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How Goofy Was Barack Obama’s Offer On The Budget Deal?

by Flyovercountry ( 122 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Economy, Politics at December 4th, 2012 - 8:00 am

Political Cartoons by Michael Ramirez

Here’s the deal that Barack Obama demanded of the House controlled by Republicans, (who, in case you missed it, also won on election day in 2012.)

He demanded a $1.6 Trillion increase in taxes over 10 years, coupled with an increase in spending by another cool $1 Trillion per year, added to the baseline. He demanded to not only have the debt ceiling increased to pay for furthering the deficit, but also demanded that the House permanently give up its constitutional control of the purse strings by granting the President unlimited ability to use America’s credit card until such time as our creditors see fit to cut us off. This alone caused uncontrollable laughter amongst not only Republican lawmakers who heard it without warning from Timothy Geitner, the tax cheat turned Treasury Secretary sent to relay the offer tendered by our President, who campaigned on his ability to bring a divided America back together again, but even had some members of the Democrat Caucus in stitches.

So, what olive branch did the President offer in exchange for the gift of unconstrained power free from the shackles of an onerous constitutional system of checks and balances? I am so glad you asked. He offered, wait for it……………………

$1 Trillion in budgetary concessions to be taken from future base line expenditures spread over 10 years to begin in 10 years.

If that seems a little familiar, it’s because we’ve all seen this movie before. We get promised spending cuts in the future, usually at some point in time when not one single politician who struck this deal will even be around to deal with the consequences. Those spending cuts will not even be true cuts, because they will be based on that enduring joke called base line budgeting, in which spending more can be labeled a cut, so long as in some previous year, a dishonest law maker had the foresight to stipulate that we planned to spend even more than an insane increase during the year in question. Since future Congresses and future Presidents are not subject to the deals made today, those cuts will never happen anyhow. Think of Lucy tearing away that football on Charlie Brown, and you will have some idea as to how this history has always played out in the past. (As I’ve written before, we’re still waiting on Congress to make good on those budget cuts offered to Ronald Reagan during the budget compromise of 1982.)

The answer came to us today, as to how goofy this offer was. Steny Hoyer(D) Maryland, announced today that of course President Obama was not serious with this, it was merely posturing. Putting aside for the moment that he actually went out and stumped for his deal as if the Presidential campaign were still in full swing, why start off with something this insincere at all?

I am not certain on what evidence people decided that Barack Obama would, “bring our disparate political leaders together in order to reach bipartisan feelings of Kumbayah,” but this offering of a solution that turned out to be nothing but a waste of time is simply not the efforts that would be taken by someone who took their position of leadership seriously. The President’s offer starts by increasing taxes beyond the increase set to occur by leaping off of the, “fiscal cliff,” It seeks to increase spending by an amount greater than all previous increases in spending, throughout our history, and it seeks to strip the House of it’s lone Constitutional power, and have that granted in perpetuity to the President, who just happens to be Barack Obama. This is a man who wants to go over the falls in a barrel. He just also wants Americans to blame someone else for it, which is pretty much the way he operates.

Cross Posted from Musings of a Mad Conservative.

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122 Responses to “How Goofy Was Barack Obama’s Offer On The Budget Deal?”
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  1. 1 | December 4, 2012 8:12 am

    Putting aside for the moment that he actually went out and stumped for his deal as if the Presidential campaign were still in full swing, why start off with something this insincere at all?

    Barack Obama doesn’t want a deal. He wants sequestration to gut our military, and he wants taxes to go up. Goindg off the Fiscal Cliff is a win-win for him, especially if he can blame the resulting recession on Republican “intransigence”. He didn’t make a serious offer because there would be the danger that the Republicans would accept a serious offer, and that is the last thing he wants to happen.


  2. SciFiGuy
    2 | December 4, 2012 8:16 am

    Most intelligent president ever my butt!! My dead cat has more common sense than he ever possessed.


  3. 3 | December 4, 2012 8:30 am

    @ SciFiGuy:

    You are mistaking him for wanting to do something positive. Obama knows exactly what he is doing. He isn’t (as billed) the smartest man ever to be President, but he isn’t completely stupid. He is just very, very evil. To him our lives as little people are completely meaningless. At best he doesn’t care that real unemployment is 11% or more. He doesn’t care if that climbs to 20% or more. He knows he’ll never have to face the stupid voters again, and that he can deflect blame with the collusion of the Media, so he doesn’t care that people are out of work. All he cares about is himself.


  4. Prebanned
    4 | December 4, 2012 8:44 am

    Fiscal cliff is the best we can do. Can we afford to let the tax codes get more unbalanced?
    Yes, Boehner screwed us, but now that is the best we can do.
    The Democrats, being masters of negotiation due to thier ability to dedpan offers that completely ignore reality, will offer armageddon-level deals until the last moment when they offer something worse than the fiscal cliff yet better than what they offer now.
    Then the Media will pressure the productive class to accept the grand compromise.
    Just go over the cliff, it is the best we can do.


