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The differences between the 2004 and 2012 elections

by Speranza ( 175 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Elections 2012, George W. Bush, Politics, Republican Party at July 30th, 2012 - 3:00 pm

I think the main difference between 2004 and 2012 is that Barack Obama is such a radical politician (not a conventional liberal) that the stakes are so enormous.  The troika (or Axis of Evil)  of Obama-Pelosi-Reid needs to be broken up and hanging over the nation like a Sword of Damocles looms “Obamacare”..

by Michael Barone

Does the 2012 campaign look a lot like the 2004 campaign? Many Democrats think so.

And there are some resemblances. As in 2004, current polling suggests a close race and shows only about a dozen states in contention.

As in 2004, the incumbent has been running negative ads against the challenger, hoping to disqualify him as Bill Clinton disqualified Bob Dole in 1996. Many Democrats think that Barack Obama’s attacks on Mitt Romney’s business career will have the same effect that they think the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads had on John Kerry in 2004.

But, as William Galston of the Brookings Institution, an alumnus of the Clinton White House, writes in The New Republic, “the evidence in favor of all these propositions is remarkably thin.”

Galston points out that in 2004 no single issue was as prominent as the economy is this year and that on most significant issues George W. Bush had a clear edge by the end of the campaign. He cites polling evidence that the Swift Boat ads hurt Kerry less than did Bush ads replaying his March statement that “I did actually vote for the $87 billion before I voted against it.”

Also, he points out that many more voters this year think the nation is seriously off on the wrong track and that the economy is in trouble. Obama’s job rating now is weaker than Bush’s was then.

Galston, as usual, is on target. His analysis tracks with the statement of Democratic pollster Peter Hart (for whom I worked from 1974 to 1981) that Obama’s chances are “no better than 50 percent.”

But there are at least two other salient differences between 2004 and 2012.

[......]

In the preceding four congressional elections, Republicans won between 48 and 51 percent of the popular vote for the House and Democrats won between 46 and 49 percent. In 2004 the parties’ percentages in both the presidential and congressional popular vote were within the same narrow ranges.

Since then, voting behavior has been much more volatile. In the last three congressional elections, Republicans’ share of the House popular vote has ranged from 43 to 52 percent and Democrats’ share from 45 to 54 percent.

In 2004, only three states cast their electoral votes for a different party than in 2000, and the margins were narrow in all cases.

In other words, almost all voters in 2004 were firmly committed to one party or the other. Bush political supremo Karl Rove was right in saying there were few uncommitted voters and that his campaign’s big task was to turn out the faithful. The Kerry campaign operated on the same assumption.

[........]

The conventional wisdom is that we know with certainty the identity of the dozen or so battleground states. But the list has changed since 2008.

In 2008, Obama carried Indiana and lost Missouri by only 3,903 votes. Today, Indiana and Missouri aren’t on anyone’s target list.

In contrast, most analysts’ battleground list this year includes Michigan and Wisconsin, which Obama carried in 2008 with 57 and 56 percent of the vote.

[........]

Cultural conservatives supported the Bush tax cuts. Few economic conservatives had much problem with Bush’s stands on abortion or embryonic stem cell research.

Barack Obama’s Democratic base is more heterogeneous. He probably increased turnout among young voters by endorsing same-sex marriage. But he risked turning off the many black voters who are solidly opposed.

Blocking the Keystone XL oil pipeline from Canada pleased gentry liberals who embrace every green cause. But private-sector labor unions don’t like it a bit.

Bashing Romney’s record at Bain and Co. may be helping him with some modest-income voters. But it risks antagonizing the affluent, which is a problem for a candidate who last time ran even, 49 to 49 percent, among those with incomes over $100,000.

Every campaign cycle is different, and 2012 is more different from 2004 than many Democrats think.

Read the rest - 2012 Campaign Very Different Than Kerry vs. Bush

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175 Responses to “The differences between the 2004 and 2012 elections”
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  1. darkwords
    1 | July 30, 2012 3:08 pm

    Obama tries to apply charisma to get votes. He is skilled at hiding his convictions and duping people into voting for him. Black voters will still vote for him.


  2. darkwords
    2 | July 30, 2012 3:17 pm

    Florida, Missouri, Ohio, and Virginia Independents targeted to get them to decide. The game is on. It’s happening now.


  3. 3 | July 30, 2012 3:37 pm

    Many Democrats think hope and pray (yeah they pray, hell they’d probably sacrifice a chicken if they thought it would help) that Barack Obama’s attacks on Mitt Romney’s business career will have the same effect that they think the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads had on John Kerry in 2004.

    Fixed!


  4. 4 | July 30, 2012 3:40 pm

    @ darkwords:

    Missouri’s Barbara Spurlock, 78, voted for Obama last time but is unhappy with him now. However, she won’t be voting for Romney, telling the Post, “I’m not a Mormon, for one thing.”

    What the hell does that have to do with anything? They really pick the dumbest people to quote.


  5. buzzsawmonkey
    5 | July 30, 2012 3:49 pm

    Kafir wrote:

    Many Democrats think hope and pray (yeah they pray, hell they’d probably sacrifice a chicken if they thought it would help) that Barack Obama’s attacks on Mitt Romney’s business career will have the same effect that they think the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads had on John Kerry in 2004.

    What do you think the Chick-Fil-A hoo-hah is all about?


  6. MikeA
    6 | July 30, 2012 3:52 pm

    @ Kafir:

    sometimes I wonder if we should have a test for voting. Its probably why it used to be limited to land owners.


  7. 7 | July 30, 2012 3:55 pm

    @ Kafir:
    Religious bigot, don’t you know. The MFM would call someone who said that they wouldn’t vote for a Mohammedan that, but Romney is a Republican. They’ll be pandering to the bigots something fierce this election. Obama won’t himself, but his surrogates will.


  8. buzzsawmonkey
    8 | July 30, 2012 3:57 pm

    MikeA wrote:

    sometimes I wonder if we should have a test for voting. Its probably why it used to be limited to land owners.

    That was what poll taxes (“poll” means “head,” as in “head count”) and literacy tests were theoretically supposed to do. Problem was, both literacy tests and poll taxes were unequally applied on a racial basis; the black would-be voter got the 15-page literacy test, or the higher poll tax, and the white voter got the one-page short-form literacy test or the ultra-low poll tax. So both these things went by the board.


  9. buzzsawmonkey
    9 | July 30, 2012 3:59 pm

    Kafir wrote:

    Missouri’s Barbara Spurlock, 78, voted for Obama last time but is unhappy with him now. However, she won’t be voting for Romney, telling the Post, “I’m not a Mormon, for one thing.”

    I’d vote for a Marmon over a Chevy Volt…


  10. MikeA
    10 | July 30, 2012 4:03 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    I understand that from history but sometimes I wonder. We try to educate ourselves on the issues and then some idiot gets the same vote as me. Guess I know some educated people who are died in the wool liberals so it all balances out… ;)


  11. Lily
    11 | July 30, 2012 4:05 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I would rather vote for a Mormon than a man (who is in the White House now) that really doesn’t seem to have any religion and the Church he did attend for 20 years was very racist. Some say obama is muslim, some say he is an atheist. One thing for sure he does lean towards Islam and just about hates all other religions.
    /but the woman will not vote for a mormon.


  12. Speranza
    12 | July 30, 2012 4:09 pm

    Kafir wrote:

    @ darkwords:
    Missouri’s Barbara Spurlock, 78, voted for Obama last time but is unhappy with him now. However, she won’t be voting for Romney, telling the Post, “I’m not a Mormon, for one thing.”

    What the hell does that have to do with anything? They really pick the dumbest people to quote.

    They sure do.


  13. buzzsawmonkey
    13 | July 30, 2012 4:10 pm

    MikeA wrote:

    I understand that from history but sometimes I wonder. We try to educate ourselves on the issues and then some idiot gets the same vote as me. Guess I know some educated people who are died in the wool liberals so it all balances out…

    All sorts of idiots get to vote; that’s what voting is about. You tally up the idiots and see which side has the greater number. People cannot, and should not, be prevented from voting merely because they are idiots, despite—especially because of—their being “idiots,” because everyone is an idiot to somebody else.

