One of the frustrations when discussing economics with a liberal is simply getting them to except the basic tenets of reality. What I so dismissively refer to as frustration, is really the urge to bang my forehead as hard as I can into a brick wall while simultaneously placing my wet and salted fingers into the nearest electric socket. Often, the debate will take one of a very few turns, my favorite among them is what does a government actually produce.
One of the basic differences between the Austrian and Keynesian schools of thought is which is more important to a nation’s wealth, its aggregate spending or its total productivity. I agree with the former group, the Austrians, who will tell us that wealth is not dependent on what is spent, but on what a society actually creates, meaning its productivity. Believe it or not, I am often able to get my adversaries to accept this premise, but the breakdown occurs when we discuss what is created by governments.
Governments you see, produce nothing. That is not the same as saying that they accomplish nothing, the two statements are different. Governments accomplish certain very limited things, and to date I see no way to take those things from their fat and bloated hands. National defense, rule of law, maintenance of our currency, provision of a set of rules to promote transparency and prevent fraud are included in that very limited set of responsibilities. Out side of that, the government has shown a unique ability to screw up everything else it touches. Every thing else the government involves itself in is paid for only by its ability to destroy wealth, which means to forcibly confiscate the fruits of the labor of its citizens. Those roads and bridges offered up as this wonderful infrastructure that was magically created by our government, was only built due to the government’s ability to hire private construction companies and to pay them off with wealth confiscated from private citizens, who they then denigrate as being ungrateful members of the 1% class of, “rich,” people.
Sooner or later during this turn of our debate, I’ll get what the liberal often feels is the ultimate atomic bomb of debate lobbed in my direction. Government is responsible for creating the internet. What will follow this is a smug look of ultimate debate ending victory. I will answer with a quick, “baloney,” which provokes an odd combination of surprise, incredulous disbelief, arrogance, and doubt. For a single solitary moment, I’ll get to glimpse into the eyes of someone who has just realized, and for the first time, that their atomic bomb may have turned out to be a fizzle.
If your are interested in how the internet really started, then click the link I provided at the beginning of this sentence. It will take you to a Wall Street Journal article that gives an accurate description of how private enterprise was able to create the internet, only after our government mishandled the technology for the better part of 4 decades. The internet came about because once the government took itself out of the way of private enterprise, property rights, risk/reward ratios, ingenuity, an entrepreneurial spirit, and every other component of the free market system was able to follow Adam Smith’s invisible hand to the greatest creation of wealth ever seen in human history.
It is true that DARPA began networking computers, and did so well ahead of the private sector. It is also true however that private enterprise began networking computers independently of the government’s efforts. In 1970, Gene Amdahl of Sunnyvale, California, began selling his Amdahl 370 computers to private businesses located near college campuses across the country that had top tier systems engineering departments. He was able to show other companies who wanted to use computers for their own businesses how they could save a fortune by buying smaller mini computer systems of their own, rather than a main frame, and use a remote connection to the larger main frame computer for the bulk of their computing work. He was a visionary, and with a bunch of these mini hubs of computing power spotted throughout the country. One example was Compuserv in Columbus, Ohio. He sold Compuserv 3 Amdahl 370′s, and then sold Univax PDP 11′s to AT&T, Bank One, Battelle, Ross Labs, Worthington Industries, etc. What we had thanks to Gene Amdahl’s vision was a growing network of private enterprises connected to a central web of computing power, capable of talking not only with the hubs, but with each other. It took no more than a decade for the individual hubs to connect to each other, and for DARPA to begin using the larger system as well.
Yes, certain aspects of formatting and programming were accomplished by the Department of Defense, but their contributions languished at the hands of governmental ineffectiveness for a very long time. The internet was developed in spite of the U.S. government, and not as a result of it. This particular piece of misinformation bothers me for a few reasons. One, while it is so egregiously wrong, it is repeated back to me as though it came from the Gospel itself. Two, it completely disregards the accomplishment of free enterprise and those people who choose to embrace all that is possible within the free market system. Gene Amdahl brought the internet to people capable of affording a mini frame computer, mostly large businesses, and Steve Jobs brought the internet to private home users, or folks who could afford a micro computer. Three, and perhaps most important, it gives credit for the single greatest wealth creation in human history to the very entity which did everything possible to prevent that creation from occurring in the first place. Believing that this was a government creation is in fact dangerous thinking.
Cross Posted from Musings of a Mad Conservative.
Progressives don’t deal with reality.
Charles Johnson invented blogging!
/////
While Al Gore has been unfairly demonized over the comment he made regarding the creation of the internet, what you say is mostly true. However, the origins of go back considerably further than your post alludes.
First caveat: Al Gore never actually claimed to invent the internet, what he claimed was that he had a significant hand in it’s creation. His claim does have a certain veracity which in all honestly should be acknowledged. As a Senator Al Gore was responsible for providing DARPA with funding that led to significant advances in the infrastructure of the fledgling internet.
