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Postcard from Londonistan

by Speranza ( 114 Comments › )
Filed under British Islamic Jihadists, Islam, Political Correctness, Progressives, UK at January 4th, 2012 - 8:30 am

Mr. Shapiro’s experiences in Londonistan mirrors my own the last three  times I was  there (2002, 2003 and 2005). I never tire of walking the streets and exploring the sights and neighborhoods of London and I know interesting historical sites that many Londoners are oblivious of.  However, I am very sad to see a great nation lose its self confidence (heaven forbid Charles – not Charles Johnson lol- ever becomes King)  and I am afraid that the same thing will happen here after another four years of Barack Obama. As much as we need another leader with the wisdom and courage of Ronald W. Reagan, the U.K. desperately needs another Iron Lady (Margaret Thatcher).

by Ben Shapiro

I’ve been spending my Christmas vacation with my wife in Rome and London. We arrived in London on Christmas Eve.  It’s truly an amazing city – everywhere you look, there’s history, from the Tower of London to the Churchill Museum.  But everywhere you look, there is a more ominous presence: Islam.

[.......]

That failure of integration is clear from the get-go.  There are official signs translated into Arabic for those who do not wish to speak or read English.  The chatter of Islamic languages is as prevalent as the mother tongue. The hijab is omnipresent.

Perhaps all this might be a charming byproduct of multiculturalism if it weren’t for the fact that so much of the Islamic population of Great Britain is radicalized.  That radicalization is not difficult to spot.

With all the major official sites closed the day after Christmas, my wife and I headed over to Madame Tussaud’s to take in the famed tourist trap.  As we strolled the halls filled with famous cultural figures, most from the 20th century, we came across the wax doll for Albert Einstein.  And there, crowded around the figure, stood five young Muslims – two male, three female.  While other guests stood next to the model and smiled, or put an arm around it, these Muslim worthies stood next to the wax model – and put their hands around its throat, simulating strangling it.  At first, I couldn’t believe what I was watching – did Einstein do something to offend these people? – but then it dawned on me that they were doing this because Einstein was a Jew.  In fact, Einstein was the only prominent Jew in Tussaud’s.  And who wouldn’t want to strangle a prominent Jew, after all?

That suspicion was confirmed a few minutes later when we reached the wax statue of Adolf Hitler.  Britons and Americans tried to choke the figure, or pointed their fingers at it in imaginary guns, or yelled at it.  These young Muslims happily stood next to it, and took smiling photographs with it as though they’d stumbled upon a friendly uncle. Which, in a way, they had.

And, of course, nobody said anything to these delightfully diverse young people. Mustn’t show evidence of that old, imperialist spirit, you know.

[...]

But that Britishness is buried rather deep.  The day after Christmas in the United Kingdom is Boxing Day, a sort of Black Friday in this country.  It’s a nightmare to navigate the crowded streets, and the shops are packed solid.

It was precisely this day that the British Tube employees – workers of the British subway system – chose to strike for 24 hours.  This meant that everyone was now obliged to use taxis, which were charging double rates, or take a bus – and the traffic was snarled more horribly than Matthew Pocket’s hair.  What were these employees striking for?  Triple pay on holidays – and an offset day to make up for having to work on Boxing Day.  They were already slated to make double pay.

In any rational society, the British government would fire these ne’er-do-wells forthwith and hire scabs to replace them.  But Britain’s post-WWII bargain with the devil has been the same as the rest of the West’s: go Marxist and remove your imperial aggression by doing so.  Capitalism, in the Marxist view, leads to imperialism; breed the capitalism out, and so too will the imperialism fade into history.  And so Britain has castrated itself, both economically and socially.

But deep in the British soul, there stirs the echo of heroism: the echo of Churchill and Henry V, the echo of Elizabeth I and Cromwell. As time passes, that echo will grow ever louder.  The question is whether the echo will restore Britain’s fortitude before it descends into a self-imposed dark night of final decline.

Read the rest: Postcard from Islamic London

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114 Responses to “Postcard from Londonistan”
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  1. mawskrat
    1 | January 4, 2012 8:38 am

    morning all….gonna be a crappy day
    my furnace went out last night.
    the HVAC guy is here and the meter is
    running>LOL

    it’s 50 degrees in the house


  2. 2 | January 4, 2012 8:42 am

    @ mawskrat:

    See, I knew you’d come around to my way of thinking :evil:


  3. 3 | January 4, 2012 8:45 am

    Perhaps all this might be a charming byproduct of multiculturalism if it weren’t for the fact that so much of the Islamic population of Great Britain is radicalized. That radicalization is not difficult to spot.

    They aren’t radicalized. That is Islam. The Religion of Submission brooks no rivals. Britain is in dire straits, and I fear that their present is our future if we don;t make a stand against it now.