    BTW, it’s “dyed in the wool,” not “died”—that is, dyed (colored) before the thread is spun or the garment woven, hence the hue is more deeply ingrained than if the garment were dyed after being completed. Sorry to be pedantic, but it’s important to know what these pat phrases actually refer to.


  14. Speranza
    14 | July 30, 2012 4:12 pm

    John Kerry has been a Senator since the Civil war (it seems) and I wonder what bit of legislation has he ever had become law?


  15. Speranza
    15 | July 30, 2012 4:13 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    All sorts of idiots get to vote; that’s what voting is about. You tally up the idiots and see which side has the greater number. People cannot, and should not, be prevented from voting merely because they are idiots, despite—especially because of—their being “idiots,” because everyone is an idiot to somebody else.

    Speaking of idiot quotas -- lowering the voting age to 18 allowed more idiots to vote.


  16. buzzsawmonkey
    16 | July 30, 2012 4:14 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Speaking of idiot quotas – lowering the voting age to 18 just allowed more idiots to vote.

    Yes. It was an attempt to buy off the unrest over the draft during the Vietnam war, pure and simple.


  17. Lily
    17 | July 30, 2012 4:14 pm

    Although the British Embassy has said the Churchill Bust was returned to them they double down on it and say this. ? Are they insane?

    White House: Churchill Bust Story Is a “Myth” From The “Darker Corners of The Internet”…

    Via Beltway Confidential:

    White House Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest admitted that the story about the Churchill was starting to sound like “a bad Sherlock Holmes script,” jokingly calling it the “case of the missing Churchill bust.”

    Earnest called the story a “myth” that was “floating around in some of the darker corners of the internet,” and added that the White House decided to set the record straight on Friday with a blogpost by Dan Pfeiffer. That blogpost, however mislead some to believe that the Churchill bust that was loaned to President George W. Bush was still in the White House.

    http://weaselzippers.blogspot.com/2012/07/white-house-churchill-bust-story-is.html


  18. buzzsawmonkey
    18 | July 30, 2012 4:18 pm

    @ Lily:

    Obama is a modern-day Orpheus, who can charm the birds out of the trees. And, like Orpheus, he plays the liar.


  19. Lily
    19 | July 30, 2012 4:18 pm

    I don’t this election 2012 is going to be like 2012…

    Conservative filmmaker behind ‘2016: Obama’s America’ says he ‘learned some lessons’ from Michael Moore, prepares for wide release

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/07/30/conservative-filmmaker-behind-2016-obamas-america-says-learned-some-lessonsfrom/?intcmp=features#ixzz228gMWrTd


  20. Guggi
    20 | July 30, 2012 4:19 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Speaking of idiot quotas – lowering the voting age to 18 allowed more idiots to vote.

    Be happy with 18 -- in Austria voting age is 16 (!) but on the other side you get your driving licence only with 18. So we have teenagers who are allowed to vote but not to drive a car/bike.


  21. Lily
    21 | July 30, 2012 4:19 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    All the lies and the MSM never calls him out on them. I keep wondering when these lies will catch up with him. Hopefully very soon.


  22. Speranza
    22 | July 30, 2012 4:20 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    Speaking of idiot quotas – lowering the voting age to 18 just allowed more idiots to vote.

    Yes. It was an attempt to buy off the unrest over the draft during the Vietnam war, pure and simple.

    If it were up to me I would raise the voting age to 24 (exceptions for those in the military or law enforcement).


  23. Speranza
    23 | July 30, 2012 4:22 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    Be happy with 18 – in Austria voting age is 16 (!) but on the other side you get your driving licence only with 18. So we have teenagers who are allowed to vote but not to drive a car/bike

    Of course 16 year olds really are worldly and experienced. //


  24. Lily
    24 | July 30, 2012 4:23 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    All sorts of idiots get to vote; that’s what voting is about. You tally up the idiots and see which side has the greater number. People cannot, and should not, be prevented from voting merely because they are idiots, despite—especially because of—their being “idiots,” because everyone is an idiot to somebody else.

    Speaking of idiot quotas – lowering the voting age to 18 allowed more idiots to vote.

    Sure but when I was 18 I was a hecka of lot more mature than 18 year olds of today. Today kids have regressed … I had a job and had been working since I was 15. I wasn’t real political but I did vote and it wasn’t just for the democrats. Even at 18 I knew what stupid was. Now days not sure. Seems like kids don’t mature until they get in their 20′s and mid-twenties at that.


  25. Lily
    25 | July 30, 2012 4:25 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    Speaking of idiot quotas – lowering the voting age to 18 just allowed more idiots to vote.

    Yes. It was an attempt to buy off the unrest over the draft during the Vietnam war, pure and simple.

    If it were up to me I would raise the voting age to 24 (exceptions for those in the military or law enforcement).

    Even at 24 you would still get the stupid. You would be surprised that some of these 18 year olds and 20 years olds are rather conservative. I’m not talking about OWS’ers. Or those put on TV.


  26. Speranza
    26 | July 30, 2012 4:25 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Sure but when I was 18 I was a hecka of lot more mature than 18 year olds of today. Today kids have regressed … I had a job and had been working since I was 15. I wasn’t real political but I did vote and it wasn’t just for the democrats. Even at 18 I knew what stupid was. Now days not sure. Seems like kids don’t mature until they get in their 20′s and mid-twenties at that.

    When I was 18 I was a conservative and automatically more mature (politically) then most 18 year olds, yet I knew nothing about work and economics.


  27. buzzsawmonkey
    27 | July 30, 2012 4:25 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    If it were up to me I would raise the voting age to 24 (exceptions for those in the military or law enforcement).

    Add two more years to the base voting age for each degree held in “Gender Studies” or “Race Theory.”


  28. 28 | July 30, 2012 4:25 pm

    @ Speranza:

    That great Conservative Republican Richard M Nixon supported lowering the voting age.


  29. Speranza
    29 | July 30, 2012 4:26 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Add two more years to the base voting age for each degree held in “Gender Studies” or “Race Theory.”

    Sociology, Woman’s Studies, and LGBT studies as well.


  30. buzzsawmonkey
    30 | July 30, 2012 4:26 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    That great Conservative Republican Richard M Nixon supported lowering the voting age.

    Again, he was trying to buy off the protesters against the draft.


  31. Speranza
    31 | July 30, 2012 4:27 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    That great Conservative Republican Richard M Nixon supported lowering the voting age.

    He was as much a conservative as John McCain.


  32. Speranza
    32 | July 30, 2012 4:27 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Rodan wrote:
    That great Conservative Republican Richard M Nixon supported lowering the voting age.

    Again, he was trying to buy off the protesters against the draft.

    When Nixon did away with the draft, the wind went out of the anti-war movement.


  33. Guggi
    33 | July 30, 2012 4:27 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Of course 16 year olds really are worldly and experienced. //

    It were the social democrats who pressed for lowering of the voting age b’cause they thought very young people would vote for them. On the contrary, they voted with vast majority for H.C. Strache from Haider’s party FPÖ.


  34. Speranza
    34 | July 30, 2012 4:29 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    It were the social democrats who pressed for lowering of the voting age b’cause they thought very young people would vote for them. On the contrary, they voted with vast majority for H.C. Strache from Haider’s party FPÖ.

    Young and dumb (they think) will vote Left.


  35. buzzsawmonkey
    35 | July 30, 2012 4:29 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    When Nixon did away with the draft, the wind went out of the anti-war movement.

    I had to worry about the draft. My brother, a few years younger than I, did not. He’s been a solid proggie all his adult life; I took a long detour, but finally came to my senses.


  36. Lily
    36 | July 30, 2012 4:29 pm

    @ Speranza:

    I knew a hell of lot about work and economics. I was filing my own taxes at that age. Dad made sure I knew how to do it. Plus I took 3 years of economics in school.


  37. 37 | July 30, 2012 4:30 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Or the Bush Clan!


  38. buzzsawmonkey
    38 | July 30, 2012 4:31 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    When Nixon did away with the draft, the wind went out of the anti-war movement.

