US Government Wasted Billions in Rebuilding Iraq
h/t: NoThreat2U
By Kim Gamel, AP
KHAN BANI SAAD, Iraq — A $40 million prison sits in the desert north of Baghdad, empty. A $165 million children’s hospital goes unused in the south. A $100 million waste water treatment system in Fallujah has cost three times more than projected, yet sewage still runs through the streets
As the U.S. draws down in Iraq, it is leaving behind hundreds of abandoned or incomplete projects. More than $5 billion in American taxpayer funds has been wasted — more than 10 percent of the some $50 billion the U.S. has spent on reconstruction in Iraq, according to audits from a U.S. watchdog agency.
That amount is likely an underestimate, based on an analysis of more than 300 reports by auditors with the special inspector general for Iraq reconstruction. And it does not take into account security costs, which have run almost 17 percent for some projects.
What a waste!
We need to rebuild America, and we can do it only by restraining our spending, by cutting the deficit, by deregulating, and by lowering taxes.
“Foreign aid” is one place where we need to stop spending money. I do not mean that we should merely “cut” spending, I mean that we should stop entirely. That also means not a penny more for QUANGOs or NGOs such as USAID.
Nation-building = EPIC FAIL
Presidents in both parties like to use the often illusory and temporary benefits that the US government provides for overseas beneficiaries as a PR move and sometimes a backdrop for photo ops. Too bad nobody ever asks the American people whether we want or can afford to spend this money.
The amount of waste, graft, and simple incompetence taking place place on government projects overseas tends to be even higher than that which takes place on the same type of government project at home. One reason is that distance is always and everywhere the enemy of accountability. The other reason is that the US has so often been trying to modernize Islamic countries, which is inherently impossible to do without eliminating Islam. This is one area where I do fault George W. Bush and Condoleezza Rice. Due to their backgrounds in the oil industry, and due to their indoctrination in the fraudulent Wilsonian ideology, neither one of them is intellectually, emotionally, or spiritually capable of comprehending the threat that is Islam.
Money sent to Islamic nations is not received with gratitude. It is interpreted either as an attempt at manipulation on the part of the Judaeo-Christian West, or as a form of jizya and a sign of weakness and dhimmitude.
Any US government spending overseas costs us heavily at home. We cannot afford it; more often than not, it is counterproductive; and the sooner we put an end to it, the better.
GWB and the Republican Party have paid the price for these fruitless attempts at ‘nation-building’.
The exchange of comments that appeared on a prior thread on 2.0: The Blogmocracy, regarding this very issue, underline my point:
1389AD wrote:
Speranza wrote:
Rodan wrote:
@ 1389AD:
Bush has a Progressive Pro-Islamic Wilsonian foreign policy. He really believed they would love Democracy.Islam and democarcy are not compatible.
Islam and anything other than Islam (with the proven historical exception of Nazism) are not compatible.
(Visit this link to read the other comments.)
What to do?
Our politicians must be taught the lesson that ‘nation-building’ is always and everywhere doomed to fail. But that will happen if, and only if, people like ourselves hold their feet to the fire.
If you are an American, I ask that you write, call, or better yet, VISIT the offices of your US Senators and your US Representative. Tell them NO more tax dollars should go to foreign aid or nation-building, and that the money should go instead toward deficit and tax reduction. If you visit their district offices, you will usually be able to talk with a staffer. That’s just fine – the staffers relay constituent concerns to the legislator, and your message will get through.
Tags: foreign aid, government waste, Wilsonians
Here we are nearly bankrupt not just in money either. And we are handing out suitcases full of money to our enemies. I am sick of it. I think that is the second thing to stop right after term limits.
Islam and freedom are not compatible. Democracy is not the most important thing. It does not matter if you elect the specific Mullah who is in charge of deciding who gets stoned for adultry, which gays to throw off of buildings, and which infidels to behead. It doesn’t matter if you get to dye your finger purple because you voted under a Constitution that is founded on Shari’ia. There is where we failed in both Iraq and Afghanistan. We needed to systimatically root out political Islam wherever we found it, and instead we allowed them to found their constitutions on the very thing we needed to be fighting. OK, we’ve tried the experiment, and it failed. Maybe it was worth they try. I will leave that to heads wiser than I. We’ve tried it and failed. Can we now get on with the task of destroying political Islam (that would be all Islam in its current form), and rooting it out wherever it is? Can we at least agree to do that in the Umnited States? I’d settle for securing our own house against this evil for now. Let Europe stand or fall on her own. Let’s take care of the problem here and now (and that includes securing our borders against invasion), and then we can worry about the rest of the world.
Iron Fist wrote:
Applauding your post
Sorry can’t agree here. We should not cut foreign aid completely. It is an important aspect of a succesful foreign policy. The USA might not have always done it intelligently but that is another story. And I think the term “Nation Building” is often over used. Getting rid of a bad and overtly anti-USA regime is sometimes a good thing and what is installed later id often a crap shoot. Always was and always will be.
