Two critiques of the execrable Oliver Stone revisionist history program now airing on Showtime. The sad thing is that Stone’s revisionism is taught every day in college history and political science courses. Henry Wallace (a one time U.S. Vice President under FDR) was one of the worst dupes in American history. However he later repudiated his pro Soviet views.
by Clifford D. May
In the 1930s, quite a few people failed to recognize the threat posed by Nazi ideology. In their eyes, Hitler was simply restoring Germany’s wounded pride and rebuilding an economy battered by World War I and the harsh treaty that ended the conflict. Surely, Hitler and the German people preferred compromise to conflict, peace to war. This view turned out to be wrong, of course, and tens of millions of people were massacred as a result.
In the wake of World War II, quite a few people failed to recognize the threat posed by Communist ideology. In their eyes, Marxist/Leninist societies were emancipating workers from capitalism. This view turned out to be wrong as well, and in lands as diverse as the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, and Cambodia, tens of millions of people were massacred as a result. Today, of course, we see the world more clearly, don’t we? Well, some do, some don’t.
Ronald Radosh was born in 1937 in New York City and raised in a Communist household. In his youth, he planned to become a leader of the American Communist movement. But he became a historian — [........] Most recently he has written a critique in The Weekly Standard of Oliver Stone’s Untold History of the United States, which premiered this week on Showtime, a cable network owned by CBS. Radosh makes clear that this series, in fact, reveals no “untold history” — it merely reheats and rehashes the party line pushed by the Soviets and their fellow travelers during the Cold War, a line that Stone swallowed long ago and has since been regurgitating.
Stone argues, as Radosh puts it, that “the Soviet Union’s leader in the 1930s and ’40s, Joseph Stalin, has ‘been vilified pretty thoroughly by history,’ so what is needed is a program allowing viewers to walk in both his and Hitler’s shoes ‘to understand their point of view.’”
Stone also alleges that “after World War II the United States moved ‘to the dark side,’ so that by the time the country was engaged in the Vietnam war, ‘We were not on the wrong side. We were the wrong side.’”
Radosh points out not only the factual errors littered throughout Stone’s series but also the conspicuous omissions. For example:
Viewers are told that World War II ended with the world sharing the hopes and dreams of progressives everywhere, led by Stalin, whose desire for continued Allied unity and peace was rebuffed by Winston Churchill and rejected by President Roosevelt’s accidental successor, Harry Truman. The viewer is never told of Soviet goals or practices, like the brutal occupation of Eastern Europe by the Red Army and the overthrow of its governments and installation of Soviet puppet regimes, except when the narrative justifies this as necessary for Soviet security.
Stone makes a hero of Vice President Henry Wallace, who, Radosh notes, in 1944 “traveled to 22 cities in Soviet Siberia” and “described the slave labor colony of Magadan, which the Soviet secret police had transformed into a Potemkin village staffed by actors and NKVD personnel, as a ‘combination TVA and Hudson’s Bay Company.’”
Later that same year, Roosevelt bumped Wallace from the No. 2 spot on the Democratic ticket, replacing him with Truman. Wallace’s consolation prize was secretary of commerce, but President Truman fired him in 1946. The cause of Wallace’s firing was call for the U.S. to recognize Soviet domination of Eastern Europe; he later “opposed the creation of NATO, advocated abandoning Berlin in response to the Soviet blockade, denounced the Marshall Plan for European reconstruction as ‘the martial plan,’ and justified the 1948 Communist coup in Czechoslovakia as a measure to thwart a plot by fascist forces.”
Wallace went on to create the Progressive Party, which, as Radosh notes, was essentially a Communist Party front. [........]
Coincidentally, this exercise in propaganda is hitting the small screens just as Anne Applebaum’s Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe, 1944–1956, is appearing in bookstores. Following up on her 2003 Pulitzer Prize–winning volume on the Soviet prison system, Gulag: A History, Applebaum draws on recently opened archives and interviews with survivors of Communist oppression. She “eloquently illuminates the methods by which Stalin’s state imprisoned half the European continent,” as historian Jennifer Siegel phrases it in one of many favorable reviews.
Will more people be educated by Applebaum or misinformed by Stone? The answer is obvious. Does it matter? In an age of moral equivalence, how much damage can be done by yet another generous serving? So what if more Americans — especially those who call themselves “progressives” — come to believe that old Uncle Joe Stalin got a raw deal, and Harry Truman was a “war criminal”?
I think it does matter. Not only because post-Soviet Russia remains conspicuously unfree, but, more important, because those persuaded that the 20th-century fight against totalitarianism was not worth the candle are likely to conclude that defending America and the West is not necessary now — a time when totalitarianism is again on the march, this time seeking not to establish a dictatorship of the proletariat or rule by a master race, but domination by religious supremacists.
It is no exaggeration to describe those who embrace the ideology of jihadism as neo-Stalinists. They, too, insist on infusing their ideology — which, in this case, is their theology as well — into every aspect of life. They, too, attack not just those who oppose them but also those who merely refuse to fully submit to their authority. Their victims include Jews, Christians, Baha’is, Buddhists, Hindus, and, not least, Muslims — most recently those whose ancient mosques and shrines have been destroyed in Libya and Mali.
[.........]
Read the rest – Oliver Stone’s Party Line
by Ron Radosh
Oliver Stone and his co-author Peter Kuznick are not going to be happy this week. After making scores of media appearances in which he heralded the supposedly great reception for his new TV series and accompanying book, Oliver Stone’s Untold History of the United States, which airs each week for 10 episodes on the CBS-owned network Showtime, Stone is finally getting the negative response he feared.
First, Stone was hit hard by Michael Moynihan at Newsweek/The Daily Beast. Declaring Stone and Kuznick’s film “junk history,” Moynihan called Stone’s work “swivel-eyed, ideological history,” based on “dubious quotes and sources,” a veritable “marvel of historical illiteracy.” Coming on the heels of my own debunking of Stone, “A Story Told Before: Oliver Stone’s Recycled History of the United States,” Stone and Kuznick received two substantive critiques in one week.Stone, of course, completely ignored my own substantive article, alluding to it without naming me as an example of “a few far-right diatribes” that do not warrant response. Stone bragged that “the majority of reviews and articles have been positive,” until that is – the piece by Moynihan that he had to answer since it appeared in what he considers a mainstream media venue. Since the original author has the last word, Moynihan hit Stone hard in his own answer, that appears after Stone’s response as an update. Moynihan easily further demolishes Stone and Kuznick, concluding after presenting more evidence that their work “is activism masquerading as history.”
