This is a long article but well worth reading. I always maintained that we would have been better off if President Obama had done nothing at all and let the natural genius of the capitalist system soar itself out. By now the unemployment rate would probably have been no more than 7% (still a bit too high for my blood), and we would have probably been out of the recession by the Spring of 2010. I find it interesting his speculation that McCain had he won, would have proposed some sort of stimulus as well. Obama’s doubling down with his retitled stimulus American Jobs Act will prolong the severe recession long into next year and might be his fatal poison for November 2012.
by James Pethokoukis
What if the president of the United States hadn’t proposed an $800 billion stimulus plan back in 2009—but one twice as large? That is the question haunting the intellectual left, led by the economist and columnist Paul Krugman, especially since the economy is mired in what might charitably be considered the doldrums. It slowed to a near-total halt in the first quarter of 2011 with a growth rate of 0.4 percent before climbing to a comatose 1.3 percent rate in the second.
For Krugman’s opposite numbers, the question is the reverse: Might the U.S. economy actually be stronger today if Uncle Sam had done nothing and just let the business cycle play out? And what might have been different had John McCain been elected the 44th president instead of Barack Obama? Would he have acted differently? Would the result have been different?
The what-if debate is not merely an intellectual exercise. It will have some effect on American policy going forward. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act was Barack Obama’s signature achievement in dealing with the most worrisome set of economic conditions since the Great Depression. It was how Obama, to use a pair of his now seemingly abandoned metaphors, sought to drag the economy out of the ditch while the Republicans were standing around sipping Slurpees.
[...]
In short: without Obamanomics, it would have been worse. Much worse. You’re welcome, America. Four more years, please.
But Republicans have a competing argument. Instead of saving us from a Greater Depression, the Obama stimulus (together with his health-care plan and financial reforms) was a two-year waste of precious time and money that may actually have impeded economic growth. The evidence for their proposition comes in part from the White House itself; its own economists predicted the stimulus would prevent the unemployment rate from hitting 8 percent. But the rate actually rose as high as 10.1 percent, has settled in above 9 percent now, and even Obama’s own team currently hopes for a rate of, at best, 8.25 percent by the end of 2012—if nothing else goes wrong.
To be sure, the economic disaster that led to the longest recession the United States has ever suffered was something Obama inherited, but there is no question everyone (on all sides of the aisle) believed that natural cyclical forces would have led to recovery long before now. Natural cyclical forces were not given a chance to work themselves out. Far from it. In addition, Republicans can argue that regulatory uncertainty and fear over the rising national debt—debt that Obama’s Recovery Act helped intensify—have chilled American business.
In short: Obama blew it. That accounts for the slogan Wall Street Journal columnist Peggy Noonan proposed for the GOP going into 2012: “He made it worse.”
Did he? Who’s right? Let us examine several potential policy paths not traveled and speculate how the economy might look different if they had been.
_____________
What if the stimulus had been larger?
More Americans think the stimulus hurt the economy than helped, just as they think—in percentages that look increasingly like an oncologist’s fatal diagnosis—the economy is on the wrong track. So it should come as no surprise that Obama would rather talk about “winning the future” than make reference to a nearly trillion-dollar plan the public seems to think lost the present. In his State of the Union address earlier this year, Obama obliquely referred to “steps we’ve taken over the last two years [that have] broken the back of this recession,” before immediately pivoting to Sputnik and bullet trains. The president even recently joked at a meeting of his jobs council that “shovel-ready was not as shovel-ready as we expected.”
You will not find any White House policymaker, either current or former, who thinks the stimulus was fundamentally flawed. The only error Obama economists such as Larry Summers or Christina Romer—or Obama himself—will concede is that the stimulus should have been bigger than the dollar figure ($860 billion) that the political reality of 2009 would allow. But would more spending and larger temporary tax cuts have produced a significantly different result?
Before trying to figure that out, we must understand the actual impact of the Recovery Act. We cannot determine that through the White House’s models, which presume that a dollar of government spending produces more than a dollar of economic output—a presumption that is highly controversial, to say the least. But it’s useful for the White House, because even if the economy had completely collapsed after the stimulus kicked in, the White House could still have released report after report showing that GDP and job growth would have been even worse without the Recovery Act.
[...]
Some economists on the left acknowledge the truth of Taylor’s analysis. “Taylor actually has a pretty good point: It’s far from clear that the ARRA actually led to much of a rise in government spending, while the tax cuts that made up much of the stimulus were probably largely saved,” Paul Krugman has written. But Krugman and others of his ilk then use Taylor’s analysis to argue that this proves the stimulus should have been larger, with far more of the money spent on government purchases and infrastructure and far less on temporary tax cuts.