Nevergiveup wrote:
The trouble is, foreign aid has become weapons building aid. Instead of money just send food. Rations.That is all we should ever give them.
It is really too soon to tell if nation building in Iraq and Afghanistan has been successful or not. Yes, there are disappointments such as tribalism and corruption, however these people are now free to elect their leaders. They are no longer just serfs who labor forever to please a dictator. Unfortunately, Islam is still a major part of their governments and it has not proven itself to be particularly compatible with democratic rule. That does not mean it is impossible. We will know more in the next five or ten years as to whether or not our efforts were in vain.
Grimcargo wrote:
Well as I said how foreign aid is distrubuted and administrated is a problem for sure, but that does NOT mean the concept is totally Fubar. Fix it
@ tunnelrat:
And I think calling what we did/are doing in Iraq and Afgansitan “Nation Building” was a mistake. All we should be trying to do is drag them slightly into the 21st Century and try to show them how good life can be if they civilize themselves, but ultimately the decision is theirs.
tunnelrat wrote:
I wish I shared your sentiment but I don’t. I think if and when we ever leave they will go back even further than they were when we first arrived. Some people can’t live with democracy. That is sad but it is true. The only thing those folks understood was what they had. Saddam.
Grimcargo wrote:
As I said above “nation building” and ” creating democracies” are the wrong terms. We should never have used them. What we can hope for is to impress upon them 2 facts 1) life can be good if the behave 2) if they misbehave and fuck with the USA and USA interests we can will bury them. Very simple really.
@ Grimcargo:
Even that is really fungible. You take pressure off of them with food, that frees up resources that would have been used to get/distribute food and/or keep the population down to do other things. Like plan terrorist attacks, build nuclear weapons, and all those things that we’d rather them not do. Make no mistake: I agreed with taking out both Afghanistan and Iraq. I think we should have turned Afghanistan into a depopulated, radioactive hell for their part in 9-11. The people in Afghanistan are just as culpable as the people in Japan were in Pearl Harbor. Now we are negiotiating with the Taliban on how we can “reintegrate” them into Afghan Society. You can’t look at that as anything other than an EPIC FAIL.
Iraq is somewhat different. We had to take out Saddam Hussein. The situation was untenable, and allowing him to survive and come out of sanctions was not a reasonable alternative. OTOH, I don’t buy into Colin Powell’s “You broke it, it’s yours” attitude towards post-Saddam Iraq. Fuck ‘em. But to the extent we were going to help them get on their feet, keeping them rom founding their Constitution on Shari’ia Law should have been a no-brainer. Shari’ia and Freedom are completely incompatible. You can have one or the other. They can’t both exist in the same region/country/world.
@ Nevergiveup:
The problem with them is that they base everything on sharia. This mean they will NEVER make it as a truly modern country that respects rights. They start off with the handicap of removing half of their population (women have no or limited rights) Add to that other religious minorities are not allowed to do anything and you reduce the productive population even more. There is no way the islamic wolrd will ever be anything more than a parasite.
MikeA wrote:
Well we kinda give them the same message that Klaatu gave to the World in the first ( and only good ) “The Day The Earth Stood Still”: To paraphrase–If they want to kill each other OK, but if you start exporting your death crede we will bury you!
In other news, 1 in 6 Americans is on the government tit.
@ Nevergiveup:
That is the message we need to give them. If you play nice, we will be nice. If they play mean, we will destroy you.
And I agree, the remake was terrible…
honorable men tried to do the right thing and try to bring afghanistan and iraq out of their tortured past. the honest and heroic effort was rebuked and failed not because we, the west failed, but because the receivers of the aid failed.
we have learned a very valuable lesson.
MikeA wrote:
Yeah not only totally Green Shit Liberal bullshit but a lousy movie
MikeA wrote:
exactly.
they had their chance to behave like humans,now they are to be treated as they deserve.
coldwarrior wrote:
We have.But not the very same idiots are still controlling what happens.The ones who are elected and stay there til they die.
@ coldwarrior:
amen
@ Grimcargo:
it takes a while to back away and quit failed foreign policy. its like watching a junkie try to quit smack.
Grimcargo wrote:
I would make it the very FIRST thing to stop.
Term limits won’t do us any good unless we also end the “civil service” system that allows unelected bureaucrats to become entrenched. This brings about the danger of tyranny by unelected bureaucracy.
I personally prefer recall elections to term limits. Here are some of my other reasons for this:
Not term limits, but recall elections
@ Grimcargo:
Hear hear!
coldwarrior wrote:
Yes, stick with the Charlie Wilson’s War Model.
