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Conservatives need to set up a counter culture

by Rodan ( 135 Comments › )
Filed under Conservatism, Entertainment, Media, Movies, Music, Progressives, The Political Right at November 29th, 2012 - 7:00 am

We have had much debate over what the Republican Party needs to do to win elections. But we all agree that the Media-Entertainment Industrial complex will prevent any improved message from reaching the masses. The Democrat Party is an arm of this machine and the means through which the media and Hollywood control the nation. They set the narrative and this has enabled them to turn America into a Progressive nation.

Many Conservatives have engaged in the culture war. Although they were able to name the enemy, the tactics they used backfired. The Media-Entertainment Industrial Complex was able to paint Conservatives as grouch scolds and picking on them. This worked and has poisoned an entire generation to Conservatism and the Republican Party. A better tactic would have been to set up a parallel Media-Entertainment Industrial complex. In short, a Conservative counter culture needs to be established to smash the Progressive narrative.

Progressive have pushed their agenda in the popular culture through storytelling. Through movies, novels and music, the Left has pushed it’s ideas without people realizing it. This is a tactic the Right needs to emulate. We need to start storytelling and push our worldview without people realizing.

It’s been weeks since our “surprise” loss on November 6. The conservative crack-up began in real time, as we watched Karl Rove, à la Captain Queeg, insist that his employer, Fox News, was calling Ohio, and the election, for President Obama prematurely.

Then came the fingerpointing, and the conjecture. Our pundits covered every scenario. We were too conservative. We weren’t conservative enough. The social issues killed us. We didn’t hit the social issues hard enough. We had a candidate problem. A woman problem. A Hispanic problem. It will continue for months, this self-abuse masquerading as self-examination. And liberals will eat it up, watching us wallow in self-doubt.

But if there is one thing conservatives can agree on post-election, it’s this: The dominance of the Left in the storytelling arena is making a difference at the polls. It’s impossible to measure, but anyone who doesn’t think it skews outcomes is living in an alternative universe.

The fact is, it’s easier to sell a political narrative to America when it comports with the cultural narrative we see and hear every day.

[....]

Plato understood the power of storytellers. It’s why he wanted to ban them in his dream society. Wisely, the Left understands the importance of storytelling and dominates almost every aspect of it in the culture, from content creation to distribution. Regrettably, too few conservatives think storytelling matters.

We’ve invested billions in our great think tanks but little in the task of translating that work into stories the average American will care about. Yes, we have Fox News and political talk radio — important outlets, but outlets that narrowcast to the conservative base and are driven by politics and opinion, not storytelling.

[....]

Conservatives have a profound storytelling deficit, yet all we do is whine and complain about it. It’s part of our DNA, our whining about the culture, as if we’re incapable of reverse-engineering the Left’s success.

[....]

You’d think our wealthiest conservatives would want to mimic that accomplishment in other areas of our culture. Why not create an alternative to NPR? It reaches 33 million people with its feigned neutrality. Or The Daily Show? Ridicule is a powerful weapon, and the Left offers Americans much to laugh about.

Conservatives and Libertarians need to create a counter culture. The Progressives, via the Media-Entertainment Industrial complex, set the cultural agenda. The answer is to be the rebels against the system. It is time to turn the tables on the Left and paint them as oppressors and us as the liberators. This can be done by creating movies depicting Progressives as evil and screwing people over. Storytelling will be the way to spread Rightwing ideas in the American culture.

Fight the power should be the Conservative motto!

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135 Responses to “Conservatives need to set up a counter culture”
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  1. 1 | November 29, 2012 8:06 am

    Great post and topic, Rodan! This is where I believe there is some hope, under the Republican umbrella, there are an increasing number of people with a libertarian mindset and that, not conservatism per se, is where our growth is. Conservatism will always occupy a major and important portion of the Republican message, but we should actively promote our libertarian brethren for they hold the key to growth. Alas, “conservatism” has become so besmirched by Huckabee, Santorum, and Akins et al that many recoil at the mere mention of the word. The “conservative” brand has been very seriously wounded and, while many of us have a deeply held belief in it, it’s all moot if it doesn’t win elections. Maybe it’s time to put our libertarian wing in the spotlight.

    There’s far more agreement between conservatives and libertarians than there is disagreement.

    It’s curious that you use the term “counter culture”; the most notable (and perhaps notorious) counter culture, with which people are aware, was that of the late 60s/early 70s. These people were not big government liberals, they were libertarians. Many of them grew up to be part of the Reagan and yes, many grew up to be the Leftist Statists we see today, but many also became more libertarian as they aged.

    Democrats, being the statists that they are have become so damned authoritarian that they simply can not accommodate a libertarian ideology but among Republicans, they have a natural home. This is where our future is.


  2. 2 | November 29, 2012 8:09 am

    This is much easier said than done. Having the storytellers isn’t enough. You must have the medium to get the message out. If there is one thing this past election showed, it is the power of the Legacy Media to control the narrative. From George Sheepanopolis asking his question about Birth COntrol to the “War on Women” they controlled the narrative, and the dumb broads ate it up. Sandra Fluke should have been a laughing stock, but instead she became the face of entitlement to women everywhere. It is quite distressing.


  3. Storagemanager
    3 | November 29, 2012 8:13 am

    The love of Islam…so sweet a song..

    Two men have been arrested for slitting the throat of a 15-year-old Afghan girl after her family refused a marriage proposal, police said Thursday.

    The girl was carrying water from a river to her village home in northern Kunduz province on Wednesday when she was murdered, police spokesman Sayed Sarwar Hussaini told AFP.

    “The two men attacked her and slit her throat with a knife,” he said. “They were arrested and are in police custody.”

    Hussaini said one of the suspects had proposed marriage to the girl but her family had rejected the offer.

    Extreme violence against women and girls remains a major problem in the conservative Muslim nation more than a decade after U.S.-led troops brought down the notoriously brutal Taliban Islamist regime.

    According to figures by British charity organization Oxfam, 87 percent of Afghan women report having experienced physical, sexual or psychological violence or forced marriage.

    Last month a 20-year-old woman was beheaded by her husband’s family in the western province of Herat after she refused to become a prostitute, police said. Four people were arrested over the brutal killing.

    And in September, five people were arrested over the public flogging of a 16-year-old girl for allegedly having an affair http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/29/252454.html


  4. coldwarrior
    4 | November 29, 2012 8:18 am

    see, its easy to complain and tear down. revolutionaries are great at overthrowing governments but lousy at building a society. gop’ers are great at complaining about culture / bitching about young people and media but lousy about doing anything about it.


  5. 5 | November 29, 2012 8:19 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Libertarians don’t win elections. Period. There has never been as much as a single Libertarian congressman (unless you count Ron Paul, and Ron Paul is batshit crazy) or Senator. Even the Socialists can point to Bernie Sanders and say they’ve had some electoral success. The Libertarians cannot. While I agree that there is much commonality between libertarian positions and conservative positions, I don’t see that we can gain electoral success by emphasizing those.


  6. citizen_q
    6 | November 29, 2012 8:20 am

    Great article by Steve McCann at American Thinker that summarizes my thoughts since the election.

