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Russia and China take Obama’s measure

by Speranza ( 82 Comments › )
Filed under Ahmadinejad, China, Iran, Israel, Libya, Russia, Syria, Turkey at February 8th, 2012 - 8:30 am

I guess  The One really bought into the B.S. of his great oratorical powers as well as his overhyped interpersonal skills. Russia and China laughed at him and his U.N. ambassador Susan Rice (his next National Security  after he wins reelection),  and vetoed a resolution condemning the Syrian regime lead by the murderous “reformer” and Iranian stooge Bashar  Assad.

by Caroline Glick

The Obama administration is absolutely furious at Russia and China. The two UN Security Council permanent members’ move on Saturday to veto a resolution on Syria utterly infuriated the US’s President Barack Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and UN Ambassador Susan Rice. And they want us all to know just how piping mad they really are.

Rice called the vetoes “unforgivable,” and said that “any further blood that flows will be on their hands.” She said the US was “disgusted.”

Clinton called the move by Moscow and Beijing a “travesty.” She then said that the US will take action outside the UN, “with those allies and partners who support the Syrian people’s right to have a better future.”

The rhetoric employed by Obama’s top officials is striking for what it reveals about how the Obama administration perceives the purpose of rhetoric in foreign policy.

Most US leaders have used rhetoric to explain their policies. But if you take the Obama administration’s statements at face value you are left scratching your head in wonder. Specifically on Syria, if you take these statements literally, you are left wondering if Obama and his advisers are simply clueless. Because if they are serious, their indignation bespeaks a remarkable ignorance about how decisions are made at the Security Council.

Is it possible that Obama believed that Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin would betray Bashar Assad, his most important strategic ally in the Middle East? Is it possible that he believed that the same Chinese regime that systematically tramples the human rights of its people would agree to intervene in another country’s domestic affairs? Outside the intellectual universe of the Obama administration – where stalwart US allies such as Hosni Mubarak are discarded like garbage and foes such as Hugo Chavez are wooed like Hollywood celebrities – national governments tend to base their foreign policies on their national interests.

[,,,,,]

In fact, it is impossible to believe that the administration was unaware that its plan to pass a Security Council resolution opposing Assad’s massacre of his people – and so jeopardize Russian and Chinese interests – had no chance of success. The fact that they had to know the resolution would never pass leads to the conclusion that Obama and his advisers weren’t trying to pass a resolution on Syria at all.

Rather they were trying to pass the buck on Syria.

We have two pieces of evidence to support the view that the Obama administration has no intention of doing anything even vaguely effective to end Assad’s reign of terror that has so far taken the lives of between five and ten thousand of his countrymen.

First, for the past 10 months, as Assad’s killing machine kicked into gear, Obama and his advisers have been happy to sit on their hands. They supported Turkey’s feckless diplomatic engagement with Assad. They sat back as Turkish Prime Minister Recip Tayep Erdogan employed the IHH, his regime-allied terror group, to oversee the organization of a Muslim Brotherhood-dominated Syrian opposition.

Second, the administration supported the Arab League’s farcical inspectors’ mission to Syria. That mission was led by Sudanese Gen. Muhammad al- Dabi. Dabi reportedly was one of the architects of the genocide in Darfur. Clearly, a mission under his leadership had no chance of accomplishing anything useful. And indeed, it didn’t.

AND SO, after nearly a year, the issue of Assad’s butchery of his citizens finally found its way to the Security Council last month. Many in the US expected Obama to use the opportunity to finally do something to stop the killing, just as he and his NATO allies did something to prevent the killing in Libya last year.

Ten months ago Obama, Rice, Clinton and National Security Council member Samantha Power decided that the US and its allies had to militarily intervene in Libya to ensure that Muammar Gaddafi didn’t have the opportunity to kill his people as Assad is now doing. That is, to prevent the type of human rights calamity that the Syrian people are now experiencing, Obama used the UN as a staging ground to overthrow Gaddafi through force.

