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Please, Let’s Identify The Real Fight

by Flyovercountry ( 104 Comments › )
Filed under Politics at November 29th, 2012 - 11:00 am

Political Cartoons by Glenn Foden

Once again, we find ourselves in that all too familiar territory, having reached that old smelly can we’d previously kicked down the road. Each time we reach it, it smells just a little worse, and each time we kick it, it travels a shorter distance. The last time this can was kicked, our national leaders promised that we would end this self destructive game, once and for all, if we only looked the other way while they collectively shirked their responsibility. Wild cuts in spending are scheduled to take place, as well as an increase in tax rates that will take us back to those rates paid during the 1990′s. All in all, hysteria aside, this is something or nation needs, and would be an overall positive thing for our economy. The problem of course is that we’ll not see it, at least not in a lasting form.

What we will see, sometime in January would be my guess, will be an agreement whereby once again those tax rates will go up immediately, for increased spending today, followed by wildly optimistic cuts which will be scheduled to occur 8 to 10 years from now, but will never actually occur. It will be heralded as a bipartisan compromise that will save the taxpayers Trillions of dollars, even though the magic of base line budgeting will allow a net increase in spending to be reported to us poor saps as a, “cut.”

There are so many fallacies in this scenario, that unfortunately I believe whole heartedly will take place exactly as I’ve described, that I do not know where to begin. First, we are still waiting for the budget cuts agreed upon in the 1982 Ronald Reagan budget deal to actually happen. Maybe if we get those, I’ll be a believer. The problem is however, that we have had that particular dance more than a few times since 1982, with the GOP being promised to have spending reigned in at some agreed upon future date, while accepting an increase in taxation rates immediately, and then watching that agreed upon date come and go with nary a cut in anything. How many times will we agree to having Lucy Van Pelt hold the football for us before we get wise to the gag? My guess is that this year won’t be that year.

Tax rates are meaningless when discussing the concept of what our taxes are. Government spending is equal to taxation. If our tax rates deliver $1.1 Trillion less in revenue than what our government spends, we have not saved anything. Those taxes will merely be paid, by us, in some other form. After all, I have not seen anyone willing to make up this difference out of some form of benevolence. There is no Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, or Genie being rubbed out of a lamp who will be taking up this slack. Listen to me when I tell you, accepting increases in the taxation rates should be acceptable, provided they are coupled with sharp decreases in spending on everything but defense which would start immediately. Since our real taxation is represented by what is spent, this would be the same thing as a tax cut, even if it won’t be labeled as such, and would have the same effect on our economy as a tax cut as well. Conversely, if I hold your tax rates the same, but force you to spend more for gasoline, groceries, or acne medication, you may very well perceive it as not having your taxes raised, but the effects on our wallet and our economy will be just as devastating.

Then there’s this little fallacy, which may be my favorite of all. The idea that raising tax rates, on any group, will increase federal revenues has been disproven throughout history, and was even called out as being foolish by Maynard Keynes himself. How many times must we pull out the Laffer Curve to combat this idiocy? Raising rates has not ever resulted in an increase in revenue, but sharp decreases have been the result instead. This has been the case, each and every time, in each and every society, anywhere or any time it has been tried. Conversely, decreases in tax rates has always resulted in large tangible increases in revenue raised. Not just once in a while, but anywhere, at any time in history, this has been the case. Yet here we are in 2012, and the political rhetoric is given to us with the same fallacious assumption, as if it were true, and as if it weren’t the opposite of every historical precedent that we can use as a reference throughout the entirety of recorded history.

With all of this in mind, please also realize, before you eviscerate John Boehner, that the Republicans control one half of one third of our Government. To be precise, the Republicans control the House only, and in the end, controlling only the Chamber of Congress known incidentally as the lower chamber is not a position of strength. There will be some capitulation that occurs in January or February on this entire budget deal. The question is, what will they hold out for. If you believe that keeping tax rates where they are is the big victory that we should seek, I would submit that you need to go back and read up on your economics lessons. Tax rates will be what they will be, but the true form of taxation that we really pay is entirely represented by a government’s spending. That’s the victory we should be seeking.

I am not saying that John Boehner and the House Republicans should not be held accountable for what happens next, only that they should be held accountable for the real prize, which is getting out of control spending under control. If they fail on that front, then let’s eviscerate them. After all, government spending is constitutionally within the House’s purview.

Cross Posted from Musings of a Mad Conservative.

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104 Responses to “Please, Let’s Identify The Real Fight”
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  1. 1 | November 29, 2012 11:04 am

    The GOP needs to grow a spine and tell Obama and his little criminal enterprise, including the Congressional Democrats, that they will not entertain any tax rate hikes unless and until a spending reduction plan is presented. No more of this “we’ll let you know.” Then, for all that’s holy, carry the damn message on the media -- if you’re asked why you want the spending plan first, tell them -- they pulled this crap with Reagan, they pulled it with Bush 41 -- give us a tax hike and we’ll cut spending. They got the tax hike. They never cut spending.

    You know, like when they told Reagan that if he approved amnesty, they’d close the border. That worked out real well.


  2. heysoos
    2 | November 29, 2012 11:11 am

    sure are alot of smart people around here (mot me)…good writers and thinkers, and another excellent post


  3. 3 | November 29, 2012 11:12 am

    @ heysoos:

    Don’t sell yourself short, amigo. I think you could do a great topic thread yourself.