That said, however the internet has, not a father, but in fact, a mother. Her name is Jane Wyman, yes, the same Jane Wyman who was once married to Ronald Reagan. During WWII Jane Wyman (who had a degree in electrical engineering) worked for the OSI. While working for the OSI she invented the electrical routing switch. The electrical routing switch, which was specifically invented for Naval Teletype Communications became what is today known as the “Router”.
Designed originally to facilitate Naval Communications it became the switching device which allows computers to be networked together.
@ Rodan:
And here, I thought his purpose in life was to win the coveted, “B. Hussein Obama Most People Under the Bus Award.”
@ doriangrey:
Without resorting to picking the pepper from the flyshit, my entire point is that this is not some invention of a government bureaucracy which they decided to allow the private sector to participate in. Like any structure to a great advancement in the quality of life, there are many different advancements which people of foresight found an ingenious means of taking full advantage of otherwise unseen opportunities before them.
The computer itself was an invention. The router was an invention. Yes ARPA, and then later DARPA networked computers, and did so prior to the private sector. The did not however network those computers and then say, “here private sector see if you find this useful.” Someone from the government left that service and said here big business is something which you may find useful. Even that was not yet an internet, it wasn’t until someone from Compuserv called one of their brother companies doing the same thing in California and decided to hook their two distinctly separate networks together in order to create a super network that the whole thing began to take off. The internet was not an invention, but more of a gradual occurrence facilitated by private enterprise.
Al Gores proposal was made in 1991, which was long after the internet already existed in its current form. Spending money on creating something which was already in existence is precisely one of the many points of what is wrong with government. I will give Al Gore credit where it is due though, he knew in 1991 that he would want credit for this great tool, and he realized it before most other people knew its potential.
@ Flyovercountry:
Sorry, not trying to diminish the point you were making, which I completely agree with. Just that I believe that we shouldn’t hide or ignore the truth.
You are absolutely correct, the internet was not a government invention, is was a evolution of communications and electronics driven by nerds and geeks in college desperately trying to impress private enterprise with reasons why they should be hired upon graduation.
It was in fact, capitalism at it’s finest that created the internet. It was once said of the LASER, that it was a solution in search of a problem, that description properly belongs to all of the various technologies that eventually were combined to create the internet.
doriangrey wrote:
Are you sure about that?
MacDuff wrote:
Yup, it’s one of those things you have to be a geek to know, but it is true.
On the plus side, he DID invent anthropogenic global warming.
@ doriangrey:
And actress Hedy Lamarr was a co-inventor of spread-spectrum broadcasting, one of the key technologies making cell phones practical.
The Watcher wrote:
Very true.
Alberta Oil Peon wrote:
Yup, shame we don’t seem to be seeing people of their caliber in Hollywierd anymore.
doriangrey wrote:
She and Reagan were married in 1940 and she has film credits throughout the war. She was making movies AND working as an electrical engineer for OSI simultaneously? There’s not a hint of this anywhere, that I can find.
@ The Watcher:
@ lobo91:
ROTFLMAO… I am soooo going to let that one go… An “Inconvenient Truth” indeed…
Interesting…I got a hit on my site yesterday from Japan.
Not a clue why…
doriangrey wrote:
If he’d been smart, he would have trademarked it.
Just think how rich he’d be today…well, how much richer.
doriangrey wrote:
Wow! She worked for Oscar Goldman? 8)
That is why I don’t get it that part of the GDP is government spending like salaries of public servants or purchasing of weapons for the military.
Alberta Oil Peon wrote:
NOT Hedley! 8)
So far as I can determine Jane Wyman never finished high school, much less got a degree in engineering.
Mike C. wrote:
Next you’re going to tell us the Germans didn’t bomb Pearl Harbor…
//
Mike C. wrote:
That makes it an even more impressive achievement…
MacDuff wrote:
Excuse me, my bad, OSS not OSI. There were a surprising number of BIG Hollywood actors who worked for the OSS During WWII. Finding any reference to any of them is damned difficult.
lobo91 wrote:
Why the sarc tags??????
@ Guggi:
@ lobo91:
@ Mike C.:
@ Flyovercountry:
Guys, Look at the GDP post I did. Eagle Soars had this link from Zerohedge.
@ doriangrey:
See my #25 about 2nd Q GDP.
doriangrey wrote:
I googled high and low for Jane Wyman (and her true name Sarah Jane Fulks) and couldn’t find a thing about her having an engineering degree or inventing the router. Do you have a link, or is this just family lore handed down by your great-grandmother with high cheekbones? —————> Out the door and runs like hell.
@ huckfunn:
see #25.
@ Rodan:
Since they count government expenditures as part of GDP, that means we borrowed our growth, doesn’t it? That can’t go on forever. I wish Romney would point this out. I have thought for a long time that we were really in a recession. They are gaming the system. Real growth isn’t happening.
@ Rodan:
@ Iron Fist:
Borrowed our growth from the Chicoms? That has about as much future as a homo homicide bomber’s grandchildren.
@ Iron Fist:
Well, we have one advantage over the Weimar Republic: Since everyone uses debit cards these days, we won’t have to take wheelbarrows full of cash to the store to buy a loaf of bread.