Sadly for the people of Syria, who are being shot dead even as they try to bury their families who were shot dead the day before, unlike the situation in Libya, Obama has never had the slightest intention of using his influence to take action against Assad. And faced with the rapidly rising public expectation that he would take action at the Security Council to stop the killing, Obama opted for diplomatic Kabuki.

Knowing full well that Putin – who is still selling Assad weapons – would veto any resolution, rather than accept that the Security Council is a dead end, Obama had Rice negotiate fecklessly with her Russian counterparts. The resolution that ended up being called to a vote on Saturday was so weak that US Rep.

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, the chairwoman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, issued a statement on Friday calling for the administration to veto it.

As Ros-Lehtinen put it, the draft resolution “contains no sanctions, no restrictions on weapons transfers, and no calls for Assad to go, but supports the failed Arab League observer mission,” and so isn’t “worth the paper it’s printed on.”

She continued, “The Obama administration should not support this weak, counterproductive resolution, and should also reconsider the legitimacy that it provides to the Arab League – an organization that continues to boycott Israel – when it comes to the regime in Damascus.”

But instead of vetoing it, the administration backed it to the tilt and then expressed disgust and moral outrage when Russia and China vetoed it.

The lesson of this spectacle is that it we must recognize that the Obama administration’s rhetoric hides more than it reveals about the president’s actual policies.

THE FIRST place that we should apply this lesson is to the hemorrhage of administration rhetoric about Iran.

For the past several weeks we have been treated to massive doses of verbiage from Obama and his senior advisers about Iran. The most notable of these recent statements was Defense Secretary Leon Panetta’s conversation with The Washington Post’s David Ignatius last week.

Panetta used Ignatius to communicate two basic messages. First, he wanted to make clear that the administration adamantly opposes an Israeli strike on Iran’s nuclear installations. And second, he wanted to make clear that if Iran strikes Israeli population centers, the US will come to Israel’s defense.

The purpose of the first message is clear enough.

Panetta wished to increase pressure on Israel not to take preemptive action against Iran’s nuclear weapons program.

The purpose of the second message is also clear.

Panetta spoke of the US’s obligation to Israel’s defense in order to remove the justification for an Israeli attack.

After all, if the US is obliged to defend it, then Israel mustn’t risk harming US interests by defending itself.

When taken together, Panetta’s message sounds balanced and responsible. But when examined carefully, it is clear that it is not. First of all, it is far from responsible for the US government to tell its chief ally that it should be willing to absorb an attack on its population centers from Iran. No government can be expected to sit back and wait to be attacked with nuclear weapons because if it is, the Americans will retaliate against its attacker. Panetta’s message was not just irresponsible.

It was obnoxious.

And this leaves the first message. Since Obama was elected the US has devoted most of its energies not to preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, but to pressuring Israel not to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. And Panetta’s remarks to Ignatius were consistent with this mission.

[.....]

We only know three things for certain about Iran. It is getting very late in the game for anyone to take any military actions to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Iran will not stop its nuclear weapons program voluntarily. And Obama will not order US forces to take action to stop Iran’s nuclear project.

What remains uncertain still is how Israel plans to respond to these three certainties. The fact that Israel has waited this long to strike presents the disturbing prospect that our leaders may have been confused by the Obama administration’s rhetoric. Perhaps they have been persuaded that the US is on our side on this issue and that we don’t have to rely only on ourselves to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power.

But as the foregoing analysis of the administration’s very angry words on Syria and very sober words on Iran demonstrates, Obama and his deputies use rhetoric not to clarify their intentions, but to obfuscate them. Just as they will do nothing to prevent Assad from continuing his campaign of murder and terror, so they will do nothing to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons.

Read the rest – Obama’s rhetorical storm

 

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82 Responses to “Russia and China take Obama’s measure”
( jump to bottom )

  1. Speranza
    1 | February 8, 2012 8:34 am

    Let this Syrian civil war go on and on.


