Blogmocracy in Action!
Guest post by: KristaPeterson!
Veteran Health, Safety and Support:
A Forgotten American Debt
As this administration decides to wind down America’s involvement in the Middle East and begins bringing troops home, we must confront the true costs of war. However, monetary debts incurred through keeping us safe, the uncertain stability of the Middle East and the solidification of our continued unpopularity throughout the world are not the most difficult effects we must come to grips with. Instead, America must face the challenge of supporting our troops as they supported us. Unfortunately, the strong current of anti-military sentiment in America, extending even into politics, coupled with an unwillingness to devote the appropriate amount of funding, threatens to ensure our soldiers never receive the support, recognition or respect owed to them after taking on the burden of protecting a nation.
Sadly, these recent challenges present only the latest instance where the American government has failed its soldiers. Until the 1970s, the American government used asbestos in hundreds of capacities, exposing countless soldiers to the risks of this material. Asbestos, a naturally heat and chemical resistant mineral valued for its insulating properties, saw heavy use in many military capacities, including housing, vehicles and even basic equipment. From the 1940s through the 1970s, military members risked continued exposure to this material, with statistics indicating that 30% of those diagnosed with mesothelioma served at one point in the U.S. military.
What makes this situation for soldiers so devastating is that mesothelioma symptoms generally fail to appear for 20 to 50 years. Unfortunately, with such long delays in exposure, symptoms are rarely connected with this material, meaning patients typically fail to receive quick treatment for this condition. Because identifying the disease in its earliest stages, while treatment options are most numerous and effective, is vital, this delay in recognition helps explain why such a poor prognosis accompanies this cancer. This delay also hurts veterans because the government offers no additional support for medical costs unless they can conclusively prove their exposure occurred during their military service. However, because of its frequent use in numerous industries, especially construction and manufacturing, proving one’s military exposure is confined to that period becomes incredibly difficult, representing another instance where the government fails to account for blatant disregard for their soldiers.
The U.S. military has come under fire regarding its issuance of insufficient protective equipment to soldiers. In response to military members purchasing alternative body armor for use in Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. government banned the practice, claiming the body armor provided no additional protection. Instead, Army officials claimed that this privately-made equipment might not meet the standards of official military gear, claiming purchases were a waste of money and put soldiers in increased danger, despite the fact that this privately-purchased armor had not yet been tested by the military at the time of the ban. More likely, the government, fearing the public backlash over knowingly failing to provide the best protection to soldiers because of cost considerations, chose instead to outlaw any unofficial gear in an attempt to avoid any direct comparisons. This unfounded blanket repeal of privately purchasing equipment again highlights the political motivations of a nation without the best interest of their troops in mind.
While true that soldiers do knowingly submit themselves to the risks associated with military action upon joining, those threats should not come from the very government they have sworn to protect. If there is one thing a soldier should be able to rely upon when joining the United States military, it’s the full support of the government they are risking their lives on behalf of. However, our government’s continued refusal to support troops, generally prompted by selfish monetary concerns, stands as a continued black mark against a nation that used to have a proud history of supporting its citizens. Even recently-returning veterans, eager to build a life through education, hit major stumbling blocks when trying to claim GI Bill funding owed to them.
While we cannot definitively measure the toll our liberal government’s vocally unsupportive rhetoric took on soldiers in recent conflicts, the insufficient funding and deficiency of support given to soldiers clearly has led to undue suffering for millions of soldiers and their families. Starting with physical issues regarding asbestos, including disturbing mesothelioma life expectancy facts, and continuing with improper safety equipment, veterans continue to face numerous challenges in an increasingly unsupportive culture. However, as our soldiers prepare to come home from their service, media coverage of their struggles remains largely absent. Perhaps the result of mainstream media’s liberal inclination, these facts continue receiving less recognition in an administration bent on cutting military spending and the benefits owed to veterans. Whether the blame resides with this presidency’s continued hostility towards the military or the droves of impressionable young voters duped by these socialistic ideals, the continued mistreatment of veterans will undoubtedly continue unless more Americans speak up on the behalf of these service members who are the continued target of neglect and scorn.
~Krista Peterson
Tags: Krista Peterson, mesothelioma
the uncertain stability of the Middle East and the solidification of our continued unpopularity throughout the world are not the most difficult effects we must come to grips with.
I thought that it was that the world only hated Bush and that Obama was going to get everyone to love America. What gives?
This is good. Who is Krista Peterson? Has she got a Nic I’d recognize?
I think the saddest thing is to see these young soldiers with arms and legs missing.
Iron Fist wrote:
I believe she is a friend of Urban Infidel’s. Great post.
I think that Steve McQueen died of mesothelioma which he got during his stint in the U.S. Navy.
@ Speranza:
Yeah, I don’t think I could handle that myself. I had an arm torn up in a car wreck, and that was traumatic enough. Losing the limb would be awful. Unfortunately, that is what a lot of mines and IEDs are designed to do.
Its all OK not to worry.
The Democrats will put former Lt. John F. Kerry in as committe chairman when they are in power and he will reach across to his buddy John McCain and when the Republicans are in power John McCain gets the chariman seat and he reaches across to Lt. Kerry.
Two Party Evil Money Cult.
http://www.blowoutcongress.com
With Out Borders and Control of those Borders you do not have a country in need of a Constitution..
Act Up.
Vote
@ Speranza:
My Dad got his mesothelioma being in the Navy also. Boilertender.
Iron Fist wrote:
Quite correct. The North Vietnamese and Viet Cong used to design booby traps not to kill but to maim.
@ Iron Fist:
My big bro got lucky. He was in close proximity when an IED went off. He ended up with a hole blown through his calf. Now there is this big dent due to the missing tissue. Still got the leg and use of it though thank God.
During the Civil war so many solider suffered the horrors of amputations and after wards you got sent home with no training and no prospects of being able to make a life for your self.
NoThreat2U wrote:
Very fortunate indeed!
@ Speranza:
All he remembers is hearing that the Gunny was down, until he tried to stand up and realized it was him. Of course they also drive over those damn IEDs too. Blew up a few vehicles he was in. The Marines just sit there and laugh about it. Not funny at all to me. No one over there is worth dying for IMO.
