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Republicans should walk away and let Obama dive off the fiscal cliff

by Speranza ( 70 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Business, Democratic Party, Economy, Elections 2012, Republican Party, taxation, The Political Right, unemployment at December 3rd, 2012 - 8:00 am

I disagree with Dr. K on one key point – Obama does not care if he gets an unemployment rate at 9% and another recession. He survived one recession already (one which we really have not come out of), and he feels (probably justifiably) that he is immune to the normal reaction of the voters with all that accountability that should follow. Sure, he lost the House in 2010 but he kept the Senate (and thanks to the ineptitude of Republican candidates he increased the number of Democratic Senators in 2012) and still won re-election (albeit by 3%, hardly a landslide). Since he cannot run again (as he said to President Medvedev) and can always count on the unswerving support of the media there is good chance he can come away undamaged or slighly damaged (and don’t forgot the Republicans are still “The Stupid Party” prone to shooting themselves in the foot with moronic candidates who cannot intelligently handle “gotcha” questions on abortion/rape).  Obama does not “feel your pain” – he is highly ideological and feels that America needs to be cut down to size.

by Charles Krauthammer

Why are Republicans playing the Democrats’ game that the “fiscal cliff” is all about taxation? House Speaker John Boehner already made the pre-emptive concession of agreeing to raise revenues. But the insistence on doing so by eliminating deductions without raising marginal rates is now the subject of fierce Republican infighting.

Where is the other part of President Barack Obama’s vaunted “balanced approach”? Where are the spending cuts, both discretionary and entitlement: Medicare, Medicaid and now Obamacare (the health care trio) and Social Security?

Social Security is the easiest to solve. So you get a sense of the Democrats’ inclination to reform entitlements when Dick Durbin, the Senate Democrats’ No. 2, says Social Security is off the table because it “does not add a penny to our deficit.”

This is absurd. In 2012, Social Security adds $165 billion to the deficit. Democrats pretend that Social Security is covered through 2033 by its trust fund. Except that the trust fund is a fiction, a mere “bookkeeping” device, as the White House Office of Management and Budget itself has written. The trust fund’s IOUs “do not consist of real economic assets that can be drawn down in the future to fund benefits.” Future benefits “will have to be financed by raising taxes, borrowing from the public, or reducing benefits or other expenditures.”

[……..] And on Wednesday, the president threw down the gauntlet by demanding tax hikes now – with spending cuts to come next year. Meaning, until after Republicans have fallen on their swords, given up the tax issue and forfeited their political leverage.

Ronald Reagan once fell for a “tax now, cut later” deal that he later deeply regretted. Dems got the tax; he never got the cuts. Obama’s audacious new gambit is not a serious proposal to solve our fiscal problems. It’s a raw partisan maneuver meant to neuter the Republicans by getting them to cave on their signature issue as the hold-the-line party on taxes.

[,,,,,,]

I am not now, nor have ever been, a Norquistian. I don’t believe the current level of taxation is divinely ordained. Nor do I believe in pledges of any kind. But Norquist is the only guy in town to consistently resist the tax-and-spend Democrats’ stampede for ever higher taxes to fund ever more reckless spending.

The hunt for Norquist’s scalp is a key part of the larger partisan project to make the Republicans do a George H.W. Bush and renege on their heretofore firm stand on taxes. Bush never recovered.

Why are the Republicans playing along? Because it is assumed that Obama has the upper hand. Unless Republicans acquiesce and get the best deal they can right now, tax rates will rise across the board on Jan. 1, and the GOP will be left without any bargaining chips.

But what about Obama? If we all cliff dive, he gets to preside over yet another recession. It will wreck his second term. Sure, Republicans will get blamed. But Obama is never running again. He cares about his legacy. You think he wants a second term with a double-dip recession, 9 percent unemployment and a totally gridlocked Congress? Republicans have to stop playing as if they have no cards.

Obama is claiming an electoral mandate to raise taxes on the top 2 percent. Perhaps, but remember those incessant campaign ads promising a return to the economic nirvana of the Clinton years? Well, George W. Bush cut rates across the board, not just for the top 2 percent. Going back to the Clinton rates means middle-class tax hikes that yield four times the revenue that you get from just the rich.