  4. 4 | January 4, 2012 8:46 am

    morning all….gonna be a crappy day

    There’s a first…


  5. citizen_q
    5 | January 4, 2012 8:57 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    They aren’t radicalized. That is Islam.

    This.

    As the muzzies gain strength, the mask starts to fall.

    The first indicator is the failure to integrate. Why even be there if the want to create mirrors of the hell holes they left?


  6. 6 | January 4, 2012 8:58 am

    Good article, right up to the point that he mentions Cromwell in the same sentence as Churchill in exampling heroism. Cromwell committed no less than genocide on the Irish people. As to the English, he overthrew the Crown and was disinterred and hanged as a traitor after his death.


  7. 7 | January 4, 2012 8:58 am

    citizen_q wrote:

    Why even be there if the want to create mirrors of the hell holes they left?

    They are Imperial Colonizers. They are there to spread Shari’ia. That is the main purpose of Islam and Muslims in the world. They all believe that to one degree or other. It is as central a tenet to Islam as the Divinity of Christ is to Christianity.


  8. mawskrat
    8 | January 4, 2012 9:00 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    morning all….gonna be a crappy day
    There’s a first…

    it’s looking better though. my neighbor runs a
    HVAC supply house so he sent one of his best accounts
    to my house. no waiting for service here knowing some
    one all ways helps.

    LOL the mother board went out on the furnace
    and he is only gonna charge me 175.00 to fix it.
    the board cost a 100.00 his cost. he said he was doing me
    a favour because of my neighbor sells alot of hvac supplies to
    him. I told him favours don’t pay the bills and he laughed.
    told me not to worry about it


  9. citizen_q
    9 | January 4, 2012 9:02 am

    However, I am very sad to see a great nation lose its self confidence (heaven forbid Charles – not Charles Johnson lol- ever becomes King) and I am afraid that the same thing will happen here after another four years of Barack Obama

    On a possibly related note:
    Probe reveals feds pressuring agents to rush immigrant visas – even if fraud is feared

    Higher-ups within U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services are pressuring rank-and-file officers to rubber-stamp immigrants’ visa applications, sometimes against the officers’ will, according to a Homeland Security report and internal documents exclusively obtained by The Daily.

    A 40-page report, drafted by the Office of Inspector General in September but not publicly released, details the immense pressure immigration service officers are under to approve visa applications quickly, sometimes while overlooking concerns about fraud, eligibility or security.

    One-quarter of the 254 officers surveyed said they have been pressured to approve questionable cases, sometimes “against their will.”

    Unfortunately, the demographics of the questionable case is not reported.


  10. African Moondog
    10 | January 4, 2012 9:05 am

    A friend of mine was telling me of two events on a recent European trip he took with his fiance. In Brussels they were roundly abused for being “immoral” by a group of “Morrocan” youths while they were in a small restaurant. Apparantly it had something to do with a man being seen with a woman in public.

    In London they were in a pub when an archetypal cockney, gold chains and all, looked at them after they had described themselves as being Ex pat British and told them, “Yer not bluedee British, yer bluedee English and be proud of it!”

    I suppose one of the unforseen consequences of the Multi-Culti project is that the locals get tired of being told that the religions and cultures of recent arrivals are are more worthy than their own and local Nationalisms once again rear their heads.


  11. 11 | January 4, 2012 9:07 am

    @ African Moondog:

    Hence, The EDL.


  12. citizen_q
    12 | January 4, 2012 9:08 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    I’d say we are on the same page.


  13. 13 | January 4, 2012 9:14 am

    Macker wrote:

    @ African Moondog:

    Hence, The EDL.

    The only thing that gives me hope is that there’s an internal fortitude and pride in the English. Alas, it’s been so well hidden under layers of multiculti that some believe it gone entirely.


  14. Speranza
    14 | January 4, 2012 9:19 am

    Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes wrote:

    As to the English, he (Oliver Cromwell) overthrew the Crown and was disinterred and hanged as a traitor after his death.

    That was by Charles II who took revenge on the bodies of the regicides. There is a statue of Cromwell outside the House of Commons so today’s opinions of him in Britain are mixed. The same statue is on Whithehall as is a statue of Charles I at Trafalgar Square.


  15. 15 | January 4, 2012 9:23 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes wrote:

    As to the English, he (Oliver Cromwell) overthrew the Crown and was disinterred and hanged as a traitor after his death.

    That was by Charles II who took revenge on the bodies of the regicides. There is a statue of Cromwell outside the House of Commons so today’s opinions of him in Britain are mixed. The same statue is on Whithehall as is a statue of Charles I at Trafalgar Square.

    Well, there’s no mixed opinions in Ireland.