Taylor is skeptical of such reasoning. He questions whether such massive spending could happen quickly or efficiently. Summers, who ran Obama’s National Economic Council, harbors such doubts, too. As he told the Washington Post: “So-called shovel-ready projects often were not in fact ready to go. Almost everyone close to the process feels that Joe Biden and his team did a very good job of moving the stimulus money through the system, and as a consequence, money moved more or less on the schedule we projected in 2009. They would be the first to say that it would not have been possible to move vastly more money into quick trigger infrastructure projects.”
So cranking up the stimulus machine to 11 would have been difficult, if not impossible. But that is not the only argument to be made against the effectiveness of the stimulus. We also know that high levels of government spending crowd out private consumption. And as we learned from the permanent-income hypothesis that won Milton Friedman his Nobel Prize, some Americans realize all the massive deficit-financed spending of today will ultimately require raising their taxes tomorrow. So short-term changes in income tend to have little impact on how people spend. “New Keynesian” models, like one used by the European Central Bank, sought to incorporate such factors and predicted that the Obama stimulus would have just a fraction of the impact estimated by Romer and other White House economists. Instead of creating 3 million jobs, perhaps the actual total was 600,000, or about $1 million a job (assuming approximately 80 percent of the stimulus has been distributed.) That would mean the job growth that has occurred has been mostly a result of the natural recovery of the economy.
[...]
_____________
What if the economy had been left alone?
The 2009 Obama stimulus wasn’t the only effort to juice the economy. There was Cash for Clunkers in the summer of that year, offering a one-time subsidy for turning in an old car and buying a new one. Democrats and Republicans agreed on a round of temporary tax cuts and extended jobless benefits in December 2010. And don’t forget, President George W. Bush got his own mini-stimulus passed back in 2008. All that stimuli, not counting interest expense on the borrowed money, amounted to well over $1 trillion (some say as high as $2 trillion) in economic steroid injections.
Of course, it would have been politically difficult for Obama and Bush to sit on their hands, even though the data certainly suggests the economy might be not a whit worse off if they had. But what if a libertarian politician like Ron Paul had been sworn in as 44th president? Imagine his first State of the Union address, the one in which he tells the American public that Washington won’t be coming to their rescue and that the moribund economy will, in time, bloom again and grow strong all on its own:
My fellow Americans, I know times are tough and almost certainly about to get tougher. Yet isn’t it odd how we all welcome the inevitable changing seasons of nature, but we’re upset by the seasons of our economy? You see, in the garden of our economy, growth has its seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have fall and winter. And then we get spring and summer again. As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden. So be patient. God bless America.
Those were the words, more or less, of Chance, the simpleton gardener who becomes a presidential adviser in the 1979 political satire, Being There. But in fact, President Warren Harding pretty much adopted that organic approach during the mini-depression of 1920–21. That nasty little downturn has been blamed on a variety of culprits, including rapid demobilization after World War I and overly tight monetary policy by the nascent Federal Reserve. Unemployment surged to nearly 12 percent as the economy shrank by about 3 percent.
Rather than enact a major spending program, Harding responded by slashing government outlays by a fifth during 1921 and 1922, which is just what he had told voters he would do during the 1920 campaign. At the Republican convention that year, he promised to “strike at government borrowing…[and] attack the high cost of government with every energy and facility which attend Republican capacity.”
[...]
_____________
What if it had all been tax cuts?
Ron Paul could never have become president. John McCain could have. And while McCain has a reputation as a debt hawk, there’s little doubt he would have taken an active approach to rescuing the sinking economy, even it if would have greatly increased the deficit. He almost certainly would have implemented some sort of stimulus.
The conservative economist Martin Feldstein, for instance, suggested his own version of the Obama spending plan. Instead of trying to prop up spendthrift state governments and boosting “clean energy” investment, Feldstein would have directed dollars at restocking depleted U.S. military hardware after five years of fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. And whereas shovel-ready infrastructure projects turned out to be more White House spin than substance, “the military can increase its level of procurement very rapidly,” Feldstein said back in 2009.
[...]
But tax cuts work best when they are put in place as long-term measures, not temporary fixes of the sort Obama preferred. So for maximum impact back in 2009, any payroll tax cuts would have needed to be permanent. And replacement revenue sources to fund Social Security and Medicare would have been necessary pretty quickly. And so we would have found ourselves in exactly the same kind of debt crisis that consumed Washington throughout the past summer.
_____________
These what-ifs suggest a few things. First, that the Obama stimulus does not deserve credit for what little economic growth we’ve seen. Second, that while a more libertarian approach to the crisis might have had a better result, there was no way such an approach would or could have be enacted. Finally, the preferred Republican solution—a temporary payroll tax cut—might have been beneficial in the short term and wildly problematic in the long term.
