The whole notion that as many people as possible going to college is good for our nations economic health is as false as the idea that universal home ownership is an ideal situation. Too many people (as the article points out) are college educated waiters and janitors when they would have been far better off going to trade school and graduating with a marketable skill instead of a B.A. in Sociology or Philosophy. Too many students are going to college who actually need remedial help in reading, English and math, however as the author points out – it is in college administrators best interests to fill up the seats with warm bodies.
by Walter E. Williams
In President Obama’s 2012 State of the Union address, he said that “higher education can’t be a luxury. It is an economic imperative that every family in America should be able to afford.” Such talk makes for political points, but there’s no evidence that a college education is an economic imperative.
A good part of our higher education problem, explaining its spiraling cost, is that a large percentage of students currently attending college are ill-equipped and incapable of doing real college work. They shouldn’t be there wasting their own resources and those of their families and taxpayers.
Syndicated columnist Robert Samuelson said recently that “the college-for-all crusade has outlived its usefulness. Time to ditch it. Like the crusade to make all Americans homeowners, it’s now doing more harm than good.”
Educated Janitors
Richard Vedder, professor of economics at Ohio University, adjunct scholar at the American Enterprise Institute and director of The Center for College Affordability & Productivity — in his article “Ditch … the College-for-All Crusade,” published on The Chronicle of Higher Education’s blog, “Innovations” (June 7), pointed out that: “The U.S. Labor Department says the majority of new American jobs over the next decade do not need a college degree. We have a six-digit number of college-educated janitors in the U.S.”
Another CCAP essay by Vedder and his colleagues, titled “From Wall Street to Wal-Mart,” reports that there are “one-third of a million waiters and waitresses with college degrees.” More than one-third of currently working college graduates are in jobs that do not require a degree, such as flight attendants, taxi drivers and salesmen. Was college attendance a wise use of these students’ time and the resources of their parents and taxpayers?
[........]
The original focus of Pell Grants was to facilitate college access for low-income students. Since 1972, when the program began, the number of students from the lowest income quartile going to college has increased by more than 50%. However, Robinson and Cheston report that the percentage of low-income students who completed college by age 24 decreased from 21.9% in 1972 to 19.9% today.
Dumbing Down
Richard Arum and Josipa Roksa, authors of “Academically Adrift: Limited Learning on College Campuses” (2011), report on their analysis of more than 2,300 undergraduates at 24 institutions. Forty-five percent of these students demonstrated no significant improvement in a range of skills — including critical thinking, complex reasoning and writing — during their first two years of college.
Citing the research of AEI scholar Charles Murray’s book “Real Education” (2008), Professor Vedder says: “The number going to college exceeds the number capable of mastering higher levels of intellectual inquiry. This leads colleges to alter their mission, watering down the intellectual content of what they do.”
Up to 45% of incoming freshmen require remedial courses in math, writing or reading. That’s despite the fact that colleges have dumbed down courses so that the students they admit can pass them.
Let’s face it; as Murray argues, only a modest proportion of our population has the cognitive skills, work discipline, drive, maturity and integrity to master truly higher education.
[.......]
Colleges should refuse admission to students who are unprepared to do real college work. That would not only help reveal shoddy primary and secondary education but also reduce the number of young people making unwise career choices. Sadly, that won’t happen. College administrators want warm bodies to bring in money.
Read the rest - College For All? No, Too Many Waiters And Janitors Have Degrees
Tags: Walter E. Williams
11 Dems for contempt so far
Can we get away from all this doom and gloom Obamacare talk for awhile?
One repub voted nay
The whole College thing is a scam. As LGF shows degrees in Transgender studies or Zionist Oppression of the 3rd World will not get you a job.
Only Degrees in Sciences, Math, Technology, Healthcare, Business and Law will get you a job. You still have to work your way up. The days of coming out of College and getting 70,000 are over.
Speranza wrote:
I agree. Let’s talk about this issue. The College bubble. College is good if you need a skill set that requires years of study. Afro-Cuban Lesbian Literature will not get you a job. Maybe a page on LGF!