NoThreat2U wrote:
I would take enemy prisoners and sympathizers and use them as shields. Liberal outrage be damned!
@ Speranza:
Yeah, we really can’t comprehend war on the scale of the Civil War, here in the US at any rate. The dead and wounded were whole families. Saving Private Ryan is a good flick, and was a good policy move when it was done for real, but there were lots of families that sent all the men away and no one came home. On the Indian side of my family we know of two brothers who went to fight. One went with the Union, one with the Confederacy, and neither came home. No one even knows where their graves might be.
@ Speranza:
Agreed. Make one of them walk a few feet in front of our men just in case. It’ll get them first. I am being so mean about this, but after ten years and numerous deployments that left my daughter in tears, I don’t care about over there anymore. He has done more than enough.
@ NoThreat2U:
We should have cleansed Afghanistan with fire after 9-11. We didn’t try and sort out the “innocent” Germans and Japanese after Pearl Harbor, did we? You fight a war to win. There is no higher objective than victory.
Iron Fist wrote:
The day after 9/11/01 -- Afghanistan should have been obliterated.
@ Speranza:
And you’d end up spending the rest of your life in Leavenworth for doing it.
NoThreat2U wrote:
You are being realistic and not nearly as cruel as what they would do to us if they could.
@ Iron Fist:
Again, agreed. You cannot be nice to those who want to kill you. They have lived this way for centuries. A decade or two of trying to civilize them is not going to work. I have just had it. I don’t think we should even try anymore. They wanna live that way? Fine with me…just keep it over there. End immigration from muslim countries. Maybe that will embolden those who really want their countries to change. We force them to live among those who are treating them like shit and maybe they will rise up and bring about change on their own. No change from the blood of my brother or cousins or friends of my children.
lobo91 wrote:
Not if people in the platoon kept their mouths shut. Better to be judged by 12 yadda yadda.
@ lobo91:
No cameras, no record and no proof! But I tell you what -- you can drive over the roads there if you want to.
Well, This could get interesting:
I hate to quote the whole thing, but it is short and to the point. I wonder which side will cave? I can’t see either side really wanting war over this, but somebody has to back down…
@ Speranza:
I don’t like feeling so hateful. I realize there are probably women who don’t appreciate having to live the way they do over there. But they need to throw off their oppressors. Even if they were all trying to help themselves over there, I wouldn’t mind the US backing them up. But damn, we are doing everything. We give them money, food. You name it. They just sit around waiting for the handouts. It frustrates me. We cant change it for them. They have to want it to change. Be a real martyr for your cause, not for allah.
@ Iron Fist:
Hey, see my last post to you in the previous thread…
@ NoThreat2U:
I think when the next great conflageration comes around, America may be more hesitant than in the past to spill her blood for the benefit of others. I could be wrong about that, but that is the sense I get when I talk to people.
Speranza wrote:
There’s no such thing as “no cameras” today, even in Afghanistan or Iraq.
One of the things I tell every group of NCOs I train for deployment over there is that they should assume that anything they do is going to end up on the front page of the NY Times, and act accordingly.
@ Iron Fist:
I sure hope so. It is time for us to worry about the US first. We cant be of any help to anyone anywhere if we can’t even take care of ourselves.
NoThreat2U wrote:
Well sort of, but not in the way you are thinking, they are Muslims, and like all Muslims they believe Allah placed us infidels on the earth to provide for their needs. We owe them because they are the superior beings by virtue of their Islamic faith, (That and their Arab supremacist ideology) and that is how it really is. You cannot defeat an enemy you cannot or refuse to identify.
@ Iron Fist:
She created an account yesterday and will pop on the thread I think. She’s a friend of Urban Infidel’s so well… she’s gottan IN!
lol
@ doriangrey:
Then it is up to us to correct them of that notion. We don’t owe them shit…no matter what their moon god says. I get what you are saying though, and you are right. To them, we owe them. Frak that.
@ m:
Good afternoon Miss M. And how are we today?
Iron Fist wrote:
Fighting wars to win muzz hearts and minds is absurd. Look at those animals that attacked and sexually assaulted the newswoman in egypt. We need to write the m.e. off. They are joyously going backwards as fast as they can and trying to drag us with them. Let them kill each other and when they try to attack us or our allies, we drop the big one. Deport all the muzz here. Put them where they will be happy, in their own filthy islamic holes.
We shouldn’t risk American lives for these animals. If they want to reach out and join humanity in the civilized world, fine, otherwise keep them contained geographically in their own self-imposed prison of islam.
@ taxfreekiller:
Keery just will not go away. I can’t stand him!
@ Speranza:
Yup!
This is way OT, but I read this earlier at Malkins. It has been on my mind all morning. Let me ask, who here wouldn’t have busted down the door and beat this woman senseless for what she did??
LifeSiteNews.com, Feb. 14, described the details of a recently obtained 2008 police report documenting the case of a pregnant teen who was held hostage by a staff member at a Kennewick, Washington, Planned Parenthood facility.
The unnamed 14-year-old, 22 weeks pregnant, was held by staffer Andrea Smasne at the facility against the wishes of her father and against police directives. Because the baby’s father was a 20-year-old under police investigation for sexual misconduct, the pregnancy was considered statutory rape, meaning her father was responsible for her.
But Smasne saw it differently. The staffer continued to refuse the father access to his daughter, claiming the girl was afraid of him, until Officer Wayne Meyer intervened. When he asked Smasne to release the girl, he was told she was “emancipated.”
Meyer said,
I then asked Smasne how old the patient was. She advised the female patient was 14 yoa. I then asked why they would tell the father he had to leave if his juvenile age daughter was there. At that point Smasne stated that once the juvenile is pregnant, the juvenile is emancipated, and further stated the father had no right to be present if the patient did not want him there.
He then contacted the City Attorney’s office to verify the emancipation question and was told “A Juvenile is not emancipated simply by becoming pregnant” and further, “becoming emancipated required a Court process.” The attorney also advised a criminal investigation of Planned Parenthood if such documentation couldn’t be provided.
m wrote:
Hmmm, I’m suspicious of females with the last name Peterson….