BuddyG wrote:
What’s Charlie Wilson’s War Model?
coldwarrior wrote:
True, WE have learned – I am not so sure that our GOVERNMENT has learned anything.
beck is on now
talking about wearing the bullet-proof vest for his wife
and how Dr kings niece was terrified but chose not to wear one
wow
@ coldwarrior:
If we will back that up, then the experiment was worth it. But we have to back that up, and that starts at home. We have to resist the Islamic colonization that is going on right here in the United States.
o/t ” We can do this the hard way or the easy way ” Was that Dirty Harry? Why no. That is what Ken Vogel of Politico said to Robert Spencer as he was investigating their funding. Imagine that tough talk coming from a little man behind a computer BOOO and he dies on the spot.
And why didnt he investigate how Obama came to have the money to go to Harvard?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/
Nevergiveup wrote:
Arm an indigenous group and avoid direct U.S. involvement.
Nevergiveup wrote:
The US government cannot do much to convert people from an evil ideology masquerading as a religion, until such time as we stop recognizing it as a religion.
@ rain of lead:
Oh, I could see a Leftist popping him. Real easy. The Left are the violent Revolutionaries, after all.
@ MikeA:
THIS is what we should have done, and what we should do in the future.
@ Iron Fist:
the pucker factor for his security must have been through the roof
rain of lead wrote:
People want Glenn Beck dead. You can believe it.The brain dead liberals such as Hen Johnson ramps up the hate speech against him hoping someone who is unhinged enough will take the final step. Hen probably would except his cowardice overcomes his mental illness.
BuddyG wrote:
Yeah but that ultimatley did not work out so well. Since after we armed those fighting the Soviets, we kinda abandoned them and that lead, if not directly, at least indirectly to the Taliban taking over. Actually if i remember what Charlie Wilson championed, it was NOT to abandon the Afgans after the Soviets were driven out but to help them try to establish some sort of workable Gov.
Nevergiveup wrote:
I take a far more radical stance here.
Our foreign policy should be limited to defeating and eliminating foreign enemies (be they ‘legitimate’ government entities or other armed and dangerous enemies such as al Qaeda or foreign gangs). I say we don’t even need a State Department, which has become thoroughly infiltrated with pro-Muslim moles. We can let our weapons and our nuclear deterrence do all the talking that we need to do.
Nevergiveup wrote:
You can equate those who follow the sharia and/or Q’ran to African Bees. The only way to have them live in a peaceful society is to remove their stinger. Their stinger would be their God. And that’s not going to happen. Bomb their arses back to camels and not trucks/planes. That will work much better.
@ Nevergiveup:
The U.S. assisted local Afghans, and it eventually drove out the Soviets. Good job.
As for now, fu*k Afghanistan. Take out our troops and $top the aid. But, support the Northern Alliance tribes (or whomever will work with us) and keep the Predator Drones attacks going.
@ 1389AD:
We certainly can’t do it while proclaiming it is a Religion of Peace™ By their fruits you shall know them. That is basic wisdom, regardless of your faith or lack thereof. The fruit of Islam is violence, oppression, and death. It is incompatible with individual liberty. Period. Which means it is incompatible with Western Culture. We are seeing that played out in Europe even as we speak. They will have a more difficult time of it here. Here the civillian populace is heavily armed, and getting more armed by the day. They won’t impose Shari’ia here, not directly, but they will try to set up their little enclaves, like they are trying to do in Murfreesboro and have done to a degree in places like Deerbournistan. This mus t be resisted, and I’m, proud to say that in Tennessee it is being resisted. We will not quietly submit while Somolian culture is imported into our state.
BuddyG wrote:
Actually I pretty much think that should be our statigary as President Bush would say.
@ Nevergiveup:
wilson’s aim was the soviets out and the afghanis self governing. if massoud isnt murdered, afghsnistan is a very different place now
@ 1389AD:
We need to go back to having a War Depoartment, instead of a Department of Defense. There is offense and defense. By taking the first half out of the equasion, you are giving the inititive over to the enemy. He can choose when and where and how he attacks to his greatest advantage. We should never allow that again. That was one thing Bush got right. Premptive war is smart war.
Grimcargo wrote:
Some people have wanted me dead, too, merely on account of my small-scale blogging and commenting activities. I admit I push the envelope pretty far when it comes to policy suggestions, but somebody has to do it. I am trying to expand the limits of what is considered to be legitimate topics for debate in the political sphere.
That’s one reason why I preserve some degree of anonymity online at this point. We have had some security issues, some related to the blog, others just from individuals with a history of mental illness.
oh snap!
the left is shitting their pants over Becks rally
In the wake of Glenn Beck’s hugely successful Restoring Honor rally held in Washington, D.C. this weekend, the Huffington Post has published an offer of $100,000 to anyone with evidence that would destroy Beck’s reputation and take him off the political/cultural battlefield
no comment needed
@ Nevergiveup:
We shouldn’t even be involved in the Islamic countries. Dar AL islam is our enemy.
We should focus on Latin America, where the cultures are similiar to ours.
coldwarrior wrote:
Fuck the Muslim world.
coldwarrior wrote:
Yeah but from what I remember and Wilson even confirms, we pretty much cut most funding to Afgansitan after the Soviets cut and run. And Massoud wasn’t killed till right before 9/11. The Taliban were already in control and Al Quada was already all over Afganistan.
