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Husband of Labour MP got poor care and died neglected under UK national healthcare

by 1389AD ( 225 Comments › )
Filed under Healthcare, UK at December 5th, 2012 - 3:00 pm

Socialized medicine is no medicine at all – not even for the socialists themselves.

MP Ann Clwyd and Owen Roberts

Says citizen_q:

These stories about the NHS failures in the UK really push my buttons. The people pushing to nationalize our healthcare admire the NHS. I like how the hospital offered to investigate after the patient died. It sounds to me like the disingenuous calls by comrade zero and klinton after Benghazi.

Investigations don’t bring back the dead.

My husband died like a battery hen, frightened, cold and ignored by hospital staff: MP’s tearful attack on NHS care

A senior MP broke down in tears yesterday as she condemned the ‘coldness, indifference and contempt’ of nurses she blames for her husband’s death.

Ann Clwyd said her beloved Owen Roberts died ‘like a battery hen’ after her repeated pleas for NHS nurses to help him were ‘brushed aside’.

Miss Clwyd, a Labour MP for 28 years, sobbed as she revealed she has nightmares over the way Mr Roberts died six weeks ago ‘from the cold and from people who didn’t care’.

At one stage, she said, her 6ft 2in husband was ‘squashed up against the iron bars of the bed’ and nurses cried ‘anybody for breakfast’ at the very moment that he passed away.

Her excoriating verdict on the NHS came as the chief nursing officer for England called for more compassion in hospitals. Jane Cummings said such values should be ‘embedded’ in public health care.

Miss Clwyd’s husband, a former head of news and current affairs at BBC Wales and an ITV executive, had multiple sclerosis and died, aged 73, on October 23 this year at University Hospital of Wales, in Cardiff.

She said he had hospital-induced pneumonia and nurses did not keep him warm or care for him.

The day before he died, she visited him from 2.30pm to 10.30pm, and wrote in a text message to a friend at 10.59pm: ‘No doctor has been to see him since this morning. Very few nurses around either. Not very happy with the set up.’ At 5am the next day she was called in and found her husband wearing an oxygen mask.

In an emotional interview on Radio 4’s The World at One, Miss Clwyd said: ‘He didn’t have any clothes over him, he was half-covered by two, very thin, inadequate sheets, his feet were sticking out of the bed at an angle, and he was extremely cold. I tried to cover him with a towel.

‘He was very distressed and totally aware of his situation and, although unable to speak because of the oxygen mask, he made it clear he was cold and wanted to come home. Well, a few hours later, he died.’

The 75-year-old MP for Cynon Valley claimed she had seen a nurses’ round only ‘once’ during her entire eight-hour visit the day before his death.

She said: ‘I kept asking people. I would go into the corridor and there were just no nurses around. I stopped one nurse in the corridor and asked her why he wasn’t in intensive care. She said, “There are lots of people worse than him”, and she walked on. I previously stopped another nurse and asked when a doctor had last seen him, and I was just brushed aside, and told a doctor had been to the floor but had not seen my husband, but she said, “We know what to do.”

‘Well I feel that “we know what to do” meant “do nothing”.’
[...]
Last night the hospital’s executive director of nursing, Ruth Walker, said staff had offered to meet Miss Clwyd so that a formal investigation could begin. ‘We take such matters extremely seriously,’ she said.

‘We will not tolerate poor care which is why it is so important that each incident is fully investigated so that we can drive up standards and provide patients and their families with the quality of care they need and deserve.’

More here.


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225 Responses to “Husband of Labour MP got poor care and died neglected under UK national healthcare”
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  1. eaglesoars
    1 | December 5, 2012 3:12 pm

    I have a girlfried in Cardiff. She got bronchitis, went to the emgergency room, and they refused to treat her. It was the weekend, after all


  2. 2 | December 5, 2012 3:17 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    I have a girlfried in Cardiff. She got bronchitis, went to the emgergency room, and they refused to treat her. It was the weekend, after all

    That is our future!


  3. 3 | December 5, 2012 3:19 pm

    The stories coming out of the UK are so egregious that it’s well beyond “inquiries” or “fixing”, as it has likely been from the start.


  4. 4 | December 5, 2012 3:23 pm

    @ Rodan:

    Dear Medicare recipients: This Is (what’s left of) Your Life!


  5. 5 | December 5, 2012 3:27 pm

    You don’t even have to look at the U.K, or Canada or anywhere else. All you need to do is look at the Indian Health Service, Medicare or the Veterans Administration to see what happens to those who must use government-administered health care.


  6. eaglesoars
    6 | December 5, 2012 3:27 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    The stories coming out of the UK are so egregious that it’s well beyond “inquiries” or “fixing”, as it has likely been from the start.

    Yeah. I read one recently where doctors talked about letting babies die. I hope it wasn’t true, but I had nightmares.


  7. 7 | December 5, 2012 3:27 pm

    You are wrong, though, 1389. The Socialist Elites will jet off to the Caymans or Costa Rica or maybe Mexico where, for cash money, they will be able to get world-class care. It is those of us in the middle, where we currently get if not world-class treatment then very excellent treatment, where we will see our healthcare essentially go away. Markets always work, anbd there will be a big market for medical tourism.


  8. 8 | December 5, 2012 3:31 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Colombia is also a growing destination for medical care. So is the Bahamas and Jamaica. Cash for treatment works. If Cuba ever opens up, expect that place to be a top destination.


  9. 9 | December 5, 2012 3:32 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    Dear Medicare recipients: This Is (what’s left of) Your Life!

    Take this pain pill and go away.


  10. waldensianspirit
    10 | December 5, 2012 3:33 pm

    ht wz:

    All People have religion


  11. citizen_q
    11 | December 5, 2012 3:38 pm

    The words Liverpool Care Pathway should send shivers down everyone’s spine.


  12. 12 | December 5, 2012 3:38 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    I dare those nuts to try to put one on a German Shepherd. Or a Doberman.


  13. 13 | December 5, 2012 3:38 pm

    @ Rodan:

    Yeah, the lites will always have healthcare. This guy could have gotten healthcare if he’d gotten on a plane and came to the United States. They’ll actually have to pay for it, but they are rich, so they can afford it. It is people like us that are going to bear the brunt of the ObamaCare cutbacks. All in th ename of “fairness”. It isn’t fair that we worked hard, put ourselves through school with majors we could find work in (took me two trys) and made lives for ourselves. Other people just skated by and got what they worked for, and since that is less than us, we should pay up. Last time I checked Johnny Depp had a much better bank balance than me. Why don’t we make him pay up?


  14. lobo91
    14 | December 5, 2012 3:39 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    You don’t even have to look at the U.K, or Canada or anywhere else. All you need to do is look at the Indian Health Service, Medicare or the Veterans Administration to see what happens to those who must use government-administered health care.

    I got a nice letter from the VA.

    Unfortunately, that’s all I got…


  15. texasam7
    15 | December 5, 2012 3:40 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    Goddamn right. They’re not going to wait in line with the rest of us proles.


  16. citizen_q
    16 | December 5, 2012 3:43 pm

    @ eaglesoars:
    I believe I read that same article. In it a doctor was quoting some rather gruesome aspects of the process, which for decorum I will not cite.


  17. heysoos
    17 | December 5, 2012 3:44 pm

    “11-year-old daughter is being treated in Mexico and authorities considered bringing child neglect charges against the family.”

    pretty provocative I’d say
    http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Father-Sick-girl-safe-and-being-treated-in-Mexico-4091875.php


  18. lobo91
    18 | December 5, 2012 3:44 pm

    texasam7 wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Goddamn right. They’re not going to wait in line with the rest of us proles.

    Most truly rich people have personal physicians, anyway. And if they don’t now, they will.


  19. lobo91
    19 | December 5, 2012 3:46 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    “11-year-old daughter is being treated in Mexico and authorities considered bringing child neglect charges against the family.”

    pretty provocative I’d say
    http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Father-Sick-girl-safe-and-being-treated-in-Mexico-4091875.php

    Yeah, because if my seriously ill child were in a US hospital, taking her to Mexico for treatment is the first thing I’d think of doing…
    //


  20. 20 | December 5, 2012 3:46 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    I got a nice letter from the VA.

    Unfortunately, that’s all I got…

    A lot of politicians of both stripes use their military service as “cred but don’t do a damned thing when and where it counts.


  21. 21 | December 5, 2012 3:48 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Most truly rich people have personal physicians, anyway. And if they don’t now, they will.

