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Romney outperformed the Republican Party

by Rodan ( 161 Comments › )
Filed under Conservatism, Elections 2012, Mitt Romney, Republican Party at November 15th, 2012 - 11:00 am

Some Conservatives are blaming Mitt Romney for the GOP’s defeat last Tuesday. Yes he made some mistakes, especially not fighting back for three months. However the main culprit for Obama’s re-election was the Republican Party itself. The Party has a messaging problem and has not built any infrastructure. It takes a one size fits all view of the electorate instead of micro-targeting groups as the Democrats do. Mitt Romney outperformed the party as a whole and it was the GOP that actually dragged him down.

The first thing conservatives should understand about the electoral catastrophe that just befell us — and it was a catastrophe — is that any explanation of it that centers on Mitt Romney is mistaken.

Much of the discussion of the race among conservatives has made the opposite assumption. “Romney proved to be the kind of electoral drag many of us suspected he would always be,” wrote one conservative the morning after the election. “It was a flawed candidacy from the start,” wrote two others. “Romney’s caution and ever-shifting policy positions made him seem fearful, which is to say weak. His biography hurt him. . . . And because of his own history in Massachusetts, he could never effectively go after President Obama on Obamacare, the president’s biggest political weakness.” Another called Romney “the worst candidate to win his party’s nomination since WWII.” Still another wrote, “There will be a lot of blame to go around, but, if Republicans are honest, they’ll have to concede that the Romney campaign ran a bad campaign.”

[....]

Romney was not a drag on the Republican party. The Republican party was a drag on him. Aaron Blake pointed out in the Washington Post that Romney ran ahead of most of the Republican Senate candidates: He did better than Connie Mack in Florida, George Allen in Virginia, Tommy Thompson in Wisconsin, Denny Rehberg in Montana, Jeff Flake in Arizona, Pete Hoekstra in Michigan, Deb Fischer in Nebraska, Rick Berg in North Dakota, Josh Mandel in Ohio, and of course Todd Akin in Missouri and Richard Mourdock in Indiana. In some cases Romney did a lot better. (He also did slightly better than Ted Cruz in Texas, a race Blake for some reason ignored.)

{….]

Akin and Mourdock have received a lot of attention because they fit into the story of the Senate elections of 2010. Most observers believe that Republican-primary voters threw away three Senate seats that year by choosing unelectable extremists over candidates who could have won. This year, Akin and Mourdock each made comments about abortion and rape that doomed them. If not for these five mistakes in candidate selection, Republicans would have 50 seats. So goes the story.

[....]

All these candidates lost not because of the idiosyncrasies of this or that candidate or the flaws of this or that faction of the Republican party. They lost not because of the particular vices of the Tea Party, or of social conservatives, or of the party establishment. The most logical explanation for the pattern is that something common to all Republicans brought them down, and the simplest explanation is that their party is weak — and has been for a long time. Consider the evidence: Republicans have lost the popular vote in five of the last six presidential elections. Since the Senate reached its current size, Democrats have had more than 55 seats 13 times; Republicans, never.

There is a structural pattern with the Republican Party. It doesn’t help that the last two Republican Presidents where failures, they have terrible message discipline and have people like Akin or Santorum to be the face of the Party. The media is clearly the enemy of the GOP, yet party leaders still treat it with respect.

The Republicans have been in bad shape before. In 1948, Thomas Dewey should have beaten Harry Truman. The economy was stagnant and Truman was unpopular, yet people still didn’t trust the GOP. Over the next 4 years, Dewey convinced Eisenhower to run and help reshape the party by purging the isolationist wing. Eisenhower with the support of Dewey also changed the GOP’s message to make it relevant in mid 20th Century America. The result was that from 1952 to 1988 the Republican Party went 7-3 in Presidential elections. Most of these victories where landslides.

After the defeat of 2012, The Republican Party has an opportunity to reshape itself and make its message relevant for the 21st Century. Mitt Romney unfortunately did not realize the extent of the bad image of the Republican Party. He ran the best he could, but the GOP dragged him down. The next 4 years should be spent on building infrastructure, tailoring the Republican message for diverse constituencies and practicing message discipline.

The Republican Party should engage in class warfare. The super rich vote and fund the Democratic Party and Progressive projects. It’s time for the GOP to tailor its economic message exclusively for the Middle Class. We should be the party of Main Street and not Wall Street. The Republicans should propose a tax hike on those earning 1 Million dollars, eliminate tax free trust funds and impose a tax on the entertainment industry. Turn the table on the Left.

There is much work to be done, but I feel Conservatives can win the future.

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161 Responses to “Romney outperformed the Republican Party”
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  1. Speranza
    1 | November 15, 2012 11:09 am

    True. While not a perfect candidate Mitt Romney had all the qualifications to be president and gave us the best choice of winning. He made several mistakes – going nativist in the debate with Rick Perry on the in-state tuition (which was none of Romney’s fucking business but Texas’s business)was one, not mentioning the BP Oil spill was another as was not running any ads in the summer when Obama was defining him as a vulture capitalist to counter that misconception was another one. However, the image of the Republican Party (most of it unfair) as being a Party of Akin’s, Mourdock’s, etc. really stuck. Governor Romney also seemed to be content with his first debate performance and hesitated to build on that one. I would have run some ads with Jon Corzine’s picture and quoting Obama that he always asked Corzine advice about economics.


  2. RIX
    2 | November 15, 2012 11:10 am

    I basically buy into this article. McCain was a weak candidate, Romney
    was not.
    The Media & shifting demographics did him in.
    The Republicans have to position themselves as the champion
    of the Middle Class.


  3. Speranza
    3 | November 15, 2012 11:19 am

    RIX wrote:

    I basically buy into this article. McCain was a weak candidate, Romney
    was not.
    The Media & shifting demographics did him in.
    The Republicans have to position themselves as the champion
    of the Middle Class.

    Also the GOP primary system went on way too long and the final couple of candidates left standing such as Cain, Gingrich and Santorum had zero chances of winning a national election. I recall several people here and on WeaselZippers claiming that Newt Gingrich ought to be the nominee because “He would wipe the floor with Obama in a debate”. Yeah so what – Romney wiped the floor in the first debate with Obama and how did that wind up for him”?


  4. buzzsawmonkey
    4 | November 15, 2012 11:23 am

    In the meantime, Outrage over Rice is now the official dish of the Obama Administration.


  5. Guggi
    5 | November 15, 2012 11:43 am

    BP to pay $4.5 billion in Gulf oil spill settlement

    BP has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges and to pay $4.5 billion over the 2010 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. It vowed to continue to fight federal government civil claims.


  6. heysoos
    6 | November 15, 2012 11:46 am

    Guggi wrote:

    BP to pay $4.5 billion in Gulf oil spill settlement
    BP has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges and to pay $4.5 billion over the 2010 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. It vowed to continue to fight federal government civil claims.

    BP should have bankrupted and sold off piece by piece, like an old car


  7. buzzsawmonkey
  8. 8 | November 15, 2012 11:53 am

    @ Speranza:

    If Romney couldn’t win then none of the people in our field could have won. Sure, Gingrich might have brought out more of the base, but he would have lost as much from the middle. It was a close election, really. Move one percent of the vote in the right states (it doesn’t matter how much we lost California by) and you turn the election. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It really does’t matter. All we can do is go on from here.


  9. Speranza
    9 | November 15, 2012 11:56 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    If Romney couldn’t win then none of the people in our field could have won. Sure, Gingrich might have brought out more of the base, but he would have lost as much from the middle. It was a close election, really. Move one percent of the vote in the right states (it doesn’t matter how much we lost California by) and you turn the election. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It really does’t matter. All we can do is go on from here.

    Agreed. I am not happy with some of the conspiracy talk here on this blog and others.


  10. MikeA
    10 | November 15, 2012 11:59 am

    @ Speranza:

    Come on Speranza… It could have been mind control waves by the aliens from Sorgon 3. I have seen them!!!!! You can’t tell me that is just a crazy conspiracy.


  11. Speranza
    11 | November 15, 2012 12:00 pm

    MikeA wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Come on Speranza… It could have been mind control waves by the aliens from Sorgon 3. I have seen them!!!!! You can’t tell me that is just a crazy conspiracy.