Grimcargo wrote:
The one country we should give Foreign Aid to is ISRAEL. And if we do give food to other nations, the Mohammedan countries should get SPAM®.
Rodan wrote:
Isolationism didn’t work before WW1 or WW2 and in the Nuclear Age would be damn foolish. But we can also focus on Latin America. We can be a great county again, we just need the proper leadership.
1389AD wrote:
I don’t blame you at all for being careful. I,myself have some very hard views but I am not giving them up for anything.I will keep saying it and willing to personally back it up.
@ Nevergiveup:
The Pakistani ISI made the situation owrse there by supporting and creating the Taliban. The problem is our polcies are pro Pakistani. We should cut Pakistan off and solidify our alliance with India.
A new avatar, in honor of MandyManners, late of LGF, and of the next victims of the upcoming purge.
@ mfhorn:
Dang, it hasn’t updated yet.
Macker wrote:
How about Hoghead cheese for dessert?
@ Nevergiveup:
I’m not calling for Isolationaism. I am calling for containment of teh Islamic world. It’s time to recognize they are an enemy. We should not be involved with them. Our policie should be to support Israel, support Non Islmaic states surrounding them, causing divisions and anarchy so they fight each other and giving refugee status to persecuted Christians.
Rodan wrote:
True.
@ Nevergiveup:
Agreed and we should stop being in Muzzies.
@ Nevergiveup:
hindsight…
Rodan wrote:
No argument there
@ 1389AD:
Pakistan is an enemey. They should be cut off, fuck them. I like India, they are better people.
Grimcargo wrote:
Sounds good to me.
Rodan wrote:
Um…wouldn’t that kinda hurt?
/snicker
@ mfhorn:
I can’t wait to see it. She needed to get the ell out of there and she will feel much better for it.
@ Nevergiveup:
Agreed since India is an actually Democracy that mirrors ours. I liked McCain’s idea of a Leaugue of Democratic nations.
Rodan wrote:
OK but containment involves a certain amount of involvement and there is that tricky little thing of oil.
@ mfhorn:
What does it say?
Nevergiveup wrote:
hahah do you believe I used to eat that *****with crackers and it was delicious and then I found out what it was. Made me puke. But I think it is a delicacy some places.
@ Nevergiveup:
Tamapa and Yankees still tied for 1st. Man we can’t shake off teh Rays and will probably see them in the AL Championship.
@ mfhorn:
I saved that site but the text is too small for a good avitar
@ 1389AD:
This is what I have been arguing for since 12 Sept 2001. We should have made an EXAMPLE out of Afghanistan, and left no two stones standing on top of one another, nor anyone alive to rebuild the desolation. That would have sent a message.
Nevergiveup wrote:
Rodan wrote:
Looks that way
@ Nevergiveup:
Yeah, it not as simple as I’m making it out either. What my issue is how we seem to side with Muzzies over Non Muzzies at the expense of nations that are our natural allies like Israel and India.
I’m just venting!
Grimcargo wrote:
That is really not how we contained the Soviets. There were proxy wars, our subs trailing theirs and visa versa, and alot of dirty tricks.
@ Nevergiveup:
The Sunday NFL thread is coming back and our show is moving to Wednessday Nights, 8:30-10:30. The first half hours will be sports talk.
@ Macker:
They will all get banned some day because CJ is a Sandlot Stalin’
@ rain of lead:
Yeah, it’s smaller than I’d like. Can this site make any kind of change so that avatars can be viewed as a larger image?
Rodan wrote:
We must stop participating in the UN refugee program. Any refugees we accept on our own must be non-Muslim.
Jihad plotter came to Norway in UN refugee program and became Norwegian citizen
I see President Urkle is trying to turn conversation towards his birth certificate. Losing everything else. Not going to work. The mass cares not for that anymore. The mass cares to hamstring this sob Nov.2 and make him useless except for his big mouth and executive orders.Which can at least be overturned.
@ Nevergiveup:
effective foreign policy requires dealing with some very nasty people some times…and some trickery and the occasional outright lie.
as for the soviets anad the taliban…the taliban were not on the map when the cia was helping to fight the soviets, they cam along afterward, when we disengaged and the pakis took over
@ 1389AD:
We should give refuge to Christians from the Islamic world. Us not helping the Chaldean Christians in Iraq is one of the worst things that came out from that. We didn’t give them refuge in America. They know Arabic and understand the mindset. We should take them in.
Rodan wrote:
I don’t care if a nation is ‘democratic’ (a republic) or not – I have no problem with monarchies and the like.
A league of non-totalitarian nations (excluding Islam, Communism, and Nazism) would make more sense.
mfhorn wrote:
I would say most of those deranged posters are muslims. If not muslims, they are pro muslim. Only a couple that I know might be banned and they have absolutely no self respect. Especially those over there who say they live in the South.They might live there but they sure as hell AIN’T NO SOUTHERNER!