  4. 4 | November 29, 2012 11:13 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    I agree, none of this 10 year out type of cuts. We need cuts now.


  5. 5 | November 29, 2012 11:14 am

    @ heysoos:

    Hey check out the previous post. It’s up your alley! :wink:


  6. heysoos
    6 | November 29, 2012 11:18 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Don’t sell yourself short, amigo. I think you could do a great topic thread yourself.

    probably, but I prefer to lurk mostly…I’m a practical guy and solution oriented…this site is less a constant bitchfest, and more about solving problems…I do like to bitch a bit tho…arrggg!


  7. heysoos
    7 | November 29, 2012 11:19 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Hey check out the previous post. It’s up your alley!

    already surfed it over….lots of good comments as usual


  8. 8 | November 29, 2012 11:21 am

    @ heysoos:

    this site is less a constant bitchfest, and more about solving problems

    That is what we are trying to move it towards. Bitching and complaining is not solving anything. What we need to do is come up with solutions and tactics to defeat the Progressives.


  9. 9 | November 29, 2012 11:22 am

    @ heysoos:

    I think the battle for the soul of the Right has begun. I see it on other blogs and many political commentators.


  10. 10 | November 29, 2012 11:30 am

    @ heysoos:

    I let my more sinister side play over at Weasel Zippers and the Diary of Daeadalus. On, and Twitter. I’m get a lot of incoming from the libturds over at Twitter.


  11. 11 | November 29, 2012 11:33 am

    @ heysoos:

    For what it’s worth, my first “post” here, such as it was, was my love letter of farewell to a pasty-faced blogger. Now I aspire to being Jim Rome on Sunday morning (except when I have no computer like last week…..[hangs head in shame]).


  12. Storagemanager
    12 | November 29, 2012 11:34 am

    A Jewish woman was murdered Monday in Iran by Muslim extremists intent on taking away her home. The brutal killing took place in the city of Isfahan, today home to fewer than 100 Jewish families, and one of the cities where a nuclear reactor is located.

    According to the woman’s family, a mosque has been under construction near the home, Voice of Israel government radio reported. Its worshipers demanded that the family vacate their house in order to expand the mosque building.

    Instead, 57-year-old Tuba N., the owner of the property, filed a complaint about the demands. For years, her Muslim neighbors had harassed her family, hoping to drive them away and confiscate the property, the Times of Israel also reported.

    This past Monday while her husband was in Tehran on another matter, thugs came to the home, tied up the woman’s two sisters who were living there as well, and stabbed Tuba to death.

    Iranian government authorities reportedly confiscated the woman’s dismembered body and have not returned it to the family.

    Journalists have been unable to verify the report.

    The event has caused much fear and consternation in the remnants of the ancient Jewish community that still is left in Iran, once known as Persia. The current Iranian government census reports there are 8,756 Jews left in the country. In 2009, there were 25,000 Jews across the country; in Isfahan, Iran’s third-largest city, there were 1,200.
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162673


  13. 13 | November 29, 2012 11:34 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    I let my more sinister side play over at Weasel Zippers and the Diary of Daeadalus. On, and Twitter. I’m get a lot of incoming from the libturds over at Twitter.

    You see Charles allows a post calling for genocide against China? That’s just so despicable.


  14. Storagemanager
    14 | November 29, 2012 11:38 am

    Rand Paul just now on Beck…I am feeling lonely..my fellow R’s want to give up and join the Demorats.


  15. Storagemanager
    15 | November 29, 2012 11:39 am

    Breaking news

    FORMER PRESIDENT GEORGE H.W. BUSH ADMITTED TO METHODIST HOSPITAL IN HOUSTON http://www.foxnews.com/


  16. Storagemanager
    16 | November 29, 2012 11:42 am

    Rand Paul on Beck…the President is willing to go off the cliff to win the game.


  17. 17 | November 29, 2012 11:43 am

    Once again, this topic beautifully dovetails with the last.

    We need to figure out who we are, what’s important to us, and what we believe in. If our answer is anything like “Reagan conservatives”, well, the discussion is futile. Stick a fork in us, we’re done.

    1980 was more than half my lifetime ago and, while many of Reagan’s truths are eternal, the sad truth is that he couldn’t have won in ’08 or ’12 and anyone who thinks that “conservatism”, as currently constituted, can be sold to the contemporary electorate is deluded -- we might as well be offering it on 5.25″ floppy disks. Conservatism has weathered a roll-in-the-hay with the likes of Buchanan, Santorum, Huckabee, O’Donnell and Akins (just to name a few) and it needs a makeover, not to mention a considerable period of rebranding. Yeah, Reagan was a major force in late 20th Century politics but then again, Knute Rockne was once a major force in college football. Times change and we need to change with them.

    Simply put, Democrats have, predictably, positioned themselves as the new authoritarians. Libertarianism (small “L”) is the diametric opposite of authoritarianism, and it’s in keeping with basic Republican tenets.

    Opportunity is knocking.


  18. 18 | November 29, 2012 11:43 am

    @ Storagemanager:

    I love it:

    Before election: Vote for us to stop Obama!
    After election: Sorry, nothing we can do, really.


