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Ulysses S. Grant’s redemption – from a scourge of Jews to a great friend

by Speranza ( 90 Comments › )
Filed under Anti-semitism, History at December 10th, 2012 - 8:00 pm

I always love stories about redemption and this is a great one. Grant’s initial actions show us the dangers of acting in haste,  anger, and without reflection – yet he was able to make atonement for it later on. Abraham Lincoln comes out looking heroic and wise in the story as well.

by Jeff Jacoby

In the American experience, anti-Semitic decrees have been virtually unthinkable. Religious liberty is enshrined in the Constitution, and early in his presidency, George Washington went out of his way to assure the young nation’s Jews that “the Government of the United States . . . gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance.” During the long centuries of Jewish exile, powerful officials had often promulgated sweeping edicts depriving Jews of their rights or driving them from their homes. In America, that could never happen.

But 150 years ago this month, it did.

In December 1862, with the Civil War raging, the Union Army’s efforts to control the movement of Southern cotton was bedeviled by illegal speculation and black marketeers. Like many of his contemporaries, Major General Ulysses S. Grant — then commanding a vast geographic swath called the Department of the Tennessee — shared a crude stereotype of all Jews as avaricious, corner-cutting swindlers. That ugly prejudice boiled over in General Orders No. 11, the most infamous anti-Semitic injunction in American history: “The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from this department within 24 hours.”

The region commanded by Grant was home to several thousand Jews (including men in uniform serving under him). Fortunately, General Orders No. 11 had little direct impact on most of them. Jews were driven out of Paducah, Ky., and some towns in Mississippi and Tennessee, and there were accounts of Jewish travelers being imprisoned and roughed up. But a breakdown in military communications slowed the spread of Grant’s directive, and at least some officers had qualms about enforcing it. Brigadier General Jeremiah C. Sullivan, the Union commander of Jackson, Tenn., commented tartly that “he thought he was an officer of the Army and not of a church.”

What stopped the expulsion order cold, however, was the commander-in-chief. When word of Grant’s edict reached President Lincoln on Jan. 3, 1863, he immediately countermanded it. “To condemn a class is, to say the least, to wrong the good with the bad,” the president declared. “I do not like to hear a class or nationality condemned on account of a few sinners.”

[.......]

As historian Jonathan Sarna relates in a recent book, “When General Grant Expelled the Jews,” Grant’s order did his military career no harm. Within a few years he was commander of all Union armies and the Confederate surrender at Appomattox made him a national hero. He was elected president in 1868, and reelected four years later.

Yet for the rest of his life, Grant was ashamed of having attempted to evict “Jews as a class” for offenses most of them had never committed. “What his wife, Julia, called ‘that obnoxious order’ continued to haunt Grant up to his death,” Sarna writes. “The sense that in expelling them he had failed to live up to his own high standards of behavior, and to the Constitution that he had sworn to uphold, gnawed at him. He apologized for the order publicly and repented of it privately.”

Not surprisingly, Grant’s order got a good deal of attention in the 1868 presidential campaign — the first time a “Jewish issue” played a role in presidential politics. Grant didn’t deny that General Orders No. 11 had grossly violated core American values. “I do not sustain that order,” he wrote humbly. “It would never have been issued if it had not been telegraphed the moment it was penned, and without reflection.”

But it was as president that the full extent of Grant’s regret became clear. He opposed a movement to make the United States an explicitly Christian state through a constitutional amendment designating Jesus as “ruler among the nations.” He named more Jews to government office than any of his predecessors — including to positions, such as governor of the Washington Territory, previously considered too lofty for a Jewish nominee.

Grant became the first American president to openly speak out against the persecution of Jews abroad. In response to anti-Jewish pogroms in Romania, he took the unprecedented step of sending a Jewish consul-general to Bucharest to “work for the benefit of the people who are laboring under severe oppression.” All in all, the eight years of Grant’s presidency proved to be a “golden age” in US Jewish history. When he died in 1885, he was mourned in synagogues nationwide.

