The Art of War by Sun Tzu, although written in the 6th century B.C. – has applications that are appropriate for today’s wars against the Islamofascists. The key quote is to “know your enemy and know yourself” – a concept that should be manifest to everyone. Instead we are stuck in a self imposed politically correct mindset which refuses even to properly identify the enemy. I still wish though that Israel would not be so self conscious of “public opinion” as it was in the Spring of 2002 when it underwent a massive and traumatic trial of almost daily suicide bombings until it finally decided to act. It’s earlier failure to act in a manner that any other proud nation would have done under similar circumstances, created doubts in the minds of its supporters and enemies as to whether the nation even viewed its cause as just.
by Jeff Dunetz
The last twelve months have seen a record number of terrorist plots targeting the U.S. mainland. Several succeeded or at least slipped past government counterterrorism efforts, failing only because of divine providence and the terrorists’ own incompetence.
Since the near-tragedy on Christmas Day, many have challenged the effectiveness of U.S. policy under President Obama. Some of the criticism has been valid — the mishandling of the no-fly list, moving trials and interrogations to the civilian court system, and the refusal of the administration to call our enemy by name (even in internal documents) are all symptoms of what’s wrong with America’s counterterrorism efforts.
Fighting against terrorists — who reject the basic moral and legal norms of civilized society — is inherently difficult for liberal democracies such as the United States, who must try to balance the protection of civil liberties and the prevention of violence.
Many of the issues in front of our policymakers have previously been faced by Israel, a country that has been under terrorist attack since its inception in 1948. Israeli counterterrorism efforts have a simple philosophy: “Do whatever it takes to identify and defend against potential attacks before they happen.” This approach does not change no matter the politics of the prime minister in power, which is a reflection of public support for the stance — for Israel, the fight against terrorism is a fight for its very survival. Thus its government and citizenry take a different view of counterterrorism, unencumbered by the political correctness which restrains efforts in the United States.
There would never be a debate in Israel regarding whether a terrorist should be questioned by civilian or military authorities — extracting information that will prevent the next attack is paramount. Debate is also virtually non-existent regarding whether certain ethnic groups should be watched more closely than others.
Over 2,500 years ago, Sun Tzu wrote in his The Art of War:
Know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril. When you are ignorant of the enemy, but know yourself, your chances of winning or losing are equal.
Read the rest: The U.S – can and must – learn from Israeli counter-terror
Tags: Jeff Dunetz, Sun Tzu
I believe The Art of War was once required reading by the generals of the Soviet Red Army. If that still holds, ours should do the same.
I hate to be a putz, but can we look inward today and concentrate on the elections till at least lunch?
Another timely one from Sun Tzu. He was big into knowing thy enemy.
Most people are ignorant of the nature of the enemy, because our leaders including Bush have misled them.
It is not a peaceful religion that has been hijacked & terrorism
is not a man made disaster.
@ Scott Madsen:
Question for you, is it better to enjoy Specter losing today or have him survive for Pat Toowmey to slap the snot out of in the Fall?
I want that insipid cretin Specter to go down, but……..
@ Scott Madsen:
All the threads after this one are about Domestic issues!
@ RIX:
When Bush said Islam is the religion of peace, we lost the war right there.
RIX wrote:
I think it is better yo let him win and then go down in flames against toomey, but I think he goes down for the count today, Sestak might be a tougher foe than Specter
@ vagabond trader:
That was exactly what I was going to point out. Under Obama we are both. Our civilian “leadership” is so damn ignorant that they are ignorant that they are ignorant. They think they actually know something. That is a very dangerous place to be. Socrates said the beginning of wisdom was the knowledge of one’s own ignorance. We can see no beginnings of wisdom from the Obama Administration.
@ Iron Fist:
Well said.It almost seems as though they are proud of their willful ignorance.The AZ immigration law is a recent example.
@ Rodan:
I would say, rather, that when we changed the name of Operation Infinite Justice to Operation Enduring Freedom we lost the inititive, if not the war. The fate of the war is still in doubt. We have the power to win, but not the will. If you look at it from an objective point of viewe it is an interesting study on the limits of power, isn’t it? A sword without the will to strike is less useful than a stone and the will to use it.
