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The Mier Expedition; Incident of the Black Bean

by huckfunn ( 209 Comments › )
Filed under History, Mexico, Open thread at November 13th, 2012 - 2:00 pm

 File:The Drawing of the Black Bean.jpg

Peace between Mexico and the Republic of Texas was fairly short-lived following Santa Ana’s defeat by the Texans at the Battle of San Jacinto in 1836. Santa Ana resumed power in Mexico in 1841 and soon thereafter ordered several nuisance raids into Texas. In two of these raids San Antonio was briefly occupied by Mexican troops. The “War Hawks” in the Texas Congress demanded that President Sam Houston take military action against Mexico. Reluctantly, Houston ordered General Alexander Somervell to take charge a group of volunteers who were gathering at San Antonio to avenge the Mexican attacks.

In his first action in March, 1842, Somervell proved to be an ineffectual commander and his command basically fell apart and the Texans returned to their homes. Following the second occupation of San Antonio, a group of 300 men under the command of William Fisher left Somervell’s command, crossed the Rio Grande and occupied the Mexican town of Mier. On Christmas Day, 1842, the Texans were surrounded by Mexican troops. The Texans battled all day long inflicting terrible losses upon the Mexicans. By the end of the day the Texans were out of food, water and ammunition and 200 of them surrendered to the Mexicans. During their forced march to a prison in Mexico City, most of them managed to escape but were soon recaptured.

Santa Ana ordered that all of the recaptured prisoners be executed. Francisco Mexia, Governor of Coahuila, interceded and asked that the lives of the captives be spared. Santa Ana relented, and ordered that the Texans be decimated. That is to say that every 10th man should be shot. The prisoners were ordered to pick a bean from a jar that contained 159 white beans and 17 black beans. Those drawing the black bean were summarily shot. The remainder were put to work on a road gang and then marched off to captivity in Vera Cruz.

I’ve recently been working in LaGrange, Texas which is the county seat of Fayette County. There are several monuments on the Courthouse lawn which commemorate the heroism of the men of the Mier Expedition and the massacre of Dawson’s men. Out of curiosity about this episode of Texas history, I read further on the subject and found that there are 2 schools of thought on the Mier Expedition. The traditional account tells of the heroic exploits of the brave men who went to Mexico to protect The Republic and exact justice for Mexican depredations against the city of San Antonio. A more recent study of the Meir Expedition portrays the Texans as a criminal mob bent on rape and pillage. This link offers several variations to an interesting episode in Texas History.

 The voluntary force that turned south on November 25 put even some ranger units to shame for its ugly element.  A few of the men were legitimate farmers or ranchers, but most were not….A few of the officers, such as Captain William S. Fisher (prominent in destroying the Cherokees), had led troops in several early battles.  Anyone who agreed to serve with Fisher would, he said, be rewarded by the richness of the land and the fatness thereof.”  Then there was Ewen Cameron, known as the “Attila of Texas,” a huge man who ran a large gang of horse thieves out of Goliad.  What made Cameron unusual was that among the three hundred to four hundred criminals in his party, he stuck out.  The gangs saw the Somervell expedition as a chance to expand their stealing operations.

The placid Somervell had little chance of controlling this mob.  But with his men swept up in the war hysteria, he had to either lead the army south or watch it leave on its own…The Texas volunteers pushed south to Laredo….Somervell placed the Texas flag in the town square and ordered his army to camp in a nearby ravine.

Early that evening…small groups of Texans left camp…and returned to Laredo.  Their numbers soon approached two hundred.  They looted the commissary stores first but found little in them.  Then they turned to the remaining townsfolk, almost all women.  They used logs to break down doors of private residences, herded the occupants out, and forced them to turn over all their valuables.  Many of the Mexican women were disrobed, some in public.  Others were attacked inside residences…Thomas Jefferson Green, one of the most flagrant violators, was overheard on several occasions saying: “Rake them down, boys; rake them down.” [This author assumed this referred to rape.]

Some troops, disgusted with this activity, left for home.  Others helped Somervell confiscate at least part of the loot; most of it was clothing, stacked to the height of a good-sized house.

The army was slowly breaking up as a result of the disorder and looting.  The 500 who remained followed Somvervell south to Guerrero, where more pillaging occurred.  Here a mutiny erupted in which 189 men followed Fisher, Cameron, and Green into the Mexican town of Mier.  These were the most desperate of men, led by the most depraved officers.  They ignored Somervell when he tried to stop their depredations.  Fortunately, Mexican general Pedro de Ampudia ended the rapine and violence by forcing the Texans to surrender after a vicious fight in the center of town that began on the morning of Christmas Day and lasted into the afternoon hours.  After the forces briefly escaped and were recaptured, Santa Anna ordered a peculiar but perhaps appropriate “trial”; the 170-odd prisoners were ordered to select beans from a pot.  The 17 who drew a black bean were promptly shot.

 

 

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209 Responses to “The Mier Expedition; Incident of the Black Bean”
( jump to bottom )

  1. Speranza
    1 | November 13, 2012 2:03 pm

    In his first action in March, 1832,

    That date does not sound right. Texas won its independence in 1836.


  2. Speranza
    2 | November 13, 2012 2:05 pm

    March 25, 1843.
    Santa Ana should have been hanged by Sam Houston after his capture at San Jacinto in 1836.


  3. huckfunn
    3 | November 13, 2012 2:06 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    That date does not sound right. Texas won its independence in 1836.

    Fixed.


  4. Speranza
  5. huckfunn
    5 | November 13, 2012 2:10 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    March 25, 1843.
    Santa Ana should have been hanged by Sam Houston after his capture at San Jacinto in 1836.

    Absolutely. Santa Ana continued to be a thorn in the side of the Republic of Texas, the State of Texas and then the U.S. Houston tried to do the right thing, but Santa Ana was not an honorable person.


  6. Speranza
    6 | November 13, 2012 2:11 pm

    People recall the Alamo but not the Goliad (La Bahia) Massacre six weeks later. No wonder the Texans massacred Mexicans who tried to surrender at San Jacinto.


  7. Speranza
    7 | November 13, 2012 2:13 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    March 25, 1843.
    Santa Ana should have been hanged by Sam Houston after his capture at San Jacinto in 1836.

    Absolutely. Santa Ana continued to be a thorn in the side of the Republic of Texas, the State of Texas and then the U.S. Houston tried to do the right thing, but Santa Ana was not an honorable person.

    The thing was he was so incomptetent that in a war he was in essence an asset to theAmericans because allihs military decisions bsaed on his exaggerated sense of his miltiary greatness was disastrous to themexican naiton.

    By the way the Mexican Army of that era was one of the finest military forces (trained on a European model and with many European officers) when properly lead -- when properly lead!!


  8. Speranza
    8 | November 13, 2012 2:14 pm

    In reality during the Mexican War of 1846-48 the Americans were in essence the underdogs.


  9. 9 | November 13, 2012 2:15 pm

    Didn’t red beans defeat the Black beans?R
    :lol:


  10. 10 | November 13, 2012 2:15 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Santa Ana was despised by his own people.


  11. huckfunn
    11 | November 13, 2012 2:16 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    People recall the Alamo but not the Goliad (La Bahia) Massacre six weeks later. No wonder the Texans massacred Mexicans who tried to surrender at San Jacinto.

    I was just about to comment on that. I’ll probably do a thread on Goliad in March. I’ve been to the reconstructed LaBahia Presidio which sits out in the middle of nowhere outside the town of Goliad. By contrast, the Alamo is at the very heart of the huge city of San Antonio.


  12. 12 | November 13, 2012 2:17 pm

    @ huckfunn:

    but Santa Ana was not an honorable person.

    That’s an understatement! He was a criminal and backstabber.


  13. 13 | November 13, 2012 2:18 pm

    @ huckfunn:

    Is this thread sending a subliminal message? Hint Republic of Texas! :wink: :lol:


  14. Speranza
    14 | November 13, 2012 2:19 pm

    Not much of the Alamo is actually left (the iconic chapel, the Long Barracks, the Cavalry court yard) but great examples of what the Alamo looked like in 1836 is on the Mission Trail outside of San Antonio. These Mission’s have adobe walls, a chapel, a barracks (for priests just as the Mission San Antonio de Valero (aka The Alamo) had in 1836.


  15. Speranza
    15 | November 13, 2012 2:20 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ huckfunn:
    but Santa Ana was not an honorable person.

    That’s an understatement! He was a criminal and backstabber.

    The worst commander in North American history.


  16. Speranza
    16 | November 13, 2012 2:21 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    I was just about to comment on that. I’ll probably do a thread on Goliad in March. I’ve been to the reconstructed LaBahia Presidio which sits out in the middle of nowhere outside the town of Goliad. By contrast, the Alamo is at the very heart of the huge city of San Antonio.

    Have you ever gone to John Wayne’s “Alamo Village” in Bracketville, Texas?

    By the way James Fannin the commander at Goliad was incompetent.


  17. huckfunn
    17 | November 13, 2012 2:22 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ huckfunn:

    Is this thread sending a subliminal message? Hint Republic of Texas!

    Ha! Could be. Meet me at the Alamo. Be quick. Bring packs…


  18. 18 | November 13, 2012 2:22 pm

    @ Speranza:

    He was the Mussolini of his time. A 1st class clown.


  19. Speranza
    19 | November 13, 2012 2:24 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Santa Ana was despised by his own people.

    He went back and forth between being in exile and being president. He lived way too long (1794 to June 21, 1876) dying four days before Custer’s death at the Little Bighorn on June 25, 1876!


  20. 20 | November 13, 2012 2:24 pm

    @ huckfunn:

    I am watching this show Revolution about electricty going out. Texas is Independent. It controls neighboring states and most of Mexico.


  21. Speranza
    21 | November 13, 2012 2:25 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    He was the Mussolini of his time. A 1st class clown.