//Progress!
@ Iron Fist:
@ lobo91:
@ huckfunn:
Even worse. Wall Street loves it. The market is up 200 points right now. The 1.5% growth means they expect The Feds to do QE3.
Don’t you love 3rd World Economics?
Rodan wrote:
What makes you think Wall Street loves it? The fact that the Dow is up? No, that’s just inflation.
Aurora type massacre averted in Maryland.
I just heard on the radio that when the cops showed up to talk to him, he answered the door wearing a T-shirt that said “Guns Don’t Kill People, I Do”.
@ Rodan:
We make money the old-fashion way. We print it…
@ Rodan:
No I don’t love 3rd World Economics…good grief..in 3 and 3/4 years obama has done a lot of damage.
Sunday will be 100 days till the election.
Oh I did see a political sign yesterday…
My Family Votes For Religious Freedom
doriangrey wrote:
Eh, OK, but I’m kinda sticking with my skepticism for the time being.
@ Rodan:
There is a hedge to this for your retirement plans. Look for the floating rates fund in your 401k’s or for the short duration bond funds. overweight into large cap value for your equity holdings and batten down the hatches. When the interest rates take off and inflation goes hyper, it is going to get ugly.
@ huckfunn:
Good grief …. I think I read an article yesterday that we don’t have a gun control problem we have a mental health problem going on.
Lily wrote:
All the more reason to be not just armed, but well armed.
Lily wrote:
A whole generation of kids who’ve been drugged most of their lives and grew up playing violent video games?
What could go wrong?
//
@ MacDuff:
It was on the Internet. It must be true …
@ huckfunn:
It’s is really weird…our country has gone insane …or bipolar..
Read an article today by leftist Donald Kaul…good grief..he started off all right but then when on a spill about how evil the Republicans are and they are wanting to make our country a theorcary (not excat words but implied) and are selling our country out plank by plank while the Centrist democrats do nothing.
I just thought to myself ‘what the hell?’ Of course he also said he was retiring. Really how can anyone think like this?
Iron Fist wrote:
There’s so much disinformation on the internet that I’m beginning to wonder if Al Gore really did invent it!
lobo91 wrote:
Yep I saw a lot of bad parenting going on while I was raising my two sons.
Lily wrote:
Rush just commented about the fascist mayors of Chicago and San Francisco. The escalators in SF public buildings are clogged because the
homelessstumblebums are crapping in them. Chicago is the murder capital of the U.S. However both mayors find it important to carry out a pogrom against a Christian who says he supports traditional marriage. Strange days indeed.Everything is racist these days..
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/07/27/liberal-rag-romneys-ads-against-obamas-you-didnt-build-that-are-racist/
@ Flyovercountry:
I’ll email you later for some advise.
@ huckfunn:
This attack on Chic-fil-a is really bizarre.
Lily wrote:
It’s coordinated by the DNC to distract people.
@ Lily:
Even France 24 has been covering it.
@ Lily:
Just how bizarre….
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/07/27/chick-fil-a-ban-fever-hits-liberal-academia-students-at-university-of-kansas-wichita-state-university-seek-removal-of-chain-from-their-campuses/
Lily wrote:
You are going to hear RAAAAACIST a lotthis election. That is really all Obama has, and he will play it to the max. It’d serve him right if he only took, say, 10% of the white vote. That won’t happen, of course. There are too many white racists who will vote for Obama because he’s black …
@ lobo91:
The Republicans should hit the DNC as an anti-Christian hate group. That has the virtue of being true …
lobo91 wrote:
I believe it. Even France 24 is covering it? Geepers..really? This is the most pressing thing in our nation right?
Chic-fil-A believes in tradically marriages? That is just INSANE.
/////////////////////////
Iron Fist wrote:
“Racist” is going the way of “Nazi”; if that’s the only argument you have, you’ve already lost.
@ Lily:
Darn keyboard. Please excuse the spelling errors!
/it’s still a damn communist.
@ Iron Fist:
Yep and I hope people get sick and tired of hearing it.
Now this is classy:
Since when is the question about pro or against same sex marriage a question of racism ? Since when is homosexuality a race ?
MacDuff wrote:
I agree…but I have to tell you some people who never ever spoke about race are talking about how racist some people are. These are hard-core democrat voters who could never, ever bring themselves to vote R no matter what…even if Charles Manson was on the D ticket.
@ Lily:
The French think it’s a quaint notion.
Marriage, that is…
//
@ Iron Fist:
@ Lily:
I saw a sign ona care that said:
I already have a God, Vote Nobama in 2012!
Guggi wrote:
It became one right after Islam did…
@ MacDuff:
racist just means heretic to the Left. It doesn’t mean you are racist. It just means you don’t worship their god-king.
@ lobo91:
I have no words for such a disgusting piece of sh*t.
Iron Fist wrote:
That is true. They are trying to instill fear into the Republicans are trying to turn our country into a theocracy. Good grief is all I have to say about that.