  16. African Moondog
    16 | January 4, 2012 9:26 am

    @ Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes:

    As a person of Irish ancestry I would have to agree with you. On the flip side Cromwell became the first European leader who lifted the restrictions on the Jews. The English did indeed disinter and hang his body but they never wentback to the system that existed before. Now theMonarch would always have to take Parliament into consideration.


  17. Speranza
    17 | January 4, 2012 9:29 am

    There are no go areas throughout British cities where women, openly gays, Jews etc. take their life in their hands.


  18. Speranza
    18 | January 4, 2012 9:29 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes wrote:
    Well, there’s no mixed opinions in Ireland.

    Yes I know but I was referring to Britain. When the statue of Cromewll went up in the 19th century Queen Victoria was not amused. there is a statue of Richard I (the Lionheart) in front of parliament and he spent only 6 months of his 10 yer reign actually in England.


  19. Speranza
    19 | January 4, 2012 9:34 am

    African Moondog wrote:

    @ Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes:
    As a person of Irish ancestry I would have to agree with you. On the flip side Cromwell became the first European leader who lifted the restrictions on the Jews. The English did indeed disinter and hang his body but they never wentback to the system that existed before. Now theMonarch would always have to take Parliament into consideration.

    Oliver Cromwell’s legacy for Britain was a mixed bag. The Commonwealth (as his rule was called after Charles I’s execution until the Restoration of Charles II) was a particularly dreary time in British history. theaters were closed down, great works of art sold for a pittance (many wound up in the Louvre and the Prado), stained glass windows smashed, etc. However when the Monarchy was restored it was a much reduced monarchy and it had to work closer with parliament. Cromwell was a far more impressive military leader then he was a political leader.


  20. 20 | January 4, 2012 9:35 am

    @ Speranza:

    There are no mixed opinions on Cromwell in Catholic countries. He was a genocidal scumbag and a precursor to Hitler, Stalin and Mao.


  21. African Moondog
    21 | January 4, 2012 9:36 am

    Speranza wrote:

    There are no go areas throughout British cities where women, openly gays, Jews etc. take their life in their hands.

    It was interesting that in the looting spree that seemingly swept Britain last year there were some cities such as Newcastle on Tyne which remained unaffected. Perhaps it was just a coincidence that these cities also lacked the no go areas you reffered to.


  22. 22 | January 4, 2012 9:37 am

    @ African Moondog:

    Letting in Jews doesn’t make up for Cromwell’s genocide of Irish Catholics. Hitler liking Dogs doesn’t make up for the Holocaust.

    Cromwell is not anyone who should be praised.

    A Genocidal mad man is a genocidal mad man.


  23. Speranza
    23 | January 4, 2012 9:38 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    There are no mixed opinions on Cromwell in Catholic countries. He was a genocidal scumbag and a precursor to Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

    I was referring to Britain.
    Some say the same thing about the conquistadors in Peru. It depends on whose ox was gored. Others say the same thing about Phillip II in the Netherlands where they feel the very same thing about the Duke of Alva that you feel about Cromwell.
    Those were bloody days and mercy was an unheard of quality.


  24. 24 | January 4, 2012 9:39 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ African Moondog:

    Letting in Jews doesn’t make up for Cromwell’s genocide of Irish Catholics. Hitler liking Dogs doesn’t make up for the Holocaust.

    Cromwell is not anyone who should be praised.

    A Genocidal mad man is a genocidal mad man.

    Hear! Hear!


  25. Speranza
    25 | January 4, 2012 9:39 am

    African Moondog wrote:

    It was interesting that in the looting spree that seemingly swept Britain last year there were some cities such as Newcastle on Tyne which remained unaffected. Perhaps it was just a coincidence that these cities also lacked the no go areas you reffered to.

    A precursor to the Occupy Wall Street events.


  26. African Moondog
    26 | January 4, 2012 9:41 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    There are no mixed opinions on Cromwell in Catholic countries. He was a genocidal scumbag and a precursor to Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

    Not wishing to defend him, but we should also realise that Franklin, Washington, Jefferson et al also used him as an example when they chose to rise up against Royal tyranny and establish a democracy.


  27. Speranza
    27 | January 4, 2012 9:41 am

    My opinion about the English Civil War – too bad both sides – the Cavaliers (the Royalists) and the Roundheads (the Puritans and the Parliamentarians) – could not lose.


  28. 28 | January 4, 2012 9:43 am

    @ Speranza:

    The OWS freaks didn’t do the violence and looting bit (other that raping and robbing amongst themselves). I think that is partly because in America we can shoot the looters in most parts of the nation. The OWS freaks tried to get something together here in Knoxville, and it was a total flop. It didn’t even make the local evening news. It was mocked unmercifully on local radio, though.