    Also, when the anti-war movement died, that’s when the roaches of the Movement all skittered behind the stove of Academia.


  39. 39 | July 30, 2012 4:32 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Many Young people are Libertarian Right.


  40. Lily
    40 | July 30, 2012 4:32 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Guggi wrote:

    It were the social democrats who pressed for lowering of the voting age b’cause they thought very young people would vote for them. On the contrary, they voted with vast majority for H.C. Strache from Haider’s party FPÖ.

    Young and dumb (they think) will vote Left.

    The problem is they don’t always vote left. Trust me I’ve been around enough of them.


  41. 41 | July 30, 2012 4:33 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    I was never on the Left.


  42. 42 | July 30, 2012 4:33 pm

    @ Lily:

    See my #39.


  43. Lily
    43 | July 30, 2012 4:34 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:

    Many Young people are Libertarian Right.

    My son thought he was a Liberatarian and when he took a test he was completely conservative. Made me laugh.


  44. 44 | July 30, 2012 4:34 pm

    Republicans need to use image of the benefit of Capitalistism like vacations and good cars to attract the youth. Coming across like a bunch of angry scolds doesn’t help.


  45. 45 | July 30, 2012 4:36 pm

    @ Lily:

    There’s a blurry line between Conservatism and Libertarianism. Many people who are actually Conservative call themselves Libertarian. The reason is the media has create this image of Conservatives like angry grouchy old people. SO they say Libertarian because its cooler.


  46. buzzsawmonkey
    46 | July 30, 2012 4:37 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    I was never on the Left.

    “I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.”
    —Luke 15:7


  47. Lily
    47 | July 30, 2012 4:37 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    I was never on the Left.

    My youngest son …just barely touched on liberal for a bit and then spit it out not long after. I wouldn’t say he touched on leftist. Just touched a little bit on liberal. Didn’t last long.


  48. Lily
    48 | July 30, 2012 4:42 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Lily:

    There’s a blurry line between Conservatism and Libertarianism. Many people who are actually Conservative call themselves Libertarian. The reason is the media has create this image of Conservatives like angry grouchy old people. SO they say Libertarian because its cooler.

    My son has no problem he is conservative one bit. He just thought he was libertarian. My youngest son certainly doesn’t care if it is cool or not to be conservative. And both of them knew what obama was all about in 2008. I didn’t tell them …they rescearched for themselves.


  49. 49 | July 30, 2012 4:44 pm

    @ Lily:

    Hey wasn’t knocking you for being on the Left. Just I wasn’t one. I am glad you saw the Light.


  50. Lily
    50 | July 30, 2012 4:47 pm

    @ Rodan:

    Oh I was never leftist..at all. I just wasn’t really into politic’s at that young of an age..but I voted with my head not what people or the news told me how to vote.
    I’m very surprised how much my two sons are poltical. Both conservatives.

    Oh and I know you weren’t knocking me. ;)


  51. Lily
    51 | July 30, 2012 4:51 pm

    Israel may have a different take on it.

    White House: Romney Is Wrong, Jerusalem Is Not The Capital Of Israel…

    http://weaselzippers.blogspot.com/2012/07/white-house-romney-is-wrong-jerusalem.html


  52. waldensianspirit
    52 | July 30, 2012 5:08 pm

    @ Lily:
    They finally found something Romney is wrong about!!!!; Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel


  53. waldensianspirit
    53 | July 30, 2012 5:09 pm

    Who’d've ever thunk Jerusalem is the capitol


  54. Lily
    54 | July 30, 2012 5:13 pm

    Report: Obama Canceled Bin Laden Raid 3 Times On Advice of Valerie Jarrett…

    Via INN:

    At the urging of senior advisor Valerie Jarrett, President Barack Obama canceled the operation to kill Osama bin Laden on three separate occasions before finally approving the May 2, 2011 Navy SEAL mission, according to a new book scheduled for release August 21, The Daily Caller (DC) reported.

    In “Leading From Behind: The Reluctant President and the Advisors who Decide for Him,” Richard Miniter writes that Obama canceled the mission in January 2011, again in February, and a third time in March.

    Valerie Jarrett, a senior advisor and assistant to the president for Public Engagement and Intergovernmental Affairs, reportedly persuaded Obama to hold off each time, the book reveals, according to The DC.

    Miniter, a two-time New York Times best-selling author, cites an unnamed source with Joint Special Operations Command who had direct knowledge of the operation and its planning.

    Obama administration officials said after the raid that the president had delayed giving the order to kill the arch-terrorist the day before the operation was carried out, in what turned out to be his fourth moment of indecision.

    http://weaselzippers.blogspot.com/2012/07/report-obama-canceled-bin-laden-raid-3.html


  55. 55 | July 30, 2012 5:15 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Israel may have a different take on it.

    White House: Romney Is Wrong, Jerusalem Is Not The Capital Of Israel…

    http://weaselzippers.blogspot.com/2012/07/white-house-romney-is-wrong-jerusalem.html

    I have a feeling that’s precisely what Romney wanted them to do.


  56. waldensianspirit
    56 | July 30, 2012 5:17 pm

    Farmers in Fauquier County are planning to bring their pitchforks to an Aug. 2 hearing before the Board of Zoning Appeals to protest the arbitrary treatment of one of their own. On April 30, Zoning Administrator Kimberley Johnson sent Martha Boneta an official cease-and-desist notice for selling farm products and hosting a birthday party for her best friend’s 10-year-old daughter on her 70-acre Paris, Va., farm without a special administrative permit.

    Johnson threatened to fine Boneta $5,000 per violation if she did not stop the alleged unlawful activities within 30 days. In doing so, Boneta’s fellow farmers say, Johnson stepped far beyond her authority. They’re supporting her appeal before the BZA because they rightly fear that left unchecked, this infringement on one farmer’s freedom to make a living will spread to other agricultural enterprises like a dangerous pest.

    Farmers are great people!


  57. 57 | July 30, 2012 5:18 pm

    Charles Johnson is defending the Palestinian against Romney.


  58. Will Consult for Food
    58 | July 30, 2012 5:18 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Kafir wrote:

    Many Democrats think hope and pray (yeah they pray, hell they’d probably sacrifice a chicken if they thought it would help) that Barack Obama’s attacks on Mitt Romney’s business career will have the same effect that they think the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads had on John Kerry in 2004.

    What do you think the Chick-Fil-A hoo-hah is all about?

    Last weeks attempt at humor and the offer to eat a Chick-fil-a chicken biscuit in your name for a small donation was answered by one of my friends who lives on the West coast. She really sent me a check so I could eat one for her in protest.

    Gotta love her! And I’m going to honor my promise. Yum!


  59. 59 | July 30, 2012 5:18 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    Yup.


  60. Lily
    60 | July 30, 2012 5:19 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Israel may have a different take on it.

    White House: Romney Is Wrong, Jerusalem Is Not The Capital Of Israel…

    http://weaselzippers.blogspot.com/2012/07/white-house-romney-is-wrong-jerusalem.html

    I have a feeling that’s precisely what Romney wanted them to do.

    You know I didn’t think of it that way…let them double-down on stupid. Because they are still in lying mode over the Churchill Bust and double-downing on that too. Just like I predicted the more pressure the more they will double-down on the lies. He can’t handle the truth!


  61. Lily
    61 | July 30, 2012 5:21 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Charles Johnson is defending the Palestinian against Romney.

    Good grief! Really? After all he knows …. he has finally made the final step and thrown Israel under the bus.
    /he is nuts.


  62. Lily
    62 | July 30, 2012 5:21 pm

    @ Will Consult for Food:

    Good for you!!! ;)


  63. 63 | July 30, 2012 5:25 pm

    Ya know, I remember when Americans built stuff like this. I gotta hand it to the Germans, it’s the coolest thing I’ve seen in a while.


  64. brookly red
    64 | July 30, 2012 5:26 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Israel may have a different take on it.