This Sunday, however, Stone and Kuznick will be even more upset. The New York Times Magazine features a story by editor Andrew Goldman, “Oliver Stone Rewrites History-Again.” Goldman’s story, which summarizes Stone’s theory behind the TV series and has many vignettes based on his own interview with the director, notes among other things that Stone never really took back his incendiary comment that there is “Jewish domination of the media” and that Israel’s “powerful lobby in Washington” controls U.S. foreign policy. The apology he supposedly made to the Anti-Defamation League was forced on him to avoid cancellation of “Untold History,” and Stone now told Goldman that he should not have used the word “Jewish,” but that Israel has “seeming control over American foreign policy” and that AIPAC has “undue influence.” He accuses them of “militating for the war in Iraq,” completely ignoring that in fact, Israel did not favor the war, considering Iran its major enemy, and that AIPAC in particular never lobbied on its behalf. Each time Stone explains himself, he further puts his foot in his mouth.
When Goldman eventually gets to the new Showtime series, readers learn that Stone’s accolades come mainly when he presents his film to sympathetic viewers from the far left Nation magazine, as in a forum held in New York after the annual New York Film Festival. Referring to the magazine as “the left’s beloved 147 year-old weekly,” Goldman quotes its editor and publisher Katrina vanden Heuvel, as saying that Stone’s film “is what we try to do at The Nation,” which if anything, is more of a giveaway about its reliability than she imagines. That she sees the film as challenging “the orthodoxy” and the “conformity of our history” is a statement that should, if anything, be very embarrassing to those who think she has any credibility.
Indeed, Goldman goes on to point out that to Stone and Kuznick, “Stalin…still comes off as heroic, as an honest negotiator who, following F.D.R.’s death, was faced at every turn with Truman’s diplomatic perfidy.” Truman is to Stone and Kuznick, Goldman puts it, the “black hat” while the “white hats” belong to F.D.R., John F. Kennedy and most of all, “the man who inspired the whole project: Henry Wallace.”
[........]
What will really irk Stone and Kuznick, however, is that Goldman turns to me as an example of the sharp criticism Stone gets from those who know something about history. He writes the following:
While to his fans Stone’s alternate histories are provocative, his detractors see them as grossly irresponsible cherry-picking. The conservative historian and CUNY emeritus professor Ronald Radosh said he found himself wanting to do harm to his television while watching the first four episodes, which he reviewed for the right-wing Weekly Standard. Radosh had been blogging skeptically about the Stone project since its announcement in 2010, but now that he’d actually seen it, he said, it was the historian rather than the conservative in him who was most offended. “Historians can have different interpretations, but based on evidence,” he said. “What these other guys do is manipulate evidence and ignore evidence that does not fit their predetermined thesis, and that’s why they’re wrong.” According to Radosh, Stone and Kuznick’s take on the United States’ role in the cold war mirrors the argument in “We Can Be Friends,” a book published in 1952 by Carl Marzani, who was convicted of concealing his affiliation to the Communist Party when he joined the O.S.S., the precursor to the C.I.A. “This Stone-Kuznick film could have been put out in 1955 as Soviet propaganda,” Radosh said. “They use all the old stuff.”
[.........]
There is much I said to Goldman he left out, obviously because of space concerns from his editors at the magazine. I recommended to him in particular two books on the dropping of the A-Bomb that answer in detail the rehashed revisionist view Stone and Kuznick argue as if nothing has appeared to answer them since Gar Alperovitz’s first statement of the “atomic diplomacy” theory in the 1960’s. I told Goldman to consult Wilson D. Miscamble’s new book The Most Controversial Decision:Truman, the Atomic Bombs, and the Defeat of Japan, and Robert James Maddox’s earlier collection, Hiroshima in History: The Myths of Revisionism.
If he did, there is no indication of it in the article. Both of these books would present chapter and verse on the kind of real evidence that Stone and Kuznick completely ignore. The evidence shows, for example – contrary to the assertion made in the film series – that dropping of the A-Bombs, as horrible as it was, saved not only thousands of American lives that would have been lost, but more Japanese lives than were lost as a result of the A-bombs being dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They also show that contrary to the film’s argument, the Japanese government was not ready to surrender and end the war, until after both bombs were used.
Finally, I must note that as pleased as I am that Goldman went to me to counter Stone, and then to Wilentz, he colored (or his editors did) his account by referring to The Weekly Standard as a “right-wing” publication. One could more accurately refer to it as a conservative magazine. The term used is one of opprobrium, meant obviously by the editors of the Times to undercut the possibility that anyone reading it could learn the truth in its pages. [.........]
Goldman ends his article by referring to Stone and Kuznick’s appearance at a forum at the 92nd Street Y in New York City, where Kuznick again bragged about the “glowing” reviews they were getting and actually said that “nobody’s challenging anything we’re saying.” Stone gestured and said, “Well, it’s early.”
[........]
Read the rest - This weekend, Oliver Stone Will Not be a Happy Man; Now The New York Times Takes Him On!
Tags: Cillford D. May, Henry Wallace, Joseph Stalin, Oliver Stone, Ron Radosh
The Left loves Stalin.
I saw this in the Scheduling Guide yesterday as a suggestion for something I might like. The minute I saw Oliver Stone in the credits I realized it would be garbage, advancing an anti-American theory. This is from the same network that took over the Ronald Reagan movie after CBS had to push it from their prime time line up when the natives took up the pitchforks and surrounded the network.
I’m thinking it will have probably less viewership than “Game Change” was on HBO, but will win a shitload of Emmys (just like Game Change did because it vilified Sarah Palin).
There’s a difference?
OK, so Ollie is basically just a communist anti-semite. Nothing to see here.