So give Obama the full Clinton. Let him live with that. And with what also lies on the other side of the cliff: 28 million Americans newly subject to the ruinous alternative minimum tax.

Republicans must stop acting like supplicants. If Obama so loves those Clinton rates, Republicans should say: Then go over the cliff and have them all.

And add: But if you want a Grand Bargain, then deal. If we give way on taxes, we want, in return, serious discretionary cuts, clearly spelled-out entitlement cuts and real tax reform.

Otherwise, strap on your parachute, Mr. President. We’ll ride down together.

Read the rest – Cliff-jumping with Barack

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70 Responses to “Republicans should walk away and let Obama dive off the fiscal cliff”
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  1. 1 | December 3, 2012 8:29 am

    Obama does not care if he gets an unemployment rate at 9% and another recession.

    Obama does not “feel your pain” – he is highly ideological and feels that America needs to be cut down to size.

    Obama wants another recession and high unemployment. He figures with the media assist he’ll be able to blame it on the Republicans and use it to destroy the Republicans in 2014. He may be right about that. I think we have underestimated Obama as a political animal. Because we don’t see him racking up huge positives, we reckon him a failre, but he is not trying to be a conventional “success”. He doesn’t care what his Rasmussen negatives are, and he doesn’t care much about passing policy. He wants to destroy this country, and just by adding $5 trillion in debt in four years he is well on his way to achieving that goal, to say nothing about his foreign policy. To him it is no big deal that he got a US Ambassador killed. He has helped the Muslim Brotherhood on its path to a Caliphate, and that is much more important than a few “bumps in the road”.


  2. 2 | December 3, 2012 8:49 am

    the tax-and-spend Democrats’

    It is time that sobriquet got more air-play. That should have been the first words out of Romney’s mouth every time he discused the budget. Bill Clinton proclaimer that the Ear of Big Government was over. Barack Obama brought it back bigger and spendier than ever before. $5 trillion he has borrowed and blown, and we don’t have anything substantive to show for it. Now he wants to raise taxes so he can have more money to blow, and more money to scam into the pockets of Democrat constituencies. Just say “No!” Vote “Present” on his bills. We can’t really stop him from raising taxes, but we could give him a noxious mix of taxes on Democrats’ pets.


  3. 3 | December 3, 2012 8:49 am

    My Thread! 8O


  4. MikeA
    4 | December 3, 2012 9:13 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Not anymore. I agree that we should just let the whole thing crash now. Less pain. Its going to come crashing down. Just a matter of when.


  5. mawskrat
    5 | December 3, 2012 9:15 am

    Good Mornin All….make it a great day !

    I’m filing my papers for seperation from politics//


  6. 6 | December 3, 2012 9:33 am

    mawskrat wrote:

    Good Mornin All….make it a great day !

    I’m filing my papers for seperation from politics

    I hear ya. I’m sicker of politics than I am of turkey, dressing and cranberry sauce. There used to be a couple of years, then there was a year, now we can’t even get through a bloody month before the cycle starts anew.


  7. 7 | December 3, 2012 9:39 am

    @ MikeA:

    The question is how to make Obama take the blame for the crash he is trying to bring about. With the lap-dog media, he is going to blame the crash on the Republicans. HE really has us over a barrel. Boehner was stupid to set up this Fiscal Cliff. We should have held firm on the debt ceiling last time and been done with it. Boehner lacked the stones to do that, and now we have this mess. Obama has out-foxed us, priamrily by our living up to the image of the Stupid Party. The Fiscal Cliff is something that the Republican House passed, and Obama signed off on it. That was stupid on our part, and I said so at the time. Obama figures that he wins no matter how this thing ends. HE gets the Republicans to go along with raising taxes, then that destroys the Republican coalition with their Tea Party base. Otherwise, we go off the Fiscal Cliff, and the Republicans are blamed for “protecting the rich”. The only solution is to pass tax increases that Obama will be uncomfortable with. Things like ending pproperty tax and state income tax deductions. Those will hit the Blue States hard, as they are the ones with the high state taxes. And the Republicans really need to push the fact that Obama’s raising “taxes for the rich” really raises taxes on small businesses. That is a direct attack on hiring. Make the debate about Obama’s War on Jobs, from Keystone XL to his confiscatory tax rates. But the Republicans are too stupid to do that.


