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Karl Rove: The Architect of defeat

by Rodan ( 248 Comments › )
Filed under Elections 2012, Progressives at November 12th, 2012 - 3:00 pm

Karl Rove is one of the biggest losers in politics. He blew a 5 point lead against AL Gore in 2000 because he did not answer the revelation of Bush’s DUI. In 2004 he barely beat the most Far Left Democrat to run up to that point John Kerry. In 2006 he was tasked with holding Congress for Republicans. That election was so destructive, that it eliminated the GOP bench up to that point. He has the track record of a loser, yet he’s on FOX News giving advise like some wise sage.

In 2012 Karl Rove’s PAC American Crossroads flopped. They spent 300 Million to defeat Obama and get Republicans elected. It was a 300 Million flop. Now donors are mad that Karl Rove’s campaign strategy flopped.

Karl Rove is feeling the heat.

The face of the historic $1 billion plan to unseat President Barack Obama and turn the Senate Republican, Rove now finds himself the leading scapegoat for its failure. And he’s scrambling to protect his status as a top GOP moneyman by convincing disappointed donors to his Crossroads groups that he did the best he could with their $300 million.

Sources tell POLITICO that some donors have called Crossroads officials to ask how their polling could have been so far off, while others are openly grumbling that the groups should have spent more on the ground game. Rival operatives — long frustrated by Rove’s dominance of big GOP money — are seizing on the discontent, questioning whether he’s hurting the cause and privately urging donors to shut him out.

[....]

Richard Viguerie, a pioneering direct-mail consultant, called for Republicans to purge from their ranks Rove and Ed Gillespie — who helped found Crossroads and later moved over to Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign — as well as Romney advisers Stuart Stevens and Neil Newhouse. “In any logical universe,” he argued, “no one would give a dime to their ineffective super PACs, such as American Crossroads.”

Rick Tyler, a former strategist for the pro-Newt Gingrich super PAC and a top adviser to Todd Akin’s Missouri Senate campaign, called Crossroads’ efforts “a colossal failure” and asserted, “Rove has too much control over the purse strings.”

[....]

Yet, of the $204 million in so-called independent expenditures reported by American Crossroads, Crossroads GPS and a related super PAC called Crossroads Generation, $190 million went toward television or radio ads backing Romney and GOP congressional candidates. Only $11 million went toward Web advertising, according to a POLITICO analysis of Federal Election Commission data.

Of the 31 races in which the groups aired ads, the Republican won only nine. And, since the groups spent $137 million on the presidential race, less than 5.7 percent of their total spending went toward helping winning candidates, according to a POLITICO analysis.

Karl Rove should be considered persona non grata with Republicans. He is nothing but a lackey for that loser family of Connecticut transplants from Texas. Karl Rove is the architect of defeat and belongs in the ash heap of history.

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248 Responses to “Karl Rove: The Architect of defeat”
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  1. 1 | November 11, 2012 10:33 pm

    The link in the header isn’t clickable.

    Karl Rove under fire


  2. 2 | November 11, 2012 10:38 pm

    Just for starters, Rove is to blame for not backing somebody other than Romney in the primary.


  3. Speranza
    3 | November 12, 2012 3:08 pm

    He is a washed up blowhard as is Dick Morris.


  4. heysoos
    4 | November 12, 2012 3:08 pm

    the marketing aspect of elections is the most powerful force on the planet…where all the cheating, twisting and spin starts…I have no use for Rove…he’s one good example of why elections are now a dysfunctional circus….he’s done nothing but line his own pockets, but that’s the point, right?


  5. lobo91
    5 | November 12, 2012 3:09 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    the marketing aspect of elections is the most powerful force on the planet…where all the cheating, twisting and spin starts…I have no use for Rove…he’s one good example of why elections are now a dysfunctional circus….he’s done nothing but line his own pockets, but that’s the point, right?

    All that money does go somewhere, after all…


  6. 6 | November 12, 2012 3:10 pm

    @ lobo91:

    He did his part to stimulate the economy!


  7. 7 | November 12, 2012 3:10 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    He is a washed up blowhard as is Dick Morris.

    Rove is a loser.


  8. Speranza
    8 | November 12, 2012 3:13 pm

    “Anybody who says that Karl Rove is somehow diminished or marginalized is not thinking clearly. He is a well-regarded, well-respected organizer and analyst, and he will continue to be so,” former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty told POLITICO.

    A reason why that mealy mouthed mush who allowed a nutbag such as Michele Bachmann beat him up -- was not on the ticket.


  9. Speranza
    9 | November 12, 2012 3:14 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    He is a washed up blowhard as is Dick Morris.

    Rove is a loser.

    Remember how on this blog when we would rip on Rove (and the family from Texas) we would get excoriated? Well I guess we were right. Rove and the Bushies malignant influence still lived.


  10. 10 | November 12, 2012 3:14 pm

    @ Speranza:

    The GOP Establishment needs to get out of its bubble.


  11. 11 | November 12, 2012 3:15 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Yup, its funny how many people defended this loser.


  12. Speranza
    12 | November 12, 2012 3:15 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Yup, its funny how many people defended this loser.

    Don’t worry -- Jeb Porky Bush will rescue yes.


  13. heysoos
    13 | November 12, 2012 3:16 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    the marketing aspect of elections is the most powerful force on the planet…where all the cheating, twisting and spin starts…I have no use for Rove…he’s one good example of why elections are now a dysfunctional circus….he’s done nothing but line his own pockets, but that’s the point, right?

    All that money does go somewhere, after all…

    in America you can talk and make millions, devise a toy to look at pictures and make a billion…but to try and actually make something people need or perform a service like digging a hole, building a house, or repairing a flat, you are likely to be poor or go broke….collecting and selling worthless information is where the money is


  14. 14 | November 12, 2012 3:18 pm

    @ Rodan:

    Rove has certainly outlived his usefulness. I question how anyone could have ever thought that the “architect” of 2000′s near-defeat could be considered a great player in the game of politics. The Republicans (and Republican donors) have better things to do withtheir time and money, although 2016 looks to be the functional end of America anyway. I don’t know that we particularly want to take over the Federal Government once the debt is that deep. There’s no attractive option for getting out once we hit 150% GDP. We can’t raise that money through taxes. It would collapse the economy. We can’t print the money. That would collapse the economy. We can’t simply defautl because that, too, will collapse the economy. This election was the make-or-break point. We had to win this one, or lose the entire game. Might as well let Deval Patrick or whomever go down in history as the President that lost it all, though Obama will be the one who actually wrote the checks that paid us into penury…


  15. 15 | November 12, 2012 3:19 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Watch how many people will support Jeb if he runs. He’ll use some red meat issue to get support. That family cynically uses people.


  16. Guggi
    16 | November 12, 2012 3:20 pm

    With so many people depend on any kind of government transfer payments, there is no working strategy other than to promise more and more and more of the same.


  17. 17 | November 12, 2012 3:21 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    The media will begin pushing Deval Patrick soon enough, watch.


  18. Speranza
    18 | November 12, 2012 3:21 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Watch how many people will support Jeb if he runs. He’ll use some red meat issue to get support. That family cynically uses people.

    Yeah “I pledge to support and promote the concept that families ought to sit down together for dinner every night”. Looks like Porky sits down to a few dinners every day himself.


  19. RIX
    19 | November 12, 2012 3:21 pm

    Whatever criticism is warranted of Rove goes double for
    Dick Morrris.
    He predicted a Romney popular & electoral landslide!
    Can anybody remember the last time that he was right?


  20. lobo91
    20 | November 12, 2012 3:21 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Might as well let Deval Patrick or whomever go down in history as the President that lost it all, though Obama will be the one who actually wrote the checks that paid us into penury…

    We all know that’s not going to happen.

    The history books are written by the leftist academic establishment, after all.

    They’ll blame Bush and Reagan. Obama and Patrick will be portrayed as noble public servants who valiantly tried to solve the problem.


  21. Speranza
    21 | November 12, 2012 3:22 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    The media will begin pushing Deval Patrick soon enough, watch.

    LGF sure will.


  22. Guggi
    22 | November 12, 2012 3:22 pm

    I can’t stand this Bush bashing any longer.


  23. Speranza
    23 | November 12, 2012 3:23 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Whatever criticism is warranted of Rove goes double for
    Dick Morrris.
    He predicted a Romney popular & electoral landslide!
    Can anybody remember the last time that he was right?

    No I cannot recall the last time he got anything right. Also Palin and Santorum frankly contribute nothing (neither does Trump and McCain). More Mark Steyn and less Michelle Malkin!


  24. 24 | November 12, 2012 3:24 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    That family cynically uses people.

    All politicians cynically use people. They aren’t good people, any of them. My issue with Bush is that there is no way he can win the Presidency. None whatsoever. The Bush name is forever tainted. That is the legacy of W choosing not to fight the smears that doomed his Presidency to be regarded as a failure. Bush really wasn’t that bad a President, but he refused time and again to fight the MFM that spent its career defaming him, and as such will always be regarded as a failed President.

    Jeb Bush can’t win. If Nominated, he’ll lose in a landslide. That said, nobody that wins will be able to pull us out of the nosedive that Obama has put us in. Nobody.


  25. Speranza
    25 | November 12, 2012 3:25 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    That is the legacy of W choosing not to fight the smears that doomed his Presidency to be regarded as a failure. Bush really wasn’t that bad a President, but he refused time and again to fight the MFM that spent its career defaming him, and as such will always be regarded as a failed President.

    Correctamundo!


  26. 26 | November 12, 2012 3:27 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    My issue with Bush is that there is no way he can win the Presidency.

    Tell that to the GOP Establishment. They already are getting ready to push Jeb.


  27. RIX
    27 | November 12, 2012 3:27 pm

    @ Speranza:

    No I cannot recall the last time he got anything right. Also Palin and Santorum frankly contribute nothing (neither does Trump and McCain). More Mark Steyn and less Michelle Malkin!

    But it’s very lucrative being wrong.


  28. 28 | November 12, 2012 3:27 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Yeah “I pledge to support and promote the concept that families ought to sit down together for dinner every night”.

    Jeb would push that to get votes.


  29. lobo91
    29 | November 12, 2012 3:28 pm

    I’m pretty sure that I saw Michelle Malkin at yesterday’s gun show.


  30. 30 | November 12, 2012 3:29 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Ah, but the History books that are written in the remanents of the United States may tell a different story. Look at what is likely to survive: the Old South as a Republic, Texas as an Independant nation, the Left Coast, and the Northeast. The middle part of the country is already depopulating. That will increase if America breaks up. Certainly the Left Coast and the Northeast will remember history their way (though they will also likely be as successful as North Korea at socialism), but the Old South and the Republic of Texas will likely remember things truly. Leftism is doomed to fail, as it has shown repeatedly everywhere it has been implemented. That will include in higher education. Instapundit calls it the Higher Education Bubble, and it is already on the verge of collapse. When the economy collapses, people won’t barter important things like food for Leftist drivel.


  31. 31 | November 12, 2012 3:30 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I’ll wait to see what 2014 brings in. I imagine it will be much like 2010.


  32. RIX
    32 | November 12, 2012 3:31 pm

    @ lobo91:

    The history books are written by the leftist academic establishment, after all.

    Ain’t dat da troof.
    I never read in any history book that the Japanese ended the Depression,
    not FDR.


  33. Tanker
    33 | November 12, 2012 3:31 pm

    Rove is a loser, and so is all the other talking heads of the Republican Party! We can blame and pick apart all we want, but none of it means much. We just keep eating our own..which may not be wrong!

