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A terrible mistake – the partition of India and the creation of Pakistan

by Speranza ( 61 Comments › )
Filed under Afghanistan, India, Islamic Terrorism, Israel, Nuclear Weapons, Pakistan, Palestinians, Syria, Taliban, Terrorism, UK at May 13th, 2011 - 8:30 am

I agree, India should be a natural ally of the United States of America. Sadly the early decades of Indian independence under the Nehru/Gandhi family rule saw India as an unofficial ally of the U.S.S.R. Unfortunately President Obama has a soft spot in his heart for Pock-ee-stahn. Pakistan is example number 1 of a failed nation, a nation ruled by military men and possessed of a violent citizenry who seem to want nothing better to do with their miserable lives then wage jihad. Funny how the same folks who believe in a bi-national state of Israel/Palestine (which would become an Arab state quickly) do not seem to want Pakistan and India to be merged into a single nation.

by Michael Barone

When you get into discussions about the Middle East with certain people, you start hearing that the great mistake was the partition of Palestine and the creation of the state of Israel in 1948. If that had somehow just not happened, you hear, everything would be all right.

That’s not my view. I think the big mistake made in a British possession around that time was the partition of the Indian subcontinent into India and Pakistan in 1947.

The British thought that Pakistan under the leadership of the secular lawyer Muhammad Ali Jinnah would turn out to be an acceptable counterbalance to an India led by Jawaharlal Nehru’s Congress party.

But Jinnah was suffering from cancer at the time and died in September 1948, 13 months after partition. And Pakistan ever since has been — well, let’s say it has been a problem.

While India has had only one brief suspension of its democratic constitution since independence, Pakistan has been ruled by generals most of the time since 1948. Pakistan was an American ally during the Cold War and helped expel the Soviets from Afghanistan.

But in the years since the collapse of the Soviet Union, elements in Pakistan’s military and its intelligence service, the ISI, backed the Taliban in Afghanistan and supported terrorist attacks on India. They have sheltered A.Q. Khan, the nuclear scientist who developed Pakistan’s nuclear bomb and conducted, as analyst Walter Russell Mead writes, “the nuclear proliferation circus that helped countries like North Korea, Libya, Syria and Iran advance their nuclear ambitions.”

[...]

And the fact that American forces found and killed Osama bin Laden in a $1 million house less than a mile from Pakistan’s military academy in Abbottabad makes it plain that some if not all Pakistani leaders were harboring America’s No. 1 enemy.

Pakistan’s current president, Asif Ali Zardari, took to the pages of the Washington Post to deny that Pakistan knew anything about bin Laden’s hideout. And National Security Adviser Tom Donilon told Sunday talk show viewers that he has “not seen any evidence at least to date that the political, military or intelligence leadership of Pakistan knew” about it.

[...]

But we shouldn’t kid ourselves. Since bin Laden’s death, Pakistani media have, for the second time in six months, divulged the identity of the CIA station chief in the country. People in the Pakistani military and/or the ISI are giving the United States a big middle finger.

How should we respond? We could list Pakistan as a state sponsor of terrorism, we could cut off the billions in aid we send to the Pakistan government, and we could conduct additional operations like the Abbottabad raid. But those moves would risk an open rupture that would imperil our efforts in Afghanistan.

One card we could play would be to strengthen relations with India. In the Cold War we backed Pakistan against India, but after 1991 we moved closer to India, first under Bill Clinton and more so under George W. Bush with the U.S.-India nuclear cooperation treaty. I’ve long felt that the India card was one reason Musharraf agreed to cooperate after Sept. 11.

[...]

In retrospect the partition of India and the creation of Pakistan in 1947 was a terrific mistake. Unfortunately, we can’t rewind history.

Read the rest: History weeps at the partition of India and Pakistan

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61 Responses to “A terrible mistake – the partition of India and the creation of Pakistan”
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  1. Philip_Daniel
    1 | May 13, 2011 8:32 am

    we could cut off the billions in aid jizya we send to the Pakistan government


  2. Nevergiveup
    2 | May 13, 2011 8:44 am

    yeah the partition may have been a terrible mistake, but a “United India” would probably be at civil war with itself today knowing how the Muzzis are, so who knows. So while that may be a popular feeling, the problem is not that India was partitioned but that Muslims are well Muslims


  3. Speranza
    3 | May 13, 2011 8:46 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    yeah the partition may have been a terrible mistake, but a “United India” would probably be at civil war with itself today knowing how the Muzzis are, so who knows. So while that may be a popular feeling, the problem is not that India was partitioned but that Muslims are well Muslims

    You made some very excellent points. India then would be a country of almost 300 million Muslims and I doubt that it would remain democratic for long, Muslims being Muslims you know.