    White House: Romney Is Wrong, Jerusalem Is Not The Capital Of Israel…

    http://weaselzippers.blogspot.com/2012/07/white-house-romney-is-wrong-jerusalem.html

    I have a feeling that’s precisely what Romney wanted them to do.

    Yup… the Jewish & the Evangelical vote, 2 birds with one stone.

    0 played that all wrong, only the way far American left supports the trans-Jordianians


  65. RIX
    65 | July 30, 2012 5:29 pm

    I used to think that Lierals were well meaning, but
    misguided & very naieve.
    If that was ever true , it’s not now.
    Todays Liberals are viscious smear merchants who
    view the truth only as a tactic, no more virtuous
    than a lie.
    Personal destruction of an opponent is only collateral
    damage in their quest for money & power.
    Patriotism is considered a disease.


  66. brookly red
    66 | July 30, 2012 5:31 pm

    RIX wrote:

    I used to think that Lierals were well meaning, but
    misguided & very naieve.
    If that was ever true , it’s not now.
    Todays Liberals are viscious smear merchants who
    view the truth only as a tactic, no more virtuous
    than a lie.
    Personal destruction of an opponent is only collateral
    damage in their quest for money & power.
    Patriotism is considered a disease.

    well you gotta separate the leaders (all of what you said) from the useful idiots who are well, idiots.


  67. Lily
    67 | July 30, 2012 5:31 pm

    @ RIX:

    Well I think it has gone full blown leftist and not liberal anymore.
    Because it is so out there.


  68. RIX
    68 | July 30, 2012 5:32 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Charles Johnson is defending the Palestinian against Romney.

    It’s impossible to underestimate Johnson.
    Just when you think that he can’t sink any .
    lower, he amazes.
    At least he lives down to my expectations


  69. Lily
    69 | July 30, 2012 5:34 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    Charles Johnson is defending the Palestinian against Romney.

    It’s impossible to underestimate Johnson.
    Just when you think that he can’t sink any .
    lower, he amazes.
    At least he lives down to my expectations

    He’s nuts.


  70. waldensianspirit
    70 | July 30, 2012 5:45 pm

    So between Newsweak and Obama Campaign Romney is a wimpy prep school bully


  71. brookly red
    71 | July 30, 2012 5:46 pm

    Lily wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    Charles Johnson is defending the Palestinian against Romney.

    It’s impossible to underestimate Johnson.
    Just when you think that he can’t sink any .
    lower, he amazes.
    At least he lives down to my expectations

    He’s nuts.

    Sad part is if 0 actually knew how hard CJ was pullin for him, he would probably give him a job writing Biden’s press releases and some kind shiny medal or something… they like shiny things you know.


  72. 72 | July 30, 2012 5:46 pm

    RIX wrote:

    I used to think that Lierals were well meaning, but
    misguided & very naieve.
    If that was ever true , it’s not now.
    Todays Liberals are viscious smear merchants who
    view the truth only as a tactic, no more virtuous
    than a lie.
    Personal destruction of an opponent is only collateral
    damage in their quest for money & power.
    Patriotism is considered a disease.

    Their views are childlike and, like children, they’re vicious in the pursuit of what they want. While they claim to be “thoughtful”, they’re purely motivated by thoughtless emotion.


  73. Lily
    73 | July 30, 2012 5:48 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    So between Newsweak and Obama Campaign Romney is a wimpy prep school bully

    What does that make obama?


  74. brookly red
    74 | July 30, 2012 5:49 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Their views are childlike and, like children, they’re vicious in the pursuit of what they want. While they claim to be “thoughtful”, they’re purely motivated by thoughtless emotion.

    that is actually profound…


  75. brookly red
    75 | July 30, 2012 5:49 pm

    Lily wrote:

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    So between Newsweak and Obama Campaign Romney is a wimpy prep school bully

    What does that make obama?

    a commie


  76. RIX
    76 | July 30, 2012 5:50 pm

    @ Lily:

    He’s nuts.

    He’s unsightly too.


  77. rain of lead
    77 | July 30, 2012 5:50 pm

    re: the chik-fil-a bruhaha
    I think this has become a viral protest on the right
    I pass by one to and from my work and since thursday the place has been PACKED
    breakfast,lunch and dinner

    “we” never get polled, are mocked and insulted at every turn and I think
    regular folks have just had enough and have decided to eat some chicken for freedom


  78. Lily
    78 | July 30, 2012 5:51 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    Charles Johnson is defending the Palestinian against Romney.

    It’s impossible to underestimate Johnson.
    Just when you think that he can’t sink any .
    lower, he amazes.
    At least he lives down to my expectations

    He’s nuts.

    Sad part is if 0 actually knew how hard CJ was pullin for him, he would probably give him a job writing Biden’s press releases and some kind shiny medal or something… they like shiny things you know.

    Bodes bad for them too because everytime ole chuckles pulls for someone they lose.
    /oh look something shiny over there > > > > >


  79. 79 | July 30, 2012 5:51 pm

    At 18, you were fully qualified to be drafted, poorly trained and sent halfway around the world to have your ass shot off. I say you were God-damned well old enough for or against people that did that to you. WTF is wrong with you people? Is everybody just too young to remember that?


  80. 80 | July 30, 2012 5:52 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ Lily:

    He’s nuts.

    He’s unsightly too.

    And he probably smells bad.


  81. Lily
    81 | July 30, 2012 5:52 pm

    rain of lead wrote:

    re: the chik-fil-a bruhaha
    I think this has become a viral protest on the right
    I pass by one to and from my work and since thursday the place has been PACKED
    breakfast,lunch and dinner

    “we” never get polled, are mocked and insulted at every turn and I think
    regular folks have just had enough and have decided to eat some chicken for freedom

    Just goes to show you just how fed up people are with this nonsense.


  82. RIX
    82 | July 30, 2012 5:52 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    Their views are childlike and, like children, they’re vicious in the pursuit of what they want. While they claim to be “thoughtful”, they’re purely motivated by thoughtless emotion.

    From your mouth to Gods ears.
    How are you Buddy?


  83. brookly red
    83 | July 30, 2012 5:53 pm

    rain of lead wrote:

    re: the chik-fil-a bruhaha
    I think this has become a viral protest on the right
    I pass by one to and from my work and since thursday the place has been PACKED
    breakfast,lunch and dinner

    “we” never get polled, are mocked and insulted at every turn and I think
    regular folks have just had enough and have decided to eat some chicken for freedom

    Romney should say he will give them a school lunch contract if elected LOL


  84. buzzsawmonkey
    84 | July 30, 2012 5:53 pm

    Fatboy Johnson has a problem with the disparity between “Palestinian” and Israeli incomes? Maybe that disparity is due to the fact that “Palestinians” think only of new ways to strap on a suicide vest, while the Israelis like to think of new ways to do things better.

    Watch the video I’ve linked to. An Israeli kibbutznik decided to figure out a way to build a bicycle from recycled cardboard—something you’d think would be dear to the Fatboy cyclist’s heart—at a materials cost of $9, retail cost between $60 and $90.

    That’s why there’s a disparity between Israeli income and “Palestinian” income. The Israelis are looking towards making things better, while the welfare queens of the Arab world continue to wallow in making life worse.


  85. Lily
    85 | July 30, 2012 5:53 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    At 18, you were fully qualified to be drafted, poorly trained and sent halfway around the world to have your ass shot off. I say you were God-damned well old enough for or against people that did that to you. WTF is wrong with you people? Is everybody just too young to remember that?

    Nope.. I agree I was very aware at 18 and didn’t vote the way they may have wanted me too.


  86. 86 | July 30, 2012 5:54 pm

    RIX wrote:

    How are you Buddy?

    Pretty damned good, thanks for asking! I hope I find you likewise.


  87. brookly red
    87 | July 30, 2012 5:54 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Bodes bad for them too because everytime ole chuckles pulls for someone they lose.
    /oh look something shiny over there > > > > >

    you would think he would have learned his lesson and just pull for himself ;)


  88. RIX
    88 | July 30, 2012 5:54 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    @ Lily:
    He’s nuts.
    He’s unsightly too.
    And he probably smells bad.

    Oh, I think that’s a lock.
    You need a hazmat team to clean up that guy.