@ Iron Fist:
The eklites of Both Parties are Progressives who live in a delusion.
@ Rodan:
True enough that. Let’s hope that this year’s election sees some change in that leadership.
@ Iron Fist:
Exactly and we fought half ass. Instead of a War of Revenge that should of included Saudi Arabia and Iran, it became about Democracy and Human Rights. The war should be named American Vegence.
@ RIX:
Sestak is a total statist POS with a long life ahead of him who polls above Toomey.
Spedtor is a total twice proven Benedict Arnold self serving POS who is long in the tooth and polls below Toomey and is now hated by folks on both sides in PA.
I voted for Spector this morning to give Toomey a slow pitch in the General.
…amd on Sun Tzu. Obamas advisers will only apply his strategies domestically against their enemies, and not outward in defense of the US. Especially against his co-religonists.
And we are not Israel ( I lived there), we are still at the mall.
@ Iron Fist:
Exactly as much as some hate Rand Paul because of his Dad, I’m actually pulling for him. I want a message sent to the GOP establishemnt.
@ Rodan:
The only delusion is their self-importance. They know what they are doing and how to accomplish full control. They are getting away with total lawlessness and there doesn’t seem to be anything we can do about it. I wonder if voting out the Dems will help much in the big picture. Yeah, I’m not very optimistic.
@ Rodan:
Cool….thanks for the heads up.
@ Iron Fist:
This “Courageous Restraint Medal” is emblematic of our faltering will. How military leadership could even consider such a ridiculous bauble during a war that is far from over.
I bet Israel doesn’t have feel good rewards of merit.
@ Iron Fist:
In CT I don’t see McMahon as being any better than Blumenthal.
In other news…
The Hollyweird Left has spoken.
Hey Vagabond Trader, I hear your Democratic Candidate for Senate lied about his service record?
Scott Madsen wrote:
Israelis go to the malls all the time?
Hindsight, it seems useless to have gone into Iraq and Afghanistan. Should have turned Saudi Arabia and Iran into glass.
@ BenZacharia:
He also believes that Roman Polanski is getting a raw deal. Great pedophile minds think alike.
@ BenZacharia:
Read the comments at the FOX Allen article.
A lot of them ask why we should consider the opinions of a child molester
@ vagabond trader:
I’m catching up on my Rush Limbaugh podcasts, and by coincidence, I am listening to him discuss this ludicrous award right now. He called it the “Yellow Heart” and I would think he’s kidding but with this Commander in Chief, who the hell knows?
Scott Madsen wrote:
I think we should be considerate of their opinions. I would ask them if they want their dicks cut off or burned off? I’d go with either.
Candidate’s Words on Vietnam Service Differ From History
Bye BY!
@ Nevergiveup:
Its a beautiful thing.
Blumenthal is also a coward,he was destroyed in the one debate with Alpert and now refuses to do another one. We’ll see how it shakes out,CT voters are notorious useful idiots.
LOL
@ Rodan:
Me too. Even if he’s nuts as his Old Man, he’s just one nut. But it sends a message to the establishment that we are tired of their bullshit, tired of having to choose between Larry, Moe, and Kirly (but not our kirly
) knowing that no moatter who we elect we are getting a stooge. That ends this year, if the people will get out and vote. We can take this country back.
@ BenZacharia:
Progressives love tyrants. If they could, they would make Obama a dictator.
@ Carolina Girl:
Love it,only Rush. Seriously doesn’t this remind you of how every child gets a pat on the head award even if they lose at sports or flunk a subject?
@ teacake:
yay!
@ Carolina Girl:
Scott Madsen wrote:
re: A lot of them…
Those are conservatives. Progs have to prob following/supporting sexual sinners. Fornicators, adulterers, rapists, homosexuals and goat f*ckers.
vagabond trader wrote:
Neither did Genghis Khan. We need to get in touch with our inner Mongol if we want to win this fight.
@ teacake:
lmao! I’m telling you,it takes wimmin to stand up to these fascist cowards.Good,hope we see more of this.