  19. coldwarrior
    19 | November 29, 2012 11:48 am

    @ MacDuff:

    like i said in the last post. the more i see of the current gop, its leadership, and the so called leaders of he ‘right’ the more i get in tune with my inner goldwater.

    personal liberty, states rights, and small fedgov.

    so, i’m more libertarian than republican, hence my tea party affiliation because those three things above fit nicely with my fiscon attitude.


  20. buzzsawmonkey
    20 | November 29, 2012 11:49 am

    Trust me to get to the last thread when everybody’s movin’ down the line.

    Nevertheless, there are some handy-dandy capsule points on same-sex marriage at #120 on the prior thread that may interest some people.


  21. 21 | November 29, 2012 11:49 am

    You will never get real spending cuts. Never. Not until our creditors get tired of loaning us money.


  22. Storagemanager
    22 | November 29, 2012 11:50 am

    Obama went to Europe?

    R

    esidents of the western Serbian village of Zarozje reportedly received a unique public health warning recently, when the town’s mayor cautioned that a vampire was on the loose. That is not a joke, and the people of Zarozje are taking heed and stocking up on garlic bulbs and crosses
    http://theweek.com/article/index/237005/the-serbian-village-thats-warning-of-a-vampire-on-the-loose


  23. 23 | November 29, 2012 11:50 am

    Rodan wrote:

    I think the battle for the soul of the Right has begun. I see it on other blogs and many political commentators.

    And I think this site is contributing a lot. The last few days have produced as much high-quality and provocative debate as I’ve ever seen here. I’ve had my gripes here, but the admins and those writing these posts should take a bow.


  24. MikeA
    24 | November 29, 2012 11:53 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    That is so true. No one will give up ANY spending cuts. Especially where it counts. They could cut Defense to ZERO and it wouldn’t make a diff.


  25. buzzsawmonkey
    25 | November 29, 2012 11:54 am

    Since we’re talking spending here, I will reiterate what I mentioned on the last thread in that regard: the entire cost of both the war in Afghanistan and the war in Iraq, from their inception in 2001 until the present, barely equals the deficit that Obama has run up in the course of any one year he has been in office.


  26. heysoos
    26 | November 29, 2012 11:55 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    You will never get real spending cuts. Never. Not until our creditors get tired of loaning us money.

    maybe it’s time for the GOP to make a deal with China, instead of the donks


  27. MikeA
    27 | November 29, 2012 11:57 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Wow… I will have to remember that the next time my lib neighbor talks to me about the cost of the war.


  28. Storagemanager
    28 | November 29, 2012 11:59 am

    The Obama toilet bowl…yes that’s right…your very own bowl with a pic of Obama at the bottom…feel like Obama chit on you?…well…chit on him.


  29. 29 | November 29, 2012 11:59 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Conservatism has weathered a roll-in-the-hay with the likes of Buchanan, Santorum, Huckabee, O’Donnell and Akins (just to name a few) and it needs a makeover, not to mention a considerable period of rebrand

    ing.

    Bingo. No one thinks of Rubio, Rand Paul or Pat Toomey when you say Conservative. We really need to re-brand and put out newer faces.


  30. 30 | November 29, 2012 12:01 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    You will never get real spending cuts. Never. Not until our creditors get tired of loaning us money.

    Totally agree. It’s all smoke and mirrors.

    Check out this great VDH article.


  31. 31 | November 29, 2012 12:02 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    That is a debt ceiling that really is a debt ceiling, and probably, we would all be better off were that reached sooner rather than later.


  32. Storagemanager
    32 | November 29, 2012 12:03 pm

    Coming soon to America..thanks to Obamacare

    Now sick babies go on death pathway: Doctor’s haunting testimony reveals how children are put on end-of-life plan

    •Practice of withdrawing food and fluid by tube being used on young patients
    •Doctor admits starving and dehydrating ten babies to death in neonatal unit
    •Liverpool Care Pathway subject of independent inquiry ordered by ministers
    •Investigation, including child patients, will look at whether cash payments to hospitals to hit death pathway targets have influenced doctors’ decisions
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2240075/Now-sick-babies-death-pathway-Doctors-haunting-testimony-reveals-children-end-life-plan.html


  33. RIX
    33 | November 29, 2012 12:03 pm

    Romney is now sitting down to lunch with Obama
    at the White House.
    I know that it would have been bad form not to accept,
    but it has to be galling to visit the man who ran a smear
    campaign against you.


  34. Storagemanager
    34 | November 29, 2012 12:06 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Romney is now sitting down to lunch with Obama
    at the White House.
    I know that it would have been bad form not to accept,
    but it has to be galling to visit the man who ran a smear
    campaign against you.

    If they come out arm in arm…and talk about healing the nation and finding common ground on jobs and taxes ..I am gona stroke out.


  35. buzzsawmonkey
    35 | November 29, 2012 12:09 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Romney is now sitting down to lunch with Obama
    at the White House.
    I know that it would have been bad form not to accept,
    but it has to be galling to visit the man who ran a smear
    campaign against you.

    If they have grapefruit for an appetizer, I hope Romney has a James Cagney moment.


  36. Storagemanager
    36 | November 29, 2012 12:12 pm

    What a man looks like when he lets his balls be cut off…

    JTA) — Stevie Wonder is set to pull out of a performance at a fundraiser for the Israel Defense Forces, a source told JTA.