Did Obama make it worse? It is certainly the case that he only deepened a long-term trend that threatens American prosperity more than any other. The events of 2008–2009 exposed a truth about the U.S. economy from which we had shielded ourselves: economic growth has been slowing in a worrisome way throughout the decade. The nation’s GDP has averaged 3.3 percent annual growth for the past half century. But from 2001 to 2007—before the recession hit—it averaged only 2.6 percent. Going forward, growth might be even slower due to the aftermath of the financial crisis and the aging of the population. The Congressional Budget Office, for instance, pegs long-term growth at just 2 percent or so.
[...]
We’re stuck for now with an anemic and debt-laden economy that may muddle along for years. But it didn’t have to be this way. The one thing we can all say for certain is that we could have made it better.
Read the rest: Did Obama make it worse?
Tags: James Pethokoukis, John McCain
Well let me be the first to comment on my own thread. Better if Obama had done nothing then to have done what he eventually did.
I just hope there weren’t conservatives back in the 30′s telegraphing each other things like that about FDR…
And if Luap Nor were 44…the Mohammedans would have had a field day with him!
@ Bumr50:
What I wrote in my introduction is no secret. Unemployment stays around 9% and we have a decent candidate then he (Obama) is in a heap of trouble. You don’t think the Democratic strategists don’t know that? Carvile today said it is time (for the Democrats) to start panicking. Obama by the way is no FDR.
Actually, a CORPORATE tax cut, plus massive deregulation, would have triggered an economic boom that would, on the average, have more than cancelled out the effects of the housing collapse.
Yes, the new jobs would have favored the States, such as Texas and moat of the Southeast, that are more business-friendly, at the expense of New York, Illinois, and the West Coast, that are more heavily regulated and where the housing bubble was much worse.
Testing new Avatar….
@ Macker:
Fail.
Slow night.
@ Bumr50:
What, you don’t see it?
Speranza wrote:
People are still on the last thread.
@ Macker:
Works for me. When’s the next call-in show ?
@ Macker:
Ohh.
Is that an iPad?
Obama stuck in Keynesian Twilight Zone.
Macker wrote:
I still see Elwood Blues
The Osprey wrote:
Ok, now I got it, it’s Elwood Blues in front of an iPad. Or is that Chuck’s restaurant menu?
@ The Osprey:
It might as well be. That iPad has The
New YorkSaddam Times on it!@ yenta-fada:
He’s a Keneysian! From South America!
@ The Osprey:
What’s up with that Hitler mickey mouse clown.
@ 1389AD:
GE paid no taxes last year. I’ve read (no linky) that some large multi-nationals who take their U.S. profits offshore are willing to bring the money back to the U.S. if their taxes are cut to 5% maximum.
As for “stimulus” programs, they have proven ineffective. They don’t even kick the can down the road successfully anymore. The U.S. dollar is staying high because of the crisis in European banking. I don’t see any planning in this Central Planning administration. In fact, I don’t even see the APPEARANCE of planning. That little ‘debt ceiling’ stunt was much ado about nothing. Now all the pundits are talking about is how to reduce partisan bickering as though that was actually the cause of the trillions of dollars in debt on the books. The debt continues as assets are monetized. Throwing debt into agencies like Fannie and Freddie puts it on the tapped out tax-payer to turn the ship of state. It looks to me like everyone is protecting their little fiefdom and the hell with any leadership. *sulk*
@ 1389AD:
Debt chokes growth.
Rodan wrote:
He’s a Hitler Mouse, but he’s not judgmental! ROFLMAO!
I think these people are prime examples of Chucky’s current posters. Hitler Mice, Furries, potheads, deranged lezbos.
Rodan wrote:
Oh yeah. That’s what I was trying to say in those 4 paragraphs! lol
making chipotle peppers…..they are looking great
mmmmmmmmmm
@ The Osprey:
All of whom go apeshit at the sight of the TN Boerestaat Flag! Did I spell that right?
Macker wrote:
Ja!
Rocky Top, sal jy altyd wees,
Home sweet home vir my.
Goeie voorgestel Rocky Top,
Rocky Top Tennessee!
Imagine, for a moment, that O–bag’s intent was NEVER to fix the economy… Imagine, also, that the crap Solyndra pulled is nothing new under the Sun (pardon the bad pun). Russian “insta-billionaires” have been pulling this same stunt since early 1990s. Get a government loan, declare bankruptcy, screw over all your employees and investors, dip out to a comfy foreign country to enjoy your newly-acquired wealth without having worked or produced anything.
@ The Osprey:
I bet they are LGfers.