  2. 2 | February 8, 2012 8:35 am

    I wouldn’t put it past أوباما to send some of our already-stretched-way-too-thin military assets to bomb Syria, just like he did with Libya.
    Without Congressional Approval, mind you.


  3. Speranza
    3 | February 8, 2012 8:37 am

    Macker wrote:

    Without Congressional Approval, mind you.

    That does not apply to The One.


  4. mawskrat
    4 | February 8, 2012 9:04 am

    no spring time for Syria


  5. Moe Katz
    5 | February 8, 2012 9:06 am

    You gotta trust Assad; he’s a DOC-tor.


  6. Speranza
    6 | February 8, 2012 9:11 am

    Moe Katz wrote:

    You gotta trust Assad; he’s a DOC-tor.

    The Chinless Opthamologist looks rather moronic.


  7. Moe Katz
    7 | February 8, 2012 9:16 am

    @ Speranza:
    Yep, some cartoonists draw him with a neck as wide or wider than his head, which works well.


  8. lobo91
    8 | February 8, 2012 9:17 am

    The fact that they had to know the resolution would never pass leads to the conclusion that Obama and his advisers weren’t trying to pass a resolution on Syria at all.

    Rather they were trying to pass the buck on Syria.

    Exctly.


  9. 9 | February 8, 2012 9:34 am

    The Chinese just wanted to stick it to us. Russia doesn’t want NATO to create another Islamic state. See Bosnia, Kossovo, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya. We don’t have a good track record.

    We need to pursue our interests and tell the UN to take a hike.


  10. lobo91
    10 | February 8, 2012 9:41 am

    @ Rodan:

    We need to pursue our interests and tell the UN to take a hike.

    We have no interest in Syria.

    Or Bosnia, Kosovo or Libya, for that matter.


  11. 11 | February 8, 2012 9:49 am

    @ lobo91:

    We have no interest in Syria.

    Payback for them assisting in the killing the marines in 1983 and them helping al-Qaeda attack us in Iraq. But you do have a point. We should have hit Syria when we discovered they were helping to kill US troops. But that time has passed.

    That said, I do want the Syrians to kill each other.


  12. 12 | February 8, 2012 9:50 am

    O/T I take Mom in for breast cancer surgery today at 11:30am any and all prayers would be appreciated. Thank you…


  13. mawskrat
    13 | February 8, 2012 9:53 am

    doriangrey wrote:

    O/T I take Mom in for breast cancer surgery today at 11:30am any and all prayers would be appreciated. Thank you…

    prayers for you and your mom


  14. mawskrat
    14 | February 8, 2012 9:55 am

    for CW

    BLOODY SCARY COCKTAIL
    Selfridges’ mixologists have come up with a clever way of incorporating this spicy little number into a recipe to help with the mother of all hangovers: A devilishly spicy Bloody Mary made with 100,000 Scovilles Naga Chilli Vodka

    Ingredients
    50ml 100,000 Scovilles Naga Chilli Vodka
    100ml Tomato Juice
    Juice of half a lemon
    Dash of Worcestershire Sauce
    Dash of Tabasco
    Few dashes of Bitter Truth Celery Bitters
    Few dashes of Master of Malt Chipotle Bitters
    Pinch of salt
    Pinch of freshly ground black pepper
    Garnish: Celery stick, a slice of cucumber and a plum tomato
    Few ml olive oil.

    Method
    Combine the ingredients in an ice-filled Boston Shaker and gentle roll them (do not shake) for about 30 seconds. Once thoroughly chilled, pour through a strainer into a Hurricane glass or Highball. Top with a grind or two or fresh black pepper and a glug of Olive Oil. Make cuts in the celery, cucumber and tomato so that they may be pushed onto the rim of the glass, then add a couple of straws.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2097813/Worlds-hottest-naga-chilli-vodka-goes-sale-Selfridges.html#ixzz1lno8TQTw


  15. citizen_q
    15 | February 8, 2012 9:56 am

    @ doriangrey:
    you got it.