    Wonder’s representatives will claim that he did not know the nature of the group, the Friends of the Israel Defense Forces, and that he believes such a performance would be incongruent with his status as a U.N. “Messenger of Peace,” according to a source who has read email exchanges between Wonder’s representatives and organizers of the event.

    Wonder was scheduled to headline the Friends of the Israeli Defense Forces annual gala in Los Angeles on Dec. 6. The event raises millions of dollars annually to support the Israeli military.

    Wonder had come under intense social media pressure to pull out of the event. An online petition calling on him to cancel his performance had garnered more than 3,600 signatures.

    The petition was launched more than a day ago on the change.org website [part of the Soros-funded MoveOn.org].
    http://weaselzippers.us/


  37. RIX
    37 | November 29, 2012 12:17 pm

    @ Storagemanager:
    I hope that does not happen.


  38. RIX
    38 | November 29, 2012 12:18 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    That would be the best.


  39. Storagemanager
    39 | November 29, 2012 12:18 pm

    Two U.S.-based Internet-monitoring companies say Syria has shut off the Internet nationwide.

    Activists in Syria reached Thursday by satellite telephone confirmed the unprecedented blackout, which comes amid intense fighting in the capital, Damascus.

    Renesys, a U.S.-based network security firm that studies Internet disruptions, says Syria effectively disappeared from the Internet at 12:26 p.m. local time.

    Akamai Technologies Inc., another U.S-based company that distributes content on the Internet, also confirmed a complete outage for Syria.

    Syria has partially cut Internet connections during the 20-month uprising against President Bashar Assad but a nationwide shutdown is unprecedented.

    Meanwhile, an air strike Thursday on three buildings in Syria’s war-torn commercial capital Aleppo killed at least 15 civilians, including five children and two women, a monitoring group said.

    The raid on the district of Ansari in the southwest of the city also left 20 people wounded, said the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which released videos showing the casualties and extensive damage caused in the area.
    http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/29/252513.html


  40. 40 | November 29, 2012 12:21 pm

    Storagemanager wrote:

    Wonder had come under intense social media pressure to pull out of the event. An online petition calling on him to cancel his performance had garnered more than 3,600 signatures.

    You could get 3,600 signatures on an internet petition for or against practically anything. What a gullible bunch of mofos those entertainers are!


  41. Storagemanager
    41 | November 29, 2012 12:23 pm

    As scrutiny over Turkey’s “gold for gas” deal with Iran draws plans for sanctions from the US Senate, Turkey remains woefully ill prepared to shift away from Iranian energy sources.

    “There’s no way out of this trade for Ankara,” said World Energy Council Turkish National Committee board member Oğuz Türkyılmaz. “The focus in the US is on getting Iran to capitulate, but for the foreseeable future, it’s not going to be possible for Ankara to replace its Iranian energy trade, especially in natural gas.”

    According to a 2012 report by the Turkish Energy Ministry, in 2011 Tehran supplied 51 percent of Turkish oil and 18 percent of its natural gas, numbers which make the country Turkey’s second biggest energy supplier behind Russia. As international sanctions have tightened around Iran, that trade has gained international attention, with Reuters reporting earlier this week that the US Senate was preparing a law that would sanction the trade.

    Turkey’s energy minister nonetheless said on Thursday that he sees no conflict between Ankara and Washington over US plans to widen trade sanctions against Iran, including Turkish-Iranian “gold for gas” trade. That trade, which has seen nearly $6 billion in Turkish gold exported for Iranian natural gas, comes as Iran faces a blacklisting by international banking transactor Swift.

    Though Reuters quoted a senior US aide as stating that the US would end Turkey’s “game of gold for natural gas,” Turkey’s Energy Minister Taner Yıldız said on Thursday that he was “not of the view that there will be a negative situation, [such as] a clash with the US, regarding natural gas, oil and mining. We are talking with the US.”

    Turkey is likely to have little option but to continue the trade against Washington’s wishes, however, as Iranian gas makes up an irreplaceable part of Turkey’s energy mix. “Remember, this is a country where 93 percent of fossil fuels are imported,” said Necdet Pamir, an energy policy expert and also a World Energy Council Turkish National Committee board member. “It’s mainly a problem of infrastructure. You can shift away from oil with tankers, but there’s no way liquefied natural gas [LNG] tankers and other pipelines could transport the 8.2 billion cubic meters of natural gas Turkey bought. So Turkey is stuck.”
    http://www.todayszaman.com/news-299697-.html


  42. 42 | November 29, 2012 12:23 pm

    @ Flyovercountry:

    I think China figures that they are buying victory in the next Pacific War with their largess. It is cheaper to let us sell ourselves to them over time than it is to actually have to fight us in the Pacific, though the so-called Peace Faction would make it unlikely that we could win a war against them anyway. I really don’t hold out much hope for us. This election was the last chance really to head it off. No matter what the Democrats and Republicans “agree” to, the National Debt will be over $21 trillion by the end of Obama’s second term. That is the number that really matters, and base-line budgeting assures us that that</B. won't change.


  43. ferb123
    43 | November 29, 2012 12:26 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Romney is now sitting down to lunch with Obama
    at the White House.
    I know that it would have been bad form not to accept,
    but it has to be galling to visit the man who ran a smear
    campaign against you.