Rodan wrote:
Wasn’t “JamesFirecat” at that event with some sign about LGF?
@ The Osprey:
@ PrincessNatasha:
I agree with you. I think there’s something fishy here. Personally I am convince these loans and bankruptcies are a cover to steal money.
@ The Osprey:
Yes i believe so!
@ Rodan:
the FBI raids were a cover to hide the proof
@ Macker:
The other day, some of Johnson’s followers were praising Ron Paul during the debate. Chuck said nothing.
@ rain of lead:
I agree!
This is typical 3rd World style corruption. That money is in the Caymans.
@ yenta-fada:
It’s an economic fact. Why more people don’t get it.
A good Ancient Aliens on History Channel.
Rodan wrote:
I KNOW that’s what it is. It has been done before, just ask some of the Russian billionaires living overseas… Their only honest capitalist is in prison!!
Rodan wrote:
Ron Paul!
rain of lead wrote:
Indeed. If Feebs are involved, it is suspect… And it has NOTHING to do with me liking CIA much better
Rodan wrote:
Hey brother, you got a few minutes? Call my Blackberry, I have a question and an update…
@ rain of lead:
I’ve got to find a recording of someone singing it in Afrikaans or Flemish! Just for Chucky!
Speranza wrote:
Oh contrere, mi amigo- Failed Dimocratic Retread
did this get posted yet?
Obamas 12 step program
1. Admitted I was powerless over nothing, that I could manage the country perfectly.
2. Came to believe that there was no power greater than myself and the rest of the world was insane.
3. Made a decision to have Americans turn their wills and their lives over to my care even though they could not understand me at all.
4. Made a searching and fearless inventory of everyone I knew.
5. Admitted to the world the exact nature of everyone else’s wrongs.
6. Was entirely ready to make others give me the respect I rightfully deserved.
7. Demanded that others do my will because I am always right.
8. Made a list of all persons who had harmed me and became willing to go to any lengths to get even with them.
9. Got direct revenge on such people wherever possible except when to do so would cost me a jail sentence.
10. Continued to take inventory of others and when they were wrong promptly and repeatedly told them about it.
11. Sought through endless speeches to improve my relations with others asking only that they do things my way.
12. Having had a complete physical, emotional, and spiritual breakdown as a result of these 12 steps, I blamed it on others and tried to get sympathy and pity in all my affairs
mawskrat wrote:
I saw some “Sweet Baby Ray’s Chipotle-Raspberry BBQ Sauce” at Wal-Mart and thought that’s an interesting combo. I’m not a big BBQ sauce fan, since I prefer rubbing my meat
but I bought a bottle, it was like $1.50, and the stuff is unbelievably good!
@ The Osprey:
hahahaha
will rocky top in hebrew do
@ Bob in Breckenridge:
sweet baby rays anything is really good
@ rain of lead:
That will have to do for now. LOL.
@ PrincessNatasha:
Hey work on that guest post and email it when done. Let us know when to post it!
@ Bob in Breckenridge:
I’m smoking and drying lots of peppers
in the next few days
@ mawskrat:
Can’t say I’ve ever smoked a pepper. Hmm… easy to light?
~:)
@ m:
Good evening!
I like White Pepper!
Tingles: Republicans Are Ignorant And Hate Intellectuals…
Up yourrrrn, Chrissy.
@ Rodan:
What the hell is white pepper? Hey, did you know in Canada you can get milk in a bag?!
@ m:
Like he’s an intellectual!
Smoke me a kipper, I’ll be back for breakfast.
@ m:
I’ve seen Milk in a bag in Dominican Republic and colombia. I guess they coped The Canadians.
@ Rodan:
For real. Anyone that can talk the shit he does, I mean come on. Dude has hate oozing from his pores!
mawskrat wrote:
/Smoking what?
@ Bob in Breckenridge:
Dried peppers apparently! lol
m wrote:
The Difference Between Black & White Pepper
http://www.ochef.com/569.htm
@ rain of lead:
Well whadaya know.
m wrote:
mmm likes me some chipolte peppers
rain of lead wrote:
First time I tried it. But it was goooood!
rain of lead wrote:
Axe Jesse Jackson.
m wrote:
And when I lived in SE MI back in the late 90s/early 00s, I bought quite a few bags of the stuff. Their milk is creamier than ours, eh!
night folks….gotta
do more peppers in the morning
[...] What might have been without the 2009 stimulus This is a long article but well worth reading. I always maintained that we would have been better off if President Obama had done nothing at all and let the natural genius of the capitalist system soar itself out. By now the unemployment rate would probably have been no more than 7% (still a bit too high for my blood), and we would have probably been out of the recession by the Spring of 2010. [...]