Communists never quit.
Howard Zinn educated obots will love the movie.
Prebanned wrote:
Tyrants never sleep.
Their paranoia keeps them awake…
Strange things in the air here today …
http://www.theblogmocracy.com/2012/11/26/pravda-bye-bye-miss-american-pie/#comment-1123617
i’m not sure if I have ever seen an Oliver Stone movie. He has such a bad reputation for inaccuracy I usually lose interest when i see his name associated with anything. maybe all of his work should be decimaled into the Alternative Universe section of the SYFY book stack.
Calo wrote:
Umm, sorry but the mods should ban that one. His rant was vicious and completely insane. I don’t mind people disagreeing, but cowardly little scumbags signing up just to go off on their schizo tangent on a dead thread need banned.
@ 8 Calo: Oh My!!!! that is actually humorous to read.
@ Calo:
LMAO!
It SIPS on your SOUL!!!
OHHHH NOOOOOO!!!!
//
Methamphetamine.
@ Bumr50:
Breaking Bad.
@ Mars:
Awwwwww.
Can’t we keep him?
Why in the world anyone who knows anything about history want to take a walk in Hitlers and Stalins shoes?? Those two evil men! And why in the world would someone want to alter the history of these two evil men??? Stalin as a good guy?????
Dear me! The world has truly gone nuts!!!!! And yes this piece of trash that Stone is putting out will get more looks than the books that are being put out about the horrors of Stalin and what it was like living in the Soviet Union. Good grief! Why in the world would Stone want to put on a “historical” hat (truly he isn’t a historian} and rewrite about Stalin and Hitler???? The world has gone mad. I can only hope true historians really hit him with a two-by-four over this trash he is putting out.
Red Dawn should have been making a statement about Hilter driven radical muslims.
Bumr50 wrote:
Nope we already have a stray with a split personality. A possibly drug addled schizo is not a good addition. Plus it’s already shit all over a perfectly good thread. Who’s going to clean that up?
Lily wrote:
The American communists have been trying to redeem Stalin since day one.
@ Lily:
@ darkwords:
@ lobo91:
@ Mars:
@ Carolina Girl:
@ Bumr50:
If Hitler had never turned on Stalin, the Left would be praising him a great Socialist leader who stood up to evil Capitalist Imperialists and ended the Zionist threat.
@ Mars:
They are now trying to redeem Hitler. Many on the Left are admitting, he was one of them.
Rodan wrote:
And yet they keep trying to put Mussolini on the right, even though all of his policies match up with the dem party platform.
@ Mars:
Soulstraw is bye bye.
@ Mars:
Mussolini was very popular with the Hollywood and Jet set crowds back in the 20′s and 30′s.
Calo wrote:
GOOD HEAVENS! I see we have rational obama voter posting/NOT!
Of course rational and obama voter don’t go well in the same sentence.
Remember I warned you about obama voters.
@ Calo:
WOW! Had read most of the comments earlier today and then got sidetracked with that crazy thing called work -- lol.
Don’t remember that poster from any previous posts. Maybe it is another persona of ferb.
Again, just WOW!
Rodan wrote:
Outstanding.
Rodan wrote:
Let’s not forget he was also quite popular with FDR.
@ Dolphin:
@ Lily:
He’s gone.
Mars wrote:
Oh no keep it there!!! That is how an obama voter comes across! Really and in real life too. He misses the point that it was a Pravada piece ….now that I find amusing.
@ Rodan:
Oh I’m sure…but good grief..trying to make the murderous Stalin into a *good guy* is a bit much. *GAG*
Lily wrote:
Really? I didn’t see in it’s ravings that it even noticed the article.
GLad it’s gone.
@Rodan
Don’t forget Mussolini was also highly regarded by FDR too.
@ Mars:
He needs to be struck with a Clue-by-Four of Truth™, in other words.
@ Mars:
@ Lily:
Here is a tribute to Il Duce. Notice the Socialist style propaganda.
Rodan wrote:
Yep just like Stone says in the piece…”Let’s take a walk in Hitler and Stalin’s shoes” HELL NO!!! They were sheer evil…..
Lily wrote:
One of the biggest problems with revisionist history is that, all too often, it is turned into “Hate Whitey” history, or “The West Is Bad” history. One cannot take modern day sensibilities and apply them all over the past. One has to study history in order to learn from mistakes.
@ Rodan:
He/she sounds just like an obama voter I have come into contact with!
They are rabid and for some reason don’t realize obama got re-elected and have the need to tell you to get over it! That post is a perfect example of what we are dealing with. IMO.
@ Lily:
If Hitler never turned on Stalin, we would be reading how he was a heroic Socialist.
@ Mars:
Well it was going on and on about the piece about obama being called a communist so I figured it was reacting to the Pravada article. Which is pure irony in my opinion..then it just went off the deep end with all it’s pent up anger. Ah well. At least a few people saw what an obama voter is like….
@ Rodan:
The propaganda is straight in your face on that one!
@ Lily:
Obama has been turned into a cult figure.
Canoe Convoy wrote:
I’m glad I got books..besides even taking modern day thinking against Stalin and Hitler dear heavens they still are evil.
@ Lily:
It’s IntenseDebate profile shows that it’s part of a very transient species.
Rodan wrote:
I don’t know….too many dead bodies around the both of them to carry that one off!
Rodan wrote:
Well from the news today I would say he’s gone from cult to a replacing our lord and savior. Then a painting of him on the cross..both is scary to be honest. Everyday the weird just keeps getting weirder. I think with obama we’ve gone into new terrain.
@ Rodan:
I saw you lamenting the loss of young voters to the GOP earlier today.
I only have anecdotal evidence that it may not be so from the heart of Texas.
But, I have two teenagers, neither one of them or their circle of friends supported Obama. Those that were old enough to vote, cast their ballot for Romney.
Of course, they all go off to college next year, so who knows how they’ll vote next time.
Bumr50 wrote:
Oh indeed. It was just so
@ Rodan:
IMO he has been from the start and the msm promoted him as such. Much the same as you have been preaching over the past 4-6 years.