    Masterminded by Halliburton executives.


  12. waldensianspirit
    12 | November 15, 2012 12:01 pm

    All this hand wringing of those you don’t like in the GOP tent means squat unless you continue to believe the other side is playing by the rules. Otherwise you have to see Obama borrowed the future from the yet unborn Americans to bribe voters from day one of his inauguration


  13. buzzsawmonkey
    13 | November 15, 2012 12:02 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    @ Speranza:

    It is entirely possible that Romney was the best candidate; that he screwed up in several ways; that he was sabotaged to some degree by the Republican establishment; and that various forms of fraud, vote-buying, etc., also contributed to his loss.

    None of these things are mutually exclusive.


  14. 14 | November 15, 2012 12:07 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    None of these things are mutually exclusive.

    Absolutely true. There is no doubt that there was some fraud. The Democrats practically cry to the Heavens that they fully intend to use voter fraud in every election. There has probably never been a more blatantly stolen election than the one that put Al Franken in the Senate, not even in the Third World. It is even possible that voter fraud tipped a State this time, but not enough to make a real difference. IF Romney couldn’t win Florida, he couldn’t win th ePresidency. That is just the cold, hard math of it. We need to begin preparing for 2014 and 2016 now, though. I think it is too late for the United States, but we should go down fighting.


  15. Storagemanager
    15 | November 15, 2012 12:13 pm

    First time

    Two explosions were head in Tel Aviv following an air raid siren Thursday evening.

    There were no reports of injuries or damage at the time of this report. http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=292064


  16. Storagemanager
    16 | November 15, 2012 12:19 pm

    The Pictures Coming Out of Israel Are Chilling — See Our Collection Showing the Aftermath http://www.theblaze.com/stories/the-pictures-coming-out-of-israel-are-chilling-see-our-collection-showing-the-aftermath/


  17. Storagemanager
    17 | November 15, 2012 12:20 pm

    Rocket From Gaza Slams Into Tel Aviv, Islamic Jihad Takes Credit… http://weaselzippers.us/


  18. Storagemanager
    18 | November 15, 2012 12:23 pm

    Rush….new head of the C.I.A. to say no help was requested for C.I.A. outpost……Lies and more Lies to be told.


  19. 19 | November 15, 2012 12:24 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    They should kill everyone associated with Islamic Jihad, too. Take out Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and you won’t have that many Palestinians left in Gaza. Then they could pave it over and turn it into Walmart parking, for all I care. Their policy should be one of maximum attrition to the Palestinians. They’ll run out of them eventually.


  20. 20 | November 15, 2012 12:26 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    We know better than that. The question is what are we going to do about it? Are the Republicans going to let them get away with it? The media certainly is. The media is part of the cover-up. We know help was requested and denied three times. What we don’t know for sure is who gave that order. I think it has to have been Obama himself. Certainly Obama had more than enough time to have ordered them relieved if he had desired to do so.


  21. Storagemanager
    21 | November 15, 2012 12:28 pm

    Sirens in Tel Aviv Area, Rocket ‘Falls into the Sea’

    Rocket hurt no one. IDF massing ground forces near Gaza. Minister: Gaza is in for unprecedented attack. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162132


  22. heysoos
    22 | November 15, 2012 12:32 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    the CIA reports directly to the DNI who works for the president, as does the DoS…doesn’t matter who claims what, POTUS is responsible


  23. bluliner10
    23 | November 15, 2012 12:39 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    The CIA did not tell anybody to stand down. The guys that left the Annex and drove to consulate were told to stand by while the Libyan Quick Reaction Force was contacted to ensure that both elements’ movements were closely coordinated, as it turned out the Libyans did not deploy. The members of the team that Glen Doherty arrived with were from Tripoli. They were on the ground a little over 3 ours after the start, in a chartered plane and with a ground delay at the Benghazi airfield. It was the DoD forces in the area which were given prepare to execute, and never got the execute command. Until it was way too late.


  24. 24 | November 15, 2012 12:40 pm

    @ heysoos:

    You see that, I see that, probably everyone but the Outsider that reads this blog sees that, but do the American sheeple see that? I strongly doubt it, and the MFM will do their very best to obfuscate and hide that fact. I grieve for my nation.


  25. Storagemanager
    25 | November 15, 2012 12:40 pm

    When the CIA’s acting director, Michael Morell, testifies Thursday before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, he is expected to say that the agency never requested Europe-based special operations teams, specialized Marine platoons, or armed drones on the night of the Sept. 11 attack in Benghazi, Libya, according to a senior U.S. intelligence official. http://hotair.com/archives/2012/11/15/petraeus-replacement-to-testify-cia-never-requested-military-assistance-in-benghazi/


  26. 26 | November 15, 2012 12:43 pm

    Rodan, excellent analysis, and by the way something which we have been saying here for years. The question is, how long will the GOP place itself in almost direct opposition to its base constituency? I have never seen this before in history, a political party that looks at its own makeup with disdain and contempt.

    What is most perplexing to me is the announcement that they, meaning the GOP apparatchiks, plan on doubling down on this course of action.


  27. heysoos
    27 | November 15, 2012 12:44 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    I forgot to add the tag…’you knew that’ which of course you did….sometimes I post to myself I think


  28. 28 | November 15, 2012 12:45 pm

    bluliner10 wrote:

    It was the DoD forces in the area which were given prepare to execute, and never got the execute command.

    And why was that order so delayed? It isn’t like this thing happened in twenty minutes of hard fighting. The Obama White House had about seven hours in which to respond. I don’t buy that they were just paralyzed by indecision, though even that would be incompetance at the highest levels of our government. No, we had assets all over the Med that could have responded to this, even if we’d had to scramble them out of Europe to relieve those people. The Obama White House was having none of it. We, the American People, deserve to kno wwhy, but I doubt we’;ll ever get the answer. It seems plain to me that someone at the highest level of our government wanted the Jihadis to succeed. Remember, they didn’t bother securing the Consulate after this, either. News crews were going through the rubble and finding things like the Ambassador’s diary weeks after hostilities had ended. If they could do it, al Qaeda intelligence could have done it as well. No, this is a criminal level of negligence.


  29. 29 | November 15, 2012 12:47 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    After two months, they have thei story straight, and they are going to stick with it. That it in no way resembles the truth will have no impact on them. Truth means nothing to Democrats.


  30. Storagemanager
    30 | November 15, 2012 12:48 pm

    But Morell’s explanation, as related by Lake, doesn’t make a lot of sense. If the consulate and the CIA annex was under heavy and deliberate attack by forces using mortars and RPGs, why wouldn’t they ask for the military assistance that they knew was on standby for just this sort of contingency? Why just ask for an unarmed surveillance drone rather than something that could potentially offer a diversion for the extraction of personnel from the consulate? It’s difficult to imagine that the intelligence unit under fire off an on for seven hours would never have requested military assistance to save the lives of the people in the compound — not impossible, perhaps, but certainly implausible. http://hotair.com/archives/2012/11/15/petraeus-replacement-to-testify-cia-never-requested-military-assistance-in-benghazi/


  31. bluliner10
    31 | November 15, 2012 12:48 pm

    @ Storagemanager:
    That is not the job of the CIA to request those things. That would be the Dept of State requesting the assets. A lot of things are becoming very clear right now. I have a very hard opinion right now of General Patreaus, and that he should be recalled and subjected to Courts-martial. I suspect that will happen anyways. All he can do now is tell the truth.


  32. Storagemanager
    32 | November 15, 2012 12:50 pm

    A report in the Chinese state-run Xinhua outlet claims that President Barack Obama congratulated Xi Jinping on his “election” to be the top Communist in China. Jinping will be the next president of China, and now controls the Chinese military.

    “I recall your successful visit to the United States last February, and the positive and constructive discussions we had about the future of U.S.-China relations,” Obama reportedly told the Chinese Communist chief.

    “I look forward to working with you in the years ahead to continue building a cooperative partnership that benefits both of our peoples and advances peace and prosperity, especially through practical cooperation on regional and global economic and security challenges.”
    http://weaselzippers.us/


  33. 33 | November 15, 2012 12:51 pm

    @ Speranza:

    I supported Gingrich because his positions and statements were in my opinion the best course for our national well being. My belief that Gingrich would have won the national election had zero to do with any hypothetical debate. Gingrich’s issues were winning issues. He lost in the primaries due to a lack of money and infrastructure to match the formidable machine that Mitt Romney had put together, and due to the misconception that he would not have been able to shake off the mistaken Grinch image that had been painted of him by his opponents.