Once dated one in college, she was cute, but crazy as all get out, from Taxachuettes too… Different fist name, but still…. 
… 
Rodan wrote:
He has no where to go. He is an old gigolo with a hip replacement.
@ Iron Fist:
Israel should take them out.
@ chickadee:
Their hearts are black. This isn’t the friggin Grinch. There hearts will not change just because. lol lol As to their minds…who wants to win that? Their minds are filled with allah. There is no room in there for anything else.
@ lobo91:
What would happen if lets say in the future, we have a government that doesn’t care about these things and turns a blind eye. Would that be different then?
Speranza wrote:
We’ve done the same. Anti-personnel mines are designed to incapacitate, rather than kill, because an incapacitated soldier takes at least two more out of the fight in order to carry him to safety.
@ NoThreat2U:
Lucky man. Thank him for his service.
@ mfhorn:
Will do
lobo91 wrote:
That is 100% right. Hell, you can’t tell who is videoing you these days, and they can upload it to YouTube from Kandahar and it can go viral without any MFM organization touching it. That is going to get worse, not better. With terrorists, it is best to assume that they are videotaping any incident for the propaganda value of it. The propagana war is simply a different part of the battlespace. One that we really aren’t fighting in. Calling Islam the Religion of Peace™ and going on about how great it is just makes us look weak in the eyes of our target audience. What we need is a patriotic Hollywood that would analyse our target audience and make for us the propaganda to sway them in our favor. That wouldn’t win the war, but it sure would be better than what we have going on now.
Rodan wrote:
Not really.
You’re talking about things athat are violations of the UCMJ, for one thing.
@ lobo91:
Gotcha, just asking.
NoThreat2U wrote:
The more we do for them the less they respect us.
@ Iron Fist:
Hollywood supports Islam. They view it as a 3rd World Liberation force.
@ Iron Fist:
And it could very well be one of your own people doing it.
Does the name Bradley Manning ring a bell?
@ Rodan:
I agree, but I bet she backs down if the Iranins have the stones to push it. Israel is getting leaned on by everybody. She is in a bind, moreso with the instability in Egypt. Iran knows this. From the Iranian side, they would be foolish to ignore the oppertunities presented by these circumstances.
Rodan wrote:
The bottom line is, there are some things that we don’t do. Just because they would, doesn’t mean that we will.
We’re better than that.
@ chickadee:
Yep. My words to them would be if you wanna live like this….good luck. Don’t call the US when the shit hits the fan. Screw you guys, I’m going home. lol
@ Iron Fist:
She sold sink them with submarines and not say a word about it.
@ Rodan:
Yeah, I was taling about what we need, not what exists. Also, our own government seems in league with enemy propagandists. Look at what Dick Durbin (D-al Qaeda) and Ted Kennedy did over Abu GrabAss and all. John fucking Kerry. *spit* Just saying his name leaves my mouth slimey. Traitors, all, but given free reiegn and paid for with your tax dollars. No wonder we are losing.
chickadee wrote:
I got roundly criticized yesterday for admitting that I had no sympathy or compassion for that reporter. People assumed I was saying that she deserved what happened to her, I was not saying or implying anything like that. That said.
Our Fifth Column Treasonous Media are deceiving the American General Public with regards to who Muslims are and what they believe, the blame cannot be laid solely at the Muslims feet when our own Fifth Column Treasonous Media intentionally refuse to inform the public regarding what the Muslims believe and the extent that they act on those beliefs.
What the individuals in the crowd did to that CBS reporter was 100 percent within the doctrine and ideology spelled out in the Koran. Those men were not acting in a manner inconsistent with the teaching of Islam, it really is that simple.
@ lobo91:
I’ll have to remember to tell my friend Barb and her two little boys when she goes to visit her husband’s grave to be happy because he was better than they were.
lobo91 wrote:
That wold be great consolation to the maimed men or dead soldiers families. We do not need to prove that we are better then them, we jsut are.
@ Speranza:
Yep. That would be best. Look around and whistle if anybody asks. Musta been seamonsters got them…
NoThreat2U wrote:
Agreed!
Iron Fist wrote:
That’s what I would do. Claim they entered Israeli territorial waters and were “spies”.
@ Speranza:
I wonder why I feel so mean today? Seriously. I think I need to get out of the house.
@ NoThreat2U:
While claiming America just came to kill all of their children.
lobo91 wrote:
But only when you are dealing with a opponent that views the life of their soldier as worth saving, it doesn’t work so good when your enemy believes that his reward for dying while fighting you is 72 rooms each filled with 72 virgins.
NoThreat2U wrote:
I suggest that you ask your brother about “honor” sometime. He’s a Marine. They get it.
Maybe he can explain it to you.
@ NoThreat2U:
Hey huneybunch! I’m doing well, thanks for asking! How about yourself?
OT re; Lara Logan. Read RSM. Then read Iceweasel’s page on the same article.
RSM here
@ m:
Dont forget we also rape their women and sterlize their men with vaccines. I would treat them the same way I treated my kids when they acted stupid. You don’t want the medicine? OK, remember not to cry to me when you are sick and dying. lol lol
@ m:
Were it up to me, I’d cut off All aid to the Third World. We are borrowing that money from China, anyway. If the Chinese want to help Africa, more power to them, but our turn in that particular barrel is done.
@ m:
I feel mean today. I think I need to get out for a bit. lol lol
@ doriangrey:
We don’t use AP mines anymore, anyway, so it’s not really an issue in the current fight.
I was just pointing out that it’s a valid military tactic.
@ lobo91:
Have they taken the Claymore out of service? How sad…
@ lobo91:
He has explained it to me because I say the same thing to him all the time. The only difference is, I don’t have to live by his code of honor since I am not a Marine. I choose to be an angry mean bitch about all of this. He is confined by rules and standards whereas I can say what I want.
Speranza wrote:
I’m not comfortable with the “we’re better than them” meme either. I like the idea of it and feel it is a noble idea but as the danger to our country increases, I lean towards doing WHATEVER it takes to quell the savages and stay alive.
