Contrast the reaction to the Ft. Hood massacre when we were told over and over again that we should not jump to conclusions over the motives of the shooter (despite credible reports of him shouting Allahu Akbar!) with the rush to judgment that somehow places this loser loner as a member of the tea party who gets subliminal messages from Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh? That idiot Sheriff Dupnik who makes Barney Fife seem like Sherlock Holmes (what is a 72 year old man doing as a sheriff anyway?), ought to be forcibly retired. We get another reminder (as if we needed one) as to how vicious and unscrupulous our political opponents are. Fortunately it does not appear that the American public is buying the fatuous theories about “right-wingers” being responsible for the shootings on Saturday.
By the way guess who said this:
“They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
“Get in Their Faces!”
“I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
“Hit Back Twice As Hard”
“We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
“Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
“It’s time to Fight for it.”
“Punish your enemies.”
“I’m itching for a fight.”
Barack Hussein Obama!
by Glenn Harlan Reynolds
Shortly after November’s electoral defeat for the Democrats, pollster Mark Penn appeared on Chris Matthews’s TV show and remarked that what President Obama needed to reconnect with the American people was another Oklahoma City bombing. To judge from the reaction to Saturday’s tragic shootings in Arizona, many on the left (and in the press) agree, and for a while hoped that Jared Lee Loughner’s killing spree might fill the bill.
With only the barest outline of events available, pundits and reporters seemed to agree that the massacre had to be the fault of the tea party movement in general, and of Sarah Palin in particular. Why? Because they had created, in New York Times columnist Paul Krugman’s words, a “climate of hate.”
The critics were a bit short on particulars as to what that meant. Mrs. Palin has used some martial metaphors—”lock and load”—and talked about “targeting” opponents. But as media writer Howard Kurtz noted in The Daily Beast, such metaphors are common in politics. Palin critic Markos Moulitsas, on his Daily Kos blog, had even included Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’s district on a list of congressional districts “bullseyed” for primary challenges. When Democrats use language like this—or even harsher language like Mr. Obama’s famous remark, in Philadelphia during the 2008 campaign, “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun”—it’s just evidence of high spirits, apparently. But if Republicans do it, it somehow creates a climate of hate.
There’s a climate of hate out there, all right, but it doesn’t derive from the innocuous use of political clichés. And former Gov. Palin and the tea party movement are more the targets than the source.
[...]
Set aside as inconvenient, apparently. There was no waiting for the facts on Saturday. Likewise, last May New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and CBS anchor Katie Couric speculated, without any evidence, that the Times Square bomber might be a tea partier upset with the ObamaCare bill.
So as the usual talking heads begin their “have you no decency?” routine aimed at talk radio and Republican politicians, perhaps we should turn the question around. Where is the decency in blood libel?
To paraphrase Justice Cardozo (“proof of negligence in the air, so to speak, will not do”), there is no such thing as responsibility in the air. Those who try to connect Sarah Palin and other political figures with whom they disagree to the shootings in Arizona use attacks on “rhetoric” and a “climate of hate” to obscure their own dishonesty in trying to imply responsibility where none exists. But the dishonesty remains.
[...]
I understand the desperation that Democrats must feel after taking a historic beating in the midterm elections and seeing the popularity of ObamaCare plummet while voters flee the party in droves. But those who purport to care about the health of our political community demonstrate precious little actual concern for America’s political well-being when they seize on any pretext, however flimsy, to call their political opponents accomplices to murder.
Where is the decency in that?
Read the rest: The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel
Tags: Glenn Harlan Reynolds
Sweet and to the point!
I’d say “bullseye” or “right on target” but I don’t want to accused of being a hate-speechy accomplice to murder.
Great post! I spent the better part of last night battling liberal friends on fb, trying to reason with them about this. I notice this morning that they are back peddling away from this meme. Next up, it is the fault of the Second Amendment.
Could this finally cause some people to wake up to the MSM being in the tank for Obama? Could they finally see the ugly face of a left wing media that will print anything as long as it hurts the conservatives but quickly stops talk if it is about a “protected minority”?
Paul Krugman never ceases to create a “climate of stupidity” with his articles.
Politics is War. The Democrats understand this and act the way they do because in war all things are permissable. This time, however, they may have made a serious error IF we will follow up on it. They clearly went with what they wanted to be true, rather than what was true, and in doing so revealed that they would stoop to any depth to push their political agenda. No big surprise to us, ogf course, but they have done so in a way that we can make look very bad to the average voters out there. We need to do so. We need to fight back. There is not time for reflective thought, but rather we must be active in our defense of our side of the political equasion. Professor Reynolds has done a good job of that in this article.
@ MikeA:
I don’t know. There’s always hope that some people will wake up.
OTOH, the media has been playing these games successfully for a very long time.
*sigh*
Flyovercountry wrote:
There is already legislation being brought by a Representative from New York. They will stoop to any level to move their agenda forward.
Rush is saying that someone ran with the first incorrect spelling of loughners name as reported by huffpoo and attempted to create a FAKE facebook page for the guy establishing connections to various right wing folks. i hate liars and i hate evil.
Kirly wrote:
The Left are both. Just be glad we caught them at their falsification. No doubt Chuckles would have ran with it anyway, just as he ran with it when he had the wrong YouTube links. The Left will stop at nothing to achieve their goals.
Gateway Pundit: Call off the media dogs: Loughner fixated on Giffords since 2007, way before Palin
@ Kirly:
This is how low they will go to smear us. it isn’t even shocking at this point.
Rush also said, they were in such a hurry they misspelled Sarah Palin’s name trying to connect her to the killer.
The left is despicable.
Iron Fist wrote:
Absolutely.