  8. buzzsawmonkey
    8 | December 3, 2012 9:40 am

    Buzz Ballad: Let it Burn!

    Comments solicited.


  9. 9 | December 3, 2012 9:41 am

    MikeA wrote:

    Not anymore. I agree that we should just let the whole thing crash now. Less pain. Its going to come crashing down. Just a matter of when.

    I’d have to agree. a) It’s highly unlikely we can avert major pain, regardless of what we do, or don’t do. b) Whatever happens, or doesn’t happen will be blamed on Republican intransigence, Republican obstructionism, or Republican activism – pick your poison.

    Frankly, I’m getting a bit weary of trying to save people who won’t even save themselves, all you get is trashed and ridiculed. After we have our little foray into “spread the wealth”, we can play “share the hangover”.


  10. RIX
    10 | December 3, 2012 9:43 am

    Good morning. Obama and the rest of the Dems are having
    a smirking good time. They have the Republicans on the ropes
    with the MSM piling on for them.
    The R’s should lay down a House plan & let Harry Ried
    refuse to call a vote.
    Then we all just go over the Cliff.
    Stop Obama from playing school yard games.


  11. 11 | December 3, 2012 9:45 am

    Mark Levin had a great suggestion. House passes a bill cutting taxes on the two middle rates (i.e., the real “middle class”) and leaving the rates for the lowest and highest the same. Send that bill to the Senate and then let Obama try to explain how the Republicans don’t care about the middle class.


  12. Speranza
    12 | December 3, 2012 9:47 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Obama wants another recession and high unemployment. He figures with the media assist he’ll be able to blame it on the Republicans and use it to destroy the Republicans in 2014.

    You are probably right.


  13. Speranza
    13 | December 3, 2012 9:47 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    Mark Levin had a great suggestion. House passes a bill cutting taxes on the two middle rates (i.e., the real “middle class”) and leaving the rates for the lowest and highest the same. Send that bill to the Senate and then let Obama try to explain how the Republicans don’t care about the middle class.

    The rich voted for Obama so they can soak them all they want.


  14. 14 | December 3, 2012 9:48 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    It sounds good to me, but I would raise the rates for people that make over a million dollars a year. Those people mostly voted for Obama. Tax their asses off!


  15. Speranza
    15 | December 3, 2012 9:49 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    mawskrat wrote:
    Good Mornin All….make it a great day !
    I’m filing my papers for separation from politics

    I hear ya. I’m sicker of politics than I am of turkey, dressing and cranberry sauce. There used to be a couple of years, then there was a year, now we can’t even get through a bloody month before the cycle starts anew.

    moi aussi


  16. 16 | December 3, 2012 9:51 am

    @ RIX:

    Top o’ da mornin’, RIX.

    Obama says he “keeping a list”. Let’s use the lump of coal we get to burn the mofo to the ground, better soon than later. “Christmas miracles” notwithstanding, I don’t see the Republicans getting a groundswell of support from the American people any time soon.


  17. RIX
    17 | December 3, 2012 9:52 am

    @ Carolina Girl:
    Yup, the Republicans need to be identified as the Party
    of the Middle Class & you do that constantly saying that
    you are.
    Anybody paying attention knows that higher taxes on the “2%”
    won’t make a dent.
    The real target is the Middle Class, that’s where the cash is.
    Obama resents the Middle Class seeing it as White, Suburban
    and not socially responsible enough for his taste.


  18. RIX
    18 | December 3, 2012 9:55 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Top o’ da mornin’, RIX.
    Obama says he “keeping a list”. Let’s use the lump of coal we get to burn the mofo to the ground, better soon than later. “Christmas miracles” notwithstanding, I don’t see the Republicans getting a groundswell of support from the American people any time soon.

    Good morning Mac. The Republicans have a significant image
    problem. They have been defined rather than define themselves.
    Obama has the likability factor. I don’t see it , but he does.
    Let him have his nutty plans & then pick up the pieces, if
    there are any.


  19. 19 | December 3, 2012 10:01 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I’m fine with over a million, and even more for over five million. They so want to pay more taxes, why not let them? Let’s tax any capital gains or investment income received over $250,000 a yaer at the rate of 90% – bet that’ll shut ‘em up quick.