  29. 29 | January 4, 2012 9:43 am

    @ Speranza:

    Documented facts, no genocide in Peru. The Spanish Intermarried with the locals.

    As for what Alba did in Holland, it was payback for what the Dutch did to Catholic Flemish. The Dutch raped nuns. Fact, There was no systematic Spanish genocide of the Dutch.

    Cromwell systemically committed genocide on the Irish. His goal was the extermination of the Irish Catholics.

    Cromwell is in the league as Hitler, Stalin or Mao. A


  30. Speranza
    30 | January 4, 2012 9:45 am

    @ African Moondog:
    My favorite Cromwellian quote which was used when he dissolved the Rump Parliament is what I wish we can use on Congress one day (it has been quoted time and time again).

    You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately … Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!


  31. Speranza
    31 | January 4, 2012 9:46 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Documented facts, no genocide in Peru. The Spanish Intermarried with the locals.
    As for what Alba did in Holland, it was payback for what the Dutch did to Catholic Flemish. The Dutch raped nuns. Fact, There was no systematic Spanish genocide of the Dutch.
    Cromwell systemically committed genocide on the Irish. His goal was the extermination of the Irish Catholics.
    Cromwell is in the league as Hitler, Stalin or Mao. A

    The people of Antwerp and Haarlem would disagree on that.


  32. 32 | January 4, 2012 9:46 am

    @ African Moondog:

    You are defending him. There is nothing to praise in Cromwell. he should be treated as the historical villain.

    This is denial of a historical genocide.


  33. African Moondog
    33 | January 4, 2012 9:46 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    The OWS freaks didn’t do the violence and looting bit (other that raping and robbing amongst themselves). I think that is partly because in America we can shoot the looters in most parts of the nation.

    Good point!


  34. Speranza
    34 | January 4, 2012 9:47 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    The OWS freaks didn’t do the violence and looting bit (other that raping and robbing amongst themselves). I think that is partly because in America we can shoot the looters in most parts of the nation. The OWS freaks tried to get something together here in Knoxville, and it was a total flop. It didn’t even make the local evening news. It was mocked unmercifully on local radio, though.

    I did not say they were exactly like the British rioters but the general sense of social and political anarchy was the same.


  35. 35 | January 4, 2012 9:50 am

    @ Speranza:

    Well they committed atrocities on Catholics when they seized cities, why they get a pass? They were also allied with the Turks. Spanish paid them back. They did not want to exterminate the Dutch people. Cromwell wanted to exterminate the Irish. He said so himself!

    To compare what the Spanish did in Holland to Cromwell’s systematic genocide of the Irish Catholics is not historical accurate.

    Cromwell was a genocidal leader, no one should defend him.


  36. African Moondog
    36 | January 4, 2012 9:50 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ African Moondog:
    You are defending him. There is nothing to praise in Cromwell. he should be treated as the historical villain.
    This is denial of a historical genocide.

    I do not deny the historical genocide and remember that my family did not escape although we put it behind us! I will say that unlike Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and like that other great genocidist Napoleon 1, there is a flip side which cannot be ignored.


  37. Speranza
    37 | January 4, 2012 9:50 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ African Moondog:
    You are defending him. There is nothing to praise in Cromwell. he should be treated as the historical villain.
    This is denial of a historical genocide.

    First off it was a massacre (Drogheda and Wexford?)but not genocide in Ireland. I have heard Irish people refer to the potato famine as a British sponsored genocide.
    Not a huge Cromwell fan (actually not a fan at all) but to compare him to Pol Pot even by the standards of the time is a bit of a stretch.

    And with that, work calls.


  38. 38 | January 4, 2012 9:51 am

    The extermination of 40% of a people is genocide. I wish people would stop denying Cromwell’s evil nature.


  39. 39 | January 4, 2012 9:51 am

    @ Speranza:

    It was genocide. Most British accept it as genocide. 40% of a people exterminated was genocide.


  40. 40 | January 4, 2012 9:52 am

    Cromwell is burning in hell alongside Mohamed.


  41. eaglesoars
    41 | January 4, 2012 9:56 am

    @ Rodan:

    Roadan, I’m glad you’re here. From Investor’s Business Daily.

    Univision Wages Political War On Latino Conservatives

    The Miami Herald’s Marc Caputo reported a whole string of disgraceful pressure tactics Univision pulled to put the heat on Rubio. Those ranged from adding the words #rubio and #drugs to advertise their show on their Twitter feed and create a false link, to sending a huge TV truck to the doorstep of Rubio’s sister, to attract embarrassing attention.

    Caputo reported that the Univision shakedown also included trying to get Florida Gov. Rick Scott to call for Rubio’s resignation. Caputo said the ploy appalled Univision’s reputable journalists, who called him up to describe the egregious violation of ethics.

