 | May 10, 2010 2:35 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    @ Philip_Daniel:
    How do you think the Muslim Police Association in Britain will react to the newly formed Pagan Police Association?
    See Melanie Phillips.

    They really have gone to hell in a handbasket!


  67. 69 | May 10, 2010 2:36 pm

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ Overlook:
    The post-modern self-loather is the result of the removal of God from young lives.
    Not to be overly dramatic about it, but I think that finding professors at liberal arts schools that believe in the God that is described in the Bible would be a daunting and disappointing task.

    One need not be a self-loathing Jew as an atheist. While the orthodox are procreating in greater numbers than secular Jews, I do not think support of Zionism should depend on them. We must change the mind of secular Jews. Exhorting them to belief in God will not do it, when they identify the morality of Judaism with socialist re-distribution, and universal human rights.


  68. Nevergiveup
    70 | May 10, 2010 2:39 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    Exhorting them to belief in God will not do it, when they identify the morality of Judaism with socialist re-distribution, and universal human rights.

    I am not sure what the answer is. As for me, well I went to Israel in my early twenties, and got lucky with a few sabrets. Zionism here I come. Sometimes it’s as shallow as that.


  69. 71 | May 10, 2010 2:40 pm

    @ RIX:

    Ludwig van Quack Quack is a coward for not coming here in his/her own person and saying so. What is he/she afraid of? It’s all virtual here. No one will bite…


  70. Philip_Daniel
    72 | May 10, 2010 2:40 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    socialist re-distribution, and universal human rights.

    Anyone else notice that the two contradict, that they are mutually incompatible?


  71. vagabond trader
    73 | May 10, 2010 2:41 pm

    @ teacake:

    Had a Jewish friend who wouldn’t even look at vids or listen to reason. Just started screaming about me drinking the koolaide.In fact our last contact was an email she sent with the Rahmn Emanuel appointment. :mrgreen:


  72. Nevergiveup
    74 | May 10, 2010 2:42 pm

    Philip_Daniel wrote:

    Overlook wrote:

    socialist re-distribution, and universal human rights.

    Anyone else notice that the two contradict, that they are mutually incompatible?

    Well to a commie, universal human rights means rights for me but not for thee


  73. 75 | May 10, 2010 2:43 pm

    @ Overlook:

    Religiosity is the answer, not only in an intellectual sense but most importantly because it is true, and G-d is true, and without G-d anything created by man has no hope.

    Jews are in Israel because G-d wanted us to be there, and because He promised the land to us. Sure you can come up with millions of other reasons for Israel’s survival, etc., but without G-d’s Blessing they are nothing!

    Moses and Avraham (etc.) had a choice when G-d came to bless them with their jobs here on earth. Had they said no, then the Jews would not be the Jews but just another one of the Nations. That choice as the choice is always, is one about faith. It is this attempt to distinguish our lives from the blessings of G-d that got us kicked out of Israel the first time. If we continue as a people to make the same mistakes, as He said, it will happen again.


  74. RIX
    76 | May 10, 2010 2:44 pm

    Philip_Daniel
    66 | May 10, 2010 14:32
    Ludwig seriously contends that members of the Blogmocracy desire a theocracy…

    He also says that we are nor real Americans & are scum.
    Other than that, I wonder if he likes us?


  75. vapig
    77 | May 10, 2010 2:45 pm

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ Overlook:
    The post-modern self-loather is the result of the removal of God from young lives.
    Not to be overly dramatic about it, but I think that finding professors at liberal arts schools that believe in the God that is described in the Bible would be a daunting and disappointing task.

    You can definately se that in Europe, which is post-Christian. They have moral compus and are unable to defend themselves against islam.


  76. vapig
    78 | May 10, 2010 2:46 pm

    vapig wrote:

    Bumr50 wrote:
    @ Overlook:
    The post-modern self-loather is the result of the removal of God from young lives.
    Not to be overly dramatic about it, but I think that finding professors at liberal arts schools that believe in the God that is described in the Bible would be a daunting and disappointing task.
    You can definately se that in Europe, which is post-Christian. They have no moral compus and are unable to defend themselves against islam.