    The Governing Class and the Decline of America


  7. Storagemanager
    7 | November 29, 2012 8:22 am

    Please put her away and make the press shut up

    Lindsay Lohan charged with assault, accused of punching woman in face at NYC nightclub

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/11/29/lindsay-lohan-reportedly-arrested-after-fight-at-nyc-nightclub/?intcmp=features#ixzz2DcM0gwHb


  8. Storagemanager
    8 | November 29, 2012 8:24 am

    citizen_q wrote:

    Great article by Steve McCann at American Thinker that summarizes my thoughts since the election.
    The Governing Class and the Decline of America

    Dumb down the schools..take civics and pride of America history away and you get….TODAY.


  9. Storagemanager
    9 | November 29, 2012 8:25 am

    Take English away and just speak street slang and you get…TODAY.


  10. Storagemanager
    10 | November 29, 2012 8:28 am

    Kids have no idea how America government works…they took civics out of school….my niece thinks it is top down…I told her it starts from the bottom..local,county,state and federal…she said yeah..if you are right wing.


  11. coldwarrior
    11 | November 29, 2012 8:32 am

    Storagemanager wrote:

    Kids have no idea how America government works…they took civics out of school….my niece thinks it is top down…I told her it starts from the bottom..local,county,state and federal…she said yeah..if you are right wing.

    this is on purpose.

    econ has been removed on purpose i am sure. ask people how the bond market (debt) functions and you get deer in the headlights. an idiot electorate cant make informed decisions.


  12. coldwarrior
    12 | November 29, 2012 8:33 am

    @ MacDuff:

    how DARE you try to expand the republican tent!!!!

    you will be flogged, non-believer!

    :lol:


  13. Storagemanager
    13 | November 29, 2012 8:38 am

    Muslim extremists murdered a Jewish woman and then dismembered her body in the Iranian city of Isfahan, Israel Radio reported.

    The woman’s relatives said that a mosque had recently been built near their home, and that worshippers had demanded that the family leave their home in order to expand the building. The homeowner had submitted an official compaint against the worshippers.

    The incident has raised growing concerns within Iran’s Jewish community, which is fearful of additional attacks. http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=293961


  14. 14 | November 29, 2012 8:41 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Libertarians don’t win elections. Period. There has never been as much as a single Libertarian congressman (unless you count Ron Paul, and Ron Paul is batshit crazy) or Senator. Even the Socialists can point to Bernie Sanders and say they’ve had some electoral success. The Libertarians cannot. While I agree that there is much commonality between libertarian positions and conservative positions, I don’t see that we can gain electoral success by emphasizing those.

    I’m increasingly hearing people describing themselves with hyphens such as “libertarian/conservative” or “libertarian/moderate” or some such combination. Many of us on this very board pigeonhole ourselves that way and if you scratch an “independent”, more often than not, they’ll bleed a little libertarianism.

    That said, it doesn’t have much of a reputation outside the PaulBots, but, as crazy as he is, he may well have been a net plus for libertarianism. Outside monkish circles like this one, that is among people who aren’t consumed by politics and policy, Ron Paul had a pretty good reputation. The problem with Paul was, politically, if you stood from a distance and squinted your eyes, he was great…the closer you got and the more you listed to him, the more bats hit crazy he became.


  15. Storagemanager
    15 | November 29, 2012 8:42 am

    “I’m really worried,” Bowles told reporters. “I believe the probability is we’re going over the cliff.”

    Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.newsmax.com/newswidget/fiscal-cliff-erskine-bowles/2012/11/28/id/465677?promo_code=EB8D-1&utm_source=National_Review&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1#ixzz2DcR2ESTf


  16. coldwarrior
    16 | November 29, 2012 8:43 am

    @ MacDuff:

    i more libertarian than gop republican.that is FOR SURE


  17. 17 | November 29, 2012 8:44 am

    @ Storagemanager:

    Yeah, and I don’t see how you sell responsibility to low-information voters. If they had any sense of responsibility, they wouldn’t be low-information voters. That was Sandra Fluke’s success. She was selling irresponsibility. She’s paying $50K a year for school to go to one of the most exclusive schools around, but she can’t fork over the $9 a month for her own birth control pills. Not to mention that she is 32 and still in school. No doubt that she plans on getting a job for the government when she finally finishes. Responsibility isn’t in her vocabulary, and that sells. It is just like that (we thought) silly “Life of Julia” cartoon. Apparently most women want the government to take care of them cradle to grave.


  18. Storagemanager
    18 | November 29, 2012 8:47 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:
    Yeah, and I don’t see how you sell responsibility to low-information voters. If they had any sense of responsibility, they wouldn’t be low-information voters. That was Sandra Fluke’s success. She was selling irresponsibility. She’s paying $50K a year for school to go to one of the most exclusive schools around, but she can’t fork over the $9 a month for her own birth control pills. Not to mention that she is 32 and still in school. No doubt that she plans on getting a job for the government when she finally finishes. Responsibility isn’t in her vocabulary, and that sells. It is just like that (we thought) silly “Life of Julia” cartoon. Apparently most women want the government to take care of them cradle to grave.

    When I was young,my dad said no one owes you a living..you must work….kids are now taught ..they are owed a living.


  19. RIX
    19 | November 29, 2012 8:47 am

    Good morning. How many times have you heard that
    Independents decide elections?
    We now discover that the self-proclaimed Independents
    are really to the left & think that it is hip to be
    defined as Independents.
    The trick is how to convert them.


  20. 20 | November 29, 2012 8:47 am

    Gore their oxen and it’s amazing how malleable their positions can be.

    KATY PERRY TEAMS UP WITH ANTI-TAXERS TO FIGHT BIG GOVERNMENT


  21. 21 | November 29, 2012 8:48 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    ask people how the bond market (debt) functions and you get deer in the headlights.

    Yep. People think the National Debt is just some abstract, meaningless number that always goes up. They have no clue. Just like they think that the Congress can raise the debt ceiling indefinately (Geithner actually was callin gon congress to abolishit. He clearly doesn’t get how the bond market works, either). The idea that maybe people won’t want to continue loaning the US money at 0% effective interest rates doesn’t even cross their minds.


  22. Storagemanager
    22 | November 29, 2012 8:50 am

    RIX wrote:

    Good morning. How many times have you heard that
    Independents decide elections?
    We now discover that the self-proclaimed Independents
    are really to the left & think that it is hip to be
    defined as Independents.
    The trick is how to convert them.

    How do you make a lazy man give up free stuff?


  23. coldwarrior
    23 | November 29, 2012 8:52 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    washington, including the gop have no fear of the bond market anymore becasue they allowed the fed to monetarize the debt.

    the backlash we should have had from the bond market has been gutted by DC.

    that means more power taken away from the people


  24. RIX
    24 | November 29, 2012 8:53 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    Senator Durbin is clueless.
    He claims that with the Iraq War over & Afghanistan winding
    down, we should have new revenues to spend.
    Those wars were funded on a Bank of China credit card.


  25. Storagemanager
    25 | November 29, 2012 8:54 am

    A pig in a poke

    Draft of New Egyptian Constitution Published

    The draft of a new constitution to be voted upon by the Egyptian parliament was published, Thursday afternoon, on the Website of the semi-official Al-Ahram newspaper.