    What does this say about Univision and its line?

    That there’s a creepy network determined to stamp out any dissent in the Hispanic community and force all leaders to toe a party line — or else face media ruin.


  42. African Moondog
    42 | January 4, 2012 9:56 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Cromwell is burning in hell alongside Mohamed.

    There, I agree with you.


  43. 43 | January 4, 2012 9:56 am

    African Moondog wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    There are no mixed opinions on Cromwell in Catholic countries. He was a genocidal scumbag and a precursor to Hitler, Stalin and Mao.

    Not wishing to defend him, but we should also realise that Franklin, Washington, Jefferson et al also used him as an example when they chose to rise up against Royal tyranny and establish a democracy.

    That’s unfortunate, and I dare say they didn’t do so within earshot of any Irishmen. Yes, they were brutal times but that neither explains or excuses his crimes against the Irish. My original point was to take exception to mentioning him in the same sentence with Churchill as exemplars of British heroism.


  44. 44 | January 4, 2012 9:59 am

    @ Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes:

    It was genocide pure and simple. Cromwell’s own writings expose his agenda. he called for exterminating the Irish. The fact people still deny this sickens me.

    He was a genocidal leader.


  45. 45 | January 4, 2012 10:01 am

    @ Rodan:
    I believe you are looking at this whole debate through a catholic lens. I have found the most vociferous arguments against Cromwell and his campaigns come from catholics. You have to realize that in that era each “religion” participated in atrocities all over Europe. To single out a single person from that era is just a little too much IMNHO.


  46. 46 | January 4, 2012 10:05 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes:

    It was genocide pure and simple. Cromwell’s own writings expose his agenda. he called for exterminating the Irish. The fact people still deny this sickens me.

    He was a genocidal leader.

    He raped and pillaged Ireland, even going so far as deforesting it. Even today, the scarcity of trees in Ireland is striking.


  47. African Moondog
    47 | January 4, 2012 10:08 am

    @ PaladinPhil:
    well said Phil. We forget that that was a brutal century, what with the Thirty Years War, The War against the Turks, The War of The Spanish Succession etc. All these things must be taken in context.


  48. 48 | January 4, 2012 10:08 am

    @ PaladinPhil:

    40% of the population is genocide. It was intentional and planned.

    Why is Cromwell’s Genocide OK? Is it because he was English and the victims are Irish Catholics?

    If it was Catholics exterminating teh English, you bet it would be marked as Genocide. But its never genocide3 when Catholics are victims.

    It’s an Anglo-Centric historical double standard and I refuse to play that game.

    Cromwell was a genocidal monster no different than Hitler.


  49. African Moondog
    49 | January 4, 2012 10:08 am

    @ African Moondog:
    PIMF! Well said Phil!


  50. 50 | January 4, 2012 10:09 am

    @ African Moondog:

    None of the wars were genocidal. This was genocide.


  51. 51 | January 4, 2012 10:09 am

    @ Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes:

    Yeah but the victims were Catholic. So its OK what Cromwell did.
    //////////


  52. 52 | January 4, 2012 10:11 am

    None of the Roman Conquests were Genocide then.

    If we are going to have this standard, then there was no genocide before Hitler and Stalin.


  53. 53 | January 4, 2012 10:21 am

    I’m surprised, and disturbed that anyone would rise to defend Cromwell as though he was just another man of a brutal time. He wasn’t. His actions against the Irish were exceptionally cruel and brutal, even within the context of the day and writing him off as just another despot is nothing short of sanitization.


  54. African Moondog
    54 | January 4, 2012 10:22 am

    @ Rodan:

    Rodan, I don’t think that Speranza meant for this thread to be derailed by the old Irish question to which no one will ever agree. However, the warning that if the old states of Europe rediscover their spines these debates will become moot as their descendants will be too busy at the local Mosques, (former Cathedrals), stoning rape victims for immorality and whipping people for eating in the daylight hours of Ramadan to be bothered about pre Shariah grieviances.


  55. mawskrat
    55 | January 4, 2012 10:22 am

    Speranza wrote:

    There are no go areas throughout British cities where women, openly gays, Jews etc. take their life in their hands.

    hmmmm…let me see, would those areas
    be full of council housing//


  56. 56 | January 4, 2012 10:23 am

    @ Rodan:
    There were many instances where Catholics would wipe out Protestant villages in Europe. I am not saying what Cromwell did was okay. I am just saying that vilifying him as an equivalent to modern 20th century tyrants is going to far. Was he a bad man? Yes. He was just one bad man among many in that era.