  16. 16 | February 8, 2012 9:57 am

    @ doriangrey:

    Prayers for your family. I hope it all goes well.


  17. 17 | February 8, 2012 9:59 am

    @ doriangrey:

    Prayers for your Mom.


  18. mawskrat
    18 | February 8, 2012 10:00 am

    and yah think you have problems
    He musthave been desperate! Moment masked armed robber in US stole sex doll at knifepoint

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098070/Police-search-man-stole-rubber-doll-sex-shop.html#ixzz1lnoo3ZEp


  19. 19 | February 8, 2012 10:04 am

    @ mawskrat:

    It’s Lewd Pig looking for a replacement fo rthe worn-out Ms.Ssssssss! 8O


  20. Prebanned
    20 | February 8, 2012 10:13 am

    doriangrey wrote:

    O/T I take Mom in for breast cancer surgery today at 11:30am any and all prayers would be appreciated. Thank you…

    Will do!
    God bless You and Your family.


  21. Speranza
    21 | February 8, 2012 10:14 am

    @ doriangrey:
    Got my fingers crossed and a prayer in my heart for her.


  22. RIX
    22 | February 8, 2012 10:15 am

    Obama is something of an Intl punchline to a really
    bad joke. Myrkle & Sarkozy think that he is a fool
    as does Israel & now Canada.
    Egypt is a defacto hostage situation, that we haven’t
    seen since Iran & Jimmy Carter.
    Egypt operates on our dime, but they apparnetly have
    no fear dissing us.


  23. Prebanned
    23 | February 8, 2012 10:16 am

    mawskrat wrote:

    and yah think you have problems
    He musthave been desperate! Moment masked armed robber in US stole sex doll at knifepoint
    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098070/Police-search-man-stole-rubber-doll-sex-shop.html#ixzz1lnoo3ZEp

    Police hope to find the doll before the unspeakable happens!

    @ Iron Fist:
    Poor dolly!


  24. mawskrat
    24 | February 8, 2012 10:17 am

    The BBC is frakkin nuts

    Whose side are they on? BBC tells journalists to stop calling Abu Qatada ‘an extremist’ – and they can’t show pictures of him looking fat either (but we can, soherehe is!)The term ‘extremist’ suggest a value judgement, say Beeb bosses Cleric should instead be described as ‘radical’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098129/BBC-tells-journalists-avoid-calling-Abu-Qatada-extremist.html#ixzz1lntZzylv


  25. waldensianspirit
    25 | February 8, 2012 10:17 am

    Macker wrote:

    I wouldn’t put it past أوباما to send some of our already-stretched-way-too-thin military assets to bomb Syria, just like he did with Libya.
    Without Congressional Approval, mind you.

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/02/report-syria-military-options-under-review-113823.html

    ht weaselzippers


  26. 26 | February 8, 2012 10:23 am

    Speranza wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Got my fingers crossed and a prayer in my heart for her.

    Thank you, that actually means a lot to me.


  27. 27 | February 8, 2012 10:24 am

    @ mawskrat:
    @ citizen_q:
    @ Iron Fist:
    @ Rodan:
    @ Prebanned:

    Thank you…


  28. 28 | February 8, 2012 10:26 am

    @ mawskrat:
    The Ceeb up here has similar guidlines, in fact I don’t think they even use the term radical. “Mis-understood” gets used a lot though, or “non-affiliated”.


  29. Prebanned
    29 | February 8, 2012 10:27 am

    @ waldensianspirit:
    The Pentagon is beginning a preliminary review of U.S. capabilities if President Barack Obama were to order military action to stop growing unrest in Syria, according to a report published Monday — though administration officials insist they remain focused on finding a non-military solution.