    When Gingrich was thrown overboard, his policy positions went with him, and so did conservatism. So here we are today with another nice guy loser who hailed from the liberal wing of the party. We lost an election we should have won, we lost Senate Seats in a year we should have gained, and we lost House Seats in a year we should have made a net pick up.

    The only good news of the election is that the Tea Party House members will now have a greater percentage of the vote in a smaller GOP majority, thus making the Tea Party actually more powerful than it was previously. This is key, since the shift to the left in the Senate will be painfully obvious in about a month’s time.


  34. Storagemanager
    34 | November 15, 2012 12:55 pm

    Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said on Thursday that Turkey recognized the Syrian National Coalition as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people.

    Turkey, a former ally of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, follows moves by France, the United States and other countries to throw support behind the new coalition which formed in Doha on Sunday.

    France on Tuesday recognized the opposition as the sole representative and said the question of arming the opposition must now be reviewed. The United States called it “a legitimate representative” of the Syrian people.

    The “Syrian opposition decided to join forces for their common objective,” the Turkish Foreign Ministry quoted Davutoglu as saying at a meeting of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation, which is being held in Djibouti.
    http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/15/249838.html


  35. bluliner10
    35 | November 15, 2012 12:55 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    It was delayed because it is a highly charged situation with gunfire, you don’t want to shoot your supporting forces or get shot by your supporting forces as you both converge on the objective. Fratricide, blue on green, call it what you will, you have to coordinate your movements. CIA stated that they did not refuse or order anybody to stand-down. I have to believe that is true. That is why the sword fell so swiftly. It was why the President fumbled the answer yesterday. He stated that “he directed all appropriate measures are taken to protect those folks”. Then either DoD/JCS just disobeyed an order, or and more likely, finishing with your final statement. He walked away, packed his overnight bag and let the consulate fall.


  36. Fritz Katz
    36 | November 15, 2012 12:57 pm

    Here in Florida, we ran a Republican, Connie Mack, with an almost perfect voting record. Early on in the election, our sleazy Senator, Bill Nelson, painted him as a rich, drunken, frat-boy, who never, ever even bothered to show up for meetings or voting. (How can you have a perfect voting record if you don’t show up to vote?) Nelson said Mack was a rich, privileged, son of a multi-millionaire who never worked a honest day in his life and called him “Connie Mack IV” (to link him in your mind with Thurston Howell III). Nelson said Connie wanted to gut medicare (even though Nelson voted to transfer over $700B from Medicare to Obamacare). The news media joined in and our local TV news stations always referred to Mack as “Connie Mack IV”

    Connie Mack countered by spending millions running endless commercials showing his clean, upright family.

    Nelson won re-election.


  37. Lily
    37 | November 15, 2012 12:58 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    BP to pay $4.5 billion in Gulf oil spill settlement

    BP has agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges and to pay $4.5 billion over the 2010 oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. It vowed to continue to fight federal government civil claims.

    And Louisiana will not get a dime over it.


  38. Lily
    38 | November 15, 2012 1:00 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Speranza:

    If Romney couldn’t win then none of the people in our field could have won. Sure, Gingrich might have brought out more of the base, but he would have lost as much from the middle. It was a close election, really. Move one percent of the vote in the right states (it doesn’t matter how much we lost California by) and you turn the election. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. It really does’t matter. All we can do is go on from here.

    Bascially what I think too. In fact I think Romney grew into the position has time went on. Why obama got re-elected is beyond me. Of course people will give reasons why..but obama is not your normal politician in my opinion.


  39. Storagemanager
    39 | November 15, 2012 1:02 pm

    Obama has a machine that beat Clinton….real money and real power…


  40. Storagemanager
    40 | November 15, 2012 1:03 pm

    I remember people posting in 08…nobody can beat Clinton…


  41. Storagemanager
    41 | November 15, 2012 1:05 pm

    Up a notch

    Report: Hamas Fires Anti-Aircraft Missile At IDF Warplane Near Gaza… http://weaselzippers.us/


  42. 42 | November 15, 2012 1:05 pm

    This is more interesting because of where it is than what it says:

    AS BIPARTISAN negotiations over avoiding the “fiscal cliff” draw nearer, many of President Obama’s core Democratic supporters are urging him to fix the debt through defense cuts and tax increases rather than by tackling Social Security, Medicare and other federal entitlement programs. It’s a reprise of progressive resistance to the entitlement trims Mr. Obama contemplated during the abortive debt-reduction negotiations with House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) last year. This time, though, the Democratic base is claiming vindication in the just-completed election.

    Fair enough. Mr. Obama won on a pledge to raise more revenue from the wealthy, and labor unions and like-minded groups provided much of the funding and many of the foot soldiers for his campaign. Nevertheless, on this he must tell his political base no. Any serious debt-reduction plan has to include revenue and defense cuts. But no serious one can exclude entitlements.

    With Republicans in control of the House and holding 45 votes in the Senate, this is basic political realism. It’s also fiscal realism, as the most recent Congressional Budget Office review of the long-term budget outlook, published in June, explained. Spending on retirement income and health care is headed inexorably higher as the population ages. In 2012, Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid accounted for 10.4 percent of gross domestic product (GDP). All other non-interest federal outlays, defense included, totaled 11.6 percent of GDP. If present policies and population trends continue, the three entitlement programs would grow to 12.9 percent of GDP by 2022, while all other spending would shrink by 4 percentage points as a share of GDP.

    Think about that. Social Security, Meidcare, and Medicade would be 12.9% of GDP. What they don’t say is that under Obama we will be borrowing all of that money, and more besides. Quite simply, the country can’t afford this. It is a matter of simple mathmatics.


  43. Storagemanager
    43 | November 15, 2012 1:06 pm

    Israeli armored forces gathered, Thursday evening around Gaza. They are awaiting a decision by the political echelon on a ground operation inside the Hamas-controlled area http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/254927


  44. Storagemanager
    44 | November 15, 2012 1:09 pm

    Israel understands what America will not…

    Via IDF Blog:

    It’s important to understand what Hamas stands for.

    Hamas defines itself as being in a continuous state of war with Israel. The group refuses to recognize Israel’s right to exist. Hamas’ charter states:

    “Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”

    Hamas’ so-called spiritual leaders provide religious justification for unimaginable depravity. In their sermons, they consistently incite their followers to hate Israel and Jews.

    “…our mantle is ‘Death to the Jews and to America.’”

    Friday Sermon on Hamas TV, December 2, 2011

    “The annihilation of the Jews here in Palestine is one of the most splendid blessings for Palestine.” – Muhsen Abu ‘Ita, July 13, 2008
    http://weaselzippers.us/


  45. Storagemanager
    45 | November 15, 2012 1:11 pm

    Hamas Fires Iranian-Built Missiles into Northern Israel – Tel Aviv Hit (Video)

    Posted by Jim Hoft on Thursday, November 15, 2012, 12:05 PM

    ROCKETS STRIKE TEL AVIV!! FIRED BY HAMAS FROM GAZA
    Islamic Jihad took credit for the missile attack.
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/


  46. Storagemanager
    46 | November 15, 2012 1:11 pm

    The armed wing of Islamic Jihad said it had fired an Iranian-built rocket at the Israeli city of Tel Aviv,


  47. Lily
    47 | November 15, 2012 1:11 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    @ Speranza:

    It is entirely possible that Romney was the best candidate; that he screwed up in several ways; that he was sabotaged to some degree by the Republican establishment; and that various forms of fraud, vote-buying, etc., also contributed to his loss.

    None of these things are mutually exclusive.

    A mixed soup of reasons.


  48. Storagemanager
    48 | November 15, 2012 1:13 pm

    Republican lawmakers, after struggling for weeks to get answers on the Libya terror attack, ripped into the Obama administration Thursday — with one congressman claiming officials “lied to the American people.”

    Tempers boiled over as the House Foreign Affairs Committee held a hearing with several analysts, though none would be considered key figures in the administration’s Benghazi attack response. A few officials with inside knowledge were briefing select lawmakers behind closed doors Thursday; and in a win for lawmakers, Foreign Affairs Committee Chairwoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., announced that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will testify next month.