  77. 79 | May 10, 2010 2:46 pm

    @ WrathofG-d:

    1.True. But modern, reform, exegesis conflates “soul” with “morality”. So do leftists.
    2.True. But that kind of nationalism offends human rights law and Geneva Conventions.
    3.If true, Israel is doomed. The content of being Jewish for many Israeli is identified with leftist morality and human rights law. Meanwhile secular, atheist, politically conservative Jews can provide a coherent theory of nationalism for Israel that takes full account of the history of the Jews.


  78. Nevergiveup
    80 | May 10, 2010 2:47 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Philip_Daniel
    66 | May 10, 2010 14:32
    Ludwig seriously contends that members of the Blogmocracy desire a theocracy…

    He also says that we are nor real Americans & are scum.
    Other than that, I wonder if he likes us?

    We’re not real Americans? And he served in what branch?


  79. vapig
    81 | May 10, 2010 2:47 pm

    Philip_Daniel wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    Ok, for all Jews that do not support Obama particularly here,
    Ludwig does not like you
    Ludwig seriously contends that members of the Blogmocracy desire a theocracy…

    :-Þ

    Unlike the secular islam…..


  80. lobo91
    82 | May 10, 2010 2:49 pm

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    Philip_Daniel
    66 | May 10, 2010 14:32
    Ludwig seriously contends that members of the Blogmocracy desire a theocracy…
    He also says that we are nor real Americans & are scum.
    Other than that, I wonder if he likes us?
    We’re not real Americans? And he served in what branch?

    He thinks we’re Nazis, as well.


  81. Philip_Daniel
    83 | May 10, 2010 2:50 pm

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    scum

    No commentary necessary…


  82. Nevergiveup
    84 | May 10, 2010 2:51 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    He thinks we’re Nazis, as well.

    Yeah when all else fails, they call us Nazis. But never to our faces.


  83. RIX
    85 | May 10, 2010 2:52 pm

    Nevergiveup
    80 | May 10, 2010 14:47
    We’re not real Americans? And he served in what branch?

    I doubt that Ludwig was a Boy Scout. He is real busy though deciding who is worthy of being an American.
    His first requirement seems to be a support of Obama, although the dolt expressed concern about Obama policy toward Israel.
    Lud, ya think?


  84. vapig
    86 | May 10, 2010 2:52 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    Bumr50 wrote:
    @ Overlook:
    The post-modern self-loather is the result of the removal of God from young lives.
    Not to be overly dramatic about it, but I think that finding professors at liberal arts schools that believe in the God that is described in the Bible would be a daunting and disappointing task.
    One need not be a self-loathing Jew as an atheist. While the orthodox are procreating in greater numbers than secular Jews, I do not think support of Zionism should depend on them. We must change the mind of secular Jews. Exhorting them to belief in God will not do it, when they identify the morality of Judaism with socialist re-distribution, and universal human rights.

    A lot of so-called churches in just about every sect of the Christian faith are doing the same thing. You constantly hear that Jesus was a socialist (or community organizer/agitator) and it’s just not true.

    One thing is for sure, the marxists knew that in order to bring marxism to the Latin American continent they had to infiltrate the churches. They suceeded and the desease has been spreading ever since.


  85. Philip_Daniel
    87 | May 10, 2010 2:53 pm

    vapig wrote:

    Unlike the secular islam…..

    The “secular” Islam indeed…

    “This is the aim of Jihad with the Jews and the Christians and it is not to force them to become Muslims and adopt the `Islamic Way of Life.’ They should be forced to pay Jizyah in order to put an end to their independence and supremacy so that they should not remain rulers and sovereigns in the land. These powers should be wrested from them by the followers of the true Faith, who should assume the sovereignty and lead others towards the Right Way, while they should become their subjects and pay jizyah…[The Islamic State] cannot allow that they should remain supreme rulers in any place and establish wrong ways and impose them on others. As this state of things inevitably produces chaos and disorder, it is the duty of the true Muslims to exert their utmost to bring to an end their wicked rule and bring them under a righteous order.”--Tafhim al-Qur’an (9:29), Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi

    Talk about “secularism”!

