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The progressive anti-Semitic projection syndrome

by Speranza ( 60 Comments › )
Filed under Israel, Leftist-Islamic Alliance, Palestinians at November 23rd, 2012 - 9:00 am

If you want to see  anti-Semitism  in a 1930′s genocidal version,  see the comments on the IDF spokesperson twitter site.

by Caroline Glick

I’ve been on the road for the past several days and out of the loop so to speak. I just got home last night.

I read a blog post by Jonathan Tobin from Commentary today where I discovered that the post-Zionist poster boy of the American Jewish left Peter Beinart is now accusing Israel’s non-Jewish supporters of being anti-Semites.

Beinart you see, thinks that an anti-Semite is someone who criticizes anti-Zionist (or post-Zionist, or fair-weathered Zionist) American Jews for hanging Israel out to dry.

So if a non-Jew criticizes, say Peter Beinart for spewing nonsense about how Israel’s rejection of Beinart’s positions on territorial surrender legitimizes anti-Israel sentiment, then that person is an anti-Semite.
Beinart, after all, criticizes Israel as a Jew so since he does it as a Jew, attacking him for making ridiculous accusations against Israel makes you an anti-Semite.
There is a wider context for Beinart’s position. Beinart has closely associated himself with J Street the pro-Palestinian lobbying group run by American Jews. During the last election cycle, J-Street targeted Israel’s staunchest supporters in Congress for defeat. Specifically it targeted Joe Walsh and Allen West, (both ran in gerrymandered districts), because they refused to support the establishment of another Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria, (to the side of the Palestinian state in Gaza which the Left likes to pretend doesn’t exist).
J-Street claimed that West and Walsh — among Israel’s firmest supporters on the Hill — were anti-Israel because they rejected the establishment of another Palestinian terror state in the historic and strategic heartland of the Jewish state.
Beinart’s attacks on Rupert Murdoch and others who criticize Jews who attack Israel have to be seen as a continuation of the J Street campaign against Israel’s supporters in Washington.

[.........]

He is saying that there is no difference between those who support Israel and decry its critics and those who oppose Israel and decry its supporters.
This post-modern moral equivalence is absolutely necessary. If you want to make a completely false argument sound reasonable, the first thing you have to do is erase all distinction between good and evil. (See the film clips in my last blog post.)
We need to be aware of what Beinart and his allies are doing. In the coming months and years, we should expect more and more of Israel’s supporters to be attacked as anti-Semites by leftist American Jews. The intention of people like Beinart and J Street is to demonize and discredit Israel’s supporters just as Israel itself is being demonized and discredited.
In the face of this new initiative it is imperative that we continue to point out the real distinctions.
[........]
Read the rest – The liberal anti-Semitic projection syndrome

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60 Responses to “The progressive anti-Semitic projection syndrome”
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  1. buzzsawmonkey
    1 | November 23, 2012 10:15 am

    Notice how the very same people who claim that all criticism of Obama is “racist,” who claim that all criticism of Susan Rice is “sexist,” refuse to acknowledge that any criticism of Israel is antisemitic.


  2. 2 | November 23, 2012 10:18 am

    Beinart you see, thinks that an anti-Semite is someone who criticizes anti-Zionist (or post-Zionist, or fair-weathered Zionist) American Jews for hanging Israel out to dry.

    That’s how this clown gets away with crap. If he gets criticized, he cries antisemitism!


  3. mawskrat
    3 | November 23, 2012 10:36 am

    Good Mornin All….been busy working on my Obunker.
    what’s great my wife finnaly understands the work
    I’ve been doing doing in the basement. showed her
    a video of the animals at black friday. asked her what
    she thinks would happen when it;s the last few loafs of
    bread at the stores


  4. 4 | November 23, 2012 10:50 am

    mawskrat wrote:

    Good Mornin All….been busy working on my Obunker.
    what’s great my wife finnaly understands the work
    I’ve been doing doing in the basement. showed her
    a video of the animals at black friday. asked her what
    she thinks would happen when it;s the last few loafs of
    bread at the stores

    yeah, that will be a chaotic nightmare. gangs and warlords. ugh


  5. lobo91
    5 | November 23, 2012 10:52 am

    @ mawskrat:

    Or when the state of California stops sending out those 6 figure pension checks.