It was a remarkable saga of atonement. From scourge of the Jews to their great friend in Washington; from the general who trampled Jewish liberty to the president who made protection of their rights a priority. [........]

Read the rest - Ulysses S. Grant’s greatest regret

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90 Responses to “Ulysses S. Grant’s redemption – from a scourge of Jews to a great friend”
( jump to bottom )

  1. eaglesoars
    1 | December 10, 2012 8:12 pm

    He opposed a movement to make the United States an explicitly Christian state through a constitutional amendment designating Jesus as “ruler among the nations.”

    What genius came up with that one?


  2. lobo91
    2 | December 10, 2012 8:20 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    He opposed a movement to make the United States an explicitly Christian state through a constitutional amendment designating Jesus as “ruler among the nations.”

    What genius came up with that one?

    If you ask Rodan, it was probably Rick Santorum…


  3. Speranza
    3 | December 10, 2012 8:27 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:

    He opposed a movement to make the United States an explicitly Christian state through a constitutional amendment designating Jesus as “ruler among the nations.”
    What genius came up with that one?

    If you ask Rodan, it was probably Rick Santorum…

    Oh that’s hilarious because Santorum probably would agree with it.


  4. Speranza
    4 | December 10, 2012 8:33 pm

    Although personally honest, Grant’s two terms was loaded with cronyism and corruption.


  5. Speranza
    5 | December 10, 2012 8:34 pm

    Sherman also had some strong anti-Semitic tendencies.


  6. Speranza
    6 | December 10, 2012 8:34 pm

    Not surprisingly, Grant’s order got a good deal of attention in the 1868 presidential campaign — the first time a “Jewish issue” played a role in presidential politics

    I guess they couldn’t blame AIPAC back then. /


  7. Speranza
    7 | December 10, 2012 8:36 pm

    I always admired his wife Julia Dent Grant. She was cross eyed and wanted to get an operation to fix it but Grant forbade it saying “I kind of like her that way”.


  8. Speranza
    8 | December 10, 2012 8:38 pm

    On his death bed in 1885, Grant received his pre-war friend, and Civil War foe, and later his friend again, former Confederate General Simon Bolivar Buckner. Buckner had surrendered Ft. Donelson to Grant in Feb. 1862 when Grant demanded “unconditional surrender”. Later Buckner’s son, Simon Bolivar Buckner, Jr. was killed on Okinawa commanding the U.S. 10th Army.


  9. 9 | December 10, 2012 8:39 pm

    @ lobo91:

    He definitely would try to do that.


  10. 10 | December 10, 2012 8:42 pm

    @ Speranza:

    I would love for Santorium to explain how he would create Utopia in America. He is on record of being against Individualism. I dread to think what Santorum would do if he had power.


  11. Speranza
    11 | December 10, 2012 8:42 pm

    Other Confederate Generals who were West Point friends or pre war army comrades of Grant were James Longstreet, John Bowen, Cadmus Wilcox, Harry Heth. In Mexico during the Mexican War, Grant met Robert E. Lee and John Pemberton (the Pennsylvanian who commanded the defense of Vicksburg and surrendered to Grant in July 1863). Grant also met as a West Point cadet a rather shy cadet from what is now West Virginia named Thomas J. Jackson later known as Stonewall Jackson.


  12. Speranza
    12 | December 10, 2012 8:48 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    He definitely would try to do that.

    He would if he could.