    The document stresses democratic principles while declaring, “The principles of Islamic law are the main source of the constitution.”
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/256302


  26. RIX
    26 | November 29, 2012 8:54 am

    @ Storagemanager:

    How do you make a lazy man give up free stuff?

    Not easily.


  27. 27 | November 29, 2012 8:58 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    This is much easier said than done. Having the storytellers isn’t enough. You must have the medium to get the message out. If there is one thing this past election showed, it is the power of the Legacy Media to control the narrative. From George Sheepanopolis asking his question about Birth COntrol to the “War on Women” they controlled the narrative, and the dumb broads ate it up. Sandra Fluke should have been a laughing stock, but instead she became the face of entitlement to women everywhere. It is quite distressing.

    No one said it was easy. It starts with message Discipline. If a Republican gets ask a toxic issue, just brush the question aside.


  28. Storagemanager
    28 | November 29, 2012 8:58 am

    RIX wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:

    How do you make a lazy man give up free stuff?
    Not easily.

    and all the baby boomers who took disability and early SSI


  29. 29 | November 29, 2012 8:59 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Rand Paul is Libertarian.


  30. Storagemanager
    30 | November 29, 2012 8:59 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    This is much easier said than done. Having the storytellers isn’t enough. You must have the medium to get the message out. If there is one thing this past election showed, it is the power of the Legacy Media to control the narrative. From George Sheepanopolis asking his question about Birth COntrol to the “War on Women” they controlled the narrative, and the dumb broads ate it up. Sandra Fluke should have been a laughing stock, but instead she became the face of entitlement to women everywhere. It is quite distressing.

    No one said it was easy. It starts with message Discipline. If a Republican gets ask a toxic issue, just brush the question aside.

    Mr. so and so refused to answer…it must be asked…what does he have to hide?


  31. 31 | November 29, 2012 9:01 am

    I always hear that “if we just ran a real conservative, we’d win”. Sorry, I don’t buy that. The “Reagan Coalition was more than 30 years ago and it was just that, a friggin’ coalition which means “a combination or alliance, especially a temporary one between persons, factions, states, etc.”

    We’ve been misreading 1980 for more than 30 years, and we’re wondering why we’re losing elections?!

    If our pony continues to trot out “CONSERVATISM!” as his one and only trick, well, the crowds at our circus will continue to dwindle.


  32. RIX
    32 | November 29, 2012 9:03 am

    @ Storagemanager:
    Obama is claiming that if there is not a deal & we go
    off the cliff, we will not be able to fund disability.
    You know that he won’t be blamed.


  33. 33 | November 29, 2012 9:04 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    more libertarian than gop republican.that is FOR SURE

    I think many of us are on this board.


  34. Storagemanager
    34 | November 29, 2012 9:05 am

    RIX wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:
    Obama is claiming that if there is not a deal & we go
    off the cliff, we will not be able to fund disability.
    You know that he won’t be blamed.

    When all of the baby boomers are retired and there is not a job force to sustain them…it will all fall down.


  35. 35 | November 29, 2012 9:06 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:

    Rand Paul is Libertarian.

    I have a high hopes for my junior Senator; perhaps he can carry the libertarian message without his father’s lunacy.


  36. ferb123
    36 | November 29, 2012 9:18 am

    apropo hollywood. I am making a list of TV series which are considered as “conservative” or “progessive”.

    Here some suggestions from me :)
    conservative:
    Dallas (?)
    Navy CIS, CIS Miami, CIS NY, etc.
    JAG
    Law & Order

    progessive:
    starship enterprise
    new girl
    Simpson
    desperate housewives (?)

    I am thankfull for any suggestions :)
    how I met your mother (?)


  37. huckfunn
    37 | November 29, 2012 9:19 am

    Storytelling will be the way to spread Rightwing ideas in the American culture.

    The problem is that the left’s propaganda machine goes well beyond storytelling. Their whole platform is built on big lies. “Free healthcare, free food stamps, free phones, free housing, free education”. Their campaign against political opponents is built on big lies. “Romney kills women with cancer. Romney is a felon. Romney will take away contraception, social security… etc.” How do we expose their lies in a way that people will truly believe? It’s pretty hard to get people to give up “free” stuff when they’re too stupid to understand that it ain’t free.


  38. 38 | November 29, 2012 9:20 am

    Storagemanager wrote:

    and all the baby boomers who took disability and early SSI

    Storagemanager wrote:

    When all of the baby boomers are retired and there is not a job force to sustain them…it will all fall down.

    You do understand, of course, that “Boomers”, as a whole, made some very good money throughout their careers and virtually funded the government for decades, right? We’re also, politically, as conservative as we are liberal.

    Perhaps it’s fashionable to lay the nation’s sins at the feet of the Boomers, but it’s a bit more complicated than that and, by the way, your blanket statements about Boomers “taking disability” are nasty and reek of ignorance. You wanna walk in my moccasins?


  39. coldwarrior
    39 | November 29, 2012 9:22 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    more libertarian than gop republican.that is FOR SURE
    I think many of us are on this board.

    libertarian is much closer to my fiscon beliefs than are the gop.


  40. Storagemanager
    40 | November 29, 2012 9:24 am

    @ MacDuff:
    I am a boomer…I was talking numbers…we are the biggest block of people on SSI…there is no job force to replenish SSI…is about numbers.


  41. Storagemanager
    41 | November 29, 2012 9:26 am

    I will be 55 soon…I am a boomer…there are not enough workers to replace us…( if America had JOBS ) in the work force paying into SSI.


  42. coldwarrior
    42 | November 29, 2012 9:28 am

    @ Storagemanager:

    roosevelt said the SS would need to be reformed some time in the 60′s.

    i dont expect to see one red cent of SS. so i have to take care of myself and not rely on the govt


  43. huckfunn
    43 | November 29, 2012 9:29 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    You do understand, of course, that “Boomers”, as a whole, made some very good money throughout their careers and virtually funded the government for decades, right? We’re also, politically, as conservative as we are liberal.

    Perhaps it’s fashionable to lay the nation’s sins at the feet of the Boomers, but it’s a bit more complicated than that and, by the way, your blanket statements about Boomers “taking disability” are nasty and reek of ignorance. You wanna walk in my moccasins?

    Here’s where I think the boomers went wrong, and I’m certainly one of them. We spoiled our children. Many of us had it better than our parents did and we coddled our kids with stuff and didn’t teach them the value of hard work and a dollar earned. Also, we allowed the left to take over the education system and indoctrinate the kids with concepts that are totally alien to American history and the American experience.


  44. Storagemanager
    44 | November 29, 2012 9:29 am

    Cut through the fog, and here’s what to expect: Taxes will go up just shy of $1.2 trillion — the middle ground of what President Barack Obama wants and what Republicans say they could stomach. Entitlement programs, mainly Medicare, will be cut by no less than $400 billion — and perhaps a lot more, to get Republicans to swallow those tax hikes. There will be at least $1.2 trillion in spending cuts and “war savings.” And any final deal will come not by a group effort but in a private deal between two men: Obama and House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio). The two men had what one insider described as a short, curt conversation Wednesday night — but the private lines of communications remain very much open.