  6. 6 | November 23, 2012 10:54 am

    So, any bets as to whether on not this will be a record setting day for gun sale background checks? Some of the big national and regional retailers got some sales on…


  7. lobo91
    7 | November 23, 2012 10:57 am

    @ Mike C.:

    This weekend’s gun show starts at 1 today. Should be interesting.


  8. 8 | November 23, 2012 11:05 am

    @ lobo91:

    I sure lost my enthusiasm for such things when I went to a show last year. Had to wade through too much junk and crap to find anything, and vendors were scattered at random, so it would take a lot of checking and note-taking to find the best deal on anything. I know you’re there trying to drum up business, so that’s different.


  9. 9 | November 23, 2012 11:06 am

    @ Mike C.:

    I would like to go to something like the SHOT show, perhaps, where all the big boy manufacturers strut their stuff…


  10. lobo91
    10 | November 23, 2012 11:07 am

    @ Mike C.:

    I don’t really have the chance to look around all that much, usually, especially when Leia’s there with me. I don’t like to leave her alone at the table for very long.


  11. lobo91
    11 | November 23, 2012 11:08 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Mike C.:

    I would like to go to something like the SHOT show, perhaps, where all the big boy manufacturers strut their stuff…

    The NRA Annual Meetings are another good place to see all the new stuff. Next year it’ll be in Houston in late April.


  12. CynicalConservative
    12 | November 23, 2012 11:13 am

    @ Mike C.:
    No bets, but likely. Guess I’ll spend the day re-loading again, definitely not leaving the house.

    /galt


  13. huckfunn
    13 | November 23, 2012 11:20 am

    lobo91 wrote:

    The NRA Annual Meetings are another good place to see all the new stuff. Next year it’ll be in Houston in late April.

    We need to start organizing a Blogmacracy Convention in Houston for the NRA Annual Meeting which will be in Houston May 2 thru 5 next year.


  14. 14 | November 23, 2012 11:22 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Mike C.:

    I would like to go to something like the SHOT show, perhaps, where all the big boy manufacturers strut their stuff…

    i went to that in 1996 in Dallas. amazing.


  15. 15 | November 23, 2012 11:23 am

    huckfunn wrote:

    We need to start organizing a Blogmacracy Convention in Houston for the NRA Annual Meeting which will be in Houston May 2 thru 5 next year.

    not a bad idea


  16. eaglesoars
    16 | November 23, 2012 11:24 am

    @ Kirly:

    Hey Kirly, I dropped in on the overnite threads to see what went down after I left. I saw your link for the Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings book. Thank you very much! I’ve ordered it -- I think the dead tree version is going to be easier to use than the e-reader version, so I’ll have to wait a few days.

    Thanks again!


  17. huckfunn
    17 | November 23, 2012 11:26 am

    CynicalConservative wrote:

    @ Mike C.:
    No bets, but likely. Guess I’ll spend the day re-loading again, definitely not leaving the house.

    /galt

    Not joining the merry mallers maulers? You could be missing out on some good deals. ///


  18. CynicalConservative
    18 | November 23, 2012 11:30 am

    @ huckfunn:
    I stopped participating in the annual commercial orgy 25 years ago, not going back ever.

    /galt


  19. huckfunn
    19 | November 23, 2012 11:32 am

    Kirly wrote:

    huckfunn wrote:

    We need to start organizing a Blogmacracy Convention in Houston for the NRA Annual Meeting which will be in Houston May 2 thru 5 next year.

    not a bad idea

    What I (or anyone else) needs to do is post a thread giving the details of the time and location of the NRA meeting. We could have interested bloogers contact the thread gods and those interested parties could exchange email addresses. We have several of our gang who live in the Houston area. We’ve already had an offer to set up some restaurant and bar locations. We need to start making motel reservations soon.