  5. waldensianspirit
    5 | December 4, 2012 8:57 am

    Boehner Removes Conservatives From House Financial Committees…

    Tea Partiers are pariah


  6. 6 | December 4, 2012 9:01 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Boehner Removes Conservatives From House Financial Committees…

    Tea Partiers are pariah

    Boehner needs to be challenged for the Speaker position, I’m thinking Paul Ryan.


  7. 7 | December 4, 2012 9:04 am

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Boehner’s going to cave to Obama. He is getting ri of the people who might nix his stabbing us in the back. I expect Boehner will even cry when he stabs us in th eback, but the stab is coming. That is what that is about. The GOP Establishment would rather be a permanent minority party than be in the Majority with the Tea Party in a position of power. They have no intentions of cutting government spending. They just want to make sure they get their share of the pie when it is divided up. Nobody but us little people are thinking ten years out on this. They just want to get through the next election, and I think Boehner has decided he’d rather lose the Speakership than deal with the Tea PArty.


  8. citizen_q
    8 | December 4, 2012 9:07 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Boehner Removes Conservatives From House Financial Committees…
    Tea Partiers are pariah

    As far as I am concerned our political elites in large part are corrupt on both sides. I am sure there are exceptions, but more and more I view the government as a glorified protection racket and elections just rigged exorcizes in picking members of the mob running and truly benefiting from it.


  9. 9 | December 4, 2012 9:10 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Barack Obama doesn’t want a deal.

    No he doesn’t, he wants to run the table, destroy the Republicans as a political entity and salt the earth where we once prospered. It’s madness to think he’s even capable of negotiation because he’s bereft of any semblance of good faith.

    At this point no deal is better than a bad deal.


  10. Prebanned
    10 | December 4, 2012 9:11 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Boehner Removes Conservatives From House Financial Committees…
    Tea Partiers are pariah

    Will the Tea Party still be blamed for this deal?


  11. 11 | December 4, 2012 9:13 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Paul Ryan would signal that we are serious about the debt, but I am not really sensing that the Party Apparatchiks are serious about the debt. To them it is just a talking point, devoid of any real consequences. They are going to be shocked when we hold a bond sale and there are no buyers at the interest rates we want to give. I guess they think we’ll just print the money because that worked out so swell for Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic… :roll:


  12. 12 | December 4, 2012 9:16 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    At this point no deal is better than a bad deal.

    Exactly, but I think Boehner is goig to sell us out and take the bad deal. He won’t necessarily like it, but he’ll see it as the lesser evil as opposed to standing firm. Boehner has the spine of a linguini. His spinelessness is the reason we are even here now. Obama learned that he could be steam-rolled in the debate over the Debt Ceiling where they set this monstrosity up. When Boehner caved there, he set up the future. We need new leadership badly.


  13. 13 | December 4, 2012 9:22 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    Paul Ryan would signal that we are serious about the debt, but I am not really sensing that the Party Apparatchiks are serious about the debt. To them it is just a talking point, devoid of any real consequences. They are going to be shocked when we hold a bond sale and there are no buyers at the interest rates we want to give. I guess they think we’ll just print the money because that worked out so swell for Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic…

    Yesterday, someone (sorry, I forgot whom) aptly observed that the two parties are like two guys arguing about the bar bill on the Titanic. It’s all disturbingly amazing.


  14. 14 | December 4, 2012 9:26 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Boehner is awaiting the wisdom of Bob Costas!


  15. waldensianspirit
    15 | December 4, 2012 9:30 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    It’s all disturbingly amazing.

    Expect a new currency. With funny faces on the paper. They will set limits on how long a person can go without exchanging their dollars for the new currency and keep a pittance in the exchange rate


  16. 16 | December 4, 2012 9:31 am

    @ MacDuff:

    The GOP should just walk away.


  17. theoutsider
    17 | December 4, 2012 9:35 am

    @ Rodan:
    Walk away from any deal?


  18. 18 | December 4, 2012 9:35 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Exactly, but I think Boehner is goig to sell us out and take the bad deal.

    Yeah, from all appearances, Obama is about to roll Boehner like a doobie and smoke him. He’s likely about to become the Congressional equivalent of Chamberlain.


  19. 19 | December 4, 2012 9:37 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    Walk away from any deal?

    Obama doe not want a deal. He wants to score a political win.


  20. 20 | December 4, 2012 9:39 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Yup. The GOP is very fractured right now. A surrender by Boehner will have unintended consequences.


  21. waldensianspirit
    21 | December 4, 2012 9:40 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    Walk away from any deal?

    Obama hasn’t told us after the election he’d have more flexibility


  22. 22 | December 4, 2012 9:40 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    Walk away from any deal?

    Obama famously outlined his position to Paul Ryan, in a previous “negotiation” by saying “I won”. His position hasn’t changed.

    There are no “deals” with Obama… .only capitulation.


  23. theoutsider
    23 | December 4, 2012 9:44 am

    @ Rodan:
    He wants a deal and he wants a political win. He won the election. Why wouldn’t he want both?


  24. waldensianspirit
    24 | December 4, 2012 9:45 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    He wants a deal and he wants a political win. He won the election. Why wouldn’t he want both?

    Obama told you this?