    No doubt, there will be lots of huffing and puffing before any deal can be had. And, no doubt, Obama and Congress could easily botch any or all three of the white-knuckle moments soon to hit this town: the automatic spending cuts and expiration of the Bush tax cuts, both of which kick in at the end of this year, and the federal debt limit that hits early next.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2012/11/84364.html#ixzz2Dccr0ORI


  45. Storagemanager
    45 | November 29, 2012 9:30 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:
    roosevelt said the SS would need to be reformed some time in the 60′s.
    i dont expect to see one red cent of SS. so i have to take care of myself and not rely on the govt

    the system will still crash…a lot who paid in..want the money back…we are GREECE waiting happen.


  46. Storagemanager
    46 | November 29, 2012 9:32 am

    huckfunn wrote:

    your blanket statements about Boomers “taking disability” are nasty and reek of ignorance. You wanna walk in my moccasins

    You misunderstand…I was talking numbers….of course people need and have a right….I was only talking numbers.


  47. coldwarrior
    47 | November 29, 2012 9:33 am

    Storagemanager wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    @ Storagemanager:
    roosevelt said the SS would need to be reformed some time in the 60′s.
    i dont expect to see one red cent of SS. so i have to take care of myself and not rely on the govt

    the system will still crash…a lot who paid in..want the money back…we are GREECE waiting happen.

    its ok, obamacre will cull millions of you boomers early.

    $AVING$!!!!


  48. huckfunn
    48 | November 29, 2012 9:34 am

    Storagemanager wrote:

    huckfunn wrote:

    your blanket statements about Boomers “taking disability” are nasty and reek of ignorance. You wanna walk in my moccasins

    You misunderstand…I was talking numbers….of course people need and have a right….I was only talking numbers.

    I think you were trying to reply to MacDuff as you are quoting what he said.


  49. Storagemanager
    49 | November 29, 2012 9:34 am

    @ coldwarrior:
    I know…by the way I have COPD…I will be culled.


  50. Storagemanager
    50 | November 29, 2012 9:35 am

    @ huckfunn:
    sorry


  51. huckfunn
    51 | November 29, 2012 9:35 am

    @ Storagemanager:
    No sweat. I almost said “no problem” but I hate that phrase.


  52. coldwarrior
    52 | November 29, 2012 9:36 am

    Storagemanager wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    I know…by the way I have COPD…I will be culled.

    yep.

    morphine is cheap.


  53. Storagemanager
    53 | November 29, 2012 9:36 am

    Turkish PM Threatens Ottoman TV Series

    Islamist Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has begun to threaten producers of a popular TV series about the Ottoman Empire. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/256307


  54. Storagemanager
    54 | November 29, 2012 9:39 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Storagemanager wrote:
    @ coldwarrior:
    I know…by the way I have COPD…I will be culled.

    yep.
    morphine is cheap.

    They have already been doing that for years…it is called hospice…lots drugs.. die at home.


  55. huckfunn
    55 | November 29, 2012 9:40 am

    I got a new gig starting Monday in downtown Houston. While I’m down there, I’ll do some recon work for our theoretical get together at the NRA convention in May.


  56. Storagemanager
    56 | November 29, 2012 9:46 am

    It”s funny Obama claims his mother died because she couldn’t get the medical help she needed..so..his answer is to do the same to millions more…sounds almost like revenge…

    “the best revenge is the vote ” Obama


  57. 57 | November 29, 2012 9:50 am

    Storagemanager wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    I am a boomer…I was talking numbers…we are the biggest block of people on SSI…there is no job force to replenish SSI…is about numbers.

    Look, I worked my ass off for 30 years and was constantly promoted, only to be downsized at 50. after a couple of months of looking, I found a job that required me to travel some 4-5 days a week and it paid only a third of my previous salary. As I’ve always done, I worked my ass off in an effort to make lemonade out of lemons but, alas, I found myself in the Charlotte with the beginnings of a stroke. Being the “good soldier” I always was, I struggled, but made my way to Wichita via Atlanta. By the time I arrived, I couldn’t walk or speak intelligently. After months of therapy, I thought I could work, but at 57, that’s easier said than done. All I could really do was some kind of minimum wage clerical crap, but I had and still have a lot of cognitive and other issues and I was summarily fired -- after managing a $15 million distribution facility, I couldn’t even handle answering the phones for someone half my age. Reluctantly, I applied for SSDI and was approved on the first try.

    For two years, I’ve battled a bit of guilt about getting “the government check”, but there are times when you just don’t have a choice. Whatever money I had, was eaten up keeping my house and what I had worked decades to obtain and, were it not for my wife having a decent job, I shudder to think what would have become of me.

    My point is that the “Boomers taking disability and early SSI” sounds a lot like a blanket indictment and I’m all done with the guilt trip. Like I said, anyone who wants to take a walk in my shoes is welcome to do so.


  58. Storagemanager
    58 | November 29, 2012 9:54 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    My point is that the “Boomers taking disability and early SSI” sounds a lot like a blanket indictment and I’m all done with the guilt trip. Like I said, anyone who wants to take a walk in my shoes is welcome to do so.

    Again…I was talking about the fact that boomers are a large block..and because of abortion and the deconstruction of the America family..their is not a work force to replace us…I was talking numbers only.


  59. 59 | November 29, 2012 9:55 am

    huckfunn wrote:

    Here’s where I think the boomers went wrong, and I’m certainly one of them. We spoiled our children. Many of us had it better than our parents did and we coddled our kids with stuff and didn’t teach them the value of hard work and a dollar earned. Also, we allowed the left to take over the education system and indoctrinate the kids with concepts that are totally alien to American history and the American experience.

    All true. Boomers kinda had the idea that anything they did, somehow, had never been done before, so it was special. Then again, our parents sort of got the ball rolling by spoiling us, as children.

    Prosperity does have its own pitfalls.


  60. huckfunn
    60 | November 29, 2012 9:55 am

    @ MacDuff:
    Gee, Mac. I’m sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope it’s working out for you. I wonder what I would have done if the same had happened to me in my mid-50′s.


  61. 61 | November 29, 2012 9:56 am

    Storagemanager wrote:

    Rodan wrote:
    Iron Fist wrote:
    This is much easier said than done. Having the storytellers isn’t enough. You must have the medium to get the message out. If there is one thing this past election showed, it is the power of the Legacy Media to control the narrative. From George Sheepanopolis asking his question about Birth COntrol to the “War on Women” they controlled the narrative, and the dumb broads ate it up. Sandra Fluke should have been a laughing stock, but instead she became the face of entitlement to women everywhere. It is quite distressing.
    No one said it was easy. It starts with message Discipline. If a Republican gets ask a toxic issue, just brush the question aside.
    Mr. so and so refused to answer…it must be asked…what does he have to hide?

    Be more blunt; say: That’s a stupid question. Do you want to stay on topic and be relevent, or do you want to ask more stupid questions?


  62. 62 | November 29, 2012 9:56 am

    Storagemanager wrote:

    Again…I was talking about the fact that boomers are a large block..and because of abortion and the deconstruction of the America family..their is not a work force to replace us…I was talking numbers only.