    “Personal Care Contracting” of some sort MUST a smoking hot investment right now.


  22. 22 | December 5, 2012 3:49 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I wish the GOP would point out the Democrats are creating a feudal caste system. But they are not the stupid Party for nothing!


  23. texasam7
    23 | December 5, 2012 3:49 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    The attitude of the white wine socialists when it comes to providing healthcare is a textbook case of “screw you, I’m all right, Jack”.


  24. 24 | December 5, 2012 3:49 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Yeah the day probably will come where that would be the most protective thing you could do for your kid, but right now that isn’t the case. Before the government started fucing it up, America had the best health care in the world. We still do for now, but ObamaCare will take care of that.


  25. lobo91
    25 | December 5, 2012 3:50 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    I got a nice letter from the VA.

    Unfortunately, that’s all I got…

    A lot of politicians of both stripes use their military service as “cred but don’t do a damned thing when and where it counts.

    I’m sure it will be much better come January…
    //


  26. heysoos
    26 | December 5, 2012 3:51 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    “11-year-old daughter is being treated in Mexico and authorities considered bringing child neglect charges against the family.”
    pretty provocative I’d say
    http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Father-Sick-girl-safe-and-being-treated-in-Mexico-4091875.php

    Yeah, because if my seriously ill child were in a US hospital, taking her to Mexico for treatment is the first thing I’d think of doing…
    //

    that’s neither here nor there…there is quality care to be found down there…it’s the neglect charges…maybe the girl lost her arm to neglect….I had to have a second amputation of my leg due to poor nursing and not following clear Dr’s instructions…shit happens…I’m not pitching Mexican health care but neglect charges seems draconian


  27. 27 | December 5, 2012 3:51 pm

    @ Rodan:

    LIke I’ve said, I don’t think the GOP “elites” want to win. They are quite content to be the opposition as long as they get invited to the right parties. They’d much rather be the opposition than actually work with their base.


  28. 28 | December 5, 2012 3:51 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    I might look into that for investment opportunities.


  29. 29 | December 5, 2012 3:51 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    LIke I’ve said, I don’t think the GOP “elites” want to win. They are quite content to be the opposition as long as they get invited to the right parties. They’d much rather be the opposition than actually work with their base.

    I totally believe you! I am convinced they love ruling over their little fiefdom.


  30. heysoos
    30 | December 5, 2012 3:55 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    @ Rodan:
    LIke I’ve said, I don’t think the GOP “elites” want to win. They are quite content to be the opposition as long as they get invited to the right parties. They’d much rather be the opposition than actually work with their base.

    I totally believe you! I am convinced they love ruling over their little fiefdom.

    and to have the fiefdom, it’s imperative to get re-elected


  31. 31 | December 5, 2012 3:56 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    I might look into that for investment opportunities.

    You just have to wonder how many people were pushing this healthcare fiasco while they were setting themselves up to make a killing on some sort of “Personal Care Contracting” start-ups, don’t you?


  32. 32 | December 5, 2012 3:56 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Yep lobo -- while I’ve heard others give horror stories on various shows — I wrote that thinking of the ordeal you’d just gone through.


  33. texasam7
    33 | December 5, 2012 3:57 pm

    @ Rodan:
    A new party might be the only long term option. It worked in Canada, but it did take awhile.


  34. bluliner10
    34 | December 5, 2012 3:58 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Rodan wrote:
    I might look into that for investment opportunities.
    You just have to wonder how many people were pushing this healthcare fiasco while they were setting themselves up to make a killing on some sort of “Personal Care Contracting” start-ups, don’t you?

    No! Our elected representatives are of the very highest moral fiber, how dare you accuse them of insider manipulations….for shame! ///you know


  35. 35 | December 5, 2012 3:58 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    It would not shock me. I really am going to look into this.


  36. 36 | December 5, 2012 3:59 pm

    @ heysoos:

    Once you get to congress, though, you can usually keep your job. Most incumbants are re-elected. That is why the system generally stays the same. It takes a watershed year like 1994 or 2006 where a lot of people are mad to see a big turnover. 2010 saw it as well, but notice that things mostly stayed the same in the legislature in 2012. The Democrats picked up a couple of Senate seats, but that was about it. We’ll see what happens in 2014. If the GOP sells out its base again, we may see the Democrats take the whole shooting match as the GOP base stays home or defects to a third party.


  37. citizen_q
    37 | December 5, 2012 3:59 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    @ Rodan:
    With my tin-foil hat on, I sometimes wonder if it’s not so much that they want to lose or just rule a little fiefdom, but they are covertly complicit and the pay off is their little fiefdoms for playing ball. Hey they got theirs.


  38. 38 | December 5, 2012 3:59 pm

    @ bluliner10:

    That said, this is really something to look into. I am going to start doing research on this.


  39. bluliner10
    39 | December 5, 2012 4:00 pm

    @ Rodan:
    Health broker…hmmmm


  40. lobo91
    40 | December 5, 2012 4:01 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    Yep lobo — while I’ve heard others give horror stories on various shows — I wrote that thinking of the ordeal you’d just gone through.

    The whole sequestration thing will surely make it all better…
    //


  41. eaglesoars
    41 | December 5, 2012 4:01 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    I might look into that for investment opportunities.

    Here’s another for you that we’re looking into. Pet insurance.


  42. 42 | December 5, 2012 4:03 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    There is always a chance 2 Parties come out of the GOP. The base is not united. Heck we see this on this blog.


  43. 43 | December 5, 2012 4:03 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    I actually thought of that! I am dead serious.


  44. The Osprey
    44 | December 5, 2012 4:03 pm

    I wonder how many of the doctors and nurses in those hospitals are native Britons and how many are, ahem, “Asians” and how much that affects quality of care for elderly native Britons.

    If the hospital staff are Muzz I would imagine a lot of them are less than caring about aging and sick “infidels”.


  45. bluliner10
    45 | December 5, 2012 4:04 pm

    @ lobo91:
    But but they hired more people, improved the digital storage, they invested far more money than BOOOOSSHHH ever did…yet somehow the whole VA process has doubled the processing time, and really has been a serious disservice to Reservists. But that is what you get when your VA Director’s sole military accolade was the fine beret’s he got for the Army so they can all feel special…


  46. 46 | December 5, 2012 4:06 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    You answered your question, dear Watson!


  47. 47 | December 5, 2012 4:06 pm

    @ bluliner10:

    It’s about feelings, not results for the Left!


  48. RIX
    48 | December 5, 2012 4:07 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    Most truly rich people have personal physicians, anyway. And if they don’t now, they will.

    “Personal Care Contracting” of some sort MUST a smoking hot investment right now.

    That is “concierge medicine” and It’s really hot right now.
    Some doctors are opting out of the traditional system.
    If you can afford it, you give the provider a retainer and
    then pay out of pocket for care.
    For that you get fast , attentive service.
    We are heading to a two tier system & if you are not in the
    first tier, it’s not good.


  49. coldwarrior
    49 | December 5, 2012 4:07 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Colombia is also a growing destination for medical care. So is the Bahamas and Jamaica. Cash for treatment works. If Cuba ever opens up, expect that place to be a top destination.

    and costa rica

    sounds like a nice places to go work…

    hmmmm…..


  50. citizen_q
    50 | December 5, 2012 4:08 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    and to have the fiefdom, it’s imperative to get re-elected

    Jesse Jackson Jr. just got re-elected from the loonie bin after having dissappeared for months with the FBI investigating him for fraud, FWIW.


  51. bluliner10
    51 | December 5, 2012 4:08 pm

    @ Rodan:
    Absolutely…those damn Rangers thought they were so elite after all their hiking through Georgia and Alabama, without sleep and food, or swimming swamps without sleep…why the entire Army was entitled to that Black Beret and by (word omitted due to offensive religious symbolism) they got it…thanks General Shinseki! Genius!


  52. heysoos
    52 | December 5, 2012 4:09 pm

    it’s less about parties than it is about power/money, entrenched leaders, campaign and election fraud, voter apathy and the influence of the media….to have a successful govt we need to alter the environment, get voters enthused and informed and make them feel their votes count…nothing else matters imo….these things must change to ensure a healthy, honest bipartisan congress


  53. 53 | December 5, 2012 4:10 pm

    @ bluliner10:

    Feelings will be our undoing!