@ Calo:
There may still be some hope for the future generations.
For far too many others, though, they screwed the rest of us with their desire for Free Stuff™. They voted for folks like me, folks who are entering the prime wealth-producing years of life, to be poor. This deeply disappoints me. This will be the beginning of the 5th year that I will be underemployed. folks who voted for the O, have basically voted for guys like me to suffer through four more years of scraping paycheck to paycheck, with periods of unemployment in between.
@ Canoe Convoy:
It is for reasons and sentiments such as these, that I have written that our nation is off to the Hunger Games.
And to think, we used to use the Moon as a driving range.
And the weird just keep getting weirder….
right on cue too…
http://weaselzippers.us/2012/11/26/tingles-compares-conservatives-unhappy-with-election-results-to-wait-for-it-hitler/
Lily wrote:
Stalin was, by far, the bigger butcher.
Oliver Stone’s son converted to Islam.
Carolina Girl wrote:
It was revisionism at its worst. I tried watching the first episode and turned it off after 25 minutes. It was disgusting.
MacDuff wrote:
Comparing Stalin to Hitler as to who was worse is like comparing Rosie O’Donnell to Roseanne Barr as to who is more repulsive. Take your pick!
The New York Times is a cruel mistress.
@ Speranza:
agreed
Canoe Convoy wrote:
True…I am finding it very hard to be sympathic to any obama voter..not to mention if they tell me to get over it one more time…let’s just say when I’m not complaining and not telling you how I feel to be told to “Just get over it!” I’ll let all that pent-up annoyance out then maybe I can get back to being left alone with my own opinions kept to myself.
/I do share my opinions here but in real life I basically keep to myself especially among obama voters. Nothing good could come from it.
@ Calo:
My stepson only told hubby that he (hubby) wouldn’t be happy with who he (ss) voted for. As far as my position, ss is cut off. Made hubby tell him that he is responsible for his own car insurance and for hubby to tell grandma to quit rescuing him. Knowing them it won’t happen, but at least it isn’t coming out of my pocket.
BTW -- both hubby and grandma are conservatives (or claim they are -- hubby’s father is rolling in his grave).
Carolina Girl wrote:
In the book “Game Change”, Palin was not that huge a subject although in the HBO series she dominates the entire series.
Speranza wrote:
Two sides of the same coin.
MacDuff wrote:
Both were butchers…Stalin hung around longer is the only reason his count is higher not to mention he really started off with a bang too.
Speranza wrote:
Good grief…
Speranza wrote:
Oh yeah, that’s right. Was it in Iran?
@ Urban Infidel:
I know I think of it as a transvestite lesbian hooker that looks something like Helen Thomas.:-)
Lily wrote:
Pretty sure it was Chris Matthews.
Urban Infidel wrote:
The New York Times when I first started reading it in the 1970′s although a liberal newspaper, was a stuffy type of liberal newspaper (“The Gray Lady”) but it was always an interesting newspaper, and very well written and edited. Now under the malign influence of “Pinch” Sulzberger it has become a parody of itself.
Speranza wrote:
Well I know I’m not going to watch it for sure. To make Stalin a good guy…dear me…my language would not have been lady like. So I shall spare myself the grief.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Yes it was. Good memory!
Speranza wrote:
Exactly..one just out-lived the other. Both were butchers.
In a perfect cosmos, Oliver Stone would be transported back in time to Stalin’s U.S.S.R. circa 1937-38.
Bumr50 wrote:
Or Arnold Schwarzenegger’s maid.
Da_Beerfreak wrote:
Adolf Hitler (1889 -1945) and Joesph Stalin (1879 -1953) feared, hated, and admired each other. In a sense they were blood brothers.
Mars wrote:
LOL! Could have been. But really just sounded like your run of the mill obama voter. Hysterical.
Speranza wrote:
Right along with ‘bammie.
What the fuck is wrong with Showtime (owned by the way by C.B.S.)? What makes them give any credence to Oliver Stone as a “historian”?
Urban Infidel wrote:
Barry belongs in Pol Pot’s Cambodia circa 1975.
Speranza wrote:
In the way gila monsters love each other.
Lily wrote:
Stalin was almost as anti-Semitic as Hitler.
Speranza wrote:
Oh make it in Poland between 1938 and 1946 that way he could really *feel* what Hitler and Stalin were both like. Yep that’s the ticket. I mean if he wants to step in the shoes of Hitler and Stalin. Those are the years and the country I would pick. Poor Poland suffered horribly under both.
Urban Infidel wrote:
They admired each others ruthlessness. Hitler admired the way Stalin killed off the Red Army leadership in 1937-38 and Stalin admired the way Hitler wiped out the leadership of the Brown Shirts (the S.A.) in 1934 during the “Night of the Long Knives”.
Lily wrote:
Poland (Israel too) is the very definition of a nation located in a horrible and deranged neighborhood -- Russia to the East and Germany to the West.
Speranza wrote:
Of course he was….Stalin knew damn well what Hitler was doing to the Jewish people ..he just didn’t see Hitler stabbing him in the back. It was all cool up to then.
Speranza wrote:
Last night I watched a very interesting documentary on CNN produced by HBO on the Mumbai islamic terrorist attacks. What was most interesting to me were the recordings of the terrorists’ telephone conversations with their controllers, which were many. It was well done but at the end stupid Fareed Zakaria appears like a pakistani crypt keeper with his bobble-head imploring us to ‘help’ the poor oppressed islamics from becoming depraved mass murderers.
Lily wrote:
He wanted Germany and the West to wear each other out in war and he would swoop in at the end for the spoils.
Speranza wrote:
No kidding. Poland really suffered in WWII….talk about bad neighbors.. dear heavens.
Urban Infidel wrote:
I had seen that documentary before. Fareed Zakaria, an Indian Muslim, is an Islamic sympathizer and I cannot stand him. Obama was photographed once carrying his book. By the way the captured Islamic Mumbai terrorist was hanged last week.
@ Calo:
Hopefully they don’t fall for the propaganda.
Speranza wrote:
Yep….
@ Speranza:
It was carved up by Prussia, Austria and Russia back in the 1700′s.