  4. Philip_Daniel
    4 | May 13, 2011 8:47 am

    @ Philip_Daniel:

    This Abassid-era poem on Byzantine Emperor and Abassid Vassal Nicephorus I and his “violation” of the sulh (treaty) that basically reduced him and his subjects to dhimmi status without even being conquered militarily, probably best expresses the Pakistani attitude toward America, if you merely replace the Byzantine emperor’s name with America and the “Imam’s” name with Pakistan…

    Nicephorus has violated the truce that you [Harun Al-Rashid] granted him,
    but the wheel of fortune will turn against him.
    Nicephorus, if you betray once the Imam is away, it is because of your ignorance and blindness.
    He has paid the jizya and fear of the sword has made him bow his head,
    or death is what he dreads.
    Do you really believe that you will escape your fate?
    What you believe is but a simple illusion.

    No, it is Porkistan which will be unable to prevent its doom if it persists down the road of Islamic Imperialism, the world’s most delusional and dangerous ideology.

    I say no to jizya, no to the dhimma, no to subservience and obsequiousness, no to debasement and humiliation — no more subjugation to and dependence upon Porkistan!


  5. Speranza
    5 | May 13, 2011 8:48 am

    @ Philip_Daniel:
    Wasn’t the Abbassid Caliphate based in Baghdad?


  6. Nevergiveup
    6 | May 13, 2011 8:48 am

    We ( The West) should never have allowed Pakistan to become nuclear. It’s gonna come back to bite us big time


  7. Philip_Daniel
    7 | May 13, 2011 8:49 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    a “United India” would probably be at civil war with itself today knowing how the Muzzis are, so who knows.

    India “belongs” to Islam on account of fath (conquest)!


  8. Philip_Daniel
    8 | May 13, 2011 8:50 am

    Speranza wrote:

    @ Philip_Daniel:
    Wasn’t the Abbassid Caliphate based in Baghdad?

    For the most part, yes.


  9. Macker
    9 | May 13, 2011 8:54 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    yeah the partition may have been a terrible mistake, but a “United India” would probably be at civil war with itself today knowing how the Muzzis are, so who knows. So while that may be a popular feeling, the problem is not that India was partitioned but that Muslims are well Muslims

    There’s no reason why a future Pocky-STAWN could act as a future “buffer” state between India and the rest of Central Asia…
    …after Pocky-STAWN gets nuked, of course.


  10. Philip_Daniel
    10 | May 13, 2011 8:54 am

    Speranza wrote:

    You made some very excellent points. India then would be a country of almost 300 million Muslims and I doubt that it would remain democratic for long, Muslims being Muslims you know.

    See my post here.


  11. Speranza
    11 | May 13, 2011 8:57 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    We ( The West) should never have allowed Pakistan to become nuclear. It’s gonna come back to bite us big time

    The Pakistani Armed Forces are excellent, unfortunately the general population seems to be increasingly insane.


  12. Speranza
    12 | May 13, 2011 9:01 am

    Also Bangladesh (East Bengal) was once part of India then Pakistan (East Pakistan) and now an independent nation (since 1971). Add Bangladesh’s population of 162,220,760 (according to Google statistics) -- the overwhelming of whom are Muslims and then you have a united India population of almost 500 million followers of Mohammad.


  13. Speranza
    13 | May 13, 2011 9:09 am

    Speaking of Pock-ee-stahn Police: 68 killed in bombings in NW Pakistan


  14. Nevergiveup
    14 | May 13, 2011 9:14 am

    Riots in east Jerusalem ahead of Nakba Day
    Friday prayers at Temple Mount end peacefully only to be followed by clashes between police, protestors in Silwan, At-Tur and Bab al-Huta. Security forces pelted with stones near Bethlehem, Ramallah

    Muslims are a problem all over the world and then some


  15. 15 | May 13, 2011 9:20 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    Riots in east Jerusalem ahead of Nakba Day
    Friday prayers at Temple Mount end peacefully only to be followed by clashes between police, protestors in Silwan, At-Tur and Bab al-Huta. Security forces pelted with stones near Bethlehem, Ramallah

    Muslims are a problem all over the world and then some

    Only 1.2 billion of them to kill to solve the problem.