  57. 57 | January 4, 2012 10:25 am

    @ Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes:

    I’m not shocked. There is a historical bias in this country. Anything done by North European Protestants is OK. But anything Catholics do is evil and genocidal. Too many Americans have been conditioned by this Anglo-Centric worldview. Luckily, I was given the Latin world vierw of history growing up and can call BS when I see it.

    It’s funny that Americans love Cromwell and defend him, yet many British historians admit he was genocidal evil man.


  58. 58 | January 4, 2012 10:27 am

    @ Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes:

    That is what is taught in public schools. I have no memory of Cromwell being accessed as even an especially bad man, let alone a genocide. That is what was taught. There is too much history fo rme to be able to read and verify everything on my own. English history has no especial attraction for me, so I haven’t persued its study further than what I was taught in school, and you well know that I attack the public school system as a failure at every oppertunity.


  59. 59 | January 4, 2012 10:28 am

    PaladinPhil wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    There were many instances where Catholics would wipe out Protestant villages in Europe. I am not saying what Cromwell did was okay. I am just saying that vilifying him as an equivalent to modern 20th century tyrants is going to far. Was he a bad man? Yes. He was just one bad man among many in that era.

    Protestants wiped out Catholic villages and raped Nuns. None of those acts was genocide. It was massacres. Cromwell systematically planned and the executed a genocide. he said so himself. To deny it and use the religious wars in Europe as a comparison is not historically accurate.

    Cromwell was a genocidal madman. Deny it all you want, but that’s what History teaches.


  60. African Moondog
    60 | January 4, 2012 10:31 am

    Ah, a good old fashioned Blogmocracy ding dong and I must leave it! I’ll try and be more regular in future. have a good one evreybody.


  61. 61 | January 4, 2012 10:32 am

    @ African Moondog:

    Cromwell was a genocidal leader, there is no historical debate on this. Its only people who think the English did no wrong that even defend this guy.

    I admit the Romans did genocide in Dacia (Romania). It’s a documented fact Trajan wanted to wipe out the Dacian nation. Cromwell did the same.

    Why can’t one admit when their ancestors were wrong? The English are no different than any other people. They have done good and have done evil. It’s called human nature.


  62. 62 | January 4, 2012 10:33 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Public Schools suck!


  63. 63 | January 4, 2012 10:41 am

    Heh, it’s interesting that my first full day with my new name (the name of my great grandfather, from the Auld Sod) would begin with a skirmish about Cromwell.

    I think he’d be proud.


  64. Speranza
    64 | January 4, 2012 10:42 am

    Rodan wrote:

    I admit the Romans did genocide in Dacia (Romania).

    How about what the Romans did during the Bar Kokhba Rebellion? Julius Caesar himself murdered over a million Gauls.


  65. Speranza
    65 | January 4, 2012 10:43 am

    mawskrat wrote:

    hmmmm…let me see, would those areas
    be full of council housing//

    Ding!


  66. Speranza
    66 | January 4, 2012 10:44 am

    African Moondog wrote:

    Rodan, I don’t think that Speranza meant for this thread to be derailed by the old Irish question to which no one will ever agree.

    Correctamundo.


  67. RIX
    67 | January 4, 2012 10:45 am

    Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes wrote:

    I’m surprised, and disturbed that anyone would rise to defend Cromwell as though he was just another man of a brutal time. He wasn’t. His actions against the Irish were exceptionally cruel and brutal, even within the context of the day and writing him off as just another despot is nothing short of sanitization.

    Cromwell was a blood thirsty tyrant for the ages.
    These lyrics ring true, “Round the World the truth will
    echo, Cromwells men are here again. Englands name again
    is sullied in the eyes of honest men.”


  68. Prebanned
    68 | January 4, 2012 10:45 am

    I can’t find anywhere in the Bible a command to conquer the world.
    The Church is supposed to be made up of believers, there should be no divisions, that is what it says.
    I have to believe human error is responsible for the terrible things that happened.


  69. Speranza
    69 | January 4, 2012 10:45 am

    Rodan wrote:

    None of the Roman Conquests were Genocide then.

    The Carthaginians during the Third (and final) Punic War and the Judeans would beg to differ.


  70. Speranza
    70 | January 4, 2012 10:50 am

    By the way at the time of the landing of the Spanish in Mexico in 1519, historians estimate the native population of Mexico to be around 11 million. Within half a century it was down to 2 million. Was that genocide?


  71. tunnelrat
    71 | January 4, 2012 10:52 am

    Sounds like Bachmann will be dropping out of the race this morning. It is a shame that she did not do better in Iowa, but it is what it is. She was the candidate who I found to be the most trustworthy. There is nothing phony about her- she has been consistent all along and you know what you are getting with her. Now we are left with a field of candidates with flip-flops and inconsistent voting records, and one with mental illness. God help us.