  20. 20 | December 3, 2012 10:08 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:

    It sounds good to me, but I would raise the rates for people that make over a million dollars a year. Those people mostly voted for Obama. Tax their asses off!

    Gordon Brown did that in the UK and 2/3 of the people in that bracket packed up and left (and they likely took all of their liquid capital with them).

    That’s precisely what’ll happen here….you know it, I know it, and anyone with a modicum of sense knows it. No better way to prove the point than by empirical evidence. Let the lesson begin!


  21. yenta-fada
    21 | December 3, 2012 10:09 am

    I know nuttink about political strategy. It’s pretty clear that whatever the Republicans do, the treasonous press and commie admin will demonize them. Heck if I know the answer. Propaganda has been kicking the sh!t out of Israel since the 70’s and things have just become worse. I say to those who can; look after yourselves because the social contract is broken. You may still have an effect on local politics and perhaps energies are best spent doing that. You guys know the 411 on the Economy; most are clueless or in denial.


  22. yenta-fada
    22 | December 3, 2012 10:11 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Gordon Brown sold a large bunch of England’s gold at the BOTTOM of the market to get the cash. He’s an idiot.


  23. yenta-fada
    23 | December 3, 2012 10:12 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:

    I’m fine with over a million, and even more for over five million. They so want to pay more taxes, why not let them? Let’s tax any capital gains or investment income received over $250,000 a yaer at the rate of 90% — bet that’ll shut ‘em up quick.

    Living with the consequences of your actions?! That’s soooo retro.


  24. yenta-fada
    24 | December 3, 2012 10:16 am

    Oh, look. Swiss banks are now charging the wealthy to hold their cash. They are paying negative interest rates. (zerohedge)

    In a world that already makes little sense to most, Credit Suisse just pushed the envelope a little further. The bank has just announced that going forward it will be charging for firms to hold a CHF cash balance – i.e. the bank, given the already-negative Swiss government bond yields, has moved to its own NIRP for its clients. The need to do this suggests an overwhelming desire for short-term safety that flies in the face of the seeming level of complacency that exists in the European bond (and stock markets). As we have warned before, it seems that the currency wars that appear to have escalated have now started the ‘capital control’ wars as CS (and implicitly the SNB) adds this negative interest rate ‘charge’ to its already pegged currency in the vain hope that of managing the unmanageable flow of safe-haven-seeking cash.

    •*CREDIT SUISSE INFORMS BANK CLIENTS OF NEGATIVE RATES ON CHF FROM DEC. 10
    •*CREDIT SUISSE INFORMS CLIENTS IN SWIFT NOTICE, CONFIRMED BY BNK


  25. yenta-fada
    25 | December 3, 2012 10:16 am

    So, this is now MY thread? lol


  26. livefreeor die
    26 | December 3, 2012 10:18 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Top o’ da mornin’, RIX.
    Obama says he “keeping a list”. Let’s use the lump of coal we get to burn the mofo to the ground, better soon than later. “Christmas miracles” notwithstanding, I don’t see the Republicans getting a groundswell of support from the American people any time soon.

    Amen.
    We’ll be the villains no matter what happens-go over the cliff and get some budget cutting going already.
    After that, start a serious effort to clean up welfare and disability fraud.


  27. MikeA
    27 | December 3, 2012 10:22 am

    @ yenta-fada:

    Its amazing what the press tells us about how the every other day the European debt problem has been solved. But when you read about this happening with the Swiss, it tells me that things are real bad and they are just trying to paper over the problem. Can’t have the peons know what is going on.


  28. 28 | December 3, 2012 10:26 am

    yenta-fada wrote:

    I know nuttink about political strategy. It’s pretty clear that whatever the Republicans do, the treasonous press and commie admin will demonize them. Heck if I know the answer. Propaganda has been kicking the sh!t out of Israel since the 70′s and things have just become worse. I say to those who can; look after yourselves because the social contract is broken. You may still have an effect on local politics and perhaps energies are best spent doing that. You guys know the 411 on the Economy; most are clueless or in denial.