@ Grimcargo:
i hope no one on th right bites at this shiny lure the rpes is using to deflect real criticism. its a false flag.
coldwarrior wrote:
The problem, IMO, is that we worked with Pakistan all along. They can NEVER be trusted.
@ Nevergiveup:
Not to mention enough nuclear firepower to vaporize them several times over pointed at them. It is funny how all the people who talk about containment always ignore that part of it.
@ Rodan:
How ’bout Dem Lions!
coldwarrior wrote:
Yeah that is what I said. They came along and took over when we disengaged. Benign neglect is not always a wise thing
coldwarrior wrote:
Nasty foreign policy ought to include assassination look at the lives it would save. And that argument about having that policy would encourage someone to assassinate our President is not true. If they could they would. (that does not include Obama.Why would they lose their best friend?)
@ Macker:
If we start feeding Dems to the lions, well, there’s an arena sport I can get behind…
@ 1389AD:
20 20 hindsight is a pain, no?
the pakis were a tool to use against our enemy. it was absolutely necessary to work with the pakis on that occasion.
1389AD wrote:
That makes it a little tricky. One man’s Monarchy is another man’s Family Rule. Better to just stick to Democracies.
coldwarrior wrote:
I think the bell has been rung on the right for President Urkle.There is no going back. He is trying to invoke sympathy and that train has left the station as well.
Grimcargo wrote:
the pendulum swings unstoppably and relentlessly.
Nevergiveup wrote:
I also have no problem with governments like that of Pinochet under Chile, that were not “democracies” in the usual sense, but were mildly authoritarian bulwarks against leftist totalitarianism.
I would rather define the alliance as what the alliance is AGAINST, namely communism, nazism, and Islam.
@ Grimcargo:
We always say that doing nasty stuff would encourage our enemies to do nasty stuff, but they do that anyway. The North Vietnamese violated the Geneva Convention repeatedly, and no one cared. But we use harsh language to a Jihadi, and it is a case for the world court? Fuck that. When our enemies start behaving like civilized folk, maybe we can go back to fighting them like civilized folk, but until such time as that happens, fuck them. Waterboard away! And if they hide behind civillians to shoot at our troops, well, the civilians could wrestle the terrorist to the ground, take away his weapon, and turn him over to our troops. If they won’t do that, they are part of the problem, so if life gets nasty, brutish, and short for them, they have a problem.
Wish I knew how to do it. I would make a commercial for the GOP. Split screen of the troubles we are facing. The gulf oil spill. No jobs. For each of those on split screen, a different picture of Obama eating something. Pies.Ice cream. Chicken.
@ Iron Fist:
and there is the crux…it is better to be feared or loved in foreign relations?
coldwarrior wrote:
As a Slav, I think we should have worked MUCH harder to roll back the Iron Curtain in Europe, rather than wasting our time with the Afghans. We should have supported both Hungary and Czechoslovakia in force.
@ Grimcargo:
And cake. Don’t forget the cake.
@ 1389AD:
AGreed, a League of Non Islamic countries!
Macker wrote:
But that is for ESTER! Let them eat cake!
@ 1389AD:
And my wife and I are about to support the Czech Republic!
@ Rodan:
How about the League of Infidels!
coldwarrior wrote:
Love is for INDIVIDUALS. It makes no sense in terms of governments.
Trying to get foreigners to ‘love’ the US is a dangerous waste of time, money, and lives.
Just for starters, Muslim individuals and countries are INCAPABLE of loving the US in any meaningful sense.
I vote for fear.
@ 1389AD:
i have relatives on my wife’s side that were soviet army in afghanistan. they have told me that that loss was so devastating to the military that it was going to take 20 yrs to recover. the heroine/alcohol/and mental problems that that war did to the soviet army is one of the main reasons that the cold war ended.
Time for me to get busy. You can’t let Littlegeenfoots build up in your stalls because it stinks like an sob. And nothing but nothing feels kindly towards that. Here’s my parting shot though.
Somewhere…Who the hell knows where..a village is missing an idiot.
And Sanford and Son is missing Ester.
Macker wrote:
Good for you!!
I hate to leave the party here, but I need to get ready for work.
See y’all later, I hope!
Macker wrote:
heh…i own a cz-52…nasty fast round there
@ 1389AD:
The AFghans are pedophiles, they can fuck off.
Hey guys just a driveby to say hello!
Had one helluva fun time last night on here!
BBL
Macker wrote:
I’m all for that!
@ coldwarrior:
Always better to be feared, at least if you look at the 5000 or so years of human history for a guide. If they love you, they may not pilliage you a, kill all your men, and sell your women into slavery, but they won’t necessarily do anything to stop a nation/state/emperor they fear from doing so. Even our allies should fear to cross us. That is best.