Iron Fist wrote:
We can still use them, as long as they’re command-detonated (no trip wires, though).
Claymores weren’t what I was talking about, though. Those don’t “maim” people, generally. They tend to leave a pink mist…
Speranza wrote:
No… Just claiming we are makes us no better than them, because they also claim to be better than us. No, we genuinely have to have a provable justification to make that claim. Otherwise that claim is just another form of ideological supremacist bullshit.
The Irony of this is priceless:
Yeah, man, fight tha Power! With, um, power…
@ NoThreat2U:
He chooses to be “confined” by those standards. So do I.
So does everyone else who chooses to put on the uniform.
@ chickadee:
We are some brutal chicks on this forum. lol lol COuld you imagine them trying to put us in burkhas?????? lol
doriangrey wrote:
Exactly.
@ doriangrey:
Apparently the group of women and 20 Egyptian soldiers were. Thank goodness.
@ lobo91:
I know that and I understand it. Doesn’t mean I have to like it though.
@ doriangrey:
doriangrey wrote:
No need to be suspicious of me!
@ Iron Fist:
And we’ll just ignore the amount of corporate money that goes to fund left-wing causes…
@ chickadee:
I’m not better than them. I’m Johnny Hobbes’ fucking State of Nature made flesh, nasty, mean, brutish, and all that shit. Even the “poor” and “short” provisions
Do unto others before they do unto you is the comandment, Victory is the only goal. The only reason not to nerve gas the lot of them is that nerve gas drifts downwind and the propaganda value it has to the enemy. That doesn’t mean we don’t nerve gas them, just consider if it will move us towards victory or take us back from it. Everything should be on the table.
@ KristaPeterson:
Welcome Krista. Please pardon our ADD…we tend to veer off in many directions on a post. Great post BTW
Iron Fist wrote:
Heh heh heh, The Irony is even deeper than you think young Padawan… The organization is called… Progressives United… PU for short… And yes, they really do stink….
Someone comes at you with a knife to kill you but you chose to fight back only with your fists instead of a knife or gun because you do not want to break the law and want to fight fair and ultimately because you are better (and soon to be deader) then he is.
@ doriangrey:
WTF? Win The Future, of course…
@ KristaPeterson:
… She says with her hands raised and teeth bared coming right atcha!!
Welcome to The Blogmocracy!
KristaPeterson wrote:
Welcome and this is a timely thread.
@ NoThreat2U:
Thanks so much! I enjoy reading all your opinions even if it is a little off subject. That is exactly why I love to write!
KristaPeterson wrote:
<—- Closes one eye and squints at Krista, well, yer not from Taxachuettes are ya?
Every now and then I read about athletes from teams who skip going to team visits to Veterans hospitals. The Mets had one or two guys last year who skipped out. Pissed me off.
@ doriangrey:
No never been there!
KristaPeterson wrote:
The topic brings out comments and then people comment on the comments and we go all over the place.
@ Speranza:
Exactly. I am better trained than 99% of the people that walk the face of this earth, but if they start something, I am not going to access our relative strengths and weaknesses, and modify what I’ll do to fight fair. Fuck that. The only thing that saves their lives is complete and total submission almost immediately. Anything less, well, it is their resistance to my technique that does the damage. That is how I’ve been trained since I was a kid. And karate is what I use when you have gotten past my gun and knife. Do whatever is necessary. Never get yourself hurt sparring someone else the just consequences of their actions.
@ KristaPeterson:
Welcome! We don’t bite…much…
@ KristaPeterson:
Most of us don’t stay on schedule with our ritalin. lol One subject always leads to another so never feel offended if we stray off topic some.
Iron Fist wrote:
A civilized fight only is possible if the both opponents are civilized, not just one. We shot German soldiers captured wearing American uniforms and we shot S.S. guards captured at Dachau concentration camp in Bavaria and never felt the need to explain or apologize. After the Malmedy Massacre of American soldiers, the word got out “Take no S.S. prisoners”.
@ Speranza:
I think that is good sometimes. It really broadens the conversation.
In martial arts school I was taught that well executed technique is the answer to superior physical strength.
NoThreat2U wrote:
Oh I agree. We go onto subtopics of the original topics.
@ Speranza:
Afghanistan didn’t really cause 9/11, it was just a refuge of choice for the perpetrators, nearly all of whom were Saudis.
Nuking Mecca would have been a lot more appropriate; get at the root of the trouble.
The Taliban are nasty assholes, no question about it, but their main objective is to victimize other Afghans.
@ Speranza:
That was perfectly legal, and still is. If you’re wearing the enemy’s uniform, you’re considered a spy, and not entitled to any protections.
@ Speranza:
It shows how one thing always leads to another.
@ doriangrey:
It was so naive of her to put herself in that predicament. The crowds in egypt were salivating, seething, rampaging men. All they saw when they looked at her was a blonde bimbo ripe for the taking. They didn’t see her as a freedom fighter there to help them. She was uncovered meat. Period.
I bet her feelings are hurt today. I wonder if she learned anything. I wonder who she will blame? Could be that she will blame “white males” who cause muzz men to become so angry they have to attack western women.
Notice, the mfm tried to cover this brutal assault up because it reflects so badly on their pets, the muzz.
@ Iron Fist:
I was taught “offense wins fights, you can stand around all day blocking his punches but you will not deter or stop him until you start landing punches and kicks of your own on him”.
@ Speranza:
Technique is the watchword. I have seen it phrased “The Cult of Technique”. Sometimes brute strength will overcome technique. You have to be flexible, and by that I don’t mean doin splits. Flow is what i was taught. If a technique fails, let it fail, and go on to something else. I love the martial arts. Nothing has been worse about my long illness than the way it has interfered with that.
chickadee wrote:
They saw an attractive western woman with blonde hair and thought “Hey why not?”
Iron Fist wrote:
If someone is attacking you you have to assume that it is because they are physically stronger then you are so in a contest of strength v. strength you will probably lose. Attack the targets on them that they cannot strengthen no matter how big and strong they are such ss their temples, throats, balls, knee caps, eyes, etc.