  13. waldensianspirit
    13 | December 10, 2012 9:00 pm

    http://www.ricksantorum.com/oped/resurrecting-religious-freedom

    yea, he’s a monster alright


  14. Mars
    14 | December 10, 2012 9:03 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    http://www.ricksantorum.com/oped/resurrecting-religious-freedom
    yea, he’s a monster alright

    Perhaps the region of the world with the most, and most severe, violations of religious freedom is the Middle East. Indigenous minority religious communities there, including Christians, are undergoing an existential threat. In Iraq and Egypt, we’ve basically abandoned them through our policies, despite perennial calls by human rights champions in Congress and elsewhere to come up with a comprehensive, integrated strategic foreign policy aimed at preserving them. In fact, throughout the region, groups associated with the Muslim Brotherhood and even more radical Islamist views are coming to power. Throughout the majority Muslim countries, religious minorities are being purged from lands they have occupied going back nearly 7,000 years. For these groups – the ones whose values, world view, and inclinations are most aligned with ours and who are our natural allies in the region – the part of the President’s heralded 2009 Cairo speech that extolled the importance of religious freedom to the future of the Middle East rings tragically hollow today for religious minorities.

    What the rest of Washington refuses to acknowledge.


  15. Speranza
    15 | December 10, 2012 9:04 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    http://www.ricksantorum.com/oped/resurrecting-religious-freedom
    yea, he’s a monster alright

    He’s politically tone deaf -- his comment on JFK’s 1960′s speech about separation of church and state “making me want to puke” showed just that.


  16. Mars
  17. Speranza
    17 | December 10, 2012 9:07 pm

    From the morning thread

    It is still hard to project which of the other major candidates could have succeeded. If far-out views on rape and abortion helped sink two Republican Senate candidates, for example, imagine what this would have done to Rick Santorum.


  18. waldensianspirit
    18 | December 10, 2012 9:08 pm

    @ Speranza:
    Puke away. But your man Romney failed to increase even the mormon vote; actually lost them in contrast to Bush and McCain. They knew things


  19. waldensianspirit
    19 | December 10, 2012 9:16 pm

    Bloomberg’s City And he’s decreeing against soda volume and salt


  20. waldensianspirit
    20 | December 10, 2012 9:20 pm

    Meanwhile [after your hissy fits about Santorum]:
    Report: U.S. And Britain In Talks To Provide Military Training, Air Cover To Syrian Rebels…


  21. Speranza
    21 | December 10, 2012 9:24 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Puke away. But your man Romney failed to increase even the mormon vote; actually lost them in contrast to Bush and McCain. They knew things

    The Republican Party dragged down what you refer to as “my man” Romney. Romney got more votes then McCain did (McCain lost by 7%, Romney by 2.8%) and by the way the Mormon vote is not monolithic (Harry Reid is a Mormon in case you do not know that) any more then the Catholic vote is. “Your man Romney”, so what ‘s your point -- Rick Santorum would have been a better candidate, your “man” Santorum lost by what was it 18% when he ran in 2006?


  22. Speranza
    22 | December 10, 2012 9:24 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Meanwhile [after your hissy fits about Santorum]:
    Report: U.S. And Britain In Talks To Provide Military Training, Air Cover To Syrian Rebels…

    What those that have to do with my “hissy fit” (nice segue) about Santorum?


  23. lobo91
    23 | December 10, 2012 9:26 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Meanwhile [after your hissy fits about Santorum]:
    Report: U.S. And Britain In Talks To Provide Military Training, Air Cover To Syrian Rebels…

    Now there’s a brilliant plan…


  24. 24 | December 10, 2012 9:30 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Santorum would have lost in a 45 sate blowout.


  25. waldensianspirit
    25 | December 10, 2012 9:31 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    What those that have to do with my “hissy fit” (nice segue) about Santorum?

    It has to do with how out of touch your opinions are while you fight some noexistent secular right war against anyone with an iota of spirituality.

    Your idea of a secular right take over of the country joined by the hiphop crowd is one of the most absurd ideas I’ve ever heard


  26. waldensianspirit
    26 | December 10, 2012 9:31 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ waldensianspirit:
    Santorum would have lost in a 45 sate blowout.