@ coldwarrior:
Hey Phillip Daniels makes his debut today.
@ 1389AD:
Obama’s unilateral betrayal of Poland and the Czech Republic will come back to haunt us. Obama really is worse than Carter, he just hasn’t quite had the 444 Days of Shame test to fail yet. I have no doubt that he will be presented with that kind of oppertunity before he leaves office, and I have no doubt that he will fail that test.
Rodan wrote:
its about time!
hooooorayyyyy!!!!!!!!
Ten percent waste for government projects is not bad at all; try getting that kind of efficiency in Louisiana. It will be far worse in Afghanistan once that account is audited; they have corruption down to a science. Nevertheless a better approach is a free market approach, Free Cities.
nation building, or rather what i think nation- ‘rebuilding’ has worked in the past. germany, japan, heck most of western europe, south korea seemed to do just fine. ideologies shifted, monies was put into a system that while not perfect by any means, has helped them to stabilize. so i dont think trying in afghanistan or iraq was a bad idea. i mean heck, during vietnam the southern half of that country wasnt doing too shabby.
but i have to say that afghanstan and iraq have failed themselves. still too wrapped up in 7th century tribal bullshit and not able to unify. they had their chance, a damn good chance to come out from the shadows and they fucked up, fuck em….well except for the kurds.
Well, this is interesting:
I want to know what is up with all the secrecy around this. It isn’t national security related, I don’t think. More likely, they are protecting the reputations of the precious Muzz “charities”. You’ll note that none of the people involved will actually condemn Hamas. Just like the guy building the Victory Mosque at Ground Zero, these peopel reply that Hamas is difficult. They blow themselves up to kill little girls at birthday parties. What can possibly be difficult about condemning that?
@ excommunicator:
Germany and Japan were alraedy developed nations and had a history of participative governments. To compare Iraq and Afghanistan to them is compating apples and oranges.
Islam is not compatible with our way of thinking.
Obama’s Stimulus Plan cost more than the Iraq War
Stimulus Plan
BuddyG wrote:
And that, of course, is George W. Bush’s fault!
/
@ Rodan:
Islam has never been compatible with the West. It has always been bent on dominating and conquering us. When I say always, I do mean since its inception. Isl;am was trying to conquer the West in the 600s and 700s. That is more than a thousand years of incompatibility leading up to 9-11. We shouldn’t be thinking accomodation or reaching out or any of that other shit. We should be thinking containment and isolation. Not Isolation for us, but for them. As long as they are Islamic, there isn’t much discourse that we can profitably have with them. Oil for food through a blockade is the only way to deal with the Islamic world.
@ Iron Fist:
Exactly, we shopuld make alliances to encircle them. Encourage the rise of anti-Islamic regimes in Europe and not allow any more in. Make being Muslim socially unacceptable like being a Nazi.
\Macker wrote:
I think I have infected Macker with the CZ-75 fever. Are you going with the 9mm or the .40 S&W?
@ Iron Fist:
Let’s expand our use of nuclear power electricity and natural gas for America’s energy needs and stop buying Arab oil. We can do this now and stop subsidizing the bastards.
“Germany and Japan were alraedy developed nations and had a history of participative governments. To compare Iraq and Afghanistan to them is compating apples and oranges.
Islam is not compatible with our way of thinking.”
~~at one time so was afghanistan and iraq. maybe not the types of governments we particularly cared for, but a unified nation nonetheless. even iran had a semblence of normalcy long ago, thats why i called it “nation-rebuilding”. just a term i use is all.
somalia was once considered unified and operative at one time even, its just the breakdown of these nation states has totally ruined them. the soviet war in afghanistan was the final nail in the coffin for that place. their tribalism bubbled up more to the surface during that conflict, and iraq’s tribalistic crap was subdued by hussein. their ‘cultures’ i’d say are apples and oranges.
Good Morning and Happy Monday from the Land of Coz!
@ The Osprey:
@ Macker:
Are you guys going to the Big Sandy Shoot in October?
@ excommunicator:
Iraq and AFghanistan were never real nations. They were held together by strongmen. Japan and Germany were real nations. The fact is the US should not be building or rebuilding any Islamic nation. They want Sharia law, fuck them. Those 2 nations and its people are not worth the drop of American money or treasure.
Islam is NOT compatilble with our way of thinking. That is reality and if youw ant to delude yourself with Academic WIlsonian theories, go ahead. Those theories are not worth the drop of 5,000 dead Americans and countless wounded.
coz wrote:
Happy
MandyMonday to you too.BuddyG wrote:
It’s doable. We have enough natural gas to fuel our vehicles, build enough nuclear and coal plants for power. Couple that with hybrid technology, a little wind and solar, recycle our plastics and the rest of our industrial oil demands could be met domestically.