  25. 25 | December 4, 2012 9:46 am

    Make no mistake, the process that’s unfolding right now isn’t a negotiation by any stretch of the imagination, it’s the process of Obama consolidating power.


  26. 27 | December 4, 2012 9:49 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    He wants a deal and he wants a political win. He won the election. Why wouldn’t he want both?

    He wants a political win, no deal. Why should he want a deal? He just wants to continue to demagogue the GOP. If I were Republicans I would just agree to the tax rates for those under 500,000 and walk away. Then deal with the debt ceiling next year. I would propose a 30% tax on entertainment and sports profits. Obama will decline that and then he could be hammered for it. But the GOP is too stupid to pull it off. They should just walk away.


  27. 28 | December 4, 2012 9:50 am

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Republicans should propose ending these credits for film makers.


  28. Speranza
    29 | December 4, 2012 9:51 am

    Paul Ryan is too wonkish to be the head of the ticket in 2016. He comes across like a likable economics professor. He will spend his time putting the public to sleep talking about Dodd-Frank. It’s unfortunate becasue he is a brilliant and serious man but that’s the way it is. This is not an intellectually gifted society but rather a society filled with millions and millions of low information voters.


  29. 30 | December 4, 2012 9:52 am

    @ Speranza:

    We need someone who can speak in a way Low info voters can understand.


  30. Speranza
    31 | December 4, 2012 9:53 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ waldensianspirit:
    Republicans should propose ending these credits for film makers.

    Adam Corolla last night on O’Reilly pointed out that he was at a hotel in Winnipeg, Canada and uber liberal and Obama supporter Samuel L. Jackson was in the same hotel because he was making a film in Winnipeg instead of Los Angeles because they can skirt union rules and California’s stifling regulations and taxes. Irony of ironies -- Michael Moore does a lot of his filming in Toronto for the same reasons.


  31. Speranza
    32 | December 4, 2012 9:55 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    We need someone who can speak in a way Low info voters can understand.

    Quite concur!


  32. 33 | December 4, 2012 9:56 am

    @ Speranza:

    Union for thee but not for me. We really need to target the entertainment industry tax wise. It’s time to hit them where it hurts.


  33. waldensianspirit
    34 | December 4, 2012 9:57 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    We need someone who can speak in a way Low info voters can understand.

    Won’t help conservatism. They’d know even more so to go with the freebie handouts and food stamps


  34. theoutsider
    35 | December 4, 2012 9:57 am

    @ Rodan:
    The deal is going be on tax rates above $500,000. You haven’t seen that coming?


  35. Prebanned
    36 | December 4, 2012 10:00 am

    50 billion in new spending in 2013 will be 210 billion extra spending in Obama’s second term due to baseline budgeting and no budget agreed on.
    We should have went over the cliff 5 trillion dollars ago.


  36. waldensianspirit
    37 | December 4, 2012 10:00 am

    Low info voters only want their addictions assured. And cheap endless texting devices and time


  37. 38 | December 4, 2012 10:02 am

    Speranza wrote:

    It’s unfortunate but that’s the way it is. This is not an intellectually gifted society but rather a society filled with millions and millions of low information voters.

    Yep, the decades-long dumbing down of the American people has taken root. The idiocracy is upon us and, if “we” proceed upon this path, the majority that elected those who brought us to this place will well deserve their fate.

    It’s a damned shame the rest of us have to suffer along with the voluntarily ignorant, but that’s the downside of democracy; it’s oft indistinguishable from mob rule.


  38. Speranza
    39 | December 4, 2012 10:02 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Union for thee but not for me. We really need to target the entertainment industry tax wise. It’s time to hit them where it hurts.

    Yes but many of them probably have their money stashed in off shore accounts.


  39. 40 | December 4, 2012 10:03 am

    @ Speranza:

    I don’t see the GOP as currently configured winning in 2016. The fact that Porky (Jeb Bush) and the Sanctimonious Socialist (Santorum) are considered the top 2 contenders.

    The GOP is just like the French Bourbons. They learn nothing nor forgot anything.


  40. Speranza
    41 | December 4, 2012 10:03 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    Yep, the decades-long dumbing down of the American people has taken root. The idiocracy is upon us and, if “we” proceed upon this path, the majority that elected those who brought us to this place will well deserve their fate.

    It’s a damned shame the rest of us have to suffer along with the voluntarily ignorant, but that’s the downside of democracy; it’s oft indistinguishable from mob rule.

    The universities (and High Schools, Middle Schools) have really done a number on American youth.


  41. 42 | December 4, 2012 10:04 am

    @ theoutsider:

    There is more than that. There are supposed to be spending cuts. Obama has proposed none because he just wants to raise taxes on the rich so he can feel better about himself. It’s not going to solve anything.


  42. 43 | December 4, 2012 10:05 am

    @ MacDuff:
    @ Speranza:

    We have to compete for these voters. We have to deal with a dumb down electorate.


  43. Speranza
    44 | December 4, 2012 10:05 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I don’t see the GOP as currently configured winning in 2016. The fact that Porky (Jeb Bush) and the Sanctimonious Socialist (Santorum) are considered the top 2 contenders.
    The GOP is just like the French Bourbons. They learn nothing nor forgot anything.