    But the House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing swiftly became a venue for lawmakers to voice their frustrations and lob accusations at the administration. Lawmakers sparred early and often, with Democrats accusing Republicans of turning a tragedy into a “political football” and Republicans accusing the administration of hiding the truth.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/15/lawmakers-dig-for-answers-on-libya-in-round-public-private-hearings/#ixzz2CJfs2Fad


  49. 49 | November 15, 2012 1:13 pm

    bluliner10 wrote:

    Then either DoD/JCS just disobeyed an order

    If that had happend, Obama himself would be the loudest person calling for their scalps, and rightly so. No, no one disobeyed any order from the President. As for the rest, I doubt we’ll ever know the truth. There have been persistent reports that military assets were in the area and told to stand down. We know that there were military assets in theater with them. We probably will never know the truth about their disposition. The pattern from the Obama Administration has been lies and cover-ups from the very day after, though. We know Susan Rice lied to th enation, and we know the Obama Administration knew that she was lying. Obama says he instructed her to go on those shows, and I believe him there, but they knew they were lying when they blamed this on an obscure YouTube video. Obama compounded this lie a few weeks later in his address to the UN, so it was not merely the “fog of war”, but a planned response.


  50. Lily
    50 | November 15, 2012 1:14 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:

    We know better than that. The question is what are we going to do about it? Are the Republicans going to let them get away with it? The media certainly is. The media is part of the cover-up. We know help was requested and denied three times. What we don’t know for sure is who gave that order. I think it has to have been Obama himself. Certainly Obama had more than enough time to have ordered them relieved if he had desired to do so.

    I believe it was obama himself also..and he was in campaign mode and didn’t want another black-hawk down and therefore made no attempt at rescue.


  51. Lily
    51 | November 15, 2012 1:17 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ heysoos:

    You see that, I see that, probably everyone but the Outsider that reads this blog sees that, but do the American sheeple see that? I strongly doubt it, and the MFM will do their very best to obfuscate and hide that fact. I grieve for my nation.

    Hasn’t the MSM been doing their very best to cover this up? The order had to have come from obama…why else did he send Susan Rice out the Sunday after blaming it on a youtube clip?


  52. Lily
    52 | November 15, 2012 1:20 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Unless there was something they were doing there that they didn’t want information of getting out. I do know this it is even deeper than it appears…the cover-up and the reason for the cover-up.


  53. Storagemanager
    53 | November 15, 2012 1:21 pm

    I still say it was a gun transfer to the Syrian rebels that went wrong…it was black ops and it fumbled..


  54. Storagemanager
    54 | November 15, 2012 1:23 pm

    Obama remembered this….Operation Eagle Claw (or Operation Evening Light or Operation Rice Bowl)[3] was an American military operation ordered by President Jimmy Carter to attempt to put an end to the Iran hostage crisis by rescuing 52 Americans held captive at the U.S. Embassy in Tehran, Iran on 24 April 1980. Its failure, and the humiliating public debacle that ensued, damaged American prestige worldwide and is believed by many, including Carter himself, to have played a major role in his defeat in the 1980 presidential election. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw


  55. Lily
    55 | November 15, 2012 1:24 pm

    @ Flyovercountry:

    Gingrich had a snowballs chance in hell. Too much baggage and the American people would not have gone for him….if he were the candidate obama would have won by a huge margin. Sure his policies looked good…


  56. Lily
    56 | November 15, 2012 1:26 pm

    @ Fritz Katz:

    Class warfare.


  57. Storagemanager
    57 | November 15, 2012 1:26 pm

    The Magen David Adom emergency service raised its alert status to its highest on Thursday evening in central Israel.

    The move followed the killing of three people, Thursday morning, in a rocket attack on Kiryat Malachi and the wounding of three soldiers by a rocket in the Eshkol Council region.
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/254931


  58. 58 | November 15, 2012 1:26 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    Iran-Contra II? Except no one got killed in Iran-Contra, at least on our side. That certainly could have been what was going on, but why the cover-up, then? While distasteful to conservatives, there would be nothing illegal about transferring Libyan fighters and weapons to Syria, nor do I think that that would have hurt Obama in his re-election campaign. After all, his putatively anti-war base bought his intervention in Libya and his aiding al Qaeda in Libya did little to dim enthusiasm in the critical elements of his coalition. No, just as Fast and Furious was never about gun tracking, there is something else going on here. I think part of it can be seen in the Obama Administration’s rhetoric following the attack. It is clear that Obama is wishing to carve out an exemption to the First Amendment for Mohammed and against anything that offends the Mohammedans. What else may have been going on is anybody’s guess.


  59. bluliner10
    59 | November 15, 2012 1:27 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    I am convinced it will come out. Lily hits a homerun with the Operation Gothic Serpent reference. I said it before the Gutsy Call president ignored the phone this time.


  60. 60 | November 15, 2012 1:34 pm

    bluliner10 wrote:

    Lily hits a homerun with the Operation Gothic Serpent reference.

    That would be the Blackhawk Down incident? That could have been it, but that is still derriliction of duty on Obama’s part. And that doesn’t justify or even really explain his insistance for two weeks that this was the result of an obscure YouTube video.


  61. Storagemanager
    61 | November 15, 2012 1:35 pm

    A missile was fired at a tank carrier, Thursday evening, as it travelled on a highway leading to the Gaza border, next to Giv’at Nizmit in the Kibbutz Miflasim area.

    The truck suffered a light blow. No injuries were reported.
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/254933


  62. heysoos
    62 | November 15, 2012 1:35 pm

    by it’s own words…
    “Protecting and assisting U.S. citizens living or traveling abroad”

    DoS didn’t do it’s job and BO is the boss…put him under oath


  63. Speranza
    63 | November 15, 2012 1:35 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    It is entirely possible that Romney was the best candidate; that he screwed up in several ways; that he was sabotaged to some degree by the Republican establishment; and that various forms of fraud, vote-buying, etc., also contributed to his loss.

    He was the Republican Establishment choice – unless they wanted him to lose so Jeb Porky Bush could be the 2016 candidate.


  64. 64 | November 15, 2012 1:36 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    The Zip story is complete with lovely photo of shithead BOWING to the little tyrant U.S. debt holder head of China.


  65. Speranza
    65 | November 15, 2012 1:37 pm

    Flyovercountry wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I supported Gingrich because his positions and statements were in my opinion the best course for our national well being. My belief that Gingrich would have won the national election had zero to do with any hypothetical debate. Gingrich’s issues were winning issues. He lost in the primaries due to a lack of money and infrastructure to match the formidable machine that Mitt Romney had put together, and due to the misconception that he would not have been able to shake off the mistaken Grinch image that had been painted of him by his opponents.
    When Gingrich was thrown overboard, his policy positions went with him, and so did conservatism. So here we are today with another nice guy loser who hailed from the liberal wing of the party. We lost an election we should have won, we lost Senate Seats in a year we should have gained, and we lost House Seats in a year we should have made a net pick up.
    The only good news of the election is that the Tea Party House members will now have a greater percentage of the vote in a smaller GOP majority, thus making the Tea Party actually more powerful than it was previously. This is key, since the shift to the left in the Senate will be painfully obvious in about a month’s time.

    His reputation with the public was in the toilet and the DNC would have pulverized him. Look what they did with “squeaky clean” Romney.


  66. RIX
    66 | November 15, 2012 1:37 pm

    @ Speranza:
    The fact is that Abraham Lincoln or Reagan would have lost
    this election.
    The Dems have cobbled together a coalition that comes out
    in presidential years.


  67. Lily
    67 | November 15, 2012 1:41 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    bluliner10 wrote:

    Lily hits a homerun with the Operation Gothic Serpent reference.

    That would be the Blackhawk Down incident? That could have been it, but that is still derriliction of duty on Obama’s part. And that doesn’t justify or even really explain his insistance for two weeks that this was the result of an obscure YouTube video.