    I talked to a friend of mine in Philly recently that told me the fraud is what has to be fixed. When the voting public has no confidence in the system set up for voting they will stay home and not vote. PA and OH should be the battle ground for fixing this problem, but it won’t be. Keep in mind that both these states have a Rep Gov., yet you don’t here any plans to figure out what happened.

    I live in a state that has voter ID and has for many years, but they switched to a voting system that reads a paper ballot this year. I have no way of knowing how that machine read my ballot. When I asked if there was a way for me to verify it registered what my votes where, I was told there wasn’t. Does this give me confidence in the system…NO.


  34. 34 | November 12, 2012 3:32 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    As long as Republicans shun Rove.


  35. lobo91
    35 | November 12, 2012 3:32 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Did you see the login message I posted on the prior thread?


  36. Speranza
    36 | November 12, 2012 3:33 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    I’ll wait to see what 2014 brings in. I imagine it will be much like 2010.

    We cannot be fooled by off year elections.
    Maybe we will learn something about the value of nominating disciplined and focused candidates unlike Buck, Angle, O’Donnell, Akin and Mourdock (who sounds like a Dickensian villain). Candidates who will run far, far away about questions of rape/abortion.


  37. Speranza
    37 | November 12, 2012 3:34 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:
    As long as Republicans shun Rove.

    Not only shun him but piss on him.


  38. Speranza
    38 | November 12, 2012 3:35 pm

    Nice to see Tim Pawlenty has his lips on Kaiser Karl’s butt.


  39. lobo91
    39 | November 12, 2012 3:36 pm

    @ Tanker:

    I live in a state that has voter ID and has for many years, but they switched to a voting system that reads a paper ballot this year. I have no way of knowing how that machine read my ballot. When I asked if there was a way for me to verify it registered what my votes where, I was told there wasn’t. Does this give me confidence in the system…NO.

    You have even less verification with the electronic touch screen machines.

    Just because you pushed a button that said Romney doesn’t mean that’s what the system recorded.

    And the people in charge have no way of knowing it, either. Only the technicians who do the actual work really know.


  40. heysoos
    40 | November 12, 2012 3:37 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:
    @ Iron Fist:
    I’ll wait to see what 2014 brings in. I imagine it will be much like 2010.

    We cannot be fooled by off year elections.
    Maybe we will learn something about the value of nominating disciplined and focused candidates unlike Buck, Angle, O’Donnell, Akin and Mourdock (who sounds like a Dickensian villain).

    I did not much care for Romney per se, but the GOP has got to rid itself of the pop lunatics like Santorum, Bachman and the rest of those clowns…there are millions of conservatives that have no use for fringe or extreme attitudes…people like me that cringe every time these people argue the merits of marriage, abortion etc, using the Bible as their foundation for law


  41. 41 | November 12, 2012 3:37 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    We’ll see. It’ll be another oppertunity to take the Senate. I think we’ll need to focus on that and holding the House. It is two years to that, though, and they are going to be two long, hard years. I always say Politics is War (because it is). The next two years are going to be like 1915-1916 in France and Germany. Long, hard, and grim.


  42. Speranza
    42 | November 12, 2012 3:38 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    I can’t stand this Bush bashing any longer.

    Explain this love for that God awful political family (if you can). Bush lead directly to Obama. Deny that.


  43. Tanker
    43 | November 12, 2012 3:39 pm

    @ lobo91:

    So true! He who counts the vote rules!


  44. RIX
    44 | November 12, 2012 3:40 pm

    @ Speranza:

    We cannot be fooled by off year elections.
    Maybe we will learn something about the value of nominating disciplined and focused candidates unlike Buck, Angle, O’Donnell, Akin and Mourdock (who sounds like a Dickensian villain). Candidates who will run far, far away about questions of rape/abortion

    The Tea Party has done some really good things, that’s how
    the Republicans captured the House.
    But they did foist some nuts on us.
    They learn from it and all things considered they are a positive.


  45. Speranza
    45 | November 12, 2012 3:41 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    I did not much care for Romney per se, but the GOP has got to rid itself of the pop lunatics like Santorum, Bachman and the rest of those clowns…there are millions of conservatives that have no use for fringe or extreme attitudes…people like me that cringe every time these people argue the merits of marriage, abortion etc, using the Bible as their foundation for law

    Cain, Santorum and Bachmann (and yes Luap Nor)wasted a lot of energy, time and money that Romney could have put to better use.

    9-9-9!


  46. Speranza
    46 | November 12, 2012 3:42 pm

    RIX wrote:

    The Tea Party has done some really good things, that’s how
    the Republicans captured the House.
    But they did foist some nuts on us.
    They learn from it and all things considered they are a positive.

    That “lesson” cost us dearly!


  47. lobo91
    47 | November 12, 2012 3:43 pm

    Tanker wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    So true! He who counts the vote rules!

    I prefer the optically scanned paper ballots, personally. At least with those it’s possible to manually compare the ballots to what the machine said the count was.

    How do you do a recount of touch screen ballots?


  48. 48 | November 12, 2012 3:43 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    And the people in charge have no way of knowing it, either. Only the technicians who do the actual work really know.

    It is certainly quite feasible.

    It really would be quite easy to program a machine to read, say, every fifth vote for Romney as a vote for Obama. It wouldn’t take a big conspiracy to do it, either. The coder himself, and the one or two people who review/QA his work would be about all it would take. If you have some parallelism in the system, say an audit trail that does a check for consistency, then you’d need twice as many people,perhaps, but you really wouldn’t need all that many people to do it, and the only way they could be found out would be a line-by-line audit of the code itself. Knowing that you’d only need to do that in a few states to throw the election makes it a lot more tempting a target than, say, registering 100,000 dead people and finding 25,000 people to vote four extra times for all the dead.


  49. 49 | November 12, 2012 3:44 pm

    @ Speranza:

    So much better to just accept who the Party Elders annoint! Kiss the Bush Ring now….


  50. lobo91
    50 | November 12, 2012 3:45 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    It really would be quite easy to program a machine to read, say, every fifth vote for Romney as a vote for Obama. It wouldn’t take a big conspiracy to do it, either. The coder himself, and the one or two people who review/QA his work would be about all it would take.

    Exactly. It’s not like the supervisor of elections, county clerk, or whoever is “in charge” of the election would know what was going on. They aren’t computer people. They’re bureaucrats.


  51. 51 | November 12, 2012 3:46 pm

    @ Rodan:

    Yep -- they were on that MSLSD “Morning Schmoe” waste of airtime bemoaning how a Bush couldn’t win the primaries.

    WTF? They’ve WON the Presidency twice, morons -- it would appear to me that the Primaries are the least of their problems.


  52. RIX
    52 | November 12, 2012 3:49 pm

    @ Speranza:

    That “lesson” cost us dearly!

    They made mistakes, no doubt.
    But they have shown more fight than main stream Republicans.


  53. coldwarrior
    53 | November 12, 2012 3:49 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    There’s no attractive option for getting out once we hit 150% GDP. We can’t raise that money through taxes. It would collapse the economy. We can’t print the money. That would collapse the economy. We can’t simply defautl because that, too, will collapse the economy. This election was the make-or-break point.

    you could grow gdp by leaps and bounds by removing regulation and keeping tax/spend in check.


  54. Tanker
    54 | November 12, 2012 3:50 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    I did not much care for Romney per se, but the GOP has got to rid itself of the pop lunatics like Santorum, Bachman and the rest of those clowns…there are millions of conservatives that have no use for fringe or extreme attitudes…people like me that cringe every time these people argue the merits of marriage, abortion etc, using the Bible as their foundation for law
    Cain, Santorum and Bachmann (and yes Luap Nor)wasted a lot of energy, time and money that Romney could have put to better use.
    9-9-9!

    I don’t disagree with you on any of these people, though I liked Cain until he got stuck on 9-9-9. Although Romney was never going to win no matter how much money he had.

    Does your statement mean we should just except the nominee the Party wants? I don’t think you mean it that way! Do we not have a nomination process? Answers, are what we are looking for, but I don’t think we are there yet!


  55. heysoos
    55 | November 12, 2012 3:50 pm

    the GOP needs to groom candidates expert in two fields, the economy and international affairs…when one is asked on their position regarding gay marriage, the reply might be…I have no official position that is outside of the responsibilities of the POTUS….we are getting down to the brass tacks here…if you think there will be a nominee that satisfies every gd social issue, you will be searching forever….these are not issues within the realm of the presidency and people need to understand that…there are around 330m Americans, they can figure out their personal problems locally and at the state level


  56. Guggi
    56 | November 12, 2012 3:53 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Guggi wrote:
    I can’t stand this Bush bashing any longer.
    Explain this love for that God awful political family (if you can). Bush lead directly to Obama. Deny that.

    Welcome to the “it’s all Bush’s fault comunity”. O. will be pleased that you agree with him so he can go on to say “it’s all Bush’s fault”.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid. Period.


  57. Speranza
    57 | November 12, 2012 3:55 pm

    Tanker wrote:

    Does your statement mean we should just except the nominee the Party wants? I don’t think you mean it that way! Do we not have a nomination process? Answers, are what we are looking for, but I don’t think we are there yet!

    No but we better damn well get some credible alternatives. In the sense that we had a chance to win, Romney was the man. None of his opponents would have gotten a single vote more then he did.


  58. buzzsawmonkey
    58 | November 12, 2012 3:55 pm

    Tanker wrote:

    I live in a state that has voter ID and has for many years, but they switched to a voting system that reads a paper ballot this year. I have no way of knowing how that machine read my ballot. When I asked if there was a way for me to verify it registered what my votes where, I was told there wasn’t. Does this give me confidence in the system…NO.

    We had the same system—mark a paper ballot, have it scanned into a machine.

    I didn’t like it, felt uneasy about it—but one of our tech people over at C2 explained that this is actually a low-tech form of counting, and that it has verification because, first, a marked paper ballot does exist, and second, the scanning machine merely records the marks as they were made.

    It is head and shoulders above the touch-screen electronic machines, which cannot be verified. Paper-ballot-and-scan is apparently accurate and not readily falsifiable.


  59. lobo91
    59 | November 12, 2012 3:56 pm

    @ Guggi:

    Welcome to the “it’s all Bush’s fault comunity”. O. will be pleased that you agree with him so he can go on to say “it’s all Bush’s fault”.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid. Period.

    Well, Obama did claim that he was going to bring everyone together. The left already blames Bush for everything, so I guess Obama was right.
    //


  60. Speranza
    60 | November 12, 2012 3:56 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    Welcome to the “it’s all Bush’s fault comunity”. O. will be pleased that you agree with him so he can go on to say “it’s all Bush’s fault”.

    Stupid, stupid, stupid. Period.

    Stupid stupid stupid is denying that he was an albatross around our heads and frankly claiming because he invoked God a lot that he was a conservative. The Democrats were not loyal to Jimmy Carter after his failed 1980 campaign.

    It was Bush who called Islam a religion of piss er I mean peace.
    Don’t give me that shit that O would be happy -- I gave Romney $105 effing dollars.