    The hard part is figuring out how to expose our military to enemy fire without allowing them to reduce the opposing force’s ability to fight and without taking the initiative away from the opponent.
    It has taken years to get the taliban built back up enough in Afghanistan so they can cause take over when we leave.


  30. 30 | February 8, 2012 10:30 am

    PaladinPhil wrote:

    “Mis-understood” gets used a lot though, or “non-affiliated”.

    I don’t misunderstand them and they are affiliated with terrorist organizations. And this is the mainstream of Islam, everywhere in the West. What the BBC, CBC< etc. are doing is war propaganda for the enemy.


  31. RIX
    31 | February 8, 2012 10:33 am

    @ doriangrey:
    Prayers


  32. 32 | February 8, 2012 10:42 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    The Progressive media is on the enemy’s side.


  33. citizen_q
    33 | February 8, 2012 10:43 am

    mawskrat wrote:

    The term ‘extremist’ suggest a value judgement, say Beeb bosses

    Heavens to Betsy you would not want do come out against mass murder, rape, misogyny, child brides, FGM, etc….., and say something that might be construed as a value judgement. At least if muslims are the perpetrators of course.


  34. RIX
    34 | February 8, 2012 10:46 am

    Sebelius & Axlerod are now saying that there needs to
    be “Compromise” with the Catholic Church over the
    government pharma mandates.
    They know that the Church can’t compromise, this is just
    an attempt to make the BHO Administration appear reasonable


  35. mawskrat
    35 | February 8, 2012 10:51 am

    RIX wrote:

    Sebelius & Axlerod are now saying that there needs to
    be “Compromise” with the Catholic Church over the
    government pharma mandates.
    They know that the Church can’t compromise, this is just
    an attempt to make the BHO Administration appear reasonable

    my wife works in a convent and years ago she was
    able to get a presciption for birth control pills
    for medical problems. so they can be had just not for
    birth control reasons


  36. 36 | February 8, 2012 10:54 am

    Oh and for those of you who didn’t see it when I posted it last night…

    Speaker John Boehnor and Congressman Darryl Issa conspire to betray America.


  37. mawskrat
    37 | February 8, 2012 10:57 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Obamie would love to have the BBC rules
    and regulations here


  38. waldensianspirit
    38 | February 8, 2012 11:02 am

    @ doriangrey:
    I’d enjoy seeing Boehner cry while losing his job


  39. 39 | February 8, 2012 11:04 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    I’d enjoy seeing Boehner cry while losing his job

    After this, I’d love to see him cry as he is frog marched off for criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice.


  40. mawskrat
    40 | February 8, 2012 11:11 am

    off to the basement construction poject

    BBL


  41. 41 | February 8, 2012 11:12 am

    @ doriangrey:

    Boehner is useless as a Eunuch.


  42. m
    42 | February 8, 2012 11:12 am

    Oh, well isn’t this special…

    Dependency Index Surges 23% Under Obama


  43. 43 | February 8, 2012 11:15 am

    @ PaladinPhil:

    CBC = Canadians Broadcasting Caliphate? 8)


  44. RIX
    44 | February 8, 2012 11:15 am

    @ mawskrat:

    my wife works in a convent and years ago she was
    able to get a presciption for birth control pills
    for medical problems. so they can be had just not for
    birth control reasons

    Birth control pills also work for acne.
    Personally, I have no obection to contaception.
    But the issue is tenets of the Church & this is
    Obama saying that his secular values trump any
    religious beliefs.


  45. 45 | February 8, 2012 11:16 am

    @ RIX:

    It’s too bad we can’t tell them either give up the Hostages…or lose the Aswan High Dam!


  46. 46 | February 8, 2012 11:20 am

    @ m:

    Charles Johnson is in the category!