  89. Lily
    89 | July 30, 2012 5:55 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    So between Newsweak and Obama Campaign Romney is a wimpy prep school bully

    What does that make obama?

    a commie

    Excatly, and people are noticing…but he just doesn’t seem to care.
    Good then. Because a lot of people are sick of him.


  90. brookly red
    90 | July 30, 2012 5:57 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Fatboy Johnson has a problem with the disparity between “Palestinian” and Israeli incomes? Maybe that disparity is due to the fact that “Palestinians” think only of new ways to strap on a suicide vest, while the Israelis like to think of new ways to do things better.

    Watch the video I’ve linked to. An Israeli kibbutznik decided to figure out a way to build a bicycle from recycled cardboard—something you’d think would be dear to the Fatboy cyclist’s heart—at a materials cost of $9, retail cost between $60 and $90.

    That’s why there’s a disparity between Israeli income and “Palestinian” income. The Israelis are looking towards making things better, while the welfare queens of the Arab world continue to wallow in making life worse.

    there is no freaking way that recycled cardboard can hold his fast ass up going down hi… did you say 90 bucks? We should chip in and buy him one.


  91. Lily
    91 | July 30, 2012 5:57 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Bodes bad for them too because everytime ole chuckles pulls for someone they lose.
    /oh look something shiny over there > > > > >

    you would think he would have learned his lesson and just pull for himself

    I think he thought by going pro-obama he was on the winning end…wrong again. He has no principals. So I do think he pulled for himself and look his blog is in the sewer. ;)


  92. buzzsawmonkey
    92 | July 30, 2012 6:02 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    there is no freaking way that recycled cardboard can hold his fast ass

    Watch the video. It’s a magnificent piece of design.


  93. Alberta Oil Peon
    93 | July 30, 2012 6:05 pm

    @ Kafir:
    Well, if you are looking for stupid people, Democrat voters are a bottomless well.


  94. waldensianspirit
    94 | July 30, 2012 6:06 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    brookly red wrote:
    there is no freaking way that recycled cardboard can hold his fast ass
    Watch the video. It’s a magnificent piece of design.

    It is! He didn’t give up at all


  95. RIX
    95 | July 30, 2012 6:07 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    How are you Buddy?
    Pretty damned good, thanks for asking! I hope I find you likewise.

    Yeah, it’s all good.
    Just counting down the days to boot out the Preezy.


  96. RIX
    96 | July 30, 2012 6:12 pm

    As long as the Chick Fil A CEO has the Libs crazy,
    he should go for broke.
    Relable the menu with things like Salvation Chicken
    Sandwiches, Jesus Waffle Fries, Jordan River Colas,
    Heavenly Apple Pie.
    You get the idea.


  97. waldensianspirit
    97 | July 30, 2012 6:14 pm

    Shrillary’is gettin’ shrill about her Huma


  98. buzzsawmonkey
    98 | July 30, 2012 6:17 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Shrillary’is gettin’ shrill about her Huma

    She came to Huma’s defense lickety-split.


  99. waldensianspirit
    99 | July 30, 2012 6:18 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    :mrgreen:


  100. Alberta Oil Peon
    100 | July 30, 2012 6:18 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Well, probably even Debbie Wasshername Schlitz could pass a literacy test. Simply being able to read and write does not confer wisdom.

    My solution: every citizen over the age of majority gets one vote, for simply using oxygen. Then award bonus votes based on one’s tax return:
    <$1000 Fed tax paid, no bonus vote; $1001 -- 10,000 paid, 1 bonus vote; $10,001 -- 100, 000 paid, 2 bonus votes. And so on. I'd base it on a 4-year running average, so as not to unfairly penalize people who are having a bad employment/business year in the year an election falls.

    Needless to say, the Left should be for this, as everybody knows the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes, thus will not get the bonus votes one might expect///

    Something like this might shift the balance of power from the takers to the makers (ultimately giving some of the takers the incentive needed to become makers).


  101. Speranza
    101 | July 30, 2012 6:19 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Shrillary’is gettin’ shrill about her Huma

    Hummina hummina hummina


  102. Speranza
    102 | July 30, 2012 6:20 pm

    Lily wrote:

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    So between Newsweak and Obama Campaign Romney is a wimpy prep school bully

    What does that make obama?

    Andrew Sullivan’s boyfriend.


  103. rain of lead
    103 | July 30, 2012 6:23 pm

    hey ya’ll
    Romney has a new you tube ad out
    go to you tube and look for “welcome to florida”
    it slices, it dices it’s the bassveg-o-matic

    really
    go check it out
    it’s that good

    I found it on our newest entry on the blog roll chicks on the right


  104. Alberta Oil Peon
    104 | July 30, 2012 6:25 pm

    @ Speranza:
    For most of history in North America, voting age and the official age of majority was 21, both here in Canada and in the USA. Back in the day, by the age of 21, one was expected to have become a useful citizen, and holding a job, or farming a piece of land.

    We have reduced the age of majority at the same time as we have prolonged childhood.


  105. Speranza
    105 | July 30, 2012 6:28 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Israel may have a different take on it.
    White House: Romney Is Wrong, Jerusalem Is Not The Capital Of Israel…
    http://weaselzippers.blogspot.com/2012/07/white-house-romney-is-wrong-jerusalem.html

    I have a feeling that’s precisely what Romney wanted them to do.

    Your feeling is correct. Obama should’ve just kept his mouth shut if he disagreed (which he obviously does) with Romney.


  106. Speranza
    106 | July 30, 2012 6:28 pm

    Alberta Oil Peon wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    For most of history in North America, voting age and the official age of majority was 21, both here in Canada and in the USA. Back in the day, by the age of 21, one was expected to have become a useful citizen, and holding a job, or farming a piece of land.
    We have reduced the age of majority at the same time as we have prolonged childhood.

    That’s exactly my point.


  107. brookly red
    107 | July 30, 2012 6:30 pm

    Alberta Oil Peon wrote:

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Well, probably even Debbie Wasshername Schlitz could pass a literacy test. Simply being able to read and write does not confer wisdom.

    My solution: every citizen over the age of majority gets one vote, for simply using oxygen. Then award bonus votes based on one’s tax return:
    <$1000 Fed tax paid, no bonus vote; $1001 – 10,000 paid, 1 bonus vote; $10,001 – 100, 000 paid, 2 bonus votes. And so on. I'd base it on a 4-year running average, so as not to unfairly penalize people who are having a bad employment/business year in the year an election falls.

    Needless to say, the Left should be for this, as everybody knows the rich don't pay their fair share of taxes, thus will not get the bonus votes one might expect///

    Something like this might shift the balance of power from the takers to the makers (ultimately giving some of the takers the incentive needed to become makers).

    Uhhh NO. don’t give them any fucking ideas… so under your plan people put out of work by Obamanomocs vote once and public union members vote 3 times? Do you work for ACORN or something?


  108. Lily
    108 | July 30, 2012 6:31 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    MacDuff wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Israel may have a different take on it.
    White House: Romney Is Wrong, Jerusalem Is Not The Capital Of Israel…
    http://weaselzippers.blogspot.com/2012/07/white-house-romney-is-wrong-jerusalem.html

    I have a feeling that’s precisely what Romney wanted them to do.

    Your feeling is correct. Obama should’ve just kept his mouth shut if he disagreed (which he obviously does) with Romney.

    For some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to keep his mouth shut. He still thinks people are fainting over him/not.


  109. buzzsawmonkey
    109 | July 30, 2012 6:32 pm

    Lily wrote:

    For some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to keep his mouth shut. He still thinks people are fainting over him/not.

    All he sees is himself in the mirror.


  110. waldensianspirit
    110 | July 30, 2012 6:35 pm

    Drudge headline is saying Wall St is starting to bet a Romney win. I also am tailoring things for Nov 7 but not showing my hand. Wall St also should wait so Obama can’t proclaim an upswing due to his sorry ass


  111. RIX
    111 | July 30, 2012 6:35 pm

    @ Alberta Oil Peon:

    We have reduced the age of majority at the same time as we have prolonged childhood

    That’s exactly right, adolesence is really longer now


  112. Lily
    112 | July 30, 2012 6:35 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    For some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to keep his mouth shut. He still thinks people are fainting over him/not.