  20. heysoos
    20 | November 23, 2012 11:35 am

    @ huckfunn:
    I wonder if these same obsessed shoppers put as much rabid enthusiasm into attending school board meetings or volunteering to help care for the hungry and homeless…I think this frantic consumerism is in extreme poor taste…almost a fetish


  21. huckfunn
    21 | November 23, 2012 11:36 am

    CynicalConservative wrote:

    @ huckfunn:
    I stopped participating in the annual commercial orgy 25 years ago, not going back ever.

    /galt

    Same here. I just refuse to participate in that crap. I think the majority of people showing up for that hysteria are either dumb kids or the “free shiite” crowd who just sold us into the slavery of socialism.


  22. Speranza
    22 | November 23, 2012 11:37 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Notice how the very same people who claim that all criticism of Obama is “racist,” who claim that all criticism of Susan Rice is “sexist,” refuse to acknowledge that any criticism of Israel is antisemitic.

    Are you saying that they are hypocrites? Who woulda thunk it?


  23. Speranza
    23 | November 23, 2012 11:38 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Beinart you see, thinks that an anti-Semite is someone who criticizes anti-Zionist (or post-Zionist, or fair-weathered Zionist) American Jews for hanging Israel out to dry.

    That’s how this clown gets away with crap. If he gets criticized, he cries antisemitism!

    He is an example of what Israel Zangwill referred to as “the tremblng little Israelites” when Zangwill was referring to the Jews of Britain in the 19th century.


  24. Dolphin
    24 | November 23, 2012 11:51 am

    @ huckfunn:
    http://www.nraam.org/

    May 3-5 2013 @ George R. Brown Convention Center (which is downtown Houston). Downtown hotels are $$$. There are a few of us that live in the area that could give suggestions on outlining areas that would be more reasonable and in safe areas. Also Metro also offers park and rides for most conventions.


  25. Speranza
    25 | November 23, 2012 11:54 am

    Dolphin wrote:

    @ huckfunn:
    http://www.nraam.org/
    May 3-5 2013 @ George R. Brown Convention Center (which is downtown Houston). Downtown hotels are $$$. There are a few of us that live in the area that could give suggestions on outlining areas that would be more reasonable and in safe areas. Also Metro also offers park and rides for most conventions.

    Does Houston have a subway?


  26. 26 | November 23, 2012 11:55 am

    @ Speranza:

    Beinart is like Aloutte at LGF. He dreams of some Jewish-Islamic alliance against Christians. He’s really a deranged man who somehow is taken serious.


  27. Speranza
    27 | November 23, 2012 11:57 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Beinart is like Aloutte at LGF. He dreams of some Jewish-Islamic alliance against Christians. He’s really a deranged man who somehow is taken serious.

    He really is if he thinks that will ever happen.


  28. huckfunn
    28 | November 23, 2012 11:59 am

    Dolphin wrote:

    @ huckfunn:
    http://www.nraam.org/

    May 3-5 2013 @ George R. Brown Convention Center (which is downtown Houston). Downtown hotels are $$$. There are a few of us that live in the area that could give suggestions on outlining areas that would be more reasonable and in safe areas. Also Metro also offers park and rides for most conventions.

    Great idea. I’ll put an initial thread and see what kind of response we get. I can think of at least 5 of our mob in the Houston area who are interested and I think there would be more. I’ll put something up next week.


  29. huckfunn
    29 | November 23, 2012 12:01 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Does Houston have a subway?

    Nope. What it has is freeways (some that are up to 20 lanes wide) and buses. There is some light rail downtown. Total fustercluck.