    Of course not…if he did this for that reason he put his political campaign ahead of United States interests and therefore was a dereliction of duty to cover his sorry ass if things went side-ways. In other words he didn’t care and was basically treasonous on the part of the president to care for himself only and not act in the best interests of the United States. He made sure nothing was done, not once, not twice but three times. He had plenty of time to think about it while all hell was breaking lose in real time as they watched for at least 7 hours…not 30 minutes but 7 hours. Help was sitting on *go* and they never got the order. Could have only come from the highest in command..the president.


  68. 68 | November 15, 2012 1:41 pm

    I know this sounds perhaps silly but what in the world stops Romney from running again in 2016? He’ll have four years to get his message out, and as the 2012 nominee, he should still have weight. I realize that we don’t usually let a nominee from one year run a second time, but I would point out that Nixon lost in 1960 and came back 8 years later to win the election.

    If I’m Romney, I basically start talking about how MY plan would have worked and how Obama’s plan is already failing – and I’d start pointing to the layoffs now taking place, the higher taxes coming your way in 2013 and the stock market.

    And I’ve noticed the gas prices, after falling significantly, are starting to sloooooowly creep back up in California.


  69. bluliner10
    69 | November 15, 2012 1:43 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    Whatever muddies the water. The video was meant for the public consumption, and as we have seen, the media continues to push that narrative. Hell, they were siding with the President featuring his response at the suggestion that Senator’s Graham and McCain were upset with Rice going on the news shows and pressing the video story. They did not happen to mention that Sen Graham sent a letter and a tweet suggesting that the real target of the Benghazi incident is the President, and they will get there.


  70. 70 | November 15, 2012 1:43 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    put him under oath

    That’ll never happen It’d be a violation of Separation of Powers. Congress can’t put the President under oath or compel him to testify, and there i sno criminal complaint here that could possibly compel cooperation. No, the truth is that the Obama Administration is going to get away with their stonewalling because of a completely prostrate mainstream media. If the MFM wanted to make an issue of it, this could be a big thing, but if the are complicit in th ecover-up there is little that we can do.


  71. 71 | November 15, 2012 1:43 pm

    Rodan – you might find it interesting that after you were talking about Saul Alinsky tactics yesterday, Mark Levin took to the airwaves last night and totally agreed with you – that we need to take the gloves and start using the Libturds’ tactics against them. And he most definitely made an excellent case for it.

    If you didn’t catch his show – his podcast is available free on iTunes.


  72. Storagemanager
    72 | November 15, 2012 1:47 pm

    In English, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) is calling its effort – launched Wednesday – to strike a blow to Hamas’ terrorist infrastructure “Pillar of Defense,” but in Hebrew the operation’s name has another, deeper biblical meaning. In Hebrew, the IDF named its operation “Amud Anan,” that is Pillar of Cloud, a clear reference to the flight of the Children of Israel from Egypt and how God protected them.

    In the Book of Exodus 13:21, as the Israelites flee Egypt and the oppressive Pharaoh, the scene is described this way:

    The Lord went before them in a pillar of cloud by day, to guide them along the way, and in a pillar of fire by night, to give them light, that they might travel day and night.

    The pillar of cloud and the pillar of fire remained with them throughout their journey. Meanwhile, a very angry Pharaoh deployed his chariots, horses and warriors to chase after the departing former slaves. As the Egyptian soldiers began to catch up with the Israelites, this is what happened, according to Exodus 14:19-20:

    The angel of God, who had been going ahead of the Israelite army, now moved and followed behind them; and the pillar of cloud shifted from in front of them and took up a place behind them and it came between the army of the Egyptians and the army of Israel. Thus there was a cloud with the darkness, and it cast a spell upon the night, so that the one could not come near the other all through the night.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/check-out-the-biblical-reference-behind-the-name-of-israels-military-operation-against-hamas/


  73. heysoos
    73 | November 15, 2012 1:48 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    @ Iron Fist:
    invite him to testify like the Clinton White Water scandal…the MSM is fickle…they are bottom line sharks that will turn on him…to do nothing is not an option


  74. Storagemanager
    74 | November 15, 2012 1:50 pm

    100 years of history may go away

    Hostess Brands CEO said Wednesday the company will liquidate unless striking workers return to the job by the end of the day on Thursday.

    “We simply do not have the financial resources to survive an ongoing national strike,” Greg Rayburn said in a statement.

    Workers are protesting a contract imposed by a bankruptcy court. The bakers union has called the contract “outrageous.”

    A liquidation would result in more than 18,000 workers losing their jobs.
    http://www.kwch.com/business/kwch-hostess-ceo-gives-striking-workers-thursday-deadline-20121114,0,2860295.story


  75. citizen_q
    75 | November 15, 2012 1:50 pm

    O/T Just another day in ooohma, sunshine, rainbows, unicorns, butterflies, and bludgening your 7 year old to death and burning the body for not being able to memorize portions of koran.

    Mother accused of murdering seven-year-old son for failing to learn the Koran made video confession days after

    A woman accused of murdering her son for failing to learn parts of the Koran by heart made a harrowing video confession which was shown to a jury today.

    Sara Ege, 32, allegedly beat seven-year-old Yaseen to death with a stick and then burned his body in an attempt to destroy the evidence of her brutality.

    Ege made an emotional confession to the police within days of Yaseen’s death at their home in Cardiff in July 2010.


  76. 76 | November 15, 2012 1:57 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    As a practical matter, you get on bite of the apple. We’ll have a much stronger bench in 2016. Who would you rather place our bets on, Romney again or Marco Rubio? Rubio probably wouldn’t hae won this year, either, but he might have. He’d have surely been a bigger draw to hispanics, and he’d get those Freepers you’ve talked about off their bench (if anything will; I can’t for the life of me see sitting it out this year).


  77. 77 | November 15, 2012 1:58 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    I’d rather they dropped a nuke on Terhan and called it “Pillar of Fire”…


  78. 78 | November 15, 2012 1:58 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Which is part of the point. It matters not who we put up, the mud will fly! We put up a boy scout, and before it was all over, he was painted as an evil sot who planned on pushing granny over the cliff. Sooner or later, we need to support candidates who represent something we actually want, irrespective of perceived electability.

    By the way, when is the last time the electability factor actually held true? Ronald Reagan by the bye was also labeled as someone who was not electable, a man with too much baggage, not smart enough, too old, too right wing, crazy, senile, evil, what have you. How’d he do?

    We can all grab statistics after the fact to support our positions, but look at who won and who lost. The Tea Party lost two candidates in the House, and they were both gerrymandered out of existence, by the GOP controlled party affiliations no less.

    I will give the Democrats this, they have not set their party purposefully at odds with the voting base of their own house. The Republican Party seems to have a death wish, and they are hell bent on blaming Conservatives for that electoral defeat. When the time came for somebody to stand up and defend Mitt Romney, who was it that we all heard. The GOP apparatchiks were all over the Sunday talk shows in early September already mailing in their obituaries, and it was the conservatives who were voicing their loud and boisterous support. Ancient history I guess, but now those same people who had conceded then are blaming us now. I am somewhat disgusted with the Republican Party. This defeat was well earned, not because the message was wrong, but because they refuse to deliver it and to fight for it. In that respect, Rodan has it right.


  79. Buckeye Abroad
    79 | November 15, 2012 2:00 pm

    Bath house Barry has the midas touch.

    Another Smartphone Component Maker Quits: Texas Instruments Fires 1,700 People


  80. Storagemanager
    80 | November 15, 2012 2:00 pm

    Legal Advisor Ahaz Ben Ari of the defense establishment submitted a request to the cabinet, on the instruction of Defense Minister Ehud Barak, to approve the callup of 30,000 reserve soldiers.

    The move may be in connection with an anticipated ground operation in Gaza.
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/254936


  81. heysoos
    81 | November 15, 2012 2:02 pm

    another bootlicker preening for brownie points…this is exactly what is wrong with this country, from the elected to the voters…apathy, and no interested in the truth when it’s inconvenient…

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-no-more-responsible-benghazi-bush-was-911-dem-says


  82. 82 | November 15, 2012 2:03 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    Hey, if they don’t like the contract, unemployment is an attractive option in the Obaam Administration. It isn’t like these kind of jobs are going begging for workers with unemployment north of 8% again…


  83. Storagemanager
    83 | November 15, 2012 2:04 pm

    I heard one blog say…Romney attacked Beghazi to make Obama look bad….crazy ass people out there..