    All he sees is himself in the mirror.

    He is like the wicked-stepmother in a fairy tale.


  113. Alberta Oil Peon
    113 | July 30, 2012 6:35 pm

    @ Mike C.:
    Anyone in the military in the service of their country should be deemed to be an adult, and have the right to vote and to consume alcohol. They are putting their ass on the line, so they deserve the recognition.


  114. brookly red
    114 | July 30, 2012 6:35 pm

    Lily wrote:

    For some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to keep his mouth shut. He still thinks people are fainting over him/not.

    I want to see him rejected like last years boy band… giving speeches at bar-mitzvas & high school graduations.


  115. buzzsawmonkey
    115 | July 30, 2012 6:38 pm

    Lily wrote:

    He is like the wicked-stepmother in a fairy tale.

    He’s certainly tried to feed a poisoned apple to what he regards as Snow-White America.


  116. Speranza
    116 | July 30, 2012 6:39 pm

    Lily wrote:

    For some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to keep his mouth shut. He still thinks people are fainting over him/not.

    He is still the malignant narcissist. He rode past my apartment a few hours ago to go to some fund raiser. This is the second time in a month he has done that.


  117. brookly red
    117 | July 30, 2012 6:39 pm

    Lily wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    For some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to keep his mouth shut. He still thinks people are fainting over him/not.

    All he sees is himself in the mirror.

    He is like the wicked-stepmother in a fairy tale.

    Kinda fucked up no? we wanted a leader and got an evil-stepmother.


  118. Speranza
    118 | July 30, 2012 6:39 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    For some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to keep his mouth shut. He still thinks people are fainting over him/not.

    I want to see him rejected like last years boy band… giving speeches at bar-mitzvas & high school graduations.

    PMSNBC will snatch him up.


  119. Lily
    119 | July 30, 2012 6:39 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ Alberta Oil Peon:

    We have reduced the age of majority at the same time as we have prolonged childhood

    That’s exactly right, adolesence is really longer now

    It is for some reason. I remember when I was 18 I was waaaaaaaaay ahead of the 18 year olds today. Kids can’t be kids anymore…so when they get some freedom they act out their childhood that they should have had. OMG..little boy is acting like a little boy PUT HIM ON MEDS. OMG..lets dress up little girls like they street walkers!!!
    OMG … don’t little kids believe in Santa Claus..YOU ARE LYING TO THEM!!! I could go on ….


  120. brookly red
    120 | July 30, 2012 6:40 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    He’s certainly tried to feed a poisoned apple to what he regards as Snow-White America.

    “we have to eat it to see what’s in it my dear”


  121. Lily
    121 | July 30, 2012 6:41 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    For some reason he doesn’t seem to be able to keep his mouth shut. He still thinks people are fainting over him/not.

    All he sees is himself in the mirror.

    He is like the wicked-stepmother in a fairy tale.

    Kinda fucked up no? we wanted a leader and got an evil-stepmother.

    Yep…hopefully it ends like the fairy-tale and the evil-stepmother loses.


  122. Lily
    122 | July 30, 2012 6:42 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    He is like the wicked-stepmother in a fairy tale.

    He’s certainly tried to feed a poisoned apple to what he regards as Snow-White America.

    Yep!


  123. Alberta Oil Peon
    123 | July 30, 2012 6:43 pm

    @ brookly red:
    Like I said, 4-year running average, so that one bad year doesn’t jeopardize your voting status.

    And, as far as I know, people working at honest jobs still outnumber unionized government workers, and the conservative governments elected by such a scheme would likely soon reduce the rolls of unionized government workers anyway.


  124. brookly red
    124 | July 30, 2012 6:45 pm

    Hmmmm CNBC is pissing it’s pants http://www.cnbc.com/id/48400076


  125. heysoos
    125 | July 30, 2012 6:45 pm

    @ Speranza:
    Bush came through ABQ several times in his heyday…we got tired of it pretty fast…imagine if you lived in Ohio and had these clowns roaming around every four years…it’s not a BO thing, they all do it


  126. buzzsawmonkey
    126 | July 30, 2012 6:46 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Yep…hopefully it ends like the fairy-tale and the evil-stepmother loses.

    Like this: Betty Boop’s Snow White.


  127. brookly red
    127 | July 30, 2012 6:47 pm

    Alberta Oil Peon wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    Like I said, 4-year running average, so that one bad year doesn’t jeopardize your voting status.

    And, as far as I know, people working at honest jobs still outnumber unionized government workers, and the conservative governments elected by such a scheme would likely soon reduce the rolls of unionized government workers anyway.

    Uhhh NO. 1 citizen with proper ID = 1 vote, this is America.


  128. Lily
    128 | July 30, 2012 6:49 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Alberta Oil Peon wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    Like I said, 4-year running average, so that one bad year doesn’t jeopardize your voting status.

    And, as far as I know, people working at honest jobs still outnumber unionized government workers, and the conservative governments elected by such a scheme would likely soon reduce the rolls of unionized government workers anyway.

    Uhhh NO. 1 citizen with proper ID = 1 vote, this is America.

    Yep it doesn’t matter what they believe to deny someone a vote who has proper I.D. is not American. What we need to do is stop the dead from voting.


  129. heysoos
    129 | July 30, 2012 6:50 pm

    @ Lily:
    OTOH brain dead voters are far more of a threat


  130. The Osprey
    130 | July 30, 2012 6:50 pm

    Alan West: I came to Chicago to chew bubble gum and open a Chick-fil-A.
    And I’m all out of bubble gum.


  131. Lily
    131 | July 30, 2012 6:57 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    Good for Alan West! :)
    /I swear that man is a true Patriot.


  132. brookly red
    132 | July 30, 2012 6:58 pm

    Lily wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    Alberta Oil Peon wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    Like I said, 4-year running average, so that one bad year doesn’t jeopardize your voting status.

    And, as far as I know, people working at honest jobs still outnumber unionized government workers, and the conservative governments elected by such a scheme would likely soon reduce the rolls of unionized government workers anyway.

    Uhhh NO. 1 citizen with proper ID = 1 vote, this is America.

    Yep it doesn’t matter what they believe to deny someone a vote who has proper I.D. is not American. What we need to do is stop the dead from voting.

    and the illegal, and their pets, and people who don’t exist in the first place… voter fraud is huge. I know it’s hard for some people to imagine but you have to be in the inner city to really understand the scope, 1 busload of professional ACORN voters moving from poll to poll can nullify the the votes of an entire county upstate. I am not internet-crazy, I have gone to the polling place and the R levers were glued… the cops just stared when I complained.


  133. Da_Beerfreak
    133 | July 30, 2012 6:58 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    Alan West: I came to Chicago to chew bubble gum and open a Chick-fil-A.
    And I’m all out of bubble gum.

    West needs to be the future Speaker of the House or there will be no future for the United States. :evil:


  134. Lily
    134 | July 30, 2012 6:58 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ Lily:
    OTOH brain dead voters are far more of a threat

    So who is going to deem who is brain dead and who isn’t?
    No what is more of a threat is voter apathy.


  135. buzzsawmonkey
    135 | July 30, 2012 6:59 pm

    My pet frog wants to open a Droso-Fil-A for other frogs.


  136. buzzsawmonkey
    136 | July 30, 2012 7:00 pm

    Lily wrote:

    So who is going to deem who is brain dead and who isn’t?

    Brain dead
    Brain dead
    Stuck with a voter’s test
    Who’s gonna say who is brain dead
    And who votes the best?

    /’60s TV off


  137. Lily
    137 | July 30, 2012 7:00 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    Alberta Oil Peon wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    Like I said, 4-year running average, so that one bad year doesn’t jeopardize your voting status.

    And, as far as I know, people working at honest jobs still outnumber unionized government workers, and the conservative governments elected by such a scheme would likely soon reduce the rolls of unionized government workers anyway.