  54. lobo91
    54 | December 5, 2012 4:14 pm

    bluliner10 wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    Absolutely…those damn Rangers thought they were so elite after all their hiking through Georgia and Alabama, without sleep and food, or swimming swamps without sleep…why the entire Army was entitled to that Black Beret and by (word omitted due to offensive religious symbolism) they got it…thanks General Shinseki! Genius!

    The fact that he did that on his way out the door should have told them something…


  55. southwood
    55 | December 5, 2012 4:14 pm

    All you Americans with your holier than thou attitude to the UK’s NHS, note this: the NHS is revered in the UK. Sure there are, sadly, incidents like the one in the report but people have had and continue to get good treatment. An Englishwoman, not long ago, compared her treatment in an expensive hospital where the big stars go in Hollywood to her NHS hospital treatment when she returned to the UK. Guess which she said was better ? All you get in the States are sensationalist stories, especially in the better pay or die realm of the conservative media. That’s because that’s all you want to hear.


  56. RIX
    56 | December 5, 2012 4:17 pm

    The Osprey wrote:
    <

    blockquote>I wonder how many of the doctors and nurses in those hospitals are native Britons and how many are, ahem, “Asians” and how much that affects quality of care for elderly native Britons.

    If the hospital staff are Muzz I would imagine a lot of them are less than caring about aging and sick “infidels”.

    Coming soon to a hospital near you.
    We have a shortage of doctors now & we are now going to pour
    as many as 30 million more people into the medical delivery system.
    A lot of doctors will retire rather than accept reduced reimbursements
    and micro-management.
    So where will the doctors come from?


  57. bluliner10
    57 | December 5, 2012 4:19 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ bluliner10:
    Feelings will be our undoing!

    Possibly they lead to a renaissance. 2013 will be make or break for the Nation. It will cause a great conservative wave that really carries all the way to 2016, or will divide the Nation further.


  58. waldensianspirit
    58 | December 5, 2012 4:19 pm

    @ southwood:
    And you believe it’s going to continue being up to your par?


  59. coldwarrior
    59 | December 5, 2012 4:22 pm

    @ southwood:

    the story in question ran in the brit papers, it never ran in the US because our media would never ever touch these stories about socialized medicine. the brit papers carry these stories constantly.

    so, it isnt what we want to here, it is what is being published in the UK by the UK press for UK audiences.

    so, it isnt what we want to hear. it is what is reality. your doctors are being replaced by immigrant / muzz docs with lower training standards, your nurses are grossly overworked, and the system is second rate compared to the superior american system. WE in america make all of the medical breakthroughs and create all of the new surgeries and invent the medical devices that keep people alive.


  60. bluliner10
    60 | December 5, 2012 4:22 pm

    @ southwood:
    What did she get treated for?


  61. coldwarrior
    61 | December 5, 2012 4:23 pm

    RIX wrote:

    So where will the doctors come from?

    pick a muslim country.

    and there will be much more nurse practitioners acting as primary care doctors; fine by me. i’ll make a killing.


  62. texasam7
    62 | December 5, 2012 4:27 pm

    @ southwood:
    That’s exactly the problem. Even questioning a system that’s revered gets you branded a heretic. It happens here in Canada all the time because we’ve made our health system personal, a part of our identity.


  63. RIX
    63 | December 5, 2012 4:27 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    and there will be much more nurse practitioners acting as primary care doctors; fine by me. i’ll make a killing.

    That is the way to go. You are in the right place at the right time.


  64. eaglesoars
    64 | December 5, 2012 4:28 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    pick a muslim country

    I was given emergency room car by a muslim pakistani doctor and he was fabulous. Funny as hell and hands that were unbelievably gentle (after a nurse had inadvertently hurt me). Dr Joe. I didn’t want to leave!


  65. 65 | December 5, 2012 4:28 pm

    @ south wood:

    As I said above, the egregiousness and increasing frequency of these stories tends to indict the whole of the system.

    Were there anything even remotely resembling there occurrences in the American system, they would be publicized ad nauseum. There aren’t.


  66. lobo91
    66 | December 5, 2012 4:28 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    WE in america make all of the medical breakthroughs and create all of the new surgeries and invent the medical devices that keep people alive.

    For now.

    You can pretty much kiss that goodbye after Obamacare kicks in.


  67. coldwarrior
    67 | December 5, 2012 4:28 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    and there will be much more nurse practitioners acting as primary care doctors; fine by me. i’ll make a killing.
    That is the way to go. You are in the right place at the right time.

    i rather it not be that way tho.


  68. lobo91
    68 | December 5, 2012 4:30 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    I had first-rate care when I went in for surgery in Kuwait. That’s because I went to a private for-profit hospital.

    The government-run system there is awful.


  69. yenta-fada
    69 | December 5, 2012 4:30 pm

    In order to get a primary care Physician (GP) in Toronto, you pretty much have to know someone. The immigrants put enormous strains on the system, plus it’s VERY difficult to see a Specialist of any type in a reasonable amount of time. My GP only works part time and compares our Health System with Cuba and North Korea because he is so frustrated in trying to actually treat patients now that his cohort Specialists have all retired. My husband has had pretty good treatment for afib, but it wasn’t timely.


  70. heysoos
    70 | December 5, 2012 4:31 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    So where will the doctors come from?

    pick a muslim country.
    and there will be much more nurse practitioners acting as primary care doctors; fine by me. i’ll make a killing.

    exactly what my ex wife is preparing for…she’s about to cop her PA…before she retires she’ll make a killing


  71. coldwarrior
    71 | December 5, 2012 4:32 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    WE in america make all of the medical breakthroughs and create all of the new surgeries and invent the medical devices that keep people alive.
    For now.
    You can pretty much kiss that goodbye after Obamacare kicks in.

    advances in medical care WILL slow down.


  72. coldwarrior
    72 | December 5, 2012 4:33 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    pick a muslim country
    I was given emergency room car by a muslim pakistani doctor and he was fabulous. Funny as hell and hands that were unbelievably gentle (after a nurse had inadvertently hurt me). Dr Joe. I didn’t want to leave!

    they arent all bad, i think.


  73. yenta-fada
    73 | December 5, 2012 4:33 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:

    I had first-rate care when I went in for surgery in Kuwait. That’s because I went to a private for-profit hospital.

    The government-run system there is awful.

    Every time a doctor tries to run any kind of private service, they are hunted down like rats and destroyed by the left, the media (but I repeat myself) and the Medical Association. People are jealous if someone can afford better care.


  74. The Osprey
    74 | December 5, 2012 4:34 pm

    RIX wrote:

    So where will the doctors come from?

    To quote Obama, “Pocky-ston”!


  75. yenta-fada
    75 | December 5, 2012 4:37 pm

    texasam7 wrote:

    @ southwood:
    That’s exactly the problem. Even questioning a system that’s revered gets you branded a heretic. It happens here in Canada all the time because we’ve made our health system personal, a part of our identity.

    Yes, it is a source of national pride. My nephew by marriage is a physician in Newfoundland. As part of his residency, he has leave his family and spend time in areas that get very little medical service.


  76. RIX
    76 | December 5, 2012 4:41 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    So where will the doctors come from?

    To quote Obama, “Pocky-ston”!

    We have a winner! They treat the Taly-bon.


  77. RIX
    77 | December 5, 2012 4:44 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    Right, but you didn’t deal the cards & you have to earn a living.


  78. coldwarrior
    78 | December 5, 2012 4:45 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Right, but you didn’t deal the cards & you have to earn a living.

    true, unfortunately.


  79. yenta-fada
    79 | December 5, 2012 4:56 pm

    I did notice that Ann Clwyd herself served at least 4 years on the National Health Service Commission. (and presumably in the Health Bureaucracy in order to get there) Not that it hurts any less to lose a beloved spouse, but she worked actively to create the System that failed her.


  80. heysoos
    80 | December 5, 2012 5:00 pm

    hi ho
    hi ho
    it’s off the cliff we go…
    I liked most of this…
    http://spectator.org/archives/2012/12/05/planting-the-seeds-of-his-own


  81. coldwarrior
    81 | December 5, 2012 5:16 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    hi ho
    hi ho
    it’s off the cliff we go…
    I liked most of this…
    http://spectator.org/archives/2012/12/05/planting-the-seeds-of-his-own

    lets drive off the cliff.

    anything the fiscons do just pushes the problem downthe road. we have to have a majority of americans feel real pain before they will be motivated to fix the debt.