  84. Storagemanager
    84 | November 15, 2012 2:06 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:
    I’d rather they dropped a nuke on Terhan and called it “Pillar of Fire”…

    lol


  85. Storagemanager
    85 | November 15, 2012 2:07 pm

    Arab countries must withhold oil from the US to force them to end support for Israel’s “aggression” in the Gaza Strip, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah said Thursday night according to Lebanon Now.

    “The US can, if it wants, to stop the aggression on Gaza by making a simple phone call,” Nasrallah said. “Arabs should exert pressure by decreasing the amount of oil exported, or by increasing the price of oil, thus, the economies of Western countries would be threatened and pressure would [force] the US and Israel to stop the aggression on Gaza.”

    Nasrallah touted his groups battle with the IDF in 2006, and hinted that Israel was changing its strategy based on lessons learned in Lebanon. “We notice that the enemy has benefited from its previous aggressions; it benefited from its 2006 attack on Lebanon,” he said. “The enemy announces a group of objectives from their aggression that do not match its real objectives, so that if they lose the battle they can say that they reached their goals.” http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=292080


  86. 86 | November 15, 2012 2:08 pm

    @ Buckeye Abroad:

    Unemployment is good for the economy!

    [/Pelosie Galore]


  87. heysoos
    87 | November 15, 2012 2:08 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:
    Hey, if they don’t like the contract, unemployment is an attractive option in the Obaam Administration. It isn’t like these kind of jobs are going begging for workers with unemployment north of 8% again…

    let em start their own bakery…see if they pay some monkey to mop the floor for $25hr


  88. heysoos
    88 | November 15, 2012 2:13 pm

    Twinkillos…
    made in Mexico


  89. 89 | November 15, 2012 2:15 pm

    @ Fritz Katz:

    Alinsky tactics work.


  90. 90 | November 15, 2012 2:16 pm

    @ heysoos:

    They’ll make them in China, with all the lovely food additives Chinese manufacturing is noted for. That’ll be just swell… :roll:


  91. Storagemanager
    91 | November 15, 2012 2:17 pm

    Can we hope for a stray bullet?

    Egyptian Leader Mohammad Morsi will visit Gaza tomorrow. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/


  92. 92 | November 15, 2012 2:18 pm

    @ Flyovercountry:

    It’s a mystery!


  93. 93 | November 15, 2012 2:18 pm

    @ Rodan:

    Dirty tactics work. You don’t have to tell the truth. Romney should have been running ads saying that in his second term Barack Hussein Obama would require Churches to perform gay marriages. Who knows? That might even be true…


  94. 94 | November 15, 2012 2:20 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    McCain’s friends!


  95. 95 | November 15, 2012 2:21 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I would have done it.


  96. lobo91
    96 | November 15, 2012 2:21 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    another bootlicker preening for brownie points…this is exactly what is wrong with this country, from the elected to the voters…apathy, and no interested in the truth when it’s inconvenient…

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-no-more-responsible-benghazi-bush-was-911-dem-says

    Apparently this asshat has a short memory, because I distinctly recall tons of people on the left blaming Bush for 9/11.


  97. lobo91
    97 | November 15, 2012 2:22 pm

    Storagemanager wrote:

    Can we hope for a stray bullet?

    Egyptian Leader Mohammad Morsi will visit Gaza tomorrow. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/

    More like a stray 2,000 lb bomb…


  98. 98 | November 15, 2012 2:23 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    I distinctly recall tons of people on the left blaming Bush for 9/11.

    When they weren’t blaming the Jews. IIRC, Van Jones blamed both.


  99. 99 | November 15, 2012 2:23 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Laser-guided. By accident, of course…


  100. Storagemanager
    100 | November 15, 2012 2:24 pm

    The Israel Air Force flew missions against dozens of targets in Gaza, Thursday evening, according to sources in the Hamas-controlled area.

    The attacks hit west of Gaza City. There were no immediate reports of casualties.
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/254937


  101. heysoos
    101 | November 15, 2012 2:25 pm

    my verdict regarding this election and the next….
    steal it back


  102. waldensianspirit
    102 | November 15, 2012 2:25 pm

    The Alinsky has a directionality to it. Won’t work in the direction of good


  103. 103 | November 15, 2012 2:27 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Well, I do like Rubio if he will run. I’m more worried It Came From New Jersey is going to through his fat ass into the ring and the media, wanting ITFNJ to be the nominee (because conservatives will once again stay home) will being Rubio bashing early.


  104. lobo91
    104 | November 15, 2012 2:27 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    The fact is that Abraham Lincoln or Reagan would have lost
    this election.
    The Dems have cobbled together a coalition that comes out
    in presidential years.

    I’ve said for at least 15 years now that that’s all the modern Democratic Party is. They have no central ideology. They’re just a coalition of various grievance groups, many of whom hold positions that are contrary to each other (for example, gays and blacks, or manufacturing workers and environmentalists).


  105. 105 | November 15, 2012 2:28 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Well, I do like Rubio if he will run. I’m more worried It Came From New Jersey is going to through his fat ass into the ring and the media, wanting ITFNJ to be the nominee (because conservatives will once again stay home) will being Rubio bashing early.

    I think Susana Martinez would be stronger. She’s a governor and a female. That said, I hope Conservatives work to defeat Chris Christie next year. If it means backing Cory Booker so be it.


  106. heysoos
    106 | November 15, 2012 2:29 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Well, I do like Rubio if he will run. I’m more worried It Came From New Jersey is going to through his fat ass into the ring and the media, wanting ITFNJ to be the nominee (because conservatives will once again stay home) will being Rubio bashing early.

    we need a wholesome country girl, Hispanic would be good too


  107. 107 | November 15, 2012 2:29 pm

    @ lobo91:

    They are also united in their hatred of Republicans and Conservatives. That is the glue that holds them together.


  108. 108 | November 15, 2012 2:30 pm

    @ heysoos:

    Susana Martinez.


  109. lobo91
    109 | November 15, 2012 2:31 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    I distinctly recall tons of people on the left blaming Bush for 9/11.

    When they weren’t blaming the Jews. IIRC, Van Jones blamed both.

    I wasn’t really talking about the troofers. I meant the people who siezed on things like the title of a briefing that said “Al Qaeda Wants to Attack America” or some such crap and insisted that Bush should have been able to determine from that that 19 Arabs were going to hijack 4 airliners on the morning of September 11th.


  110. 110 | November 15, 2012 2:31 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    If they bash Rubio, it is because they are racists. Call them on it.


  111. heysoos
    111 | November 15, 2012 2:34 pm

    Martinez yanked the sanctuary city status of Albuquerque…Hispanics down here are not real thrilled with illegals, considering their long history and the tradition of coming up from old Mexico and becoming an American…a source of deep pride….that’s why they are so patriotic…just as an aside


  112. lobo91
    112 | November 15, 2012 2:34 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:

    If they bash Rubio, it is because they are racists. Call them on it.

    I’m about at the point where I think we should just start calling anyone who runs as a Democrat an anti-American POS who wants to enslave your children.

    Screw subtlety.


  113. heysoos
    113 | November 15, 2012 2:34 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Susana Martinez.

    she’s my governor and I like her….surprise!


  114. buzzsawmonkey
    114 | November 15, 2012 2:35 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Romney should have been running ads saying that in his second term Barack Hussein Obama would require Churches to perform gay marriages. Who knows? That might even be true…

    Of course it’s true. That’s the reason the gay lobby is pushing for “marriage” instead of domestic partnership: the entire objective is to be able to sue churches and synagogues that do not wish to perform same-sex marriages on “equal protection” grounds. That’s why they’re already suing private businesses—florists, caterers, banquet halls, B&Bs—that have turned down same-sex marriage business.


  115. 115 | November 15, 2012 2:36 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    They will reply Rubio is a White Hispanic, hence not a real Hispanic. Funny, have they been to Spain? :lol:


  116. 116 | November 15, 2012 2:36 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Free Republic is starting to get a serious image problem. While I’m not a huge supporter of Ron Paul, the site would stage vicious, vicious attacks on Romney supporters, in 2008 McCain and Giuliani supporters, and frankly entertained far too many birther threads. They became very narrow minded and over and over again reiterated that Mormons were not Christians and they would not under any circumstances vote for Romney.