    Uhhh NO. 1 citizen with proper ID = 1 vote, this is America.

    Yep it doesn’t matter what they believe to deny someone a vote who has proper I.D. is not American. What we need to do is stop the dead from voting.

    and the illegal, and their pets, and people who don’t exist in the first place… voter fraud is huge. I know it’s hard for some people to imagine but you have to be in the inner city to really understand the scope, 1 busload of professional ACORN voters moving from poll to poll can nullify the the votes of an entire county upstate. I am not internet-crazy, I have gone to the polling place and the R levers were glued… the cops just stared when I complained.

    Good grief!!!! Glued? Yes voter FRAUD IS A HUGE PROBLEM.


  138. Lily
    138 | July 30, 2012 7:01 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    So who is going to deem who is brain dead and who isn’t?

    Brain dead
    Brain dead
    Stuck with a voter’s test
    Who’s gonna say who is brain dead
    And who votes the best?

    /’60s TV off

    :lol: :lol: :lol:


  139. brookly red
    139 | July 30, 2012 7:04 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ The Osprey:

    Good for Alan West!
    /I swear that man is a true Patriot.

    you know, I work on Madison Ave. and the Chick-fil-A people are blessed. You can’t buy this kind of publicity with George Soro’s money… the Dems are f’en stupid I tell you, I am surprised they haven’t died from lead poisoning as many times as they have shot themselves in the foot.


  140. brookly red
    140 | July 30, 2012 7:05 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    So who is going to deem who is brain dead and who isn’t?

    Brain dead
    Brain dead
    Stuck with a voter’s test
    Who’s gonna say who is brain dead
    And who votes the best?

    /’60s TV off

    Branded. what do I win?


  141. Lily
    141 | July 30, 2012 7:08 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    @ The Osprey:

    Good for Alan West!
    /I swear that man is a true Patriot.

    you know, I work on Madison Ave. and the Chick-fil-A people are blessed. You can’t buy this kind of publicity with George Soro’s money… the Dems are f’en stupid I tell you, I am surprised they haven’t died from lead poisoning as many times as they have shot themselves in the foot.

    I know! Just keep giving them more ammo to keep shooting themselves in the foot. ;)


  142. buzzsawmonkey
    142 | July 30, 2012 7:08 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    what do I win?

    The esteem of your peers.


  143. Lily
    143 | July 30, 2012 7:10 pm

    Google “Voter Fraud” and you get ACORN all over the place.


  144. brookly red
    144 | July 30, 2012 7:10 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Good grief!!!! Glued? Yes voter FRAUD IS A HUGE PROBLEM.

    since LGF I have been citing instances. For Pete’s sake right now in Union sq. Park they have a booth registering tourists to vote using their hotel addresses. It is right there for all to see, and not one law enforcement department is doing jack-shit where is that O’Keef fucker when we need him?


  145. brookly red
    145 | July 30, 2012 7:12 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    what do I win?

    The esteem of your peers.

    I am peerless!


  146. Lily
    146 | July 30, 2012 7:13 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Good grief!!!! Glued? Yes voter FRAUD IS A HUGE PROBLEM.

    since LGF I have been citing instances. For Pete’s sake right now in Union sq. Park they have a booth registering tourists to vote using their hotel addresses. It is right there for all to see, and not one law enforcement department is doing jack-shit where is that O’Keef fucker when we need him?

    Unreal. I would think it is the upper Brass of the police department that has handed down the no arrest on them. Think Bloomberg.


  147. 147 | July 30, 2012 7:14 pm

    Alberta Oil Peon wrote:

    @ Mike C.:
    Anyone in the military in the service of their country should be deemed to be an adult, and have the right to vote and to consume alcohol. They are putting their ass on the line, so they deserve the recognition.

    You better fucking believe it.

    And you have to remember that back when, it wasn’t voluntary service -- you’re ass was drafted. To tell somebody they were not old enough to vote but were old enough to die, like it or not, was ridiculous. No amount of post-game quarterbacking can change that basic concept.


  148. buzzsawmonkey
    148 | July 30, 2012 7:14 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    For Pete’s sake right now in Union sq. Park they have a booth registering tourists to vote using their hotel addresses. It is right there for all to see, and not one law enforcement department is doing jack-shit where is that O’Keef fucker when we need him?

    Some ACORN-esque outfit in blue T-shirts was going door to door in my girlfriend’s neighborhood soliciting contributions to combat voter ID laws in PA. She overheard one of these goombahs suggesting to the person who came to the door that they contribute $50. That’s a lot of money—and all the more so for some door-to-door clown in a T-shirt.


  149. buzzsawmonkey
    149 | July 30, 2012 7:15 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    And you have to remember that back when, it wasn’t voluntary service – you’re ass was drafted. To tell somebody they were not old enough to vote but were old enough to die, like it or not, was ridiculous.

    Why?


  150. brookly red
    150 | July 30, 2012 7:17 pm

    Lily wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Good grief!!!! Glued? Yes voter FRAUD IS A HUGE PROBLEM.

    since LGF I have been citing instances. For Pete’s sake right now in Union sq. Park they have a booth registering tourists to vote using their hotel addresses. It is right there for all to see, and not one law enforcement department is doing jack-shit where is that O’Keef fucker when we need him?

    Unreal. I would think it is the upper Brass of the police department that has handed down the no arrest on them. Think Bloomberg.

    Think Holder. Not one TV station, not even FOX… nothing.

    Any body in NYC? walk down to the south side of the park by the subway entrance and tell me I am lying.


  151. brookly red
    151 | July 30, 2012 7:22 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    For Pete’s sake right now in Union sq. Park they have a booth registering tourists to vote using their hotel addresses. It is right there for all to see, and not one law enforcement department is doing jack-shit where is that O’Keef fucker when we need him?

    Some ACORN-esque outfit in blue T-shirts was going door to door in my girlfriend’s neighborhood soliciting contributions to combat voter ID laws in PA. She overheard one of these goombahs suggesting to the person who came to the door that they contribute $50. That’s a lot of money—and all the more so for some door-to-door clown in a T-shirt.

    It is a shake down plain an simple, they come right to your door and threaten you… we know where you live, where you park your car, where your kids go to school.

    My father left Germany in 36 right after the olympics… these people are Brown shirts, I don’t use nazi terms lightly.


  152. Lily
    152 | July 30, 2012 7:23 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Almost said Holder…shouldn’t charges be brought up on him..
    I know I’m dreaming. Again.


  153. buzzsawmonkey
    153 | July 30, 2012 7:23 pm

    @ Mike C.:

    Just to underscore my “Why?” in #149, I’d note that 18-year-olds did not have the vote during the Civil War, when boys were men a lot younger than they are today; not in the Spanish-American War; not in WWI; not in WWII; not in Korea; not during most of Vietnam.

    The agitation for the 18-year-old vote began in earnest during Korea, not WWII, when the draft was much broader.

    So, again, I’m curious—why, again, is the 18-year-old vote considered something that not only is fixed in the firmament (via Constitutional amendment), but something that should be?


  154. Lily
    154 | July 30, 2012 7:24 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Glad this isn’t happening down here. As far as I know. Nobody is coming to my door for obama.


  155. buzzsawmonkey
    155 | July 30, 2012 7:27 pm

    @ brookly red:

    A friend of mine, in my neighborhood, got a door-to-door canvasser with a petition against fracking. My friend refused to sign it—on the grounds that he supported fracking. It blew the little shit’s mind; he was used to people turning him down because they didn’t sign petitions, but for someone to come out and say that he was pro-fracking was something he was not prepared for.


  156. brookly red
    156 | July 30, 2012 7:29 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    Glad this isn’t happening down here. As far as I know. Nobody is coming to my door for obama.

    everyday you read in the paper about a “flash-mob” sacking a store in a gun free zone, coincidence?


  157. Lily
    157 | July 30, 2012 7:29 pm

    How bad voter fraud is….

    We Will Not Be Silenced

    http://wewillnotbesilenced2008.com/


  158. Lily
    158 | July 30, 2012 7:30 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    Glad this isn’t happening down here. As far as I know. Nobody is coming to my door for obama.

    everyday you read in the paper about a “flash-mob” sacking a store in a gun free zone, coincidence?