    Fair enough, I’ll accept that. It’s just a bit of a sore spot with me and if I overreacted, my apologies.


  63. huckfunn
    63 | November 29, 2012 10:02 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    Then again, our parents sort of got the ball rolling by spoiling us, as children.

    As was 1 of 9 preacher’s kids, I can promise that we were not spoiled. Most of the time we didn’t have a TV, and when we did, viewing time was severely restricted. We had rocks, trees, creeks and the great outdoors.


  64. 64 | November 29, 2012 10:02 am

    huckfunn wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    Gee, Mac. I’m sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope it’s working out for you. I wonder what I would have done if the same had happened to me in my mid-50′s.

    Hey, I’m a very lucky man, don’t be sorry, but thank you for your sentiments. There are people with far heavier crosses who bear them with far more grace than I. I’m not whining as much as I am trying to impart some wisdom at no charge …wisdom that was imparted on me pretty abruptly and at a heavy price.


  65. Storagemanager
    65 | November 29, 2012 10:03 am

    I got my CDL last year…I drove truck in my youth and then went into real estate/ property management….because I was out of trucking so long.. at 55 I am treated as a new driver…I have every endorsement..I was told to be hired I would need to go over the road for two years…starting pay .25 a mile…that is shit pay…I was paying more to live on the road then I was making….now I am looking local and finding nothing…21 years in property management went up in smoke in 08….I understand.


  66. 66 | November 29, 2012 10:07 am

    huckfunn wrote:

    MacDuff wrote:
    Then again, our parents sort of got the ball rolling by spoiling us, as children.
    As was 1 of 9 preacher’s kids, I can promise that we were not spoiled. Most of the time we didn’t have a TV, and when we did, viewing time was severely restricted. We had rocks, trees, creeks and the great outdoors.

    My brothers and sisters and I were not spoiled, but I’m afraid my 3 youngest children are. We have 10 kids but only three girls at home now and they are twin 10 year olds and an 8 year old. We are financially fairly compfortable and the girls don’t have the chores the older kids did and they are not wirnessing any struggles to make ends meet. I just hope they see how hard I work to provide the comfortable life they have.


  67. 67 | November 29, 2012 10:08 am

    huckfunn wrote:

    As was 1 of 9 preacher’s kids, I can promise that we were not spoiled. Most of the time we didn’t have a TV, and when we did, viewing time was severely restricted. We had rocks, trees, creeks and the great outdoors.

    Heh, perhaps I betrayed myself…I was an only child, raised in the suburbs in an idyllic “Leave it to Beaver-like” world. I thought I was the center of the universe -- a notion that was promptly dispelled when I joined the Navy. ;)


  68. Storagemanager
    68 | November 29, 2012 10:09 am

    John McCain doing a jig and singing a song…

    WASHINGTON — The Obama administration, hoping that the conflict in Syria has reached a turning point, is considering deeper intervention to help push President Bashar al-Assad from power, according to government officials involved in the discussions. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/29/world/us-is-weighing-stronger-action-in-syrian-conflict.html?_r=1&


  69. 69 | November 29, 2012 10:10 am

    @ huckfunn:

    Their whole platform is built on big lies. “Free healthcare, free food stamps, free phones, free housing, free education”. Their campaign against political opponents is built on big lies.

    You counteract those by exposing it as fraudulent. Conservatives don’t do that. You need catchy slogans that grab people’s attentions.

    Their campaign against political opponents is built on big lies. “Romney kills women with cancer. Romney is a felon. Romney will take away
    contraception, social security… etc.

    Romney didn’t hit back, so he did it to himself. When attack, you counter attack. It’s that simple.

    It’s pretty hard to get people to give up “free” stuff when they’re too stupid to understand that it ain’t free.

    This is where Conservatives go wrong. We need to stop the dismissive attitude of people who do not vote for us. Instead we should seek to manipulate them over to our side. The Democrats pretend to be their friends. We on the other hand attack them. Guess what? People will not listen to someone lecturing and scolding them. We need a slicker approach with people.

    I never said it was easy, but what we have been doing the last 20 years is not working.


  70. Tanker
    70 | November 29, 2012 10:11 am

    One common thing I’m seeing across the boards I read is that since the election many are starting to take comments personal. I even find myself doing this on some points (usually without commenting).

    I see people disappear for boards that have been around years!

    What gives? Do we dissolve as a like minded group with differences?


  71. RIX
    71 | November 29, 2012 10:11 am

    @ MacDuff:
    Mac, everything that you are receiving you are are entitled to.
    You have paid your dues.


  72. citizen_q
    72 | November 29, 2012 10:12 am

    Residents Alerted to Obamas’ Hawaiian Holiday Plans

    BY MALIA ZIMMERMAN -- KAILUA, OAHU -- Residents living near the beachfront homes where President Barack Obama and First Family vacation with their friends every year since 2008 were alerted on Monday to some specifics of the Obamas’ holiday vacation plans.

    The report delivered to residents living along the ocean and canal that surrounds the multi-million dollar homes at Kailuana Place where the President stays, informed them of restrictions that will be implemented for 20 days beginning December 17 and running through January 6.

    With the staff, special forces, local police presence and equipment, the President’s visit adds up annually to at least a $4 million vacation courtesy of the Hawaii and federal taxpayers.


  73. Storagemanager
    73 | November 29, 2012 10:12 am

    Italy will support a United Nations resolution on Thursday giving Palestine the status of a “non-member state”, officials said.

    A government statement said the move was in line with Italy’s support for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-4313479,00.html


  74. coldwarrior
    74 | November 29, 2012 10:14 am

    @ Tanker:

    purity test fail.


  75. 75 | November 29, 2012 10:14 am

    Storagemanager wrote:

    I got my CDL last year…I drove truck in my youth and then went into real estate/ property management….because I was out of trucking so long.. at 55 I am treated as a new driver…I have every endorsement..I was told to be hired I would need to go over the road for two years…starting pay .25 a mile…that is shit pay…I was paying more to live on the road then I was making….now I am looking local and finding nothing…21 years in property management went up in smoke in 08….I understand.

    Like I said, my apologies for overreacting. It appears that you do, indeed, understand.

    I shouldn’t have turned this thread into a bitch session……………


  76. taxfreekiller
    76 | November 29, 2012 10:14 am

    There is a counter culture already set up, running and doing just fine.

    Its called Texas.

    Come on down.


  77. 77 | November 29, 2012 10:14 am

    @ MacDuff:

    You know what I think the problem is. Too many on the Right makes excuses. Instead of admitting the Left is better at getting their message across, many on our side come up with excuses and then lash out at people who didn’t vote for us.

    This where Libertarians have an advantage. We tend not to be judgmental and seek to win converts. Many Conservatives are introverts and instead condemn society for not believing in their way. That is why I think Libertarians will be more successful in the push back against the Left. We accept teh world is not perfect and are not afraid of it. Conservatives feel the world should be perfect and therefore something is wrong that it isn’t.


  78. Storagemanager
    78 | November 29, 2012 10:15 am

    @ MacDuff:
    I never took it that way…and..you did indeed earn everything you have.