  82. waldensianspirit
    82 | December 5, 2012 5:18 pm

    we just experienced a driveby


  83. waldensianspirit
    83 | December 5, 2012 5:19 pm

    it told us


  84. coldwarrior
    84 | December 5, 2012 5:27 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    we just experienced a driveby

    lots of shell casings but no one wounded


  85. citizen_q
    85 | December 5, 2012 5:29 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    Almost violated my troll no response rule.

    Those who responded did much better than I would have.


  86. Bumr50
    86 | December 5, 2012 5:34 pm

    John Boehner has been way back in my mental ‘Most Hated Republican’ race, but boy is he coming on strong!

    GOP Rep: Boehner May ‘Target’ More Conservatives


  87. eaglesoars
    87 | December 5, 2012 5:34 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    lets drive off the cliff.

    That whole idea was driving RUSH over a cliff today. He banned callers who were advocating it. Something about hurting the people who least deserve it.


  88. lobo91
    88 | December 5, 2012 5:39 pm

    They should hold the negotiations next to an actual cliff.

    At the end of each day without an agreement, one random member of Congress gets tossed over the side.


  89. coldwarrior
    89 | December 5, 2012 5:39 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    lets drive off the cliff.
    That whole idea was driving RUSH over a cliff today. He banned callers who were advocating it. Something about hurting the people who least deserve it.

    so doing the same thing that we have been doing since the 80′s works how?

    rush is wrong on this one.


  90. coldwarrior
    90 | December 5, 2012 5:42 pm

    time for a thrid party, or a purge, pick one:

    FreedomWorks Pres. and CEO Matt Kibbe today blasted House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) for purging fiscal conservatives who won’t vote for higher spending:

    “House Speaker John Boehner and the failed political establishment are purging House Committees of fiscal conservatives.

    “So far, Reps. Amash, Huelskamp, and Schweikert have been removed from their respective committees for refusing to vote in lock step with the Republicans on endless spending.

    “These members have been some of the most reliable votes for economic freedom and the Constitution, and they are now being punished for their loyalty to their Oath of Office.

    “These statesmen have been fighting tirelessly for us, and now we must fight for them”:

    Rep. Tim Huelskamp (KS) -- Removed from the House Budget Committee (96% FreedomWorks Lifetime Rating).
    “Rep. Justin Amash (MI) -- Removed from the House Budget Committee (100% FreedomWorks Lifetime Rating).
    Rep. David Schweikert (AZ) -- Removed from the House Financial Services (96% FreedomWorks Lifetime Rating).


  91. eaglesoars
    91 | December 5, 2012 5:53 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    I’m for getting rid of Boehner as speaker at the very least.


  92. coldwarrior
    92 | December 5, 2012 5:54 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    I’m for getting rid of Boehner as speaker at the very least.

    thats a good prelude to the start of the purge.


  93. eaglesoars
    93 | December 5, 2012 5:57 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    I don’t know who I’d like to replace him tho. Cantor maybe.

    Hannity said these guys were removed because they didn’t vote w/the leadership often enough (they actually have score cards.


  94. coldwarrior
    94 | December 5, 2012 5:59 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Hannity said these guys were removed because they didn’t vote w/the leadership often enough (they actually have score cards.

    party over principles huh.

    how politburo of the leadership. the gop leadership are scum.


  95. waldensianspirit
    95 | December 5, 2012 6:01 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    I don’t know who I’d like to replace him tho. Cantor maybe.
    Hannity said these guys were removed because they didn’t vote w/the leadership often enough (they actually have score cards.

    What’s been before them worth voting on anyway. Pork barrels I’ll bet


  96. Bumr50
    96 | December 5, 2012 6:11 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Enough to make you sick.

    New GOP Committee Chair Open to Gas Tax Hike


  97. heysoos
    97 | December 5, 2012 6:21 pm

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Enough to make you sick.
    New GOP Committee Chair Open to Gas Tax Hike

    the herd mentality has taken over DC…people looking out for their asses, trying to decide their position…when you have no principle you have to make it up as you go along…our leaders are like pimps and whores on the streets looking for the best easy deal


  98. coldwarrior
    98 | December 5, 2012 6:22 pm

    @ Bumr50:
    @ heysoos:

    we need a purge.


  99. heysoos
    99 | December 5, 2012 6:25 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ Bumr50:
    @ heysoos:
    we need a purge.

    way long over due…I hate the feds for what they have brought down on us…it’s their invention, a game where nobody but themselves win…our leadership is pathetic, and the status of voters even worse….there is simply no more difficult scenario…we’re hosed bro, make plans


  100. 100 | December 5, 2012 6:25 pm

    I have excellent insurance with my employer. I work for a very large health care company in an executive postion. The IRS classifies me as a “highly compensated employee” and therefore I can’t be a part of the company’s 401K and I am in the “Senior Management Saving Plan”. Even still, I go to Mexico for the dentist. I needed an implant. My insurance pays $1000 for it and the going rate here is about $5000 total for the inplant and crown. I went down to see Pedro Vasquez in Nogales, to his very modern clinic, with a staff that speaks very good english, and got the implant for $1000 total, including the crown. I had a filling done for $35 and a complete crown on another tooth for $300. . . . and my insurance reimbursed me $1000 for the implant and good percentages on the other stuff. My daughters go to Pedro’s brother, Francisco Vasquez, for orthodontia. Francisco is highly trained, has a marvelous chair-side manner with the girls, helps them work on posture, bearing and other stuff like not breathing through their mouths. The latest “Speed Braces”, which here in town would be about $6000, are only $2500.

    Over the border medical care is going to BOOM! These two dentists provide excellent services in nice modern clinics at a fraction of the costs in the US.

    Down side: If they screw up, you can’t sue them. for an implant or braces, you naturally have to make several trips. We live close enough to Mexico that it isn’t a big deal. We park on the US side and walk across, or we drive the Suburban. I’m not comfortable driving my Benz down there.

    A good friend of mine is a retired dentist that practiced in Tubac, AZ, which is a few minutes from the border. His thoughts on Mexican dentistry is that he’s repaired teeth from bad American dentists and he’s repaired teeth from bad Mexican dentists . . . don’t go to a bad dentist.


  101. song_and_dance_man
    101 | December 5, 2012 6:26 pm

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Enough to make you sick.
    New GOP Committee Chair Open to Gas Tax Hike

    House Transportation Chair Rep. BillShuster said

    What a perfect name for the idiot.


  102. Mars
    102 | December 5, 2012 6:28 pm

    I try to go to the VA as little as possible. Recently I had a flare up of an incredibly painful problem. Remembering the horrors of the last time I had it (I honestly have flashbacks of the treatment) I begged family members for antibiotics until I found one with them.

    The problem: If I was a normal hospital patient I could request general anesthesia. As a VA patient they will only authorize a local.

    I will never go through that again, I’m literally shaking here remembering it.


  103. heysoos
    103 | December 5, 2012 6:29 pm

    @ father_of_10:
    my sister and brother in law have been getting all their dental work done in Mexico…my brother in laws false teeth are a masterpiece and fit him perfectly…they rave about their Mex dentist…walk in, do it, pay cash, done….across the border from Yuma, whatever town that is


  104. 104 | December 5, 2012 6:37 pm

    @ Bumr50:

    I hope the Koch Brothers, Grover Norquist and conservative talk radio primaries Johnny No-Balls’ ass out the door in 2014. And he can take that slimy sycophant Eric Cantsayno with him.


  105. 105 | December 5, 2012 6:40 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    “11-year-old daughter is being treated in Mexico and authorities considered bringing child neglect charges against the family.”
    pretty provocative I’d say
    http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Father-Sick-girl-safe-and-being-treated-in-Mexico-4091875.php

    Yeah, because if my seriously ill child were in a US hospital, taking her to Mexico for treatment is the first thing I’d think of doing…
    //

    Don’t laugh -- it may end up being the only care that people can afford.

    I know someone (an adult) who got a colonoscopy in Santiago, Chile -- for $300. Couldn’t AFFORD to have it done in the US.

    Chile cannot be considered a third world country. After all, they did manage to get their trapped miners out. In the US, that often is not the case.


  106. 106 | December 5, 2012 6:41 pm

    Oh my God…..via ZIP

    White House press secretary Jay Carney on Wednesday would not specifically address reports that President Obama is considering Vogue editor Anna Wintour for an ambassaorship to the UK or France, but he left the door open to such an unorthodox pick.