    Neither will be the nominee (certainly not Padre Santorum). Look to Susana Martinez to be a top contender.


  44. Speranza
    45 | December 4, 2012 10:06 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    @ Speranza:
    We have to compete for these voters. We have to deal with a dumb down electorate.

    I agree. It is as it is.


  45. 46 | December 4, 2012 10:07 am

    @ Speranza:

    Look to Susana Martinez to be a top contender.

    She would be very formidable. But the birthers are going to target her and claim she’s not natural born. The GOP establishment will help fuel this so she doesn’t get the nod. They want Porky.


  46. Prebanned
    47 | December 4, 2012 10:09 am

    Let all the Booooosh tax cuts expire, including the Earned income tax credit expansion and put a national vat tax in place to cover the remaining deficit.

    I bet the “people” will begin calling for a budget then.


  47. coldwarrior
    48 | December 4, 2012 10:10 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    He wants a deal and he wants a political win. He won the election. Why wouldn’t he want both?

    yet congress, when tallied nationally, had more votes for the gop than obama had for president.

    do tell, oh outsider, what is your plan to fix the economy? or do you accept anemic growth and high unemployment as okie dokie? shall we tax everyone even more? spend more? that hasn’t worked very well in the last 4 years (or ever).

    i await your eceonomic policies and plan. perhaps you can get a sea view office right beside prof laffer at pepperdine

    MALIBU AWAITS YOUR BRILLIANCE!


  48. coldwarrior
    49 | December 4, 2012 10:12 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Neither will be the nominee (certainly not Padre Santorum). Look to Susana Martinez to be a top contender.

    his title is His Excellency, The Most Reverend, Sanctus Santorum, thankyouverymuch.


  49. theoutsider
    50 | December 4, 2012 10:14 am

    @ Rodan:@ Rodan:
    Trust me, There will not be any BIRTHERS on the left, challenging Susannah Martinez or Marco Rubio’s citizenship.


  50. 51 | December 4, 2012 10:15 am

    Rodan wrote:

    We have to compete for these voters. We have to deal with a dumb down electorate.

    Yes and no. The problem, as I see it, is that you can’t save people who a) don’t want to be saved, and b) don’t realize they even need to be saved.

    Obama’s appealing to people with his populist “getting back at the rich” schtick and the dumbasses are responding -- they’re too clueless to know they’ve been screwed until it;s far too late, and even then, they won’t accept that they’ve actually been screwed.


  51. 52 | December 4, 2012 10:16 am

    I’m still predicting that by this time next year, they’ll be looking at $100,000 a year for singles being “rich.” These supposed tax hikes on the wealthy won’t bring in enough money to make a dent. And let’s not forget that the investment income on anyone making over $200,000 ($250,000 for families) is going to get a bigger bite as well.

    No, the real prize they’re salivating over is the confiscation of the trillions in 401k investments, ostensibly (i.e., LIEING) that it’s all about getting rid of a tax deferment.


  52. coldwarrior
    53 | December 4, 2012 10:16 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:@ Rodan:
    Trust me, There will not be any BIRTHERS on the left, challenging Susannah Martinez or Marco Rubio’s citizenship.

    well, that is the truth.

    only our own idiots on the right will bring up the birther thing against those ‘two damned catholic mexicans’.


  53. 54 | December 4, 2012 10:16 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Then we need to learn how to manipulate people.


  54. 55 | December 4, 2012 10:17 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:@ Rodan:
    Trust me, There will not be any BIRTHERS on the left, challenging Susannah Martinez or Marco Rubio’s citizenship.

    No it will come from the Right with a wink, wink, nod, nod from the GOP Establishment. They want Porky Bush at all costs.


  55. coldwarrior
    56 | December 4, 2012 10:19 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    No, the real prize they’re salivating over is the confiscation of the trillions in 401k investments, ostensibly (i.e., LIEING) that it’s all about getting rid of a tax deferment.

    its only a matter of time.

    as a hedge, i and mrs coldwarrior have only invested after tax money, so i guess the govt can try and take my employers contribution???

    anything other than that is outright theft


  56. 57 | December 4, 2012 10:21 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Then we need to learn how to manipulate people.

    It’s like selling the responsibilities of adulthood to kids in junior high -- yeah, it’s doable, but it’ll require something cataclysmic to get their attention. Alas, that just might be in the offing.


  57. 58 | December 4, 2012 10:21 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    No, the real prize they’re salivating over is the confiscation of the trillions in 401k investments,

    That is the end game.


  58. 59 | December 4, 2012 10:22 am

    @ Rodan:

    I think you are just a touch paranoid on th eBush issue. I don’t think that there is any way Bush gets the nod in 2016. He’d lose in a landslide. People aren’t pining for the “Good old days” of the Bush Administration, though with the 5% unemployment and robust (relatively) growth people probably should be.