  61. lobo91
    61 | November 12, 2012 3:57 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Absolutely


  62. 62 | November 12, 2012 3:58 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    You could if you did it today. Four years from now it’ll be too late. It’d take a couple of years for cuttin gthe regulations to actually show up in the GDP, and you’d need to cut taxes in that period as well. You’ll have to cut services to the bone. Can it be done? You’re the economist, you tell me. Can it be politically done? Not a chance until it is too late. You won’t be able to slash services until we de facto default. I think they’ll probably try to hyperinflate us out of this hole, but that will collapse the economy. We’re like early Weimar Germany. We have too much debt to GDP. We can’t tax enough to hope to pay the debt off. We have to grow the economy first, but Obama and the Democrats won’t permit growth.


  63. coldwarrior
    63 | November 12, 2012 3:59 pm

    @ Tanker:

    PA has a voter ID system that reqires a state id to vote…oh wait, IT DID..see it didnt quite make it this time because one of the republican supreme court judge who got caught with her hand in the cookie jar and is now in jail. the law got held up in a court that was 4-3 conservative, but is now 3-3 because of this idiot.

    next election this system will be in place 100%

    their names are jane orie and her sister is state supreme court justice joan orie melvin.

    Authorities seized thousands of computer records from one of Orie’s district offices in mid-December 2009, as part of an investigation conducted by Allegheny County District Attorney Stephen Zappala. Zappala would not disclose to the public a reason for investigating Orie.[1]

    A story in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette alleged that the core of the investigation involves the employment of one of her district offices for campaign purposes.[2]

    The Post-Gazette subsequently reported that a University of Pittsburgh student intern had told prosecutors of widespread political campaigning inside the office on behalf of Orie’s sister, State Supreme Court Justice Joan Orie Melvin. The story also revealed the Orie’s chief of staff had begun cooperating with investigators.[3] Justice Melvin was later indicted on charges of misusing publicly-funded staff for political work on her two Supreme Court races.[10]


  64. Speranza
    64 | November 12, 2012 4:00 pm

    Nominate Jeb for all I care and then you can tell me how he is “the real conservative” in the Bush family (as my sister assured me about W. in 2000).


  65. heysoos
    65 | November 12, 2012 4:00 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Tanker wrote:
    I live in a state that has voter ID and has for many years, but they switched to a voting system that reads a paper ballot this year. I have no way of knowing how that machine read my ballot. When I asked if there was a way for me to verify it registered what my votes where, I was told there wasn’t. Does this give me confidence in the system…NO.
    We had the same system—mark a paper ballot, have it scanned into a machine.
    I didn’t like it, felt uneasy about it—but one of our tech people over at C2 explained that this is actually a low-tech form of counting, and that it has verification because, first, a marked paper ballot does exist, and second, the scanning machine merely records the marks as they were made.
    It is head and shoulders above the touch-screen electronic machines, which cannot be verified. Paper-ballot-and-scan is apparently accurate and not readily falsifiable.

    touchscreen machines was an invitation to fraud….when we can’t even get a friggin election right, how can a person have confidence in any other matter?….everything the feds touches turns to shit…I’m cynical, jaded, pissed and expect better from the gangsters we elect….the feds are like Clown School to me…I know there are political junkies here and all the discussion sounds important, but to me it’s all jive…we have a glorified shoe shine boy for president…how did that happen and how can we avoid it?….then he was re-p…thanks, but I’m not part of this shit


  66. Guggi
    66 | November 12, 2012 4:01 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    The left already blames Bush for everything

    Apparently not only the left. :-(


  67. Tanker
    67 | November 12, 2012 4:01 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    “this is actually a low-tech form of counting, and that it has verification because, first, a marked paper ballot does exist, and second, the scanning machine merely records the marks as they were made.”

    I understand that it does have paper ballots, but when I asked the person there what happen to those, I was told that they where destroyed once the election is called. Not sure that is correct, but again it doesn’t give me confidence!


  68. Guggi
    68 | November 12, 2012 4:02 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    The Democrats were not loyal to Jimmy Carter after his failed 1980 campaign.

    George W. Bush didn’t fail in two campaigns.


  69. lobo91
    69 | November 12, 2012 4:02 pm

    @ Tanker:

    I understand that it does have paper ballots, but when I asked the person there what happen to those, I was told that they where destroyed once the election is called. Not sure that is correct, but again it doesn’t give me confidence!

    They wouldn’t be destroyed until after all potential recounts or court challenges are complete. They’re evidence.


  70. Purre
    70 | November 12, 2012 4:07 pm

    I like the Finnish system. When we vote, we show our ID (Driver’s license, pasport, or photo ID. Any official ID with photo.), we go to the booth, look at the list of candidates and write his or her number to the folded paper we are given inside the circle printed in that paper. It is folded so that no one can see it when we leave the booth. Also, there’s sample numbers there so even most stupid people can just copy them and be understood. Now, from the booth we go to next official and again show our official ID. Then official puts stamp on top of the ballot paper. He also prints paper into we both sign our names thus affirming that I have used my vote. Both vote and this signature paper are sealed inside two separate envelopes and both envelopes are sealed inside third envelope. Voter then takes that envelope and puts it inside the ballot box. When processed, those envelopes are separated, so that no one will find out who voted whom. But there has to be in each area exactly same number of votes and signature papers.

    I prefer this system to any other I have heard about or read about.


  71. Lily
    71 | November 12, 2012 4:07 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    That family cynically uses people.

    All politicians cynically use people. They aren’t good people, any of them. My issue with Bush is that there is no way he can win the Presidency. None whatsoever. The Bush name is forever tainted. That is the legacy of W choosing not to fight the smears that doomed his Presidency to be regarded as a failure. Bush really wasn’t that bad a President, but he refused time and again to fight the MFM that spent its career defaming him, and as such will always be regarded as a failed President.

    Jeb Bush can’t win. If Nominated, he’ll lose in a landslide. That said, nobody that wins will be able to pull us out of the nosedive that Obama has put us in. Nobody.

    I kinda of agree with you here IF…the Bush name is tainted. Throwing another Bush in the mix in 2016 will be stupid. We need new blood not going back to the same ole same ole thing. We need someone new. If the GOP actually thinks Jeb is going to be a winning ticket they are seriously wrong.


  72. coldwarrior
    72 | November 12, 2012 4:09 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    a massive cut in regulations would be seen on the balance sheets in less than 2 quarters.

    hold spending and taxes till later when the economy gets moving and draw down what you need to eat away at the debt. a larger gdp means more revenue going into the govt. the trick is interest rates and the bond market. a couple more downgrades and we are done.

    cut regs and free up the economy will hold off the downgrades (higher interest rates) or reverse those downgrades that would already be in place.

    if you can grow the econ at 8-10% a quarter (its possible if you get govt out of the way) then you have a larger economy to play with in a year. keep paring away at regs while freeing up resources and keeping an eye on sp[ending and paying off the debt and we can be in pretty good shape in about 10-15 years after these plans are executed.

    holding the line on spending and paying off the existing debt is key.


  73. buzzsawmonkey
    73 | November 12, 2012 4:10 pm

    Tanker wrote:

    I understand that it does have paper ballots, but when I asked the person there what happen to those, I was told that they where destroyed once the election is called. Not sure that is correct, but again it doesn’t give me confidence!

    There is very little difference between scanning a paper ballot and marking one’s vote in an old-fashioned voting machine. It is the wholly-electronic voting, the touch-screen voting, that is the real problem.

    Even paper ballots can be gamed—not only can they be illegally marked and added to the pile, but there is the example of 2000, where the “hanging chads” were, apparently, in some cases created by party workers dumping ballots they wished to invalidate upon racks which had nails in them, positioned to create questionable punches.


  74. Tanker
    74 | November 12, 2012 4:13 pm

    Purre wrote:

    I like the Finnish system. When we vote, we show our ID (Driver’s license, pasport, or photo ID. Any official ID with photo.), we go to the booth, look at the list of candidates and write his or her number to the folded paper we are given inside the circle printed in that paper. It is folded so that no one can see it when we leave the booth. Also, there’s sample numbers there so even most stupid people can just copy them and be understood. Now, from the booth we go to next official and again show our official ID. Then official puts stamp on top of the ballot paper. He also prints paper into we both sign our names thus affirming that I have used my vote. Both vote and this signature paper are sealed inside two separate envelopes and both envelopes are sealed inside third envelope. Voter then takes that envelope and puts it inside the ballot box. When processed, those envelopes are separated, so that no one will find out who voted whom. But there has to be in each area exactly same number of votes and signature papers.
    I prefer this system to any other I have heard about or read about.

    That may work with small populations. I don’t think it would here though. The time and shear volume of paper used would mean we wouldn’t know anything for months! Strict paper ballots can be stuffed in boxes (think Al Franken).


  75. Lily
    75 | November 12, 2012 4:14 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Tanker:

    I live in a state that has voter ID and has for many years, but they switched to a voting system that reads a paper ballot this year. I have no way of knowing how that machine read my ballot. When I asked if there was a way for me to verify it registered what my votes where, I was told there wasn’t. Does this give me confidence in the system…NO.

    You have even less verification with the electronic touch screen machines.

    Just because you pushed a button that said Romney doesn’t mean that’s what the system recorded.

    And the people in charge have no way of knowing it, either. Only the technicians who do the actual work really know.

    And this is truly depressing the vote in my opinion. Too many people this election thought their vote wouldn’t count….are they wrong? If people think their vote doesn’t count we have a serious problem to go along with all the other serious problems we already have. Even our military (if they were even given ballots) thought that their vote wouldn’t count and wouldn’t matter because of massive voter fraud. Something needs to be fixed..but I don’t see anyone standing up. Other than Allen West in Florida who isn’t going down without a fight to the end.


  76. buzzsawmonkey
    76 | November 12, 2012 4:15 pm

    I understand that Democratic websites are all carrying Thanksgiving recipes for ballot-box stuffing.


  77. RIX
    77 | November 12, 2012 4:17 pm

    Here’s my question, in the last two national elections a
    majority voted for big government.
    How does a Republican counter that?
    “I’m for big government too!”


  78. Tanker
    78 | November 12, 2012 4:18 pm

    Lily wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Tanker:
    I live in a state that has voter ID and has for many years, but they switched to a voting system that reads a paper ballot this year. I have no way of knowing how that machine read my ballot. When I asked if there was a way for me to verify it registered what my votes where, I was told there wasn’t. Does this give me confidence in the system…NO.
    You have even less verification with the electronic touch screen machines.
    Just because you pushed a button that said Romney doesn’t mean that’s what the system recorded.
    And the people in charge have no way of knowing it, either. Only the technicians who do the actual work really know.

    And this is truly depressing the vote in my opinion. Too many people this election thought their vote wouldn’t count….are they wrong? If people think their vote doesn’t count we have a serious problem to go along with all the other serious problems we already have. Even our military (if they were even given ballots) thought that their vote wouldn’t count and wouldn’t matter because of massive voter fraud. Something needs to be fixed..but I don’t see anyone standing up. Other than Allen West in Florida who isn’t going down without a fight to the end.

    Until we get more people standing up, nothing will change! Where is the Republican party of PA, OH, and FL on this issue!


  79. Guggi
    79 | November 12, 2012 4:20 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Here’s my question, in the last two national elections a
    majority voted for big government.
    How does a Republican counter that?
    “I’m for big government too!”

    That is the big problem. You can’t counter it and we Europeans have experience with this and your welfare system is even more expensive and less efficient than ours.


  80. Purre
    80 | November 12, 2012 4:21 pm

    @ Tanker:
    We have 5 million people and while I don’t recall exact times, the counting starts sometime in the afternoon (precast votes), with regular votes counted starting at… 6pm? 8 pm? Something like that. By midnight we have everything done. I’d say you would have (assuming same proportion of organization per population) everything counted and clear next day.