Lily wrote:
Poland never had a collaborationist government in World Ware II, France did.
By the way did you know that Obama referred to France recently as our closet ally in the world? Yeah that’s right -- France! Americans consider Britain,Canada, and Israel (in that order) to be our closest allies.
Speranza wrote:
Good. Good for India. Too bad Kahlid Sheik Mohammad won’t get the hot needle. What have we become??
Rodan wrote:
My kids haven’t in fact they see it crystal clear. One is 30 and the other is 26. So yeah both of them would be considered conservative.
@ Speranza:
Oliver Stone would have done documentaries praising Stalin and Hitler.
I better get off the internet tonight before I read any more crazy stuff.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/11/26/Time-honors-fluke-person-of-year
@ Lily:
Good for them. I just the GOP would stop dismissing younger voters. We have to replenish our ranks. I thought its self defeating. But not many share my view.
@ Speranza:
Remember his Pro-Communist movie Salvador?
Speranza wrote:
No didn’t hear that…France? Your kidding? No I know you aren’t.
/no Poland didn’t have a collaborationist government like France..hence the reason if I could put Stone back into history it would be Poland circa: 1938-1946…..let him really *feel* history for a change.
Urban Infidel wrote:
I don’t know anymore but I do know it isn’t the Land of the Free like it use to be.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Israel should take note of the Indian example of how to deal with terrorists.
I was listening (and looking at) Kirsten Powers before -- what the hell did she see in Anthony Weiner that she dated him over 10 years ago?
The cigar I mentioned last week. The Reagan. Special pairing with Rush’s Two if By Tea.
Wish I could afford either one. Sounds great.
Calo wrote:
Yep saw that …the crazy is stronger each and everyday now.
@ Speranza:
Charles Johnson would have been a collaborator of the Reich.
@ Speranza:
Stone, a historian ?!? No! Daniel Boorstein, yes. Stephen Ambrose, yes. Jacques Barzun, yes. Suetonius, yes. Tacitius, yes. Josephus, yes. Richard Frank, yes. H. Roger Grant, yes. Don Hofsommer, yes. Harold Innis, yes. Not Oliver Stone.
Rodan wrote:
You would be surprised those who are for you know gay marriage and all that stuff talk a good game but are not really good at actually voting. It is the conservative ones that are normally good about getting out and voting. If you are talking about the 30 and under crowd. Now I can’t say what they are like on the east and west coast though. That may very well be a different story.
Lily wrote:
Here you go Obama administration declares: ‘we have no greater ally than France’. What about Britain, Canada and Israel?
Speranza wrote:
Does Israel have the death penalty?
Rodan wrote:
Even theoutsider denies reading LGF.
@ Urban Infidel:
I’m willing to help. I’ll even give them a choice of caliber.
Lily wrote:
I have known plenty of gay conservatives.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Only for Nazi war criminals.
Calo wrote:
Amazing they didn’t just give it to Obama.
Rodan wrote:
He would have been one of Lenin’s “useful idiots” and eventually would have wound up in the Lubyanka prison.
Rodan wrote:
No doubt.
@ Speranza:
She probably saw some “powerful politician,” or eloquent guy. Political power has always been some sort of aphrodisiac, as it makes some folks appear more “ambitious,” or something. The guy better have some ambition — he sure doesn’t have it in the looks department.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Sandra Fluke is one of the more repulsive “celebrities” that have been foisted on the nation.
Rodan wrote:
He would have been one of Lenin’s “useful idiots” and eventually would have wound up in the Lubyanka prison.lobo91 wrote:
Or treason during war time.
@ Lily:
Yeah it’s different in Florida. For people under 35 it has become unacceptable to be a Republican, People view you as some hateful scold.
It has nothing to do with Gay Marriage, it’s about just the disdain many Republicans have towards younger people. Reagan was never that way. But that was 30 years ago.
@ Speranza: Agreed. How any guy could find her attractive — well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I certainly wouldn’t give her the time of day.
@ Speranza:
Dear heavens the man is so out of touch and the media isn’t reporting anything he does unless it makes him look good. Dear me…and we have another 4 years of him to go…..
@ Speranza:
She’s ugly.
@ Speranza
Wonder why she needs free birth control?
She leaves a lot to be desired.
Canoe Convoy wrote:
A dish like Kirsten Powers could have done a lot better then a guy who looks like Arnold Horshack from “Welcome Back Kotter”.
Calo wrote:
I noticed that last night …but he did know about CJ and Pamela Geller…odd.
@ Rodan: Agreed.
Calo wrote:
I don’t think she could give it away if she stood on the docks and waited for the fleet to come in.
@ Canoe Convoy:
@ Rodan:
GMTA
@ Speranza:
I smell a whiff of jealousy.
Canoe Convoy wrote:
Rodan wrote:
Calo wrote:
An NPR host comes to mind..
Canoe Convoy wrote:
There’s nothing attractive about her.
Lily wrote:
It is going to be a dreary four years.
Here’s hoping that something happens that neuters Obama and renders him politically impotent.
@ Urban Infidel:
She makes me throw up.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Too stupid to survive??
lobo91 wrote:
and Iranian nuclear experts…
and Hamas commanders…
@ Speranza:
So have I..but I’m talking about heterosexuals promoting the so-called *gay* agenda. Not people who are actually gay and who are against those types of agendas. I wasn’t ragging on gay people at all. I’m talking about those 20-30 year olds who are all over the hot topic’s like gay marriage, abortion, class warfare, obamacare…they all talk a good game concerning these issues but they don’t get out and vote because of them. They don’t vote.
Speranza wrote:
Maybe she likes nerds. What she needs to do is to lay off the hair bleach. She’s starting to look like Dana Perino and Calista Gingrich.
Calo wrote:
Wrong. Just bewilderment.
@ lobo91:
OT update:
Party at the fire hall!
Da_Beerfreak wrote:
no if he gets the needle he becomes a martyr… if he rots in a cell he becomes dust.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Dana Perino, another useless Fox commentator along with Karl Rove, Sarah Palin, and Dick Morris.