    Not all of the American people are stupid, but the stupid definitely have an operating majority right now, and, as I intimated above, I’m becoming increasingly reluctant to waste my time debating people who have no interest in honest debate.

    Obama has no respect for what a powerful force history is; no matter how big your ship, you’re at the mercy of the ocean – that’s history. Then again, this new group of oh-so-clever “moderns” have little regard for history, do they? They’ve built a “ship” that defies history, that negates the effects of history. Yep, that’s what they said about the Titanic.


  29. 29 | December 3, 2012 10:27 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Absolutely. But the Obama Supporters mostly Can’t pack up and leave. The professional athletes, music and movie stars, and the like work in tyh eUnited States. Tax their asses off. People like Susan Estrich that was bitching the other day about her taxes going up. Wah, hate it for her. Tax her ass off. Seh voted for Obama, and a vote for Obama was a vote for higher taxes. I’d like to see them levy a special tax on income from trust funds, and an “Estate” tax on money donated to endowments. Why should a family farm have to pay the Estate tax but Bill Gates’ massive endowment does not? There are lots of places the Republicans could go to raise taxes that Obama would freak out about. Do it! Make the Obamabots pay their fair share.


  30. bluliner10
    30 | December 3, 2012 10:33 am

    @ MacDuff:
    Hey, history continues to get re-written, so it can’t be bad if we ignore those lessons. We can just write a version that is more appealing to us. Works for highschool and college students, may as well try it on the public at large.


  31. 31 | December 3, 2012 10:34 am

    On Friday, I can an interesting experience at work. Sally the Socialist (who is as dumb and uninformed as a box of rocks) was spouting forth on the plan to take the 401K money, advising that it really benefited the rich more than anyone else. I said, it has nothing to do with the tax deferment – what they really want is the trillions that are invested. She said no, and I simply said “then why don’t they just rescind the 401k law and give people 6 months to convert their 401k funds into an IRA and put an end to it? The tax deferment is gone and the money is still locked up in an account you cannot access until you’re of a certain age.

    That stopped her. I repeated — “Because they don’t give a
    CRAP about the tax deferment – THEY WANT THE MONEY.”


  32. 32 | December 3, 2012 10:34 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    Absolutely. But the Obama Supporters mostly Can’t pack up and leave. The professional athletes, music and movie stars, and the like work in tyh eUnited States. Tax their asses off. People like Susan Estrich that was bitching the other day about her taxes going up. Wah, hate it for her. Tax her ass off. Seh voted for Obama, and a vote for Obama was a vote for higher taxes. I’d like to see them levy a special tax on income from trust funds, and an “Estate” tax on money donated to endowments. Why should a family farm have to pay the Estate tax but Bill Gates’ massive endowment does not? There are lots of places the Republicans could go to raise taxes that Obama would freak out about. Do it! Make the Obamabots pay their fair share.

    Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m completely in favor of sucking up every penny we can, inflicting maximum pain on the maximum earners. It’s said that conservatives are liberals that were bitten in the ass by reality, let’s loose the dogs of reality!


  33. yenta-fada
    33 | December 3, 2012 10:39 am

    MikeA wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:

    Its amazing what the press tells us about how the every other day the European debt problem has been solved. But when you read about this happening with the Swiss, it tells me that things are real bad and they are just trying to paper over the problem. Can’t have the peons know what is going on.

    There is no solution, imo, to unrestrained credit creation and the biggest hot mess of them all; DERIVATIVES. Jim Sinclair figures they are worth a quadrillion. How much IS that? Money printing and kicking the can down the road is still the only future they are making public. I do believe there will be a currency re-set, and the primary currencies will not be Western. Probably a combo of China and other Eastern currencies plus a true petro-currency which is gold. When the dollar is no longer convertible directly into oil, there’s nothing there except ever expanding debt. When the tide goes out, you see who has been swimming naked.


  34. 34 | December 3, 2012 10:40 am

    bluliner10 wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    Hey, history continues to get re-written, so it can’t be bad if we ignore those lessons. We can just write a version that is more appealing to us. Works for highschool and college students, may as well try it on the public at large.

    You’re right, of course, but while history records can be malleable, the effects are constant.


  35. RIX
    35 | December 3, 2012 10:40 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    How about punitive taxes on Hollywood production companies that
    film in Canada to avoid union scale wages here?