    Actually, I hear there’s an immediate opening in Iran. She can leave right away.


  107. heysoos
    107 | December 5, 2012 6:41 pm

    four years ago I cashed out my 401′s, sold my stock portfolio, sold a house, sold a piece of very expensive property, and last year sold off most of my beloved gold collection…set up multiple accounts, gave away most of my cash to relatives in five states and fell off the radar…as far as the IRS is concerned I’m destitute…this all took some clever planning and a long time to set up…so I have X amt of cash to live on til the end I guess, and I’ll sit here til I see an obvious good deal, which may never come…I have no income, no debt, and no optimism…when that cash is gone it’s a 9mm pill for me…I’m out of it


  108. 108 | December 5, 2012 6:43 pm

    father_of_10 wrote:

    A good friend of mine is a retired dentist that practiced in Tubac, AZ, which is a few minutes from the border. His thoughts on Mexican dentistry is that he’s repaired teeth from bad American dentists and he’s repaired teeth from bad Mexican dentists . . . don’t go to a bad dentist.

    Good point.

    BTW, I had good medical care when I got sick in Guatemala some years ago. Paid cash for it, cost very little money. But I remember hearing that dental care was not readily available. That was a few years ago.


  109. 109 | December 5, 2012 6:45 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Bumr50:
    I hope the Koch Brothers, Grover Norquist and conservative talk radio primaries Johnny No-Balls’ ass out the door in 2014. And he can take that slimy sycophant Eric Cantsayno with him.

    I like the Koch Brothers but I don’t trust Norquist. He’s a Muslim Brotherhood mole.

    But then, anybody who signed the no-tax-hikes pledge didn’t promise it to Grover -- they promised it before God.


  110. eaglesoars
    110 | December 5, 2012 6:45 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    an obvious good deal

    what would that look like?


  111. 111 | December 5, 2012 6:45 pm

    @ 1389AD:

    Chile cannot be considered a third world country. After all, they did manage to get their trapped miners out. In the US, that often is not the case.

    IIRC, it was some Americans that ramrodded getting them out…


  112. 112 | December 5, 2012 6:47 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:
    coldwarrior wrote:
    pick a muslim country
    I was given emergency room car by a muslim pakistani doctor and he was fabulous. Funny as hell and hands that were unbelievably gentle (after a nurse had inadvertently hurt me). Dr Joe. I didn’t want to leave!

    they arent all bad, i think.

    I’m not saying all Muslim doctors are bad -- just that all Muslim countries are.

    Not safe places for Orthodox Christians, or for counterjihad activists.


  113. eaglesoars
    113 | December 5, 2012 6:47 pm

    1389AD wrote:

    I don’t trust Norquist

    Norquist has a ‘schtick’ and not much else. I remember a few years ago when Frank Gaffney and David Horowitz wrote quite the piece on his Muslim connections. It was jaw-dropping.


  114. 114 | December 5, 2012 6:49 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ 1389AD:
    Chile cannot be considered a third world country. After all, they did manage to get their trapped miners out. In the US, that often is not the case.
    IIRC, it was some Americans that ramrodded getting them out…

    They hired some Americans to help, but it wasn’t exclusively an American effort.

    When mines collapse here, it ends up being a real mess a lot of the time. I figure it’s because miners get bad PR in the US and they are considered expendable.


  115. 115 | December 5, 2012 6:50 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    He was a little too close to Jack Abramoff for my taste -- but he’s got bucks and he hates taxes. He probably can be trusted to pony up some $$ to oust Boehner.


  116. Mars
    116 | December 5, 2012 6:52 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    1389AD wrote:
    I don’t trust Norquist
    Norquist has a ‘schtick’ and not much else. I remember a few years ago when Frank Gaffney and David Horowitz wrote quite the piece on his Muslim connections. It was jaw-dropping.

    Yeah, he and Gaffney are still at war over it. Norquist says it’s just a personal attack. However, Gaffney had names and dates so I tend to lean that way.


  117. 117 | December 5, 2012 6:54 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    IIRC, you asked me a while back about my insurance job. I sell life insurance, and (thank God) it’s NOT cold calls! I’ve got over 10 years in property/casualty insurance too.


  118. 118 | December 5, 2012 6:56 pm

    @ Bumr50:

    I’d say Boehner is leading from behind. Gee where’d he learn how to do that!


  119. 119 | December 5, 2012 6:57 pm

    Mars wrote:

    Yeah, he and Gaffney are still at war over it. Norquist says it’s just a personal attack. However, Gaffney had names and dates so I tend to lean that way.

    Norquist married a Palestinian Muslim. Mole much?


  120. Mars
    120 | December 5, 2012 6:58 pm

    1389AD wrote:

    Mars wrote:
    Yeah, he and Gaffney are still at war over it. Norquist says it’s just a personal attack. However, Gaffney had names and dates so I tend to lean that way.
    Norquist married a Palestinian Muslim. Mole much?

    Normally I could cut a little slack for marrying a muslim. But, a self-identifying “palestinian”. Nope. We all saw how that worked out so well in Britain with that Galloway jackass.


  121. eaglesoars
    121 | December 5, 2012 7:00 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    He was a little too close to Jack Abramoff

    I didn’t know that. Hubby, who is a lobbyist HATES Abramoff. Gave the entire profession a bad name.

    @ mfhorn:

    Oh good. cuz if I don’t see anything on caller id I recognize, I don’t pick up the phone. Cold calls are a tough way to make a living.


  122. heysoos
    123 | December 5, 2012 7:03 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    an obvious good deal
    what would that look like?

    land, pot…I have real estate in Jamaica that’s worth a lot…I don’t know, but I’ll look at anything that comes along…I could easily start another life in Jamaica, but that is a seriously violent place, and at my age I don’t know if I have the money or the chops to set up house anymore


  123. 124 | December 5, 2012 7:03 pm

    Mars wrote:

    1389AD wrote:
    Mars wrote:
    Yeah, he and Gaffney are still at war over it. Norquist says it’s just a personal attack. However, Gaffney had names and dates so I tend to lean that way.
    Norquist married a Palestinian Muslim. Mole much?

    Normally I could cut a little slack for marrying a muslim. But, a self-identifying “palestinian”. Nope. We all saw how that worked out so well in Britain with that Galloway jackass.

    It’s true all right.


  124. Da_Beerfreak
    125 | December 5, 2012 7:10 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Hannity said these guys were removed because they didn’t vote w/the leadership often enough (they actually have score cards.

    party over principles huh.

    how politburo of the leadership. the gop leadership are scum.

    We as a Country are fast becoming a one party state with two parties in name only thanks to the self-serving GOPe leadership (or lack of any real leadership). :evil:


  125. heysoos
    126 | December 5, 2012 7:10 pm

    @ 1389AD:
    without reading any of that, Grover has crossed the threshold and will soon be a footnote…Footnote Norquist, remember him?


  126. heysoos
    127 | December 5, 2012 7:12 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    eaglesoars wrote:
    Hannity said these guys were removed because they didn’t vote w/the leadership often enough (they actually have score cards.
    party over principles huh.
    how politburo of the leadership. the gop leadership are scum.

    We as a Country are fast becoming a one party state with two parties in name only thanks to the self-serving GOPe leadership (or lack of any real leadership).

    yup…look for the donks to more or less absorb the GOP


  127. 128 | December 5, 2012 7:17 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ 1389AD:
    without reading any of that, Grover has crossed the threshold and will soon be a footnote…Footnote Norquist, remember him?

    Grover who?


  128. Mars
    129 | December 5, 2012 7:17 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:
    coldwarrior wrote:
    eaglesoars wrote:
    Hannity said these guys were removed because they didn’t vote w/the leadership often enough (they actually have score cards.
    party over principles huh.
    how politburo of the leadership. the gop leadership are scum.
    We as a Country are fast becoming a one party state with two parties in name only thanks to the self-serving GOPe leadership (or lack of any real leadership).

    yup…look for the donks to more or less absorb the GOP

    Nope that will blow the whole plan. They have to keep the GOP as the “opposition” or their whole scheme comes unraveled. A fake opposition keeps the pop culture MSM obsessed public believing we are still the same system.

    The key to the coming totalitarianism is convincing people that it isn’t and that they still have a choice.

    It will have to be in place for some time before they can actually eliminate choices and elections.