@ MacDuff:
I’m hoping that is the way the electorate sees it. Obama has the advantage of having the media totally in the tank for him. I’ve never seen the media so cravenly in the tank for a politician. Not even for Clinton, whom they loved.
Rodan wrote:
His attack on the Catholic Church is doing him some damage.
@ Iron Fist:
Plus he’s still considered Black last time I looked.
Iron Fist wrote:
I have never seen anything like it either. Although they leaned toward Clinton it wasn’t all out worship and trying to cover up for his mistakes and lies. Frankly it’s bizarre.
Lily wrote:
Hmmm, maybe I can sell some Exorcise the White House bumper stickers?
Rodan wrote:
Yep. But remember that halo they keep trying to put up around his head is showing some burnt out light bulbs in my opinion.
@ Lily:
let’s not underestimate the hold he has. I think we will win, but let’s not take it for granted. It’s very difficult to overthrow a Pharaoh!
brookly red wrote:
@ Lily:
It really is.
The NY Times broke the Whitewater story, after all.
Think they would do anything similar to Obama?
Rodan wrote:
not if you have a good helper
@ Rodan:
I don’t under-estimate him at all. I will not breathe a good *sigh* till he IS ACTUALLY voted out. No telling what is up his sleeve.
ahhhhhh
belly full
momcat, the girl and I just finished eating us some chik-fil-a
mmm,mmm good
place has been slammed for the last two days
I go by one 3-4 times a day and the place has been jamming
drive-thru out to the street and not a parking place to be had
and still fast service
Lily wrote:
I think I’d wait until January 20th, personally.
He’ll be able to pull all sorts of crap in the meantime.
lobo91 wrote:
well they are trapped in their own devise… if they did they would be racist. but the MSM is taking a beating, the prez of CNN resigned today.
@ Lily:
we have to fight!
@ lobo91:
He will declare himself a god like Caligula and name Bo a Senator!
Rodan wrote:
what ever happened to Caligula?
lobo91 wrote:
No they wouldn’t. Frankly I have seen little in the press about Fast and Furious and NOTHING in the press about him shutting down all these coal plants (which he will do soon). In fact there is nothing negative about obama in the press unless it is a letter to the editor and then the newspaper counter acts those with pro-obama letters to the editor.
@ brookly red:
Was overthrown and killed.
@ Rodan:
Yes we do. Every chance I get I tell people how important it is for them to vote in this election. It really is a game changer in our history.
@ rain of lead:
We need to support Chick-Fil-A
brookly red wrote:
Noticed that and Newsweek is going down. Apparently a lot of people are just not buying the crap they are trying to shove down our throats.
@ brookly red:
I don’t think most of what we know as the MSM will be around much longer, honestly. Print newspapers and news magazines are quickly becoming obsolete, and the three major broadcast networks would love to pull the plug on their news divisions. Network news has always been a money loser for them, and it’s one they really can’t afford to keep carrying.
The cable news outlets will still be there, since they actually make money (well, except for MSNBC).
@ Lily:
we have to get as many people possible to vote. We need to remove this Pharoanic/Satanic Regime.
lobo91 wrote:
Yep that is the scary part even if he is voted out he has time to still do damage.
It seems that every day brings a new outrage and a fresh example of societal decay and media malfeasance.
I need an iPhone app to keep up with it.
@ Lily:
The whole concept of weekly news magazines is obsolete.
Why would anyone pay to get a magazine in the mail that tells you what happened last week, when you probably heard about it on your iPhone 10 minutes after it happened?
Rodan wrote:
I have noticed a lot of people who have never talked about politics talk politics and they aren’t happy with this president at all. But I’m in a State that will probably go to Romney. But even in Texas I have heard some not good things about obama.
Rodan wrote:
Every presidential election is characterized as “the most important of our lifetimes”. Simply put, this one really is.
lobo91 wrote:
Not only that but with extreme bias leaning towards one direction and not actually reporting the real news..but just full of leftists opinions that make no sense at all.
So the bust of Churchill,,,WH claiming it never gave it back. Hmmm, they sneak in a knock-off or did some proggie Brits help them sneak it back in?
MacDuff wrote:
To be honest I have never felt other elections as being extremely important to our country as I do with this one. (Yes I have voted in all Presidental elections) but this one have a way different feel.
Never underestimate the evil of ManBearPig.
meanwhile drudge averages over 30,000,000 hits a day… 30 MILLION.
there are a lot of people who don’t do MSM
waldensianspirit wrote:
Has it been out for cleaning for 3 1/2 years?
brookly red wrote:
wait what am I saying… 30M a day drudge IS MSM my bad.
rain of lead wrote:
Says a WHOLE LOT about how people really feel and not just the fringe elements. People are tired of the fringe elements telling us how to feel, talk, react and shoving their agenda down our throats. PC crap is coming to a head.
waldensianspirit wrote:
/look closer thats Lenin…
Lily wrote:
not to mention what to eat
@ lobo91:
@ brookly red:
Good ones!
MacDuff wrote:
Decay of Western Civ? We’ve got an App for that!