  79. 79 | November 29, 2012 10:16 am

    @ Storagemanager:

    The Israelis should back this. That way the Palis have responsibility as a state.


  80. 80 | November 29, 2012 10:17 am

    taxfreekiller wrote:

    There is a counter culture already set up, running and doing just fine.
    Its called Texas.
    Come on down.

    Long live the Republic of Texas!

    :lol:


  81. 81 | November 29, 2012 10:17 am

    Tanker wrote:

    One common thing I’m seeing across the boards I read is that since the election many are starting to take comments personal. I even find myself doing this on some points (usually without commenting).

    I see people disappear for boards that have been around years!

    What gives? Do we dissolve as a like minded group with differences?

    The problem with the traditional Republican Quadrennial Circular Firing Squad is that it does render heavy casualties.


  82. Storagemanager
    82 | November 29, 2012 10:17 am

    Obama sez let them eat cake

    Report: Obama Scheduled To Go On Hawaiian Vacation Day Country Would Go Over Fiscal Cliff… http://weaselzippers.us/


  83. citizen_q
    83 | November 29, 2012 10:19 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:
    The Israelis should back this. That way the Palis have responsibility as a state.

    Muslims never take or are held to be responsible on anything they do from what I see.


  84. Storagemanager
    84 | November 29, 2012 10:21 am

    Hostess was only the first

    Larry Summers, chair of the White House National Economic Council when the 2009 stimulus was developed, suggested that President Obama will eventually tax and regulate junk food to drive people to eat more healthily — although he dinged First Lady Michelle Obama’s healthy foods initiative.

    “I think there is no question that the way Americans eat and what Americans weigh is a big contributor to health problems and it’s a big contributor to health costs,” Summers said on Morning Joe today.It’s not the agenda now, but I think at some point you’re going to see tax measures and regulatory measures that are going to be directed at helping people be healthier. That’s just going to happen and I think it’s probably a good thing when it does.”

    Summers this agenda to anti-cigarette policies. “[J]ust as we have over time done things with respect to tobacco that are very constructive and that are saving hundreds of thousands of people’s lives, that kind of agenda is going to come to other aspects of public health, including the way people eat,” he said.

    Curiously, though, Summers took an oblique shot at the results of Mrs. Obama’s overhaul of the school lunch menu as part of her effort to fight child obesity.

    “Should kids be going hungry at lunch because they can’t have any good food — any food they like in the schools?” he asked rhetorically. “You can obviously take it too far and you have to be careful.”
    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/


  85. taxfreekiller
    85 | November 29, 2012 10:25 am

    So, O/hole goes back to smoking dope on the beach Dec. 17, so that gives the two party evil money cult 12 working days (lets pretend they work) to solve 80 years of criminal operations via kick backs and fraud.

    Good bet they fail says me.

    Buy gold coins.

    Learn to fish, hunt, and raise your own food.


  86. 86 | November 29, 2012 10:28 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    You know what I think the problem is. Too many on the Right makes excuses. Instead of admitting the Left is better at getting their message across, many on our side come up with excuses and then lash out at people who didn’t vote for us.

    This where Libertarians have an advantage. We tend not to be judgmental and seek to win converts. Many Conservatives are introverts and instead condemn society for not believing in their way. That is why I think Libertarians will be more successful in the push back against the Left. We accept teh world is not perfect and are not afraid of it. Conservatives feel the world should be perfect and therefore something is wrong that it isn’t.

    I think you’re onto something. A good example is pot. I hear these conservative commentators acting as though you’re advocating the literal destruction of society! Geez, do they not realize that a substantial number of normal middle-class people, people who go to work every day, pay their taxes and raise their kids actually get together with friends and burn a doobie? Pot is about as mainstream as it gets.

    The Democrats are not only showing their authoritarian colors, they’re proudly flying them!


  87. 87 | November 29, 2012 10:29 am

    Rodan wrote:

    That is why I think Libertarians will be more successful in the push back against the Left.

    Elect some congressmen before you say that. I’m still not seeing where the Libertarians have elected anybody. You point to Rand Paul and say “He’s a Libertarian”, but he is a solid Republican conservative. He did not run, and probably wouldn’t have won if he did, as a straight Libertarian.


  88. taxfreekiller
    88 | November 29, 2012 10:32 am

    O/hole is very good rabbit boss, Pres. and leader not so much.


  89. taxfreekiller
    89 | November 29, 2012 10:33 am

    Libertarians smoke dope and want others to get high on the smell.


  90. The Osprey
    90 | November 29, 2012 10:34 am

    taxfreekiller wrote:

    There is a counter culture already set up, running and doing just fine.

    Its called Texas.

    Come on down.

    +1


  91. 91 | November 29, 2012 10:35 am

    Rodan wrote:

    This where Libertarians have an advantage. We tend not to be judgmental and seek to win converts. Many Conservatives are introverts and instead condemn society for not believing in their way. That is why I think Libertarians will be more successful in the push back against the Left. We accept teh world is not perfect and are not afraid of it. Conservatives feel the world should be perfect and therefore something is wrong that it isn’t.

    Simply put, Right-of-center libertarianism satisfies much of traditional Republican tenets, without the scolding of SoCons.


  92. taxfreekiller
    92 | November 29, 2012 10:35 am

    Choice:

    Civil Society and the rule of law.

    Any thing goes and will given time.


  93. 93 | November 29, 2012 10:38 am

    @ citizen_q:

    I am saying this for mischievous reasons. The Palis are a state, therefore any acts against Israel are viewed in a state to state view. I am being Machiavellian!


  94. taxfreekiller
    94 | November 29, 2012 10:38 am

    Ron Paul is a Libitarian Party leader.

    Enough said on that way to go.

    Fact is the Democrats would do better than Libitarians, they the commie Democrats will not serve but at least will send the conservative kids in the Army out to defend commie Democrats ability to tax and spend the county into poverty.


  95. 95 | November 29, 2012 10:41 am

    taxfreekiller wrote:

    Ron Paul is a Libitarian Party leader.

    Enough said on that way to go.

    Fact is the Democrats would do better than Libitarians, they the commie Democrats will not serve but at least will send the conservative kids in the Army out to defend commie Democrats ability to tax and spend the county into poverty.

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m not speaking as much of “Libertarian” as a party as much as “libertarianism” as a philosophy.


  96. citizen_q
    96 | November 29, 2012 10:41 am

    @ Rodan:
    Gotcha!


  97. 97 | November 29, 2012 10:46 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Rand Paul is a Libertarian-Conservative Republican. Not a Anarcho-Capitalist Black Helicopter UFO Illuminati Conspiracy loon Libertarian . Here is how he views himself in this interview.

    Using the Libertarian-Conservative outlook could be a way to start chiping off elements of people who do not vote for us. We should be seen as against the system, not the system. I never said any of this is easy. But we have to start somewhere.


  98. 98 | November 29, 2012 10:48 am

    @ taxfreekiller:

    No one is talking about Paulian Libertarianism. We are talking about Libertarian-Conservatism. A live and let live Conservatism.


  99. 99 | November 29, 2012 10:49 am

    @ MacDuff:

    “Libertarian” as a party as much as “libertarianism” as a philosophy.