    Talk about “no establishment clause”!


  86. snork
    88 | May 10, 2010 2:53 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ RIX:

    Ludwig van Quack Quack is a coward for not coming here in his/her own person and saying so. What is he/she afraid of? It’s all virtual here. No one will bite…

    Chuckles will ban. That’s a worse fate than being bitten.


  87. 89 | May 10, 2010 2:54 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Ludwig van Quack Quack is a coward for not coming here in his/her own person and saying so. What is he/she afraid of? It’s all virtual here. No one will bite…

    He is afraid that chuck will ban him.
    Seriously.


  88. snork
    90 | May 10, 2010 2:55 pm

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    We’re not real Americans? And he served in what branch?

    The warmmongers.


  89. 91 | May 10, 2010 2:56 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    @ WrathofG-d:
    1.True. But modern, reform, exegesis conflates “soul” with “morality”. So do leftists.
    2.True. But that kind of nationalism offends human rights law and Geneva Conventions.
    3.If true, Israel is doomed. The content of being Jewish for many Israeli is identified with leftist morality and human rights law. Meanwhile secular, atheist, politically conservative Jews can provide a coherent theory of nationalism for Israel that takes full account of the history of the Jews.

    1. I do not define my world through the most depraved among us, nor do I excuse their depravity. The Reform, blah, blah, blah need to get with the program or like in Egypt they too will be left behind. More important than appeasing their depravity however is showing them the Light, and what they have been taught about Judaism is simply not true. Instead of back-patting our fellow Jews for their disgusting behavior, we must undo what Expulsion did to us. Even in the Liberal construct there is a lot of Religious (Orthodox) Judaism available. These “intellectuals” have forgotten where this sense of morality came from in the first place -- The Torah / The Jews!

    2. Those who worship The Nations, and serve gods other than G-d have always existed. The only difference is that now people accept, encourage, and appease them instead of calling them out for exactly what they are. Like I alluded to above, when the Jews left Egypt, 3/4 stayed behind (for numerous reasons), then in the desert a certain amount built the golden calf, then more sinned in the desert, then…. The point is that these unbelieved and dead weight have always been with us. The goal then is to bring everyone up. This however is the opposite of what most do today. We would rather join the filth in the gutter and then think we are really fun, and wise when we joke about sexing up our own, marrying out, bringing us all down etc.

    3. Israel is not doomed. I would have all Jews actually read Torah, and try being religious. I am confident that they will be shocked with the liberality, morality, beauty, and greatness they find. It is NOTHING that they have been taught it is. But those who would rather build golden calfs, and stay behind can do so. Unfortunately they will always be with us. But in a positive not, they have always been with us but we have flourished.


  90. 92 | May 10, 2010 2:56 pm

    @ Philip_Daniel:
    These people just can’t let go of the Dark Ages, as if its relevant to today. And they also believe all Christians are Jerry Fallwell followers.


  91. SciFiGuy
    93 | May 10, 2010 2:57 pm

    snork wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    @ RIX:
    Ludwig van Quack Quack is a coward for not coming here in his/her own person and saying so. What is he/she afraid of? It’s all virtual here. No one will bite…

    Chuckles will ban. That’s a worse fate than being bitten.

    Only Spacejesus/Charles can come over to the right side and post without worry. I believe they are one and same. Weighs about as much as two normal people but still only one..


  92. BuddyG
    94 | May 10, 2010 2:57 pm

    Philip_Daniel @53 wrote:

    Well, please ask them if there is any established, incontrovertible doctrine in any Christian sect which resembles the thorough and perpetual dogma of jihad al-talab wa’l-ibtida’ in Islam…

    Trying to reason with a leftist is a waste of time. Their worldview is based on advancing their agenda whatever it takes. Hype what they must. Ingore what they must. Excuse what they must. And false equivalance like this:

    “Radical Christianity is just as threatening as radical Islam in a country like America” /Rosie O’Donnell


  93. buzzsawmonkey
    95 | May 10, 2010 2:57 pm

    RIX wrote:

    He also says that we are nor real Americans

    A lewd wig is most authoritative on who is 100% a merkin.