    Good analogy with Mussolini. Santa Anna called himself “The Napoleon of the West”.


  22. Speranza
    22 | November 13, 2012 2:26 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    Be quick. Bring packs…

    That was Custer’s last message to Captain Benteen on June 25, 1876
    “Benteen: Come on. Big Village, Be quick. Bring packs”.


  23. 23 | November 13, 2012 2:26 pm

    @ Speranza:

    He was a delsuional fool. He started the whole self medal awards nonsense.


  24. huckfunn
    24 | November 13, 2012 2:30 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Not much of the Alamo is actually left (the iconic chapel, the Long Barracks, the Cavalry court yard) but great examples of what the Alamo looked like in 1836 is on the Mission Trail outside of San Antonio. These Mission’s have adobe walls, a chapel, a barracks (for priests just as the Mission San Antonio de Valero (aka The Alamo) had in 1836.

    Susanah Dickinson was one of 2 survivors of the Alamo. Santa Ana turned her loose and told her to tell of what happened.
    In 1990 I had to go to Gonzalez to take an affidavit of heirship from an old lady. The house where she lived was about 2 blocks off the Gonzalez County Courthouse square. It was an old house and had a historical plaque erected in the front yard. The plaque read something to the affect that “this is the house to which Susanah Dickinson fled to after the massacre at the Alamo”. The old lady that I had to meet lived there with her daughter. I don’t remember if they owned the house or just rented it. At any rate, the old lady and her daughter owned a piece of land in Gonzalez County that was patented to her great-great-father, George George Reynolds. Out of the original league of land, she still owned 50 acres which had been passed down to her through probates or dissent and distribution. A lot of history in Gonzalez County.


  25. 25 | November 13, 2012 2:33 pm

    If I ever move to Texas, it will be to San Antonio. I want to be close to the Alamo.


  26. huckfunn
    26 | November 13, 2012 2:33 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    huckfunn wrote:

    Be quick. Bring packs…

    That was Custer’s last message to Captain Benteen on June 25, 1876
    “Benteen: Come on. Big Village, Be quick. Bring packs”.

    I was wondering if you would catch that :wink: . Seemed fitting. A couple months ago I read Philbrick’s book, The Last Stand.


  27. Mars
    27 | November 13, 2012 2:38 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    huckfunn wrote:
    Be quick. Bring packs…
    That was Custer’s last message to Captain Benteen on June 25, 1876
    “Benteen: Come on. Big Village, Be quick. Bring packs”.

    I was wondering if you would catch that . Seemed fitting. A couple months ago I read Philbrick’s book, The Last Stand.

    I live in the area of the Last Stand. Visit the battlefield every couple years. Or try to. It’s only a short jaunt. Head up, picnic, walk around, and back. Less of a drive there than to yellowstone. Not the most scenic area though.


  28. heysoos
    28 | November 13, 2012 2:40 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    huckfunn wrote:
    Be quick. Bring packs…
    That was Custer’s last message to Captain Benteen on June 25, 1876
    “Benteen: Come on. Big Village, Be quick. Bring packs”.

    heh….that was some serious incompetence right there…and Reno’s treatment was deplorable….there again the media wanted to protect Custer as a hero….his only fair fight was outside Gettysburg when he smoked the rebel cavalry in a mindless head on charge….Custer was a moron


  29. heysoos
    29 | November 13, 2012 2:42 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    If I ever move to Texas, it will be to San Antonio. I want to be close to the Alamo.

    it’s a moving experience…then go to the church where Crockett, Bowie, and Travis’s bones are


  30. huckfunn
    30 | November 13, 2012 2:47 pm

    @ Mars:
    When I was just a kid my dad took us out there. That would have been late 50′s or early 60′s. I’ve been hooked on the story ever since.


  31. Guggi
    31 | November 13, 2012 2:49 pm

    It becomes better and better every minute :-)

    <a

    href=”http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324439804578115410189757452.html”>FBI Agent in Petraeus Case Under Scrutiny

    A federal agent who launched the investigation that ultimately led to the resignation of Central Intelligence Agency chief David Petraeus was barred from taking part in the case over the summer due to superiors’ concerns that he was personally involved in the case, according to officials familiar with the probe.

    (…)

    New details about how the Federal Bureau of Investigation handled the case suggest that even as the bureau delved into Mr. Petraeus’s personal life, the agency had to address conduct by its own agent—who allegedly sent shirtless photos of himself to a woman involved in the case prior to the investigation.


  32. lobo91
    32 | November 13, 2012 2:50 pm

    @ Guggi:

    Which explains why the FBI was investigating “anonymous email threats” in the first place.

    The FBI wasn’t. Some idiot FBI agent was, on his own.


  33. Speranza
    33 | November 13, 2012 2:52 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    Susanah Dickinson was one of 2 survivors of the Alamo. Santa Ana turned her loose and told her to tell of what happened.

    I read that her daughter Angelina (referred to as “the daughter of the Alamo) became a prostitute due to poverty. I hope that is incorrect.


  34. Mars
    34 | November 13, 2012 2:53 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    @ Mars:
    When I was just a kid my dad took us out there. That would have been late 50′s or early 60′s. I’ve been hooked on the story ever since.

    When you know the history it’s amazing to be there and see what everything is like. You can almost see where the different things occurred and how they happened.


  35. Guggi
    35 | November 13, 2012 2:54 pm

    Sorry, link


  36. heysoos
    36 | November 13, 2012 2:54 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    @ Mars:
    When I was just a kid my dad took us out there. That would have been late 50′s or early 60′s. I’ve been hooked on the story ever since.

    I have been to many sites of indian battles…it’s the only place where you can actually follow along and see exactly what happened…every other place I’ve seen, the Red Cloud fights up the Bozeman trail, Adobe Walla in Texas etc, are all just empty space


  37. Speranza
    37 | November 13, 2012 2:54 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    If I ever move to Texas, it will be to San Antonio. I want to be close to the Alamo.

    It is a wonderful city and I loved the Alamo even though very little of it is left. In San Antonio is Cathedral of San Fernando in which Santa Anna ordered a red flag of “no quarter” to be flown from the steeple to signify to the defenders of the Alamo that no prisoners would be taken.


  38. 38 | November 13, 2012 2:54 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    @ Mars:
    When I was just a kid my dad took us out there. That would have been late 50′s or early 60′s. I’ve been hooked on the story ever since.

    I am sure The Departmnet of travel will take care of that in the future!

    :lol:


  39. RIX
    39 | November 13, 2012 2:54 pm

    There have been some really good movies about
    the Alamo, but my favorite has John Wayne playing
    Davie Crocket. “Get down from that horse monsewer &
    have some of these frijole beans.”


  40. Speranza
    40 | November 13, 2012 2:56 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    I was wondering if you would catch that :wink: . Seemed fitting. A couple months ago I read Philbrick’s book, The Last Stand.

    I am a self taught expert on the Battle of the Little Bighorn and most Civil War battles as well. Actually, Custer’s adjutant (a Canadian) Lt. William W. Cooke wrote the message to Benteen.


  41. Speranza
    41 | November 13, 2012 2:58 pm

    RIX wrote:

    There have been some really good movies about
    the Alamo, but my favorite has John Wayne playing
    Davie Crocket. “Get down from that horse monsewer &
    have some of these frijole beans.”

    That movie (which was overly long) had not five minutes of historical accuracy in it but it had a great (but historically inaccurate) final battle scene. The actual battle happened in the pre-dawn darkness not in the light of day.


  42. heysoos
    42 | November 13, 2012 2:58 pm

    @ RIX:
    the most accurate by far was the newest movie with Billy Bob as Crockett…which gave you some feel for the desparate, bloody fighting in the streets with Santa Anna’s advanced troops…civilians and animals all over…hand to hand fighting…that was utterly brutal and went on for a couple of days nonstop


  43. Guggi
    43 | November 13, 2012 2:59 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Guggi:
    Which explains why the FBI was investigating “anonymous email threats” in the first place.
    The FBI wasn’t. Some idiot FBI agent was, on his own.

    agreed BUT apparently they were investigating much longer than they admitted when he “was barred over the summer from the investigation”.

    lies, lies, lies….


  44. lobo91
    44 | November 13, 2012 2:59 pm

    @ Speranza:

    That movie (which was overly long) had not five minutes of historical accuracy in it but it had a great (but historically inaccurate) final battle scene. The actual battle happened in the pre-dawn darkness not in the light of day.

    Next you’re going to tell us that they didn’t have pine forests in Vietnam…
    //


  45. heysoos
    45 | November 13, 2012 2:59 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    There have been some really good movies about
    the Alamo, but my favorite has John Wayne playing
    Davie Crocket. “Get down from that horse monsewer &
    have some of these frijole beans.”

    That movie (which was overly long) had not five minutes of historical accuracy in it but it had a great (but historically inaccurate) final battle scene. The actual battle happened in the pre-dawn darkness not in the light of day.

    it was over before sunup….30-45 minutes of accute slaughter


  46. Speranza
    46 | November 13, 2012 2:59 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    I have been to many sites of indian battles…it’s the only place where you can actually follow along and see exactly what happened…every other place I’ve seen, the Red Cloud fights up the Bozeman trail, Adobe Walla in Texas etc, are all just empty space

    Actually the site of the Fetterman Fight Dec. 21, 1866 is very nice to visit. it is part of the Ft. Phil Kearney historic national site.


  47. Mars
    47 | November 13, 2012 3:00 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    huckfunn wrote:
    @ Mars:
    When I was just a kid my dad took us out there. That would have been late 50′s or early 60′s. I’ve been hooked on the story ever since.

    I have been to many sites of indian battles…it’s the only place where you can actually follow along and see exactly what happened…every other place I’ve seen, the Red Cloud fights up the Bozeman trail, Adobe Walla in Texas etc, are all just empty space

    The only other place that I’ve been with that kind of feeling was right by where I spent part of my childhood. The Dull Knife Battlefield.