  129. heysoos
    130 | December 5, 2012 7:18 pm

    someone should write a book regarding a comparison between the present US govt and the Luciano Syndicate…I’ll bet the similarities are stunning


  130. 131 | December 5, 2012 7:20 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    yup…look for the donks to more or less absorb the GOP

    They already have, as far as I can tell.

    It’s time to reboot the GOP. Disband the RNC, dump the party hacks, and start over again with entirely different leaders and staff.


  131. 132 | December 5, 2012 7:21 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    someone should write a book regarding a comparison between the present US govt and the Luciano Syndicate…I’ll bet the similarities are stunning

    Starting from the fact that the Chicago mob and the Chicago machine are still part of the picture.


  132. 133 | December 5, 2012 7:22 pm

    @ Macker:

    Get this —

    At a Business Roundtable meeting today, President Obama warned Republicans to not use the debt ceiling as leverage in talks over spending cuts or entitlement cuts. Obama told business leaders they “should not accept going through” that “game” which would be a “catastrophe” for the country.

    Congress is a co-equal branch of government, you dickless wonder. You’re not the effing KING. Got it. Remember that old song “Johnny Get Angry?” That’s what I’d wish Boehner would get! Hey Buzz -- this is taylor-made for you to get your mad parody skilz going!

    Oh, and because on THIS site, we always attribute -- H/T Weasel Zippers.


  133. 134 | December 5, 2012 7:23 pm

    @ bluliner10:

    You want something that’ll get your blood boiling, read “Throw Them All Out.”


  134. heysoos
    135 | December 5, 2012 7:25 pm

    Lucky in ’16!
    Luc-KY!
    Luc-KY!


  135. 136 | December 5, 2012 7:26 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Almost violated my troll no response rule.
    Those who responded did much better than I would have.

    Me too. I settle for trashing their sanctimonious asses via other poster. Like this clown today. I kept wanting to ask him how many Americans are running to the U.K. to avail themselves of their top-notch medical care? How many are flying Virgin Air in the other direction?

    Oh, and how much are you paying in TAXES, Sparky? You have more effing tax exiles than we do.


  136. 137 | December 5, 2012 7:28 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    Hell, Cantor’s the Sammy the Bull to Boehner’s “Gotti”.
    Unfortunately, I believe he’s already been re-elected Speaker at this point.


  137. heysoos
    138 | December 5, 2012 7:29 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Hell, Cantor’s the Sammy the Bull to Boehner’s “Gotti”.
    Unfortunately, I believe he’s already been re-elected Speaker at this point.

    heh…good one


  138. 139 | December 5, 2012 7:31 pm

    @ heysoos:

    Thank you, sir. I consider that high praise.


  139. Da_Beerfreak
    140 | December 5, 2012 7:37 pm

    Mars wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:
    coldwarrior wrote:
    eaglesoars wrote:
    Hannity said these guys were removed because they didn’t vote w/the leadership often enough (they actually have score cards.
    party over principles huh.
    how politburo of the leadership. the gop leadership are scum.
    We as a Country are fast becoming a one party state with two parties in name only thanks to the self-serving GOPe leadership (or lack of any real leadership).

    yup…look for the donks to more or less absorb the GOP

    Nope that will blow the whole plan. They have to keep the GOP as the “opposition” or their whole scheme comes unraveled. A fake opposition keeps the pop culture MSM obsessed public believing we are still the same system.

    The key to the coming totalitarianism is convincing people that it isn’t and that they still have a choice.

    It will have to be in place for some time before they can actually eliminate choices and elections.

    Of course the GOP will keep its opposition identity but in truth we will have two liberal parties that will be the two sides of the same socialist coin. Maintaining the false image of having two parties is what we are seeing now.


  140. heysoos
    141 | December 5, 2012 7:39 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Thank you, sir. I consider that high praise.

    oh please…I’m a lazy poster that can’t type more than two sentences…whereas you speak for me…I’m a dunce in comparison


  141. eaglesoars
    142 | December 5, 2012 7:39 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    Hell, Cantor’s the Sammy the Bull to Boehner’s “Gotti”.

    I’m not so sure. At least he’ll deliver a public rant about the Imperial Presidency which is more than Boehner will do.


  142. coldwarrior
    143 | December 5, 2012 7:41 pm

    THE BEST OATMEAL COOKIES EVAH! just came out of the oven…

    enjoy!

    :lol:


  143. heysoos
    144 | December 5, 2012 7:42 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:
    yes, I agree with that..’two parties’ is a very small facet to this wast trough of wealth that the feds drool over…if you are a conservative, the GOP is not your friend


  144. Da_Beerfreak
    145 | December 5, 2012 7:43 pm

    1389AD wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    yup…look for the donks to more or less absorb the GOP

    They already have, as far as I can tell.

    It’s time to reboot the GOP. Disband the RNC, dump the party hacks, and start over again with entirely different leaders and staff.

    The States created the FedGov in 1787. The States can get rid of the FedGov today if they wanted to. Piss off enough States and the FedGov will be replaced.


  145. coldwarrior
    146 | December 5, 2012 7:44 pm

    its called Sarin, and it is very nasty.


  146. Prebanned
    147 | December 5, 2012 7:47 pm

    Ann Clwyd said her beloved Owen Roberts died ‘like a battery hen’ after her repeated pleas for NHS nurses to help him were ‘brushed aside’.

    Be not deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

    Lots of people don’t get thier reward in this world, but for others, life is oddly circular.


  147. 148 | December 5, 2012 7:54 pm

    Tough shit about the NHS, but the Brits deserve what they have just as America deserves what it’s going to get.
    heysoos wrote:

    if you are a conservative, the GOP is not your friend

    If you are conservative America is not your friend. Mark Styne has commented that if America had mandatory voting the GOP would never win another election. It’s the poor and ignorant who will be worst hit, deservedly so since they are the lefts biggest fans, but we all get to be dragged down with them. I’m glad I’m old and lived through most of the best years of America instead of living through most of the coming decline.


  148. eaglesoars
    149 | December 5, 2012 7:58 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    its called Sarin, and it is very nasty.

    and scary. I keep hoping Assad can’t possibly be that stupid.


  149. coldwarrior
    150 | December 5, 2012 7:59 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:

    its called Sarin, and it is very nasty.

    and scary. I keep hoping Assad can’t possibly be that stupid.

    the more he uses, the less that will be in the hands of those who would use it on us.


  150. 151 | December 5, 2012 8:02 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    and scary. I keep hoping Assad can’t possibly be that stupid.

    What’s stupid about it? They set the stage when they tried Mubarak and sodomized Ghadafi before draging him through the streets. Unless Assad hightails it to Iran he wont fare any better so he will probably pull out all stops.


  151. coldwarrior
    152 | December 5, 2012 8:03 pm

    Rancher wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:
    and scary. I keep hoping Assad can’t possibly be that stupid.
    What’s stupid about it? They set the stage when they tried Mubarak and sodomized Ghadafi before draging him through the streets. Unless Assad hightails it to Iran he wont fare any better so he will probably pull out all stops.

    and he will use it on al-qeda and other nasties. so think of it as fumigation.


  152. Da_Beerfreak
    153 | December 5, 2012 8:03 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:

    its called Sarin, and it is very nasty.

    and scary. I keep hoping Assad can’t possibly be that stupid.

    Reports coming out of Syria indicate that the WMDs are starting to be prepared for use. Assad is reaching the point where he has nothing to lose. It has nothing to do with being stupid.


  153. Prebanned
    154 | December 5, 2012 8:07 pm

    A never ending war in the middle east between jihadist flavor A and jihadist flavor B, WINNING!


  154. eaglesoars
    155 | December 5, 2012 8:09 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Assad is reaching the point where he has nothing to lose. It has nothing to do with being stupid.

    What does he think the world will do if he releases that crap? Can’t let him live, that’s for sure. As for taking out some of our enemies -- yeah, but a lot of innocents.


  155. 156 | December 5, 2012 8:10 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    Cantor concurred with Boehner’s jettison of the conservatives -- he voted for it on the steering committee. Not as bad as Boehner, though, you are correct.


  156. huckfunn
    157 | December 5, 2012 8:12 pm

    Bob Costas was just on O’Reilly. Bob and Bill can both kiss my happy huckleberries.


  157. 158 | December 5, 2012 8:15 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    1389AD wrote:
    heysoos wrote:
    yup…look for the donks to more or less absorb the GOP
    They already have, as far as I can tell.
    It’s time to reboot the GOP. Disband the RNC, dump the party hacks, and start over again with entirely different leaders and staff.