  72. 72 | January 4, 2012 10:55 am

    @ tunnelrat:

    In technical terms, we’re all fucked. This is a terrible field, and I don’t know that asny o the contenders can beat Obama. HE has the power of incumbancy, and above all the advantage of being the FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT. That will carry a lot of water for him.


  73. 73 | January 4, 2012 10:56 am

    @ Speranza:

    Yes those were genocides.


  74. 74 | January 4, 2012 10:57 am

    @ Speranza:

    Nope, diseases wiped them out. The Spanish did not go around slaughtering people. So no, that’s not genocide.

    The Black death wiped out 1/2 of Europe. That’s the comparisons.

    Cromwell committed genocide. The English are not saints. They had great leaders like Churchill, Duke of Marlborough and Thatcher. Then they had scum like Cromwell. All people have bad apples.

    My point is not denying genocide.


  75. Eliana
    75 | January 4, 2012 11:00 am

    @ Rodan:

    The native populations in North America didn’t have antibodies for common diseases in Europe, right?


  76. 76 | January 4, 2012 11:01 am

    @ Speranza:

    My point was if Cromwell didn’t commit genocide neither than the Romans.

    They both committed genocides.


  77. mawskrat
    77 | January 4, 2012 11:02 am

    Eliana wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    The native populations in North America didn’t have antibodies for common diseases in Europe, right?

    Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies


  78. 78 | January 4, 2012 11:03 am

    @ Eliana:

    Correct. Hence when Europeans came, they died before many saw the first Europeans.


  79. coldwarrior
    79 | January 4, 2012 11:04 am

    Men behind the wire!


  80. waldensianspirit
    81 | January 4, 2012 11:08 am

    Boehner weeps with joy


  81. 82 | January 4, 2012 11:09 am

    @ coldwarrior:


  82. coldwarrior
    83 | January 4, 2012 11:09 am

    If 40percent of a population is murdered and it somehow isn’t genocide then I don’t know what is. Cromwell was a murderous fanatic. May he rot it hell.


  83. 84 | January 4, 2012 11:09 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Eliana:

    Correct. Hence when Europeans came, they died before many saw the first Europeans.

    Much like “War of the Worlds” in reverse.


  84. 85 | January 4, 2012 11:09 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Genocide is genocide!


  85. 86 | January 4, 2012 11:09 am

    @ waldensianspirit:

    They should simply cut off funding for whatever he was supposed to be head of. Let him work for free, if he wants to…


  86. 87 | January 4, 2012 11:11 am

    @ Optimus Ebeneezer Hughes:

    Exactly!

    The whole Spanish killed Indians is lie invented by North European Protestants to smear the Spanish who were Catholic. The Black Legend was a myth. It’s really an attack on Catholics, disguised as an attack on the Spanish.


  87. 88 | January 4, 2012 11:11 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    If 40percent of a population is murdered and it somehow isn’t genocide then I don’t know what is. Cromwell was a murderous fanatic. May he rot it hell.

    Aye, that he is, but I’ll spit after mentioning his name just for good measure.


  88. coldwarrior
    89 | January 4, 2012 11:11 am

    On my bberry. Can’t see vids


  89. 90 | January 4, 2012 11:12 am

    I have a controversial thread up next.

    I express my anger at last night’s results.


  90. waldensianspirit
    91 | January 4, 2012 11:12 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    Like the ~1/2 billion worth of abortions per year by Planned Parenthood at ~$1500 a pop soaking of the American taxpayer?


  91. 92 | January 4, 2012 11:12 am

    Good grief…


  92. coldwarrior
    93 | January 4, 2012 11:14 am

    I need a new phone. This vberry is like 400 years old


  93. 94 | January 4, 2012 11:16 am

    @ waldensianspirit:

    I’d cut off funding for that as well. And any funding that goes to Planned Parenthood is going to fund abortions, just as any money that goes to Hezbollah goes to fund terrorism no matter what window dressing you put on it.


  94. 95 | January 4, 2012 11:18 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    I need a new phone. This vberry is like 400 years old

    My wife gave me the iPhone 4S and I love it. The way it seemlessly interfaces and updates itself between the Mac and both iPads is fantastic.


  95. 96 | January 4, 2012 11:20 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    I need a new phone. This vberry is like 400 years old

    Oh, how’d the travertine project turn out?


  96. 97 | January 4, 2012 11:22 am

    @ PaladinPhil:

    Fact of the matter is: Christianity (Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox) all outgrew having to spread its faith by the sword. Islam hasn’t. And won’t.


  97. Speranza
    98 | January 4, 2012 11:24 am

    tunnelrat wrote:

    There is nothing phony about her- she has been consistent all along and you know what you are getting with her.

    and what were we getting with her? A woman who claimed that Gardasil causes mental retardation?