@ Nevergiveup:
…I know they do in Herziliya, Tel Aviv, and even at Lev HaMeretz in Haifa (which is known locally as Scud Mall since it was hit during construction in GWI).
They still walk with their shit wire tight while doing so. Leave your wallet or cell phone unattended on a bench in an Israeli mall and see what the response of the citizenry over forty is. Drive into Ben Gurion (often the check point is open for all to pass who look right) and drop a McDonalds bag in a rubbish container and then leave without boarding and see if you make out of the exit check point unmolested.
Yeah, Israelis are self absorbed and materialistic too, they are humans afterall. But most of their heads are on a swivel and should be. We on the other hand mostly don’t know shit about the World except those who have the tee shirt or care to look around beyond their eyeliner or next cold one.
I do believe that had Bush characterized the enemy correctly & gone all
Charles Martel with overwhelming force(Syria) things would be a lot different.
@ Nevergiveup:
consideration is due
I don’t mean to go Sharmuta, but “I so totally agree with that.”
@ Nevergiveup:
We also have a very clear vid of him referring to his Vietnam service.Naughty naughty,these jerks never learn to skip the illicit sex or telling of lies whilst being filmed.
@ Scott Madsen:
I also have lived there and traveled there alot. And in many ways, I feel safer there than here. But I know what you mean. Always on guard. And your damn right, we should be that way here also.
The problem is that our government see’s citizens as the enemy and not the tyrants and dictators around the globe. I never thought that one day we would fear our government and that it has become the enemy.
texasam7 wrote:
“The Art of War” as well as Clausewitz’s “On War” are two timeless classics.
@ Scott Madsen:
Yeah, as much as it will annoy me, I want Specter to win.
Toowmey should take batting practice on Specter in the Fall.
I read that Sestak has ties to Moveon.org. A former Admiral?
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?
@ BenZacharia:
I call the Donks the 4F party…unfit for service: Freaks Foreigners Feminists and Fornicators
Segmented dissembling Gramscian grievence groups and nothing more.
I am going back to R on my registration to work on party delegates for 2012 now that the strategic voting in the last two cycles is over.
I was a dirty Dem for three years. Only way to have a voice in Allegheny County PA. Enough of that now, the stage is set, time to drop the cloak and pull the dagger
@ vagabond trader:
A few years back some show had a documentary about the saudi palace. Inside is a very different world. There are shopping malls inside of it, Saks was one of the shops as I recall. A massive place. All the women wandering about did not wear burkas or anything traditionally islamic. All the women were wearing very expensive, high fashion outfits.
Scott Madsen wrote:
There are plenty of election threads scheduled today.
@ Scott Madsen:
It was the same in Northern Ireland. I spent a few months there in the 70s,the people were great but you were always on high alert.Leave a car parked in Belfast Center,find smoking junk when you return.BA did not mess around then.
Rodan wrote:
Thanks. I hate it when my thread that I worked hard on gets hijacked after one post.
RIX wrote:
No point in Specter losing today and Sestak winning in November.
Will you be doing the Illinois Senate Race? We have a banker for the mob
& a RINO.
Just got an email from PFAW
@ teacake:
Ever since we slipped back into feudalism that danger has been ever present and no one we have voted for in our lifetimes have had any desire to reverse the universal ownership of property by the government.
RIX wrote:
I believe that will be covered by coldwarrior.
@ Speranza:
This is a good thread. Sun Tzu should be required reading in High School. I got lucky in one respect in my public education. My 10th grade history teacher was fabulous (Fabulous!
). She won National Teacher of the Year the year I had her. Machiavelli’s The Prince was required reading. The whole thing (it isn’t very long). I doubt that most of the people in either PArty have read it, and it is the consumate book on politics.
@ Nevergiveup:
I deffinately felt safer in the cities there too than here as to general crime, but was in condition yellow constantly for the reality of what could happen.
Two of the busses I rode have benn bombed since I left in 94, Haifa Pizzeria, Jerusalem talpiot and the Kikar Dizengof one all left me stricken, as places I once walked. Bastards ran hard Rock out of town with the last one.
Different world for sure and made me a better man for the three years I spent there.