  36. yenta-fada
    36 | December 3, 2012 10:41 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Someone said the other day that the Democrats and Republicans are like two guys fighting for the bar bill on the Titanic.


  37. MikeA
    37 | December 3, 2012 10:41 am

    @ yenta-fada:

    Thanks for the visual… Now I am going to go throw up… ;)


  38. yenta-fada
    38 | December 3, 2012 10:42 am

    RIX wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    How about punitive taxes on Hollywood production companies that
    film in Canada to avoid union scale wages here?

    Actually, since our currency has reached par with the U.S. dollar, that is no longer such a big advantage for Hollywood.


  39. 39 | December 3, 2012 10:42 am

    yenta-fada wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    Someone said the other day that the Democrats and Republicans are like two guys fighting for the bar bill on the Titanic.

    Actually, that’s a pretty good analogy!


  40. yenta-fada
    40 | December 3, 2012 10:42 am

    MikeA wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:

    Thanks for the visual… Now I am going to go throw up…

    Don’t get any on the walls.


  41. MikeA
    41 | December 3, 2012 10:42 am

    @ MacDuff:

    or a different way… Reality has a way of slapping you in the face.


  42. Speranza
    42 | December 3, 2012 10:45 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    yenta-fada wrote:
    @ MacDuff:
    Someone said the other day that the Democrats and Republicans are like two guys fighting for the bar bill on the Titanic.

    Actually, that’s a pretty good analogy!

    That is a terrific analogy.


  43. RIX
    43 | December 3, 2012 10:46 am

    @ yenta-fada:

    Actually, since our currency has reached par with the U.S. dollar, that is no longer such a big advantage for Hollywood

    I didn’t know that. Just looking for a way to tax Obamas friends.


  44. 44 | December 3, 2012 10:46 am

    @ RIX:

    It works for me. I think there should be an entertainment excise tax on Hollywood productions and music entertainment. These aren’t life necessities. They are luxuries. Think of it as a luxury tax on the wealthy.


  45. Speranza
    45 | December 3, 2012 10:47 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:
    It sounds good to me, but I would raise the rates for people that make over a million dollars a year. Those people mostly voted for Obama. Tax their asses off!

    I’ve been saying that for a while. We need to resemble Main Street not Wall Street (the majority of whom voted for Obama anyway).


  46. bluliner10
    46 | December 3, 2012 10:48 am

    @ MacDuff:
    Yes, no matter how often I change my viewpoint and recollection of events, every time I put a finger on the red element on the stove it hurts. For the progressives, history is not written by the victor, it is recorded by both.


  47. Speranza
    47 | December 3, 2012 10:48 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ RIX:
    It works for me. I think there should be an entertainment excise tax on Hollywood productions and music entertainment. These aren’t life necessities. They are luxuries. Think of it as a luxury tax on the wealthy.

    Taxing Hollywood – now that is something I would strongly support. Let Spielberg, Weinstein, Stone pay more taxes.


  48. RIX
    48 | December 3, 2012 10:48 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ RIX:

    It works for me. I think there should be an entertainment excise tax on Hollywood productions and music entertainment. These aren’t life necessities. They are luxuries. Think of it as a luxury tax on the wealthy

    .

    I agree. Let them step up , instead of constantly lecturing.


  49. Prebanned
    49 | December 3, 2012 10:51 am

    The fiscal cliff is the best we can do after four years of doing absolutely nothing about the debt bomb, actually making it worse by refusing any type of budget and letting baseline budgeting continue to inflate the bloated stimulous spending of 2008.
    Obama wants us to take 1.6 trillion in taxes and more stimulus than cuts in exchange for an unlimited debt ceiling.
    The choice is bad and worse.
    Pick the bad.
    On a happier note, with the clinton tax rates back there will be more people actually paying taxes.


  50. bluliner10
    50 | December 3, 2012 10:52 am

    @ RIX:
    Don’t forget to extend those taxes to businesses whose sole purpose is the distribution of said entertainment products. I am pretty sure that Ticketmaster and the movie theater industry is not ready for a big tax on their income, which affects prices and affects the butts buying tickets.