NoThreat2U wrote:
No, I can’t imagine ever wearing muzz conquest garb. I love pretty clothes too much.
fck the rop
@ Speranza:
Can’t see, can’t breathe, can’t move, can’t fight. Dead is good. Those were the watchwords in the circle in the dojo where I moved. Not every student moved in those circles. Most students didn’t. People don’t like to work with me because my techniques hurt. Pain is instructive. That doesn’t mean I blast the poor student with every move, but when I lock down a joint lock, they know someone has them. Most people in a dojo want a cool new way to do cardio. We can do that for you. But we taught much deeper if you wanted to learn and were considered suitable to teach.
@ Iron Fist:
The history of the sea is replete with incidents of ships that vanished without a trace. Rogue waves, storms at sea, collisions in the night, sea monsters?
Maybe there’s a “Gaza Triangle”. If not, the could be.
@ KristaPeterson:
Welcome {KristaPeterson},
So nice to see you.
Great post. What an important topic.
Alberta Oil Peon wrote:
I like the way you think
Speranza wrote:
Now you are just plain being ridiculous. Using prisoners as human shields isnt even remotely analogous. We do not commit atrocities or turn a blind eye to them being committed by our people. It doesn’t matter how horrible our enemies are, we do not stoop to that level of barbarism.
We are not talking about a back ally brawl where what ever weapon you can lay your hands on decides who lives or dies. What we are talking about is fighting off a savage horde without becoming even greater monsters than the horde we are fighting off.
Yes, it can be done, yes we can do it, yes we are doing it. If we sacrifice our honor and our principals defending ourselves against the Muslim hordes we might as well just commit genocide against them and when we are finished go on to conquer the entire world by military force, because that’s what we will have reduced ourselves to. Nothing but a merciless ruthless conquest based amoral society. All hail the new Roman Empire, Pax Americana.
Alberta Oil Peon wrote:
Afghanistan was hosting alQaeda so they enabled the 9/11 attacks.
@ chickadee:
They will get my heels when they pry them from my cold dead hands. lol lol
doriangrey wrote:
You say that like it would be a bad thing…
@ doriangrey:
Don’t tell me I am being ridiculous. In war soldiers always do what is needed to survive. Their loyalty under fire is not to their country or to their president but is to their comrades and they do not consult the Articles of War while under attack.
KristaPeterson wrote:
Oh… Well in that case, welcome aboard little lady…
@ Iron Fist:
I agree.
If the enemy has the same moral code as we do, that’s one thing but I don’t give a shit abt being better than a horde of rabid savages.
@ doriangrey:
And the reason we don’t do those things isn’t just because of fear that someone will find out, which is something a lot of people here will never understand.
@ Speranza:
The Taliban and al Qaeda were, for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable. In World War Two, we didn’t distinguish between civillians in Dresden and the Nazi leadership in Dresden. We certinly didn’t bother with sorting the SS from the Waffen SS from the SA while the bullets were flying. It was insane from the start to expect us to do so in Afghanistan.
Iron Fist wrote:
Yeah like all the Pax Americana did was just rebuild Western Europe and Japan.
@ Speranza:
“Afghanistan” was even less of a country then than it is today.
The Taliban was hosting al Qaeda, not “Afghanistan.”
Iron Fist wrote:
He’s right -- it would be.
Iron Fist wrote:
The Taliban need to know that they cannot have it both ways, enable al Qaeda and yet not share in the inevitable retribution for al Qaeda atrocities.
lobo91 wrote:
Yup, Geneva Convention (which I generally have little use for) defines it as Perfidy, and allows any individual engaging in perfidy to be summarily executed on the spot.
Tonite on Nat Geo…
Tonight, hear the dramatic and emotional story of 11 African-American soldiers who were brutally murdered by the SS in Wereth, Belgium just two days into the Battle of the Bulge.
lobo91 wrote:
Whatever
@ chickadee:
The Geneva Conventions were only supposed to apply to honorable combatants that kept to them. They don’t apply to savages that fly planes into civillian buildings and cut the heads off of helpless reporters. Trying to live up to them while giving the Enemy carte blanche to violate them is nuts.
@ Iron Fist:
What is insane is suggesting that we should have incinerated tens of millions of people because they happened to live in hovels somewhere within a few hundred miles of a terrorist camp.
@ NoThreat2U:
Thanks for the heads up Nothreat2u. As I said earlier, we shot S.S. prisoners on the spot after the Malmedy Massacre.
Iron Fist wrote:
It is a prescription for needless deaths of men from your own side.
@ Speranza:
Now there’s a well-reasoned argument…
//
@ Mike C.:
I certainly don’t see that. The Barbarians need to become civilized, or we need to do away with the barbarians. Same as it ever was. The old Pax Romana was pretty good for its time, too. We can do better, though, if we will.
@ Speranza:
I figured someone here might find that interesting to watch.
Iron Fist wrote:
And after Pearl harbor we did not issue an arrest warrant for Admiral Yamamoto.
NoThreat2U wrote:
You figured right -- me (at least).
@ lobo91:
There are only about 20 million in all of Afghanistan, and it would have been fewer than that. Still, every major population center should have been hit. Retributive power was built into our strategic capability for a purpose. If you aren’t willing to use it, you might as well not have it. That is what our nuclear deterrant is worth now. Nothing. Iran will probably show us that more graphically, by and by.
lobo91 wrote:
Thanks Sarge. As if I cared for the difference whether Afghanistan hosted al Qaeda or the al Qaeda hosted Afghanistan They were both Muslim scumbags. ////
@ Speranza:
Germany only hosted the Nazis…
Iron Fist wrote:
What is somewhat noteworthy is that before bin Laden and his minions joined up the Taliban during their war with the Soviets, was that suicide bombing as a tactic was virtually unknown. The Tolly-ban was only interested in fighting, winning and returning to their poppy fields among other evil hobbies. They initially refused to the let Arabs into the fray because they were in a hurry to martyrdom. Looks like that’s all changed now.
Speranza wrote:
Hi Speranza *waving*
Don’t you fear that such actions would backfire ? Next time they take US war prisoners or US civilian contract workers as their human shields. That’s why we have committed us to the Geneva Convention.