    OMG. Maybe Romney really applies to run the new department of business

    XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


  44. SciFiGuy
    44 | November 29, 2012 12:27 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Storagemanager wrote:

    Wonder had come under intense social media pressure to pull out of the event. An online petition calling on him to cancel his performance had garnered more than 3,600 signatures.

    You could get 3,600 signatures on an internet petition for or against practically anything. What a gullible bunch of mofos those entertainers are!

    Thats correct! Lets see if we can get Dihydrogen Monoxide banned with a petition. I bet we could get 25 to 50,000 signatures…


  45. lobo91
    45 | November 29, 2012 12:48 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    You will never get real spending cuts. Never. Not until our creditors get tired of loaning us money.

    I’m not sure that it’ll even happen then.

    Look at Greece. They haven’t really cut much of anything, even after the EU told them they were going to cut off the spigot if they didn’t do so.

    I seriously doubt that we’ll see anything different here, especially since we still have the ability to print money, unlike Greece.


  46. 46 | November 29, 2012 12:59 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Romney is now sitting down to lunch with Obama
    at the White House.
    I know that it would have been bad form not to accept,
    but it has to be galling to visit the man who ran a smear
    campaign against you.

    Indeed -- this is designed to humiliate Romney. And frankly, if Obama asks for ideas, I’d simply answer “all you kept saying was that you had a plan and I didn’t. Thanks for the green salad.”


  47. 47 | November 29, 2012 1:00 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Dangerous game for China as well though. Ever hear of Bear Sterns? What would China do if we pulled that with them. Don’t forget also that China’s new found wealth is directly correlated to their own switch to a free market economy, (not entirely, but enough to have a real impact,) something they learned with Hong Kong being folded back into their control.


  48. 48 | November 29, 2012 1:01 pm

    SciFiGuy wrote:

    Thats correct! Lets see if we can get Dihydrogen Monoxide banned with a petition. I bet we could get 25 to 50,000 signatures…

    Heh, good point!

    Later, peeps. I’m off to some PT and a workout session. Gotta be at least able to put up a fight when they come for me!


  49. 49 | November 29, 2012 1:02 pm

    @ SciFiGuy:

    Ask, and ye shall receive.


  50. lobo91
    50 | November 29, 2012 1:02 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Not much chance of Obama asking Romney for ideas.

    He’d have to admit that he doesn’t know everything, and we all know that won’t happen.


  51. 51 | November 29, 2012 1:07 pm

    @ lobo91:

    True dat. He’s such an asshole. He invited Romney to gloat, and Romney, being a gentleman and having respect for the office, accepted.


  52. buzzsawmonkey
    52 | November 29, 2012 1:10 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Hey, CG! If you didn’t see my #120 in the previous thread, check it out. It may interest you, from a California perspective…


  53. lobo91
    53 | November 29, 2012 1:15 pm

    Why Democrats really want Republicans to cave on taxes

    Let’s stipulate something about the current tussle at the edge of the fiscal cliff. President Obama and the Democrats and the media--the champions of expanding the public sector at the expense of the rest of us–are going to win, and the Republicans–the last remaining defenders of the private sector–are going to lose. Taxes will go up on upper-income Americans, and spending will continue to grow–and Republicans will glumly go along with it.

    But there are a couple things the GOP establishment might think about, before they capitulate.

    The goal of getting Republicans to agree to raise taxes is not to raise new revenues. After all, allowing the Bush tax rates to expire for wealthier Americans will bring in perhaps $67 billion a year; Warren Buffet’s plan for a thirty percent minimum tax rate for millionaires another $5 billion. That’s spit in the ocean compared to annual deficits of $1 trillion and counting–let alone a $16 trillion national debt.

    And contrary to reports from the media, the goal isn’t “to raise the morale of the middle class” by punishing the rich, or any such class warfare strategy.

    The real goal is to detach Republicans from their Tea Party and conservative base, and wreck any chance of a repeat of 2010′s GOP surge–not to mention recapturing the White House in 2016.

    What a Republican capitulation on taxes will really mean is a future of political defeats stretching out beyond the horizon, as a disheartened base either stays home or wages bitter Tea Party versus Establishment primary fights like the ones that cost them the Senate this year.


  54. 54 | November 29, 2012 1:27 pm

    @ lobo91:

    And if the Republicans were to fight it, Obama would gleefully dive us over the Fiscal Cliff, and blame the ensuing recession on the Republicans. That is really what I expect to happen, anyway. Obama is holding the Economy hostage against raising taxes, and the Republicans don’t even have the balls to call him a Tax-and-Spend Liberal. It is a most disspiriting place we find ourselves in. Any way you cut it, America simply doesn’t have that much longer. They may continue printing money long after our creditors cut us off, but that tactic worked so well in Zimbabwe that they will likely never recover from it. There is no real reason to expect it to work any better here. Obama’s goal isn’t to raise revenue, and it certainly isn’t to reduce the growth of the debt. His goal is to break America, and the voters gave him the go-ahead to do exactly that.


  55. lobo91
    55 | November 29, 2012 1:27 pm

    Harry Reid: “We’ve Already Done More Than A Billion Worth of Cuts, We Need To Get Some Credit For That”…

    Wow, a whole billion dollars! That’s enough to cover 6 whole hours worth of borrowing!
    //


  56. lobo91
    56 | November 29, 2012 1:29 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    They may continue printing money long after our creditors cut us off, but that tactic worked so well in Zimbabwe that they will likely never recover from it. There is no real reason to expect it to work any better here.