  51. 51 | December 3, 2012 10:58 am

    bluliner10 wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Don’t forget to extend those taxes to businesses whose sole purpose is the distribution of said entertainment products. I am pretty sure that Ticketmaster and the movie theater industry is not ready for a big tax on their income, which affects prices and affects the butts buying tickets.

    Professional sports franchises, management/coaching staff and player salaries, product endorsements…..then we need to take a look at big-time college sports.

    Maybe Republicans’ new mantra should be “how much is enough?”


  52. 52 | December 3, 2012 11:01 am

    @ bluliner10:

    Nah, they’ll just add it to that absolutely outrageous “service fee” they charge.


  53. bluliner10
    53 | December 3, 2012 11:03 am

    @ Carolina Girl:
    Service fee or increased taxes. Just makes me less inclined to spend my money.


  54. 54 | December 3, 2012 11:03 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Also, since we’re so worried about how much those big business types earn in bonuses (and most take NO salary during the year because of the contracted bonus) and how it’s affecting “Main Street,” it’s time we took a look at those ridiculous salaries of the movie folk. Get paid $15,000,000 for a movie. Nice work. We’d like 75% of it in taxes. You’ve made enough money.


  55. RIX
    55 | December 3, 2012 11:04 am

    bluliner10 wrote:

    @ RIX:

    Don’t forget to extend those taxes to businesses whose sole purpose is the distribution of said entertainment products. I am pretty sure that Ticketmaster and the movie theater industry is not ready for a big tax on their income, which affects prices and affects the butts buying tickets.

    That works, but I really want to see direct taxation on Hollywood
    domiciled Obama supporters.
    Yo know that they are dying to step up & pay their fair share.


  56. bluliner10
    56 | December 3, 2012 11:08 am

    @ RIX:
    Mine adds to that. Hollywood actor gets taxed higher, he demands more to meet added tax. Movie and all production taxes higher, then the theater is also required to pay luxury tax. Suddenly it is 20 bucks to buy your ticket. With less money to buy food, gasoline, movies really take a hit. Movie stars are waiting for LAPD to bring them a pair of Sketchers….win win.


  57. 57 | December 3, 2012 11:09 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    Maybe Republicans’ new mantra should be “how much is enough?”

    We know that the Democrats answer is that it is never enough. The tax-and-spend Democrats will spend every penny and borrow more to spend no matter what we raise revenue to. And there really is a finite level that we can raise revenue to, anyway. Anything after something like 19% GDP, and we start cutting GDP and losing revenue n o matter how high we raise the taxes. The Democrats goal is not to make the Kennedys and the Kerrys pay. The goal is to keep the Middle Class form developing into a wealthy class. The Republicans need to make it explicit that this is the attitude that we are fighting. Obama posing as the defender of th eMiddle Class is as offensive and ludicrous as the Grand Dragon of the Ku Klux Klan posing as a defender of minorities.


  58. 58 | December 3, 2012 11:10 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    Also, since we’re so worried about how much those big business types earn in bonuses (and most take NO salary during the year because of the contracted bonus) and how it’s affecting “Main Street,” it’s time we took a look at those ridiculous salaries of the movie folk. Get paid $15,000,000 for a movie. Nice work. We’d like 75% of it in taxes. You’ve made enough money.

    Absolutely. I’m looking at this as a “teaching moment”. We also need to find more “effective” ways of “reaching out and touching” people like Johnny Depp” who reside outside the US…..He’s a “socially conscious” kinda guy, I’m sure he’d jump at the chance to participate.


  59. 59 | December 3, 2012 11:12 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    Get paid $15,000,000 for a movie. Nice work. We’d like 75% of it in taxes. You’ve made enough money.

    Exactly. Get a $75 million five-year contract to play a game? Nice work. We’d like 75% of that. You’ve made enough money. Two can play at this class warfare game. The Democrats are going for the middle class. I say we gun for the truly wealthy. They vote for Obama anyway.


  60. 60 | December 3, 2012 11:15 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    We know that the Democrats answer is that it is never enough. The tax-and-spend Democrats will spend every penny and borrow more to spend no matter what we raise revenue to.

    Indeed. I’d like to find a way to teach them that lesson with their money for a change. Reduce their financial “insulation” to demonstrate that it’s cold outside, so to speak.