We do not have anything like the kind of the power the MSM has to shape a story, but we have to use whatever media resources we do have to fight back…. hard.
I love Reynolds’ use of the phrase “blood libel.” It pulls no punches in namely exactly what the Left is engaged in.
@ MikeA:
Nope. If they haven’t seen it by now, they fall into the category of The Willfully Blind.
@ Iron Fist:
Never let a good crisis go to waste, isn’t that the mantra. This will never pass, but why not give it a shot. The idiot gets to look like a hero to his moronic constituents. This is Rodan’s first real test of Boehner’s resolve. I am sure Rodan joins me in hoping Boehner passes. This tragedy is a tragedy to be sure, but after the facts are in, it appears that Giffords was targeted for being Giffords. Her only crime was to attract the attention of a paranoid schizofrenic, (sp?). The other victims were in the way of this sick individual.
What this is not however, is a reason to change the agenda of doing the business the American People want done, which is to roll back the march to Socialism.
The moronic, lying Liberals need to be destroyed. The right needs to massacre those cretins in the next elections!
Disclaimer – In case any crazy person or your average liberal is reading this, in other words, people with the minds of a five year old, then my comment is not an actual call for violence, and it is not meant to be taken literally. So please don’t go out and shoot a bunch of people if you happen to be a liberal or a crazy person.
And if you do, it is certainly not my fault.
I actually had an idiot tell me today that Mein Kampf and The Communist Manifesto were right wing. I tried to explain why that was bs, they just didn’t get it. They said Mein Kampf was racist and the right was racist so they were the same. I explained the history of the right and race relations in this country and they said, “well that may be true, at least until George Bush”. Asked them to explain that and never got an answer. I swear most of Facebook is just a gathering of idiots.
Sorta related. I’ve worked with people with mental disabilities for many years, and I hate to admit it, but Schizophrenics still frighten me. This is even after having gone through Abnormal Psych classes. They are just so unpredictable, and what they start thinking is so bizarre, it’s just beyond my ability to understand.
@ Flyovercountry:
I don’t think this gun control will go anywhere in the Republican House. I sincerely hope it won’t. That is one of the defining issues that is I>supposed to be the difference between Republicans and Democrats. In addition, Giffords was apparently pro-Second Amendment. I hope she rtecovers in time to vote against this shit.
@ wolfie:
I agree. We owe it to America to try to get the truth out.
The mfm is not a legitimate group focused on getting the truth out. They are a propaganda tool of the left.
And their purpose is to spread lies and hide the facts.
@ Flyovercountry:
It is hard to reason with ideologues.
chickadee wrote:
Tammy Bruce is going to be on O’Reilly tonight. She will rip the MFM apart in their attempts to lay blame.
gibsonz wrote:
People like Krugman are the types who created the Wall Street mess of 2008.
My take on things….When Loughner first met Giffords at a similar function in 2007, she responded by sending him a letter thanking him for coming out. First, it was probably your standard form letter, second, he probably took it really as a personal letter from her to him. He was probably trying to contact her ever since. He probably didn’t understand why she would write him this personal letter, but them become so distant from him. Therefore, it just made him madder and madder and madder. And now this happened.
Just my look into the mind of a schizo.
This is the report that Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik has been dreading since the tragic event on Saturday January 8.
for those of ya’ll who missed it
Michelle Malkin has a huge article on the climate of hate from the
left from 2000 to 2009
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/
The progressive climate of hate: A comprehensive illustrated primer in 8 parts:
I. PALIN HATE
II. BUSH HATE
III. MISC. TEA PARTY/GOP/ANTI-TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE HATE
IV. ANTI-CONSERVATIVE FEMALE HATE
V. LEFT-WING MOB HATE — campus, anti-war radicals, ACORN, eco-extremists, & unions
VI. OPEN-BORDERS HATE
VII. ANTI-MILITARY HATE
VIII. HATE: CRIMES — the ever-growing Unhinged Mugshot Collection
read it all, put into one group, this info is jaw dropping
Mars wrote:
It certainly has it`s share of “democratic voters”!
@ NoThreat2U:
One of his friends said that after Loughner met Giffords in 2007, he said Giffords is ‘stupid and unintelligent’, so I doubt he tried to waste his time contacting her.
@ rain of lead:
Read that this morning. Michelle really goes on tear. lol She mentions it ALL so there can be no question as to which side incites more hatred and violence. A very good piece indeed.
@ eaglesoars:
Yet he remained fixated on her. Maybe he thought if she just needed to see things from his perspective. Crazy people are like that.
Glenn Reynolds (of Instapundit) is another one who woke up to Charles Johnson’s mendacity earlier this year.
I’m tormenting our Daily-Kos-visiting office assistant by listening to Rush.
Iron Fist wrote:
If her support of the 2nd A was based on principles and an understanding of the age-old rights of free men, she won’t change her views. If, OTOH, it was based on political calculation or un-thought-out acquiescence, she could change.
If she’s the type to let her personal, emotional experience overrule her thinking, she could end up converting into a gun-control fanatic.
You never know.
@ MikeA:
I’ve talked to a few people that are the type that only go online to check email and facebook, and get all their news from the paper and tv. A lot of them are saying its “fishy” how quickly everyone is blaming talk radio.
@ Iron Fist:
That’s why we have to get to the political belief of every lunatic like this. The left sure as hell will paint it as right wing, without doing the research and getting the facts we are just letting them attack us. I don’t care if this insanity wasn’t politically motivated, the left will say it was, and if we don’t know everything about the persons set of beliefs, then we’re screwed.
@ eaglesoars:
If this is true, the sheriff will have a lot to answer for.
@ NoThreat2U:
Apparently he was fixated on her. Part of my rationale is that if he did try to contact her WITH THREATS, the Feds would have hauled his ass off.