    Who cares


  27. waldensianspirit
    27 | December 10, 2012 9:32 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ waldensianspirit:
    Santorum would have lost in a 45 sate blowout.

    Can’t you find some new relevant material?


  28. lobo91
    28 | December 10, 2012 9:34 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    @ waldensianspirit:
    Santorum would have lost in a 45 sate blowout.

    Can’t you find some new relevant material?

    Apparently, we’re going to spend the next 4 years arguing over which irrelevant former candidate is responsible for Obama being reelected.

    //How thrilling…


  29. waldensianspirit
    29 | December 10, 2012 9:35 pm

    Charlie Crist probably would win by 45 states against the GOP. I guess winning without any principles is greatness because everyone loves a winner


  30. Speranza
    30 | December 10, 2012 9:37 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    It has to do with how out of touch your opinions are while you fight some noexistent secular right war against anyone with an iota of spirituality.

    Your idea of a secular right take over of the country joined by the hiphop crowd is one of the most absurd ideas I’ve ever heard

    You’re right -- Santorum should have been our candidate and Michele Bachmann our V.P. -- that would have worked out beautifully. Maybe we could have substituted Alan Keyes.

    The Eisenhower administration has been gone for 53 years and we better wake up to the fact that we are well into the 21st century.


  31. lobo91
    31 | December 10, 2012 9:37 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Charlie Crist probably would win by 45 states against the GOP. I guess winning without any principles is greatness because everyone loves a winner

    At this point, I think whoever promises the most free stuff will win.


  32. waldensianspirit
    32 | December 10, 2012 9:39 pm

    Obama spent four years and with ‘counterfeited’ 6 trillion extra dollars bought votes; and folks are surprised he won in a majority immoral country???


  33. waldensianspirit
    33 | December 10, 2012 9:40 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    At this point, I think whoever promises the most free stuff will win.

    And so it will be until the fail of the republic.


  34. waldensianspirit
    34 | December 10, 2012 9:49 pm

    Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Bachmann Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Keyes Santorum Santorum Santorum Bachmann Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Bachmann Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Keyes Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Bachmann Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Keyes Santorum Santorum Santorum Bachmann Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Bachmann Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Keyes Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum Santorum


  35. waldensianspirit
    35 | December 10, 2012 9:52 pm

    Cold front may delay launch of mysterious X-37B mini-shuttle

    We still have a shuttle and I kinda like this one even though it’d be nice to have both


  36. lobo91
    36 | December 10, 2012 9:53 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    At this point, I think whoever promises the most free stuff will win.

    And so it will be until the fail of the republic.

    Which will come sooner than people think.


  37. brookly red
    37 | December 10, 2012 10:01 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Which will come sooner than people think.

    it done came… this is not America.


  38. waldensianspirit
    38 | December 10, 2012 10:05 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    Which will come sooner than people think.

    it done came… this is not America.

    The world is completely striated; borders are meaningless


  39. 39 | December 10, 2012 10:17 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Hey we have tried it your way for 20 years with stupid culture wars that have turned off many parts of the country. The hypocritical stances of family values which is none of any politician’s business. The truth is most voters view our side as a bunch of angry hostile Theocratic loons. Your approach has failed.

    As for your boy Santorum, he is nothing more than a self righteous Bible thumping Progressive He fools people like you with red meat rhetoric about abortion to implement a Leftist economic agenda.

    Wake up, you are being played by Progressives who hide behind religion. But what do you care, as long as you hear some politician ranting and raving about abortion, family values or gays, it makes you feel better. It’s all about feelings for those allegedly on the Right like you. In reality, you have adopted the Marxist concept of Utopia. Government does not lead to Utopia.

    Wake up!


  40. waldensianspirit
    40 | December 10, 2012 10:19 pm

    @ Rodan:
    Have fun building your secular right party with hiphop alliance; lot’s of luck


  41. waldensianspirit
    41 | December 10, 2012 10:20 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Wake up!