    Hell, you can still find artifacts of the battle up there all the time. It’s never really been gone over by historians.


  48. lobo91
    48 | November 13, 2012 3:00 pm

    @ Guggi:

    I don’t believe that Holder and the FBI director knew about all this and didn’t tell Obama until last week, either.


  49. Speranza
    49 | November 13, 2012 3:00 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    it was over before sunup….30-45 minutes of accute slaughter

    Actually about an hour. Most of the fighting took place inside the Long Barracks.


  50. Speranza
    50 | November 13, 2012 3:01 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Guggi:
    I don’t believe that Holder and the FBI director knew about all this and didn’t tell Obama until last week, either.

    We will be forced to endure eight years of Eric Holder.


  51. Speranza
    51 | November 13, 2012 3:02 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Next you’re going to tell us that they didn’t have pine forests in Vietnam…
    //

    They didn’t?


  52. heysoos
    52 | November 13, 2012 3:02 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    I have been to many sites of indian battles…it’s the only place where you can actually follow along and see exactly what happened…every other place I’ve seen, the Red Cloud fights up the Bozeman trail, Adobe Walla in Texas etc, are all just empty space
    Actually the site of the Fetterman Fight Dec. 21, 1866 is very nice to visit. it is part of the Ft. Phil Kearney historic national site.

    been there, and the Haywagon fight…made that whole loop many tears ago…maybe there was some facility I don’t recall…just a lot of rolling prairie….I love that stuff


  53. huckfunn
    53 | November 13, 2012 3:03 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    huckfunn wrote:

    Susanah Dickinson was one of 2 survivors of the Alamo. Santa Ana turned her loose and told her to tell of what happened.

    I read that her daughter Angelina (referred to as “the daughter of the Alamo) became a prostitute due to poverty. I hope that is incorrect.

    Here is what the Handbook of Texas says about Angelina Dickinson. According to that article “she was a known courtesan” in Galveston.


  54. Speranza
    54 | November 13, 2012 3:03 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ RIX:
    the most accurate by far was the newest movie with Billy Bob as Crockett…which gave you some feel for the desparate, bloody fighting in the streets with Santa Anna’s advanced troops…civilians and animals all over…hand to hand fighting…that was utterly brutal and went on for a couple of days nonstop

    That actually was a well made movie. It showed Col. William Travis accurately as not the aristocrat that Laurence Harvey played him as.


  55. RIX
    55 | November 13, 2012 3:04 pm

    @ Speranza:

    That movie (which was overly long) had not five minutes of historical accuracy in it but it had a great (but historically inaccurate) final battle scene. The actual battle happened in the pre-dawn darkness not in the light of day.

    Oh yeah, nothing accurate going on.
    But Duke Wayne playing Davie Crocket was only
    trumped by him playing Gengis Khan


  56. Speranza
    56 | November 13, 2012 3:04 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    Here is what the Handbook of Texas says about Angelina Dickinson. According to that article “she was a known courtesan” in Galveston.

    So I got it right.


  57. heysoos
    57 | November 13, 2012 3:05 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    it was over before sunup….30-45 minutes of accute slaughter
    Actually about an hour. Most of the fighting took place inside the Long Barracks.

    yes, when the walls were breached, the withdrawal to the barracks was useless….what a story eh?…still gives me chills, man that’s just old fashioned raw courage


  58. RIX
    58 | November 13, 2012 3:06 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ RIX:

    the most accurate by far was the newest movie with Billy Bob as Crockett…which gave you some feel for the desparate, bloody fighting in the streets with Santa Anna’s advanced troops…civilians and animals all over…hand to hand fighting…that was utterly brutal and went on for a couple of days nonstop

    I agree with that, it was pretty accurate.


  59. Speranza
    59 | November 13, 2012 3:06 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Oh yeah, nothing accurate going on.
    But Duke Wayne playing Davie Crocket was only
    trumped by him playing Gengis Khan

    Richard Boone aka “Paladin” from “Have Gun -- Will Travel” played Sam Houston. Wayne originally wanted to play Houston but the producers needed him (for box office appeal) in the film more so he played Crockett.


  60. lobo91
    60 | November 13, 2012 3:06 pm

    @ Speranza:


  61. Guggi
    61 | November 13, 2012 3:06 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    We will be forced to endure eight years of Eric Holder.

    he should be in jail for eight years -- minimum.


  62. Speranza
    62 | November 13, 2012 3:07 pm

    @ lobo91:
    I saw that movie (part of a double feature with the Sam Peckinpaugh directed “The Wild Bunch”) when it came out in 1969.


  63. heysoos
    63 | November 13, 2012 3:09 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    @ RIX:
    the most accurate by far was the newest movie with Billy Bob as Crockett…which gave you some feel for the desparate, bloody fighting in the streets with Santa Anna’s advanced troops…civilians and animals all over…hand to hand fighting…that was utterly brutal and went on for a couple of days nonstop

    That actually was a well made movie. It showed Col. William Travis accurately as not the aristocrat that Laurence Harvey played him as.

    he was a failed lawyer, a failed landowner and a failed husband and father…but he was certainly not afraid to die….toting his little coach gun running to and fro…his death was witness by Mrs Dickinson…one round to the head almost as soon as hostilities broke out


  64. RIX
    64 | November 13, 2012 3:09 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Richard Boone aka “Paladin” from “Have Gun — Will Travel” played Sam Houston. Wayne originally wanted to play Houston but the producers needed him (for box office appeal) in the film more so he played Crockett.

    John Wayne never really acted, he just played John Wayne &
    that was great.


  65. huckfunn
    65 | November 13, 2012 3:10 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ RIX:
    the most accurate by far was the newest movie with Billy Bob as Crockett…which gave you some feel for the desparate, bloody fighting in the streets with Santa Anna’s advanced troops…civilians and animals all over…hand to hand fighting…that was utterly brutal and went on for a couple of days nonstop

    The Alamo that was built for that movie was located on Reimers’ Ranch about 12 miles from where I live. It was totally destroyed by the Spicewood Fire last year.


  66. Speranza
    66 | November 13, 2012 3:10 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    yes, when the walls were breached, the withdrawal to the barracks was useless….what a story eh?…still gives me chills, man that’s just old fashioned raw courage

    The fight for the Long Barracks was particularly brutal. In the Alamo today The Long Barracks Museum is fascinating. Travis (one of the first Alamo defenders to die) was killed along the North wall (where the steps of the post office building on Houston street is today.


  67. lobo91
    67 | November 13, 2012 3:11 pm

    @ RIX:

    John Wayne never really acted, he just played John Wayne &
    that was great.

    Yup. Horses…helicopters…didn’t really matter.


  68. Mars
    68 | November 13, 2012 3:11 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    Oh yeah, nothing accurate going on.
    But Duke Wayne playing Davie Crocket was only
    trumped by him playing Gengis Khan
    Richard Boone aka “Paladin” from “Have Gun — Will Travel” played Sam Houston. Wayne originally wanted to play Houston but the producers needed him (for box office appeal) in the film more so he played Crockett.

    Richard Boone ruled everything he was ever in.

    If they ever go ahead with their stupid “modern day” version of Have Gun.. with Emininem in the lead, I will personally put on my black hat and sidearms and give them my calling card. No one stupid enough to think that this is a good idea deserves to live.


  69. heysoos
    69 | November 13, 2012 3:11 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    Oh yeah, nothing accurate going on.
    But Duke Wayne playing Davie Crocket was only
    trumped by him playing Gengis Khan
    Richard Boone aka “Paladin” from “Have Gun — Will Travel” played Sam Houston. Wayne originally wanted to play Houston but the producers needed him (for box office appeal) in the film more so he played Crockett.

    a legendary case of miscasting….he was nothing at all similar to Crockett…maybe the cap


  70. lobo91
    70 | November 13, 2012 3:12 pm

    @ RIX:

    And unlike most of Hollywood today, he wasn’t embarrased to be an American.


  71. Speranza
    71 | November 13, 2012 3:12 pm

    @ lobo91:
    When he had a good script and a good director -- the Duke could act.
    “Yup” was Gary Cooper’s line.


  72. huckfunn
    72 | November 13, 2012 3:12 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Oh yeah, nothing accurate going on.
    But Duke Wayne playing Davie Crocket was only
    trumped by him playing Gengis Khan

    “Pilgrim, if yer not across the Yalu River by noon tomorrow, yer gonna regret it”. :lol:


  73. Mars
    73 | November 13, 2012 3:13 pm

    I loved The Alamo, but Fess Parker will always be Davy Crockett to me.


  74. RIX
    74 | November 13, 2012 3:14 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ RIX:

    John Wayne never really acted, he just played John Wayne &
    that was great.

    Yup. Horses…helicopters…didn’t really matter.

    I swear in True Grit & the Cowboys he seemed bigger than his horse.
    My father once said , “If John Wayne didn’t exist, Hollywood would
    have had to invent him.”
    Pure Americana.


  75. Speranza
    75 | November 13, 2012 3:14 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    a legendary case of miscasting….he was nothing at all similar to Crockett…maybe the cap

    Neither was Laurence Harvey anything like William B. Travis. John Ford showed up to advise Wayne on directing and at one point seemed to be taking over to Wayne’s dismay. that film desperately needed editing and to be cut by 45 minutes.”The great cattle raid” in the film was pure fiction. the Alamo defenders had plenty of food.


  76. heysoos
    76 | November 13, 2012 3:14 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    @ RIX:
    the most accurate by far was the newest movie with Billy Bob as Crockett…which gave you some feel for the desparate, bloody fighting in the streets with Santa Anna’s advanced troops…civilians and animals all over…hand to hand fighting…that was utterly brutal and went on for a couple of days nonstop

    The Alamo that was built for that movie was located on Reimers’ Ranch about 12 miles from where I live. It was totally destroyed by the Spicewood Fire last year.

    had a chance to drive over there with a buddy, we got side tracked, but I’ve seen it on the net….the accuracy was as perfect as facts allowed for…pretty cool


  77. huckfunn
    77 | November 13, 2012 3:14 pm

    Mars wrote:

    I loved The Alamo, but Fess Parker will always be Davy Crockett to me.