  47. Prebanned
    47 | February 8, 2012 11:20 am

    Macker wrote:

    @ RIX:
    It’s too bad we can’t tell them either give up the Hostages…or lose the Aswan High Dam!

    And then blow it up anyway!


  48. 48 | February 8, 2012 11:21 am

    @ RIX:

    He would never do it with Islam.


  49. RIX
    49 | February 8, 2012 11:27 am

    Macker wrote:

    @ RIX:

    It’s too bad we can’t tell them either give up the Hostages…or lose the Aswan High Dam!

    That would get their attention, but BHO would never
    threaten that, much less actually do it.


  50. RIX
    50 | February 8, 2012 11:30 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ RIX:
    He would never do it with Islam.

    No he woudn’t. He seems to have complete respect for
    religion when it comes tos Islam.
    Christianity, particularly Cathlics not so much.


  51. 51 | February 8, 2012 11:41 am

    @ RIX:

    I wonder, is Rev.Wright’s anti-American, anti-Semitic Church also anti-Catholic? An intrepid reporter could probably find out, though they have sanitized their web site. It would involve a lot of watching Jeramiah Wright rave to his audience, but if he is (as I suspect) anti-Catholic, that would be a nice piece to bring up during the election, especially after this ruling.


  52. 52 | February 8, 2012 11:46 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I wonder, is Rev.Wright’s anti-American, anti-Semitic Church also anti-Catholic?

    Yes. The Catholic Church is viewed as Imperialists/Colonialists.


  53. 53 | February 8, 2012 11:47 am

    @ RIX:

    Christianity, particularly Catholics not so much

    .

    Obama figures that since many other Christians hate Catholics, its a win-win for him. He unfortunately might be right.


  54. 54 | February 8, 2012 11:47 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    I wonder, is Rev.Wright’s anti-American, anti-Semitic Church also anti-Catholic?
    Yes. The Catholic Church is viewed as Imperialists/Colonialists.

    Not to mention their damned obsession with morals, ethics and consciences. :twisted:


  55. 55 | February 8, 2012 11:49 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Christianity, particularly Catholics not so much
    .
    Obama figures that since many other Christians hate Catholics, its a win-win for him. He unfortunately might be right.

    They He counted on America Christian to remain passive, he counted wrong.


  56. 56 | February 8, 2012 11:49 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    Agreed.

    Macker wrote:

    CBC = Canadians Broadcasting Caliphate? 8)

    More like “Canadians Broadcasting Communism”. There’s not a single leftist or totalitarian ideology that they don’t <3


  57. RIX
    57 | February 8, 2012 11:49 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    I can’t imagine that Rev Wright is not anti-Catholic.
    He seems to hate everybody.
    There used to be CDs of the Revs sermons in the
    lobby.’After some enterprising reporter got his
    hands on some, they were removed.


  58. 58 | February 8, 2012 11:52 am

    @ doriangrey:

    I don’t see that big an outrages from Non Catholics, with a few exceptions. The attitude seems to be, that’s our problem.


  59. 59 | February 8, 2012 11:58 am

    @ PaladinPhil:

    Ah, so they aren’t to the Caliphate part like the Brits are. Yet.


  60. 60 | February 8, 2012 11:59 am

    Prebanned wrote:

    And then blow it up anyway!

    From Orbit. QED 8)


  61. Moe Katz
    61 | February 8, 2012 12:01 pm

    @ Macker:
    There is also a French service of the CBC called Radio-Canada, which is even further left and hopelessly pro-Palestinian.


  62. 62 | February 8, 2012 12:01 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    I don’t see that big an outrages from Non Catholics, with a few exceptions. The attitude seems to be, that’s our problem.

    I cant make you see what you don’t want to see, and you do seem determined to see all other Christians as hating Catholics.


  63. 63 | February 8, 2012 12:11 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    Even people with no faith have taken exception to what is obviously an Unconstitutional violation of free excercize of religion. I hope (and pray!) that the Supreme Court strikes this overreaching hypocrisy down quickly.