  94. Philip_Daniel
    96 | May 10, 2010 2:58 pm

    RIX wrote:

    expressed concern about Obama policy toward Israel.
    Lud, ya think?

    But, as always, he asserted that “AGW is worse than Jihad”, the corollary of which is “the Party of Lincoln is worse for Israel than the Party of Jackson.”

    Whatever.


  95. 97 | May 10, 2010 3:00 pm

    @ RIX:

    That’s why even Party fanatics wind up in the Lubyanka before the Revolution is complete. They can’t keep the faith. It is sad :(


  96. 98 | May 10, 2010 3:02 pm

    Philip_Daniel wrote:

    Nevergiveup wrote:
    scum

    LOL thanks actually. I do housecleaning part time and didn’t know about lemon for shower curtains.

    No commentary necessary…


  97. Philip_Daniel
    99 | May 10, 2010 3:02 pm

    Rosie the Seditioner wrote:

    “Radical Christianity is just as threatening as radical Islam in a country like America” /Rosie O’Donnell

    Tell it to this Christian being beheaded in Somalia according to the ayatun and ahadith by fedayeen myopically-intent on achieving this and this.


  98. Philip_Daniel
    100 | May 10, 2010 3:02 pm

    Oh, here’s the link http://www.truthtube.tv/play.php?vid=2025


  99. Philip_Daniel
    101 | May 10, 2010 3:04 pm

    teacake wrote:

    LOL thanks actually. I do housecleaning part time and didn’t know about lemon for shower curtains.

    The corpulent lady in the video was us, the nasty soap scum and mildew the Borg Collective…


  100. 102 | May 10, 2010 3:04 pm

    SciFiGuy wrote:

    I believe they are one and same.

    I agree. I suspected as much, even before I was banned. I thought “Spacejesus” was a mask he used to tweak the lizards’ tails. Now I think that “Charles” is the mask. “Spacejesus” is the real thing.


  101. 103 | May 10, 2010 3:06 pm

    @ vapig:

    Religion is not immune from politics. There is leftist Christianity and rightist Christianity. There is plenty of room for Marxist interpretation of Jesus. All religious texts have enough ambiguity to allow for political manipulation. So do does the Constitution, which allows for religious manipulation.


  102. wolfie
    104 | May 10, 2010 3:09 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    A lewd wig is most authoritative on who is 100% a merkin.

    I am going to pretend I didn’t even read that!


  103. Philip_Daniel
    105 | May 10, 2010 3:09 pm

    BuddyG wrote:

    Rosie O’Donnell

    So tolerant, and what an impressive mental capacity!

    /s


  104. 106 | May 10, 2010 3:09 pm

    WrathofG-d wrote:

    we have flourished.

    “we have flourished.”

    Really?


  105. 107 | May 10, 2010 3:10 pm

    vagabond trader wrote:

    @ teacake:
    Had a Jewish friend who wouldn’t even look at vids or listen to reason. Just started screaming about me drinking the koolaide.In fact our last contact was an email she sent with the Rahmn Emanuel appointment.

    If it ever comes up again with her, you could say, maybe he put them in these positions so that everyone will hate and blame Jews all the more. Jews like that as everyone says, are progressives first and Jews last. I’d ask her if obama has any Jews on staff that support Israel.