  81. Lily
    81 | November 12, 2012 4:21 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Guggi wrote:

    I can’t stand this Bush bashing any longer.

    Explain this love for that God awful political family (if you can). Bush lead directly to Obama. Deny that.

    A little harsh here…people voted in obama for hope and change and free shit. Face it …it was a turn for a Democrat to become the next American president because of 8 years of Republicans and the media demonizing Bush. Blame, blame, blame, blame, blame on Bush all you want you sound like other people who continue to blame Bush for our problems..Obama owns this. Explain the fact that after seeing a full 4 years of obama and this country STILL ELECTED OBAMA. People want free shit and people don’t want to hear the truth.
    Since I am totally out synch here on this subject …let the bashing of me begin.


  82. 82 | November 12, 2012 4:21 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    We use that method for our municipal elections. For our federal and provincial elections it’s a paper ballot where you mark your choice on the paper. X marks the spot so to speak. All hand counted and each one is given an identifying number to track the paper ballots. All voters manually drop the ballot into the ballot box. No one else is allowed to touch it once you have marked it before dropping it into the ballot box. Only in special cases is it allowed.


  83. 83 | November 12, 2012 4:22 pm

    @ Guggi:

    Bush failed as President and gave us Obama. The Bush family destroyed the GOP’s reputation. That’s why Obama’s “It’s all Bush’s fault” works. They were failures like LBJ and Carter.

    Republicans need to formally distance themselves from those losers.


  84. 84 | November 12, 2012 4:24 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    Yep — they were on that MSLSD “Morning Schmoe” waste of airtime bemoaning how a Bush couldn’t win the primaries.
    WTF? They’ve WON the Presidency twice, morons — it would appear to me that the Primaries are the least of their problems.

    The Bush’s won the Presidency twice, but they ruined the GOP’s reputation when they governed. If Jeb is the nominee, I will vote Libertarian. I’ve had it with that family.


  85. Tanker
    85 | November 12, 2012 4:25 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Here’s my question, in the last two national elections a
    majority voted for big government.
    How does a Republican counter that?
    “I’m for big government too!”

    The only counter we have is when the system collapses! Otherwise no counter will mean anything. When the checks stop, the system can be repaired!


  86. 86 | November 12, 2012 4:25 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Did you see the login message I posted on the prior thread?

    I heard it wasn’t the army email system but a personal gmail account.


  87. Speranza
    87 | November 12, 2012 4:25 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Since I am totally out synch here on this subject …let the bashing of me begin.

    Actually I’m the one out of synch here but I don’t care.
    Bush lead directly to Obama -- his refusal to defend himself left a lot of people wondering if maybe those attacks on him by the Left had some truth in them.


  88. lobo91
    88 | November 12, 2012 4:25 pm

    @ PaladinPhil:

    Yeah, but you guys have what, 12 people up there?

    You could just have everyone raise their hands :)


  89. 89 | November 12, 2012 4:25 pm

    @ Lily:

    One way to move forward is for Conservative to admit Bush was a failure and distance ourselves from that family.

    Poppy and W were Not Conservative anyway. I don’t get this emotional attachment to that family.


  90. 90 | November 12, 2012 4:27 pm

    @ Speranza:

    I don’t get the emotional attachment to that family.


  91. Lily
    91 | November 12, 2012 4:27 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Nominate Jeb for all I care and then you can tell me how he is “the real conservative” in the Bush family (as my sister assured me about W. in 2000).

    Would you have perferred Gore in 2000? Look the Bush bashing isn’t helping it’s done and over. We have obama now ….go ahead and blame Bush for everything wrong. Will it change things. No. I’m not defending Bush but damn he isn’t president anymore. Nor was he running for president last week either.


  92. 92 | November 12, 2012 4:27 pm

    Tanker wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    lobo91 wrote:
    @ Tanker:
    I live in a state that has voter ID and has for many years, but they switched to a voting system that reads a paper ballot this year. I have no way of knowing how that machine read my ballot. When I asked if there was a way for me to verify it registered what my votes where, I was told there wasn’t. Does this give me confidence in the system…NO.
    You have even less verification with the electronic touch screen machines.
    Just because you pushed a button that said Romney doesn’t mean that’s what the system recorded.
    And the people in charge have no way of knowing it, either. Only the technicians who do the actual work really know.
    And this is truly depressing the vote in my opinion. Too many people this election thought their vote wouldn’t count….are they wrong? If people think their vote doesn’t count we have a serious problem to go along with all the other serious problems we already have. Even our military (if they were even given ballots) thought that their vote wouldn’t count and wouldn’t matter because of massive voter fraud. Something needs to be fixed..but I don’t see anyone standing up. Other than Allen West in Florida who isn’t going down without a fight to the end.

    Until we get more people standing up, nothing will change! Where is the Republican party of PA, OH, and FL on this issue!

    They’re useless.

    Tanker wrote:

    Purre wrote:
    I like the Finnish system. When we vote, we show our ID (Driver’s license, pasport, or photo ID. Any official ID with photo.), we go to the booth, look at the list of candidates and write his or her number to the folded paper we are given inside the circle printed in that paper. It is folded so that no one can see it when we leave the booth. Also, there’s sample numbers there so even most stupid people can just copy them and be understood. Now, from the booth we go to next official and again show our official ID. Then official puts stamp on top of the ballot paper. He also prints paper into we both sign our names thus affirming that I have used my vote. Both vote and this signature paper are sealed inside two separate envelopes and both envelopes are sealed inside third envelope. Voter then takes that envelope and puts it inside the ballot box. When processed, those envelopes are separated, so that no one will find out who voted whom. But there has to be in each area exactly same number of votes and signature papers.
    I prefer this system to any other I have heard about or read about.

    That may work with small populations. I don’t think it would here though. The time and shear volume of paper used would mean we wouldn’t know anything for months! Strict paper ballots can be stuffed in boxes (think Al Franken).

    It would cost a lot more, but it would still be do-able. I’d rather wait a few weeks for the ballot counting/audit to be complete and know that the election was on the up-and-up, than have the results right away and know that the election must have been stolen.

    OF COURSE it would cost more. But then, freedom isn’t free, not even in the monetary sense.


  93. buzzsawmonkey
    93 | November 12, 2012 4:27 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    I don’t get this emotional attachment to [the Bush] family.

    “We want—a shrubbery!”

    —the Knights who say “Ni!”


  94. lobo91
    94 | November 12, 2012 4:28 pm

    @ Lily:

    Would you have perferred Gore in 2000?

    Or Kerry in 2004?


  95. 95 | November 12, 2012 4:28 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    :lol:


  96. Lily
    96 | November 12, 2012 4:29 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    The left already blames Bush for everything

    Apparently not only the left.

    Actually you are correct ….. if the GOP continues to eat it’s own they done for. And NO I DON’T WANT JEB IN 2016!


  97. 97 | November 12, 2012 4:29 pm

    @ Guggi:
    I’m with Guggi.


  98. 98 | November 12, 2012 4:30 pm

    @ Lily:

    And NO I DON’T WANT JEB IN 2016!

    You may not, but the GOP Establishment does.


  99. 99 | November 12, 2012 4:31 pm

    @ lobo91:
    You wound us good sir, wounded to the quick. Seriously though. It’s still pretty fast especially in our large population centers. Part of your voting issues though is all the amendments, bylaws, and other stuff you all vote on at the same time. All we vote for is leaders, boards, and councils. Then again, it’s all part of the grand American experiment.


  100. Lily
    100 | November 12, 2012 4:32 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Here’s my question, in the last two national elections a
    majority voted for big government.
    How does a Republican counter that?
    “I’m for big government too!”

    Bingo! You have it right there. How do you counter it??? You can’t? Not without becoming the same as who you are running against.


  101. lobo91
    101 | November 12, 2012 4:33 pm

    @ PaladinPhil:

    Part of your voting issues though is all the amendments, bylaws, and other stuff you all vote on at the same time. All we vote for is leaders, boards, and councils. Then again, it’s all part of the grand American experiment.

    Some of the ballots here were ridiculous. Florida’s was a good example. It was taking many people 45 minutes to fill out their ballots.


  102. Lily
    102 | November 12, 2012 4:33 pm

    Tanker wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Tanker:
    I live in a state that has voter ID and has for many years, but they switched to a voting system that reads a paper ballot this year. I have no way of knowing how that machine read my ballot. When I asked if there was a way for me to verify it registered what my votes where, I was told there wasn’t. Does this give me confidence in the system…NO.
    You have even less verification with the electronic touch screen machines.
    Just because you pushed a button that said Romney doesn’t mean that’s what the system recorded.
    And the people in charge have no way of knowing it, either. Only the technicians who do the actual work really know.

    And this is truly depressing the vote in my opinion. Too many people this election thought their vote wouldn’t count….are they wrong? If people think their vote doesn’t count we have a serious problem to go along with all the other serious problems we already have. Even our military (if they were even given ballots) thought that their vote wouldn’t count and wouldn’t matter because of massive voter fraud. Something needs to be fixed..but I don’t see anyone standing up. Other than Allen West in Florida who isn’t going down without a fight to the end.

    Until we get more people standing up, nothing will change! Where is the Republican party of PA, OH, and FL on this issue!

    Excatly the numbers are not adding up and why aren’t they standing up like Allen West is???


  103. Purre
    103 | November 12, 2012 4:34 pm

    @ 1389AD:
    I am convinced that it can be done in relatively quick time without sacrificing accuracy or giving chance for frauds -- it just requires good discipline and preparation from the organization. I’ve never been part of election organization, but I have been part of other organizations that have handled similar problems both in military and in scientific settings, and we’ve had always good results due to excellent preparedness.


  104. RIX
    104 | November 12, 2012 4:35 pm

    @ Guggi:

    That is the big problem. You can’t counter it and we Europeans have experience with this and your welfare system is even more expensive and less efficient than ours

    And that’s the quandary.
    People have been conditioned to believe that they have a
    right ton the stuff of their fellow citizens.
    The Dem Party is the facilitator.
    If you rob Peter to pay Paul, Paul will never complain


  105. Guggi
    105 | November 12, 2012 4:35 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Guggi:
    Bush failed as President and gave us Obama. The Bush family destroyed the GOP’s reputation. That’s why Obama’s “It’s all Bush’s fault” works. They were failures like LBJ and Carter.
    Republicans need to formally distance themselves from those losers.

    What was Nixon ? The bright Republican in the room ? I don’t see that Carter or Johnson are despised by democrats.

    You won’t get the perfect Republican for President. Face it.


  106. buzzsawmonkey
    106 | November 12, 2012 4:35 pm

    “My government is bigger than yours!”

    —new American boast


  107. Tanker
    107 | November 12, 2012 4:36 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Lily:
    And NO I DON’T WANT JEB IN 2016!
    You may not, but the GOP Establishment does.

    If that is true and we have no say in the matter, then all is truly lost.

    I proudly voted for Bush, both times. Not going to say he did all the right things (Many wrong actually), but he was far better than the other choices we had.

    He is gone, and we need to let it go and move on! I will never vote for JEB though!


  108. lobo91
    108 | November 12, 2012 4:36 pm

    @ Lily:

    That’s why there aren’t going to be any actual cuts in any government spending, despite all the talk.

    Every program the government spends money on equates to someone’s livelihood. Even stupid crap like RoboSquirrel or shrimp treadmills.