    The States created the FedGov in 1787. The States can get rid of the FedGov today if they wanted to. Piss off enough States and the FedGov will be replaced.

    Some States won’t go along. For the rest, it’ll take a lot more than just talk. Think Second Amendment.


  158. eaglesoars
    159 | December 5, 2012 8:16 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:

    Cantor concurred with Boehner’s jettison of the conservatives — he voted for it on the steering committee. Not as bad as Boehner, though, you are correct.

    Can you think of a good candidate to replace Boehner?


  159. 160 | December 5, 2012 8:17 pm

    Prebanned wrote:

    Ann Clwyd said her beloved Owen Roberts died ‘like a battery hen’ after her repeated pleas for NHS nurses to help him were ‘brushed aside’.
    Be not deceived, God is not mocked, whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
    Lots of people don’t get thier reward in this world, but for others, life is oddly circular.

    True.

    As I mentioned -- socialized medicine never works, not even for the socialists themselves.


  160. Da_Beerfreak
    161 | December 5, 2012 8:17 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Assad is reaching the point where he has nothing to lose. It has nothing to do with being stupid.

    What does he think the world will do if he releases that crap? Can’t let him live, that’s for sure. As for taking out some of our enemies — yeah, but a lot of innocents.

    If Assad flees to Iran after using WMDs, what are the chances Iran will extradite his sorry ass to the West??
    (Slim and none are my bet and Slim has already left town.)


  161. 162 | December 5, 2012 8:17 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Cantor concurred with Boehner’s jettison of the conservatives — he voted for it on the steering committee. Not as bad as Boehner, though, you are correct.

    Can you think of a good candidate to replace Boehner?

    Paul Ryan.


  162. 163 | December 5, 2012 8:19 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Of course the GOP will keep its opposition identity but in truth we will have two liberal parties that will be the two sides of the same socialist coin. Maintaining the false image of having two parties is what we are seeing now.

    We already have that.

    It will continue until the GOP implodes entirely -- which will happen when people find better things to do with their money than sending it to the RNC or to the country-club-Republican PACs.


  163. eaglesoars
    164 | December 5, 2012 8:23 pm

    1389AD wrote:

    Paul Ryan.

    meh.

    He’s a numbers guy/policy wonk -- I’m not sure he has the leadership skills. And he wouldn’t have time to do the kind of work he’s been doing, which I think is too valuable to lose.


  164. Da_Beerfreak
    165 | December 5, 2012 8:25 pm

    1389AD wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Of course the GOP will keep its opposition identity but in truth we will have two liberal parties that will be the two sides of the same socialist coin. Maintaining the false image of having two parties is what we are seeing now.

    We already have that.

    It will continue until the GOP implodes entirely — which will happen when people find better things to do with their money than sending it to the RNC or to the country-club-Republican PACs.

    I stopped giving money to the State and National GOP years ago when it became clear that they were not going to fight the D’Rats in any meaningful way anytime soon.


  165. Da_Beerfreak
    166 | December 5, 2012 8:57 pm

    Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad’s order
    Looks like the wait to find out if Assad will use WMDs is about over…


  166. darkwords
    167 | December 5, 2012 9:00 pm

    @ 86 Bumr50: Cock block him and make him cry. Off the cliff.


  167. eaglesoars
    168 | December 5, 2012 9:07 pm

    “Speaker Boehner has been an abysmal failure as speaker, and his latest purge is the nail in the coffin for conservatives,” AMA’s Ned Ryun said in a statement. “Boehner has never won a negation battle with the White House or Senate—and he’s been nothing short of an embarrassing spokesman for the Conservative Movement. It’s time for him to go.”

    Ryun pointed out, too, that if conservatives want to unseat Boehner, they’d only need 16 members to abstain from supporting him in January. That’s because Boehner needs 218 votes to become Speaker again. Seeing as there are 233 House Republicans next Congress, and assuming no Democrats would vote for Boehner as Speaker, if 16 conservative Republicans abstain from voting, Boehner wouldn’t regain the Speakership

    Only 16 Members Can Unseat Boehner, Group Says


  168. eaglesoars
    169 | December 5, 2012 9:11 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad’s order
    Looks like the wait to find out if Assad will use WMDs is about over…

    this is going to be hideous


  169. Da_Beerfreak
    170 | December 5, 2012 9:14 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad’s order
    Looks like the wait to find out if Assad will use WMDs is about over…

    this is going to be hideous

    It’s to be expected now days. :evil:


  170. Lily
    171 | December 5, 2012 9:15 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:
    Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad’s order
    Looks like the wait to find out if Assad will use WMDs is about over…
    this is going to be hideous

    Indeed this is going to be bad. No way around it.


  171. Lily
    172 | December 5, 2012 9:15 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:
    Da_Beerfreak wrote:
    Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad’s order
    Looks like the wait to find out if Assad will use WMDs is about over…
    this is going to be hideous
    It’s to be expected now days.

    Unfortunately you are right.


  172. Da_Beerfreak
    173 | December 5, 2012 9:16 pm

    @ Lily:
    OT:
    Good luck at the “Plumbers”. :wink:


  173. Lily
    174 | December 5, 2012 9:18 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    @ Lily:
    OT:
    Good luck at the “Plumbers”.

    Triple by-pass Friday morning. Prayers surely needed.


  174. Lily
    175 | December 5, 2012 9:19 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad’s order
    Looks like the wait to find out if Assad will use WMDs is about over…

    Didn’t taken long.


  175. livefreeor die
    176 | December 5, 2012 9:19 pm

    @ Lily:
    I’ll be sending prayers your way all through Friday.


  176. Da_Beerfreak
    177 | December 5, 2012 9:21 pm

    @ Lily:
    You’ll get plenty, lot of Folks here are sending prayers your way. :grin:


  177. livefreeor die
    178 | December 5, 2012 9:21 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:
    Syria loads chemical weapons into bombs; military awaits Assad’s order
    Looks like the wait to find out if Assad will use WMDs is about over…
    this is going to be hideous

    Glad to see that 0 has improved our standing in the world to the point that dictators aren’t afraid to gas their own people.


  178. Lily
    179 | December 5, 2012 9:22 pm

    @ livefreeor die:

    Thank you very, very much. I’m rather scared…still in hospital..they will not let me leave they are afraid I’ll have another spell.


  179. eaglesoars
    180 | December 5, 2012 9:23 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Triple by-pass Friday morning. Prayers surely needed.

    We’re always prayin’ for ya Lily, you know that!


  180. livefreeor die
    181 | December 5, 2012 9:23 pm

    @ Lily:
    Glad they’re letting you on the computer! We’re here to virtually hold your hand through this.


  181. livefreeor die
    182 | December 5, 2012 9:24 pm

    Does Assad realize how using chemical weapons this time of year could really screw up Bammy’s vacation plans?


  182. eaglesoars
    183 | December 5, 2012 9:27 pm

    livefreeor die wrote:

    Does Assad realize how using chemical weapons this time of year could really screw up Bammy’s vacation plans?

    It’s Mooch that’s gonna be really pissed………..


  183. Mars
    184 | December 5, 2012 9:30 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ livefreeor die:
    Thank you very, very much. I’m rather scared…still in hospital..they will not let me leave they are afraid I’ll have another spell.

    Hadn’t heard, you have my best wishes too.


  184. Bumr50
    185 | December 5, 2012 9:31 pm

    @ livefreeor die:

    Not to mention the impact on the climate.

    //


  185. Bumr50
    186 | December 5, 2012 9:31 pm

    @ Lily:

    Prayers.


  186. Da_Beerfreak
    187 | December 5, 2012 9:33 pm

    livefreeor die wrote:

    Does Assad realize how using chemical weapons this time of year could really screw up Bammy’s vacation plans?

    On the other hand that might be why Baby Doc Baraq is heading to Hawaii… :cool:


  187. Lily
    188 | December 5, 2012 9:36 pm

    @ livefreeor die:
    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    Thank you all I’m really goin going to need it to get through this. ;)
    /it was bad news.


  188. Lily
    189 | December 5, 2012 9:38 pm

    @ Bumr50:

    Thank you! Now they are holding me hostage in the hospital since Tuesday!!!!! ;)


  189. 190 | December 5, 2012 9:40 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:
    @ Lily:
    OT:
    Good luck at the “Plumbers”.
    Triple by-pass Friday morning. Prayers surely needed.