@ Rightwing Rebel:
There was an article somewhere this week about a woman who had a masters in popular culture and was having trouble finding gainful employment. Imagine that.
@ huckfunn:
She should have taken Capitalist Oppression History Studies. I read that degree is highly in demand!
////
Sheila Jackson Lee is making a Lee out of herself
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
With a degree like that she could easily become a commissar or czar in the O-Regime.
@ huckfunn:
Or be a poster at Little Green Footballs!
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
no, we probably can’t get away from the topic of the serious doomage of Ocare. it’s just the giant nightmare looking at us all.
on topic, i agree that college is NOT for everyone. i think everyone should decide on college or not based on their goals. if you’re a kid and your parents can’t help you and you aren’t sure, then figure it out BEFORE committing your own time and resources and BEFORE getting a single penny of student loan debt!
to Rodan -- yes, there is a bubble and the sooner it bursts, the better off we’ll be so we can get to work fixing it. this is not Obamas fault although he makes it worse. when i was at UCLA back in the stone age, many people were there on scholarships that they earned on grades are very lousy high schools. most of them dropped out but not before they wasted a sh|tload of CA taxpayer money.
@ huckfunn:
I read one where the guy was a barista for starbucks and had a degree in creative writing with tribal tats and lots of piercings. I do creative writing all day long in my status reports. didn’t need a degree for it either.
@ Kirly:
What is causing the College Bubble is what caused the real estate Bubble. Government subsided loans. I saw a Stossel Special where some Universities have Spas, Sauanas, Restaurants and Cocktail Lounges. They get away with this because of Government money. Take away teh subsidies and guess what, people can’t afford the high price. If people stop going, Colleges will be force to lower their prices.
It’s a scam that is a house of cards.
@ MikeA:
He would fit right in at LGF!
MikeA wrote:
I have a bachelor o’farts in geography and apparently I didn’t need the degree either.
@ huckfunn:
I heard Charles has a Degree in mental breakdowns. It seems to have gotten him far in life!
Dems are using this time to attack the Second Amendment!
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
i know. now that i travel for my job, i run into college students or recent graduates who live better than i do and who DO NOT WORK. they are living off of student loans. and no d@mn way these things should ever be forgiven. NEVER EVER. no circumstance is acceptable in my opinion, not even DEATH! let the govt get the taxpayer money back from whatever you owned before your family gets it. i’m NOT kidding. why so harsh? because, dammit, i got some very SMALL student loans to get myself through school, i paid OVER 9% interest on them, and i paid every damn penny back myself. and now someone wants ME, as a taxpayer, to foot the bill for them to live better than i do now after all that and after working for 25+ years? no f’g way.
@ Rightwing Rebel:
And a Doctorate in Cheeto Tasting
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
And tuition goes up, substantially, every year. Here at the University of Louisville, there was a 6% increase and that was rather average to small, historically. Tuition has nearly tripled since 2000. I can’t think of anything that’s tripled in price since 2000!
@ Kirly:
They want you to pay for them to get a spa Message between classes.
@ MacDuff:
Its all Subsidized money fueling this. It is just like the Housing bubble. I find it disgusting there are Universities that have Spas, Cocktail Lounges, Nightclubs and Videogame halls. It is supposed to be to acquire a skill-set.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
no, it is not. skill sets are acquired at trade schools. college/university used to be to get an education.
not that it matters. the old dems in this country (like my uncle) think everyone should go to college so they have a better education. i say, well, gee, why don’t we make primary education the way it was when the old farts went to school -- you know, back when you had to actually learn to read, write, spell, do basic and even moderate math, study things like the classics, the constitution, geography (americans don’t know where anything is!), history of the US and the world. you know, with actual tests that you have to pass. modern public schools are babysitters.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Yep. They feel they’re peddling a “must have” product so they charge what they please. People think that “life sans degree is no life at all” so, once again, we’re
investingpissing away billions and ginning up a “crisis” so that we can piss away even more.BTW, I wonder if anyone has ever looked into price fixing at universities?
the more federal money pours into colleges the faster the tuition goes up…somebody is getting soaked while liberal elitist rake in the dough…a pet beef of mine…unions, tenure, fed dollars
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Lol!