    That is what I am referring to. A Libertarian-Conservative philosophy. Not the wacky UFO/Illuminati Ron Paul type.


  100. 100 | November 29, 2012 10:51 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Yup, that is what I am talking about. We need to appear more like Rand Paul, Marco Rubio, Pat Toomey as opposed to Rick Santorum, Todd Akins and Mike Huckabee.


  101. Storagemanager
    101 | November 29, 2012 10:51 am

    Republican Senators File Amendment To Cut Off U.N. Funding If They Vote To Recognize Palestinians As A State… http://weaselzippers.us/


  102. 102 | November 29, 2012 10:55 am

    Personally, If anyone thinks that we’re going to sell “conservatism”, as it’s currently constituted, to the contemporary electorate, they’re dreaming. This ain’t 1980 and Reagan simply couldn’t have beaten Obama in ’08 or in ’12. You either evolve with the times, or the times roll over you.

    At 59, I’m one of the oldest members here and if I can see it, anyone can.


  103. coldwarrior
    103 | November 29, 2012 10:57 am

    @ Rodan:

    the more i see from the current leaders on the so called ‘right’, the more i get in tune with my inner barry goldwater.


  104. coldwarrior
    104 | November 29, 2012 11:01 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    Personally, If anyone thinks that we’re going to sell “conservatism”, as it’s currently constituted, to the contemporary electorate, they’re dreaming. This ain’t 1980 and Reagan simply couldn’t have beaten Obama in ’08 or in ’12. You either evolve with the times, or the times roll over you.
    At 59, I’m one of the oldest members here and if I can see it, anyone can.

    yep.

    because conservatism isnt as hip as it was in the 80′s. nor does conservatism look anything like it did back then.


  105. buzzsawmonkey
    105 | November 29, 2012 11:01 am

    RIX wrote:

    Senator Durbin is clueless.
    He claims that with the Iraq War over & Afghanistan winding
    down, we should have new revenues to spend.

    I saw something yesterday which we would all do well to bear in mind: the entire cost of both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, from 2001 to the present, is barely equal to the deficit that Barack Obama has run up in any single year he has been president.


  106. 106 | November 29, 2012 11:02 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ Rodan:

    the more i see from the current leaders on the so called ‘right’, the more i get in tune with my inner barry goldwater.

    I feel Barry was a man far ahead of his time. It may be time for a re-reading of “The Conscience of a Conservative” to see how well it holds up.


  107. coldwarrior
    107 | November 29, 2012 11:05 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    @ Rodan:
    the more i see from the current leaders on the so called ‘right’, the more i get in tune with my inner barry goldwater.

    I feel Barry was a man far ahead of his time. It may be time for a re-reading of “The Conscience of a Conservative” to see how well it holds up.

    personal liberty, states rights, and small govt.

    count me in!


  108. 108 | November 29, 2012 11:06 am

    New Thread.


  109. 109 | November 29, 2012 11:08 am

    @ MacDuff:
    @ coldwarrior:

    Barry Goldwater would have wiped the floor with Obama.


  110. 110 | November 29, 2012 11:09 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    I saw something yesterday which we would all do well to bear in mind: the entire cost of both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, from 2001 to the present, is barely equal to the deficit that Barack Obama has run up in any single year he has been president.

    That’s a pretty breathtaking stat. Considering the fundamental and Constitutional importance of defense, not to mention it’s ever-impressive scope, it’s a disproportionately small slice of the pie. We should get as much “bang for the buck” from the rest of our budget!


  111. 111 | November 29, 2012 11:10 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    personal liberty, states rights, and small govt.

    Hmm, sound a tad libertarian to me….


  112. taxfreekiller
    112 | November 29, 2012 11:12 am

    Ted Curz


  113. lobo91
    113 | November 29, 2012 11:12 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    I saw something yesterday which we would all do well to bear in mind: the entire cost of both the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, from 2001 to the present, is barely equal to the deficit that Barack Obama has run up in any single year he has been president.

    While that’s true, it has little to do with the debate in Washington. The received narrative is that the economy was great when Bush took office, then he started two wars and cut taxes at the same time, which caused the housing crash and the associated recession.

    That’s their story and they’re sticking to it. Facts are irrelevant.


  114. taxfreekiller
    114 | November 29, 2012 11:13 am

    Ted Cruz

    crap fingers,
    doing this on
    the tractor
    putting out
    round bails@ taxfreekiller:


  115. buzzsawmonkey
    115 | November 29, 2012 11:13 am

    @ MacDuff:
    @ lobo91:

    I just think people should be aware of that. I wasn’t—and I intend to point it out to my proggie friends, not that I expect it to do any good.


  116. lobo91
    116 | November 29, 2012 11:14 am

    @ MacDuff:

    That’s a pretty breathtaking stat.

    The really breathtaking part is when you consider that Obama has borrowed 4 times that much since taking office with so little to show for it.


  117. taxfreekiller
    117 | November 29, 2012 11:16 am

    If the House,Senate and Pres. do not extend the deal that keeps a borrower from a “taxable income” from a short sale where some of the principle is forgiven, then the real estate market will take a hit hard. More bankruptcies and foreclosures on the market driving home prices back down once more.

    The clowns in D.C. have no clue, they are imune to the sickness they spread to U.S..


  118. lobo91
    118 | November 29, 2012 11:17 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    @ lobo91:

    I just think people should be aware of that. I wasn’t—and I intend to point it out to my proggie friends, not that I expect it to do any good.

    They really seem to be immune to facts, or even basic logic.

    I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me how the fact that Bush borrowed $500 billion a year forces Obama to borrow $1 trillion a year to “fix” things.

    That makes absolutely no sense, yet it’s precisely the message put out by the Democrats.


  119. bluliner10
    119 | November 29, 2012 11:27 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Absolutely. While he still spent against the deficit, the combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan (and elsewhere) did very little to add to the debt.


  120. buzzsawmonkey
    120 | November 29, 2012 11:33 am

    Roger Simon, over at PJM, has a discussion about “social conservatism”—largely as it relates to same-sex marriage. It is worth reading, though I disagree with him in part. I have taken his article as an excuse to post a few things regarding same-sex marriage and the gay-rights movement, which I am taking the liberty of reproducing here; the comment appears there as #42:

    1) The gay-rights movement was Communist-founded; it was a socially-subversive effort from the get-go. That’s the old post-WWII “homophile rights movement” of the Mattachine Society and the Daughters of Bilitis.

    2) The “modern gay-rights movement”—i.e., the radical movement which supplanted the more staid “homophile rights” organizations following the Stonewall riot—was founded by New Left SDSers and Maoists. Their openly-stated goal was to destroy heterosexual marriage.

    3) Nobody has ever publicly called the current gay-rights movement on this foundational principle, nor asked why “marriage” went from must-destroy to must-have.

    4) The objective of those early post-Stonewall radical organizations was to destroy what is now called “heteronormativity,” though they did not yet use that term. The term, however, is the common currency of “Queer Studies” and “Gender Studies” courses in most colleges and universities. In short, while the gay-rights movement is demanding “marriage” in the public political arena, it is busily working on campuses to destroy the concept of “heteronormativity.” The public demand for “marriage” is masking the hide-in-plain-sight social subversion which was the original goal of the radical groups.