  59. 60 | December 4, 2012 10:22 am

    @ Rodan:

    Then color me gone. Boehner and the RINOs really don’t believe the 2006 election could happen to them again, do they? While I grant you that I think the country never wants to see Pelosi in the Speaker’s role again, they’re going to keep pushing conservatives and libertarians to the point where they are going to do what they did in 2006 and not vote for the GOP Congressional candidates (and Bonehead can weep his way back to the minority leader’s chair and doom the country). Boehner’s axing of conservatives from key committees is outrageous -- he really has forgotten who brought him to the dance, didn’t he?


  60. 61 | December 4, 2012 10:23 am

    @ MacDuff:

    What’s sad is that you, me, Speranza, Mars, Heysos and Coldwarrior have been brainstorming some great ideas to improve the GOP. But the people who really need to come up with these ideas, are not bothering. I think the GOP needs another defeat to wake up to reality. The country will suffer, but that is the result of a dysfunctional opposition.


  61. RIX
    62 | December 4, 2012 10:24 am

    Good morning. To me at l;east, none of this is surprising.
    He said that wanted to be a transformative president and
    he is bust transforming society.
    Egalitarian health care, meaning bad for everybody.
    Punishing taxes son that the Middle Class will be eliminated,
    leaving only the elites and everybody else.
    He will deplete our nuclear stockpile, so that the Russians
    and the Muslims can feel good about themselves.


  62. 63 | December 4, 2012 10:24 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Someone at my office asked about withdrawing all their 401k money out and putting it in a different shelter, such as an IRA. Of course, I believe most plans don’t allow this -- you can self direct the investments, but barring quitting your job you can’t.

    Another thing about 401k’s that are being lost on the Congress Critters is that the 401k can provide you with a quick loan source for home repair, home purchase or car purchase, especially since you pay the interest back to yourself instead of a bank. Wipe out the 401k and this benefit is gone as well.


  63. 64 | December 4, 2012 10:25 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    The Republican party is dysfunctional. Boehner will throw Conservatives a bone by proposing some social issue as law. That is what the GOP does. They cave on economic issues and try to trick Conservatives with social issue red meat. They have no intention of changing.


  64. 65 | December 4, 2012 10:26 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    I’m also really tempted to take my 401k contribution and stick it in my IRA instead.

    But you wait -- the IRA is also a tax deferment, so the government will look to confiscating that once the 401k money runs out -- I’d say in about a year.


  65. RIX
    66 | December 4, 2012 10:28 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:@ Rodan:
    Trust me, There will not be any BIRTHERS on the left, challenging Susannah Martinez or Marco Rubio’s citizenship.

    If there were, neither Martinez nor Rubio would spend
    millions to keep their birth certificates from view.


  66. 67 | December 4, 2012 10:28 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Even that is outright theft. It is not their money to take. We have to fight the notion that all money comes from the government, and they ar just kindly allowing us to use it. That is simply not true.


  67. 68 | December 4, 2012 10:29 am

    @ Rodan:

    Rasmussen shows that current polling has the Democrats with a 9 point lead in the generic Congressional ballot. While I’ll admit that it’s early, it’s still significant. Polling also indicates that people believe that Obama is more committed to handling the fiscal cliff than the GOP which is so much rat droppings it’s unreal. Obama’s proposal for the fiscal cliff solution gave him supreme powers and cut NO spending, in fact it increased it.

    However, when the new year kicks in, and people are caught in the Alternative Minimum Tax that increased their tax liability even if they’re middle class, we’ll see what happens. Also, we haven’t seen everything shake out on Obamacare yet. We may see some really angry angry taxpayers before 2013 is out.


  68. 69 | December 4, 2012 10:31 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    They have a better propaganda machine. Thanks to the Media-Entertainment Industrial Complex, the Democrats set the narrative.


  69. 70 | December 4, 2012 10:32 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    I still think the GOP needs to get its act together. People can be angry, but when the alternative can’t even sell water to a thirsty man, there’s a problem.


  70. livefreeor die
    71 | December 4, 2012 10:32 am

    Rodan wrote:

    theoutsider wrote:
    @ Rodan:
    He wants a deal and he wants a political win. He won the election. Why wouldn’t he want both?
    He wants a political win, no deal. Why should he want a deal? He just wants to continue to demagogue the GOP. If I were Republicans I would just agree to the tax rates for those under 500,000 and walk away. Then deal with the debt ceiling next year. I would propose a 30% tax on entertainment and sports profits. Obama will decline that and then he could be hammered for it. But the GOP is too stupid to pull it off. They should just walk away.

    I like that plan. It was suggested on a blog yesterday (I have to find which one) that all the Republicans vote “present” on any deal involving tax hikes and make the Democrats own it. It would be entertaining to see how 0 and Reid would handle that.


  71. coldwarrior
    72 | December 4, 2012 10:32 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Even that is outright theft. It is not their money to take. We have to fight the notion that all money comes from the government, and they ar just kindly allowing us to use it. That is simply not true.

    any govt powerful enough to grant you wealth is powerful enough to take that wealth.

    anything tax deferred is given by the grace of fedgov.

    i can see the supremes allowing the confiscation of pre-tax 401k, but after tax 401k money? that would be ridiculous.