    Of course it won’t but there’s also no real reason to expect them not to do it anyway.

    And to blame Bush.


  57. lobo91
    57 | November 29, 2012 1:32 pm

    House Democrats Unanimously Vote To Keep Pelosi As Party Leader…

    House Democrats will go into the 113th Congress with their leadership team largely unchanged after rank-and file members voted Thursday to keep Rep. Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) and her top lieutenants at the head of the party.

    The elections were largely a technicality and Pelosi and the other leaders were all chosen by “unanimously by acclimation,” according to Democratic leadership aides, indicating there was a voice vote rather than a roll-call tally.

    Heading into the vote, several conservative-leaning Blue Dog Democrats – including Reps. Jim Matheson (Utah) and John Barrow (Ga.) – had indicated they would oppose the liberal Pelosi for the minority leader position. But the voice vote meant their opposition was not officially recorded.

    Sound familiar?


  58. Storagemanager
    58 | November 29, 2012 1:32 pm

    Rush…said they are coming for the 401k next.


  59. Storagemanager
    59 | November 29, 2012 1:34 pm

    American’s are lucky to have hot dogs

    Obamas plan 20-day, $4 million vacation… http://www.drudgereport.com/


  60. lobo91
    60 | November 29, 2012 1:37 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    American’s are lucky to have hot dogs

    Moochelle doesn’t want you to eat hot dogs, either.


  61. 61 | November 29, 2012 1:37 pm

    @ Storagemanager:
    They’ll probably not confiscate it outright, though. Instead, they’ll call people with more than $250K in their 401K “rich”, and tax it all as income at the new tax rates. The goal isn’t to get revenue, and it certainly isn’t to punish the truly wealthy. The goal is to end upward mobility in the United States. What the Democrats want is a caste system where your race determins your social class, and all fo that is fixed the moment you are born.


  62. buzzsawmonkey
    62 | November 29, 2012 1:38 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Moochelle doesn’t want you to eat hot dogs, either.

    But Barack likes his dogs piping hot!


  63. 63 | November 29, 2012 1:39 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.


  64. 64 | November 29, 2012 1:39 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    I’ll give it a look see!


  65. lobo91
    65 | November 29, 2012 1:40 pm

    Wow…Megyn Kelly has some Obamabot on who just claimed that the Dems cutting $716 billion out of Medicare--which they’ve spent the past year denying having done--proves that they’re willing to cut entitlements.


  66. Storagemanager
    66 | November 29, 2012 1:42 pm

    One of the key questions lurking in the “fiscal cliff” talks — though well below the public’s radar — is what happens to the alternative minimum tax — or AMT.

    Implemented in 1969 to make sure upper-income Americans pay their share of taxes, the AMT has increasingly snared more middle-income Americans over the years because it was never indexed for inflation.

    During the 2011 tax year for example, the higher tax hit single taxpayers with incomes as low as $48,450 and joint filers making only $74,450.

    But millions more Americans could be subject to the AMT in their 2012 returns if Congress fails to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff before year-end. That’s because the AMT is currently scheduled to hit individuals making as little as $33,750 a year and joint filers making $45,000. (Read More: Complete Coverage of ‘Fiscal Cliff’)

    “I call it AMT shock,” Dick Hoey, chief economist at BNY Mellon, told CNBC recently.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/49981664


  67. Storagemanager
    67 | November 29, 2012 1:42 pm

    Terror Alert in Jerusalem

    Security personnel in Jerusalem raised their alert level, Thursday evening, following reports of a suspicious vehicle.

    Police made efforts to find the vehicle. Inspections at the capital’s central bus station were also made more stringent. Traffic congestion has developed.
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/256325


  68. 68 | November 29, 2012 1:42 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    Oh absolutely. The idea is that they are going to be able to confiscate TRILLIONS of dollars and then make the same stupid pledge -- “give us the money and we’ll give you a payout -- we’ll confiscate 3% of your salary per month and put it in a trust account for you.”

    They HAVE to do this -- they need that money desperately to make the Social Security payments for the baby boomers. But watch -- they will couch it in terms of “rich people getting a tax break on their income that they’re socking away for later.”

    This is going to be problematic for them this time. Even underpaid grocery clerks put money in their 401Ks. I don’t think class warfare is going to work on this.


  69. lobo91
    69 | November 29, 2012 1:43 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    But millions more Americans could be subject to the AMT in their 2012 returns if Congress fails to reach a deal on the fiscal cliff before year-end. That’s because the AMT is currently scheduled to hit individuals making as little as $33,750 a year and joint filers making $45,000.

    It depends on the meaning of “rich”…
    //


  70. lobo91
    70 | November 29, 2012 1:51 pm

    Anyone think this will come up during her confirmation hearings?

    Susan Rice In 1986 Book: Make White Students Learn History From A Black Perspective…

    In a 1986 book by U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Susan Rice, the future diplomat argued for the aggressive inclusion of a black history curriculum in American schools, claiming that its omission had “crippling effects” by “providing a child with no more than … a white interpretation of reality.”