    5) The gay-rights movement is aimed at completely gutting/destroying First Amendment protections of free speech, free association, and religious freedom. It is the gay-rights movement that has consistently pushed the concept of “hate speech,” which is aimed at making political disagreement—i.e., open discussion of issues—impossible by dismissing contravening views as “hate,” which makes it unnecessary to engage and respond to disagreement. Because traditional religion teaches disapproval of homosexual behavior, it is considered “hate speech”; once “marriage” is extended to same-sex couples, notwithstanding the First Amendment we will see lawsuits against traditional religious entities for engaging in “hate speech” (as has already happened in Europe), and on “equal protection” grounds if a traditional religious entity declines to perform a same-sex marriage. We have already seen, in this country, lawsuits by gay-rights activists against private businesses on equal protection grounds for refusing to provide floral arrangements, catering facilities, or bed-and-breakfast accommodations to same-sex wedding parties.

    6) The gay-rights movement is about power, social control, and societal approval—not about obtaining legal protections as its spokespeople allege. California already had a comprehensive domestic-partnership law which provided the “marriage protections” which are the movement’s alleged objective—but the movement insisted on pushing for marriage anyway; Prop 8 was the result. Most people of good will, whatever their opinion of homosexual behavior, are prepared to extend domestic partnership protection to same-sex couples; it is, however, right and proper that a movement which has spent forty years in insisting on its members’ distinctiveness from the general society should, if it does receive the recognition/protection it wants, get a distinct form of protection instead of hermit-crabbing its way into “marriage.”

    7) The gay-rights lobby makes its case for “marriage equality” on the basis of a completely bogus equation between same-sex unions and the abolition of anti-miscegenation laws during the Civil Rights Movement. Laws prohibiting interracial marriages, however, invalidated otherwise-valid marriages on the basis of the extraneous element of race; same-sex marriage is a completely new legal arrangement. The two are not comparable. The gay-rights movement has been attempting for forty years to hermit-crab its way into the shell of the old Civil Rights Movement.

    8) The gay-rights movement is a “human rights” movement, not a civil rights movement. Civil rights, as protected in the Bill of Rights, are rights held against the government; the right to slap the government down if it engages in unreasonable interference in personal liberty. “Human rights” are the seeking of special privileges from the government for a favored group, whether that group is seeking affirmative action and set-asides or same-sex marriage. The gay-rights movement has been using “human rights” in its language since at least 1977, and attempted, with far too much success, to corrupt the political language so as to make the special-interest “gimmes” of human rights seem co-equal with the anti-government protections of civil rights. This corruption of political language can also be seen in the way the gay-rights movement has equated verbal political disagreement with physical violence: “gay-baiting,” a term derived from red-baiting (and an early form of dismissing disagreement as “hate speech”) has, for years, been referred to as “gay-bashing.” Gay-bashing, i.e. physical attack, usually by gangs of youths, on persons perceived as homosexual, is a genuine if intermittent phenomenon—but using the term to denote oral disagreement with political objectives, as the gay-rights movement does, is a fundamental dishonesty. Likewise, the movement’s pursuit of “human-rights” special privileges should not be mistaken for civil rights agitation.


  121. Speranza
    121 | November 29, 2012 11:54 am

    You don’t win over voters by showing disdain for them.


  122. buzzsawmonkey
    122 | November 29, 2012 11:55 am

    Speranza wrote:

    You don’t win over voters by showing disdain for them.

    Meaning?


  123. Speranza
    123 | November 29, 2012 11:56 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    I always hear that “if we just ran a real conservative, we’d win”.

    And I really do not know what their definition of a “real conservative” is. Who? Michele Bachmann??


  124. Speranza
    124 | November 29, 2012 11:58 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    You don’t win over voters by showing disdain for them.

    Meaning?

    I am sick of the putting down of young people, single women, people who like different music, movies, television, and people who enjoy sex!

    We are conservatives -- we work hard, we play hard, and we love to get laid!


  125. buzzsawmonkey
    125 | November 29, 2012 12:01 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    I am sick of the putting down yof oung people, single women, people who like different music, movies, television, and people who enjoy sex!

    We are conservatives — we work hard, we play hard, and we love to get laid!

    Who’s doing that which you are sick of? I’m trying to find your starting point for this.


  126. 126 | November 29, 2012 12:01 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Well said!


  127. Speranza
    127 | November 29, 2012 12:06 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Well said!

    Heh!
    And we all so not like to go to church/synagogue either, and we all do not eat at the same time with the rest of the family. We are individualists. And I LIKE THE ROLLINGS STONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  128. buzzsawmonkey
    128 | November 29, 2012 12:07 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    And I LIKE THE ROLLINGS STONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Given their age, they’re changing their name to “The Rolling Kidney Stones.”


  129. 129 | November 29, 2012 12:09 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    And I really do not know what their definition of a “real conservative” is. Who? Michele Bachmann??

    It depends on who’s administering the purity test, it’s like a goddamed inquisition. Like the “Norquist Pledge”, really? Who the f**k is Grover Norquist to be having people sign pledges?

    F**k Norquist.


  130. 130 | November 29, 2012 12:14 pm

    The “Conservative Inquisition” is every bit as annoying as the “Republican Establishment”. F**k ‘em both and the horses they rode in on!


  131. buzzsawmonkey
    131 | November 29, 2012 12:18 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Like the “Norquist Pledge”, really? Who the f**k is Grover Norquist to be having people sign pledges?

    Washington is Sesame Street. There’s a turf war between Grover and the Entitlement Cookie Monster, and Obama’s flipping everyone the Big Bird.


  132. Speranza
    132 | November 29, 2012 12:59 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    And I LIKE THE ROLLINGS STONES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Given their age, they’re changing their name to “The Rolling Kidney Stones.”

    Too true.


  133. Speranza
    133 | November 29, 2012 1:01 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    And I really do not know what their definiton of a “real conservative” is. Who? Michele Bachmann??

    It depends on who’s administering the purity test, it’s like a goddamed inquisition. Like the “Norquist Pledge”, really? Who the f**k is Grover Norquist to be having people sign pledges?
    F**k Norquist.

    Grover Norquist is a self appointed watchdog of the conservative legacy (and the head worshiper-in-chief of Ronald Reagan). He should be told to piss off.


  134. darkwords
    134 | November 29, 2012 2:42 pm

    @ 57 MacDuff: you should take the assistance. IF you want to give back, support patriotism, small government, and smarter health.
    We live longer. HAve more mental jobs. NO one kills us young if we are disabled like they would in pakistan. Conservatives should embrace safety nets for the young, the old, and the sick and disabled.

    In the institutional big world it is easy to acquire a mental disability. The future of society will be restructuring itself so that the risk is spread out and the whole population chips in and helps them out.

    A libertarian would say no way. Be on your own, bear all the pain by yourself. A christian is like that with themselves but not with other people.

    I joined the libertarian movement here but won’t vote for auditing the fed or for a libertarian POTUS. They are batshit crazy in those areas.


  135. darkwords
    135 | November 29, 2012 2:44 pm

    @ 127 Speranza: I can’t get no satisfaction


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