Of course, that assumes a staffer took such contact seriously.
@ eaglesoars:
My, my.
Sad.
This guy really slipped through the cracks, didn’t he?
@ wolfie:
Born and raised in Tuscon – and owns a Glock 9 mm.
The climate of hate is what liberals have been doing for the past decade, being the hateful creatures that they are.
I disagree that the rhetoric should be toned down, it should be taken to the next level. Because when the media speaks about toning down the rhetoric, that only applies to people who are not liberals. They merely wish to silence people from the right and take away their freedom of speech.
When you go around, like liberals and democrats have been doing, and repeatedly call good people for racists and nazis, then don’t expect any civility back. In short, screw the liberals and democrats, they’re a bunch of hypocrites and scumbags of the worst kind.
Bring it on, nobody is going to submit to morbid liberal demands while they dance and gloat over the deaths of dead people to further advance their sick agenda.
@ wolfie:
Answer me this: After Virginia Tech, WHY ARE THERE ANY CRACKS?
Anyone brought up pelosi marching through the Tea-Party rally with that giant gavel after the passage of the health-care reform (destruction) bill?
That was a hell of a in your face invitation to violence than anything I can think of from the Conservative side of the aisle.
Not only is the Left trying to spin this, but here’s something else – They’ve been caught Photoshopping a screen from the Arizona SecState website, in which they try to make it look like this Laughner was a registered Republican.
Except they misspelled Tucson, and the Pima County Registrar of Votes has already said that Laughner registered as an indie back in 2006.
Mars wrote:
AMEN.
We have to fight back.
That was it. But later in the day, when Tierney first heard about the Tucson massacre, he had a sickening feeling: “They hadn’t released the name, but I said, ‘Holy shit, I think it’s Jared that did it.’” Tierney tells Mother Jones in an exclusive interview that Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a “fake.” Loughner’s animus toward Giffords intensified after he attended one of her campaign events and she did not, in his view, sufficiently answer a question he had posed, Tierney says. He also describes Loughner as being obsessed with “lucid dreaming”—that is, the idea that conscious dreams are an alternative reality that a person can inhabit and control—and says Loughner became “more interested in this world than our reality.” Tierney adds, “I saw his dream journal once. That’s the golden piece of evidence. You want to know what goes on in Jared Loughner’s mind, there’s a dream journal that will tell you everything.”
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/205780.php
eaglesoars wrote:
IMHO, crises like this are a gold-mine for the dimms. They will throw everything against the wall and hope something sticks.
For those bent on politicising this, facts don’t matter. If you could prove that he was everything but a right-winger up until the moment he got into his car, they will still claim he had some sort of conversion listening to talk radio on the way to the mall.
And besides, he had a gun, so he is a right-winger by default.
@ eaglesoars:
This is interesting. And should be widely known, if authenticated. Who wrote the “report”? Where is it and did the writer see it?
citizen_q wrote:
I.E. it is by design.
This mouth-watering rush by the Left to make political hay over a mentally deranged, leftist pot-smoking nut who murdered several and probably made a permanently brain-damaged victim of this Congress woman is starting to backfire and is going to grow to something unforeseen by these filthy evil liars. Because now there are a multitude of columns, and there will be more, cataloging the excesses of hate, libel and deranged political rhetoric from the Left.
There will be a full accounting of Leftist political intimidation, from Black Panthers blocking a polling place with clubs, to Union thugs attacking Tea Party members in full sight and on video. To Dem Congress creatures proclaiming they were spit on by Tea Party members, yet NO evidence what-so-ever. To the Left making a movie about Bush being assassinated. To the comments of their “Dear Leader” talking about bringing a gun when we bring a knife. To the Dem party standing and cheering the Mexican President who regaled our congress of bigotry and racism because we actually want to be a nation with a border, with a far more merciful immigration policy than the failed narco-stated of Mexico with its utterly racist treatment of illegals and native Indians.
One of the great mechanisms (if not the greatest) of the Left staying in power has been the Media embargo by the Left. The down the memory-hole-nature of current reporting. The constant same tactics of acting out your hatred and the attempt to impose tyranny upon your opponents, then as professional sorcerer’s and witches transfer what YOU are doing upon your opponents.
That day is OVER…this event is going to be the signal event it is over. I think no mistake that the little girl murdered at this event was born on 9/11. Almost a prophetic calling, that the blood of the truly innocent was taken, to expose something that is destroying the entire nation. This principle is always employed by God only, in that freedom and the destruction of lies is always done by the shedding of innocent blood.
That spirit returns to God, but the shedding of that blood becomes the occasion of Divine Judgement. We cannot overcome this by human effort alone, because our enemy is not based from the human realm, it moves and acts through humans, but its author is demonic, Satanic in origin. Can you say the German people were entirely responsible for the horrors of fascism? No they were the channels that had to first be deceived, then seduced by a Satanically possessed man.
This principle keeps repeating but each time more of humanity is involved, more is at stake. Now the very future and freedom of the human race is at stake. Because I believe, as many here do, that if America is snuffed out…then it will be only a few decades and the whole earth will be under nearly irreversible tyranny and darkness.
@ Beeduwine:
Gifford owns a gun too. He11 she might own several guns for all we know.
@ eaglesoars:
Oh krap. He thought he had a “get out of jail free”-card in Pailin/TheTeaParty/GOP, eh?
Almost worked too.
Just wait until the next Muslim terrorist maniac blows something up someplace. Then the same old media and the leading Dem politicians will be out urging everybody not to jump to any conclusions.
And if there is any speculation about possible motives, then somebody who is against the healthcare bill will be at the top of these people’s lists. And these morons are the ones in charge of protecting this country.
eaglesoars wrote:
Good question.