@ Speranza:
I love Nat Geo Channel. I was gonna cut down my cable package but there are just too many educational and informative channels I don’t want to go without. lol
@ Speranza:
I have no problem with exterminating every last Taliban and every last Al Qaeda, but we should try to avoid needlessly killing ordinary Afghans, even if most of them are primitive savages.
But both Al Qaeda and the Taliban ultimately take their marching orders from the black rock in the silver vagina. Throw the damn thing into the fires of Mt. Doom, figuratively speaking.
Iron Fist wrote:
No US president who’s held office since the advent of nuclear weapons would have ordered an attack like that.
lobo91 wrote:
Yea, I know. While I was never in the military myself, I do come from a long line of American Military people. And not just single enlistment soldiers either, most of my family were career Military, quite a few officers in that history as well.
There are things that fathers pass down to their sons, career military tend to pass down the idea’s of honor, integrity and loyalty. The emphasis they place on those words and the value they give them tends to be a bit different than those placed on them by the civilian population. I am not saying better or superior, just different.
Afternoon all. Christie is talking on FOX live now.
@ Guggi:
They already do that.
We don’t adhere to the Geneva Conventions out of fear of retribution. We do so because it’s the right thing to do.
Now Aliyev’s semi-”secular” Azerbaijan is under threat of unraveling ::sigh::…
Guggi wrote:
Gug, they are doing the most horrible things now. Committing atrocities and not bound by any notions of honor from the Geneva Convention. We are fighting animals who use their own children as human shields, who put suicide bombs on 10 year olds. And when the muzz get an American or Israeli prisoner you don’t want to know what they do to them.
I just love our Overseas Contingency Operations. Hopefully they will call my brother back up so he can participate in our fight to a draw.//////////
@ Guggi:
They started this war in an act of terrorism that killed 3,000 civillians. That is really only about ten percent of the casualties they intended to inflict. Hell, 100,000 p[eople worked, visited, and played at any given time in the Twin Towers. It was a target of zero military utility. It was an act of total war, and should have been replied to in kind. No, I don’t worry about them then wanting to do similar to us. Number one, if they get the capibility to do so they will, so being nuice to them is useless. Number two, if we followed my plan, a thousand years from now Afghanistan would be looked on in awe and fear the way Carthage has been for the last 2,000 years. The Carthaginians haven’t bothered anybody lately that I recall…
@ NoThreat2U:
Wow! I wish I had Nat Geo.
Since President Aliyev of Azerbaijan signed a decree which recognized the State of Fail-estine…
Israel threatened Azerbaijan [that it would recognize Armenian-occupied enclave] recognize Nagorno-Karabakh
Go for it, Israel! (I’m serious.)
@ Alberta Oil Peon:
It’s not only needless, it’s pointless.
99% of the people in Afghanistan couldn’t find America on a map. Hell, 99% of them have probably never seen a map.
Killing millions of illiterate goat herders is a waste of time and resources.
@ lobo91:
That’s my point because we live in a rule of law. We would sell everything we fought for.
@ Bureaucat:
Maybe you can watch it online???
I just love it! So sorry you don’t get it
NoThreat2U wrote:
There is never a draw with the muzz, It’s called a hudna and they will be back to fight again when they regroup and gain strength. This enemy needs to be destroyed.
@ lobo91:
Aside from Reagan, I don’t have much use for any of the Presidents that have held the office since the advent of nuclear weapons. Most of them were venal and weak men. Eisenhower was better than that judgement, and so, too, was W, but even Saint JFK wasn’t worth a bucket of fresh piss. America has only survived this long because the system of government bequethed to us by our founders is stronget than any one man, or any one President. It has taken the actions of many Presidents, Republicans and Democrats, to bring us here where we may see the end of all of this.
@ Bureaucat:
See what you can find here….
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/videos/player.html?channel=60850
Iron Fist wrote:
Well, if Pocky-STAWN wants to hold our diplomat in violation of International Law we can always start there.
@ chickadee:
ed. Hence the / tags
Guggi wrote:
It’s ironic that someone from Europe understands America better than most of the Americans on here…
Iron Fist wrote:
9/11 was how the mujahideen repaid us for siding with them in Bosnia and Kosovo…well, after all, to quote Surah at-Taubah Ayah 29…
@ NoThreat2U:
I was agreeing with you.
@ Iron Fist:
I don’t either, but my point still stands.
None of them, Reagan included, would have taken the action you advocate.
lobo91 wrote:
You misunderstand me. You don’t kill them simply because they are there. You simply kill them because the ones you need to kill are among them and there really is no way to distinguish them. You reduce them to nothing, becuse that is the consequences of an act like 9-11.
@ lobo91:
We understand it just fine. Like I said though, doesn’t mean we have to like it.
@ chickadee:
I know. lol It should have said agreed, but only the ed showed up.
lobo91 wrote:
I’m torn on that particular issue. Personally I don’t see any Muslim as innocent, but more as non-combative support personal, and I see them that way because that’s how they see themselves.
I also see that had we nuked Afghanistan we would surely be suffering from the law of unintended consequences right now. Sadly I am afraid it will eventually come down to the Belmont Club’s Three Conjectures.
lobo91 wrote:
That doesn’t mean that it is the wrong action.
Macker wrote:
Change it from Pakistan to Big-Bang Ladesh?
Iron Fist wrote:
I missed this argument. I assume from the tone of things that someone suggested Nuking some Muslims somewhere? Like Lobo91 said, ain’t gonna happenn
Sadly,every war brings great advances in the prevention and treatment of traumatic injuries. This exercise in futility is no different.
lobo91 wrote:
Merci beaucoup !
Iron Fist wrote:
Well, if the ROE’s bind our hands to even kill the actual jihadis you know we can’t even think abt. muzz collateral damage.
We’re doomed.
If America were a business, this would mean it is time to sell her stock.
@ doriangrey:
While that’s true, it’s also true that for about 90% of the world’s Muslims, it’s all theoretical. I don’t really care how many people living in some valley in Afghanistan think I should be killed as an infidel, as long as they’re halfway around the world and have no way to get here.