    Oh, yeah!


  78. RIX
    78 | November 13, 2012 3:15 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ RIX:

    And unlike most of Hollywood today, he wasn’t embarrased to be an American.

    Not at all & that just added to his mystique.
    He was a great guy.


  79. Mars
    79 | November 13, 2012 3:16 pm

    RIX wrote:

    They actually had that problem a couple of times. It was difficult to get a horse for him that didn’t look like a Shetland pony.


  80. Lily
    80 | November 13, 2012 3:17 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ huckfunn:

    Is this thread sending a subliminal message? Hint Republic of Texas!

    It would be the Republic of Texas and Louisiana. The two states that stand together. Not to mention we have a lot of control of the refineries.


  81. RIX
    81 | November 13, 2012 3:17 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    Oh yeah, nothing accurate going on.
    But Duke Wayne playing Davie Crocket was only
    trumped by him playing Gengis Khan

    “Pilgrim, if yer not across the Yalu River by noon tomorrow, yer gonna regret it”.

    The guy was simply the best.


  82. Mars
    82 | November 13, 2012 3:19 pm

    http://www.ezrazion.com/reagan/

    Posted this on the last thread but worth repeating. I got the release notification on this the day after the election. (Maybe one reason I stayed upbeat.) Even if you aren’t into cigars please watch the video and hear how the guys describe another great man.


  83. lobo91
    83 | November 13, 2012 3:19 pm

    RIX wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ RIX:

    And unlike most of Hollywood today, he wasn’t embarrased to be an American.

    Not at all & that just added to his mystique.
    He was a great guy.

    If he were alive today, he’d be doing the same kind of things Gary Sinise does.

    Well, probably minus the band…


  84. Speranza
    84 | November 13, 2012 3:19 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    he was a failed lawyer, a failed landowner and a failed husband and father…but he was certainly not afraid to die….toting his little coach gun running to and fro…his death was witness by Mrs Dickinson…one round to the head almost as soon as hostilities broke out

    No. Mrs. Dickinson was huddled inside the chapel with the civilians. His death was witnessed by his slave “Joe” who identified his body to Santa Anna after the battle. A single shot to the head from a Mexican “Brown Bess” musket killed him. Travis was firing a shot gun into the Mexicans crowding in front of the North Wall.
    Col. Travis was probably the first Alamo defender to be killed. Command then passed then to Major Robert Evans who was one of the last defenders to be killed as he was shot running with a torch in his hand as he tried to blow up the Alamo arsenal.


  85. heysoos
    86 | November 13, 2012 3:21 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    @ huckfunn:
    Is this thread sending a subliminal message? Hint Republic of Texas!
    It would be the Republic of Texas and Louisiana. The two states that stand together. Not to mention we have a lot of control of the refineries.

    in that case Texas will finally conquer New Mexico…they tried twice and got their butts kicked both time…pisses them off to this very day!


  86. Mars
    87 | November 13, 2012 3:22 pm

    Please ignore the fact in that article I just posted that apparently the author doesn’t realize most of the people accused or blackballed due to communists ties were later proven to be communists.


  87. huckfunn
    88 | November 13, 2012 3:22 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    had a chance to drive over there with a buddy, we got side tracked, but I’ve seen it on the net….the accuracy was as perfect as facts allowed for…pretty cool

    It’s a real shame that it burnt down.


  88. Mars
    89 | November 13, 2012 3:23 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ RIX:
    And unlike most of Hollywood today, he wasn’t embarrased to be an American.
    Not at all & that just added to his mystique.
    He was a great guy.

    If he were alive today, he’d be doing the same kind of things Gary Sinise does.
    Well, probably minus the band…

    I really like Sinise. He seems like a genuinely good guy.


  89. heysoos
    90 | November 13, 2012 3:23 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    he was a failed lawyer, a failed landowner and a failed husband and father…but he was certainly not afraid to die….toting his little coach gun running to and fro…his death was witness by Mrs Dickinson…one round to the head almost as soon as hostilities broke out
    No. Mrs. Dickinson was huddled inside the chapel with the civilians. His death was witnessed by his slave “Joe” who identified his body to Santa Anna after the battle. A single shot to the head from a Mexican “Brown Bess” musket killed him. Travis was firing a shot gun into the Mexicans crowding in front of the North Wall.

    yes, thanks for the correction…I knew it was a small scrap of truth that went into the books….seems I recall Joe gave his account once, soon after, then disappeared from history


  90. RIX
    91 | November 13, 2012 3:24 pm

    @ lobo91:

    If he were alive today, he’d be doing the same kind of things Gary Sinise does.

    Well, probably minus the band.

    He would no doubt, but I would pay to hear John Wayne sing.


  91. RIX
    92 | November 13, 2012 3:25 pm

    @ Mars:
    If you get a chance to see the Lt. Dan Band, they are
    really good.


  92. lobo91
    93 | November 13, 2012 3:26 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ Mars:
    If you get a chance to see the Lt. Dan Band, they are
    really good.

    They did a couple of shows in Kuwait while I was there, but I wasn’t able to make it.

    Probably because I had to get up at 3:30 every morning for work.


  93. Mars
    94 | November 13, 2012 3:27 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    If he were alive today, he’d be doing the same kind of things Gary Sinise does.
    Well, probably minus the band.
    He would no doubt, but I would pay to hear John Wayne sing.

    Youtube singing sandy saunders.


  94. Mars
    95 | November 13, 2012 3:29 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0D0c_CSOk

    BTW read the comments. Liberals are still trying to destroy John Wayne with their insane racism charges.


  95. heysoos
    96 | November 13, 2012 3:30 pm

    Wayne was a very cautious, almost timid actor…never quite seemed sure of himself…he relied heavily on his directors, and his onscreen personna was little like himself…he was not a rough, gruff, two fisted guy at all


  96. Mars
    97 | November 13, 2012 3:30 pm

    http://www.amazon.com/America-Why-I-Love-Her/dp/B00005TQM2

    My dad had this on LP. Everyone should hear it.


  97. Lily
    98 | November 13, 2012 3:31 pm

    Mars wrote:

    Speranza wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    Oh yeah, nothing accurate going on.
    But Duke Wayne playing Davie Crocket was only
    trumped by him playing Gengis Khan
    Richard Boone aka “Paladin” from “Have Gun — Will Travel” played Sam Houston. Wayne originally wanted to play Houston but the producers needed him (for box office appeal) in the film more so he played Crockett.

    Richard Boone ruled everything he was ever in.

    If they ever go ahead with their stupid “modern day” version of Have Gun.. with Emininem in the lead, I will personally put on my black hat and sidearms and give them my calling card. No one stupid enough to think that this is a good idea deserves to live.

    Are they really considering this?? ReallY?? Eminem? Honestly?


  98. RIX
    99 | November 13, 2012 3:31 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    @ Mars:
    If you get a chance to see the Lt. Dan Band, they are
    really good.

    They did a couple of shows in Kuwait while I was there, but I wasn’t able to make it.

    Probably because I had to get up at 3:30 every morning for work.

    A 3:30 wake up can screw up the day.
    I saw them last Summer at Cantigny in Wheaton Il.
    It was bands all day with Gary Sinese at the end.
    His band is all professional entertainers who donate
    their time. All the money goes to Wounded Warriors
    & other causes for the troops.


  99. Mars
    100 | November 13, 2012 3:33 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Mars wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    RIX wrote:
    Oh yeah, nothing accurate going on.
    But Duke Wayne playing Davie Crocket was only
    trumped by him playing Gengis Khan
    Richard Boone aka “Paladin” from “Have Gun — Will Travel” played Sam Houston. Wayne originally wanted to play Houston but the producers needed him (for box office appeal) in the film more so he played Crockett.
    Richard Boone ruled everything he was ever in.
    If they ever go ahead with their stupid “modern day” version of Have Gun.. with Emininem in the lead, I will personally put on my black hat and sidearms and give them my calling card. No one stupid enough to think that this is a good idea deserves to live.

    Are they really considering this?? ReallY?? Eminem? Honestly?

    I think it’s a dead project, but it came up a few years back. About made me hurl.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see a movie or series but I would think they would have learned their lesson with Wanted Dead or Alive. (Though I still love that movie. Rutger Hauer is just awesome. Gene Simmons was unrepentantly evil.)

    Westerns work best as westerns.


  100. heysoos
    101 | November 13, 2012 3:35 pm

    without even thinking, my two favorite Wayne films are the Quiet Man, Rooster Cogburn and the Shootist….three totally different characters and brilliant in each film


  101. RIX
    102 | November 13, 2012 3:35 pm

    @ Mars:
    Now, that’s funny.


  102. Lily
    103 | November 13, 2012 3:35 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    @ huckfunn:
    Is this thread sending a subliminal message? Hint Republic of Texas!
    It would be the Republic of Texas and Louisiana. The two states that stand together. Not to mention we have a lot of control of the refineries.

    in that case Texas will finally conquer New Mexico…they tried twice and got their butts kicked both time…pisses them off to this very day!

    :lol: All I can say ever since the re-election of obama it’s been very weird.


  103. heysoos
    104 | November 13, 2012 3:37 pm

    @ heysoos:
    I sound like a liberal…
    my favorite two are these three


  104. Lily
    105 | November 13, 2012 3:37 pm

    Mars wrote:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0D0c_CSOk

    BTW read the comments. Liberals are still trying to destroy John Wayne with their insane racism charges.

    Wait a minute they are dissing John Wayne now? Someone is putting something in the water it seems in some places. Good grief.


  105. Mars
    106 | November 13, 2012 3:39 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Mars wrote:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0D0c_CSOk
    BTW read the comments. Liberals are still trying to destroy John Wayne with their insane racism charges.