Hmm…next year’s NRA Annual Meetings will be in Houston. Have to see if I can make it this time. Phoenix 2009 was a blast.
Indianapolis in 2014, Nashville 2015, Louisville 2016.
Definite southern trend there…
@ waldensianspirit:
Wait it’s back? If obama somehow wins will it disappear again?
EBL wrote:
OMG! I am outta beer! oh the horror!
bbiab
lobo91 wrote:
Personally, the concept of newspapers is, as well. My local paper is available in electronic form and is free with my subscription. The only reason we get it at all is my wife’s insistence on clinging to some sort of tradition of “the morning paper”. As for me, the only time I touch it is when I put it in the recycle bin.
@ brookly red:
Forgot about that..yeah people are sick to death of others telling them what to drink and eat.
@ Lily:
White House Now Claims It Never Gave Churchill Bust Back To The British…
So no one could confirm all this time? Weirdness afoot
@ MacDuff:
Yup, we never had a Pharaonic/god-king/Cult of Presonality/Caligula style President.
@ lobo91:
Been to Reno in 2001, caught a bit of the Phoenix one but I had to travel on business that week so my time was limited even though it was in my town.
I’ll have to try to make Houston next year.
@ MacDuff:
I read my local paper for local news. I have to pay extra to get it on the internet. Not going to happen and I told them that. I already pay for the paper not going to pay extra to get it on the net. Period and told them if I already pay for the paper I should get it free on the net.
I think local papers will be safe because of local news.
@ waldensianspirit:
Sounding kind of shady to me …so what do the British have to say I wonder?
waldensianspirit wrote:
Obama just had Mooch stick it in a broom closet somewhere so he didn’t have to look at that evil raaaaacist British Imperialist.
brookly red wrote:
Dear heavens …. the world may end!!!!!!!1 OMGPONIES!!!!!!!!!!
The Osprey wrote:
Yeah right..hmmmmmm not buying it one bit. Man they really are trying to walk this one back.
@ waldensianspirit:
So it took him three and a half years to figure this out? And they try to say Obama is brilliant?
waldensianspirit wrote:
This comment on that article- ROFLMAO
lobo91 wrote:
Louisville isn’t all that southern; we just pretend to be when it suits us.
BTW, we the have the Street Rod Nationals coming next weekend -- I’ve already seen a couple and by Monday we’ll be crawling in street rods, everywhere you look. I’ve already bought tickets and I’ll be posting pics on my site.
brookly red wrote:
Hmmmmm you might be right.
lobo91 wrote:
We should try and turn that into a regional Blogmocker convention. Dolphin and Calo are down there. It’s only about 3.5 hours away from me. We could probably get a few others to make it in.
Our tax dollars at work:
Boy, it’s sure a good thing we didn’t tell al Qaeda about this discovery!
//
@ The Osprey:
@ huckfunn:
Too bad they won’t let Leia in.
She enjoys gun shows.
huckfunn wrote:
I was thinking the same thing..there are others in Houston too that post here. I’m only 2 hours away myself.
Lily wrote:
I saw where the Times-Picayune was now longer going to publish as a daily paper. That’s one of the older papers in the country.
Chucky Schmucky (Schumer, not Johnson) is at it again, the douchebag!
Dem Senators try and sneak gun control amendment into “cyber security” bill.
@ MacDuff:
Well the bigger papers are failing. You would think they would get the hint that what they are putting out people are sick of hearing.
/I still like to read my paper…like your wife does.
@ Lily:
It’s May 3-5
Lily wrote:
“at the core of liberalism is the spoiled child- miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill disciplined, despotic, and useless. liberalsism is the philosophy of sniveling brats.” p.j. o’rourke.
@ lobo91:
I think it is doable. We have a lot of Texans who post here.
Am I the only one from Louisiana though? Just a thought.
lobo91 wrote:
Leia is coming back as blog mascot!!!! *snoopy happy dance^
@ The Osprey:
I saw that. It’ll never pass. If it did all it would do is hand the Senate to the Republicans because it’ll never pass the House. Schumer is an idiot.
yenta-fada wrote:
{Yenta} Tend to agree they do throw temper tantraums.
@ lobo91:
I know you are coming back to the States in August…First of August, mid-August or at the end of August?
The Osprey wrote:
They’re just looking for a campaign issue, because they know there’s not a chance in hell it would pass the House, even if it got through the Senate (which it probably wouldn’t).
I can see the ads now: “The Republicans in the House decided to bow to their masters in the gun lobby and vote in favor of mass murder!”
lobo91 wrote:
Sounds about right. The thing is they are so predicable it is easy to know what they will put out.
The Osprey wrote:
There really should be public stocks; one personalized with Schumer’s name on it
So what they are having a hard time defining what a terroist group is now?
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/07/27/unreal-eu-says-it-doesnt-have-enough-tangible-evidence-hezbollah-is-a-terrorist-group/
lobo91 wrote:
Bring Leia, your shades and a white cane. The rest of us will vouch for you.