If the Government really wanted to fix something they should stop trying to fix it.
DC Town is full of Idiots that can fuck up an iron ball with a wooden stick…
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Also a degree in Education can get you a job.
Too many young people are wasting their time and money going to law school.
@ Kirly:
I agree. Why not improve Pre-College education. Buzzsaw can tell you that HS text books in the 50′s where the same as College books today. Our Education has downgraded and that was done by design.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
You mean that there are not a lot of jobs in the classifieds for people with degrees in Art History with a specialty in 19th century French Impressionism?
@ Speranza:
That’s a good point! Look at OWS, I saw some guy claiming they could not get a job and they went to College. They had a degree in English Literature.
@ Speranza:
Well you can qualify to do a page at LGF.
heysoos wrote:
The College administrators as the article states are interested in filling up the seats with warm bodies to justify their high salaries.
@ Speranza:
Yup, they know that Feds will pay for it ultimately.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Oh that’s a great career path. /
@ Rightwing Rebel:
That’s because if Little Johnny is to fucking stupid to grasp the concept of 1 + 1 = 2, the rest of the class has to dumb down to his level instead of a teacher teaching him. Wouldn’t want to hurt his feelings now would we?
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Yes there is a large demand for folks who are familiar with the poetry of John Donne.
it’s not about education, it’s about ideology and votes….same with welfare and other entitlements….democrats grow their voters and it doesn’t cost them a cent
@ Speranza:
I heard Charles provides great benefits. Just ask Gus802!
///
@ Speranza:
There are a ton of job opening for people who studied Picasso and Van Gogh!
I have met more than a few obnoxiously ignorant, degreed sombitches in my time. Not only is college unnecessary in many cases, in far too many cases it is in totally ineffective.
@ NoThreat2U:
Plus Teachers don’t want to tutor and help. They just want to get paid.
@ MacDuff:
Nightclubs in Colleges really pissed me off. I saw that on a John Stossel special.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
The vast majority of them are just interested in more time off, more benefits, and earlier retirement. Teaching is just a job for them. I know what I am talking abut as I have subtaught on and off since 1989.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Hey I love van Gogh’s paintings but it can only be a hobby.
@ Speranza:
You probably really do teach. What do you sub, History?
You and I have had awesome historical conversations on the phone.
@ Rightwing Rebel:
True. I went through this kind of stuff with my own kids. It is easier to label them as AD/HD and medicate them now.
@ Speranza:
Correct, not a Career path.
@ NoThreat2U:
Like everything else, turn people into pill addicts. Doctors make money.
MacDuff wrote:
omgosh, so have it! if you’ve never heard/read me go on about “BrainBoy”, you haven’t lived. this little idiot was first an “English” major and then switched to engineering. he used to spend hours writing up emails consisting of 2 paragraphs. he actually said that the more complicated your writing and the bigger words you used, then the smarter people thought you were. i, of course, knowing that to be understood one should speak clearly with common words (you know, why use a big word when a diminutive one will do//) so i told him it made him look stupid and arrogant. and, he was fairly universally ignored because no one understood what the hell his point was. not that it mattered, he never actually produced anything of value either. i don’t know why they kept him around. he was the stupidest person i’ve ever met with an engineering degree.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
I once had an art history grad argue with me that Picasso was Italian. When I first told her he was a Spaniard, she condescendingly reminded me of her “credentials”. It’s not about knowledge, it’s about credentials and there are a lot of these credentialed morons in very responsible positions.
@ Rightwing Rebel:
I cringe at the idea of turning children into mindless zombies. In my local paper today was a letter to the editor from someone bitching about charter schools. Those charter school kids learn more and learn better then public schools. The letter writer thought they were bad ideas though. Stupid asses.