    Wait a minute they are dissing John Wayne now? Someone is putting something in the water it seems in some places. Good grief.

    The John Wayne is racist thing started in at least the 70′s, it’s not a new thing.

    Liberals have to destroy anything that represents the good in the country. That way people will more openly accept their degenerate behaviors.


  106. heysoos
    107 | November 13, 2012 3:40 pm

    @ Mars:
    @ Mars:
    that’s because Wayne was a lifelong commie hater


  107. Lily
    108 | November 13, 2012 3:41 pm

    @ Mars:

    I agree Westerns work best at Westerns…


  108. Lily
    109 | November 13, 2012 3:43 pm

    Mars wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Mars wrote:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0D0c_CSOk
    BTW read the comments. Liberals are still trying to destroy John Wayne with their insane racism charges.

    Wait a minute they are dissing John Wayne now? Someone is putting something in the water it seems in some places. Good grief.

    The John Wayne is racist thing started in at least the 70′s, it’s not a new thing.

    Liberals have to destroy anything that represents the good in the country. That way people will more openly accept their degenerate behaviors.

    First I heard of it…but then again I didn’t pay much attention to that sort of stuff in the 70′s…but John Wayne racist? Geez.


  109. huckfunn
    110 | November 13, 2012 3:44 pm

    My favorite John Wayne films were The Searchers and then the Cavalry movies, Fort Apache, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and Rio Grande. All directed by John Ford.


  110. Speranza
    111 | November 13, 2012 3:45 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    yes, thanks for the correction…I knew it was a small scrap of truth that went into the books….seems I recall Joe gave his account once, soon after, then disappeared from history

    http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fjo01

    JOE (ca. 1813–?). Joe, slave of William B. Travis and one of the few Texan survivors of the battle of the Alamo, was born about 1813. He was listed as a resident of Harrisburg in May 1833. Joe claimed that when Gen. Antonio López de Santa Anna’s troops stormed the Alamo on March 6, 1836, he armed himself and followed Travis from his quarters into the battle, fired his gun, then retreated into a building from which he fired several more times. After the battle, Mexican troops searched the buildings within the Alamo and called for any blacks to reveal themselves. Joe did so and was struck by a pistol shot and bayonet thrust before a Mexican captain intervened. Sam, James Bowie’s slave, was also reported to have survived the battle, but no further record of him is known to exist. Joe was taken into Bexar, where he was detained. He observed a grand review of the Mexican army before being interrogated by Santa Anna about Texas and its army. Accounts of his departure from the Alamo differ, but he later joined Susanna W. Dickinson and her escort, Ben, Santa Anna’s black cook, on their way to Gen. Sam Houston’s camp at Gonzales. On March 20 Joe was brought before the Texas Cabinet at Groce’s Retreat and questioned about events at the Alamo. William F. Gray reported that Joe impressed those present with the modesty, candor, and clarity of his account. After his report to the Texas Cabinet Joe was returned to Travis’s estate near Columbia, where he remained until April 21, the first anniversary of the battle of San Jacinto. On that day, accompanied by an unidentified Mexican man and taking two fully equipped horses with him, he escaped. A notice offering fifty dollars for his return was published by the executor of Travis’s estate in the Telegraph and Texas Register on May 26, 1837. Presumably Joe’s escape was successful, for the notice ran three months before it was discontinued on August 26, 1837. Joe was last reported in Austin in 1875.


  111. John Difool
    112 | November 13, 2012 3:48 pm

    If John Wayne were alive today he’d probably be kicking some more disrespectful ass too.

    Theres a story I heard that one night he had the misfortune of staying in a hotel in a room right next to Frank Sinatra & his entourage.

    Wayne was an early riser & went to bed early but Sinatra & company were hard party people who drank heavily into the wee hours of the morning. The Duke phoned next door a few times & politely asked them to please keep it down because he had an important business engagement early the next morning.

    They would have none of it & kept the reverie up despite The Duke’s protests.

    That is until the door came flying off of it’s hinges, Wayne roughed of two of Sinatra’s body guards & then went after Blue Eye’s himself & proceeded to choke the ever loving shit out of him until he came to his senses & calmed down.

    Needless to say, party over and not a peep was heard the rest of the night after that.


  112. heysoos
    113 | November 13, 2012 3:49 pm

    @ Speranza:
    @ Speranza:
    remarkable story…I wonder if a written account of his story is still to be found…I would like to hear his own words


  113. Purre
    114 | November 13, 2012 3:50 pm

    No idea how that word “rake” could be interpreted as rape. I looked through the dictionaries I have and then free online dictionary, from where this is copied:

    “To search or examine thoroughly; ransack.”

    That was the 4th meaning on the verb “rake.” Lot of other meanings of course, but none of them “rape” and few of them fitting except this one.


  114. Guggi
    115 | November 13, 2012 3:50 pm

    You can’t make this sh*t up -- not enough popcorn

    Petraeus, Allen sided with Jill Kelley’s sister in child custody battle

    When Jill Kelley’s twin sister Natalie Khawam recently needed character references to appeal the loss of custody of her four-year-old son, she turned to two prominent figures now under investigation: then-CIA director David Petraeus and the lead U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Gen. John Allen. CBS News has obtained the letters filed in the court case bearing the signatures of the two men. They were written in late September, after Kelley had already complained to the FBI that somebody was sending her threatening emails, and about the time the FBI was conducting its first interview with Petraeus’ alleged mistress: Paula Broadwell.

    (…)

    Among the reasons given by the District of Columbia Family Court judge for denying Khawam custody of her son: “profound concerns about Ms. Khawam’s poor logical thinking and her extreme distortions” and “severe psychological deficits.” Court documents state that Khawam “was terminated from at least four consecutive positions of employment within the first five years following her graduation from law school, is a psychologically unstable person whose unsteady moral and ethical compass and apparent lack of awareness of her own shortcomings make it impossible for her successfully to navigate her surroundings in a consistent and sustainable way.”


  115. John Difool
    116 | November 13, 2012 3:51 pm

    Lily wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Rodan wrote:
    @ huckfunn:
    Is this thread sending a subliminal message? Hint Republic of Texas!
    It would be the Republic of Texas and Louisiana. The two states that stand together. Not to mention we have a lot of control of the refineries.
    in that case Texas will finally conquer New Mexico…they tried twice and got their butts kicked both time…pisses them off to this very day!

    All I can say ever since the re-election of obama it’s been very weird.

    There are several petitions over at whitehouse.gov demanding the federal government allow several states to secede from the union.

    Texas of course has already garnered the necessary 25k signatures for a serious review of the petition but thousands upon thousands of other folks have signed the other petitions.


  116. lobo91
    117 | November 13, 2012 3:52 pm

    @ Lily:

    First I heard of it…but then again I didn’t pay much attention to that sort of stuff in the 70′s…but John Wayne racist? Geez.

    He was a well-known Republican, so thus, he must have been a racist. That’s what passes for deep thinking by most on the left.

    I’ve had people insinuate that I’m a racist, as well, for no other reason than the fact that I’m an NRA member.


  117. Lily
    118 | November 13, 2012 3:53 pm

    Unbelievable.

    Obama Joins Baby Jesus In Nativity Scene…

    Figurines of President Barack Obama are appearing in Nativity scenes in shops in Naples, Italy for the Christmas season.

    Craftsman Marco Ferrigno told Reuters on Nov. 7 that Obama’s reelection sparked the production.

    “Every time a major event occurs we create a new figurine, and today after Obama’s victory, we have made a new figurine of Obama and will put him in our ideal Nativity scene,” Ferrigno said.

    Italian fans of Obama said his likeness in the nativity scenes is a portrayal of how important his role is in today’s world, according to Reuters.

    http://weaselzippers.us/2012/11/13/obama-joins-baby-jesus-in-nativity-scene/


  118. John Difool
    119 | November 13, 2012 3:54 pm

    @ Guggi:

    He got involved in that custody dispute on the side of a crazy woman vs. her estranged husband right in the middle of the Benghazi incident.

    At least we know where his priorities were.

    Was he screwing Jill Kelley too?

    The more & more I hear about this I’m leaning towards yes.


  119. lobo91
    120 | November 13, 2012 3:54 pm

    @ Guggi:

    Sounds like precisely the sort of person the CIA director should be associating with…
    //


  120. Lily
    121 | November 13, 2012 3:56 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:

    First I heard of it…but then again I didn’t pay much attention to that sort of stuff in the 70′s…but John Wayne racist? Geez.

    He was a well-known Republican, so thus, he must have been a racist. That’s what passes for deep thinking by most on the left.

    I’ve had people insinuate that I’m a racist, as well, for no other reason than the fact that I’m an NRA member.

    Oh I have been called a racist, a h8ter, a bigot and conservative (like I’m something evil)….all because I don’t think the government should force Churches to preform same-sex marriages since it is against their tenets and I also added I had no problem with them having Civil marriages. A lot of man/woman marriages now days are civil marriages.


  121. John Difool
    122 | November 13, 2012 3:57 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Guggi:
    Sounds like precisely the sort of person the CIA director should be associating with…
    //

    I have lost all respect for Petraeus. It’s a damn good thing this is all coming out now in spades or he could have very likely become our very own John Edwards in 2016.


  122. Mars
    123 | November 13, 2012 3:58 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    First I heard of it…but then again I didn’t pay much attention to that sort of stuff in the 70′s…but John Wayne racist? Geez.
    He was a well-known Republican, so thus, he must have been a racist. That’s what passes for deep thinking by most on the left.
    I’ve had people insinuate that I’m a racist, as well, for no other reason than the fact that I’m an NRA member.

    Let’s ignore the fact that part of the reason the NRA was formed was to provide African-Americans with firearms for protection from the KKK.