Lily wrote:
Well that’s right. Maybe we could get TFK to make the trek down from North Texas. I’ll bet we could come up with 10 or so pretty easy.
@ waldensianspirit:
Or, at the very least, congresscritters wearing t-shirts that reveal who gives them bribes…er, campaign donations.
@ Lily:
Well, they probably asked them if they were a terrorist group, which, of course, they denied.
And they don’t want to call them liars, of course. That would be racist.
Or something.
@ lobo91:
But it plays the other way too: the Democrats are coming for your guns! Given that a majority of Americans support the Second Amendment, I think the Democrats lose on that one. It is another issue to drive independents into Romney’s camp.
yenta-fada wrote:
Sort of like NASCAR drivers…
Lily wrote:
In other breaking news, water is wet and people are stupid.
@ lobo91:
http://js-kit.com/blob/x43u7pV9LNKJ2rFslYD2MB.jpg
@ huckfunn:
There is a few on DOD too that are near or around Houston also.
@ Iron Fist:
Of course, Schumer made sure to say that wasn’t the case. They just want “reasonable” restrictions, of course.
//Yeah, right
@ lobo91:
When I think of the word “smarmy”, I see Schumer’s face.
Gun Violence.
In my area it looks like all gangs shooting each other. I say let them bleed out. Put the $$$ care into educating the kids and parents in the area to respect each other. Put the dunce hat on the gang members, start to restrict the freedoms of gang members.
The Brady bill will be surprised if they ever implement their gun ban that the gun violence expanded.
MacDuff wrote:
Ditto
lobo91 wrote:
I would laugh if it really wasn’t the truth. That is probably what went on.
Lily wrote:
well they sure spent a lot on security for just a hunch…
I read a cop in charge saying that civilians didn’t need certain types of weapons. I would reply that civilians should be just as well armed as the non civilian police. The police should be buying all their weapons off the local store rack.
yenta-fada wrote:
Bingo!
@ 151 Iron Fist: someone should force obamas hand on his gun control thoughts. he is just low keying the issue to get votes, and will upgrade it if re elected
@ darkwords:
The “parents” are mostly a lost cause.
Take the kids away and put them in decent homes, and you might be able to salvage some of them, though.
darkwords wrote:
Why? Where my son buys his guns he gets a discount..but he can buy any gun for someone else if he wants. They sell to the public too..just can’t buy the police stuff like badges, uniforms you know stuff like that.
@ darkwords:
A police chief in a major city?
They aren’t cops. They’re bureaucrats who wear uniforms. Nobody (including most rank and file cops) gives a crap about their opinions on guns.
darkwords wrote:
I wonder if there is a correlating map of where the Ten Commandments have been eliminated
@ brookly red:
Oh dear …. you got back safely from the beer run!
Lily wrote:
yeah you have to go on line for that…
Lily wrote:
this is nyc the store is down the block…
lobo91 wrote:
Excatly!!! There is a huge disconnect between the cops and the brass..the brass are political animals ….the cops can handle the criminals and their job..but the political animals are a huge burden on them. Trust me.
@ brookly red:
Most people would be amazed at what you can buy online.
Like every piece of equipment to outfit a police car, for one thing.
@ brookly red:
Yeah I know. Been there. Just kidding you!
@ brookly red:
Pretty soon, we won’t be able to use the word “terrorist” in polite company; we’ll call it “the T word”.
@ brookly red:
Yep that is the bad thing.
lobo91 wrote:
It’s too bad that projects like ‘Outward Bound’ are so expensive. When you put kids in a position where they have to learn true self-reliance as well as teamwork, it would be a start in understanding life.
Need a light bar for that used police car you bought at the auction?
MacDuff wrote:
I am one step ahead… I just use the M word.
MacDuff wrote:
Well you can’t be insensitive to terroists they have feelings too.
/moonbat mode here.
@ Lily:
Not when I get through with them, they don’t…
//
@ lobo91:
Looks like you are getting out of the ME at a good time. From Debka:
Kuwait to receive 60 US advanced Patriots
The Pentagon announced Thursday the sale of 60 Patriot advanced capability (PAC-3) missiles, 20 launching stations, four radar systems and control stations worth $4.2 billion to upgrade Kuwaits air and missile defenses against a potential Iranian threat.
lobo91 wrote:
darkwords wrote:
The powers that be determining what people “need” is getting friggin’ annoying. Americans shouldn’t be satisfied with sating “needs”, we’re about sating “WANTS”. A-holes.
yenta-fada wrote:
facepalm… OK so now they know, fire 60 blanks and put the nuke on 61… priceless.
Sitting on the couch watching the oepning ceremony of the Olympics. Yeah, there is nothing else on this side of the pond.
Oh, joined the NRA last week.
@ yenta-fada:
If I were a little higher up, I’d be able to see Iran from my living room window on a clear day.