Speranza wrote:
Why does anyone? First off, it’s cheap as dirt and saying ‘no’ doesn’t cost a thing.
Lily wrote:
We need to lay off that issue and let people make up their own minds. We cannot be thought of as the anti-gay Party.
Urban Infidel wrote:
She can pick up a pack of condoms at any Walgreens for what -- $5???
Mars wrote:
http://youtu.be/PTjgFNTC_2E
Rodan wrote:
I was using that as one of the social hot topics. They tend to be all over these topics and all down for them. These types tend to be vocal and be democrat but don’t vote.
But from what I can tell I don’t see any Republican hate among them the conservatives around here. Not at all. I see more nastiness among the older crowd thinking 55 and older. They seem to be stuck in the 1960′s just like the crowd of younger ones that don’t vote they seem all over the hot topic social issues..it is the older group that thinks Republicans are evil.
Brigitte Gabriel is on Hannity -- she talks 70 miles per hour. Slow down!!
Speranza wrote:
That’s what I wrote in a very heartfelt message to a childhood friend who is a strong republican working in DC. He’s also gay. He is in favor of gay marriage.
Lily wrote:
Neither do I -- but it’s the perception that is killing us.
@ Speranza:
Hopefully he over reaches. The fact some are declaring him a god is a sign they may cross lines.
brookly red wrote:
Martyrs are a dime a dozen and way over rated.
Speranza wrote:
But that would be humiliating for law students to have to stoop to shopping at the evil Walgreens or CVS and laying out their
ownparents’ money for it, no less. The humanity! /Fluke offMars wrote:
I am a traditionalist but frankly it is not a subject that I care that much about or want to fall on my sword over.
Speranza wrote:
Lebanese women are like that. Even my Spanish speaking Lebanese relatives are like that.
Speranza wrote:
Sure she could drunken sailors aren’t picky!
Urban Infidel wrote:
Yeah it is asking too much of a 31 year old student to pay for her own condoms -- or expect her “lover” to do it.
Rodan wrote:
Michelle Malkin also talks as if they are paying her by the word.
@ Speranza:
Rove and Morris need to go.
Speranza wrote:
There is a good chance of that happening. No telling what these next 4 years hold …that is if we make through 12/21/12 ..LOL!
Speranza wrote:
I’m with you. I am however still opposed to my ex getting married to her girlfriend./
Speranza wrote:
Or she could drive any late-model Pontiac Aztek!
@ Lily:
Hmmmm just looking at those numbers 12/21/12 ….goes to 3+3+3 and then you come to the spiritual number 9. Odd. Oh well we will find out in due time.
Rodan wrote:
And most presidents second terms are worse then their first. By 2014 the nation will be so tired of him (hopefully) that he will be viewed with the traditional disdain of a lame duck. George W. Bush gave up on his presidency in the summer of 2005 after Katrina.
Rodan wrote:
That’s because you know her politic’s and you aren’t a drunken sailor on leave.
Speranza wrote:
She’s not a student anymore. She graduated in the spring and passed the California bar.
And her boyfriend’s family is rich.
Lily wrote:
whenever someone starts with that “evil” BS I ask them “oh, and killing babies is righteous?”
and if I time it right I can move on their date while they are making an ass of themselves…
Mars wrote:
At least you did not lose her to another guy! /
@ Lily:
But can the world live with a President Joe The Biden™? I think so!
Rodan wrote:
There are a lot of people on FOX who need to go. I say fire every single one of them and get some new blood.
Macker wrote:
Biden would do less damage then Obama as he would probably get himself accidentally locked in the men’s room for most of his term.
Speranza wrote:
they are.
Bumr50 wrote:
Weren’t they missing all of one hour before people got concerned?
lobo91 wrote:
And HUMONGOUS donors to the dem party.
@ Urban Infidel:
I hear ya. The indignity of having to take care and be responsible for one’s own birth control — or, as many women tell men all the time, “Keep it in yer pants!”
Urban Infidel wrote:
I hear Keith Olbermann’s available…
//
brookly red wrote:
No they do not. This is not like Dicken’s days with his novel when he got paid by the length of them.
Speranza wrote:
I think I would have preferred it. The fact she carried on a 6 month + affair with a severely unattractive woman was not pleasant.
Urban Infidel wrote:
BINGO! Yet during this election you would have thought it was as pricey as GOLD. The ignorance and willfull ignorance at that was astounding.
@ Lily:
Their cell phone battery probably died.
Urban Infidel wrote:
No I like Pat Cadell, Doug Schoen, Charles Krauthammer and Dennis Miller. I think Roger Ailes just snatched up every “conservative” who was available no matter how good they were as commenters. Oh I forgot, get rid of Pat Buchanan, Michelle Malkin, John Stossel, Rick Santorum, Andrew (9-11 Truther) Napolitano, Jeanine Pirro and Mike Shmuckabee.
@ Macker:
Silhouette.
Speranza wrote:
I can see Biden responding to the news that the Russians put missiles in Cuba by saying oh yeah lets build a hotel on Park place.
@ lobo91:
Oh, that’s even more rich! “We can afford a mansion in the Correct Side of Town, but everyone else still has to pay for our birth control ! ” What a limousine leftist !
I think that just looking at her would be birth control enough — it is for me !
@ Urban Infidel:
I agree.
brookly red wrote:
He would make some dumb Cuban joke.
@ Speranza:
Pat Cadell and Doug Schoen warned Republicans about this election. They turned out to be right.
Mars wrote:
So let her boyfriend dip into his trust fund and buy some prophylactics for her.
Speaking of Fox I do like Bernie Goldberg although I wish O’Reilly would let him finish a sentence once in a while.
Get rid of Geraldo Rivera and Shep Smith!!!!!!!!!!
Speranza wrote:
They didn’t go out and vote because of those issues is what I’m trying to tell you …they DON’T VOTE AT ALL. And trust me THEY ARE THE ONES THAT WILL BRING IT UP over and over and over and over and over again. You can run from those issues all you want but the other side is going to bring it up. You can ignore and seem out of touch. The thing is they are always going to be the topic. Our side needs to know how to answer them that fits also with conservative views and doesn’t turn off conservatives or the middle of the road people. But first we need voter turn-out. That what was really lacking in this election …our side didn’t turn out and vote.