    Prayers coming your way!


  190. livefreeor die
    191 | December 5, 2012 9:41 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    livefreeor die wrote:
    Does Assad realize how using chemical weapons this time of year could really screw up Bammy’s vacation plans?
    It’s Mooch that’s gonna be really pissed………..

    Well, she could always hang out in the White House with her 54 &*(&(^% Christmas trees. Oh, wait. I mean holiday bushes.


  191. livefreeor die
    192 | December 5, 2012 9:42 pm

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ livefreeor die:
    Not to mention the impact on the climate.
    //

    It’s super serial.


  192. Lily
    193 | December 5, 2012 9:43 pm

    @ 1389AD:

    Thanks so much. So very much.


  193. Calo
    194 | December 5, 2012 9:44 pm

    @ livefreeor die:
    She might need another painted Christmas ornament with Assad to put next to her Che ornament.


  194. Lily
    195 | December 5, 2012 9:46 pm

    Mars wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    @ livefreeor die:
    Thank you very, very much. I’m rather scared…still in hospital..they will not let me leave they are afraid I’ll have another spell.
    Hadn’t heard, you have my best wishes too.

    Yep not good news but they think they have a good chance at fixing the problems. I’ll just have to suffer through. Dammit. This is isn’t what I wanted to hear.


  195. eaglesoars
    196 | December 5, 2012 9:47 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Now they are holding me hostage in the hospital since Tuesday

    blech. Are you bored out of your head?

    {Lily}


  196. livefreeor die
    197 | December 5, 2012 9:48 pm

    Calo wrote:

    @ livefreeor die:
    She might need another painted Christmas ornament with Assad to put next to her Che ornament.

    She really is a piece of work, along with her husband. People are out of work. Food prices are through the roof. People have lost everything in hurricane Sandy. And these two buffoons are going on 4 million dollar vacations and blowing who knows how much for Christmas decorations. How about staying at the White House with one damn tree for the holidays?


  197. Lily
    198 | December 5, 2012 9:50 pm

    @ eaglesoars:
    @ eaglesoars:

    Thanks, thanks and thanks. I haven’t had the procedure done yet. Just stuck at the hospital because I have too many bloackages. If I have a heart attack it will kill me. So far that hasn’t happened. Which is a plus. I be okay up until surgery day….then I willbe off for a while then. I’ll make sure Calo gives you updates. And I cannot thank you all enough for the support.


  198. 199 | December 5, 2012 9:52 pm

    @ Lily:

    Hang in there Lily! We’ll all be praying and/or thinking good thoughts for you!


  199. Lily
    200 | December 5, 2012 9:54 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Now they are holding me hostage in the hospital since Tuesday
    blech. Are you bored out of your head?
    {Lily}

    A combination of bored and petridfied at the same time. This is going to be a biggie for me….scary terrority. But I am a walking time bomb from what the doc’s have said.


  200. livefreeor die
    201 | December 5, 2012 9:55 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    @ eaglesoars:
    Thanks, thanks and thanks. I haven’t had the procedure done yet. Just stuck at the hospital because I have too many bloackages. If I have a heart attack it will kill me. So far that hasn’t happened. Which is a plus. I be okay up until surgery day….then I willbe off for a while then. I’ll make sure Calo gives you updates. And I cannot thank you all enough for the support.

    {Lily}

    Is there any direction the thread could go to help take your mind off of things for a while?


  201. Lily
    202 | December 5, 2012 9:56 pm

    @ Macker:

    Thanks Macker so much…after the procedure..I’ll get word to Calo to let you guys know how I’m doning. I’ll be in ICU for 24 to 72 hours at first.


  202. lobo91
    203 | December 5, 2012 9:57 pm

    @ livefreeor die:


  203. 204 | December 5, 2012 9:58 pm

    livefreeor die wrote:

    Does Assad realize how using chemical weapons this time of year could really screw up Bammy’s vacation plans?

    Something tells me I should start making plans for Episode XXVI!


  204. livefreeor die
    205 | December 5, 2012 9:59 pm

    @ lobo91:
    C’mon, Bo. Pee on every single one of those trees.


  205. eaglesoars
    206 | December 5, 2012 10:00 pm

    Lily wrote:

    scary terrority

    lemme tell ya -- I’ve known several people who have had this surgery -- the medical advances since they first started doing this are astonishing. You’re going to be just fine.

    Your life is going to be SO MUCH BETTER so just get thru it, come back to us and to your family. We’ll all still be here and so will you.

    Besides, you’re in line for some really good drugs!

    :lol:


  206. eaglesoars
    207 | December 5, 2012 10:02 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ livefreeor die:

    Forget Bo. Did you really make Leia wear those ear things pictured in your avatar?

    I hope she bit you.


  207. Lily
    208 | December 5, 2012 10:06 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    I’d rather this not happen. darn it. But yeah I’ll get through. Just about all my family and friends are going to be here tomorrow.


  208. lobo91
    209 | December 5, 2012 10:09 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ livefreeor die:

    Forget Bo. Did you really make Leia wear those ear things pictured in your avatar?

    I hope she bit you.

    She wore them once for about 10 seconds.


  209. Lily
    210 | December 5, 2012 10:11 pm

    @ livefreeor die:

    Oh the drugs I was just given have liftened any thoughts for right now. LOL!
    /next I’ll have to take my sleeping meds soon! ;)
    /I’m scared but non-stop scared. The meds keep me in check. Thank goodness. :)


  210. Lily
    211 | December 5, 2012 10:15 pm

    @ lobo91:

    LOL! I can’t imagine Leia biting you over them…she was in the holiday spirit is all! ;)


  211. eaglesoars
    212 | December 5, 2012 10:23 pm

    Here ya go Lily. 12 minutes of politically incorrect hilarity.

    Just try not to fall out of bed laughing

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayh1LD-sNn8


  212. 213 | December 5, 2012 10:29 pm

    @ Calo:

    Think I’d get in trouble if I sent an ornament painted with a hand flipping the bird to her & Barry?


  213. darkwords
    214 | December 5, 2012 10:30 pm

    @ 198 Lily: My dad went through this three times over 25 years. The modern medicine is very good. Although he had to give up smoking and drinking and felt his social life hampered, his physical health improved after each surgery. And they let him keep an embroidered hospital pillow someone at the hospital gave him. Just take it slow and easy and do your part. Then trust and faith that God’s hand guides the healing. Will pray for you as such.


  214. taxfreekiller
    215 | December 5, 2012 10:41 pm

    Lily

    tfk and the ms pass the pray to you X 10 too

    they trick you with it, your looking at the floor or at a light bulb and then you wake up,

    how did I get here,

    sure feel gooddddddddddddddddddddddddd


  215. lobo91
    216 | December 5, 2012 11:10 pm

    I hope Leia doesn’t see this:


  216. lobo91
    217 | December 5, 2012 11:14 pm

    The driving dogs have a Facebook page, too.


  217. eaglesoars
    219 | December 5, 2012 11:22 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    The driving dogs have a Facebook page, too.

    SPCA does a lot of good work. They’ve helped bring dogs back to the U.S. that got emotionally attached to our military personnel.


  218. 220 | December 5, 2012 11:22 pm

    @ Mars:

    Gotta be a mistake. It should be a Christian parent whose son couldn’t memorize the Bible. Or a Tea Partier who tried to make the child learn the Constitution & all the racist terms for non-whites.

    ///


  219. Mars
    221 | December 5, 2012 11:27 pm

    mfhorn wrote:

    @ Mars:
    Gotta be a mistake. It should be a Christian parent whose son couldn’t memorize the Bible. Or a Tea Partier who tried to make the child learn the Constitution & all the racist terms for non-whites.
    ///

    No kidding. The funny part is it’s australian news, which I’ve found to cover up for the muzz even more than our press (if that’s possible). Note that they file it under bad parenting, not acknowledging the fact that it’s pretty much SOP for our muzz friends.


  220. eaglesoars
    222 | December 5, 2012 11:28 pm

    I’m watching a really good movie I never heard of. Safe House. Denzel Washington plays a rogue CIA agent. Released in Feb of this year.


  221. lobo91
    223 | December 5, 2012 11:34 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    Yeah, that was pretty good.


  222. eaglesoars
    224 | December 5, 2012 11:40 pm

    bedtime. nite everyone.


  223. 225 | December 6, 2012 4:59 am

    Goodness gracious, where did everybody go?


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