I don’t even want to think about what things would be like today if we’d nuked Afghanistan. We’d be a pariah state. Some people don’t get the difference between the real world and a biker bar, though.
It very well might.
I’m not for nuking anyone….yet.
The hearts and minds strategy didn’t work in Nam ,why does anyone think it’ll work in an arguably more hostile situation.
@ Nevergiveup:
Not, at least until they nuke us first. If we don’;t collapse internally, nuclear terrorism is just about inevitible. How close to inevitible depends mainly on how close Iran is to working weapons. We’re certainly not going to do anything to stop them or give them any reason to believe our reaction would be any different than our reaction to 9-11. That isn’t sufficient to deter them from doing anything that the can.
lobo91 wrote:
Bullshit. People still do business with China. People still do business with Iran. And we’d still be the money player in the world. People would still do business with us. What they wouldn’t do, ever again, is allow terrorist training camps in their territory or even the hint that anything that they are doing is a threat to American civillians.
Iron Fist wrote:
Yeah your probably right. But when your dealing with people who don’t care if they, or their children, live or die, your kinda between a rock and a hard place. Which is Why, places like Iran and Pakistan should not be allowed to have WMDs. Will it take us losing a US City to make us to something? Probably.
vagabond trader wrote:
Yes, nukes have to stay on the table as an option. Certainly with the m.e. going nuts.
If anyone had hopes for the ‘hearts and minds’ strategy, they should realize now that it is not working.
lobo91 wrote:
That’s why I am torn on this issue, if it does go to conjecture two ( and I honestly cannot see it not going there), we would have been far better off going right straight for their jugular than building up to it in stages.
@ lobo91:
You know the famous slogan ?
*Ami go home but please take us with you*
@ Iron Fist:
The Chinese and the Russians might. The EU, Japan, and Canada wouldn’t, at least until we turned our president over to The Hague for trial.
@ Nevergiveup:
Pakistan and Iran will have what the hell ever they want. They don’t play by the rules. We do because we are better than that. Just keep repeating that over and over again when another US city gets hit. “Well, they took out the Sears Tower but I sure feel good about myself that we are better than that.”
They have already been here and killed over 3000 of us.I don’t think they’ll stop trying anytime soon.
@ lobo91:
So we thumb our nose at the ICC, kinda like Bashir in Sudan is doing.
Iron Fist wrote:
Sigh… Read The Belmont Club’s “Conjecture Two” It might explain why I lean towards nuking places like Mecca and Media right now. I’m pretty sure these guys got it right.
@ vagabond trader:
Illiterate goat herders from Afghanistan didn’t.
lobo91 wrote:
I wouldn’t even turn Obama over to the Hague
Nevergiveup wrote:
I’d rather send him to Gitmo.
NoThreat2U wrote:
If they take out a US City, I’d be prepared to take out half the world in retaliation
@ Nevergiveup:
The U.S.A. not even recognizes The Hague (and this has my full support).
@ lobo91:
Last time I checked A-stan is where all the fuggers trained with full support of the government.I don’t care if they can read a law book or not,they were complicit.
lobo91 wrote:
OK I could go along with that
@ lobo91:
Yeah, let Japan, as an example, do no business with us. What does that mean? Are they going to pack up the Toyota plants in the US and stop selling us cars? That isn’t going to happen. They might make some kind of diplomatic noise, but they have nothing that they can effectively do against us. What is the EU but a collection of parasites that have been living off of the United States since the end of World War Two? Would they go to China to defend them from Russia? Lord knows they wouldn’t build a military of their own. Besides which, you are forgetting the atrocity that sparked this action. We aren’t talking about nuking Afghanistan for target practice. Never get yourself hurt sparing your enemy the just consequences of his actions. You say that we would have become a pariah state, but who has cut their ties with the Muzzies over their atrocities? No, the world would have respected (or feared) America’s actions. They might would have carped, but no one would have done anything of substance against us.
@ Nevergiveup:
I fear that would never happen. We would just double down on our efforts to win their hearts and minds.
vagabond trader wrote:
The 9/11 hijackers trained in the US. Maybe we should nuke those flight schools.
As for being complicit, the majority of Afghanistan’s population didn’t even support the Taliban, much less al Qaeda.
@ Iron Fist:
Then again, الرئيس أوباما and the rest of the world sees Israel as a pariah state anyways. So frak it.
Iron Fist wrote:
I would like an American Empire. hell I’ll sign up seize someone else’s land and marry the local women. I’m Latin so its in my DNA!
@ doriangrey:
We can’t even get agreement on retributive strikes against the enemy that did this to us. Strategic strikes against a putative non-combatant wouldn’t even be considered. Notice I am not saying strike the entire Muslim world. I am limiting retribution to the Nation-State (or as close to a nation-state as they come to in that part of the world) with culpability for the actions.
NoThreat2U wrote:
أوباما certainly would…and blame us Stupid Americans because of it.
NoThreat2U wrote:
Nah we lose a city, things will change. But that is some high price to wake up the morons in this country
@ Rodan:
Seriously, though, I am up for it. Someone has to civilize the barbarians. All multicultuarlism does is allow the barbarians to barbarize you.
@ Rodan:
ROFLMAO***** I wondered when you would chime in here. lol
@ Macker:
So true
@ Nevergiveup:
Keep in mind that TOTUS claims we could absorb another hit, so I really don’t see him getting pissed at all if something like that happened. More jizya and sharia law would be his answer.
@ lobo91:
They got around
Israel and project interchange
@ lobo91:
Or Germany ?
@ lobo91:
See peopel are frustrated. We are dealing with an enemy that is brutal betyond belief. Islam has only been defeated by more ruthless adversaries. Only the Spanish, Mongols, Polish and Russians have infliected massive defeates on them.
I’m not in favor of nuke strikles, but I do favor WWII style fire bombings and destroying their civilization. They are savages and have caused more genocdei in the last 1400 years than any other force until the rise of Communism and Nazism.
I’ll defer to you since you wear the uniform and I don’t. But I wa sjust giving you my viewpoint!