@ MacDuff:
She probably hear Spanish and thinks its Italian or vicecversa These are people who are closed minded and rigid. They are brainwashed with a piece of paper.
@ NoThreat2U:
I would outsorce education to Catholic Schools and Charter Schools. They would be more effective and actually teach.
@ Rightwing Rebel:
I could not agree more.
@ NoThreat2U:
They teach outight lies in Public Schools.
@ Kirly:
Colleges shouldn’t have to teach writing and language skills -- and they apparently don’t. That should be handled in primary and secondary schools -- but it’s not. The result is that we have professionals that may be highly knowledgable in their field of expertise, but lack entire swaths of fundamental skills.
@ MacDuff:
Well said and I totally agree.
This is a very good subject.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
If you did that, you would put the unons out of business. Can’t have unemployed teacher’s union people on the street. Thats heartless..///
MacDuff wrote:
correct! it’s an embarrassment! you should see the incorrect use of I/Me/Myself. not that i’m perfect, i make mistakes in haste too but in business communications, i make sure it’s right. some people write a 2 sentence email that simply cannot be understood. you still have to call them and ask them what the hell they meant. it’s patheric!
@ Rightwing Rebel:
They sure as hell don’t teach the basics…readin’, writing, and arithmetic.
@ MikeA:
They will be fine…they will get free healthcare. What more do they need//
Soaking Botox does a brain in
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
I teach everything (except dance) but only on the grades 1 -5 level.
I enjoy our historical conversations.
MacDuff wrote:
My friends brother (a legacy grad of Columbia -- B.A. in Economics) once asked me “Who were we fighting in Vietnam?”
@ Kirly:
Their, there, your, you’re, and the friggin’ obsession that has swept the country with commas before and “s” when it’s the last letter in a word. For God’s sake, it indicates possessive or a contraction!
We’re a couple of EMPs away from being a nation of illiterates.
@ Speranza:
I still laugh that Montgomery thinks he was the greatest general of all time, followed by Alexander and Napoleon.
Speranza wrote:
I hope that you told him “the racist Confederates in the South”!
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Sir Alan Brooke the Chief of the Imperial General Staff during World War II remarked that the reason why British commanders were so frankly mediocre was that the best young British officers were killed in World War I. I agree with that. The best British commander in WWII (and he was actually from the Indian Army) was General William Slim the commander of 14th Army in the Burma campaign. monty ws a legend in his own mind, a good but not great commander.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Electric is the greatest general of all time, followed by motors and foods.
MacDuff wrote:
I should have said the Romans.
I kid you not, he asked me who were we fighting against in Vietnam.
@ Speranza:
Yup, Indian Army would have wiped the floor with many of the fighting forces of WWII. British command and Disciple with Indian manpower, was a deadly combo.
@ Rightwing Rebel:
Frak! You told me one time who that Colombian guy is and I keep forgetting. Must be another Senior Moment…. 8)
@ Speranza:
Nimrod was a tough foe in North Korea!
I wasn’t very interested in college. Though I tested in the top 3% in the SATs and could have gone anywhere, I just wasn’t very interested in it. Instead I moved out of my mother’s house at 19, supported myself 100% and after about a year decided to try school. A friend strongly suggested that I should go. I enrolled and paid for it myself. Took two classes at Hunter College and quickly realized it was a huge waste of time. So I went to art school instead. Worked full time for a photographer on 57th Street and went to art school at night. All paid for by me. Tuition, supplies, everything. I didn’t get a degree but I got a meaningful education and a skill. I worked hard all my life, from the bottom up and eventually found an industry I love. It wasn’t luck, it was hard work and the willingness to do anything to survive.
@ Urban Infidel:
Congrats on your success. That proves that with determination, one can succeed.
@ Rightwing Rebel:
In both World War I and World War II -- it seems that the best French and British commanders got their start in the colonial armies.
Marshal Gallieni the savior of Paris at the Battle of the Marne in September 1914 was from the French forces in North Africa which comprised French Algerians, native Algerians, Moroccans and Senegalese troops, General Slim in WWII as I mentioned before was from the Indian Army. In those armies you rose through merit and not family connections. During the 1940 Battle for France, the French colonial troops (many of whose descendants would be fighting against France 20 years later) were the North African tirailleurs.