    Whatever someone proposes to cut is going to be met with “You want (fill in the blank constituent) to die!”


  109. Lily
    109 | November 12, 2012 4:37 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Guggi:

    Bush failed as President and gave us Obama. The Bush family destroyed the GOP’s reputation. That’s why Obama’s “It’s all Bush’s fault” works. They were failures like LBJ and Carter.

    Republicans need to formally distance themselves from those losers.

    I don’t think that is so…then why didn’t Clinton ruin it for all of the democrats..in fact why in the hell didn’t obama ruin it for the democrats..he was horrible.. yet the people voted him back in ..blame the people who voted for this loser and their lack of morals in voting for him.


  110. buzzsawmonkey
    110 | November 12, 2012 4:37 pm

    Now that Big Bird has helped Obama get re-elected, thereby proving that the electorate is composed of children, I expect that Permit the Frog will be instrumental in introducing us to all the Administration’s new regulations.


  111. 111 | November 12, 2012 4:38 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    holding the line on spending and paying off the existing debt is key.

    Neither of which is going to happen with Obama in charge. We can’t merely hold the line on spending, though. Right now we are spending more than a trillion dollars a year more than we are taking in. Budget cuts, real, meaningful cuts, have to come first. And politically those simply aren’t going to fly. We can’t take all that money out of DoD. They don’t have enough budget to cut, not even if we cut all of it. That money has to come out of the Welfare State. It has to. And the inner city will explode when that happens. These people aren’t used to being told no. Bush didn’t tell them no anywhere near enough, and Obama hasn’t told them no at all. Tell them that we are cutting food stamps back to the Clinton era (no slacker on welfare benefits himself), and they will scream. Tell them you are cutting other services, and they will riot. Put down the riots hard, and the American people won’t be able to vote you out of office fast enough. No, politically none of that will happen, even if we elect Rubio next time. It won’t happen until after we’ve hit the wall, that is. Once the money runs out, it is gone. They’ll still riot. Greece is a good example of that, but that’ll just be part of the wheels coming off the economy for good. The best case scenario? We fall apart peacefully, like the former Soviet Union. Everything else is worse. Places like Detroit will become uninhabitable, and Dearbornistan will become indistinguishable from Afghanistan.


  112. Tanker
    112 | November 12, 2012 4:41 pm

    Purre wrote:

    @ 1389AD:
    I am convinced that it can be done in relatively quick time without sacrificing accuracy or giving chance for frauds — it just requires good discipline and preparation from the organization. I’ve never been part of election organization, but I have been part of other organizations that have handled similar problems both in military and in scientific settings, and we’ve had always good results due to excellent preparedness.

    I’m afraid you are making assumptions that everyone wants a fair election. If fraud wins, there are many who will find ways to game any system. How it is monitored for me is the answered and when things done seem right, they usually aren’t!


  113. 113 | November 12, 2012 4:41 pm

    @ Lily:

    Bill Clinton left office at the tail end of the 90′s boom. People associate Clinton with peace and prosperity. People don’t associate Bush with that.


  114. coldwarrior
    114 | November 12, 2012 4:41 pm

    @ Lily:

    ge here

    click on PA.

    scroll over some of the red counties around PGH, this was all blue not a generation ago

    now look at bucks and montgomery over by phillie.

    there does not need to be vote fraud when the phillie burbs are blue.

    we need to run a real conservative.

    where is the PA gop? well, its winning the state for the congress, the state house, the governor, one senator, 4/3 on the supreme court, al;most all of the counties.

    pa is a lot less blue than it used to be.


  115. Lily
    115 | November 12, 2012 4:42 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Since I am totally out synch here on this subject …let the bashing of me begin.

    Actually I’m the one out of synch here but I don’t care.
    Bush lead directly to Obama — his refusal to defend himself left a lot of people wondering if maybe those attacks on him by the Left had some truth in them.

    Second guessing what would have happened if he did defend himself? To be honest more bashing of him. That was a lose-lose situation in my opinion. From what I have seen through many of years watching presidental elections they flip-flop…Republicans this time, Democrats the next time. What the real issue is why in the hell after 4 years of obama did people re-elect him? And the media is running with Romney ran a negative campaign!!! Good heavens obama did that but Romney gets the blame. Blame the people who voted for obama. Obama should have been a fluke and a one and done..


  116. 116 | November 12, 2012 4:43 pm

    @ Guggi:

    What was Nixon ? The bright Republican in the room ? I don’t see that Carter or Johnson are despised by democrats.

    The GOP did shun Nixon after he left office. The Democrats did shun LBJ and Carter after they left office. It’s only in recent years that The Dems have embraced Carter.

    Whether you want to admit it or not, The Bush family damaged the Republican brand. They are political failures and its time to bury them with the past.


  117. Purre
    117 | November 12, 2012 4:44 pm

    @ Tanker:
    There has to be oversight from each party and from outside the parties, that is for certain. And events like driving any of them away would force the elections to be redone in that particular district. There has to be zero tolerance on irregularities.


  118. coldwarrior
    118 | November 12, 2012 4:44 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Neither of which is going to happen with Obama in charge.

    now if he really wanted to kill the gop, he would do just that. de-regualte and hold the line.

    that would grow the econ and destroy the gop for a good few cycles. he’s an ideologue tho not a politician like clinton, so he wont.


  119. Lily
    119 | November 12, 2012 4:45 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Lily:

    One way to move forward is for Conservative to admit Bush was a failure and distance ourselves from that family.

    Poppy and W were Not Conservative anyway. I don’t get this emotional attachment to that family.

    I have no emotional attachment to the family and I certainly do not want another Bush on the ticket. Jeb doesn’t stand a chance in my opinion. He will not be able to last through the primaries. But this G.W.Bush bashing because obama won 4 more years is just redundant right now.


  120. 120 | November 12, 2012 4:45 pm

    @ Tanker:

    I only voted for Bush the 2nd time because Kerry was a traitor. I never liked Bush Republicanism and never will.


  121. buzzsawmonkey
    121 | November 12, 2012 4:45 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Obama should have been a fluke

    Well, he had one campaigning for him…


  122. Lily
    122 | November 12, 2012 4:45 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:

    I don’t get the emotional attachment to that family.

    REPEAT….NO attachment to the family.


  123. 123 | November 12, 2012 4:46 pm

    @ Lily:

    Bush gave us Obama and we need to formally distance ourselves from that family.

    One good way to start is to tell Karl Rove to screw off.


  124. Lily
    124 | November 12, 2012 4:47 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:

    Would you have perferred Gore in 2000?

    Or Kerry in 2004?

    Excatly. He wasn’t the president the last 4 years …obama was.


  125. buzzsawmonkey
    125 | November 12, 2012 4:47 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Bush gave us Obama

    Obama was coming anyway: the Left has been grooming their Destroyer for a long time.


  126. Lily
    126 | November 12, 2012 4:49 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Lily:

    And NO I DON’T WANT JEB IN 2016!

    You may not, but the GOP Establishment does.

    Doesn’t mean he will make it through the primaries though…we are trying to read the future here on 2016. A lot can happen between now and then. A HELL OF A LOT.


  127. 127 | November 12, 2012 4:51 pm

    @ Rodan:
    Why bury the topic when you’ll just dig it up again and again in order to bash the entire family again and again.


  128. 128 | November 12, 2012 4:53 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    He thinks he has a mandate to turn us into Zimbabwe . What he has is a mandate for more free shit. When we go broke, parts of what remain will curse his name, but he’ll be a hero in the little North Koreas on the Left coast and in the Northeast.


  129. 129 | November 12, 2012 4:54 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    I have become Obama, Destroyer of Liberties!


  130. lobo91
    130 | November 12, 2012 4:54 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    Why bury the topic when you’ll just dig it up again and again in order to bash the entire family again and again.

    Sort of like Jason or Michael Myers…


  131. Lily
    131 | November 12, 2012 4:54 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:

    That’s why there aren’t going to be any actual cuts in any government spending, despite all the talk.

    Every program the government spends money on equates to someone’s livelihood. Even stupid crap like RoboSquirrel or shrimp treadmills.

    Whatever someone proposes to cut is going to be met with “You want (fill in the blank constituent) to die!”

    Once the genie is let out of the bottle it is hard to get it back in.


  132. Guggi
    132 | November 12, 2012 4:55 pm

    Obama’s Dirty Little Secret to Winning the 2012 Presidential Election

    (…)

    The sad reality is the lavishly funded ad campaigns worked as intended. A report from a monitoring agency at Wesleyan University suggests that an astonishing 85 percent of all campaign commercials by the Obama campaign and allied groups featured negative messages about Romney. These attack ads aren’t supposed to inspire your people to go to the polls; they’re meant to dissuade the other guy’s supporters from going to the polls. The purpose of negative advertising is to discourage, not encourage, voting.
    The advertising avalanche by the Democrats highlighted Romney’s wealth, offshore bank accounts, job-exporting background at Bain Capital, expensive Olympics horse, bad singing voice, mistreatment of his dog, unpublished tax returns, murder-by-cancer of a steelworker’s wife, and general heartlessness and cluelessness. The Obama team knew full well that such messages would never persuade committed partisans to switch support from the Republicans to the Democrats and could even alienate a few of their own backers, particularly women, with their overall nastiness. But if the ugly tone of the campaign kept right-leaning independents or even undecided voters away from the polls then it would be worth it, shrinking the field of potential recruits Romney needed to close the gap and win the election.
    In short, the impact of such an unpleasant campaign almost always will prove more damaging to a challenger trying to attract new votes than to an incumbent who needs only to hold on to the bulk of his old base.


  133. lobo91
    133 | November 12, 2012 4:56 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    He thinks he has a mandate to turn us into Zimbabwe . What he has is a mandate for more free shit. When we go broke, parts of what remain will curse his name, but he’ll be a hero in the little North Koreas on the Left coast and in the Northeast.

    Maybe they’ll finally replace that Lenin statue in Seattle…


  134. 134 | November 12, 2012 4:56 pm

    @ lobo91:
    I’m just tired of it. We ALL lost. There’s plenty of blame to go around. Focusing on the an entire family who haven’t been in power for 4 years is a little weird.


  135. Lily
    135 | November 12, 2012 4:56 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Now that Big Bird has helped Obama get re-elected, thereby proving that the electorate is composed of children, I expect that Permit the Frog will be instrumental in introducing us to all the Administration’s new regulations.

    Oh so right when Big Bird is more of an issue than trillions of dollars in debt and millions of people out of work and Americans dying under obama’s watch is more important you could put the most perfect candidate up and he will lose. Adults now days are children in their thinking.


  136. buzzsawmonkey
    136 | November 12, 2012 4:57 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Maybe they’ll finally replace that Lenin statue in Seattle…

    …with a mel-Lenin statue?


  137. 137 | November 12, 2012 4:59 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    The Left have wanted to destroy America my entire life. Clinton was more into the perks of the job than Ideology. Obama is all about the Ideology.


  138. buzzsawmonkey
    138 | November 12, 2012 5:00 pm

    @ Lily:

    Permit the Frog will explain to you that it’s not easy making “green” jobs…


  139. lobo91
    139 | November 12, 2012 5:01 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    I’m just tired of it. We ALL lost. There’s plenty of blame to go around. Focusing on the an entire family who haven’t been in power for 4 years is a little weird.

    If we’re going to blame Bush for Obama, we may as well blame Lincoln, too.