  106. 108 | May 10, 2010 3:12 pm

    Wow. Check this shit out. Nancy Pelosie has, I don’t know what you call it, chutzpah? That seems mild for this. Check it out. Pelosie Galore is trying to tell the Roman Catholic Church what it must teach on immigration reform:

    Pelosi Says She’s Told Catholic Cardinals, Archbishops and Bishops They Must Tell Catholics Immigration Reform is a ‘Manifestation of Our Living the Gospels’
    Monday, May 10, 2010
    By Nicholas Ballasy, Video Reporter

    (CNSNews.com) -- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said she has told Catholic cardinals, archbishops and bishops that she wants them to speak from the pulpit for immigration reform and tell Catholics who oppose it that reform “is a manifestation of our living the gospels.”

    In her comments at the Catholic Community Conference on Capitol Hill on May 6, Pelosi specifically referenced illegal immigrants in America, saying as a practical matter, “we can’t say to people, 12 million of you, ‘go back to wherever you came from or go to jail.’”

    It seems that maybe “Seperation of Church and State” isn’t the Liberals’ most cherished “value”. I don’t know where this radical Abortionist thinks she’s going to get with this, but it takes a lot of something to try.

    They should excommunicate her for her arrogance, her blasphemy, and her apostacy. I feel that way, and I’m not Catholic.


  107. vagabond trader
    109 | May 10, 2010 3:13 pm

    @ teacake:

    Too late,I relieved her of my friendship.She is the type who is fraidy ascared of conservatives because we might,you know, own a gun. No patience for the coddling needed to sustain that kind of relationship.


  108. orangecrush
    110 | May 10, 2010 3:13 pm

    The basic argument to LVQ has to be get help. I think BSM gave him something solid to hang onto at 1.0 when he was there. LVQ needs some professional assistance.

    Short simple web pages detailing the mumbai attacks etc should be enough to convince jews if they are well informed or not. There are some rabbi’s who assist in hiding relevant information.

    Swinging left for someone jewish is pretty close to swinging from a gallows


  109. 111 | May 10, 2010 3:15 pm

    @ vagabond trader:

    She’d piss her pants if she ever met me in person. Think you could introduce us? It’d be highlarious as hell to watch :twisted: :evil: :twisted:


  110. orangecrush
    112 | May 10, 2010 3:17 pm

    @ 108 Iron Fist: The secular State as it grows and grows is increasingly intruding upon the traditional work of the Church. Is meglomania the correct term for Pelosi? not good for a supposed leader.


  111. buzzsawmonkey
    113 | May 10, 2010 3:18 pm

    wolfie wrote:

    I am going to pretend I didn’t even read that!

    Well, I still think it’s funny.


  112. 114 | May 10, 2010 3:19 pm

    @ vagabond trader:
    Gotcha.

    Recently after being defriended on FB by one of the lefties I know for making fun of the “stop blaming obama when its Bush’s fault” group -- turned out one of my other friends saw my comment and he de-friended me! He was just an on-looker to it. He had no idea how many times I kept my mouth shut about his stupidity! Before he moved to Austin he was wearing an arafat scarf and posting things on FB about the Israel boycott. All the years I knew him, he had no idea I was not on the left. lol None of my friends know that. I look like I fit in with the lefty crowd is one reason. lolol


  113. orangecrush
    115 | May 10, 2010 3:19 pm

    @ Philip_Daniel: I can’t even watch a Rosie ODonnel clip. She reminds me of an islamist who thinks islam invented everything and goes looking for non evidence to prove it.


  114. orangecrush
    116 | May 10, 2010 3:21 pm

    I’d say now that Bush did better with Katrina then Obama as done with the BP oil spill


  115. vapig
    117 | May 10, 2010 3:22 pm

    Overlook wrote:

    @ vapig:
    Religion is not immune from politics. There is leftist Christianity and rightist Christianity. There is plenty of room for Marxist interpretation of Jesus. All religious texts have enough ambiguity to allow for political manipulation. So do does the Constitution, which allows for religious manipulation.

    Well, we got on mighty fine without the tweakage. It’s only been the last 100+ years that everything has gone FUBAR.


  116. Philip_Daniel
    118 | May 10, 2010 3:23 pm

    orangecrush wrote:

    @ Philip_Daniel: I can’t even watch a Rosie ODonnel clip. She reminds me of an islamist who thinks islam invented everything and goes looking for non evidence to prove it.