  123. heysoos
    124 | November 13, 2012 3:59 pm

    @ lobo91:
    I don’t agree with most comparisons to the Libya event with Watergate, but the way this story is unfolding, like dominos falling reminds me of Watergate….in the end all sorts of tangent corruption was uncovered as one thing led to another


  124. 125 | November 13, 2012 3:59 pm

    Sarah Jessica Parker’s advice to Republicans: “Stop being so racist!”

    To which I replied: “Shouldn’t you be on a farm in Kentucky somewhere training for the Triple Crown?”


  125. 126 | November 13, 2012 4:00 pm

    @ Lily:

    Who does he play? King Herod?


  126. lobo91
    127 | November 13, 2012 4:00 pm

    @ Mars:

    Let’s ignore the fact that part of the reason the NRA was formed was to provide African-Americans with firearms for protection from the KKK.

    I guarantee you that not one in a thousand black Americans knows that.


  127. Lily
    128 | November 13, 2012 4:00 pm

    @ John Difool:

    Louisiana is in there. I haven’t looked at the numbers to see if they got the magical number needed. Business’s and people are flying the American Flag in the Distress signal …upside down. All the lay-offs the very next day by tons of businesses and cutting peoples hours back. It has gone bonkers since obama has been re-elected. Market went into free-fall.


  128. Mars
    129 | November 13, 2012 4:01 pm

    Lily wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    First I heard of it…but then again I didn’t pay much attention to that sort of stuff in the 70′s…but John Wayne racist? Geez.
    He was a well-known Republican, so thus, he must have been a racist. That’s what passes for deep thinking by most on the left.
    I’ve had people insinuate that I’m a racist, as well, for no other reason than the fact that I’m an NRA member.

    Oh I have been called a racist, a h8ter, a bigot and conservative (like I’m something evil)….all because I don’t think the government should force Churches to preform same-sex marriages since it is against their tenets and I also added I had no problem with them having Civil marriages. A lot of man/woman marriages now days are civil marriages.

    I know several gay people that agree with you. They feel that the government cannot force churches to do it. Churches that do it themselves, it’s fine, but otherwise you should have the civil outlets.


  129. Lily
    130 | November 13, 2012 4:03 pm

    John Difool wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Guggi:
    Sounds like precisely the sort of person the CIA director should be associating with…
    //

    I have lost all respect for Petraeus. It’s a damn good thing this is all coming out now in spades or he could have very likely become our very own John Edwards in 2016.

    They waited til after the election for this to break too.


  130. John Difool
    131 | November 13, 2012 4:03 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    Sarah Jessica Parker’s advice to Republicans: “Stop being so racist!”
    To which I replied: “Shouldn’t you be on a farm in Kentucky somewhere training for the Triple Crown?”

    Sarah Jessica Parker should star in another feel-good horse movie…..Shebiscuit.


  131. Speranza
    132 | November 13, 2012 4:04 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    @ Speranza:
    remarkable story…I wonder if a written account of his story is still to be found…I would like to hear his own words

    He most probably was illiterate and therefore any story from him would have had to been oral and taken down by a transcriber.


  132. Speranza
    133 | November 13, 2012 4:05 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    Sarah Jessica Parker’s advice to Republicans: “Stop being so racist!”
    To which I replied: “Shouldn’t you be on a farm in Kentucky somewhere training for the Triple Crown?”

    She is such a mediocre talent that I just wish she would shut the hell up.


  133. 134 | November 13, 2012 4:05 pm

    @ Lily:

    And now the news is coming out that there will be a serious doctor shortage arising from Obamacare. People are surprised. Let me rephrase that -- LIBERALS are surprised -- conservatives already knew it.


  134. Lily
    135 | November 13, 2012 4:06 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Lily:

    Who does he play? King Herod?

    Heaven only knows all I know it’s sacrilegious! Obama was there when Jesus was born?????? And no less with a crown on his head too????? Good grief!!!!!!!!


  135. Speranza
    136 | November 13, 2012 4:06 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Mars:
    Let’s ignore the fact that part of the reason the NRA was formed was to provide African-Americans with firearms for protection from the KKK.

    I guarantee you that not one in a thousand black Americans knows that.

    Most would not even care. Most do not even know that the party of slavery and segregation after the Civil War was the Democratic Party.


  136. heysoos
    137 | November 13, 2012 4:07 pm

    @ Speranza:
    right, as testimony…I wonder if it still exists


  137. Lily
    138 | November 13, 2012 4:08 pm

    @ Mars:

    Oh but I’m a h8ter! These are coming from heterosexuals too. Idiots.


  138. Speranza
    139 | November 13, 2012 4:08 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Lily:
    And now the news is coming out that there will be a serious doctor shortage arising from Obamacare. People are surprised. Let me rephrase that — LIBERALS are surprised — conservatives already knew it.

    As I have written several times before, I sense the dark shadows of the coming times. This will probably the last happy holiday season for tens of millions of us.


  139. heysoos
    140 | November 13, 2012 4:09 pm

    gonna have the Petition Blues pretty soon…
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-petition-calls-stripping-citizenship-and-exile-anyone-who-signs-petition-secede_663282.html

    don’t know who these people are but they are certainly not promoting free speech


  140. lobo91
    141 | November 13, 2012 4:09 pm

    @ Speranza:

    As I have written several times before, I sense the dark shadows of the coming times. These will probably the last happy holiday season for millions of us.

    The last one for me was in 2008.


  141. John Difool
    142 | November 13, 2012 4:09 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Lily:
    And now the news is coming out that there will be a serious doctor shortage arising from Obamacare. People are surprised. Let me rephrase that — LIBERALS are surprised — conservatives already knew it.

    They should have consulted most of the U.K. & European citizenry & asked them how much they love their government mandated healthcare.

    Aspirin has become a miracle drug over there, grows new hips, cures heart disease & cancer to name a few.


  142. heysoos
    143 | November 13, 2012 4:10 pm

    30mil new people in the system….where do the providers come from?…at LGF this was not an issue….duh


  143. Lily
    144 | November 13, 2012 4:11 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Lily:

    And now the news is coming out that there will be a serious doctor shortage arising from Obamacare. People are surprised. Let me rephrase that — LIBERALS are surprised — conservatives already knew it.

    Oh really??? They are surprised now. WHY IN THE HELL DIDN’T THEY LOOK INTO THAT HORRID BILL CALLED OBAMACARE. Just even a quick sweep of it and you can see the evil in it. Whenever one those people think obamacare is good…I ask did you read it? They say NO DID YOU? I certainly looked into it…better than you just accepting it.


  144. John Difool
    145 | November 13, 2012 4:12 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    gonna have the Petition Blues pretty soon…
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-petition-calls-stripping-citizenship-and-exile-anyone-who-signs-petition-secede_663282.html
    don’t know who these people are but they are certainly not promoting free speech

    A temper tantrum when the takers see that the makers want nothing to do with them anymore.

    Shouldn’t they be happy we can now go our separate ways since they despise us so much?

    Of course not, they know who’s really providing all of the sugar to Uncle Sugar.


  145. Speranza
    146 | November 13, 2012 4:12 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    right, as testimony…I wonder if it still exists

    There was one Tejano, a child named Enrique Esparaza whose father Gregorio was killed at the Alamo (and whose uncle was with Santa Anna’s army) and was in the chapel with the other civilians (and Enrique Esparza died in 1917 aged 89) who gave a good but limited account of the battle. Esparza’s father Gregorio Esparza was the only Alamo defender who was allowed a proper burial -- the others were burned.

    http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fes14


  146. lobo91
    147 | November 13, 2012 4:12 pm

    @ heysoos:

    Never mind the fact that the president lacks the authority to do what they ask, I really wonder about the intelligence of anyone who would sign one of those petitions in the first place.

    They’re pretty much asking to be placed on Obama’s “enemies list.”


  147. song_and_dance_man
    148 | November 13, 2012 4:13 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Oh really??? They are surprised now. WHY IN THE HELL DIDN’T THEY LOOK INTO THAT HORRID BILL CALLED OBAMACARE.

    Because they had to pass it to see what was in it./x100


  148. heysoos
    149 | November 13, 2012 4:15 pm

    new VDH is up…he’s pissed
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/333309/country-unhinged-victor-davis-hanson


  149. lobo91
    150 | November 13, 2012 4:15 pm

    @ Lily:

    They didn’t have to read it, silly.

    Their savior told them what was in it.

    //Faith


  150. Lily
    151 | November 13, 2012 4:15 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Lily:
    And now the news is coming out that there will be a serious doctor shortage arising from Obamacare. People are surprised. Let me rephrase that — LIBERALS are surprised — conservatives already knew it.

    As I have written several times before, I sense the dark shadows of the coming times. This will probably the last happy holiday season for tens of millions of us.

    Not sure on the *Happy* part this year…I’m sure they are going to feel it this season now..because companies are laying-off people at record rates so they can somehow stay afloat because of the monstrous obamacare. But hey let’s pass it first before we know what’s in it! Should have raised the hairs on most peoples necks..yet it didn’t.


  151. 152 | November 13, 2012 4:15 pm

    @ Lily:

    But don’t you DARE mock Mohammed! Obama said so!


  152. lobo91
    153 | November 13, 2012 4:16 pm

    @ heysoos:

    new VDH is up…he’s pissed

    I wonder about anyone who’s not pissed.


  153. Speranza
    154 | November 13, 2012 4:16 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    new VDH is up…he’s pissed
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/333309/country-unhinged-victor-davis-hanson

    Had he not resigned, Petraeus deserved a court martial.


  154. 155 | November 13, 2012 4:17 pm

    @ heysoos:

    Amazing -- I’m fine with it -- send me to Belize or Costa Rica -- that’s where a lot of our doctors are heading anyway.


  155. John Difool
    156 | November 13, 2012 4:17 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Never mind the fact that the president lacks the authority to do what they ask, I really wonder about the intelligence of anyone who would sign one of those petitions in the first place.
    They’re pretty much asking to be placed on Obama’s “enemies list.”