  30. RIX
    31 | November 23, 2012 12:05 pm

    @ huckfunn:

    Not joining the merry mallers maulers? You could be missing out on some good deals. ///

    This is what I fear that America is devolving into.
    Obama & his media accomplices pit group against group
    and gin up the grievance mentality.


  31. lobo91
    32 | November 23, 2012 12:05 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Does Houston have a subway?

    Surely you jest.


  32. Dolphin
    33 | November 23, 2012 12:09 pm

    @ Speranza:
    No and very unreliable bus system. Park and ride buses leave from a large parking lot and buses are designated to the convention center and returns.


  33. 34 | November 23, 2012 12:09 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Does Houston have a subway?
    Surely you jest.

    New Yorker… nuff said… :razz:


  34. huckfunn
    35 | November 23, 2012 12:10 pm

    RIX wrote:

    This is what I fear that America is devolving into.

    We are there. Mindless, ill-mannered mobs living reality TV/YouTube lives. Everyone’s got their phones out taking vids of the mayhem. Polite society is g.o.n.e.


  35. Dolphin
    36 | November 23, 2012 12:11 pm

    @ huckfunn:
    Shoot me an email if you need any specific info.


  36. 37 | November 23, 2012 12:11 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    Polite society is g.o.n.e.

    Na.. It’s not gone, it just moved out to the countryside. :twisted:


  37. lobo91
    38 | November 23, 2012 12:14 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    Aside from the sandwich chain, the only subway I can think of in the west is the one in LA, which is a joke.


  38. heysoos
    39 | November 23, 2012 12:19 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    huckfunn wrote:
    Polite society is g.o.n.e.
    Na.. It’s not gone, it just moved out to the countryside.

    people are very friendly and polite here in ABQ, a major reason why I live here…standing in a long line at a party store with one cashier, a second cashier opens up and we all stand around trying to get the other guy to go up and pay…a very patient, happy little culture here…same with driving…lots of waving and hand signals to get across wide boulevards etc….honking is just unacceptable here, unless you doze off at a green light…and this is not Mayberry…ABQ is about 600k in the city alone


  39. 40 | November 23, 2012 12:20 pm

    OT- a sad day for us. We just lost one of the assorted cats. She had a kidney condition (polycistic kidney disease) that happens to Persians. Fortunately, she didn’t suffer with it for very long. Mrs MF noticed Clawdia wasn’t herself a few days ago, and took her to the emergency vet. She went to visit her today & saw she was suffering & decided it was her time.


  40. RIX
    41 | November 23, 2012 12:27 pm

    @ huckfunn:

    We are there. Mindless, ill-mannered mobs living reality TV/YouTube lives. Everyone’s got their phones out taking vids of the mayhem. Polite society is g.o.n.e.

    This is disturbing. This is the Age of Obama & civility
    is a casualty.


  41. huckfunn
    42 | November 23, 2012 12:29 pm

    Dolphin wrote:

    @ huckfunn:
    Shoot me an email if you need any specific info.

    10-4.


  42. 43 | November 23, 2012 12:30 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    @ Kirly:

    Hey Kirly, I dropped in on the overnite threads to see what went down after I left. I saw your link for the Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings book. Thank you very much! I’ve ordered it — I think the dead tree version is going to be easier to use than the e-reader version, so I’ll have to wait a few days.

    Thanks again!

    you’re very welcome! yes, i agree the dead tree version will be best. Lot’s of pictures of these old maps and such might be difficult to see on an e-reader. i’m glad you’re buying it. the book is exceptionally interesting. I hope you find it as fascinating as I do.


  43. huckfunn
    44 | November 23, 2012 12:31 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    huckfunn wrote:

    Polite society is g.o.n.e.

    Na.. It’s not gone, it just moved out to the countryside.

    That’s true. The people in my community are most decent people and we are not very diverse.