  140. Lily
    140 | November 12, 2012 5:01 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Lily:

    Bill Clinton left office at the tail end of the 90′s boom. People associate Clinton with peace and prosperity. People don’t associate Bush with that.

    Not denying that at all. Problem is why after 4 years of obama did he get re-elected..I can see blaming Bush for the first 4 years but after this election no. obama like you said can do anything, break the law, collude with the enemy, spend billions on his family with our money and he gets re-elected. And I can go on and on about what obama has done wrong….yet here we are blaming Bush for all of it.
    Nope..it’s the people of the United States and obama that needs the blame.


  141. 141 | November 12, 2012 5:02 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I’ll go back and look. BRB.


  142. 142 | November 12, 2012 5:03 pm

    @ lobo91:
    Let’s just blame the founding fathers. Or God. Cut out all these middle men.


  143. Lily
    143 | November 12, 2012 5:03 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    It’s showing a blue state but running over the numbers would make it more of purple or so state.


  144. buzzsawmonkey
    144 | November 12, 2012 5:05 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    Let’s just blame the founding fathers. Or God. Cut out all these middle men.

    Blame it on the bossa nova, and its magic spell…


  145. Lily
    145 | November 12, 2012 5:05 pm

    @ Rodan:

    As long as we continue to talk about them they stay in the present.


  146. 146 | November 12, 2012 5:06 pm

    @ lobo91:
    Lincoln didn’t free any of Obama’s ancestors, but some of Obama’s ancestors may have sold some of Micheele’s…


  147. lobo91
    147 | November 12, 2012 5:06 pm

    Interesting…Bret Baier just reported that DNI Clapper asked Petraeus to resign.


  148. Lily
    148 | November 12, 2012 5:06 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Neither of which is going to happen with Obama in charge.

    now if he really wanted to kill the gop, he would do just that. de-regualte and hold the line.

    that would grow the econ and destroy the gop for a good few cycles. he’s an ideologue tho not a politician like clinton, so he wont.

    No I don’t think he wants he anything good for this country.


  149. Lily
    149 | November 12, 2012 5:08 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Obama should have been a fluke

    Well, he had one campaigning for him…

    Yep why I put fluke there. :lol:


  150. buzzsawmonkey
    150 | November 12, 2012 5:09 pm

    from the archives:

    Just Blame the Bush Administration
    —apologies to Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil, and “Blame It On the Bossa Nova“

    When I was elected I increased the debt
    Way up to a height it never went to yet
    Now my head is bumping on the debt ceiling
    And to the citizens I am appealing

    I blame the Bush Administration
    And the Republicans
    Just blame the Bush Administration
    For failure of my plans
    Though I’ve been in office for more than two years
    When time to take responsibility appears
    I blame the Bush Administration
    For my failures

    (Was it the Stimulus?)
    No, the Bush Administration
    (My healthcare measures?)
    No, the Bush Administration
    (Renewing old tax cuts?)
    Yeah, the Bush Administration
    (Not my failures)

    Now I am threatening to default
    Saying that there’s no money in the vault
    If I don’t pay Social Security
    Remember that you should not blame me

    Just blame the Bush Administration
    And the Republicans
    Yes, blame the Bush Administration
    Not my socialist plans
    Though it really is my own profligacy
    That has emptied out the Treasury
    I blame the Bush Administration
    For my failures

    (Was it my green jobs scam?)
    No, the Bush Administration
    (My Libyan adventure?)
    No, the Bush Administration
    (War in Afghanistan?)
    Yes, the Bush Administration
    (Not my failures)

    (Was it the Stimulus?)
    No, the Bush Administration
    (My healthcare measures?)

    (Fade out)

    No, the Bush Administration
    (Renewing old tax cuts?)
    Yeah, the Bush Administration
    (Not my failures)
    No, the Bush Administration
    Not my failures…


  151. Lily
    151 | November 12, 2012 5:09 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Lily:

    Bush gave us Obama and we need to formally distance ourselves from that family.

    One good way to start is to tell Karl Rove to screw off.

    Hey I have no disagrement there..but blaming Bush for obama’s re-election just doesn’t fly..like I said sure the first 4 years have at it…this time around blame the voters.


  152. coldwarrior
    152 | November 12, 2012 5:09 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    It’s showing a blue state but running over the numbers would make it more of purple or so state.

    click on PA to bring it up.

    then look at the counties i mentioned


  153. Lily
    153 | November 12, 2012 5:11 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    Bush gave us Obama

    Obama was coming anyway: the Left has been grooming their Destroyer for a long time.

    Yes he was and he duped voters into voting for him…but the second time they weren’t duped they willingly voted for him knowing he has divided this country like no other president in recent times.


  154. Lily
    154 | November 12, 2012 5:15 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    I’m just tired of it. We ALL lost. There’s plenty of blame to go around. Focusing on the an entire family who haven’t been in power for 4 years is a little weird.

    Yes it does.


  155. Lily
    155 | November 12, 2012 5:17 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    :lol: Puppets are more important now days aren’t they??


  156. buzzsawmonkey
    156 | November 12, 2012 5:17 pm

    Lily wrote:

    but the second time they weren’t duped they willingly voted for him knowing he has divided this country like no other president in recent times.

    You don’t think that the Left, having groomed their Destroyer and moved mountains to get this unqualified bozo into position, was going to let him be casually booted out, do you? The same plans that got him in in the first place were laid to keep him where he is. The Left was playing for the long haul, not election-by-election; they had four years in which to work with a complicit press and government largesse to ensure that he’d stay put.


  157. Lily
    157 | November 12, 2012 5:20 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    It’s showing a blue state but running over the numbers would make it more of purple or so state.

    click on PA to bring it up.

    then look at the counties i mentioned

    What a minute…I clicked on the counties and most of the state looks red…why then is it showing blue.


  158. coldwarrior
    158 | November 12, 2012 5:23 pm

    Lily wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    @ coldwarrior:
    It’s showing a blue state but running over the numbers would make it more of purple or so state.
    click on PA to bring it up.
    then look at the counties i mentioned

    What a minute…I clicked on the counties and most of the state looks red…why then is it showing blue.

    4 counties/phillie in the east over rode the rest of the state


  159. 159 | November 12, 2012 5:23 pm

    Lily wrote:

    And the media is running with Romney ran a negative campaign!!! Good heavens obama did that but Romney gets the blame.

    Romney ran a negative campaign all right -- too bad it was ONLY against his GOP primary challengers.

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    Lincoln didn’t free any of Obama’s ancestors, but some of Obama’s ancestors may have sold some of Micheele’s…

    Are you referring to Obama’s white ancestors or Obama’s Muslim ancestors? If the former, dunno about that one way or the other. If the latter, that’s a chip shot! Muslims are slave traders and human traffickers everywhere in the world where they operate.


  160. 160 | November 12, 2012 5:25 pm

    Lily wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Rodan wrote:
    Bush gave us Obama
    Obama was coming anyway: the Left has been grooming their Destroyer for a long time.

    Yes he was and he duped voters into voting for him…but the second time they weren’t duped they willingly voted for him knowing he has divided this country like no other president in recent times.

    Some voted for him willingly; others had their votes CHANGED without their knowledge. Ballot box stuffing is a lot easier now that the box is virtual.


  161. 161 | November 12, 2012 5:28 pm

    @ 1389AD:
    I was referring to his Muslim ancestors. Islam is all about Slavery. It is the religion of slavery.


  162. Lily
    162 | November 12, 2012 5:30 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    but the second time they weren’t duped they willingly voted for him knowing he has divided this country like no other president in recent times.

    You don’t think that the Left, having groomed their Destroyer and moved mountains to get this unqualified bozo into position, was going to let him be casually booted out, do you? The same plans that got him in in the first place were laid to keep him where he is. The Left was playing for the long haul, not election-by-election; they had four years in which to work with a complicit press and government largesse to ensure that he’d stay put.

    Indeed…I wonder what would have happened if the MSM wasn’t so in the tank for him and basically lying to the people to boot. No I was fooled that the people of this country actually got a real look at this president and saw his commie colors. Nope according to the press and the pundits just to critizise this president you were either racist or evil.


  163. lobo91
    163 | November 12, 2012 5:30 pm

    Paula Broadwell apparently worked for Swiss firearms manufacturer Kriss Arms as a consultant/model:


  164. Lily
    164 | November 12, 2012 5:31 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    @ coldwarrior:
    It’s showing a blue state but running over the numbers would make it more of purple or so state.
    click on PA to bring it up.
    then look at the counties i mentioned

    What a minute…I clicked on the counties and most of the state looks red…why then is it showing blue.

    4 counties/phillie in the east over rode the rest of the state

    Unbelievable.


  165. lobo91
    165 | November 12, 2012 5:32 pm

    @ Lily:

    Same thing here in Colorado. The map is all red, except for the Denver metro area.


  166. lobo91
    166 | November 12, 2012 5:34 pm

    “Screw compromise! Nobody ever asks the left to compromise. All I want from the left is for them to stop calling me a racist homophobe.”

    --Greg Gutfeld


  167. Lily
    167 | November 12, 2012 5:34 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I find that odd. How can one or four counties turn a state blue when the rest of the state is red?


  168. lobo91
    168 | November 12, 2012 5:36 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    I find that odd. How can one or four counties turn a state blue when the rest of the state is red?

    It’s all about population density.


  169. 169 | November 12, 2012 5:36 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:

    Same thing here in Colorado. The map is all red, except for the Denver metro area.

    Remember the cities was all the population Obama was interested in. He said he had no interesting the suburbs. Rural people don’t even register for him.


  170. 170 | November 12, 2012 5:38 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    I find that odd. How can one or four counties turn a state blue when the rest of the state is red?

    It’s all about population density.

    Is it time to change winner take all?


  171. 171 | November 12, 2012 5:38 pm

    @ Rodan:

    Whether you want to admit it or not, The Bush family damaged the Republican brand. They are political failures and its time to bury them with the past.

    Kinda hard to do when you insist on digging them up at least once a day…


  172. lobo91
    172 | November 12, 2012 5:38 pm

    @ Lily:

    It’s not like counties all have equal population.

    I remember seeing the returns on one of the local channels. There was one county where the total number of ballots cast was something like 750.

    Meanwhile, the Denver metro area has about 2 million people spread over several counties.


  173. Lily
    173 | November 12, 2012 5:38 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:

    Same thing here in Colorado. The map is all red, except for the Denver metro area.

    Click on Louisiana and there are some blue parishes but we went red.
    From what I can tell those blue parishes aren’t rural either.


  174. 174 | November 12, 2012 5:39 pm

    @ Lily:
    Numbers. The high-density urban areas have so many more people. It didn’t happen here in Tennessee because we have such a large population rurally compared to our big cities, but in states with lower population outside the cities the cities rule.


  175. lobo91
    175 | November 12, 2012 5:40 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:

    Same thing here in Colorado. The map is all red, except for the Denver metro area.

    Remember the cities was all the population Obama was interested in. He said he had no interesting the suburbs. Rural people don’t even register for him.

    I don’t recall him coming to Colorado Springs. Romney and Ryan came here several times.

    Romney got somewhere in the high 60% range here.


  176. 176 | November 12, 2012 5:40 pm

    @ Kirly:

    What, proportional representation and enfranchisement? Off to the camps with you!

    Wear warm clothes. Bring potato and shovel.


  177. Lily
    177 | November 12, 2012 5:40 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    I find that odd. How can one or four counties turn a state blue when the rest of the state is red?