  72. 73 | December 4, 2012 10:33 am

    @ Rodan:

    Never has our loss of Andy Breitbart been more apparent than in the culture wars. Greg Gutfeld is a worthy successor, but he needs more exposure.


  73. 74 | December 4, 2012 10:34 am

    @ livefreeor die:

    I agree, let Obama own it.


  74. coldwarrior
    75 | December 4, 2012 10:34 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    However, when the new year kicks in, and people are caught in the Alternative Minimum Tax that increased their tax liability even if they’re middle class, we’ll see what happens. Also, we haven’t seen everything shake out on Obamacare yet. We may see some really angry angry taxpayers before 2013 is out.

    i cant wait to see the low info voters faces.

    pay up, beeatches!


  75. 76 | December 4, 2012 10:35 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    It is what it is. This will be a decade of darkness. A powerful political machine whose opponents are a bunch of fools. I don’t see anything improving until the 2020′s.


  76. livefreeor die
    77 | December 4, 2012 10:36 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    What’s sad is that you, me, Speranza, Mars, Heysos and Coldwarrior have been brainstorming some great ideas to improve the GOP. But the people who really need to come up with these ideas, are not bothering. I think the GOP needs another defeat to wake up to reality. The country will suffer, but that is the result of a dysfunctional opposition.

    On a number of blogs there have been other great ideas too. It would be a gargantuan task but I’m up for helping out with it-we should organize amongst the blogs and maybe have one blog focus on entitlement reform, one on threats to private retirement accounts, etc. and what we, the “common folk” can do to pressure our officials or find new ones to effect the needed changes.


  77. 78 | December 4, 2012 10:37 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    While we’re at it -- why hasn’t the Earned Income Tax Credit been put on the table, at least insofar as the provisions that give these people a check over and above the moneys they’ve paid in?


  78. coldwarrior
    79 | December 4, 2012 10:37 am

    livefreeor die wrote:

    On a number of blogs there have been other great ideas too. It would be a gargantuan task but I’m up for helping out with it-we should organize amongst the blogs and maybe have one blog focus on entitlement reform, one on threats to private retirement accounts, etc. and what we, the “common folk” can do to pressure our officials or find new ones to effect the needed changes.

    TEA party action.

    go to a meeting. get involved.


  79. livefreeor die
    80 | December 4, 2012 10:38 am

    @ coldwarrior:
    But we also need to organize on the internet better as well. People may not go to a meeting YET but they might be able to get involved through blogs’ actions.


  80. 81 | December 4, 2012 10:38 am

    @ Rodan:

    Absolutely. They want this, let them have it. They make a big deal of Obama’s “proposal” but no one goes into the details that it was completely unworkable, made no sense and gave him powers outside the Constitution. However, the GOP counter proposal is dismissed from the git-go.


  81. coldwarrior
    82 | December 4, 2012 10:39 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    While we’re at it — why hasn’t the Earned Income Tax Credit been put on the table, at least insofar as the provisions that give these people a check over and above the moneys they’ve paid in?

    the idiot wbush sewed the seeds for that one.

    bread and circuses.


  82. 83 | December 4, 2012 10:40 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Personally, I think the TEA Party’s going to be bigger this time than last. Health care is about to get ugly -- it’s not just in the abstract anymore. Seniors are about to find out that Obama and the Democrats lied through their asses to them and that Paul Ryan was right.


  83. coldwarrior
    84 | December 4, 2012 10:40 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    i can see the supremes allowing the confiscation of pre-tax 401k, but after tax 401k money? that would be ridiculous.

    why do i say that?

    that money isnt yours until you pay taxes on it.


  84. 85 | December 4, 2012 10:40 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    The Media-Industrial Complex has twisted things. We live ina virual dictatorship.


  85. livefreeor die
    86 | December 4, 2012 10:40 am

    @ Carolina Girl:
    He’s toying with us. Slamming him back with something that puts the onus on the Democrats would wipe that smirk off his face for at least a day or two.

    The Republicans should also insist on staying in town to negotiate over the holidays. Ruin Bammy’s Hawaiian vacation.


  86. 87 | December 4, 2012 10:42 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    How so with Bush? I recall doing a neighbor’s taxes for her and she got a rebate of $500 above what she paid in for taxes -- this was in 1996. In fact I kept thinking I was doing something wrong until she told me that she in fact got this pretty much every year.


  87. coldwarrior
    88 | December 4, 2012 10:42 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Personally, I think the TEA Party’s going to be bigger this time than last. Health care is about to get ugly — it’s not just in the abstract anymore. Seniors are about to find out that Obama and the Democrats lied through their asses to them and that Paul Ryan was right.

    i cant wait.

    i look forward to looking a family in the eye and saying, take your grandma home. here is her morphine, oh and bring back the wheelchair after she dies or we will bill you for it. too bad, we could have extended her life a good ten years with a simple operation and some meds, but hey, we all have obamacare now, comrades!


  88. 89 | December 4, 2012 10:43 am

    @ livefreeor die:

    All you need to know about the media and it’s belief in the liberal mindset was the fact that Bob Costas made those anti-gun comments during a football game and thought the audience would agree with him, and that there would be no backlash.