OK, Cuban missile Crisis the re-mix, by DJ Zero…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/27/russia-seeks-naval-base-abroad
@ brookly red:
The Kuwaitis (and the US forces here) have plenty of Patriots on hand to deal with the Iranian missiles if they get frisky. That’s just an upgrade.
lobo91 wrote:
You really need to get outta there……..
lobo91 wrote:
I am sure they do but I am just snarking
@ MacDuff:
It’s about 35 miles, straight line.
lobo91 wrote:
moon them for me would you…
Well, it’s way past my bedtime.
Later, all…
@ lobo91:
Nite lobo!
Buckeye Abroad wrote:
Mooch at the Olympics. It’s all about her.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/-C0bXtKL89wo/UBK5bw1TK_I/AAAAAAAAj-M/A7miEi0bO28/s1600-h/mo%252520breakfast%252520with%252520the%252520team%25255B2%25255D.jpg
lobo91 wrote:
Later, lobo.
Good night in Georiga! Really? Words fail me.
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/07/27/no-joke-obama-backs-plan-to-ensure-schools-dont-discipline-black-students-more-than-white-kids/
that’s the funny thing about the internet… I can talk in real time to someone I never met half way round the world but I can’t reach my congress-critter down the block.
@ yenta-fada:
It’s always about her. :eyeroll:
@ brookly red:
Strange isn’t it.
“African Americans lack equal access to highly effective teachers and principals, safe schools, and challenging college-preparatory classes, and they disproportionately experience school discipline,” said the order, titled “White House Initiative On Educational Excellence.”
maybe he needs to talk with the teachers union or something?
brookly red wrote:
We are actually listening to you. Big diff.
yenta-fada wrote:
how much did that cost us?
yenta-fada wrote:
@ brookly red:
Yeah …really talk to the damn teacher unions. I like the part where no matter what the behavior they can’t be disciplined …
Congress busy:
http://www.jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/China-Uniforms.jpg
Just saw that the big boss of CNN quit his job.
Now why would any one leave a growing successful rag tag bunch of commie know nothing nit wits who get to lick commie Democrats boots such as King of Bull Shit Obama.
Man what a deal he will miss out on.
Must be that they can not lie their ratings up like they lie up Obama’s record of out of control spending a tax hikes.
Lily wrote:
occupy skool! yes we can!
brookly red wrote:
You’ll NEVER know. Throw in the entourage, security, shopping, grand luxe hotels and restaurants…..PRICELESS!!
brookly red wrote:
Yep!!! They can bring a knife to school a white student brings an tylenol for a headache..they will have to be disciplined the same. I get it.
Sounds so fair.
/not.
Maybe I am just a nutjob, but does anyone else here think he cringes at the name WHITE house? I think he would change it if he could.
yenta-fada wrote:
Sickening to tell the truth. How many friends did she bring too?
NoThreat2U wrote:
{NT2U}…oh he cringes.
Lily wrote:
friends? oh please spare me even Bo can’t stand her.
NoThreat2U wrote:
{NoThreat} Now it’s officially happy hour!
@ brookly red:
Oh she is tight with Jarrett. Just sayin.
NoThreat2U wrote:
fundamentally
brookly red wrote:
I am waiting for the headline… 1st dog attacks first bitch, secret service defends, hooker wounded.
@ yenta-fada:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGQt6GY8nKA&feature=player_embedded
Lily wrote:
ValJar, the mother Mooch never had. lol
Bowgate continues…
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/07/27/will-us-dip-american-flag-at-olympic-ceremony/
@ brookly red:
First dog and first bitch….redundancy?
yenta-fada wrote:
no… do we need to do the birds and bees thing here?
brookly red wrote:
No I think most of us got that already.
brookly red wrote:
Emily Latella/Gilda Radner *never mind*
@ yenta-fada:
{{{Lily}}} More like Misery Hour for me. Got drained again yesterday. I swear it sucks the life out of me. Finally founf our why my nails are so long,as is my hair……it is from the protein being sapped from my body. Tired all the damn time. So if I evr just sign off….dont take it personal…just got a little too tired. But the happy NT2U wants to be lounging in a pool right now. Gotta find a reason to get outside today, very nice weather.
brookly red wrote:
@ brookly red:
They really are going to do this and violate U.S. Flag code. They really hate our flag don’t they. This is disgracefull. As ususal.
@ NoThreat2U:
nice weather is a reason? no?
@ NoThreat2U:
Sorry to hear it is taking so much out of you. Hang in there. {NT2U}!
Prayers up to you as always.
So that is why you growing long hair and nails. My nails have always been hard as nails. Hair doesn’t grow all that much same ole same since I was young!
Lily wrote:
…and the republic for which it stands, one nation under GOD indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Yes they hate it, damn them.
@ NoThreat2U:
At least you got nice weather. It’s either HOT or raining here.
We have had over 11 inches of rain this month.
brookly red wrote:
Yes I agree …damn them.
@ NoThreat2U:
I agree with brookly. Being outside in nature is restorative. Sorry to hear that you are so sick and miserable. Truly, you know I mean that.
@ Lily:
the US stopped dipping the flag when it refused to do so for Hitler at the ’39 games. It isn’t just flag protocol here.