    It’s all about population density.

    Yep and obama got the cities…not the rural areas…why in the hell would people in the city vote for him other than to keep free stuff.


  178. lobo91
    178 | November 12, 2012 5:41 pm

    @ Mike C.:

    Kinda hard to do when you insist on digging them up at least once a day…

    Zombie Bush…


  179. 179 | November 12, 2012 5:41 pm

    @ Kirly:
    Bitter Clingers!!!11ty!!


  180. darkwords
    180 | November 12, 2012 5:41 pm

    There were a lot of losers in the election. This guy was one of them.

    Rick Tyler, a former strategist for the pro-Newt Gingrich super PAC and a top adviser to Todd Akin’s Missouri Senate campaign, called Crossroads’ efforts “a colossal failure” and asserted, “Rove has too much control over the purse strings.”

    I think Akin value to the US is about the same as Osama Bin Ladens.

    And if Karl Rove had just paid Buzzsawmonkey and Rodan to be election consultants and opened up his pocketbooks Romney would have won the election. It’s an ivory tower syndrome and lack of a common touch. No one identifies with that.

    Looking back and in hindsight I would say it was fear of socons by women that left them with an OK I’ll take my chances with OBama vote.

    However unrealistic that fear was, these voters might in all likelihood trusted Romney but feared Akin and AKin supporters. It made the choice obvious for them.


  181. 181 | November 12, 2012 5:42 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Kirly:

    What, proportional representation and enfranchisement? Off to the camps with you!

    Wear warm clothes. Bring potato and shovel.

    I’m doomed.


  182. Lily
    182 | November 12, 2012 5:43 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Numbers. The high-density urban areas have so many more people. It didn’t happen here in Tennessee because we have such a large population rurally compared to our big cities, but in states with lower population outside the cities the cities rule.

    So it seems. Wasn’t there lower turn-out too in both Republican’s and Democrats too? This I find odd since this election was so important. I was thinking landslide voter turn-out and was totally wrong.


  183. lobo91
    183 | November 12, 2012 5:43 pm

    @ Kirly:

    Is it time to change winner take all?

    Yes. The electoral votes should be divided up by Congressional district, since that’s how they’re apportioned in the first place. Whoever wins the popular vote in the state gets the other 2 votes.

    Obama probably would have gotten 6 electoral votes from Colorado that way, instead of 9.


  184. buzzsawmonkey
    184 | November 12, 2012 5:44 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    And if Karl Rove had just paid Buzzsawmonkey and Rodan to be election consultants and opened up his pocketbooks Romney would have won the election.

    I don’t know what I did/said to make you say so, but I’ll take the compliment humbly and gratefully.


  185. 185 | November 12, 2012 5:44 pm

    @ Mike C.:

    They are Socialist fraudsters and Conservatives need to distance ourselves from that family.

    If I was attacking Cater, no one would bat an eye. But ST. George, Oh my god heretic!


  186. 186 | November 12, 2012 5:44 pm

    @ darkwords:
    Well, I hope they enjoy aborting their fetuses. Without a job because unemployment is going to get a lot higher…


  187. darkwords
    187 | November 12, 2012 5:45 pm

    @ 22 Guggi: I’m a big GWB fan and have no problems with his father. Both were men for their time. GWB did a good job on the war on terror, my complaints with him would be.

    1. Didn’t have enough wisdom about FRank/Dodd collapsing the economy.
    2. Clueless about social justice perps.
    3. Didn’t pardon the two border agents immediately.
    4. The last two years of his office he became a metrosexual. Too much time on the coast.

    But other than that I think his presidency will bear the test of time. We might dislike the machine. But it takes one to win.


  188. 188 | November 12, 2012 5:45 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Kirly:

    Is it time to change winner take all?

    Yes. The electoral votes should be divided up by Congressional district, since that’s how they’re apportioned in the first place. Whoever wins the popular vote in the state gets the other 2 votes.

    Obama probably would have gotten 6 electoral votes from Colorado that way, instead of 9.

    I used to be dead-set against changing but I’m considering reconsidering.


  189. 189 | November 12, 2012 5:45 pm

    @ darkwords:

    If the GOP took my advise, they would in in a 40 state blowout. I know exactly how Progressives think and how to get under their skin. Plus I have no qualms on going dirty against the Left.


  190. buzzsawmonkey
    190 | November 12, 2012 5:45 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Well, I hope they enjoy aborting their fetuses.

    The Democrats are the party of Moloch, holding fetuses to the fire…


  191. 191 | November 12, 2012 5:46 pm

    @ Kirly:

    I am for dividing up electoral votes proportionally.


  192. darkwords
    192 | November 12, 2012 5:47 pm

    @ 25 Speranza:I agree with that. Was thinking it yesterday. I think GWB planted the seeds and helped the harvest that weakened the GoP. Not enough negative campaigning.


  193. Tanker
    193 | November 12, 2012 5:47 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    There were a lot of losers in the election. This guy was one of them.
    Rick Tyler, a former strategist for the pro-Newt Gingrich super PAC and a top adviser to Todd Akin’s Missouri Senate campaign, called Crossroads’ efforts “a colossal failure” and asserted, “Rove has too much control over the purse strings.”
    I think Akin value to the US is about the same as Osama Bin Ladens.
    And if Karl Rove had just paid Buzzsawmonkey and Rodan to be election consultants and opened up his pocketbooks Romney would have won the election. It’s an ivory tower syndrome and lack of a common touch. No one identifies with that.
    Looking back and in hindsight I would say it was fear of socons by women that left them with an OK I’ll take my chances with OBama vote.
    However unrealistic that fear was, these voters might in all likelihood trusted Romney but feared Akin and AKin supporters. It made the choice obvious for them.

    Just goes to show you can’t fix stupid. From either side. Akin was stupid and voting for Obama was stupid!


  194. 194 | November 12, 2012 5:47 pm

    @ Lily:
    Read my post under headlines. I cover some of the numbers. It was really a very close election. Turn less than 500K votes in the right states and you change the outcome.


  195. 195 | November 12, 2012 5:47 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Mike C.:

    They are Socialist fraudsters and Conservatives need to distance ourselves from that family.

    If I was attacking Cater, no one would bat an eye. But ST. George, Oh my god heretic!

    Funny, the only one labeling him a Saint here is you. And I see no one defending him as passionately you hate the entire family. So, what did you say?


  196. 196 | November 12, 2012 5:48 pm

    @ Tanker:

    Obama has the media and popular culture going for him. The economy didn’t matter in this election.


  197. lobo91
    197 | November 12, 2012 5:48 pm

    @ Kirly:

    I used to be dead-set against changing but I’m considering reconsidering.

    The whole point of the Electoral College is to prevent candidates from campaigning in a handful of large states and ignoring the rest of the country.

    Even within those states, though, they mostly campaign in a few big cities.

    Did Obama campaign anywhere more than 10 miles from the ocean in California?


  198. Lily
    198 | November 12, 2012 5:49 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Mike C.:

    They are Socialist fraudsters and Conservatives need to distance ourselves from that family.

    If I was attacking Cater, no one would bat an eye. But ST. George, Oh my god heretic!

    Carter is history too…that’s the point Bush is history…and no where did I say I think Bush was a Saint or was perfect. I’m saying we are past that. You have totally mis-understood my posts. Bush hasn’t been in office the past 4 years obama has.


  199. 199 | November 12, 2012 5:50 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ darkwords:

    If the GOP took my advise, they would in in a 40 state blowout. I know exactly how Progressives think and how to get under their skin. Plus I have no qualms on going dirty against the Left.

    Well then I suggest you set about establishing your reputation and credibility so you can be the voice of authority in the next presidential election. You’ve got 4 years. Ranting on a blog doesn’t count.


  200. Lily
    200 | November 12, 2012 5:50 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ darkwords:
    Well, I hope they enjoy aborting their fetuses. Without a job because unemployment is going to get a lot higher…

    Yep it started the very next day after obama was elected.


  201. darkwords
    201 | November 12, 2012 5:51 pm

    @ 58 buzzsawmonkey: I liked the idea someone had of voting at an ATM machine. Facial recognition and a pinned vote. You could even email the vote to an escrow agency where you could recheck that you were counted right.


  202. 202 | November 12, 2012 5:52 pm

    @ Kirly:

    Karl Rove is one of their henchmen. The elites are pushing Jeb. They refuse to leave the scene, so that makes them fair game. Just like Clinton and his Muslim Brotherhood loving wife are fair game.

    All politicians are fair games.


  203. 204 | November 12, 2012 5:54 pm

    @ Kirly:

    Do you really think the GOP would listen to me? They are set in their ways and love playing the gentleman’s role, while the Democrats stomp all over them.


  204. Lily
    205 | November 12, 2012 5:54 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ darkwords:

    If the GOP took my advise, they would in in a 40 state blowout. I know exactly how Progressives think and how to get under their skin. Plus I have no qualms on going dirty against the Left.

    And people are complaining now the campaign was too dirty especially by Romney..when obama ran the dirty campaign. You are under-estimating what you have said before..obama can do anything and can get away with it. It could have back-fired in a big way. There is no one thing here that would have fixed this…like you often say obama is god-like to too many people.


  205. Lily
    206 | November 12, 2012 5:55 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 25 Speranza:I agree with that. Was thinking it yesterday. I think GWB planted the seeds and helped the harvest that weakened the GoP. Not enough negative campaigning.

    Sounds like an obama ad.


  206. 207 | November 12, 2012 5:56 pm

    @ Rodan:
    If it isn’t clear to you yet, I think you’re bonkers with a continuing, irrational hatred of an entire family. The other day I or someone posted that a nephew of GWB had filed to run for something in Fort Worth and you started a hate filled rant that you still haven’t rested from.


  207. Tanker
    208 | November 12, 2012 5:57 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 58 buzzsawmonkey: I liked the idea someone had of voting at an ATM machine. Facial recognition and a pinned vote. You could even email the vote to an escrow agency where you could recheck that you were counted right.

    Somewhat like I have said needs to be done with the military. I find it really hard to understand with the technology we have today, that we can’t find a secure way for the military serving overseas to vote online!


  208. Lily
    209 | November 12, 2012 5:57 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Read my post under headlines. I cover some of the numbers. It was really a very close election. Turn less than 500K votes in the right states and you change the outcome.

    I read it and am amazed at how you break it down. Excellent job. ;)


  209. 210 | November 12, 2012 5:57 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Kirly:

    Do you really think the GOP would listen to me? They are set in their ways and love playing the gentleman’s role, while the Democrats stomp all over them.

    Not as long as you can’t get past these hateful rants, no.


  210. 211 | November 12, 2012 6:00 pm

    @ Kirly:

    I don’t like Socialists.


  211. 212 | November 12, 2012 6:00 pm

    @ Kirly:

    If I was ranting about the Clintons, Carter or LBJ, would that be OK?


  212. 213 | November 12, 2012 6:02 pm

    New Thread.


  213. Lily
    214 | November 12, 2012 6:02 pm

    @ Rodan:

    History…except for Hillary …and she will too be history.


  214. 215 | November 12, 2012 6:03 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Kirly:

    If I was ranting about the Clintons, Carter or LBJ, would that be OK?

    Strawman.
    What good is all this hate doing? None!!! It’s tearing the conservatives apart unnecessarily.


  215. darkwords
    216 | November 12, 2012 6:05 pm

    @ 199 Kirly: It’s the idea, how do you make an idea flow and move people? Commenting on a blog like this is a good start or a foundation. Just that there is tough competition at this level to rise above the noise.