@ The Osprey:
Read on another thread you were at the range with your FAL. SWEET!!! I have one but its a metric built on an Imbel reciever. Bought it about 15 years ago and it shoots fine. Ammo can get expensive but if you want to stop someone, its the round of choice. Beats the measley .223…
@ Rodan:
Yep. We don’t have to outlaw them, but we don’t have to treat them like they are respectible, either. We don’t have to approve of them. We sure don’t have to let them
invadeimmigrate. We don’t have to accept them as though the did not believe in a seventh century death cult.“Iraq and AFghanistan were never real nations. They were held together by strongmen. Japana and Germany were real nations. ”
japan was a mess of feudal states for years, hardly unified, until the militarists/emperor began running the whole show. and germany only became unified in the 1800′s, theyre a younger nation than we are. and germany as a nation state was mostly run by the militarists also. so we can make the case for all of them. strongmen binding them together or what have you, they functioned somewhat normally.
other than that, i agree with you in that muslim countries are spoiled places that we now know cant be helped.
gulfloafer wrote:
Where and when in Oct is that? Got linky?
Rancher wrote:
the marcellus shale is sooo huge. this can go a long way if we do it right.
@ excommunicator:
The difference in all of these is:
Islam – totally incompatiable with a western style republic of individual rights.
Islam – totally incompatiable with a western style republic of individual rights.”
—ive alrdy agreed to this twice.
@ MikeA:
There you go hacking on the mousegun. That’s cool, but I’ll tell you why they have become my weapon of choice: ammo. As long as 5.56X45 is American military issue, I’ll be able to get ammo in that caliber. They still have 7.62 for their GPMGs and sniper rifles, but it just isn’t as common. The only way they could lock down the 5.56 supply is change the military over to something else. As much as I’d love to see them go to the 6.8SPC, I just don’t see that happening. They’ll upgrade the M-4s to pistons, rails, and such, but the 5.56 is here for the foreseeable future.
@ The Osprey:
http://www.mgshooters.com/spectator-info.htm
@ excommunicator:
Yup we learned our lessons and I hope this is the nail in the coffin of Wilsonianism.
Of some note:
The “lfg cult” is decomposeing.
Its going to smell to high heaven.
Any one who walks into that is going to get poop on their socks.
@ MikeA:
Yes, that is the only problem. 7.62 NATO has gotten expensive unless you want to shoot the Russian manufactured steel case stuff. I’m a bit leery of steel case in a FAL. I’ve got no problem with steel case ammo in my Tantal and VZ-58 but those rifles were designed for steel case Combloc ammo.
IMBEL is good stuff. Is yours all Brazilian except for the 922R parts? Does it have the “gear logo” on the receiver?
Iraq hasn’t really been unified; the Kurds and Shiites never shared power. Afghanistan has never had a centrally controlled government, except maybe for a short time under Alexander the Great. Couple that with a culture of corruption and it’s hard to get a workable government. I think Iraq is actually doing pretty good all things considered. Time will tell. As for the 5,000 troops we have lost I think given the number of Jihadists they took with them we came out way ahead. Better than any war we ever fought with the exception of Gulf War I. Afghanistan however may be an impossible task.
Should Mandy come on over, put up a welcome Mandy thread, leave it up so we can all welcome her. Those who do not can post on other new threads. No harm no foul.
Welcome mats are nice imho.
BuddyG wrote:
Amen
Grimcargo wrote:
Cases of spam.
@ The Osprey:
It was put together by Hesse Arms which is now gone. Heard good and bad with them but mine works great. I have been getting some deals on German DAG .308 – about $85 / 200rd battle pack.
@ Iron Fist:
Not putting it down. Each has its use. I also have an AR-15. The FAL is my battle rifle for reaching out. The 15 is good for a fighting rifle.
Thats what I love about America. I can have both!
@ Iron Fist:
The piston models seem to be all the rage now. Three of my buddies bought the Ruger SR-556 and a fourth has eye on the Sig 556. The bolt carrier group stays a lot cleaner in the piston model that’s for sure but your adding an additional 3-5 pounds over the traditional ‘gas’ 556. I like my Colt 6920 but after about 300 hundred rounds I have scrape the carbon off with a chisel.
Nevergiveup wrote:
Depends on what you mean by “now”. Next year, no. Ten years, yes. One other necessary element is Fischer-Tropsch oil-from-coal. The carbon lunatics are keeping that from happening. The carbon lunatics (yes this means YOU, Ludwig, you fake Zionist) are keeping the Saudis rich.
gulfloafer wrote:
Ah, that one. I don’t have any full auto hardware, and the entry fee is rather high as a shooter. I’d rather put that $200 towards a good rifle class like Gabe Suarez’s AK class, or save it for fuel and food for the trip to FALFEST at Whittington Center next May. I might go as a spectator.
@ coldwarrior:
The Marcellus Shale is the oldest commercial hydrocarbon play in the US, having supplied gas for town gas lights decades before Drake drill his first oil well in PA.
Nevergiveup wrote:
I concur!
@ The Osprey:
Where is this FALFEST and when? Got a link?