We’ll never learn from Israel because we are well insulated from the horrors of daily terror threats. Sure they want to get us and probably will but it is simply not that urgent here. Too big and casual. When we went to war I thought big mistake not asking Americans to unite in some kind of sacrifice.Even selling bonds to help the effort would have resonated. Old school but effective imho.Could have paid for all the injured soldiers to get on with their civilian lives.
@ Speranza:
Thanks
Iron Fist wrote:
I took a graduate course in Military History at Brooklyn College in the 1970′s and my professor (a Hungarian officer who fought in the 1956 revolution and recently passed away) gave us both Sun Tzu and Clausewitz to read.
@ teacake:
Bet Chaz creamed his panties over that one. The only thing missing is a touch of Creationism. Heh™ Go Texas!
vagabond trader wrote:
The way we get obsessed over memorials (instead of killing our enemies) is very much unlike Isreal. In Israel after at error attack, the blood is cleared away quickly, shattered glass is cleaned up and people resume their normal business.
PIMF – In Israel after a terror attack
@ Iron Fist:
Another classic,The Prince.Bet you like this quote:
Iron Fist wrote:
The Prince seemed to be required raedig for all mafiosi wannabes.
@ Speranza:
I’ve read two or three different translations of The Art of War, including one by a General in the People’s Liberation Army. It was interesting to see how they wove Communist doctrine around it. I’ve got Clausewitz, but I’ve never had time to read it. I’m going into a cycle where I’m going to be studying the American Civil War very heavily, but maybe I can find time to get Clausewitz in. I’ve always known it is a book I should read. Another good one you may not have heard of is A Book of Five Rings by Miyamato Musashi. It is a bit more airy (for want of a better word), being Japanese, but it is still an interesting read. It isn’t terribly long.
@ Speranza:
lol.
I had a friend who fought in the 56 Hungarian revolt. Great guy, he knew the score.
I should probably break out the Art of War and the Prince in preperation for the next election cycle, if we Tea Party types assembling here are serious about pushing the Chamber of Commerce RINOs out of our districts chairs.
Top of the Summer reading list and might have to buy copies as they are buried among sixty boxes of books (single for fourteen years and never saw the inside of a sports bar).
@ vagabond trader:
I’ve lived by that ever since I was about 12 years old. Stark naked I’m still armed, even with the downturn in my health in recent years.
@ Iron Fist:
Love the commando warrior look!
Unlike World War II it is a small amount of the populace that is actually at war. There are no “Greetings” letters & the War has just dragged on & not affected the home front like the 40′s.
The media at times seem to be cheering for the other guys & images of 9/11 are hard to find.
IMO Bush should have gone hard in Afghanistan & sent a message to state sponsors by whacking Syria.
vagabond trader wrote:
A tragic part of post WWII history – the crushing of the Hungarian revolution and the 1968 crushing of the Prague Spring. Commies can be very cruel.
Iron Fist wrote:
If you are a Civil War buff we are going to be doing a Civil War blogmocarcy radio show on the Civil War in the near future.
In 1995 on a visit to Gettysburg I followed the path of the 15th Alabama in their attempt to take Little Round Top.
@ Speranza:
Indeed. Someone this morning commented on that azz Woody Allen. Where are the Hollywood movies documenting the countless millions slaughtered by Stalin and Mao,heroes of the left.
vagabond trader wrote:
We had a neighbor, till I was five, who fought in the ’56 revolt and escaped and was granted asylum here, name of Sabo. He nickname me Krushev. That should tell you enough about me.
vagabond trader wrote:
Woody wants Obama to be a dictator for a few years (yes he really said that). The guy has this phony image (thanks to Vincent Canby of the NY Times) as being an intellectual. I think he is not very bright at all. He and I both went (different decades!) to Midwood High School in Brooklyn.
@ BenZacharia:
@ RIX:
I agree.
Don’t know how much petitions help, but doesn’t hurt to sign. They need 5000 and have only 850 at the moment. Stop the mosque in NYC.
@ Speranza:
Progressives love dictators.
@ RIX:
He also should of gone after Iran and the Saudis. But he’s a Saudi stooge so he never would go against his peeps.
@ Speranza:
Unreal,I used to like some of his movies,what a toady.