    The 86-page book, “A History Deferred,” served as a guide for secondary and elementary school teachers wanting to teach “Black Studies,” and was published by the Black Student Fund, an advocacy group where Rice had an internship.

    Central to the book’s ambition was reclaiming lost black achievements and giving black children pride in their history. In that vein, Rice lists black achievements in “Literature,” “the Arts,” “the Music [sic]” and “Public Service” to present an Afrocentric view of U.S. history.

    This was necessary, Rice noted in her book’s foreword, because most students were “taught American history, literature, art, drama, and music largely from a white, western European perspective. As a result, their grasp of the truth, of reality, is tainted by a myopia of sorts.”

    “American history cannot be understood fully or evaluated critically without ample study of Black history,” Rice added.


  71. Storagemanager
    71 | November 29, 2012 1:53 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Anyone think this will come up during her confirmation hearings?

    NO


  72. lobo91
    72 | November 29, 2012 1:55 pm

    Storagemanager wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    Anyone think this will come up during her confirmation hearings?

    NO

    Me neither


  73. 73 | November 29, 2012 1:56 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Anyone who isn’t on welfare is, by definition, “rich”. They’re going to tax our asses off to pay benefits to their voters.


  74. Storagemanager
    74 | November 29, 2012 1:58 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Storagemanager wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    Anyone think this will come up during her confirmation hearings?
    NO

    Me neither

    Now if she were white and had belonged to the radical girl scouts movement..she would be toast.


  75. lobo91
    75 | November 29, 2012 1:59 pm

    I wonder how much tax money this “think tank” has gotten from us to pay for this lawsuit?

    Liberal Think Tank To Sue EPA To Force Economy-Killing Cap And Trade System…

    A think tank is preparing to sue the Environmental Protection Agency to demand that the agency set up a cap-and-trade system for the transportation sector to rein in greenhouse gas emissions from fuels.

    “We think the agency’s powers are super clear,” said Michael Livermore, executive director at the Institute for Policy Integrity at the New York University School of Law, which notified EPA of its lawsuit plans Wednesday.

    The institute had petitioned EPA to craft the regulations in 2009 and says the public’s urgency for discussing climate change is heightened after Hurricane Sandy pounded New York, New Jersey and much of the rest of the Northeast and mid-Atlantic.

    “The damage caused by superstorm Sandy was widely linked to some of the potential risks associated with a warming planet. It highlighted the need to work faster to bring down emissions,” Livermore said.

    The cap the group is seeking would limit the amount of fuel going into the U.S. economy from refiners and fuel importers, Livermore told POLITICO.


  76. lobo91
    76 | November 29, 2012 2:02 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    I’m really starting to wonder if there’s a single black person in this administration who isn’t some sort of radical.

    Of course, if you oppose them, it could only be due to the color of their skin, rather than their insane political views.


  77. Storagemanager
    77 | November 29, 2012 2:05 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    I’m really starting to wonder if there’s a single black person in this administration who isn’t some sort of radical.

    Only the boy and girl scouts and the chamber of commerce are radical groups to this president.


  78. 78 | November 29, 2012 2:06 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    I’m really starting to wonder if there’s a single black person in this administration who isn’t some sort of radical.

    I’m sure there is a janitor somewhere in the Administration that isn’t a radical Marxist, but among the people who actually control things? No, I’d be willing to bet that they are all radicals. That seems to be one of the things that Obama looks for in people that he puts in positions of authority. Witness Van Jones and Eric Holder.


  79. lobo91
    79 | November 29, 2012 2:07 pm

    Deep thoughts from the Muslim Brotherhood:

    Egypt’s Islamist President Mohammed Morsi Sees Key To Coexistence Between America And Muslim World In “Planet Of The Apes”…

    President Mohamed Morsi: I remember a movie. Which one? Planet of the Apes. The old version, not the new one. There is new one. Which is different. Not so good. It’s not expressing the reality as it was the first one. But at the end, I still remember, this is the conclusion: When the big monkey, he was head of the supreme court I think — in the movie! — and there was a big scientist working for him, cleaning things, has been chained there. And it was the planet of the apes after the destructive act of a big war, and atomic bombs and whatever in the movie. And the scientists was asking him to do something, this was 30 years ago: “Don’t forget you are a monkey.” He tells him, “Don’t ask me about this dirty work.” What did the big ape, the monkey say? He said, “You’re human, you did it [to] yourself.” That’s the conclusion. Can we do something better for ourselves?


  80. lobo91
    80 | November 29, 2012 2:08 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    I’m really starting to wonder if there’s a single black person in this administration who isn’t some sort of radical.

    I’m sure there is a janitor somewhere in the Administration that isn’t a radical Marxist, but among the people who actually control things? No, I’d be willing to bet that they are all radicals. That seems to be one of the things that Obama looks for in people that he puts in positions of authority. Witness Van Jones and Eric Holder.

    It’s bizarre. I know plenty of black people. Most of them are Democrats.

    Not one of them believes this sort of crap, though.


  81. 81 | November 29, 2012 2:09 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I don’t know -- I think it’s not going to get that far -- she’s even got one of the Repubic Twins from Maine against her how.


  82. 82 | November 29, 2012 2:10 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Absolutely. By this time next year, we will be calling $100,000 RICH. In the San Francisco Bay Area, that’s the salary (with overtime) of a legal assistant.