  44. 45 | November 23, 2012 12:35 pm

    @ doriangrey:
    dorian, i left this comment on the previous thread for you…repeated here for your convenience:

    This link is for Dorian and others who were discussing ancient civilizations last night. It’s called Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings — Piri Reis wasn’t the only one. I own this book — it’s a very interesting study of a number of ancient maps. It’s absolutely fascinating showing that humans had knowledge of the planet long before modern times — such as that the earth was a sphere and the ice-free coast of Antarctica. As you all likely know by now, I’m a Bible-believing Christian. Nothing theorized in Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings contradicts these beliefs — unlike ancient aliens (I suggest investigating the credibility of those delivering that message and attempting to independently verify anything they say — as I would of anything).

    http://www.amazon.com/Maps-Ancient-Sea-Kings-Civilization/dp/0932813429


  45. 46 | November 23, 2012 12:37 pm

    mfhorn wrote:

    OT- a sad day for us. We just lost one of the assorted cats. She had a kidney condition (polycistic kidney disease) that happens to Persians. Fortunately, she didn’t suffer with it for very long. Mrs MF noticed Clawdia wasn’t herself a few days ago, and took her to the emergency vet. She went to visit her today & saw she was suffering & decided it was her time.

    aw. that’s sad!

    cute name you gave her though, clawdia. i visited friends last night who named their cat Pawlina.


  46. huckfunn
    47 | November 23, 2012 12:41 pm

    RIX wrote:

    This is disturbing. This is the Age of Obama & civility
    is a casualty.

    Exactly how Obama intended it. He himself is crass, disdainful and uncivil. He and Bob Beckhole are the poster boys for what a good democrat should be.


  47. RIX
    48 | November 23, 2012 12:45 pm

    @ huckfunn:

    Exactly how Obama intended it. He himself is crass, disdainful and uncivil. He and Bob Beckhole are the poster boys for what a good democrat should be.

    True, they are dishonest & appeal to the most base emotions.
    Watching the Five, it is obvious that they disdain Beckel.


  48. 49 | November 23, 2012 12:47 pm

    @ RIX:
    ugh, beckel is the most vile thing on FNC.


  49. RIX
    50 | November 23, 2012 1:01 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    @ RIX:

    ugh, beckel is the most vile thing on FNC.

    Yup.


  50. 51 | November 23, 2012 1:43 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    As you all likely know by now, I’m a Bible-believing Christian. Nothing theorized in Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings contradicts these beliefs — unlike ancient aliens (I suggest investigating the credibility of those delivering that message and attempting to independently verify anything they say — as I would of anything).

    Thank you Kirly, like you I am a Bible Believing Christian. For me, even the ancient alien stuff does not contradict what the Bible teaches. But yes, I 100 percent agree, always approach any of the ancient alien stuff with the utmost of skepticism.

    The Bible does teach us that ancient aliens came to earth. It just does it in religious terms. The Universe is an unbelievably large place, and I for one simply cannot believe that God only created life on Earth, or that the life he created here on earth was the first intelligent life he created.

    In my mind, the Bible is the story of OUR, which is to say humanity’s relationship with God. Not the inhabitants of any other world, save for those passages where it appears that those inhabitants are interacting with us.

    As an example, all of the Angels are by their very definition ancient aliens. They are not beings created on planet Earth, they posses a knowledge far more advanced then us. They have a knowledge of God that we do not.

    From the account in Genesis where the “Son’s of God” come to earth and produce offspring of men that are called the Nephilim to Ezekiel’s flying saucer the Bible is full of such “Ancient Alien” accounts.

    Accepting that these accounts are in fact depictions of encounters with ancient aliens does not alter or change the basic fundamental teachings of the Bible. Like I said, the Bible is the story of OUR relationship with God, not that of any ancient aliens relationship with God.

    Furthermore, what we also know from the Bible is that the evidence suggests that some, perhaps 1/3rd of those ancient aliens at some point in time made the conscience decision to have a hostile relationship with god.

    The Universe as we understand it today is around 13 billion years old, Earth is only a few billion years old. If God treated the entire rest of the Universe the way he did earth, then the Universe is literally chock full of life, and most of it is probably a whole lot older than us.