@ Nevergiveup:
9-11 was as bad as a tactical nuke would have been. It was an unprovoked attack on a civillian population. It was about as bad as an act can be against all those principles that are being bandied about. Our reaction was more like it was a major crime. The Taliban/al Qaeda are the fucking Hell’s Angels, and we’re going to shoot some of them, and arrest some of them, but we aren’t going to war against them. Not really. We have fought this action with our hands tied. The only thing saving us is the shere incompetance of our enemies. They won’t stay incompetant forever.
Hi All. Yes -- this will be a ‘fly-by’ it’s my Saturday and i’m still using the library computer to check bank account, etc.
Good post -- i’m going to try and attach a link to what an Army nurse can look like in 2011. He’s my oldest -- he may become a doctor some day (not sure yet) but having already picked his career path -- he then decided he wanted to serve. He will be an officer when he graduates in a few.
http://armyrotc.smugmug.com/LTC2010/CoC146thINF/Combat-Water-Survival/12834714_3ffag#909410143_jPriA-A-LB
@ NoThreat2U:
Thx!
@ lobo91:
The Afghans rape young boys and use them for sex. I have no respect for them as a people.
@ spinmore:
Looks like a brave strong handsome young man. Congratulations
@ Bureaucat:
You are quite welcome
@ Iron Fist:
Look at how Islam is the defacto religion of America. They are winning, we are losing.
20 years ago people laughed at them, now they are ouir defacto overlords.
I spit on the Koran and their pedophile Bi-sexual dog hating prophet.
Rodan wrote:
ROTFLMAO… I bet you would, but hey, I’m half Irish, if it weren’t for the invention of alcohol we would rule the world right now…
(heh heh heh, ya it’s from an old joke, God invented alcohol to keep the Irish from conquering the world)
@ spinmore:
Dang,I never worked with nurses like that.
Best wishes!
@ Guggi:
The US did worse to germany than they ever did to a Muslim country. If Hitler had been born 70 years later, he would of beaten today’s US. Our leaders would of called Nazism a ideology of pece and tretaed Germans as gods.
Thanks God this happened 70 years ago.
Iron Fist wrote:
Absolutely wrong
@ Rodan:
~~shudder~~
@ Rodan:
Spit ain’t worth it, Rodan. Shit, Piss and Fire, and Small Arms would be much more appropriate!
@ vagabond trader:
Kinda makes you wanna fake an injury huh??? lol
@ NoThreat2U:
lol,I did work with a great guy years ago,a Nam vet who joined the Navy and became a corpse-man thinking he’d get the best of it safely aboard ship. Until the day he was reminded the Navy supported Marines and his azz was headed for the jungle.
@ NoThreat2U:
I have this fevah…
/
@ Nevergiveup:
Three thousand dead (and what, 20,000 injured? I’ve never seen that figure) and roughly $1 trillion in economic damage. It wuld depend on where and how you used the nuke, but a low-yield tactical weapon, sure. It was worse than Pearl Harbor, in any event. Considerably worse than Pearl Harbor.
@ Nevergiveup:
And you don’t answer the rest of that post. Because I am absolutely right.
vagabond trader wrote:
Bill Cosby does a damned funny routine on that… (take two aspirin and mail me the five bucks)
@ vagabond trader:
Surprise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ m:
In all honesty, these youngsters who want to serve impress me.
@ doriangrey:
Have to look for that. Cosby did some funny stuff back then.
m wrote:
ROTFLMAO… I knew NT2U was a cougar but I did realize you were too…
vagabond trader wrote:
@ doriangrey:
rrRRooOOooRRrr
lol!
Iron Fist wrote:
You’re not even in the same area code as right.
@ lobo91:
When we get hit again (and we will get hit gain), we’ll see what happens, won’t we?
@ doriangrey:
Classic.Wonder how many smug young men thought they had beat the rap,lol.
m wrote:
Hey, you know I’m only 23 right?
…
@ spinmore:
Impressive indeed!
NoThreat2U wrote:
Exactly! Hey, I uh, have this little pain in my lower back…
In all seriousness, that is one fine young US soldier.
My brother is a Navy vet and he has had 2 bouts of cancer in the last 30 years. No idea if they were service related but I must say he has been very fortunate to receive excellent care from the VA hospital 20 miles from his home. Every vet deserves the same.
@ doriangrey:
That 50th birthday was because you partied twice as hard as everyone else?
~:D
Nice!
@ Iron Fist:
@ lobo91:
We are all going to have to agree to disagree on this.
Let’s go to the next thread and bash Obama!
m wrote:
Heh heh heh, I’m guessing that isnt the first time a man has lied to you while trying to ummmm… well…
Iron Fist wrote:
Not a question of “if” but “when”.
spinmore wrote:
He’s adorable. Of course in a very manly military way.
@ Speranza:
I agree. It is a matter of time, and on what scale, but we will get hit again. What we have done has no deterrant value in the Muslim world.
Iron Fist wrote:
Nothing we could do would deter people who are willing to blow themselves up…
@ lobo91:
Then, frankly, we are going to have to kill them until we run out of them. We could blockade them, I guess, but the problem with blockades is both that people run them and that over time people start ignoring them. So we really have no options. Because I am not going to surrender. I am not going to let them kill me.
lobo91 wrote:
Then I say keep on killing them.
Rodan wrote:
That is a target rich environment!
lobo91 wrote:
So, what does that leave us as an option, conjecture two?
Speranza wrote:
Sadly I do not think we have a choice, but please read the Belmont Club’s Three Conjecture and focus on Conjecture two.
@ doriangrey:
What do you think I have been advocating for over nine years now? I knew the answer to this on 9-11. I knew it was Osama and his merry men, and I knew the response would have to be terrible to behjold if it was to be credible. Maybe blowing up Afghanistan won’t deter Iran, but our passive-aggressive come-won’t-you-be-my-neighbor schtick certainly won’t. Lobo has about got me convinced that the only thing to do is a world-wide seek-and-destroy mission for all of them. Not quite. I think they can be deterred. But you won’t do it with feel-good gestures like targeted strikes and worrying about collateral damage.
@ doriangrey:
Ludwig the algebraic genius could figure it all out.