    I want to be on that list. I’ll wear it as a badge of honor.

    Let the reckoning come.


  156. lobo91
    157 | November 13, 2012 4:17 pm

    @ John Difool:

    The IRS is going to have to hire new agents to handle the audits of all the people who signed those petitions.


  157. Speranza
    158 | November 13, 2012 4:17 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Not sure on the *Happy* part this year…I’m sure they are going to feel it this season now..because companies are laying-off people at record rates so they can somehow stay afloat because of the monstrous obamacare. But hey let’s pass it first before we know what’s in it! Should have raised the hairs on most peoples necks..yet it didn’t.

    Of course there will be some temporary holiday hires and the MSM will trumpet the Obama Recovery.


  158. Lily
    159 | November 13, 2012 4:18 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    gonna have the Petition Blues pretty soon…
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-petition-calls-stripping-citizenship-and-exile-anyone-who-signs-petition-secede_663282.html

    don’t know who these people are but they are certainly not promoting free speech

    Which made me VERY, VERY LEARY of signing it. I was waiting to see what the treasonous obama administration would do. So what are they going to do? Kick people out of their country now? Because they signed a petition? We have that right to sign a petition now don’t we?


  159. heysoos
    160 | November 13, 2012 4:19 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Never mind the fact that the president lacks the authority to do what they ask, I really wonder about the intelligence of anyone who would sign one of those petitions in the first place.
    They’re pretty much asking to be placed on Obama’s “enemies list.”

    I would not sign one, but I understand why someone would…people are scared shitless at the moment


  160. song_and_dance_man
    161 | November 13, 2012 4:20 pm

    I suspect every one but the hard Left radical Americans are on the enemy list.


  161. John Difool
    162 | November 13, 2012 4:21 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    The IRS is going to have to hire new agents to handle the audits of all the people who signed those petitions.

    If you look at every single one of those petitions (some states have more than one)…assuming every single signature on every one of them is a different person,I’m estimating there may be as many as 250k & counting every minute.

    That’s gonna tie-up a lot of resources if they decide to investigate every single person.

    A reverse Cloward-Piven


  162. lobo91
    163 | November 13, 2012 4:23 pm

    @ John Difool:

    They don’t seem to be doing much to investigate people who are actual threats, so maybe that would give them something to do.


  163. Lily
    164 | November 13, 2012 4:23 pm

    John Difool wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    gonna have the Petition Blues pretty soon…
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-petition-calls-stripping-citizenship-and-exile-anyone-who-signs-petition-secede_663282.html
    don’t know who these people are but they are certainly not promoting free speech

    A temper tantrum when the takers see that the makers want nothing to do with them anymore.

    Shouldn’t they be happy we can now go our separate ways since they despise us so much?

    Of course not, they know who’s really providing all of the sugar to Uncle Sugar.

    I gather it will not be peaceful. It just gets worse by the day…yet
    obama cares about people….uh no he doesn’t unless they are in the middle east or in northern Africa.


  164. lobo91
    165 | November 13, 2012 4:25 pm

    @ Lily:

    obama cares about people….uh no he doesn’t unless they are in the middle east or in northern Africa.

    Or donated millions to his campaign.


  165. Lily
    166 | November 13, 2012 4:25 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:

    Never mind the fact that the president lacks the authority to do what they ask, I really wonder about the intelligence of anyone who would sign one of those petitions in the first place.

    They’re pretty much asking to be placed on Obama’s “enemies list.”

    Yep. And we all know how vindictive obama is ….he is all about revenge now in his second term.


  166. lobo91
    167 | November 13, 2012 4:26 pm

    @ Lily:

    Yep. And we all know how vindictive obama is ….he is all about revenge now in his second term.

    They’re already planning to hire thousands of new IRS agents to enforce Obamacare.

    This will just give them something to do between now and 2014.


  167. heysoos
    168 | November 13, 2012 4:27 pm

    where is the voice of the half-white people!


  168. Lily
    169 | November 13, 2012 4:27 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Lily:

    But don’t you DARE mock Mohammed! Obama said so!

    And that should have pissed off the Christians in this election where the hell were they???? Staying home in one of the more important elections this nation could be in? It boogles the mind.


  169. lobo91
    170 | November 13, 2012 4:28 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    where is the voice of the half-white people!

    It’s been replaced by the half-wits.


  170. John Difool
    171 | November 13, 2012 4:29 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    Never mind the fact that the president lacks the authority to do what they ask, I really wonder about the intelligence of anyone who would sign one of those petitions in the first place.
    They’re pretty much asking to be placed on Obama’s “enemies list.”

    I would not sign one, but I understand why someone would…people are scared shitless at the moment

    It’s not to say we want it to happen. As for me & I would guess the majority of the signers feel the sentiment is there & sending the message that it’s what could happen so you better wake the fuck up & stop playing stupid games.

    I don’t want it to happen, I pray people will come to their senses & soon but when you have one half of America vs. the other half almost drawn along a very uniform geographic line that splits the country pretty much in half sooner or later it’ll become much more than a digital petition & idle talk.


  171. Lily
    172 | November 13, 2012 4:30 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:

    new VDH is up…he’s pissed

    I wonder about anyone who’s not pissed.

    Like I said before there has always been sour grapes after an election …..but something different is going on here. A country in distress, jobs falling like the leaves off of trees. But hey we aren’t racist..oh wait we still are! They are still going on about the racist issue yet obama won. It’s insanity at best…evil at worst.


  172. lobo91
    173 | November 13, 2012 4:30 pm

    Hmm…I should check Leia’s tags.

    They’ll probably start checking dogs next.


  173. Lily
    174 | November 13, 2012 4:31 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ heysoos:

    Amazing — I’m fine with it — send me to Belize or Costa Rica — that’s where a lot of our doctors are heading anyway.

    Will we have the money?


  174. lobo91
    175 | November 13, 2012 4:32 pm

    The KSA (K-9 Security Agency) is coming


  175. Lily
    176 | November 13, 2012 4:34 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Never mind the fact that the president lacks the authority to do what they ask, I really wonder about the intelligence of anyone who would sign one of those petitions in the first place.
    They’re pretty much asking to be placed on Obama’s “enemies list.”

    I would not sign one, but I understand why someone would…people are scared shitless at the moment

    I understand why they signed it too…but I don’t want to be on obama’s radar right now.


  176. Guggi
    177 | November 13, 2012 4:34 pm

    John Difool wrote:

    I have lost all respect for Petraeus.

    Imho as a general he was overrated and I didn’t like his involvement with the CNAS. But that his wife doesn’t have more social competence is mind blogging since she is educationg military families how to spend money properly while she loved to go shopping with a woman who lost all jobs and is now in debt with millions.

    They all have no connections to reality and are a bad example for all the serving military women/men who put their lifes at risk.


  177. Lily
    178 | November 13, 2012 4:36 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:

    obama cares about people….uh no he doesn’t unless they are in the middle east or in northern Africa.

    Or donated millions to his campaign.

    Forgot those…but hey don’t count on that either..because he isn’t known for being loyal…*hint* Opray Winfrey did a lot for him and she was snubbed after he got elected the first time.


  178. Lily
    179 | November 13, 2012 4:38 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Thousands and thousands of them and oh the people who thought *obama cares more* is really going to feel that care of his. They will feel like they have been violated by a criminal of the most horridous sort.


  179. Lily
    180 | November 13, 2012 4:42 pm

    John Difool wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    Never mind the fact that the president lacks the authority to do what they ask, I really wonder about the intelligence of anyone who would sign one of those petitions in the first place.
    They’re pretty much asking to be placed on Obama’s “enemies list.”

    I would not sign one, but I understand why someone would…people are scared shitless at the moment

    It’s not to say we want it to happen. As for me & I would guess the majority of the signers feel the sentiment is there & sending the message that it’s what could happen so you better wake the fuck up & stop playing stupid games.

    I don’t want it to happen, I pray people will come to their senses & soon but when you have one half of America vs. the other half almost drawn along a very uniform geographic line that splits the country pretty much in half sooner or later it’ll become much more than a digital petition & idle talk.

    I don’t want it to happen either…but something is really wrong. This isn’t just sour grapes either. Will obama take the hint? Hell no..has he ever? He will double-down on dividing this country now; like it hasn’t been divided enough already, now it will be on steroids.


  180. John Difool
    181 | November 13, 2012 4:43 pm

    Lily wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    Never mind the fact that the president lacks the authority to do what they ask, I really wonder about the intelligence of anyone who would sign one of those petitions in the first place.
    They’re pretty much asking to be placed on Obama’s “enemies list.”
    I would not sign one, but I understand why someone would…people are scared shitless at the moment

    I understand why they signed it too…but I don’t want to be on obama’s radar right now.

    Or be on Hillary Clinton or Deval Patrick’s radar in 2016.

    Fuck the hiding bullshit.


  181. John Difool
    182 | November 13, 2012 4:46 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    John Difool wrote:
    I have lost all respect for Petraeus.
    Imho as a general he was overrated and I didn’t like his involvement with the CNAS. But that his wife doesn’t have more social competence is mind blogging since she is educationg military families how to spend money properly while she loved to go shopping with a woman who lost all jobs and is now in debt with millions.
    They all have no connections to reality and are a bad example for all the serving military women/men who put their lifes at risk.

    And now there’s talk that while Petraeus & Allen were in theater & working closely together they could have been carrying on affairs with both Broadwell & Kelley.

    Priorities.


  182. Lily
    183 | November 13, 2012 4:48 pm

    @ John Difool:

    I’m not hiding…I’m waiting. Difference. I have more pressing issues at home that scares the hell out of me. Because my son has a rare disease will he be given a pill because he is going blind, or ignored when his disease flares up…oh no I’m not hiding I’m protecting. You can’t see the difference can you…walk a mile in my shoes.