Poor Gifford. What a tragedy.
Any reports on her status?
lmao,Joe Courtney,my so called cong critter rep,isn’t going to change his mo when meeting the public. No sheet,you hide from us whenever anything controversial is afoot.
@ Beeduwine:
Holding her own,no further swelling of the brain.
citizen_q wrote:
And when nothing happened, they made up lies abt. people cursing and spitting on them which the videos showed to be completely bogus.
Beeduwine wrote:
Her husband is still a moron though. To be going out there to the press, lying and assigning blame to innocents is despicable.
@ vagabond trader:
Is there a chance she will recover fully?
George Will eviscerates the left.
O/T:
Arctic blast coats South in treacherous snow, ice
@ Mad Mullah:
The father blames the tea party as well. Gah.
Great post Speranza. This sheriff is useless. When he should have been instilling confidence in the legal system, he starts talking about his home turf being a hot bed of bigotry and racism. WTF? When he should have been giving facts about the shooter in custody or the chain of events in the shooting, he starts an emotional rant about “vitriolic” political speech and the need to modify our speech. Not for nothing, the last person I want telling me what is accepable political speech is a law enforcement officer. The voters of Tuscon elected an embarassment and that is their problem. Once he comandeered the national stage during the presser he became all our problem. He should be officially reprimanded or have a gag order placed on him. Or something.
@ rain of lead:
The “climate” of hatred put out by the left has actually become part of the curriculum: it is leftist dogma that the right hates and that it is not merely OK to hate haters, it is your duty. Be an activist! Go on marches! Get into their faces!
Being conservative is now a status crime, proved by one of the following: being registered as a Republican, owning a gun, claiming to read Mein Kampf ( but not claiming to read the Communist Manifesto). Mental derangement while owning a gun does not exculpate the conservative, as mental derangement itself is prima facie evidence of being conservative.
vagabond trader wrote:
I can understand that they’re obviously upset, because of what happened, that’s pretty obvious. That doesn’t excuse their despicable and disgusting behavior though.
Tragedies happen to all sorts of people, and most people handle it far better than they do, without resorting to cowardly lies, accusations and liberal nonsense.
@ Beeduwine:
If she comes out of this initial phase,it’ll depend on a long hard road of therapy. She’ll have residual problems,no way to know how much. On her side,rapid trauma intervention and being relatively young healthy and motivated.
gotta go, it’s been fun – as always!
HotAir is tracking whose making the most outrageous comment about this:
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/01/10/clyburn-reading-the-constitution-provoked-murder-spree-in-tucson-or-something/
So far, #1 spot is held by Rep. James Clyburn of North Carolina who HotAir summarizes from Clyburn’s appearance today on Fat Ed’s radio show:
#2 spot is held by former Nebraska Senator Bob Kerrey, from Imus:
Asshattery on parade!
Mad Mullah wrote:
I have not seen that, but if that is correct, please remember he is in a state of shock and despair and anger – I would not hold anything he says at this moment against him.
@ Jehu:
Good comment — broad perspective.
(I hope you are right that this will be a turning power in the Left’s control of the public narrative. I don’t see it as happening anytime soon, myself, but …..)
@ Jehu:
It should be noted that the poor little girl’s mother went on the press last night and blamed talk radio. Apparently dems don’t actually care about their children the way normal people do. At least when political points can be scored.
@ Overlook:
Oh, WELL SAID!
ok, gone………….
@ Mad Mullah:
It is evil that caused this,not decent Americans who cherish freedom.
vagabond trader wrote:
Thanks.
vagabond trader wrote:
The Tea Party influence was just too strong for a father to resist. The siren call of lower taxes lured his poor son into the way of violence.
@ Mars:
Her father is a conservative and urged people to not assign blame.
Mars wrote:
My #67 applies here too. And the mother is very vulnerable right now and easy to take advantage of.
@ chickadee:
They want violence. If they can’t provoke it they make it up, or twist an event such as this into a weapon to further their objectives or damage and silence their opponents.
You this, I know this, we make more of an effort, I fear for the people who rely on network news, the washington post, of ny times for their news and commentary.
@ Overlook:
No,Giffords father blamed the TP,don’t know about nutbags sire.
If the bullet hit part of the brain, then she will be brain-damaged. Depends on the path of the bullet, if it hugged the skull then it might be minimal. But I heard it was temple to temple. If a direct line she will loose higher functions, reasoning, abstract thought, probably great memory damage, both long and short term. I know I take care of the Traumatically Brian Injured.
Seems like she was a decent person from most accounts, but since she was of the liberal persuasion, she will be made out to be a Holy Saint, and some sort of martyr on whatever political altar the Leftist Vultures eventually settle upon to feast.
Think of how the media would be acting if this was Sarah Palin. Do you have any doubt they would say all the right words but could not hide the gleam of delight in their eyes? And Palin would not be made out to be a Saint..it would come though that the great God of Caribou and Moose had taken revenge upon this Alaskan hunter, when all good liberals know you get your meat from Safeway…meat that was humanely slaughtered by the millions in Midwest slaughter houses, by illegals doing the work the effete Harvard crowd would never do.
@ Mars:
Don’t know about the mom, but I cut a grieving mother some slack. I’ll bet she is just parroting back the talking points fed to her by her news channel of choice. I wonder though if she was coached before providing her statement.
@ Beeduwine:
Sadly,the 2 wars have created great advances in traumatic brain injury treatments. Ironic that good does come out of war.
Beeduwine wrote:
I am a brain surgery survivor myself, as many of you already know.
As they say, once the air hits your brain, you’re never the same.