    The narrowmindedness of the site has not gotten better – it is still a great site for breaking news but I no longer comment there – just way way too mean spirited and while I completely understand people being upset that their candidate (which was either Gingrich or Bachmann)didn’t get the nod, you don’t screw up the country because you got a hamburger when you wanted a cheesesteak.


  117. 117 | November 15, 2012 2:36 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Amen brother!!!!!!!!!!1

    It’s time to take off the gloves!


  118. heysoos
    118 | November 15, 2012 2:37 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:
    If they bash Rubio, it is because they are racists. Call them on it.

    I’m about at the point where I think we should just start calling anyone who runs as a Democrat an anti-American POS who wants to enslave your children.
    Screw subtlety.

    donks endorse fratricide


  119. 119 | November 15, 2012 2:37 pm

    @ lobo91:

    They claim Gore would have magically stopped it!


  120. lobo91
    120 | November 15, 2012 2:38 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    That’s why they’re already suing private businesses—florists, caterers, banquet halls, B&Bs—that have turned down same-sex marriage business.

    I really don’t see how suits like that could be brought successfully against private businesses.

    If someone shows up at my door and I don’t want to serve them, I won’t, and no court is going to force me to do otherwise.


  121. lobo91
    121 | November 15, 2012 2:39 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:

    They will reply Rubio is a White Hispanic, hence not a real Hispanic. Funny, have they been to Spain?

    Susanna Martinez has never had an abortion, so they’ll savage her, too.


  122. 122 | November 15, 2012 2:40 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    And misspelling like that post are the reason no one should type on an iPhone.


  123. lobo91
    123 | November 15, 2012 2:41 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    They claim Gore would have magically stopped it!

    No, they claim that it never would have happened if Gore had been president.

    They completely ignore the fact that years of planning and preparation went into the attacks. It wasn’t something they dreamed up after Bush took office.


  124. 124 | November 15, 2012 2:42 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Yep – we’re seen where “subtlety” gets us. A kick in the ass.


  125. 125 | November 15, 2012 2:46 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    I’m about at the point where I think we should just start calling anyone who runs as a Democrat an anti-American POS who wants to enslave your children.
    Screw subtlety.

    I’m with you there. Question their patriotism? Not really. We know Democrats are unpatriotic. Witness Ted Kennedy’s collusion with the KGB against the Reagan Administration or Dick Durbin’s with al Qaeda against Bush.


  126. Storagemanager
    126 | November 15, 2012 2:47 pm

    Obviously caught up in his own silly yarn about meanie Senators and helpless U.N. Ambassadors, the President complained, “When they go after the U.N. ambassador apparently because they think she’s an easy target, then they’ve got a problem with me.”

    Imagine George Bush saying that people criticized John Bolton because he was an “easy target.” He wouldn’t.It’s absurd and chauvinistic for Obama to talk about the woman he thinks should be Secretary of State of the United States as if she needs the big strong man to come to her defense because a couple of Senators are criticizing her.

    Believe it or not, Rice isn’t the first potential Cabinet nominee to be opposed by members of Congress up on the Hill. Obama also left out the inconvenient detail that there is another senator who has Rice in the crosshairs: Sen. Kelly Ayotte. But perhaps a female Senator holding Rice accountable didn’t sound menacing enough in the era of the “War on Women.”

    But it gets much worse.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/11/15/president-obama-silly-sexist-defense-susan-rice/#ixzz2CK3VucgF


  127. buzzsawmonkey
    127 | November 15, 2012 2:48 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    I really don’t see how suits like that could be brought successfully against private businesses.

    If someone shows up at my door and I don’t want to serve them, I won’t, and no court is going to force me to do otherwise.

    Commerce clause, going back to the Heart of Atlanta Motel case back during the Civil Rights Movement.

    Back then, denial of public accommodations to black people was held to impact interstate commerce; a motel refusing to rent rooms to blacks placed a “chilling effect” on the freedom to travel, which is part of the First Amendment-protected right to freedom of association.

    So, a business reserving the right to refuse service to a same-sex couple, i.e., not providing floral or catering services, is behaving in a discriminatory manner and, by exercising its First Amendment rights, is “violating” the plaintiff’s First Amendment rights.

    Convoluted? Inverted, so to speak? You bet. But do you really believe there will not be judges who will buy this? The gay-rights movement has already gutted the First Amendment by pushing the concept of “hate speech,” i.e., the idea that certain speech may not be allowed and may even be suppressed by the government or a government-funded agency, e.g., a university, because it is so “harmful.” It has also pushed the bogus notion that not creating same-sex marriage is the same as the voiding of otherwise-valid marriages on the basis of race, which is what anti-miscegenation laws did.

    As I’ve said, the gay-rights movement exists to destroy the First Amendment, as to both free speech and freedom of religion. Same sex marriage and “hate speech” are how it is doing this.


  128. 128 | November 15, 2012 2:48 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Bill Clinotn could have stopped it if he’d been serious about terrorism, but the Clinotn Administration was a generally unserious affair.

    (Buzz should like that I worked affair into discussing the Clinton Administration :cool: )


  129. Storagemanager
    129 | November 15, 2012 2:49 pm

    The Israel Air Force attacked a vehicle occupied by gunmen that was travelling close to the home of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in the Shati refugee camp, east of Gaza City, Thursday evening, according to Gaza sources who talked to the Palestinian Authority’s Al-Quds television network.

    Other sources say the navy fire at a target near Haniyeh’s home.
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/254940


  130. 130 | November 15, 2012 2:50 pm

    New/Old thread


  131. lobo91
    131 | November 15, 2012 2:53 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Commerce clause, going back to the Heart of Atlanta Motel case back during the Civil Rights Movement.

    Back then, denial of public accommodations to black people was held to impact interstate commerce; a motel refusing to rent rooms to blacks placed a “chilling effect” on the freedom to travel, which is part of the First Amendment-protected right to freedom of association.

    I’m well aware of the history. My point is, not all businesses are considered “public accomodations”

    Public Accommodation Law & Legal Definition

    A place of “public accommodation” is defined as “an establishment either affecting interstate commerce or supported by state action, and falling into one of the following categories: (1) a lodging for transient guests located within a building with more than five rooms for rent; (2) a facility principally engaged in selling food for consumption on the premises, including such facilities located within retail establishments and gasoline stations; (3) any place of exhibition or entertainment; (4) any establishment located within an establishment falling into one of the first three categories, and which holds itself out as serving patrons of that establishment; or (5) any establishment that contains a covered establishment, and which holds itself out as serving patrons of that covered establishment. Bishop v. Henry Modell & Co., 2009 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 104830, 39-40 (S.D.N.Y. Nov. 9, 2009)


  132. 132 | November 15, 2012 2:55 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Bill Clinton helped al-Qaeda against the Serbs. Obama helped al-Qaeda against Qaddafi. See a pattern?


  133. livefreeor die
    133 | November 15, 2012 2:56 pm

    @ Storagemanager:
    War on Women my behind. So far I’ve learned from the Democrats this year that I can’t function without birth control funded by others or defend myself when criticized. Don’t get me started on the Julia crap…


  134. lobo91
    134 | November 15, 2012 2:57 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:

    Bill Clinton helped al-Qaeda against the Serbs. Obama helped al-Qaeda against Qaddafi. See a pattern?

    They’re Democrats?


  135. livefreeor die
    135 | November 15, 2012 2:58 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    I’m about at the point where I think we should just start calling anyone who runs as a Democrat an anti-American POS who wants to enslave your children.
    Screw subtlety.

    I’m with you there. Question their patriotism? Not really. We know Democrats are unpatriotic. Witness Ted Kennedy’s collusion with the KGB against the Reagan Administration or Dick Durbin’s with al Qaeda against Bush.

    Yup. We need to be direct and stop tiptoeing around what we mean, assuming the majority of the electorate will connect the dots. This election shows they won’t.


  136. 136 | November 15, 2012 2:58 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    I know this sounds perhaps silly but what in the world stops Romney from running again in 2016?

    No, it does not sound silly. I was thinking the same thing myself. Romney has enough money to buy himself another nomination or two.

    Does the name William Jennings Bryan ring a bell? He lost three times on the top of the ticket for the Dems.

    Heck, I bet there are a few Democratic hopefuls who would love to help Romney run again. Remember this was the guy that the Dems were telling us that we had to nominate to have any chance of winning.