Rodan wrote:
I like those guys as well as Kirsten Powers -- my type of Democrats. I can disagree with them but they are not obnoxious.
Speranza wrote:
Definitely get ride of Pirro and take Martha McCallum and Megyn Kelly too. Napolitano was let go months ago for something possibly related to what Michael Scheuer might have said on his show, Freedom Watch. Shepard Smith has long needed to be shown the door. Thank god O’Reilly stopped bringing on that idiotic Russian word chick, holy crap, that was embarrassing.
Speranza wrote:
Low voter turn-out doesn’t help!
@ Urban Infidel:
Napolitano still appears on Fox News. I saw him this morning.
Urban Infidel wrote:
Megyn Kelly is too much the prosecutor (which she once was). Andrew Napolitano is a certified loon who looks like some sort of consigliere from The Godfather. Stossel is a whiny little twerp and I cannot stand his voice. I like Dennis Miller although I cringe whenever he refers to O’Reilly as “Billy”. Also O’Reilly’s constant pimping of his books and “Factor gear” is so over the top.
Rodan wrote:
BINGO Rodan…humble isn’t in that mans body…he will probably go a bridge too far. He believe’s in all this “he is the lord and the savior” crap because if he didn’t he would tell those people to knock it off…you aren’t hearing him do that now do ya? His ego is gonna be on steroids now.
lobo91 wrote:
He lost his show on FBN, so maybe now he’s a contributor or guest host. He’s a bit of a truther.
Urban Infidel wrote:
I really don’t like O’Reilly. He represents everything unlikeable about our party.
(Why did someone say we needed to get rid of Stossel? I read a lot of his stuff and he’s pretty solid common sense. Is his program different?)
lobo91 wrote:
Via Wikipedia
Miss Lindsey Graham on Greta bVan Sustern (another show that frankly is a bore).
@ Speranza:
I like Greta van Sustern, she’s a pretty decent interviewer. Geraldo should be banned for life. I listen to his radio show sometimes on WABC and he’s a total liberal moron.
Lily wrote:
pride commeth before the fall…
brookly red wrote:
LOL! Good comeback.
@ Speranza:
She was never a prosecutor. She practiced corporate law.
Kimberly Guilfoyle was a prosecutor, and so was Lis Wiehl.
Mars wrote:
O’Reilly is not a Republican, he seems more Libertarian. As for Stossel he is a whiny Social Dawrwinist who said “What’s wrong with Iran getting nukes, after all we lived with the USSR having nukes?”. Someone (I think Hannity) told the dummy that the USSR did not embrace “martyrdom”.
Mars wrote:
I can only imagine. Prayers to you! Yikes.
lobo91 wrote:
That’s correct, I confused her with Guilfoyle.
lobo91 wrote:
Or they were out of range. First I have ever heard of calling the police on adults who are missing all of one hour! And the police taking it seriously to boot! That’s a first.
Mars wrote:
It would have hurt me less if I lost her to another woman, I would rationalize it as “Hey there was nothing I could do about that, she swings the other way”. That’s just me.
Lily wrote:
As I said, they’ll last maybe a week when the SHTF.
Speranza wrote:
That was a stupid comment.
O’Reilly comes off as a smarmy asshole. And he proved several times (most notably when he interviewed ICP) that he’s not socially libertarian.
@ Speranza:
She’s the one who used to be married to Gavin Newsom.
lobo91 wrote:
Where did this happen?
Urban Infidel wrote:
Greta has the same people over and over on her show -- Donald Trump, Miss Lindsey Graham, Dick Morris, McCain, Palin, Gingrich, John Bolton, occasionally Rudy Giuliani.
She just had Miss Lindsey Graham on. Shocker.
lobo91 wrote:
The former Mayor of San Francisco.
@ Speranza:
And current Lt Governor of California.
Mars wrote:
John Stossel is an extreme sort of libertarian, not as bad as Andrew Napolitano (a buddy of Alex Jones) but almost.
lobo91 wrote:
Probably the next Governor of California.
Speranza wrote:
Alex Jones is like a creepy stalker.
@ Lily:
SE of Pittsburgh, in a rural area.
@ Bumr50:
I’m surprised the police took it seriously after only one hour to be honest.
Mars wrote:
Alex Jones needs to be put in a straitjacket.
@ Lily:
I bet they were having some beers, came out of the woods, and said “Holy sh*t!”
Somebody’s significant other freaked out.
@ Bumr50:
No kidding. I’m sure I would be laughed at if I called the police here and said my husband is an hour late! They would say …and?
“You know ma’am a lot of husbands stop off and have a beer before they get home.” Or “Ma’am an hour late doesn’t constitute being missing quite just yet.”
Speranza wrote:
LOL is alex bell still around?
Speranza wrote:
Yep, then he can be put in one of his “prison camps”.
Speranza wrote:
That’s a job I wouldn’t take if you offered it to me.
Didn’t Alex Jones once gin up a mob against Michelle Malkin? Why yes, yes he did.
So it’s interesting that Malkin is being denounced here in the same breath as Napolitano . . . given that they most likely dislike each other.
As for people Fox should or should not have on their network: meh. They’ve all had their best moments, and they’ve all had moments that are not so good.
Lily wrote:
I think in NYC it is 24 hours (maybe 48) before you can report someone as missing…
@ brookly red:
You mean Art Bell?
I think he’s still alive, but I don’t believe he’s doing radio anymore.
lobo91 wrote:
I would do it if I could work from home…
lobo91 wrote:
yeah that guy… I think he invented the tin foil hat
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/academic-interest-in-taboo-must-move-beyond-immediate-condemnation-20121127-2a4ev.html
Coming to our country soon.
In Australia they are now saying that the stigma needs to be removed from pedophilia so it can be studied properly.
@ brookly red:
Depending on the circumstances it is usually 24-48 hours before you can report an adult missing and have the police take it seriously. Now if there is suspious circumstances concerning it they might take a longer look at it before it hits the magically 24 to 48 hour time-line. And depending on the state maybe even 72 hours. But something has to be really off before they start to take it seriously …that is normally. But in this case I guess an hour was all it took.