  61. heysoos
  62. 62 | December 3, 2012 11:28 am

    heysoos wrote:

    I’m onboard with this idea…
    http://www.politico.com/blogs/politico-live/2012/12/grover-put-cliff-talks-on-tv-150827.html?hp=r2

    Absolutely!


  63. 63 | December 3, 2012 11:33 am

    @ MacDuff:

    The media lets Obama control the message. They give short-shrift to attempts by the GOP, for instance, to explain why there will be no deal for raising taxes until Obama advises his plan for cutting spending. Remind the public that twice Republican Presidents raised taxes in return for spending cuts – which did not materialize in either situation.

    Obama’s ruse is to present laughable plans that are unworkable and undoable and then to blame the Republicans for refusing to go along with him. And the MSM laps it up.


  64. RIX
    64 | December 3, 2012 11:35 am

    @ bluliner10:
    There ya go.


  65. heysoos
    65 | December 3, 2012 11:39 am

    from another site…

    “It should be obvious to everyone who is willing to believe what they see, that we are living in a time of deep-delusion – the delusion that you can get something for nothing. We have had four years of an Administration that borrowed with no plan to pay back and lent with no plan to collect. There have been enormous structural changes in the world economy and instead of making the painful but necessary changes, Obama has created incentives to avoid the kinds of adjustments that must be made. For anyone who imagined Obama was going to be an instrument of positive change, he has been an enormous disappointment. He made no effort to encourage corporations to invest the very large cash reserves. He encouraged people to remain unemployed. He made no effort to reduce the debt. If we ever get past the horrendous delusion this Administration is living under, historians will record that what should have been a liberating moment in terms of race and economic advancement, was a huge and unprecedented dismal failure. God have mercy on us.”


  66. 66 | December 3, 2012 11:42 am

    We have reached the point where this indebtedness can in no way be paid back. Our unfunded liabilities – social security and medicare – are no longer sustainable (hence the burning desire of Democraps in Congress to confiscate those trillions in 401k money).

    We’re already in free-fall over the “fiscal cliff” – all we’re debating about now is the rate of descent.


  67. 67 | December 3, 2012 11:56 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    We’re already in free-fall over the “fiscal cliff” — all we’re debating about now is the rate of descent.

    Yes, the last chance we had to stop us from going over the real Fiscal Cliff ended when Romney lost. We can debate the whys of that until the cows come home, but the cost of it is going to be real, and it is going to be felt world-wide. Like I’ve been teling my wife, all we can do is get ready to weather the crash as best as we can. I am especially concerned that they are going to nationalize the 401Ks. I don’t have anything to take, but my wife does. I don’t put anything past the Democrats. They are truly evil. Their goal has been to destroy this nation all of my life. It looks like they are going to succeed. The Republicans still won’t call them out on what they are really trying to do. Obama is posing as the defender of the Middle Class while at the same time he is trying to destroy it, and the Republicans are mostly silent on it. I honestly don’t thing the Republicna leadership wants to win.


  68. 68 | December 3, 2012 12:19 pm

    The Pope joined Twitter today – already has 154,000 followers.


  69. Speranza
    69 | December 3, 2012 12:25 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    The Pope joined Twitter today — already has 154,000 followers.

    Charles Johnson not being one of them.


  70. buzzsawmonkey
    70 | December 3, 2012 12:36 pm

    Seeing as how it’s holiday season, here’s a little carol. Comments over at PJM invited:

    Let it Burn! Let it Burn! Let it Burn!
    —apologies to Sammy Cahn, Jule Styne, and “Let it Snow!”

    Oh, the fiscal precipice is looming
    A crisis the President’s been grooming
    And since there’s nowhere to turn,
    Let it burn! Let it burn! Let it burn!

    No, Obama is not intending
    To rein in his runaway spending
    He just wants to punish those who earn;
    Let it burn! Let it burn! Let it burn!

    Yes, we’re facing fiscal collapse
    The predictions will be fulfilled
    But if we get over with it, perhaps
    The sooner we can start to rebuild

    Since the executive of the nation
    Won’t engage in negotiation
    His proposals then must be spurned
    Let it burn! Let it burn! Let it burn!


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