  16. 16 | May 13, 2011 9:21 am

    I think India would be our best ally in the world. I also have seen increasingly that the immigrants from India seem to be some of our most loyal and patriotic citizens, at least the ones I’ve known.


  17. 17 | May 13, 2011 9:24 am

    Strangely enough I also know a Pakistani family and they are surprisingly loyal to the US even considering their “faith”. They have little nice to say about the atttitudes in their country.


  18. 18 | May 13, 2011 9:26 am

    They also were familiar with the area Bin Laden was hiding and said there is no way in hell the government didn’t know. Not only is there an active base right there, that community is made up mostly of retired officers.


  19. 19 | May 13, 2011 9:26 am

    Pakistani government.


  20. 20 | May 13, 2011 9:33 am

    @ Nevergiveup:

    You know Soros and his buddies probably had a hand in that.

    The Popular Uprising!


  21. Nevergiveup
    21 | May 13, 2011 9:34 am

    Japan to Cover Damaged Nuclear Reactors with Giant Tents
    Updated: Friday, 13 May 2011, 8:07 AM EDT
    Published : Friday, 13 May 2011, 8:07 AM EDT

    (Dow Jones) -- Giant polyester covers will soon be placed around the damaged reactor buildings at Japan’s Fukushima nuclear complex to help contain the release of radioactive substances into the atmosphere, the plant operator said Friday.

    Tents?


  22. Nevergiveup
    22 | May 13, 2011 9:35 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Nevergiveup:

    You know Soros and his buddies probably had a hand in that.

    The Popular Uprising! ™

    I doubt it. Just normal Palestinian behavior


  23. Macker
    23 | May 13, 2011 9:40 am

    @ Mars:

    Ah, so Abbottabad is a military target, suitable for destruction….


  24. Speranza
    24 | May 13, 2011 9:40 am

    Mars wrote:

    I think India would be our best ally in the world. I also have seen increasingly that the immigrants from India seem to be some of our most loyal and patriotic citizens, at least the ones I’ve known.

    Indian immigrants are hard working, ambitious, law abiding people. I have no problems with Indian immigrants.


  25. Nevergiveup
    25 | May 13, 2011 9:40 am

    SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): “With regard to the idea of whether you have a right to health care, you have realize what that implies. It’s not an abstraction. I’m a physician. That means you have a right to come to my house and conscript me. It means you believe in slavery.”

    The acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree


  26. Speranza
    26 | May 13, 2011 9:40 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    I doubt it. Just normal Palestinian behavior

    lol. Palis being Palis.


  27. Nevergiveup
    27 | May 13, 2011 9:41 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Mars wrote:

    I think India would be our best ally in the world. I also have seen increasingly that the immigrants from India seem to be some of our most loyal and patriotic citizens, at least the ones I’ve known.

    Indian immigrants are hard working, ambitious, law abiding people. I have no problems with Indian immigrants.

    Except they got a ton of tarter on their teeth


  28. Speranza
    28 | May 13, 2011 9:41 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): “With regard to the idea of whether you have a right to health care, you have realize what that implies. It’s not an abstraction. I’m a physician. That means you have a right to come to my house and conscript me. It means you believe in slavery.”
    The acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree

    Hard core libertarians are one short step away from anarchists.


  29. Macker
    29 | May 13, 2011 9:41 am

    @ Nevergiveup:

    WEIRDDD


  30. Speranza
    30 | May 13, 2011 9:42 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    Except they got a ton of tarter on their teeth

    Having lived in London, don’t get me started on bad teeth Doc.


  31. Guggi
    31 | May 13, 2011 9:45 am

    Interesting that the first governors and presidents of Pakistan were Shia’s (Ismail and 12er Shia) while Shia Muslims in Pakistan today are a persecuted minority.


  32. Guggi
    32 | May 13, 2011 9:46 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    Except they got a ton of tarter on their teeth

    What is tarter ?


  33. Macker
    33 | May 13, 2011 9:50 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): “With regard to the idea of whether you have a right to health care, you have realize what that implies. It’s not an abstraction. I’m a physician. That means you have a right to come to my house and conscript me. It means you believe in slavery.”

    The acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree

    Are you implying, then, that he’s one of these?


  34. 34 | May 13, 2011 9:57 am

    @ Macker:

    It is what it is, or it be what it be…


  35. Speranza
    35 | May 13, 2011 9:57 am

    Guggi wrote:

    Interesting that the first governors and presidents of Pakistan were Shia’s (Ismail and 12er Shia) while Shia Muslims in Pakistan today are a persecuted minority.