@ Lily:
I’ll haave to post you a picture of my nails on facebook. My claws are deadly. lol
There’s an update from the Brits confirming Churchill was returned
@ brookly red:
It’s no fun just sitting outback all by myself…..unless I had a pool to float in
Lily wrote:
Quit yer braggin’, I’ve been up early every morning for weeks to water the grass and it’s still dying. I got may car washed and waxed yesterday, so that should bring on at least a little rain
@ NoThreat2U:
No it isn’t…but our damn commie president seems to think it should be dipped.
I can imagine..I just cut mine last night. They are hard to cut because they are so hard. I can only let them get so long before they interfere with everyday things. Plus they grow back fast. My hair grows sllllllooooowwwwww.
@ NoThreat2U:
I’m sure I’m not alone in wanting to reach through the screen to help. Seriously, you’re good peeps.
@ Lily:
We were preparing to take shelter in the baement here yesterday. Had a very nice storm!
@ yenta-fada:
I do know you truly mean it.
MacDuff wrote:
Anther update: WH says Oops
ht wz
MacDuff wrote:
Ditto from me too.
waldensianspirit wrote:
He (obama) asked for it back for political reasons and because Romney said something about bring the bust of Churchill back to the White House.
What a loser bho is.
I wonder why
@ Lily:
I’m trying to use BIG clippers but they wont wrap around the nail! loTook a little off the tops though…this is gonna be a process. lol
@ MacDuff:
I like you a lot too. Your are always reasonable and dont jump into the silly wars we have amongst ourselves….you just walk away for a bit. I like when you pop up on facebook too 
How sweet of you
waldensianspirit wrote:
No urban legend…that is obama’s past you are talking about. The Brits confirm obama returned the bust to them. What a damn den of liars the obama administration are.
I know that there are a a lot of people that will take exception to several points, but this is really a rousing piece by Condoleezza Rice.
US must recall it is not just any country
We’re not just “any country” and Obama’s belief that we are is central to his abject failure as a president.
@ NoThreat2U:
Oh yeah I have to use huge clippers!!
NoThreat2U wrote:
I can’t do pissin’ contests…..bad prostate.
Gotta get outta here, you be good (but not too good!)
@ MacDuff:
I agree with her we are not just *any* country..no matter how obama wants us to be.
little joke from the ‘net
“I was in Lake Havasu City, Arizona….and I saw a bumper sticker on a parked car that read ‘I miss Chicago’.
So I broke a window, stole the radio and left a note that read, ‘I hope this helps ………”
@ yenta-fada:
That’s a good one yenta.
Lily wrote:
the daily O outrage… it is bad enough that he bows, but our flag? he presumes to bow for us all? Mark my words he will regret this more that “you didn’t build that”.
@ yenta-fada:
That joke reminds me when my sons where younger. My oldest son went out of town for several weeks with my parents and my youngest son at dinner said he missed his brother. So I said, “You dummy, hey at least the cat knows what stupid is..etc.” He said thanks mom but it just isn’t the same as when my brother does it.
@ MacDuff:
I’ll never give up my darker side. lol Good one about the pissin’ contests. lol
brookly red wrote:
I pray for that to happen. Dipping our Flag. He doesn’t know what a patriot is.
@ NoThreat2U:
I’m trying not to do that anymore.
@ Lily:
Uhhhh..wrong song. Should have listened through it all first.
Lily wrote:
you can never go wrong with zevon.
I’ll make up for it with this song.
@ Lily:
If someone is purposely trying to piss me off i will fight to the death to humiliate them and prove my point.
Hell yes.
@ coldwarrior:
Thanks CW! But that wasn’t the song I was thinking of.
NoThreat2U wrote:
Well we do have something in common.
@ coldwarrior:
Or this one….
Wrong link… maybe I’ll get it…. this time. CW for you….
Lily wrote:
@ NoThreat2U:
{NT2U} Probably is.
@ Lily:
My bro is having somewhat of a hard time being retired from the Marines. He isn’t mental or anything like that…he just misses what his uniform stands for. He is still fighting the good fight in a different way but he sure did love his 25+ in the Corps.
@ NoThreat2U:
I sure he is. Different type of fight. May God Bless him for his service to our country and that he manages to make the transcition to civilian life.
@ Lily:
I will pass that on to him. Thank you.
NoThreat2U wrote:
transition from the meritocracy to shitheadworld is very frustrating
@ Lily:
My husband works with guys who were Marines…once a Marine always a Marine he says.
Lily wrote:
i always thing of that song
@ coldwarrior:
It is a very odd song. Posted another song upthread for you the Hard Corp song.
@ coldwarrior:
I can tell. We often wondered how he was gonna handle it. I guess he got a life insurance policy for 86 bucks a month. His wife called him while he was away and told him the insurance company cut his rate in HALF because due to his his health. They said at age 47 he has the body of a 20 year old. He is BIG TIME into health and fitness and it sure paid off for him.
@ Lily:
That is soooooo very true.
new thread………………pre oot
@ NoThreat2U:
hey chick
ya wanna chat here or move upthread?
I’ve got a minute or two before I have to go to my 2nd job