    I find this easy to accept because of how life is here on earth, it clings and thrives virtually everywhere here. That God would have created the entire Universe this way only makes sense to me. It’s kind of like an obvious no brainer.

    Still even believing as I do, I am always skeptical of the motives of those who promote ancient aliens theories. Just as an example, I find String Theory and M-Theory absolutely fascinating, but at the end of the day I also recognize that both theories while they probably contain mostly factual description of the creation of the Universe, at the end of the day, they amount to little more than the Turtle Theory.

    The Multiverse is a Turtle Theory, no if’s and’s or but’s about it. (It’s no use Professor, it’s Turtles all the way down) The basic fundamental laws of Physics demand certain things. One of those things that they demand is something called causality. Causality for example demands that a body at rest remain at rest unless acted on by an outside force, that a body in motion remain in motion unless acted on by an outside force.

    When this basic law of physics is taken into account the notion that the Universe was created by a previous Universe which in turn was created by a previous Universe which in turn was created by a previous Universe falls apart. In other words, “It’s no use Professor, it’s Turtles all the way down” simply doesn’t work.

    Which of course returns us to the Creator. If indeed the law that a body at rest remain at rest unless acted on by an outside force is true, and all the evidence suggests that it is, then the Universe had to have been acted on by an outside force in order to come into existence.

    Sorry for the long extended rant, but this is a subject that I find utterly fascinating and I tend to get excited about it rather easily. I also am profoundly saddened and dismayed that science in the last 70 years or so has been transformed into a religion by individuals who have invested so much of themselves into either what they have been taught or their own theories that they refuse to consider that they might be wrong.

    Science was and is suppose to be a search for the truth irrespective of where that truth leads. It is not suppose to be a personal fiefdom or a priesthood of special enlightenment. It’s highest precept is that your results must always be replicable by anyone any where at any time.

    /Rant off… :oops:


  51. buzzsawmonkey
    52 | November 23, 2012 1:45 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    I for one simply cannot believe that God only created life on Earth, or that the life he created here on earth was the first intelligent life he created.

    There’s intelligent life on Earth?


  52. 53 | November 23, 2012 1:50 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    I for one simply cannot believe that God only created life on Earth, or that the life he created here on earth was the first intelligent life he created.
    There’s intelligent life on Earth?

    <——- Points mirror at buzz…. :twisted:


  53. 54 | November 23, 2012 1:55 pm

    Man… I think I just pulled a Lily and killed this thread… :sad: :twisted:


  54. 55 | November 23, 2012 2:28 pm

    @ doriangrey:
    It’s just that those three guys on TV who are always on the ancient aliens shows always conclude something like “so, there MUST have been some OTHER ancient alien civilization doing” whatever as if there is NO possibility of anything else so when i read things here (not your quote) about the ancient alien theory being “verified”, i just have to laugh and think, yeah, show me the spaceship and the bodies and the tech.

    I don’t dispute any of the stories in the Bible -- in fact, since Adam walked and talked with G-d Himself in the Garden, I contend that Adam was the most knowledgeable human being ever in existance and he shared that knowledge with his many children and descendants so ancient man probably knew a great deal more than we modern people generaly give him credit for being aware of. I see what you did there … angels are alien. indeed they are but they are supernatural beings, not just the population come to visit from some neighboring star system and I don’t believe they needed a space ship to travel.

    regarding life on other planets, i don’t believe that it is necessary for me to know about that in order to ensure my own salvation or to live my life here on earth so I just don’t generally worry about it and, like most things, i just say i’ll believe it when i see it (and yes i know there is a generally perceived contradiction between my scientific nature and my Christian faith but i’m ok with that). I just try to fit what i see with what The Bible says rather than the other way around like many people (not saying that’s what you do).

    did you follow the link to Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings?? That was the primary point of my comment.

    oh, i’ve seen your comments many times about ruins off the coasts. very interesting indeed. i’ve read about this on other blogs too. astounding that they are not being actively studied by thousands.