    Sorry Bob -- most football watchers aren’t libturds.


  89. 90 | December 4, 2012 10:44 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Bush increased the EITC and took lower income people off the tax rolls.


  90. coldwarrior
    91 | December 4, 2012 10:45 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    How so with Bush? I recall doing a neighbor’s taxes for her and she got a rebate of $500 above what she paid in for taxes — this was in 1996. In fact I kept thinking I was doing something wrong until she told me that she in fact got this pretty much every year.

    2001, he expanded it massively.


  91. livefreeor die
    92 | December 4, 2012 10:45 am

    @ Carolina Girl:
    Especially during a Sunday night game with a Texas based team. Now’s he’s trying to backpedal.
    Hey, Bob, go ask your old buddy, OJ, how gun control protects women from domestic violence.


  92. 93 | December 4, 2012 10:45 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    I am convinced that the Republican “Elites” would rather be the minority party than have to work with the base. The shere contempt that they have for their base is breathtaking. It is no wonder that they lose elections. You have to cultivate your base. It is the base that wins elections, as Barack Obama just proved. This is not rocket science. They can’t win enough of th esquishy middle to win an election if their base stays home.


  93. coldwarrior
    94 | December 4, 2012 10:46 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    no malibu office for outsider i guess.


  94. 95 | December 4, 2012 10:46 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    All in the name of God’s compassion. Bush was a Religious Socialist in the mold of Williams Jennings Bryan.


  95. 96 | December 4, 2012 10:48 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    The problem is the base is divided. It’s not one big monolithic group. The GOP elites manipulate one part of the base to go after another part. It’s a sick game they have been playing.


  96. coldwarrior
    97 | December 4, 2012 10:49 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    The problem is the base is divided. It’s not one big monolithic group. The GOP elites manipulate one part of the base to go after another part. It’s a sick game they have been playing.

    gop, conservatives need not apply.


  97. 98 | December 4, 2012 10:50 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    @ Rodan:

    Thanks guys. Something I need to research. Mercy Bookoos.


  98. 99 | December 4, 2012 10:51 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Interesting you should say that. Rush Limbaugh has stated over the years that he believes for some reason that the GOP loves being the minority party.


  99. 100 | December 4, 2012 10:52 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Conservatives defended Bush no matter what he did. If anyone on the Right criticized him, like William F Buckley, they were shunned and ignored. I will never forget the fanaticism of Bushbots when I would bring up his Leftist policies.

    What the Bushies did to Buckley I will never forgive.


  100. 101 | December 4, 2012 10:55 am

    Rodan wrote:

    I don’t see anything improving until the 2020′s

    By 2025, the gig is up. We’ll be Greece without the bailouts, and Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and ObamaCare will be the entire budget other than interest on the debt. It simply isn’t sustainable for much longer than that. IF it can make it that long.


  101. 102 | December 4, 2012 10:56 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    It’s not sustainable. But The Democrats don’t care and the Republicans are dysfunctional. Maybe the Gig is already up and we just don’t see the end yet.


  102. 103 | December 4, 2012 11:01 am

    @ Rodan:

    Too much debt and no workable solutions at this point. You could confiscate all the wealth in the country and it wouldn’t run the government for a year, much less pay down any of the debt. How would merely TAXING it change anything?


  103. 104 | December 4, 2012 11:05 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    It will change nothing. Obama just wants to make people feel better.


  104. unclassifiable
    105 | December 4, 2012 11:06 am

    Look I understand the desire to win but at what cost?

    Do we pander to the ignorance at large or do we encourage people to get smart -- educate yourself.
    even the poorest neighborhoods in the country have libraries and Internet access (and conservatives still have access)?

    Are we ashamed of successful rich conservatives or should we be promoting them? The numbers are against you being a rich athlete or entertainer. But everyone does business.

    Don’t talk down to folks. Promote your education and intelligence. We want those folks who want to catch up. We need to be the high performance party.

    This IMHO is the way -- the Tao.


  105. yenta-fada
    106 | December 4, 2012 11:08 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    Paul Ryan would signal that we are serious about the debt, but I am not really sensing that the Party Apparatchiks are serious about the debt. To them it is just a talking point, devoid of any real consequences. They are going to be shocked when we hold a bond sale and there are no buyers at the interest rates we want to give. I guess they think we’ll just print the money because that worked out so swell for Zimbabwe and the Weimar Republic…

    Yesterday, someone (sorry, I forgot whom) aptly observed that the two parties are like two guys arguing about the bar bill on the Titanic. It’s all disturbingly amazing.

    I quoted that. *Canadians don’t get no respect*


  106. theoutsider
    107 | December 4, 2012 11:09 am

    @ Rodan:@ Rodan:
    Buckley was honest after all. He said the Iraq war was a failure.


  107. 108 | December 4, 2012 11:12 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:@ Rodan:
    Buckley was honest after all. He said the Iraq war was a failure.

    Yup and he became a persona non grata for Conservatives. It’s sad one of the founders of the Conservative movement was an outcast for calling out a Socialist.