    Romney could not bring home the base this time. How is he going to bring home the base next time?


  137. 137 | November 15, 2012 3:01 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    They’re Democrats?

    Hence unpatriotic…


  138. lobo91
    138 | November 15, 2012 3:02 pm

    @ CzechRebel:

    It would certainly be simple from an advertising standpoint:

    “Remember back in 2012 when I told you this was going to happen? Maybe you’ll listen to me this time.”


  139. buzzsawmonkey
    139 | November 15, 2012 3:02 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Yes. That definition can easily be stretched to include a banquet hall, catering establishment, or B&B. Perhaps not a florist—yet—but the idea is to throw out as many such suits as possible, get one idiot judge that buys it, and shop the precedent thereafter.

    If one claims that the free exercise of one’s religion demands that one get a same-sex marriage, and that a florist who buys flowers through interstate commerce and sells to general public is, by refusing to sell to the same-sex couple, denying them “equal protection of the law,” you’re there. I can imagine a judge in the Elena Kagen mode buying that in a minute.


  140. lobo91
    140 | November 15, 2012 3:03 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    They’re Democrats?

    Hence unpatriotic…

    I would have said America-hating POS, but close enough.


  141. 141 | November 15, 2012 3:08 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Yup!


  142. 142 | November 15, 2012 3:11 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:
    And misspelling like that post are the reason no one should type on an iPhone.

    You can use an iPhone to misspell? I have been counting weakening eyesight and early senility to do my misspelling for years. But, now there is modern technology that even does that for us. What will they think of next?


  143. 143 | November 15, 2012 3:15 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    If someone shows up at my door and I don’t want to serve them, I won’t, and no court is going to force me to do otherwise.

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Yes. That definition can easily be stretched to include a banquet hall, catering establishment, or B&B. Perhaps not a florist—yet—but the idea is to throw out as many such suits as possible, get one idiot judge that buys it, and shop the precedent thereafter.

    Wasn’t there a case recently, maybe a couple of years ago, where a lesbian couple sued a wedding planner/photographer for discrimination when they refused to accept their business?


  144. 144 | November 15, 2012 3:19 pm

    @ lobo91:
    I certainly cannot argue with you on that point. And, if those of who believe that Romney was the best candidate are right, we never have to worry about a Republican winning the White House ever again.


  145. 145 | November 15, 2012 3:21 pm

    @ PaladinPhil:
    Huh, googled “lesbian couple sues business” and these three stories showed up in the first two pages.
    Lesbian Couple May Sue Christian Baker Who Refused to Make Their Wedding Cake (Iowa)
    Lesbian Couple Sues Vermont’s Wildflower Inn for Discrimination (Vermont)

    Court: Christians can be ordered to violate beliefs (New Mexico, the one I was thinking of originally)

    There’s more out there as well.


  146. buzzsawmonkey
    146 | November 15, 2012 3:21 pm

    PaladinPhil wrote:

    Wasn’t there a case recently, maybe a couple of years ago, where a lesbian couple sued a wedding planner/photographer for discrimination when they refused to accept their business?

    Yes. It’s one of several such cases recently—and there will be more. As I’ve said, the idea is to keep mounting such cases until there is a win, and then to use that win as a precedent to expand its application.


  147. buzzsawmonkey
    147 | November 15, 2012 3:30 pm

    @ PaladinPhil:

    They all laughed when I sat down at the piano—i.e., people here have been pooh-poohing the notion that the gay lobby is using same-sex marriage to undercut First Amendment protections. They are wrong.

    As I noted yesterday, most folks here find it easy to comprehend that the Administration’s crazy deficit spending is a road to disaster. But constitutional rights—and the assault upon them by “human rights” advocates—are less tangible, so people shrug their shoulders and say, “what’s the big deal? let’s get away from social conservative issues.”

    Well, the social-conservative issues—or, rather, the steady delegitimization of them—in schools from kindergarten through college, in films and in newspaper op-eds—is one of the reasons that the fiscal conservative message continues to be a tough sell to the electorate.

    I am not arguing the same-sex marriage issue on “moral” grounds—at least not directly—and certainly not on “Biblical” grounds, though I could. I am arguing it as a matter of being a planned campaign to erode our foundational rights, while being disguised as a “fulfillment” of those rights.


  148. 148 | November 15, 2012 3:35 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Absolutely. And it is does not enjoy popular support – Washington was the first time it WON on the ballot, including a measure in California.

    Blacks and Hispanics are especially anti same/sex marriage. And frankly, non-urban males are not in favor, either – all of my son’s friends, in the all-important 18-34 age bracket, voted yes on Prop 8.


  149. lobo91
    149 | November 15, 2012 3:41 pm

    @ PaladinPhil:

    One reason I left New Mexico. The state is run by moonbats.

    The idea that a court can force a person to provide their labor to another person is abhorent to our Constitution.

    There used to be a name for that, up until 1865 or so…


  150. darkwords
    150 | November 15, 2012 3:43 pm

    @ 102 waldensianspirit: Anything can work in the direction of good. It just had to be created and built that way.


  151. 151 | November 15, 2012 3:49 pm

    @ PaladinPhil:

    Forcing Christians to violate the tenets of their religion is one of the key principles of the Obama Administration. First it is Catholics and birth control/abortion (and did you ever think the government would force a church to pay for abortions), next it is gay marriage, then it is taking the sacrement. We are on a very slippery slope. Obama may not be the anti-Christ, but he is very anti-Christian.


  152. lobo91
    152 | November 15, 2012 3:58 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ PaladinPhil:

    Forcing Christians to violate the tenets of their religion is one of the key principles of the Obama Administration. First it is Catholics and birth control/abortion (and did you ever think the government would force a church to pay for abortions), next it is gay marriage, then it is taking the sacrement. We are on a very slippery slope. Obama may not be the anti-Christ, but he is very anti-Christian.

    Forcing anyone to provide their labor against their will–whether it’s a photographer refusing to take pictures of a gay “wedding” or a doctor being forced to treat patients at a loss–is nothing more than slavery.

    That’s the bottom line.


  153. 96cid
    153 | November 15, 2012 4:02 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    Clinton and Reno focused on so called domestic terrorism. Witness the Justice Department’s Project Megiddo during the Clinton administration..


  154. 154 | November 15, 2012 4:08 pm

    @ 96cid:

    Yeah, that certainly worked out well, didn’t it? How many dead in Waco and Oklahoma City?:


  155. 96cid
    155 | November 15, 2012 4:14 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:
    This is what the Reno Justice Department spent a lot of time on to the detriment of vigilance for international terrorism.

    http://www.cesnur.org/testi/FBI_004.htm


  156. 96cid
    156 | November 15, 2012 4:16 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    This is what Reno and the Justice Department spent a lot of time and treasure on to the detriment of vigilance toward international terrorism.
    http://www.cesnur.org/testi/FBI_004.htm


  157. 96cid
    157 | November 15, 2012 4:19 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:
    Reno and the Justice Department spent a lot of time and treasure on Project Megiddo to the detriment of vigilance towards international terrorism.


  158. 96cid
    158 | November 15, 2012 4:21 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:


  159. 96cid
    159 | November 15, 2012 4:22 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:
    Research Project Megiddo and you’ll see what I’m referring to.


  160. 160 | November 15, 2012 7:35 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    @ Storagemanager:
    Hey, if they don’t like the contract, unemployment is an attractive option in the Obaam Administration. It isn’t like these kind of jobs are going begging for workers with unemployment north of 8% again…

    let em start their own bakery…see if they pay some monkey to mop the floor for $25hr

    I used to work at a commercial bakery.

    It is an extremely demanding business to run. Miscalculate on where/when to purchase ingredients, how much to make of which items, and the financial terms with the retail chains, and you lose your tail.

    The profit margins on food items these days aren’t that great, and it’s tough to make a go of it.


  161. 161 | November 15, 2012 7:37 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Bill Clinton helped al-Qaeda against the Serbs. Obama helped al-Qaeda against Qaddafi. See a pattern?

    Yes.

    And people are angry with me for talking about secession and/or emigration. Maybe I’m sick of my tax dollars going to support our TOTALITARIAN ENEMIES. Or for abortion.


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