  55. 56 | November 23, 2012 3:37 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    indeed they are but they are supernatural beings, not just the population come to visit from some neighboring star system and I don’t believe they needed a space ship to travel.

    Mostly we agree, this being one place we do not. I do not believe in magic of any kind, form or fashion. I do not believe that God used anything even remotely resembling magic to create the Universe. Nor do I believe that Angels or Demons are a special class of “Spiritual” being.

    That they may well be beings that inhabit a different dimensional plain than us is something I am more than willing to entertain, but just as our dimensional plain of reference has physical laws, so likewise does theirs.

    Their is nothing mystical or magical about the manipulation of the physical laws that govern the dimensional plain one inhabits, that is pure technological application of scientific knowledge.

    I do not believe that God has walled himself off from his creation and that any civilization that advances technologically enough will eventually reach a point where they are forced to confront the indisputable reality of God’s existence.

    The Prophet Issiah tells us that Lucifer made the intentional decision that he was going to become greater than God and that he would replace God.

    I believe that this refers to an entire (ancient alien) civilization rather than a single individual, which reached the technological level that forced them to confront the reality of God’s existence. And that at some point after that intellectual confrontation they also made the intentional premeditated decision to attempt to overthrow God.

    I believe that they are not the only ancient alien civilization to have reached such a technological level and consequently were forced to confront God’s existence. But that the other ancient alien civilizations were able to do so without the jealousy or arrogance that would drive them to attempt to overthrow God.

    Like I said, I utterly and completely reject any notion or premises that sidestep’s or attempts to evade, elude or otherwise escape the laws of physics. I believe that everything God did within the boundaries of our Universe was accomplished through a 100 percent complete knowledge and understanding of the laws of physics. No magic what-so-ever.

    Moreover I seriously doubt that his existence outside the boundaries of our Universe is the by product of anything remotely resembling magic either. Everything God does, he does by way of his unparallelled knowledge, not through mysticism or magic. This is a theme repeated over and over throughout the scriptures themselves.

    As to the various worldwide submerged ruins, some of the reason for their not being studied more are both legitimate and understandable. After all they are many miles out to sea and under anywhere from 70 to 300 feet of water. Not exactly the easiest places on earth to conduct an archeological investigation.

    The other reason seems to be the rather profound unwillingness to investigate anything that could possibly topple the reputations of anyone or challenge the accepted narrative that has already been constructed.


  56. 57 | November 23, 2012 3:42 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    Oh and yes, I did follow your link,looks like a very interesting read, though out of my financial reach at the moment.


  57. 58 | November 23, 2012 3:48 pm

    @ doriangrey:
    i think we do disagree a bit but far less than it might seem. but, please be clear that i did not say nor intend to imply magic. we are mortal human beings and cannot understand the mind of God nor have knowledge of the entirety of His creation or how He created. God, having created everything and having existed prior to everything He created, is not bound by time or physcial law or anything of it. how could He be?

    doriangrey wrote:

    The other reason seems to be the rather profound unwillingness to investigate anything that could possibly topple the reputations of anyone or challenge the accepted narrative that has already been constructed.

    on this we definitely agree.


  58. 59 | November 23, 2012 3:49 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    @ doriangrey:

    Oh and yes, I did follow your link,looks like a very interesting read, though out of my financial reach at the moment.

    maybe someone could gift it to you. :-)


  59. 60 | November 23, 2012 4:01 pm

    Kirly wrote:

    God, having created everything and having existed prior to everything He created, is not bound by time or physcial law or anything of it. how could He be?

    Which is precisely why I predicated my statement with “Within the boundaries of our Universe”… :grin: I fully accept and acknowledge that God is far far greater than the boundaries of our Universe, and that I cannot fathom what the laws of the place where he dwells are, but I am equally certain that in some sense they do exist.


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