  108. yenta-fada
    109 | December 4, 2012 11:14 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    The Grabbermint wouldn’t have to confiscate tax sheltered money, they could just (by decree) turn that money into U.S. Treasury bills. They are already buying 90% of all T-bills with printed money.


  109. 110 | December 4, 2012 11:15 am

    We all seem to be awaiting a time when the American people will be horrified at what they’ve done and reject Obama in some fashion. I don’t think that time will ever come. 50+% of the electorate chose this path and, in January, 2017, he’ll be feted every bit as much as was Bill Clinton when he left office…..and probably more.

    Obama is destined for the pedestal of history, regardless of what chaos he will have wrought after eight years.

    There definitely are two Americas, those represented by people here, and the Obama constituency. They, unfortunately, are now in the majority. The wretched educational system, combined with an ideologically-driven media and entertainment industry have produced the ignorant sloths better known as the electorate circa 2012 and it’s going to get worse before it gets better.


  110. yenta-fada
    111 | December 4, 2012 11:16 am

    Oh, look. Swiss bankers get a minor slap on the wrist for manipulating interest rates and making scads on doing it.

    http://www.nasdaq.com/article/ubs-to-pay-over-450-million-to-settle-libor-probe-20121203-00132#.ULyvxob5uJo


  111. 112 | December 4, 2012 11:18 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Obama is destined for the pedestal of history, regardless of what chaos he will have wrought after eight years.

    No matter what happens, Obama will be a walking deity. After all, he is the first Black president and that alone is why he is treated as a god-king.


  112. yenta-fada
    113 | December 4, 2012 11:21 am

    Meantime, on another side of the planet, Asia plans a post-American rise:

    Post-US world born in Phnom Penh
    By Spengler

    It is symptomatic of the national condition of the United States that the worst humiliation ever suffered by it as a nation, and by a US president personally, passed almost without comment last week. I refer to the November 20 announcement at a summit meeting in Phnom Penh that 15 Asian nations, comprising half the world’s population, would form a Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership excluding the United States.

    President Barack Obama attended the summit to sell a US-based Trans-Pacific Partnership excluding China. He didn’t. The American led-partnership became a party to which no-one came.

    Instead, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, plus China, India, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand, will form a club and leave out the United States. As 3 billion Asians become prosperous, interest fades in the prospective contribution of 300


  113. yenta-fada
    114 | December 4, 2012 11:24 am

    @ yenta-fada:

    Sorry to have cut off a snip from this slow-loading article. As to the agenda of this source, I cannot speak about it. The sheer facts, however, remain and can be checked.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/NK27Dj02.html


  114. 115 | December 4, 2012 11:25 am

    @ yenta-fada:

    We need to get a Hemipsheric alliance of our won. But I don’t see it happening.


  115. yenta-fada
    116 | December 4, 2012 11:26 am

    I don’t mean to be a downer, but I think people must internationalize their savings to retain purchasing power. I might have mentioned that before./////


  116. yenta-fada
    117 | December 4, 2012 11:30 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:

    We need to get a Hemipsheric alliance of our won. But I don’t see it happening.

    South America has too many socialist/commies, and Canada is probably just experiencing a temporary moment of sanity with Harper at the head. I certainly wouldn’t count on everybody suddenly turning into Capitalists. Be your own bank.


  117. 118 | December 4, 2012 11:34 am

    @ yenta-fada:

    The only Socialist countries in South America are Venezuela, Bolivia, Argentina and Ecuador. The rest of the continent is Free Market. That is why the Latin economies are booming right now. In fact, they are less Socialist than the US.

    Either way it will not happen. The elites of both the Democrats and Republicans are paid off by Mideast interest.


  118. 119 | December 4, 2012 11:35 am

    Rodan wrote:

    No matter what happens, Obama will be a walking deity. After all, he is the first Black president and that alone is why he is treated as a god-king.

    Exactly. Four years after he was originally elected, many have still failed to grasp that we, as Republicans, are simply not playing the same game as Democrats. It’s no longer about politics…..


  119. yenta-fada
    120 | December 4, 2012 11:38 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:

    The only Socialist countries in South America are Venezuela, Bolivia, Argentina and Ecuador. The rest of the continent is Free Market. That is why the Latin economies are booming right now. In fact, they are less Socialist than the US.

    Either way it will not happen. The elites of both the Democrats and Republicans are paid off by Mideast interest.

    Brazil, while rich in resources and making big strides, still has Socialist leadership afaik. BRIC will ally with the rising powers and not focus on Latin America imo. You are right about the money pot of ME oil producers.


  120. Prebanned
    121 | December 4, 2012 11:43 am

    I could see a world where the USA has to pay Carbon and Trade Reparations.
    Wanna bet if there was a worldwide tax the USA would pay most of it?


  121. 122 | December 4, 2012 11:44 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    It’s no longer about politics…..

    Politics is War. The Democrats get that. The Republicans do not. The end game for the Democrats is the collapse of the Republic. The goal of the Republicans (the Conservatives, anyway) is a return to the Republic. We have to craft our strategy with that goal in mind. We don’t have any real strategic thinkers on our side. The Democrats have been playing the long game all my life, and they are winning because of it.


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