    No! Certainly not.


  159. 159 | July 30, 2012 7:30 pm

    New Thread.


  160. brookly red
    160 | July 30, 2012 7:30 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    A friend of mine, in my neighborhood, got a door-to-door canvasser with a petition against fracking. My friend refused to sign it—on the grounds that he supported fracking. It blew the little shit’s mind; he was used to people turning him down because they didn’t sign petitions, but for someone to come out and say that he was pro-fracking was something he was not prepared for.

    so when was his car vandalized?


  161. buzzsawmonkey
    161 | July 30, 2012 7:32 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    so when was his car vandalized?

    Fortunately, he’s between cars at the moment.


  162. 162 | July 30, 2012 7:39 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Mike C. wrote:
    And you have to remember that back when, it wasn’t voluntary service – you’re ass was drafted. To tell somebody they were not old enough to vote but were old enough to die, like it or not, was ridiculous.
    Why?

    I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a joke…


  163. buzzsawmonkey
    163 | July 30, 2012 7:42 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a joke…

    Not a joke at all. Answer, if you can.


  164. heysoos
    164 | July 30, 2012 7:53 pm

    @ Lily:
    braindead voter put BO in office…they must pay the bill for it…one and done…if conservative voters get off their ass and vote, it will be a landslide…they are the key


  165. 165 | July 30, 2012 7:56 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Mike C. wrote:
    I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that was a joke…
    Not a joke at all. Answer, if you can.

    Too young to have been under that particular sword, aren’t you? Or to have had acquaintances who never got to cast even one vote come home in a box with no say in the matter.

    Slavery used to be considered okay too, you know. For most of human history, in fact. Still holding out for that? Women as property -- good with that one too?

    Please don’t talk to me any more.


  166. buzzsawmonkey
    166 | July 30, 2012 8:03 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    Too young to have been under that particular sword, aren’t you? Or to have had acquaintances who never got to cast even one vote come home in a box with no say in the matter.

    Slavery used to be considered okay too, you know. For most of human history, in fact. Still holding out for that? Women as property – good with that one too?

    Please don’t talk to me any more.

    I see you have no answer.

    In reply to your stupid and empty ad hominem, I had to deal with the Vietnam draft before the lottery, and before the 18-year-old vote, so I know perfectly well what it’s like.

    Your inability to provide even the slightest effort at an answer is contemptible.


  167. huckfunn
    167 | July 30, 2012 8:05 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    I was one of the last 2000 people to be drafted in December, 1972. I was 20. Following basic and MP school, I was on my way to Oakland for transport to SE Asia. The plane stopped in El Paso and I went into the bar, in uniform, and they wouldn’t serve me because I was 10 days short of being 21. I couldn’t vote either, but at the time I didn’t want to vote, I wanted a drink. I’ve always resented that. I’m not in favor of 18 year old voting or drinking, but if you’re in the uniform of your country, you should be able to do either regardless of your age.


  168. buzzsawmonkey
    168 | July 30, 2012 8:12 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    I was one of the last 2000 people to be drafted in December, 1972. I was 20. Following basic and MP school, I was on my way to Oakland for transport to SE Asia. The plane stopped in El Paso and I went into the bar, in uniform, and they wouldn’t serve me because I was 10 days short of being 21. I couldn’t vote either, but at the time I didn’t want to vote, I wanted a drink. I’ve always resented that. I’m not in favor of 18 year old voting or drinking, but if you’re in the uniform of your country, you should be able to do either regardless of your age.

    Now that is a civil answer.

    I agree with you as far as drinking is concerned; there is, by all accounts, little enough amusement available for soldiers.

    As far as voting if one is in, or has been in, the armed forces, I can see a good argument for that too; one has shouldered an adult responsibility, and it is appropriate for that to be recognized. That does not extend to granting the vote to all 18-year-olds, however.

    And, for that matter, I can see the argument against granting the vote to 18-year-olds, too, notwithstanding service; military service is something the young are better suited for than the old, but that does not necessarily translate into maturity of judgment. I’m not saying that this is the way things should be—as I said above, there is a good argument to be made that someone who is serving their country, whether by volunteer or by draft, is entitled to the privilege of the franchise. I’m merely saying there are arguments on both sides.

    Nonetheless, I appreciate your taking the time to give a civil and intelligent answer, unlike some I could name.


  169. huckfunn
    169 | July 30, 2012 8:24 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    military service is something the young are better suited for than the old, but that does not necessarily translate into maturity of judgment.

    I’m totally with you on the civil debate thing and that’s generally the way I keep it.

    If one is given the weapons and the theoretical judgement to kill, or not to kill, that should be proof enough that that individual has the maturity of judgement to vote regardless of age.


  170. buzzsawmonkey
    170 | July 30, 2012 8:37 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    If one is given the weapons and the theoretical judgement to kill, or not to kill, that should be proof enough that that individual has the maturity of judgement to vote regardless of age.

    As I said, the way you put it makes sense.

    I’ve merely pointed out that people below voting age were routinely drafted in previous wars—and in those days, it was assumed, rightly or wrongly, that their parents (in what was then a more close-knit society) would exercise their franchise on behalf of both the nation and the children for whom they not only cared, but upon whom they relied, far more than today, for maintenance and sustenance in their old age. In other words, in the days before comprehensive government programs, people not only loved their children but regarded them as a hedge against a destitute and forlorn old age; they did not vote for or support wars lightly, because it meant the very real potential loss of their own comfort in their declining years.

    Again—I’m not disagreeing with your position, merely trying to underscore that the prior lack of voting rights for the young was not a wholly unthinking thing. I think, however, that a voting age of 21 with an armed-forces exception makes a lot more sense than an across-the-board 18-year voting age.


  171. huckfunn
    171 | July 30, 2012 8:46 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    That’s exactly where I am. People in uniform, regardless of age, should have all majority rights… drinking, voting, entering into contracts, getting laid, etc… Those rights should not necessarily be granted to underage people as defined by the individual states. Now, let’s have a drink and go out in the parking lot and beat the shit out of each other. :mrgreen:


  172. buzzsawmonkey
    172 | July 30, 2012 8:51 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    Now, let’s have a drink and go out in the parking lot and beat the shit out of each other.

    Given my age, general unhealthy lifestyle, and whatever residual military training stays with you, I’m sure it would be no contest. But you’re on for the drink.


  173. huckfunn
    173 | July 30, 2012 9:07 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    But you’re on for the drink.

    Cheers, mate.


  174. 174 | July 31, 2012 12:11 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Kafir wrote:
    Many Democrats think hope and pray (yeah they pray, hell they’d probably sacrifice a chicken if they thought it would help) that Barack Obama’s attacks on Mitt Romney’s business career will have the same effect that they think the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth ads had on John Kerry in 2004.
    What do you think the Chick-Fil-A hoo-hah is all about?

    We ate there after work yesterday. Good stuff. Not the cheapest fast food, perhaps, but you do get your money’s worth in tasty protein.


  175. 175 | July 31, 2012 12:13 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    huckfunn wrote:
    If one is given the weapons and the theoretical judgement to kill, or not to kill, that should be proof enough that that individual has the maturity of judgement to vote regardless of age.
    As I said, the way you put it makes sense.
    I’ve merely pointed out that people below voting age were routinely drafted in previous wars—and in those days, it was assumed, rightly or wrongly, that their parents (in what was then a more close-knit society) would exercise their franchise on behalf of both the nation and the children for whom they not only cared, but upon whom they relied, far more than today, for maintenance and sustenance in their old age. In other words, in the days before comprehensive government programs, people not only loved their children but regarded them as a hedge against a destitute and forlorn old age; they did not vote for or support wars lightly, because it meant the very real potential loss of their own comfort in their declining years.
    Again—I’m not disagreeing with your position, merely trying to underscore that the prior lack of voting rights for the young was not a wholly unthinking thing. I think, however, that a voting age of 21 with an armed-forces exception makes a lot more sense than an across-the-board 18-year voting age.

    Two paws up!


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