  183. Lily
    184 | November 13, 2012 4:51 pm

    @ John Difool:

    Cat got your keyboard?


  184. Guggi
    185 | November 13, 2012 4:51 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Had he not resigned, Petraeus deserved a court martial.

    Theoretical he could face one. Retirement doesn’t nullify military rules.


  185. John Difool
    186 | November 13, 2012 4:54 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ John Difool:
    I’m not hiding…I’m waiting. Difference. I have more pressing issues at home that scares the hell out of me. Because my son has a rare disease will he be given a pill because he is going blind, or ignored when his disease flares up…oh no I’m not hiding I’m protecting. You can’t see the difference can you…walk a mile in my shoes.

    I pray for you & your son, Lily & can see why you’re worried.


  186. Lily
    187 | November 13, 2012 4:54 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    Speranza wrote:

    Had he not resigned, Petraeus deserved a court martial.

    Theoretical he could face one. Retirement doesn’t nullify military rules.

    Hopefully he will be…but then again in this political climate ..I can’t predict a thing.


  187. Lily
    188 | November 13, 2012 4:56 pm

    @ John Difool:

    Thank-you. I am very worried. Very.


  188. Lily
    189 | November 13, 2012 5:00 pm

    And I have killed another thread. Dammit. Sorry. :(


  189. Tanker
    190 | November 13, 2012 5:01 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Guggi wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    Had he not resigned, Petraeus deserved a court martial.
    Theoretical he could face one. Retirement doesn’t nullify military rules.

    Hopefully he will be…but then again in this political climate ..I can’t predict a thing.

    He could, but I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t face a court martial. It would have to be proven that he violated a military law or directive while still in uniform! I believe he will slowly be moved out of the picture as fast as they can get him gone! He was the head of the CIA, he knows shit, and more than likely a lot of shit this administration doesn’t want out in the public domain!


  190. John Difool
    191 | November 13, 2012 5:01 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ John Difool:
    Thank-you. I am very worried. Very.

    The petitions are blow-back after the election & mostly people just venting & it feels good just to click & sign a digital petition that may touch the nerves of the idiots across the Potomac. No sane person wants to see the union dissolved.

    No sane person wants to see Barry pick two more SCOTUS justices either & that is where we cross the fold never to return again.


  191. Lily
    192 | November 13, 2012 5:04 pm

    Tanker wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Guggi wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    Had he not resigned, Petraeus deserved a court martial.
    Theoretical he could face one. Retirement doesn’t nullify military rules.

    Hopefully he will be…but then again in this political climate ..I can’t predict a thing.

    He could, but I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t face a court martial. It would have to be proven that he violated a military law or directive while still in uniform! I believe he will slowly be moved out of the picture as fast as they can get him gone! He was the head of the CIA, he knows shit, and more than likely a lot of shit this administration doesn’t want out in the public domain!

    Have to agree with you here. He will be pushed into the shadows as soon as they can do it.


  192. Lily
    193 | November 13, 2012 5:06 pm

    John Difool wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    @ John Difool:
    Thank-you. I am very worried. Very.

    The petitions are blow-back after the election & mostly people just venting & it feels good just to click & sign a digital petition that may touch the nerves of the idiots across the Potomac. No sane person wants to see the union dissolved.

    No sane person wants to see Barry pick two more SCOTUS justices either & that is where we cross the fold never to return again.

    A lot of un-sane people voted for another 4 years too. I understand what is going on..and obama will have all the free time to do more damage this time around.


  193. John Difool
    194 | November 13, 2012 5:07 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Tanker wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Guggi wrote:
    Speranza wrote:
    Had he not resigned, Petraeus deserved a court martial.
    Theoretical he could face one. Retirement doesn’t nullify military rules.
    Hopefully he will be…but then again in this political climate ..I can’t predict a thing.
    He could, but I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t face a court martial. It would have to be proven that he violated a military law or directive while still in uniform! I believe he will slowly be moved out of the picture as fast as they can get him gone! He was the head of the CIA, he knows shit, and more than likely a lot of shit this administration doesn’t want out in the public domain!

    Have to agree with you here. He will be pushed into the shadows as soon as they can do it.

    And when he & others are ordered to testify before Congress, they will just ignore the subpoenas until Obama claims executive privilege due to natty security & not much to do will be made about it with the gen-pop or the DLSM.


  194. Lily
    195 | November 13, 2012 5:07 pm

    @ Lily:

    I use un-sane instead of insane because these people know damn well who they were voting for..and insane person doesn’t have a grasp on reality.


  195. John Difool
    196 | November 13, 2012 5:08 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ Lily:
    I use un-sane instead of insane because these people know damn well who they were voting for..and insane person doesn’t have a grasp on reality.

    They have traded their liberties & freedoms for security & comfort….they deserve neither.


  196. Lily
    197 | November 13, 2012 5:10 pm

    John Difool wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    Tanker wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Guggi wrote:
    Speranza wrote:
    Had he not resigned, Petraeus deserved a court martial.
    Theoretical he could face one. Retirement doesn’t nullify military rules.
    Hopefully he will be…but then again in this political climate ..I can’t predict a thing.
    He could, but I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t face a court martial. It would have to be proven that he violated a military law or directive while still in uniform! I believe he will slowly be moved out of the picture as fast as they can get him gone! He was the head of the CIA, he knows shit, and more than likely a lot of shit this administration doesn’t want out in the public domain!

    Have to agree with you here. He will be pushed into the shadows as soon as they can do it.

    And when he & others are ordered to testify before Congress, they will just ignore the subpoenas until Obama claims executive privilege due to natty security & not much to do will be made about it with the gen-pop or the DLSM.

    They don’t have to ignore the subpoena’s at all…lawyer up and plead the fifth or make a deal. My bet is they plead the fifth.


  197. heysoos
    198 | November 13, 2012 5:10 pm

    when the general is called by Congress to testify, it won’t matter what his status is, he will either comply or be held in contempt….there is no way around Congress


  198. Lily
    199 | November 13, 2012 5:11 pm

    @ heysoos:

    He can plead the 5th can’t he?


  199. Lily
    200 | November 13, 2012 5:13 pm

    John Difool wrote:

    Lily wrote:

    @ Lily:
    I use un-sane instead of insane because these people know damn well who they were voting for..and insane person doesn’t have a grasp on reality.

    They have traded their liberties & freedoms for security & comfort….they deserve neither.

    I don’t understand it and probably never will but to trade all that and your soul for a politician is un-sane.


  200. John Difool
    201 | November 13, 2012 5:13 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    when the general is called by Congress to testify, it won’t matter what his status is, he will either comply or be held in contempt….there is no way around Congress

    Tell that to Eric Holder.


  201. Guggi
    202 | November 13, 2012 5:13 pm

    Tanker wrote:

    He could, but I’d be willing to bet he doesn’t face a court martial.

    That’s why I wrote “theoretical” :-(


  202. citizen_q
    203 | November 13, 2012 5:16 pm

    Looks like that after election flexibility is going to be exercised as promised.

    Putin: Obama Plans to Visit Russia

    “US President Barack Obama has confirmed plans to visit Russia at the invitation of his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin, the Russian president’s spokesman said on Tuesday,” the Russian outlet reports. “Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Obama made the statement when Putin called a second time to congratulate the US president on his reelection.”


  203. John Difool
    204 | November 13, 2012 5:18 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    Looks like that after election flexibility is going to be exercised as promised.
    Putin: Obama Plans to Visit Russia
    “US President Barack Obama has confirmed plans to visit Russia at the invitation of his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin, the Russian president’s spokesman said on Tuesday,” the Russian outlet reports. “Spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Obama made the statement when Putin called a second time to congratulate the US president on his reelection.”

    Obama going to deliver that blow-job to Putin he promised Medvedev he’d give him after the election.


  204. 205 | November 13, 2012 5:19 pm

    New Thread.


  205. heysoos
    206 | November 13, 2012 5:20 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    He can plead the 5th can’t he?

    he cannot be compelled to testify against himself, but he is compelled to testify otherwise…if not, he’s in contemp…and btw the Fifth is different for military as opposed to civilian cases…but that’s not clear to me


  206. Tanker
    207 | November 13, 2012 5:21 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    when the general is called by Congress to testify, it won’t matter what his status is, he will either comply or be held in contempt….there is no way around Congress

    Only if they are willing to push it through to the end. National Security issues can trump many things.


  207. Tanker
    208 | November 13, 2012 5:24 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    He can plead the 5th can’t he?

    he cannot be compelled to testify against himself, but he is compelled to testify otherwise…if not, he’s in contemp…and btw the Fifth is different for military as opposed to civilian cases…but that’s not clear to me

    He is a retired General or just another civilian unless forces off retirement. Military rules don’t apply!


  208. 209 | November 13, 2012 11:05 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ huckfunn:
    Is this thread sending a subliminal message? Hint Republic of Texas!

    HELL YEAH!

    That’d be the ONLY thing that would keep us from moving to an entirely foreign shore.

    @ John Difool:
    Given Romney’s unwise, Russia-baiting statements, I cannot blame Putin for endorsing Obama. That doesn’t make Putin a commie -- it makes him a loyal Russian citizen.

    John Difool wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    @ John Difool:
    Thank-you. I am very worried. Very.

    The petitions are blow-back after the election & mostly people just venting & it feels good just to click & sign a digital petition that may touch the nerves of the idiots across the Potomac. No sane person wants to see the union dissolved.
    No sane person wants to see Barry pick two more SCOTUS justices either & that is where we cross the fold never to return again.

    I would rather see this union dissolved if it means the preservation or restoration of Constitutional government in some part of the US, rather than lose the entirety of it.

    What you or I or any putatively sane person wants matters not. The dissolution of these United States cannot now be avoided. Look at the national debt that was incurred over the objections, and without the consent, of those who will be taxed to pay for it -- and which is already too great to be repaid. It isn’t ideology -- it’s mathematics.


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