I became functional again, but there are some residual effects that won’t go away, in terms of motor coordination, brain stem functions (e.g., sleep/wake cycle and body temperature regulation), muscle cramping, visual perception, and so forth.
After a certain number of years, you can learn to compensate for some of the deficits.
@ Mars:
If one of my kids had been shot, I might blame the Easter Bunny, if someone put it into my head.
I’ll give immediate family members a pass on this and save my anger for the contemptible propagandists who use them as props.
@ citizen_q:
I think those people are pretty much useless. My mother is a prime example. She’s a republican, but hates talk radio, and gets all her news from tv. Whenever I speak up about what the news is lying about she gets upset and tells me that she can’t stand people who talk during the news. She says I’m overreacting by getting upset with the media for lying outright.
Certain people are just content to keep the blinders on and hate anything that disrupts that.
Jehu wrote:
The narrative would be that the “bitch” got what was coming to her. Some higher ranking democrats would obviously condemn it and say how terrible it is, but there would be mass celebrations and jokes from liberals all across the internet.
@ Mars:
We’ll still take her vote.
@ vagabond trader:
I stand corrected.
@ citizen_q:
Then there needs to be protection in place. We can’t have people making irresponsible statements on the tv like that. Even if she’s being coached, someone is allowing it to happen. I no longer forgive. This is the same political philosophy that allows children to be sacrificed to abortion and political expediency. I can no longer grasp the thought process.
@ wolfie:
Too true.I predict she will be held up as a martyr for he11care,which fortunate for her,nothing but the best.
@ vagabond trader:
True, but they can’t be trusted to be reliable. They’re too easily swayed by someone offering a third way, outside of party. She actually believed the no-labels clowns were what they claimed to be.
Gifford is a (D), but I don’t think that I’d describe her as a liberal, because she was very moderate and even had Republican stances on certain issues that were very unpopular with the liberal freaks.
@ Mars:
My wife is similar in attitude. I find that I have to patient, wait for her to get engaged in an issue on her own. Then I can pose countervailing information and some small baby steps.
Even my liberal brother is coming around, and I did not have to do a thing. I even heard him refer to obama as a commie.
I think reality is becoming a bit to hard to hide and hide from. Use to be I simply did not talk politics of any kind with him.
@ Mars:
I know,my brother, who is probably near your Moms age,is being weaned off his veneration of the mfm.He is reliably conservative but needed a little nudge to correct his error.I did manage to prove to him the anti semitic bent of the NYT,a major achievement.
@ vagabond trader:
I find it amazing that my grandmother (on my fathers side) who doesn’t even have access to internet is far more politically aware than my mother. She won’t even listen to tv news other than for local and the weather. All her news comes from talk radio now.
@ Mars:
Its a kind of pronography.
A cheap and ugly stunt. Leave the grieving families alone. We all know she is hurting and understand. I doubt if they ever have anything objective value to add. Its like rubbernecking at a bad car accident.
@ Mars:
Smart lady!
@ citizen_q:
Made me cringe too.
@ wolfie:
I totally agree. The families are devastated want someone/something tangible to blame. Mental illness on the part of the shooter will not give them a comfortable object to project their anger onto. It is impossible to accept these killings as the manifestation of illness this soon. That’s the way it is. They will blame the tea party, gun laws, talk radio, when all else fails the state of mental health care in America and the politicians who do not vote to change it. I don’t like it, but everyone does the same thing. I give all the families a pass. I despise the media outlets who use them to further a political agenda.
@ Mars:
The fools in the mfm forget Lincoln. You can’t fool all the people all the time. Its why their ratings are so low. Its also why the best they can do is alyinsky opposing voices.
vagabond trader wrote:
Nothing but bad comes out of war. I remind my slaves of that every day…
what the f is wrong with Iowa? are they just f ing stupid
http://www.gop12.com/2011/01/2012-iowa-huckabee-leads.html
. Mike Huckabee 24%
2. Mitt Romney 19%
3. Sarah Palin 11%
4. Newt Gingrich 8%
5. Tim Pawlenty 4%
6. Ron Paul 3%
7. Michele Bachmann 2%
8. Mike Pence and Haley Barbour 1%
Huckabee……..? really?
Interesting history of Sheriff
FifeDupnik.@ Mad Mullah:
She voted against Nancy Pelosi as minority leader. That is why Kos had her targeted in his eeeeevil Chart of Assassinations™ (hey, why not join in the smearing? Kos had her targeted, and a nutjob targeted her! Come on, people, read between the lines…)
@ snowcrash:
I really can’t see that. Psychologically the simplest thing to do is blame the (living) shooter. Also blaming psychological problems is actually quite common in todays society. A person in the grieving stage will attempt to project onto the most concrete thing. In this case that would be the shooter. It takes far more effort to project onto tangential and non-related things. This can’t be done without extreme manipulation by people around the grieving.
@ rain of lead:
Right Now, it’s just name recognition. Huckster’s on Fox with a regular show. Remember, Dean was on top the night before the first primary. Guiliani was on top prior to the first primary. Plus, the Huckster is who the left wants to run against. I would expect him to be the early, “front runner,” right up until votes are cast. I know of no one personally who supports this buffoon.
Iron Fist wrote:
Iron Fist, I have begun some secret operations on bringing about anarchy and chaos, in order to then seize imperial power– when people start longing for a strong hand to restore order. Does the position of Imperial Minister of War interest you?
snowcrash wrote:
Thanks. Not only is he useless, he is an utter disgrace!
We must begin to assess what is happening via physical circumstance on the earth from a much higher overview. If we do not we will suffer despair and loss of hope that makes human existence nearly unbearable. Either you begin to assess what is happening with a spiritual or revelatory eye, or you will be consumed with the tides of hate and deception now turned loose on the earth.