    See @ waldensianspirit:


  42. waldensianspirit
    42 | December 10, 2012 10:21 pm

    A secular right ‘competitor’ to the Obama machine is a hoot.

    Snowballs chance in hell


  43. waldensianspirit
    43 | December 10, 2012 10:24 pm

    Ok Bill Whittle was cute with all that (Oh and he was pleasant to Bachmann) but the reality is; not a snowball’s chance in hell.

    [Whittle should be ostracised for being a persuasive gentlemen]


  44. brookly red
    44 | December 10, 2012 10:28 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    Which will come sooner than people think.
    it done came… this is not America.

    The world is completely striated; borders are meaningless

    really? try getting in Mexico from the south… try getting out of North Korea. There are plenty of real borders, just not here.


  45. waldensianspirit
    45 | December 10, 2012 10:28 pm

    Anybody who has the morality to not want and take freebies confiscated from productive citizens can be members of my ideal majority Party; what else they say or do effects me like water on a ducks back


  46. eaglesoars
    46 | December 10, 2012 10:30 pm

    Another aspect of Jewish/American history some people might not know is Hyam Solomon. He was a Jew who came here from Poland and helped finance the Revolution.

    In August 1781, the Continental Army had trapped Lieutenant General Charles Cornwallis in the little Virginia coastal town of Yorktown. George Washington and the main army and Count de Rochambeau with his French army decided to march from the Hudson Highlands to Yorktown and deliver the final blow. But Washington’s war chest was completely empty, as was that of Congress. Washington determined that he needed at least $20,000 to finance the campaign. When Morris told him there were no funds and no credit available, Washington gave him a simple but eloquent order: “Send for Haym Solomon”. Solomon raised $20,000, through the sale of bills of exchange, and Washington conducted the Yorktown campaign, which proved to be the final battle of the Revolution.[4]

    Solomon negotiated the sale of a majority of the war aid from France and Holland, selling bills of exchange to American merchants. Solomon also personally supported various members of the Continental Congress during their stay in Philadelphia, including James Madison and James Wilson. Acting as the patriot he was, he requested below market interest rates, and he never asked for repayment.[8]


  47. 47 | December 10, 2012 10:35 pm

    Developed civilizations become more socially liberal over time, sometimes slowly and sometimes rapidly. It’s the natural order. When civilizations reverse course and become more socially conservative, it simply doesn’t end well.


  48. 48 | December 10, 2012 10:52 pm

    Politicians fare poorly in conducting the affairs of men, therefore they should most certainly refrain from dabbling in the affairs of God.


  49. Dolphin
    49 | December 10, 2012 10:55 pm

    @ eaglesoars:
    Thanks for that! I love learning bits of history that are not commonly known. Very interesting.


  50. eaglesoars
    50 | December 10, 2012 10:59 pm

    @ Dolphin:

    most welcome!


  51. Speranza
    51 | December 10, 2012 11:01 pm

    @ eaglesoars:
    Judah P. Benjamin, Senator from Louisiana, then Confederate Secretary of War then Secretary of Sate. Later went to England and became a famous barrister.


  52. Speranza
    52 | December 10, 2012 11:02 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Politicians fare poorly in conducting the affairs of men, therefore they should most certainly refrain from dabbling in the affairs of God.

    I agree. When they start dabbling in religion or God they become tyrants see Robespierre and his “Festival of the Supreme Being”.


  53. huckfunn
    53 | December 10, 2012 11:03 pm

    The Dreyfus Affair was a French scandal which revealed anti-Semitism at the highest ranks of the French Army and the French Catholic Church in the 1890′s. Interesting story. There have been numerous books and at least one movie about the subject. It would be an interesting topic for a thread.


  54. Speranza
    54 | December 10, 2012 11:05 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    The Dreyfus Affair was a French scandal which revealed anti-Semitism at the highest ranks of the French Army and the French Catholic Church in the 1890′s. Interesting story. There have been numerous books and at least one movie about the subject. It would be an interesting topic for a thread.