    Yes Shia’s regularly get blown up in suicide bombings at Mosques in Pakistan.


  36. Nevergiveup
    36 | May 13, 2011 9:58 am

    Guggi wrote:

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    Except they got a ton of tarter on their teeth

    What is tarter ?

    The hard stuff that collects on your teeth near the gums


  37. Speranza
    37 | May 13, 2011 9:59 am

    Guggi wrote:

    Nevergiveup wrote:
    Except they got a ton of tarter on their teeth
    What is tarter ?

    Tartar is a form of hardened dental plaque.


  38. Speranza
    38 | May 13, 2011 10:00 am

    @ Nevergiveup:
    And tartar sauce is what I like to dip fried shrimp in. Ever go to Randazzo’s on Sheepshead Bay?


  39. Nevergiveup
    39 | May 13, 2011 10:06 am

    Speranza wrote:

    @ Nevergiveup:
    And tartar sauce is what I like to dip fried shrimp in. Ever go to Randazzo’s on Sheepshead Bay?

    I think so, but long time ago


  40. Guggi
    40 | May 13, 2011 10:07 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    The hard stuff that collects on your teeth near the gums

    Ah, Zahnstein.


  41. Nevergiveup
    41 | May 13, 2011 10:09 am

    Guggi wrote:

    Zahnstein

    Yes


  42. Guggi
    42 | May 13, 2011 10:13 am

    I like baked white mushrooms or baked porkini with sauce tartar.


  43. Speranza
    43 | May 13, 2011 10:21 am

    Guggi wrote:

    I like baked white mushrooms or baked porkini with sauce tartar.

    If I ever become Dictator, mushrooms will be banned.


  44. Speranza
    44 | May 13, 2011 10:21 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    @ Nevergiveup:
    And tartar sauce is what I like to dip fried shrimp in. Ever go to Randazzo’s on Sheepshead Bay?

    I think so, but long time ago

    It is on Emmons Avenue.


  45. Speranza
    45 | May 13, 2011 10:29 am

    Christie Responds to Evolution Question: ‘That’s None Of Your Business’ Charles Johnson outraged!


  46. Speranza
    46 | May 13, 2011 10:30 am

    Thread has gone dead.


  47. Nevergiveup
    47 | May 13, 2011 10:35 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Christie Responds to Evolution Question: ‘That’s None Of Your Business’ Charles Johnson outraged!

    great answer


  48. citizen_q
    48 | May 13, 2011 10:41 am

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    Guggi wrote:
    Nevergiveup wrote:
    Except they got a ton of tarter on their teeth
    What is tarter ?

    The hard stuff that collects on your teeth near the gums

    I thought it was the stuff I put on my fish sticks?


  49. citizen_q
    49 | May 13, 2011 10:45 am

    @ Speranza:
    GMTA!

    Nevergiveup wrote:

    Riots in east Jerusalem ahead of Nakba Day
    Friday prayers at Temple Mount end peacefully only to be followed by clashes between police, protestors in Silwan, At-Tur and Bab al-Huta. Security forces pelted with stones near Bethlehem, Ramallah

    Muslims are a problem all over the world and then some

    They sure are. As Winston Churchill noted there are a few individuals with good qualities, but en mass a problem for everyone including themselves. We need a campaign to make freedom from islam a human right.


  50. citizen_q
    50 | May 13, 2011 10:48 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Guggi wrote:
    I like baked white mushrooms or baked porkini with sauce tartar.

    If I ever become Dictator, mushrooms will be banned.

    Dictator? Is that a Halloween costume where you are naked except for a potato on your Johnson?

    / needed?


  51. Guggi
    51 | May 13, 2011 10:49 am

    The deficit spending storm we cannot avoid

    It may have surprised some people when Standard & Poor’s warned last month that the United States could lose its coveted status as the world’s most secure economy if lawmakers don’t rein in the nation’s unsustainable debt. I have been sounding a similar alarm for almost five years, trying to get the attention of Congress and past and present administrations that America cannot continue on its debt and deficit track (currently more than $14 trillion of debt, $62 trillion-plus in unfunded liabilities and over $1 trillion in annual deficits projected for years to come).