I can give you the instance where everything changed on the earth, yet in some ways certain things because of human nature did not change, and maybe appeared worse. In short the scaffolding that allows human nature full expression is changed by acts of God, to ultimately lead to each human being isolated in a manner in which they must face their own nature, not propped up by Empire or King, by State, or Nation.
To this end God is working, and has been working through all human history. Think of the world before Christ. A world of great centuries-long empires, won by conquest, by great men. After Christ that world (what we now call the ancient world) came to an end. With the injection of Christ (God in human form) into human history, there would never again be a great empire like Greece or Rome or Babylon. Others came along like Genghis Khan, but they were merely military conquests, they did not establish Empire as the days of old. And you have the known Roman world overtaken by the teachings of Christ in about 200 years.
It took about 1,500 years to completely end the Empire stage of man, on to the Nation-State. But that is still a shelter a scaffolding for man to hide his evil intents, his evil nature, to God, but mostly to himself. What bugs us all about liberals? It is their hiding behind the actions of government their own evil natures.
To make government as God, and them as the servants, which does nothing to deal with their sin or nature of sin. So that must also be stripped away, is being stripped away. Each man must ultimately stand naked before God, without deeds to boast, but only with a display of his actual nature. To this end conservatives are aware…they do not proclaim for themselves a righteousness derived over what they can get a power greater than themselves to do…i.e., the actions of a coercive government to create a world where they can hide their own true nature.
That is coming to an end. God will leave man no construct, no fig leaf to hide behind. He will either get his righteousness from God, or will stand in nakedness and shame. And that is a one on one relationship, nobody, but nobody can get that for you, no person, no government, no Empire, no King. This is what liberals fear, the encounter with God, the exposure of their own sin. An honest man does not fear exposure, but welcomes it, if only he can then be free of that lie, of that bondage.
@ citizen_q:
Yes, indeed.
@ Flyovercountry:
I certainly don’t. Their top two are my bottom two. The two that I will really have to hold my nose to vote for if they get it. At least Huckabee is right on the Second Amendment. I don’t think Romney is. He’s a Big Government RINO, so naturally he is the Establishment favorite…
@ Flyovercountry:
I hope thats all it is
I hate to see the huckafool actualy get votes
@ PrincessNatasha:
Indeed it does! Minister of War was what I was born to do
@ rain of lead:
Ethanol subsidies?
Ethanol consumption?
@ Mars:
I think most people will focus on the “why” when it is a 22 year old killer.
@ Flyovercountry:
My problem is: right now I can’t see anyone I really want to vote for. I will vote against Obama, but I’d like to see some real charismatic conservatives at the top. Nothing against Palin, but she’s been attacked for far too long unfairly and is kind of a joke amongst those ignorant middle of the roaders. It’s unfair, I know, but there’s got to be someone that appeals to all conservatives and is a fresh face. I’d like to see Palin get a high position, but I think if she were nominated Obama would win. Pence, Barbour, and Pawlenty I actually don’t know too much about. Bachmann I personally like, but the press has smeared her pretty badly through the last couple years.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/10/national/main7230550.shtml
snowcrash wrote:
I don’t really find it that surprising at all. Just go visit various internet forums and you’ll find all sorts of people who believe in deranged conspiracy theories and this guy was a troofer. There’s millions of others just like him out there, though only a handful are violent murderers, hopefully. Worldwide, there’s probably over a billion that could be considered troofers.
@ snowcrash:
True to a degree. But, insanity is an answer. Not wholly satisfying but less ethereal than trying to pin it on political rhetoric. I just don’t see that happening without someone whispering in their ear.
@ waldensianspirit:
What is “Shut up, Pussy”?, Alex?
The bullet wound was NOT temple to temple. It entered right behind or near the temple and transited forward in the SAME hemisphere exiting her forehead above her eye. It did not tumble and cause excessive tissue damage other than of course the track of the bullet. It also stayed in the frontal lobe. She does have a chance for a relative decent recovery.
wolfie wrote:
well…thats bad buisness, drinkin yer product
Much as I hate to keep having to point this out, we live in a fallen world and there is no way to eliminate senseless violence or any other form of evil from it. There have been crazy people and violent people and evil people ever since there have been people.
The same is true of perverts, although one particular ideology tends to encourage sexual aggression more than others do:
Bathhouse bad boy
@ waldensianspirit:
saw that, they should have broken his arm
or better yet, ripped it out of it’s socket and beaten him to death
with the wet end
@ waldensianspirit:
Love it,74 years old. So much for death panels.
@ Nevergiveup:
Yes, if that was the path, she may re-gain almost all function. And they stopped the swelling right away, that is the primary damage done to the brain, not the original trauma.
@ Mars:
The answer for the Democrats, then, seems to be to smear any strong conservative candidates as viciously as you can, especiaslly if they are strong women. The truth of your smears don’t matter: just get them out there and it will be enough to destroy their political careers. That is pretty sad, if true.
Anyone can be shot because of their speech.
Having said that one realizes that in this country, shooting someone especially because of thir speech is a crime pure and simple.
There is no legitamacy whatsoever limiting speech in order to avoid inflaming passions.
Passion is totally different from violence. Only the mentally deranged cannot tell the difference.
And in this way folks who want to suppress political rhetoric because of this incidence are facilitating the shooter — not the victim!
vagabond trader wrote:
He is correct about the fact that illegal immigrants do contribute disproportionately to the police blotter, I’ll give him that much.
That said, the dude is a dufus and is clearly incapable of doing his job.
1389AD wrote:
That’s true. Some people are just defective, nature is not perfect.