I’d take the job of governor of the Territory of California, if among the terms of the settlement were: that I would have it for six years, that I would have a force of loyal troops at my disposal, and that I would not be answerable to the elected representatives of that territory.
I’d immediately hire Mencius Moldbug as my grand-vizier; I could think of certain others from ’round the ‘web I’d draft as satraps of this county or that.
As long as California remains a State, under that State’s current political makeup, being governor of that region is a sucker’s game.
Speranza wrote:
Like Charles Johnson.
@ Mars:
I hereby offer the Australian pedophiles the same help I offered the Pakistani Muslims above.
Mars wrote:
Really??? So children are free game now too? Like I said before “how far down the rabbit hole will this go?” concerning these issues.
Why can’t they study them behind bars?
Lily wrote:
They say it’s because of the “instant revulsion” caused by the condemnation.
Really sick.
Norway *unexpectedly* apologizes to Jews for WW2 treatment. major eyeroll. The King of Norway is a real piece of work regarding Israel.
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=293510
Mars wrote:
we have to pass it to see what’s in it
seriously I am pro life to the point I don’t support the death penalty for homicide. But I would hang a pedophile from a lamppost faster than Domino’s could deliver a pizza.
@ brookly red:
My plan would make it easier to study what’s in their head.
Trust me…
@ brookly red:
I’m still waiting for my shrimp burrito sans guacamole .
Calo wrote:
Dorian are it…
yeah that’s the ticket.
@ brookly red:
Dorian probably counted out the shrimps. No extra illegal shrimp allowed in the burrito.
Calo wrote:
there were 12, all of age…
@ brookly red:
That’s Tennessee math.
Even us Texans know when you New Yorkers try to get one over on us slow talkers down South.
Calo wrote:
Hey don’t have a fur ball…
Canoe Convoy wrote:
Or you can move to Russia.
Yes, Russia. That’s where we’ll probably end up.
@ brookly red:
Nah, just razzing Dorian from an earlier thread today.
@ 1389AD:
I’m curious, what are the requirements for a foreigner to move there?
1389AD wrote:
Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out
They leave the west behind
And Moscow girls make me sing and shout
That Georgia’s always on my my my my my my my my my mind
brookly red wrote:
A fall that will take the US down with it.
http://www.crn.com/news/security/240142520/report-u-s-launched-flame-based-malware-attack-against-france.htm?pXFz&wc=4&cid=sem_su&pQZz
What the hell?
I’m not as optimistic as Rodan about the state of Russia. Too many people still disappearing in the night.
@ Mars:
I never said they were a free country. They are a Rightwing Capitalist Nationalist regime. This is Pinochet’s Chile on a bigger scale.
1389AD wrote:
hey don’t blame me I didn’t vote for him… but like my judo coach said. roll over, get up and gut punch.
I think America will come back. But it will not happen anytime soon. When we do, We will not be the world’s sucker. There will be some scores to settle. But that is far off.
Mars wrote:
hey people disappear here all the time, in broad daylight. Shit happens.
New Thread.
Rodan wrote:
I can agree with that.
People should look up the list of people that have been killed investigating the FSB. After 3 people you no longer have a coincidence.
One good point though, very soon Russia will have more freedom of religion than we will.
Rodan wrote:
well not so fast, we are the land of instant gratification…shit could change (I hate this phrase) in a New York Minute.
brookly red wrote:
Not quite what I meant.
Calo wrote:
Not sure yet. That’s something we need to look into. Probably we’ll go somewhere else first, then travel around a bit before we end up in Russia.
Lily wrote:
A lot of it is vote theft. The enemy rigged the machines to ignore our votes…and deep-sixed the military votes.
Da_Beerfreak wrote:
He should have been shot on sight. Now they have to find some pretext to just make the POS disappear. Cement overshoes.
Mars wrote:
If those who disappear are people associated with nefarious foreign influences (such as jihadis, US-backed or Soros-backed NGOs, or journalists who spread lies about Russia they way journalists still do about the Serbs -- then Putin and company are doing the right thing.
They MUST defend Russia’s sovereignty as a Christian nation -- because they are the last fortress standing.
Anybody see this?
Stalin’s Sock Puppet
@ 1389AD:
I’m just curious.
Some countries require you to show proof in the form of a bank account or other assets of being self-supporting without the host countries help.
Meh, maybe Russia doesn’t.
Good luck 1389.
Store made ranch dressing has now been banned from school lunches in my nephews school. This is on the back of the juice.
Lily wrote:
Pakimon wrote in August 2012:
And btw. ferb123 is a gambler who isn’t interested in politics but in gambling and betting.
Lily wrote:
Pakimon wrote about “soulstraw” at DoD in August:
Btw: ferb123 is a gambler who is not interested in politics but in gambling and betting. He couldn’t care less about who is president in the U.S.A. of America or elsewhere in the world. His only desire is to make as much money from elections/economic decisions as he can.
All my postings disappear. Interesting.
Dolphin wrote:
No he isn’t, he started posting here and at DoD at August 2012.
@ Lily:
Stalin was refusing to see that Hitler was betraying him. Even though German diplomats left Soviet Union, reconnaissance planes violated Soviet airspace, German merchant ships left Soviet waters, Stalin was adamant that Germany was not going to attack. Surely his best pal would not betray him, after all. And so Red Army was caught its pants down.
Zimriel wrote:
One has nothing to do with the other.
Calo wrote:
I don’t know for sure about Russia, but that’s an eventual goal, not an immediate one.
I do know that to get into Chile, you must arrive with a round-trip ticket (in case you can’t make a go of it -- Chile is not a welfare state). Then if you have a clean record you can apply for work and get a work permit without too much difficulty. You need a little cash to get started; we will have to sell off what little we have in the way of assets (other than our retirement funds).
Rodan wrote:
There is freedom for the individual to make a living, to worship, to do all of the things that normal people want to do. What they do not have and should not have is freedom to subvert the government to set up a totalitarian socialist (and/or Islamic) regime.