Speranza wrote:
It’s really not that hard to see how Obama has effectively bamboozled the country, is it? Never before in history has the common man had ready access to so much information…..unfortunately, much of it is wrong.
@ Macker:
Carlos Castano. Ex member of the Medellin Drug Cartel and Founder of teh AUC. He took on Communist rebels (The FARC) and a corrupt 2 Party Progressive Establishment. He laid the groundwork for the Rightwing National Unity Party under Uribe to take over Colombia in 2002.
He’s one of my heroes.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
I think college can impede becoming an adult. It seems to provide an environment that produces an extended adolescence.
@ MacDuff:
Hey people think his voice parts rains clouds.
MacDuff wrote:
Yes and his dad is a millionaire yet a hard core liberal.
Urban Infidel wrote:
The biggest waste is law school.
@ Urban Infidel:
Now they have Spas, Nightclubs and Cocktail Lounges at Colleges.
@ Speranza:
I have net met a Poor Progressive.
@ Urban Infidel:
You were the very definition of ambition, focus and self-confidence.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Their kids though romanticize poverty.
@ Speranza:
Yup, they think being poor is Hip and Trendy.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Extended adolescence indeed. For me all college did was give me a four year hiatus before having to hit the pavements, pathetic resume in hand. By the way I am a Hunter College graduate.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
That is because they ultimately have money backing them. Sort of like Marie Antoinette and her court playing at being peasants at Versailles.
Damn it’s hot! It just hit 100 and the birds are out in the fountain acing like they’ve found paradise.
MacDuff wrote:
Globaaaal warming!
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Yeah, until they discover that the poor don’t have, ya know, money.
Rightwing Rebel wrote:
Causes the oceans to stop rising! The planet to heal! King Putt!
MacDuff wrote:
And if you are a guy it helps to have some money in your pocket if you expect to get laid. Poor is not a turn on with the girls.
Speranza wrote:
I read the other day that it takes less energy to cool your house in the summer than it does to heat it in the winter. We need to stop worrying and learn to love global warming.
Speranza wrote:
Maybe, but at least it can provide a job when you’re done. And you have to be at least a little smart to go. It’s the liberal arts college crap that is total waste. My boyfriend’s niece was taking a class called ‘inter-cultural communication’ whatever the hell that is! I just laughed. What the hell does one do with that?
MacDuff wrote:
I don’t worry about stuff like that. I let the Race Detective do all the worrying for me.
Urban Infidel wrote:
I agree. I meant that law school is often a waste because:
1. there are too many lawyers
2. too many people go to law school (right after undergrad school) because they want to put off making a decision in their lives so they buy themselves three more years of being a student
3. too many seats in law school are filled by kids who in their heart of hearts really don’t want to be there while many other kids really want to go but did not score high enough.
4. meanwhile once they graduate law school they have to pass the bar exam and then they are often stuck in a profession they will hate because of astronomical student loans that need to be paid off.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Do you know how many dumb ass lawyers I have met and worked with since 1987?
Urban Infidel wrote:
The answer to your question is you wait tables or bartend!
Urban Infidel wrote:
Methinks it allows you to understand your navel whilst you’re gazing at it. When you’re about to spend the balance of your life gazing at the damned thing, that’s valuable!
Trey Gowdy (R-SC) ripping Holder a new one. Streaming live on Fox.
@ huckfunn:
He sure is!
Also Issa was ready for the misrepresentation of the Terry family from the bloke from Michigan
MacDuff wrote:
Our condo fees aren’t going up because it cost $400,000 less to heat everything as a result of a milder winter.