Something not said yet, as far as I have heard. But this was Arizona with no permit needed for concealed carry. If this had been a conservative event, I wonder if the shooter may have been shot himself? Instead he empties a extended mag before his is stopped. Hard to figure, but an alert armed person may have stopped some of the slaughter. The best gun control is for more SANE people to carry guns at all times.
@ Mars:
I like Duncan Hunter, he ran in 08. Pawlenty and Jindal both are great executives. Jindal is the gov. of Louisiana who defied President Obama during the Gulf Oil Spill by lining his entire coast line with sand bags there by preventing landfall of much of the oil. That right there makes him my favorite. The mere fact that he actually did something rather than waiting for the Federal Gobment to step in and save him. There may even be a relatively unknown candidate out there who is quietly building an organization and raising cash. I could live with Guiliani, whom the press destroyed last time around.
One other fine point, let’s remember that the current President is Barak Obama, the single most incompetent man in any room he enters, before we become discouraged with the, “lack of talent,” in the GOP field.
@ 1389AD:
Maybe the judge could display cultural sensitivity and restore the family honor by issuing a punishment similar to one he would receive at home. An eye for an eye perhaps.
rain of lead wrote:
So is burning your FOOD!
unclassifiable wrote:
It’s the same people who think that we shouldn’t draw cartoons, because a few nutjobs might get mad and kill somebody. Some people are just born cowards, and liberal ideology seems to attract a lot of those kind of people.
vagabond trader wrote:
The least they could have done was to deport him AND his family.
@ 1389AD:
Yeah,the mental illness thing too,but these opinions are from decades ago. Must’ve become a moonbat on his way to old age.
@ Iron Fist:
Judging by the info I get from the mindless middle, that is unfortunately true. I would love to see any true conservative in the Presidency. I just don’t know what it would take to beat this communist bastard, even with his low ratings. The mindless middle is easily swayed by smear campaigns, but only the ones carried out in the newspapers and nightly news. They still believe that if they hear it on the news its true.
How do we compete with that? And god help us if Billy Jeff enters the ring during the primary. (I don’t personally believe that’s even a slim chance of happening, but I know a lot of Independents that are salivating at the idea. They say Billy represents the middle way.)
Mad Mullah wrote:
That’s called the “heckler’s veto” – we all have to walk on eggs just because some a**hole will (or might conceivably) become violent.
/spit
@ 1389AD:
They probably claimed asylum for fear of their lives at home. Nice job UK.
Jehu wrote:
One of the people credited with stopping the shooter was carrying. I saw him interviewed on FOX this morning. He made a good accounting of himself from what I saw of the interview. He heard the shots, and ran towards it to see if he could help. He did not shoot or draw his weapon because at the time he became engaged it was not necessary, the shooter was already being wrestled with, and he would not have had a clear shot. He joined the others in hand to hand. IMHO he’s a hero, and real foil against those who deride mere citizens being armed.
@ Jehu:
Amen. What was happening at the time of his fist coming will be the state of things at the time of his second.
@ Flyovercountry:
That’s why I get upset when people deride Christie and West on their lack of experience. Both would be outstanding candidates with far more real world experience than the clown in office now. I’d be happy to see either of these men on a ticket. Some combination of West/Christie/Jindal/Bachmann/Palin/Hunter would make me happy. After reading a bit Pawlenty and Pence would be good too.
I guess there is a nice solid conservative group out there, we just have to get them above the “business as usual” crowd.
Jehu wrote:
Yes. Sub specie aeternitatis, as the medievals would say, from the viewpoint of the eternal.
Nothing wrong with examining and discussing the stuff on the ground, but if you don’t look up often enough, you’re going to run into a wall…. or off a cliff.
senator Blumentahl,Liar CT,says he will not be altering access to him by the public.I would expect no less from someone who served with honor in Viet Nam.//
@ citizen_q:
Nice. So far all of these shootings lately just confirm the need for concealed carry. Amazing the press always represents them ass backwards.
vagabond trader wrote:
I presume he is not particularly accesable, so no need to change?
Mars wrote:
ONE reason the Arabs turned to bombings and homecide bombings in Israel was because every time one of their terrorist pulled out a gun in a public place, 20 Israelis pulled out their guns and make swiss cheese of him
@ Jehu:
An alert armed person DID stop some of the slaughter. He heard the firing as he was coming out of Walgreen’s, ran toward it and was in the process of drawing his weapon as he rounded the corner. As he caught sight of the shooter, he had alread popped a magazine and others were already on him. So he just piled on.
Can’t remember his name – young guy in his 20′s.
@ Nevergiveup:
Same reason the Japanese said they wouldn’t attack the US in WW2.
@ Nevergiveup:
Got that right,same with Joe Courtney,CT 2.
vagabond trader wrote:
@ Nevergiveup:
@ Mars:
Just look at the Aussie jihad thread. The Oz have been disarmed and the muzz now own the streets.
We need to find out who the hell this bastard is:
It seems that the killer was neither left nor right but just plain crazy. In most states, the mentally ill can’t be confined until they pose a danger to themselves or others. Also, if he’s found to be insane, he will never go to jail.
@ vagabond trader:
A person who considers themselves free, but lacks the arms and will to defend that freedom, is not free. They are merely fortunate.
@ eaglesoars:
I just remember his first name, Joe from the Fox interview I saw this morning.
@ Mars:
Glenn Reynolds and some others are ‘deftly pinning it’ on Mark Penn.