    She basically makes fun of Chinese (the language and people) in the clip.

    She’s an insensitive, ignorant Philistine who revels in her willful idiocy.


  117. RIX
    119 | May 10, 2010 3:25 pm

    lobo91
    82 | May 10, 2010 14:49
    Ok, so we’re theocratic, Un American, Nazi scum.
    We are not getting the love from Ludwig.


  118. Philip_Daniel
    120 | May 10, 2010 3:25 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Pelosi Says She’s Told Catholic Cardinals, Archbishops and Bishops They Must Tell Catholics Immigration Reform is a ‘Manifestation of Our Living the Gospels’

    So, she has an M.Div. from an accredited theological seminary?


  119. orangecrush
    121 | May 10, 2010 3:25 pm

    @ 118 Philip_Daniel: Yes Rosie is one of those bigots who complains mightily about bigotry.


  120. RIX
    122 | May 10, 2010 3:29 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ RIX:
    That’s why even Party fanatics wind up in the Lubyanka before the Revolution is complete. They can’t keep the faith. It is sad

    The revolution must be purified.


  121. orangecrush
    123 | May 10, 2010 3:30 pm

    @ 119 RIX: I can’t take Ludwig seriously. I argued with him at 1.0 a little and sock friended him some. I initially respected his knowledge and then wised up over time when I started to view him as unable to reason well. He would rather emotionally bully, was very overly sensitive when proved wrong. Pretty much just like iceweasel.

    We view all those types of people as immature, lacking worldly experience, never having to account for themselves in the course of human affairs. It’s why a regular job would do them a world of good.

    LVQ coming here to debate does nothing really. Does he have anything constructive to say? The only achievable value is tar and feathering him.


  122. vapig
    124 | May 10, 2010 3:30 pm

    orangecrush wrote:

    I’d say now that Bush did better with Katrina then Obama as done with the BP oil spill

    He hasn’t even bothered to mention Nashville!


  123. BuddyG
    125 | May 10, 2010 3:32 pm

    @ Philip_Daniel @105:

    My brother-in-law is a Loony Lefist and spouts-off that Radical Christianity is just as dangerous as Radical Islam. If the topic of terrorism is broached, he inevitably brings up the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch trials, anti-abortion violence, and extremeists like Eric Rudolph.

    I counter that the Crusades and Inquisition were over a thousand years ago and not exactly current events. And that islam invaded Europe before the crusades. And that approximately 2,000 people were killed by the Spanish Inquisition over a period of 350 years. And that 19 people were killed in the Salem Witch Trials; (that’s right, nineteen). And that less than 10 abortion doctors have been killed. And that people who kill abortion doctors and extremists like Eric Rudolph are seen as loons by Christianity. I am a practicing Catholic and during Mass I’ve never heard the Priest (or anyone) call us faithful to arms, or encourage violent religious war against [whomever].

    But such retorts don’t change my brother-in-law’s view. His agenda, like Rosie O’Donnell’s, requires him to maintain false equivalence.


  124. RIX
    126 | May 10, 2010 3:33 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Ludwig van Quack Quack is a coward for not coming here in his/her own person and saying so. What is he/she afraid of? It’s all virtual here. No one will bite…

    Chuck won’t let him. Here is a grown man allowing some guy in California that he will never meet, dictate who he can talk to.
    It’s freedom Ludwig, you should try it. Come on over.


  125. RIX
    127 | May 10, 2010 3:38 pm

    orangecrush
    123 | May 10, 2010 15:30
    LVQ coming here to debate does nothing really. Does he have anything constructive to say? The only achievable value is tar and feathering him.

    Ludwig made it sound like he would come over here & kick ass & take
    names , but CJ just won’t let him.
    He would be here five minutes before he had a total melt down.


  126. 128 | May 10, 2010 3:59 pm

    @ orangecrush:

    Not to mention the Nashville Flood. Why should we mention it? The MSM and the Obama Administration sure won’t.


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