  216. Lily
    217 | November 12, 2012 6:05 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Kirly:

    If I was ranting about the Clintons, Carter or LBJ, would that be OK?

    Strawman.
    What good is all this hate doing? None!!! It’s tearing the conservatives apart unnecessarily.

    This is excatly what happened with Romney…he wasn’t good enough for some. Don’t need to eat our own.


  217. 218 | November 12, 2012 6:07 pm

    Not one Romney/Ryan vote in Philly. Not one. How is that even possible??


  218. 219 | November 12, 2012 6:07 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Kirly:
    I used to be dead-set against changing but I’m considering reconsidering.
    The whole point of the Electoral College is to prevent candidates from campaigning in a handful of large states and ignoring the rest of the country.
    Even within those states, though, they mostly campaign in a few big cities.
    Did Obama campaign anywhere more than 10 miles from the ocean in California?

    It is One HELL of a lot easier to steal votes in a concentrated municipal area rather than in a lot of scattered rural areas.


  219. Lily
    220 | November 12, 2012 6:08 pm

    Urban Infidel wrote:

    Not one Romney/Ryan vote in Philly. Not one. How is that even possible??

    Odd isn’t it?


  220. darkwords
    221 | November 12, 2012 6:08 pm

    @ 205 Lily: The way to fix that is starting running negative ads on TV against Obama now and every day til the next election. Make people think about the negative. Obama is fighting like radical islam fights. Peace means peace to muslims only. You must compromise completely to his side or you will be labeled evil. that is essentially how evil functions.


  221. coldwarrior
    222 | November 12, 2012 6:09 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    Looking back and in hindsight I would say it was fear of socons by women that left them with an OK I’ll take my chances with OBama vote.

    However unrealistic that fear was, these voters might in all likelihood trusted Romney but feared Akin and AKin supporters. It made the choice obvious for them.

    the ‘legitimate rape’ thing was quoted to me by obama voters.

    these are professional women who voted for the republican for congress, and complain that their taxes are too high!


  222. 223 | November 12, 2012 6:10 pm

    Urban Infidel wrote:

    Not one Romney/Ryan vote in Philly. Not one. How is that even possible??

    It isn’t.

    To me, the big issue is VOTE FRAUD.

    The fact that, except for LTC Allen West, the rest of the GOP completely rolled over and played dead on this issue, is a scandal to me.

    If people KNOW that it doesn’t do any good for them to vote because the election is outrageously rigged, what’s the point?

    I have a whole collection of articles on this. With rolling updates!


  223. Lily
    224 | November 12, 2012 6:11 pm

    @ darkwords:

    I have never found that to defeat evil is to become evil. Doesn’t work. What needs to be happening is not ads but the damn truth to be reported in the media. The TRUTH defeats EVIL. Not evil against evil.


  224. darkwords
    225 | November 12, 2012 6:12 pm

    @ 206 Lily:
    no it doesn’t. :-) What I am saying is the last two years of GWB he got too sensitive about hurting the feelings of the left and felt a presidential need to reach across the isle to govern for all. And then I am saying the left took advantage of that and exploited his good nature. And his reply was to be more Christian and retire from the battlefield. GWB knows a lot and maybe that was the best choice for him. I am saying that hurt the GoP though for him not to have at least a reasoned response to the critics that would leave people something to chew on.


  225. 226 | November 12, 2012 6:12 pm

    @ Urban Infidel:

    Voter fraud is the most likely nswer. Groupthink in the Inner Cities is pretty lockstep, but surely, in a country that split nearly 50-50 on the issue, Philadelphia would have had some Romeney vote. Proving that it was voter fraud is probably not doable. No voter ID.


  226. darkwords
    227 | November 12, 2012 6:14 pm

    @ 208 Tanker:Kind of what that suggests to me is that the best way to move an election to be fair is going to be to accerlate the technology to make online voting happen. That is something I have always hated because I always loved election day and going to a poll and pulling a lever. One day, one vote. It all seems like so much impersonal crap to me now. lol


  227. Lily
    228 | November 12, 2012 6:15 pm

    @ darkwords:

    I don’t disagree..but it would not have mattered in the 2008 election.
    Bush had nothing to do with this last election. If voting for obama because “he cares more about the people” is why people voted ..you can’t bust that kind of stupid.


  228. darkwords
    229 | November 12, 2012 6:15 pm

    @ 209 Lily: What I worry about is that it looks like just 2 states could have swung to ROmney for the win. And that fraud prevented that.


  229. darkwords
    230 | November 12, 2012 6:18 pm

    @ 215 Kirly: It’s ok to burn right now. Out of the ashes someone more fire tested will appear and defeat the Obots. Maybe with a new zombie killing weapon.

    Rodan’s general point there is that there is a strain of thought at the National Level of the GoP that is killing conservatism. That is what Rove and the Bush family represent. I think they had their day and did well, but their style is not the future of the GoP.


  230. Lily
    231 | November 12, 2012 6:18 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 209 Lily: What I worry about is that it looks like just 2 states could have swung to ROmney for the win. And that fraud prevented that.

    I couldn’t agree with you more..fraud. But that is what obama is all about now isn’t it? I’m just sick of what happened and I’m sure DOJ will be all over it/NOT.


  231. coldwarrior
    232 | November 12, 2012 6:20 pm

    1389AD wrote:

    Urban Infidel wrote:
    Not one Romney/Ryan vote in Philly. Not one. How is that even possible??

    It isn’t.
    To me, the big issue is VOTE FRAUD.
    The fact that, except for LTC Allen West, the rest of the GOP completely rolled over and played dead on this issue, is a scandal to me.
    If people KNOW that it doesn’t do any good for them to vote because the election is outrageously rigged, what’s the point?
    I have a whole collection of articles on this. With rolling updates!

    yinz dont get PA politics, do yinz.

    20% votes for him in phillie and he still loses.

    he needed montgomery and bucks county and the T to cancel out phille.

    even if he gets 30% in phillie, which will never ever ever happen he still loses because the ‘burbs didnt show up for him. the fiscon-libertarian suburbanites stayed home. he lost motgomery by 60,000

    he lost by 300,000 votes statewide, low turnout by the gop failed to prevent the phillie dem machine from winning the day.


  232. Lily
    233 | November 12, 2012 6:22 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Totally got caught off guard with the low voter turn out too. Just wow.


  233. 234 | November 12, 2012 6:24 pm

    Food for thought.

    Clinton Eugene Curtis testified under oath, before the Ohio State legislature, that he wrote a program to rig elections. This program would flip the total vote from the real winner to the candidate who had been pre-selected to win by the electronic vote counting machines.


  234. buzzsawmonkey
    235 | November 12, 2012 6:26 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Voter fraud is the most likely nswer. Groupthink in the Inner Cities is pretty lockstep, but surely, in a country that split nearly 50-50 on the issue, Philadelphia would have had some Romeney vote.

    Black voters tend not to turn out on Election Day. OK, assume that turnout is higher because Obama is black, and/or because the inner cities want to defend their EBTs and Obamaphones. But a 99% turnout? Nope, not credible. That’s Stalin Country.


  235. darkwords
    236 | November 12, 2012 6:27 pm

    @ Lily:Yes is the long run good wins over evil. I don’t think it is evil to go negative on Obama about Benghazi or partial birth abortions or solyndra or fast and furious. We are not yet in altruistic times. We still have to fight battles. Part of beating evil making evil deceive itself. Then the application of light or truth as you would have it. Evil can’t choose good. History has shown though that you have to have a sacred place and you have to defend it with all your heart.

    The defeat of Japan was an area where a good nature did something people consider evil. Opposition can be a form of love. It can be necessary to reach out and stop an evil act by other means than pure love. So we might sin but we will have some grief about it and try to set things right.


  236. lobo91
    237 | November 12, 2012 6:28 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Black voters tend not to turn out on Election Day. OK, assume that turnout is higher because Obama is black, and/or because the inner cities want to defend their EBTs and Obamaphones. But a 99% turnout? Nope, not credible. That’s Stalin Country.

    Absolutely. It’s beyond credibility.


  237. 238 | November 12, 2012 6:36 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Mike C.:
    They are Socialist fraudsters and Conservatives need to distance ourselves from that family.
    If I was attacking Cater, no one would bat an eye. But ST. George, Oh my god heretic!

    I’d bet a healthy bunch of money you’ll be doing the same rant in 2016, 2020 and 2024. Sad…


  238. 239 | November 12, 2012 6:37 pm

    http://obamavoterfraud.blogspot.com/

    Barack Fucking Obama stole the primary from Hilary, so why not a general election? I think something stinks.


  239. lobo91
    240 | November 12, 2012 6:43 pm

    Urban Infidel wrote:

    http://obamavoterfraud.blogspot.com/

    Barack Fucking Obama stole the primary from Hilary, so why not a general election? I think something stinks.

    I would have been shocked if they didn’t try to steal the election.

    These are old school Democrats we’re talking about.

    It’s what they do.


  240. 241 | November 12, 2012 6:46 pm

    I think I’m gonna puke…

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-nativity-figurine-popular-italian-shops


  241. Lily
    242 | November 12, 2012 6:48 pm

    Urban Infidel wrote:

    http://obamavoterfraud.blogspot.com/

    Barack Fucking Obama stole the primary from Hilary, so why not a general election? I think something stinks.

    Why isn’t this all over the place?????


  242. Lily
    243 | November 12, 2012 6:51 pm

    @ Mike C.:

    That is sacrilegious!!!!!!


  243. darkwords
    244 | November 12, 2012 6:59 pm

    @ Lily:
    I wonder why people are afraid to call fraud. Do it like we do everything else, find one example and blow it up out of proportion.


  244. Speranza
    245 | November 12, 2012 7:00 pm

    Urban Infidel wrote:

    Not one Republican in all of Philadelphia?


  245. Speranza
    246 | November 12, 2012 7:02 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    Rodan’s general point there is that there is a strain of thought at the National Level of the GoP that is killing conservatism. That is what Rove and the Bush family represent. I think they had their day and did well, but their style is not the future of the GoP.

    Thank you! They definitely need to go away.


  246. 247 | November 12, 2012 7:10 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Urban Infidel wrote:
    Not one Republican in all of Philadelphia?

    I live in one of the most ridiculously liberal neighborhoods in Brooklyn. And even if I were the only one there would still be one vote.
    They are sloppy, lazy and arrogant to not have at least made it look like there were a handful of Romney voters in Philly.


  247. Fritz Katz
    248 | November 13, 2012 12:07 am

    @ Speranza:

    We cannot be fooled by off year elections.
    Maybe we will learn something about the value of nominating disciplined and focused candidates unlike Buck, Angle, O’Donnell, Akin and Mourdock (who sounds like a Dickensian villain). Candidates who will run far, far away about questions of rape/abortion.

    Mourdock was very good, almost perfect — a tea-party candidate — who made one stupid statement. Mourdock said when a woman gets pregnant from a rape it is “something that God intended.” And what did he say that was so stupid? That a child due to rape is still a human being?

    Actually true — pregnancy due to rape still results in a child — and if you believe that children are God’s creation, even a child due to rape is still one of God’s creations.

    It’s more scientifically accurate than Akin (who quoted some 1970s Planned Parenthood doctor) saying that a rape victim body shuts down and won’t allow an abortion.

    Mourdock apologized but apparently it’s we who can’t forgive.


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