    Snip


  52. Guggi
    52 | May 13, 2011 10:54 am

    A European revolutionary on the Arab Spring

    Twenty years ago Toomas Hendrik Ilves was a young research analyst working for Radio Free Europe in Munich, part of a monkish cadre that pored over Soviet-bloc newspapers and radio transcripts in search of cracks in a totalitarian order that most people regarded as immutable.

    Now, as president of Estonia — then a Soviet republic, now a successful democracy — he watches as another wave of revolution explodes another long-frozen political order in the Middle East. Naturally, he has some lessons from his experience, the first of which might be summed up as: Not everyone makes it to freedom.

    “In ’89 to ’91 we thought we saw democracy spreading across an entire region,” Ilves told me in a conversation in his office in Tallinn. “With 20 years’ hindsight, we see that it’s not quite so easy.” Of the East Bloc population served by RFE and Radio Liberty before 1989, just 25 percent now live in countries rated as free, Ilves says. The rest have fallen back under some form of authoritarianism.

    Will the Middle East make it to 25 percent in 20 years? That could depend, says Ilves, on whether this generation of revolutionaries makes good decisions about how to build democratic institutions and a free economy — and whether the West is supportive or discouraging. “It turns out that some ways of doing this work much better than others,” he says. “We have to look at what we did right.”

    Snip


  53. 54 | May 13, 2011 11:05 am

    @ Speranza:

    Going to do a DOD thread on that.


  54. Speranza
    55 | May 13, 2011 11:18 am

    citizen_q wrote:

    Dictator? Is that a Halloween costume where you are naked except for a potato on your Johnson?

    I am mushroomphobic. Vile fungus!


  55. citizen_q
    56 | May 13, 2011 11:27 am

    @ Speranza:
    The fungus will get you sooner or later. Relax, don’t worry, be happy!


  56. Bumr50
    57 | May 13, 2011 11:29 am

    IT GETS BETTER!

    (unless you’re a Republican. Then you’re dogsh*t that deserves everything that you get)

    The presence of Dan Savage and Kathy Griffin completely erases any “positive message” that could be gleaned from this.

    It’s getting painful to use Google.


  57. Speranza
    58 | May 13, 2011 11:45 am

    citizen_q wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    The fungus will get you sooner or later. Relax, don’t worry, be happy!

    What is the plural of fungus, fungi?


  58. yenta-fada
    59 | May 13, 2011 2:53 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    A European revolutionary on the Arab Spring
    Twenty years ago Toomas Hendrik Ilves was a young research analyst working for Radio Free Europe in Munich, part of a monkish cadre that pored over Soviet-bloc newspapers and radio transcripts in search of cracks in a totalitarian order that most people regarded as immutable.
    Now, as president of Estonia — then a Soviet republic, now a successful democracy — he watches as another wave of revolution explodes another long-frozen political order in the Middle East. Naturally, he has some lessons from his experience, the first of which might be summed up as: Not everyone makes it to freedom.
    “In ’89 to ’91 we thought we saw democracy spreading across an entire region,” Ilves told me in a conversation in his office in Tallinn. “With 20 years’ hindsight, we see that it’s not quite so easy.” Of the East Bloc population served by RFE and Radio Liberty before 1989, just 25 percent now live in countries rated as free, Ilves says. The rest have fallen back under some form of authoritarianism.
    Will the Middle East make it to 25 percent in 20 years? That could depend, says Ilves, on whether this generation of revolutionaries makes good decisions about how to build democratic institutions and a free economy — and whether the West is supportive or discouraging. “It turns out that some ways of doing this work much better than others,” he says. “We have to look at what we did right.”
    Snip

    My husband is Estonian. His family had to leave under the Nazis. Then the Estos had to be overrun by Russians. They are, at the core, hardworking, highly educated, and have no clue about the nature of Islam. Notice that they don’t have a Muslim ‘problem’ because they have had to watch Russia try to assimilate them and don’t wish to repeat the experience. Islam is a virus. To expect anything else from the masses of Muslims is ridiculous. The less observant Muslims are stuck with remaining low profile because otherwise they will be overwhelmed by the Barbaric form of Islam themselves. Sadly, it cuts people off from their own families a lot of the time.


  59. yenta-fada
    60 | May 13, 2011 2:55 pm

    If you check, good post Speranza. :-) p.s. The Bangladeshis are fine with Sharia IMHO. They don’t take kindly to ‘democratic’ free speech in their own country officially.


  60. 61 | May 14, 2011 8:35 am

    Wrote a similar post over at The Diplomad
    You might enjoy it.


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