@ Speranza:
Ugh. Sounds like hell. So glad I found the publishing industry. Got my first job on a temp assignment, made myself indispensable as a department assistant and the rest is history. I suggested temping to the newly graduated above-mentioned niece. Her father severely wrinkled his nose at the idea of his princess temping. Fools. With no prospects and no work resume at all after being a full time student, what’s she going to do? I had door after door open up to me on assignments in some of the most interesting companies in film, fashion, books, etc. Not all was glamorous, but life isn’t supposed to guarantee favors. Some of it was crappy, hard, boring work.
Buying an expensive sports car is a much better buy than a liberal arts degree; it will always have some value and in 20-30 years, you may even make some money from it.
@ MacDuff:
I am dealing with a doctor at work and his email signature from his phone is
“name”
“please excuse typo’s and brevity”
A DOCTOR.
MacDuff wrote:
That is such a guy thing to say.
waldensianspirit wrote:
Dingleberry insinuated that he had the support of Brian’s Terry’s family. Issa, in so many words, called him a liar. The dems picked this fight and are getting a public whipping. Rooh Rah!
MacDuff wrote:
certain muscle cars from the 60′s are worth close to or actually over $1million…67 COPO Camaros for example….very rare tho
Bloomberg reports that German Chancellor Angela Merkel has cancelled a press conference scheduled for this evening after the conclusion of today’s meetings.
The cancellation could suggest that EU leaders are talking about sweeping strides to reform the structure of the euro area—or it could also mean that they’re not agreeing at all.
We also speculate that everyone just wants to get home and watch the Italy-Germany Euro 2012 soccer match. We’re not sure yet.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Therein is the lesson that you’ll never learn in college as college is supposed to guarantee favors. The problem now is that there are people out there with degrees, mortgages on those degrees, and they’re not getting their goddamned favors.
@ Urban Infidel:
You paid your dues and your self confidence at such a young age was so admirable. I drifted for so long and was just content to find a better job rather than a career. Now I am running out the clock here.
Student loan debt is a killer.
@ Urban Infidel:
Let me guess -- they are liberals.
Greetings Comrades. I know that it is bad form to carry over
from another thread, but i was traveling.
Ironically I was driving to Iowa to do a meeting
on Obama Care. I thought that I would have to pivot on the
fly when the in Individual Mandate was kicked from the
Bill.
I am missing something, if this a tax, what is the taxing
event?
Being paid is an event, selling something at a profit
is an event, capital gains is an event, buying something
is an event.
But how can I be taxed for something that I didn’t buy?
This looks like a fine.
RIX wrote:
Makes no sense to me. I guess you’ll have to axe John Roberts.
@ RIX:
tax, penalty, fine…it’s all the same
if you refuse the insurance(mandate/tax)then you pay the penalty (tax/fine)
Great Dennis Miller clip from today. “The new aggrieved minority is the majority”
Walk away, walk away!
I wonder at what point the Congressional Black Caucus would NOT support Obama? Is not just one of them capable of independent thought?
This developing habit of Democrats (of all colors, gradations and sex organ preference) walking out on the proceedings of representative democracy is one of the more infuriating trends of the past year.
This is creepy. Newsbird had a post up about Holder, so I went to see it, and ZAP, the whole blog disappeared. Ulsterman had a Holder post and I clicked on it, and ZAP, the post disappeared. Not the whole blog, just the Holder post. Somebody scrubbing?
Speranza wrote:
Yup! They all voted for the affirmative action Zero.
@ huckfunn:
yup
heysoos wrote:
No, it’s not really all the same.
The government aruged their right to levy
a tax under the Commerce Clause.
If it was viewed as a fine the Individual
mandate probably would hve failed
Russia is now a Free Market nation. The US is now Marxist thanks to the Democrats and the GOProgressives.
Might as well make this our anthem!
Sad day for this once great nation.
@ MacDuff:
They walked out again.
The Corpulent Creep’s take on Holder’s contempt.
RIX wrote:
well it’s good enough for me…how else do you explain it?….it’s just mixing words around
Speranza wrote:
If you are exceptionally talented, and I do mean EXCEPTIONALLY, and you have prudent business sense, you can indeed make a living with your painting. But you had better be willing to bust @$& for many years to get to that point.