  98. RIX
    99 | January 4, 2012 11:24 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Men behind the wire!

    That’s it!


  99. coldwarrior
    100 | January 4, 2012 11:24 am

    Later all!


  100. Speranza
    101 | January 4, 2012 11:25 am

    Macker wrote:

    @ PaladinPhil:
    Fact of the matter is: Christianity (Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox) all outgrew having to spread its faith by the sword. Islam hasn’t. And won’t.

    Christianity had a Reformation and a Counter-Reformation (and a Vatican II). Islam never did.


  101. mawskrat
    102 | January 4, 2012 11:26 am

    Rodan wrote:

    I have a controversial thread up next.
    I express my anger at last night’s results.

    well better pissed off than pissed on///

    jus sayin


  102. 103 | January 4, 2012 11:26 am

    @ Speranza:

    She hijacked the Tea Party. Who anointed her leader?


  103. RIX
    104 | January 4, 2012 11:27 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    If 40percent of a population is murdered and it somehow isn’t genocide then I don’t know what is. Cromwell was a murderous fanatic. May he rot it hell.

    I ould hope that he occupies the same ring in
    Dantes Inferno as the Dear Prophet.


  104. 105 | January 4, 2012 11:28 am

    @ Speranza:

    The exception are the Ismailis and they are viewed as apostates for it.


  105. 106 | January 4, 2012 11:28 am

    Speranza wrote:

    tunnelrat wrote:

    There is nothing phony about her- she has been consistent all along and you know what you are getting with her.

    and what were we getting with her? A woman who claimed that Gardasil causes mental retardation?

    Thank God she’s going and is taking the whiny voice and psychotic stare with her. Good riddance.


  106. mawskrat
    107 | January 4, 2012 11:30 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Like the ~1/2 billion worth of abortions per year by Planned Parenthood at ~$1500 a pop soaking of the American taxpayer?

    we have the Margaret Sanger Center in Cinci.
    when ever I drive by and see a black women
    entering I can only think that they have never
    read any quotes by Sanger about blacks


  107. tunnelrat
    108 | January 4, 2012 11:33 am

    @ Speranza:

    and what were we getting with her? A woman who claimed that Gardasil causes mental retardation?

    That is a tempest in a teapot. Was that a deal breaker for you or for anybody else? Her core principles have been absolutely consistent. She stands for small government and low taxes which are the main issues to many, if not most voters this time around.

    She did not work for a Dem. or his campaign, did not cut a commercial with Nancy Pelosi, or change her core principles in order to be elected. She was the real deal, whether you agree with her or not.


  108. 109 | January 4, 2012 11:33 am

    New Thread.


  109. 110 | January 4, 2012 11:33 am

    mawskrat wrote:

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Like the ~1/2 billion worth of abortions per year by Planned Parenthood at ~$1500 a pop soaking of the American taxpayer?

    we have the Margaret Sanger Center in Cinci.
    when ever I drive by and see a black women
    entering I can only think that they have never
    read any quotes by Sanger about blacks

    I have to hand it to her, even Hitler couldn’t get the Jews to march into the Death Camps voluntarily as Sanger and Planned Parenthood has done with blacks.


  110. 111 | January 4, 2012 11:35 am

    @ tunnelrat:

    She stands for small government and low taxes which are the main issues to many, if not most voters this time around.

    No she doesn’t. She wants a Nany state with the government controlling people’s personal life. You can’t be for small government, yet want the government to control people’s lives.


  111. Prebanned
    112 | January 4, 2012 11:41 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Macker wrote:
    @ PaladinPhil:
    Fact of the matter is: Christianity (Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Orthodox) all outgrew having to spread its faith by the sword. Islam hasn’t. And won’t.
    Christianity had a Reformation and a Counter-Reformation (and a Vatican II). Islam never did.

    Christianity today is operating much closer to the New Testament, the Commandment was to preach the Gospel to all the world. Salvation is an individual decision, the Kingdom of God is not on this world.
    There never was a commandment to conquer the world or enforce a style of Christian worship.

    Islam on the other hand is more violent the closer it adheres to the koran. The recent Arab Spring is thier reformation.


  112. 113 | January 4, 2012 11:43 am

    @ Rodan:

    Not allowing homosexual marriage is hardly controlling people’s lives. If you want to buttfuck, buttfuck away, but don’t redefine one of the core fundamentals of our culture by redefining marriage. Homosexual marriage is a loser with the voters. That is why the proponents of it (like Barack Obama) do not expound on the virtues of it, only attack the people who are against it. Whatever else you may say about her, Bachmann was no Progressive.


  113. Speranza
    114 | January 4, 2012 12:01 pm

    Too bad this thread got derailed into a debate over a 500 year old issue.


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