@ Speranza:
Cool! Yes, Civil War buff is how you would describe me right now. I intend to expand my knowledge significantly in the next three years or so. It i s something that I have always wanted to study more in depth, and I feel that it has significant bearing on our society today. I use the term “Cold Civil War” to describe the entrenched enmity that we have between the Right and Left today (I don’t remember where I first heard it; I think it is an apt description). I’ve been to Gettysberg once, when I was a kid. I hope to go back sometime.
@ vagabond trader:
I would like to see an honest movie about the Weather Underground, one
that would make Ayers & Dohrn look like the sick, psychos that they
are.
Of course if Hollywood did that movie Ayers & Dohrn would be proletariat
heroes.
@ Speranza:
The husband might enjoy that, he is also a buff. We were at Gettysburg about 4 years ago. Awesome place.
I think that crushing Syria would have shocked the Saudis & Iranians.
I don’t know that a volunteer Army could produce enough troops for a land war in Iran.
vagabond trader wrote:
I’ve been there 3 times and 3 times to Antietam.
Iron Fist wrote:
I highly recommend a visit one day to Vicksburg Mississippi. The Civil War in the West is not given enough publicity. everyone thinks the war was fought only in Virginia/Pennsylvania/Maryland.
vagabond trader wrote:
The last really good Woody Allen movie was in my opinion 1987 – Radio Days.
Rodan wrote:
yes the Bush family and the Saudis have a rather unhealthy relationship.
I have read Sun Tzu, have the book on my shelf, and also have a audio book that I listen too at times.
“When distant, appear near. When near appear distant”.
Best line from Machivelli’s “The Prince”? “It’s better to be feared then loved”.
Still have to read Clausewitz’s “On War”, it’s also on my bookshelf. I believe Art of War and On War are required reading of all military colleges. If not some one needs to be smacked across the side of the head.
RIX wrote:
It’d depend on how serious we were about air preparation. We’d have Total Air Supremacy from almost the get go. Use B-2 to bomb the shit out of their air defenses, then hit them and keep hitting them for a while. We couldn’t do it in the way we tried to do Iraq, but, OTOH, if we did Iran, then Iran wouldn’t be next door supplying the “resistance” with IEDs and ammunition.
@ Speranza:
He’d like to visit the southern and western sites,maybe toward winter. We did visit one in Arizona,Picacho Pass.Never knew they fought that far west.
PaladinPhil wrote:
Better to be feared then loved is a classic line
Clausewitz was an adviser to Czar Alexander I of Russia during the invasion of Russia by Napoleon.
vagabond trader wrote:
There was a battle in very early 1862 in New Mexico territory called Glorieta Pass. I think that is what you are referring to.
@ vagabond trader:
I also was always fascinated by the New York City Draft Riots of July 13 – 16, 1863.
@ Iron Fist:
It would be a great step forward in the WOT to bring down the Mullahs
in Iran. I take your point on air supremacy & we could destroy their Naval fleet.
Best case would be to coordinate with elements of the Iranian Army
& cause a coup.
teacake wrote:
An ‘Inglorius Basterds’* solution is to my liking.
* Alternate history movie.
@ vagabond trader:
One day if you are a history buff you need to visit the Little Bighorn (Custer’s last Stand) in Montana.
@ Speranza:
It was more a squirmish:
http://www.wtj.com/articles/picacho/
Weren’t the draft riots partly in response to favored treatment of the wealthy in getting their sons exempt from the draft?
vagabond trader wrote:
There are more people that participate in the re-enactments there than were in the actual battle, which was really a skirmish between scouting parties from Confederate Tucson and Yankee Prescott.
Speranza wrote:
. . . i thought Wyoming. No?
@ RIX:
That would depend on the elements we worked with. Anything that leaves Iran’s nuclear and terror infrastructure intact doesn’t help us much. We need to dismantle the funding of Hamas and Hezbollah and take out their nuclear capacity. If we make life in general better fo rthe Iranian people in the process that’s all well and good, but that isn’t my primary objective.
vagabond trader wrote:
yes. I f you had $300 you could buy an exemption.