@ mtc:
Not true. IN Arizona they have the verdict “Guilty but Insane”. If he is convicted in that manner, and then ever judged “sane”, he goes to prison. Dude isn’t going to walk. The question is will he get the death penalty like he deserves.
mtc wrote:
Ah that’s not really true, especially in AZ. Under AZ law if you are found bat shit crazy, you are first sent to get better in the looloo bin and after they have “cured” you, you then go back to Jail to serve out your time. Now the Feds are also involved in this, so it gets confusing, but bottom line: This guy ain’t never walking th streets again.
@ mtc:
Unfortunately there was evidence he was a potential danger. Called in many threats, was so disturbed teachers were apparently afraid to turn their back on him. He needed to be under long-term eval with med controls.
@ eaglesoars:
If the press did there job, this would be a major story.
@ Iron Fist:
Hey we’re both at 16:18 how come you got posted first? I want an investigation
@ Mars:
Damn.
There.I meant their, of course.@ Iron Fist:
Very true. Most people misunderstand the different insanity verdicts. Most mean lifetime confinement.
@ Nevergiveup:
I have connections. Did ya see it up-thread? When Princess Natasha takes over, I get my own War Department. I can have all kinds of fun with that
@ Mars:
Be careful here, my girlfriend is a psyce nurse, and I gather that none of the keeping the nuts off of the streets thing is that simple. The old standard of danger to self or others only applies to the extent that lawyers allow it to do so. Crazy people have rights as well. If he were committed, he gets 3 days to get back on his meds, at which time a doc. would say, now that he is on his meds., he is lucid and no immediate threat. That may be true at the time, but no thought is given for keeping him on meds. Once on the street, he could sell the meds. and be as crazy as Foster by day number 4. The Fife of the country would never know until CNN got to town.
Mars wrote:
Because most have bats in the belfrey and can’t be cured no matter what some liberal may say
mtc wrote:
That’s pretty much what it looks like.
As you say, this guy could even be legally insane and thus skip jail.
Iron Fist wrote:
Do I get NAVSEC?
@ Mars:
pfffft. Did the press do their job when that Journolist guy suggested that they just pick a conservative like Karl Rove and call him ‘racist’?
Flyovercountry wrote:
It’s an extremely complicated problem, IMO, with no good solution.
So they assigned the same lawyer from the Oklahoma Bombing case ha. So how did that work out for the defendent?
@ Nevergiveup:
Sure. You have to have a good Navy if you are going to be a world power.
@ Flyovercountry:
And you can thank Rosalyn Carter for that. She was instrumental in getting these people out of institutions. Granted, a lot of them were poorly run, but the right approach would have been to improve them.
However, the high profile nut cases (see: John Hinckley) will never get out.
Nevergiveup wrote:
She also defended Ted Kazynski, aka Unabomber.
eaglesoars wrote:
She has some client list!
@ Flyovercountry:
Partially true, but what most don’t know is that if you are called in as a danger to yourself or others and the staff Psychiatrists at the hospital continue to consider you that way, you can be kept indefinitely. Had it happen to a family member, they kept him for two weeks until he was able to convince them he wasn’t actually suicidal. I also know of a couple of my prior students that have been held by the hospital for almost two years now.
No court, no lawyers, no due process. Falls under the area of Medical determination and continuing treatment.
@ eaglesoars:
Exactly my point.
@ mtc:
His reading list suggests lefty, people from his High School says he was a liberal-lefty. My guess is he is a liberal-lefty, but not in the sense of a moderate Dem, but in the sense of the loons who think 911 was a conspiracy. Unlike liberals who blame CRAZY on conservatism, I don’t blame CRAZY on liberalism, although I could make a pretty good case liberalism is the political instance of a parasite destroying its host.
Easy way to keep weapons out of the hands of crazies. Hang a picture of Sarah Pallin above every register at the gun counter. Before completing the 4473, point Palin’s picture and ask them to describe what they see.
The ones that start spitting, stuttering, stammering, and twitching like Dreyfuss from the Pink Panther – Airsoft ONLY!
Now THIS is seditious hate speech (UK version, but Muslim preachers in the US are no different.
British salafi Abu Mounisa -- The Islamic Awakening Conference
Nevergiveup wrote:
Liberals want to believe nuts can be cured?
Wouldn’t that make them Conservatives?
Nevergiveup wrote:
Would that make POTUS stand for Princess of the United States?
Come on! Next time tell me im on the down thread!
@Speranza
Good post. I was thinking about this issue on the way to work and couldn’t help remember the last 10 years of violent rhetoric issuing from the MSM and hate toward those against the democrat party platform over the years. Reeping the fruits of what they have sown came to mind.
The progressives are desperately seeking their Horst Wessel to rally the people against their enemies.
The trouble for the MSM and the liberals is that unlike Oklahoma City, the internet and alternative media is now available to debunk their blood libels. I have said this on other threads – show me connection to anything GOP, conservative, TEA Party, etc. We have seen, at this time, not one but TWO fraudulent attempts to link this monster with the right — a phoney Facebook page and an equally phoney voter registration (and those were done by real morons – the Facebook page had the name spelt wrong and the latter spelled Tucson incorrectly an then tried to “re-establish” it back on the web by spelling it correctly.” The right has not resorted to any such deception in attempting to blame the left.
Then we have an imbecile of a Sheriff who, without a scintilla of evidence, goes on television and continually blames the right, until someone in his own office has had enough and leaks to the press that this jerk had knowledge of the threats that Loughlin made and which were, in effect, ignored by Sheriff Douchbag. Sheriff Douchbag has since lawyered up.
And let’s not forget Obama’s use of these victims as a prop for a “moment of silence” today – something which he apparently didn’t deem the Ft. Hood victims worthy of.
@ Carolina Girl:
The Liberals are praying for an atrocity to be committed by a right-winger.
Buckeye Abroad wrote:
All the films about Bush being assassinated – yeah you did not hear much condemnation of that.