  64. 64 | February 8, 2012 12:12 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    you do seem determined to see all other Christians as hating Catholics.

    That has been my experience. Especially on Conservative blogs like Pre 2008 LGF, Hot Air and other places its open season on Catholics and the Catholic Church. Heck, even here there was Catholic bashing. We cracked down on it here and we lost people.

    I have experienced and seen bigotry due to my faith and ethnicity. It is very prevalent on my side politically. The GOP winks and nods to Catholic and Hispanic bashing (Except Cubans). Then they pretend to get upset at Obama’s anti-Catholic bias and I just don’t see it as genuine, since the GOP plays footsies with Catholic and Hispanic haters.

    Now with the Left, they are very bigoted. So as a Catholic/Rightwing Hispanic, I get it from both the Right and Left.

    If you walked in my shoes for a week, you would understand.


  65. 66 | February 8, 2012 12:20 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/290276/were-all-catholics-now-david-french

    You trying to make Rodan burst into flames?


  66. 67 | February 8, 2012 12:22 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    Wouldn’t that make him a Phoenix? 8O


  67. 68 | February 8, 2012 12:24 pm

    Oh Allahdamn it, I can honestly say that I did not see this one coming, though quiet honestly I guess I should have.

    Super. Bradley Manning for the ( wait for it… ) Nobel Peace Prize


  68. 69 | February 8, 2012 12:25 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Wouldn’t that make him a Phoenix?

    No, just a flaming Catholic… :twisted:


  69. 70 | February 8, 2012 12:31 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Wouldn’t that make him a Phoenix?

    No, just a flaming Catholic…

    I’ll take Flaming Catholics for $200, Alex! 8)


  70. waldensianspirit
    71 | February 8, 2012 12:34 pm

    The real problem is polling Catholics

    In the spirit of the Waldensian Catholics are an infuriating group to support.

    58% agree with Obama! What am I supposed to do about it? Can I expect them not to cave?


  71. Alberta Oil Peon
    72 | February 8, 2012 12:34 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    LOL! The same thought came to mind. Speed dating, Lewd Pig style.


  72. Alberta Oil Peon
    73 | February 8, 2012 12:35 pm

    @ doriangrey:
    Best wishes to you and your Mom, Dorian.


  73. Moe Katz
    75 | February 8, 2012 12:41 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:
    The Catholic sociologist Father Andrew Greeley noted many decades ago that US Catholics have a Protestant value system.


  74. Prebanned
    76 | February 8, 2012 12:43 pm

    My family was Catholic, while I was small we changed to a non- denominational style and I was baptized. I have family members that go to Catholic Mass and I go with them sometimes, it has been a while.
    I go to Methodist services whenever I am visiting my grandmother.
    I bet if Christians would hop around a little say 2 services a year it might bring us closer.
    There is only one Church one Salvation.


  75. Moe Katz
    77 | February 8, 2012 12:43 pm

    @ Moe Katz:
    This is an interesting case in point.


  76. 78 | February 8, 2012 12:43 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    58% agree with Obama! What am I supposed to do about it? Can I expect them not to cave?

    Individual democrat Catholic may well cave, they are after all democrats before Catholic’s, the Catholic church on the other hand will refuse to submit.


  77. Alberta Oil Peon
    79 | February 8, 2012 12:44 pm

    @ Macker:
    In a famous Freudian slip of years gone by: “The Canadian Broadcorping Castration.”


  78. 80 | February 8, 2012 12:44 pm

    Alberta Oil Peon wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Best wishes to you and your Mom, Dorian.

    Thank you AOP.


  79. 81 | February 8, 2012 12:47 pm

    @ Alberta Oil Peon:

    LOL!


  80. refugee000
    82 | February 8, 2012 8:36 pm

    Russia and China knew exactly what Obama was in 2008.
    Which is more than can be said of those who voted for him.


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