@ The Osprey:
Yeah,I know a few guys and gals around here who enjoy re-enacting Civil War or Revolutionary battles.We have a few of the latter around here.Lexington isn’t too far either.
@ RIX:
We could Firebomb them.
spinmore wrote:
It is in Montana. an hours drive east of Billings on I-90 near the town of Hardin.
I would understand Israels reticence to act at this point. Her one time strongest ally has become her greatest detractor. Obama has made it clear that he supports Iran and others over Israel. I think at this point Israel needs to act in her own best interest and be damned what Obama and his sycophants think about it.
Speranza wrote:
Nope. Two different engagements.
Battle of Picacho Peak
Battle of Glorieta Pass
Rodan wrote:
We need to get Iranians to overthrow that awful government.
@ Speranza:
Always wanted to visit Big Sky country.Love the west.If we can,Arizona is on the agenda next spring.Scr@w the boycott.
@ BenZacharia:
I hope some one blows it up.
@ Speranza:
They certainly tried a few months ago.
@ The Osprey:
I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. Never heard of Picacho Peak.
Speranza wrote:
. . . could i be thinking ‘Little Big Horn’? i’m Googling now
Morning folks!
Drafts and stoploss orders are the abomination of slavery.
“I have to enslave you to stop slavery.” is as dump as GW’s remarks about destroying freemarkets to save them.
vagabond trader wrote:
I feel a need to show solidarity with Arizona.
@ The Osprey:
There weren’t Buffalo Soldiers at either were there? Years ago driving along a road in AZ with my mother, out of a cloud of dust a group of black guys on horseback and in uniform galloped alongside the car for a while. It was a thrilling surprise!
Rodan wrote:
Right along with the Fuhrer.
@ vagabond trader:
I have friends in Montanna. I hope to visit them sometime. Maybe go hunting. I haven’t been hunting since I was a kid
spinmore wrote:
There are two ways “Little Bighorn” and “Little Big Horn” of writing it. Little Bighorn though I think was the way it was referred to in 1876.
Its been a while Rightside!
@ Rightside:
Morning Rightside!
@ Iron Fist:
G-ds country I’m told.
Yes, but won’t happen while the U.S Ptr5esident sucks up to
the Mad Mullahs.
@ teacake:
Yes it has, but with hard work and a positive attitude, we can rid ourselves of this miserable president.
@ vagabond trader:
Hi VT :^)
Never happen though. IMO we need to support the resistance, arm them &
provide air support.
RIX wrote:
Maybe the Iranian Armed Forces can turn on him.
vagabond trader wrote:
I don’t think the Buffalo Soldier units were raised until after the Civil War. They were more a part of the Indian Wars in the 1870′s. There is a statue dedicated to the Buffalo Soldiers at Fort Huachuca, IIRC.
@ Speranza:
Do you think an overthrow would deter their nuke ambitions? I’m not so sure they’d be much friendlier.
@ The Osprey:
Thanks,thought so. I think the guys we saw were making a commercial or something. It was a blast from the past,very authentic.
vagabond trader wrote:
They could not be any worse.
.
Yeah, if things get better for the Iranians great! But we need to act
in our national interests.
Rightside wrote:
Rightside….
@ Speranza:
True,with room for improvement,unlike the rigid insane sobs ruling there now.
[...] Learning from Sun Tzu and Israel › 2.0: The Blogmocracy [...]
I don’t think that we know where the sympathies of the Iranian Armed Forces are & we should.
WrathofG-d would love this:
I agree. The rest of the article is pretty good, too. I’d go further and state that Liberals in general are helping to create conditions that will bring about the greatest slaughter the planet has ever seen. They are apparently blind to how their actions enable the terrorists to better kill people. Witness Obama’s love affair with Iran. That is going to result in a general war in the Middle East. He not only doesn’t seem to care, he seems to want to encourage Iran. It is frightening to watch this motherfucker setting up the foundations for WWIII.
@ doriangrey:
Dorian!
vagabond trader wrote:
Maybe it was these guys: American Buffalo Soldiers Re-enactors Association
For those that have never read it: The Art of War, english translation 1910, Giles. It’s my preferred one, as it keeps in context with the original wording.