@ snork:
Related.
@ Iron Fist:
Very interesting.
“Unindicted co-conspirators” has a ring to it. CAIR would dearly love to shed that tag.
Heard Irshad Manji (sp.?) on Fox. She clings to being Muslim, but her form of Islam really would be nothing more than prayer and fasting when convenient, jolly Eid feasts, and trips to Mosques very rarely because they are filled with the rather declasse African and veil-wearing types. The Mecca trip would be indefinitely postponed, due to safety concerns. That type of Muslim would be tolerable and tolerant. In fact, downright American. America likes believers.
@ The Osprey:
I have shot some of the Russian steel cased stuff in my FAL. Not bad but not very accurate. The DAG stuff is sweet. Don’t shoot the laquer stuff in a AR-15. It gums up after about 50-60 rounds. Not worth it.
Mike C. wrote:
Who was that at the zoo; Lood I think, who said they had gas street lighting in Damascus in 900?
@ gulfloafer:
The big thing that I noticed when I went to Reaganite’s retirement party was that M-4s heat up quick. We had to stop shooting several times to let the weapons cool down. Part of that is the gas impingement system venting hot gas back into the receiver. A piston system would shut that down. I’ve never fired a full-auto piston system though, and am unlikely to unless the Supreme Court tosses out the NFA (God speed the day
), so that may be a non-issue. Barrel life is supposed to be greater on the piston models (LWRC claims something like four times the barrel life). I’m wanting to make an investment before the election (as I am really worried about what the Lame Duck congress may do to punish America for having the temerity to kick them out). I fluctuate between Noveske (gas impingement) and LWRC (piston). Who knows? Maybe I’ll buy a Double Star and save the money 
(That is so not happening
)
MikeA wrote:
Where are you getting the DAG?
Problem with Hesse as I recall was with their own receivers, not the IMBEL ones.
@ Mike C.:
i did not know that, i thought it was 50 or so years ‘old’ (wells in use)
I guess the gas pipes were made out of Damascus steel…
MikeA wrote:
Yes, well aware of that. I only used the laquered steel case .223 in my SiG 556. That thing is like an AK, it will eat anything you feed it.
Overlook wrote:
Certainly. The problem is, that type of Muslim is the real tiny minority. Anyone that responds to Hamas with “that’s difficult” can go live with Hamas, and see how they like it. We don’t need them here.
Spencer just dropped in @ DoD here.
@ The Osprey:
That’s my plan, go as a spectator.
MikeA wrote:
FALFEST is held the weekend BEFORE memorial day weekend at the NRA Whittington Center in Raton, New Mexico.
Entry fee is usually 75 bucks. Bring food for the potluck Friday night. We normally shoot a 600 yard and 200 yard in sitting and prone, a 100 yard one shot best chance at a target (the “king match”…everyone shoots one round each at the same target, one person at a time, closest to the bull wins), a “poppers and movers” match at 200 yards (your choice of position, most shoot it prone), and a steel plate pistol match.
Go to the FalFiles to learn more and see pics from previous years events. I went in 2009. Missed it this year, plan on being there next year.
@ The Osprey:
You got a Sig 556?
@ coldwarrior:
1820s, IIRC. I’ve drilled and cored the Marcellus myself, back when I worked the Appalachians.
Also IIRC, I think the Chinese have the best claim on first industrial use of gas. Back sometime BC, getting it from wells drilled for brine (the Chinese invented cable tool drilling) and piping it to heat evaporation pans.
@ The Osprey:
Check your e-mail please!
gulfloafer wrote:
Yes, I do.
@ The Osprey:
Nice! Let me know if you ever plan on being in the Vegas area, we’ll hit the range.
Grimcargo wrote:
Add in shots of the flood victims in Tennessee with a split screen of him golfing or on vacation.
Good morning, all (with five minutes to spare before noon). Was just catching up on the over night. Wanted to see what caused the traffic. So Mandy go the stick? Has she made an appearance yet?
BTW – that made for some hilarious reading.
Macker wrote:
Oh! I like that! I’m in!
@ Mike C.:
good info!
gulfloafer wrote:
I was there last spring, at the Showdown In Searchlight Tea Party to protest Harry Reid, but did not go all the way in to Vegas. Spent the night in Laughlin.
I need to hit Vegas again though, must placate my inner Elvis. I’ll let you know when I plan on going, it will likely be fairly spur of the minute. It’s not too bad a drive from PHX. I’ll bring the SiG.
Post # 347 on the over night on lgf .0001 avanti on mandy…
“I do not want this site to be 100% left, we need some rights, to bad about mandy”.
my guess 99.9% loon Obama bull shit love would be the % avanti would be down with.
lgf’s ass kissing cult
The Osprey wrote:
Not a bad drive at all. The new Hoover Dam bypass is supposed to be open in October or November. Driving across the dam sucks now and going through Laughlin tacks on another 30 minutes at least.
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