  83. Storagemanager
    83 | November 29, 2012 2:13 pm

    @ lobo91:
    Another thing Morsi likes

    Qur’an 2:64 “But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you.”

    Qur’an 5:51 “Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.”


  84. lobo91
    84 | November 29, 2012 2:14 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    He was right about the original version of Planet of the Apes being better, anyway.


  85. Storagemanager
    85 | November 29, 2012 2:16 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:
    He was right about the original version of Planet of the Apes being better, anyway.

    HA…that I agree.


  86. lobo91
    86 | November 29, 2012 2:19 pm

    @ Storagemanager:

    I’m frequently reminded of those movies when I see Muslim leaders talking on TV, but probably not in the same way he’s thinking.


  87. Storagemanager
    87 | November 29, 2012 2:22 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Storagemanager:
    I’m frequently reminded of those movies when I see Muslim leaders talking on TV, but probably not in the same way he’s thinking.

    LMAO


  88. RIX
    88 | November 29, 2012 2:30 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Indeed — this is designed to humiliate Romney. And frankly, if Obama asks for ideas, I’d simply answer “all you kept saying was that you had a plan and I didn’t. Thanks for the green salad.”

    Yup, this is the same as a taunting end zone dance.


  89. 89 | November 29, 2012 2:32 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    The evil RICH, and don’t you forget it! They don’t mean the people who live in Washington, though, and they certainly don’t mean people like the Kennedys or the Kerrys/Heinzes. Those people are the good rich because they want to raise taxes on the Middle Class and small businesses. It is infuriating. I don’t know what we do about it, though. The low-information (i.e. stupid) voters won the day in the last election. You can’t force these people to learn, and you can’t win their votes by taking away their hand-outs.


  90. 90 | November 29, 2012 2:34 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I think the whole administration regardless of color is Marxist.


  91. 91 | November 29, 2012 2:35 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I don’t know what we do about it, though.

    Target their rich!


  92. RIX
    92 | November 29, 2012 2:37 pm

    @ lobo91:

    It’s bizarre. I know plenty of black people. Most of them are Democrats.

    Not one of them believes this sort of crap, though

    True, but Obama and his people are of the academic, grievance class.


  93. taxfreekiller
    93 | November 29, 2012 2:46 pm

    Susan Rice,,, from the caller .com
    She and hubby, (ABC TV news producer) worth $36 Million. Lots of it invested in Canada, TransCanada (XL Pipeline),,,,

    Obama signed an executive order to require the SOS to say yes or no on XL Pipeline…

    So she will OK it, the R’s can not say no to her because they too want and need the XL Pipe line.

    This way the Unions will get all the work to build it.

    like that
    two party evil money cult


  94. taxfreekiller
    94 | November 29, 2012 2:49 pm

    http://www.redstate.com/2012/11/28/the-incestuous-bleeding-of-the-republican-party/

    Inside the cult, greed.

    Outside the cut, 6 day weeks of work, husband and wife now, soon the kids to.


  95. darkwords
    95 | November 29, 2012 2:51 pm

    @ 12 Storagemanager: sArah silverson, kristen bell, cher, sean penn approve of this action.


  96. 96 | November 29, 2012 2:52 pm

    RIX wrote:

    True, but Obama and his people are of the academic, grievance class.

    It takes education to become that stupid… :roll:


  97. darkwords
    97 | November 29, 2012 2:53 pm

    @ 29 Rodan: Maybe all of the over 40 crowd in the GoP should just step back and support a younger version of themselves.


  98. darkwords
    98 | November 29, 2012 2:56 pm

    @ 42 Iron Fist: China is probably for Obama to get so locked up in the Muslim Brotherhood that they feel confident just cock blocking the US Navy and walking into Taipei and setting up shop. Practicing on smaller islands with Japan.


  99. 99 | November 29, 2012 2:58 pm

    taxfreekiller wrote:

    She and hubby, (ABC TV news producer) worth $36 Million.

    Tax her ass off. That is what I mean about that they won’t really raise taxes on the rich. She won’t have to pay extortionate taxes, but the upwardly mobile middle class will see their upward moility taxed away.


  100. 100 | November 29, 2012 3:00 pm

    @ darkwords:

    Yeah, I don’t think there is any way the Obama Administration would stop them from taking Taiwan. The question is can China actually project that much power that far off their coast? They have an aircraft carrier now, but there have only been a few (maybe only one) landings on it. It’ll be five years or more before it is a serious contender, and even then they just have the one.


  101. RIX
    101 | November 29, 2012 3:02 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    True, but Obama and his people are of the academic, grievance class.

    It takes education to become that stupid…

    Paradoxically, education now is not exactly about eduction.


  102. 102 | November 29, 2012 3:06 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 29 Rodan: Maybe all of the over 40 crowd in the GoP should just step back and support a younger version of themselves.

    I would not put an age limit. But why the hell do they let that loser McCain and his girlfriend Lindsey be our spokespeople. Get people like Rubio, Rand Paul, Pat Toomey and Kristin Noem out there.


  103. 103 | November 29, 2012 3:07 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    The government in Taiwan is actually Pro Chinese. They probably can take the place without firing a shot. They probably can buy it!

    :lol:


  104. 104 | November 29, 2012 3:11 pm

    New Thread.


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