    There have been a few movies about the Dreyfus Affair. One was with Jose Ferrer called “I, Accuse” another was “The Life of Emile Zola” starring the great Paul Muni.


  55. huckfunn
    55 | December 10, 2012 11:09 pm

    @ Speranza:
    I’ve seen at least 1 of the movies. Can’t remember which one. At any rate, an interesting and tragic story. I’ve always been fascinated with the story.


  56. huckfunn
    56 | December 10, 2012 11:11 pm

    The OOT is up.


  57. Dolphin
    57 | December 10, 2012 11:13 pm

    @ huckfunn:
    Saved that one to read tomorrow. Watching the game and hubby is none to happy with me right now. Plus it is way past my bed time for a week night. Glad I took tomorrow as a personal day, my clock just doesn’t know that!

    ;)


  58. Speranza
    58 | December 10, 2012 11:29 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I’ve seen at least 1 of the movies. Can’t remember which one. At any rate, an interesting and tragic story. I’ve always been fascinated with the story.

    It was not one of the Third Republic’s shining moments.


  59. Calo
    59 | December 10, 2012 11:33 pm

    @ Dolphin:
    Heh, sad game indeed for the Texans.

    Now, where did the OOT go?
    My comment disamapeared before I could post it.


  60. lobo91
    60 | December 10, 2012 11:38 pm

    @ Calo:

    Now, where did the OOT go?
    My comment disamapeared before I could post it.

    Looks like someone eated it…


  61. Dolphin
    61 | December 10, 2012 11:41 pm

    @ Calo:
    It was a satire piece. Funny as heck, but satire.

    I am a NE loyalist. Have been for many, many years. Don’t talk sh!t or anything, but the Pats are my team. I am surprised that I am not sleeping in my truck -- lol.

    Ultimately, I looked at this game as a win-win no matter how it turned out.

    How is Lily? Saw you went over this past weekend.

    Can I give you a call tomorrow?


  62. Dolphin
    62 | December 10, 2012 11:44 pm

    Here is the link..

    Again, really wish it were true.

    http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/peta-crashes-biker-gathering-not-to-be-missed/27275/


  63. darkwords
    63 | December 10, 2012 11:45 pm

    The secular right is jobs and trade and a strong defense. It’s not hip hop etc. Faith based voters need to be able to tend to themselves first and then realize what the practical foundation of that faith is. God wants attention to detail more than a lot of breaking of glass. There are times when it is farsighted to vote for the second best candidate.


  64. Calo
    64 | December 10, 2012 11:50 pm

    Dolphin wrote:

    @ Calo:
    It was a satire piece. Funny as heck, but satire.

    I am a NE loyalist. Have been for many, many years. Don’t talk sh!t or anything, but the Pats are my team. I am surprised that I am not sleeping in my truck — lol.

    Ultimately, I looked at this game as a win-win no matter how it turned out.

    How is Lily? Saw you went over this past weekend.

    Can I give you a call tomorrow?

    Sorry, I was still looking for myself, but I’m back.

    Yes, please call tomorrow (not at the crack of dawn, please) and maybe we can set up a time after Christmas to do some footwork for the NRA Convention.


  65. eaglesoars
    65 | December 10, 2012 11:51 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    The Dreyfus Affair was a French scandal which revealed anti-Semitism at the highest ranks of the French Army and the French Catholic Church in the 1890′s.

    I have a question. In terms of French culture of the time, military and civilian, it is my impression that the hierarchy of the Catholic church was the arbiter of all that was holy and good. Correct?

    One thing I have never understood and I hope someone here can tell me -- why was Dreyfus a target? Anti-semitism is not a detailed enough answer, if you don’t mind. Or, if you can recommend any books(s) I can download…………


  66. Dolphin
    66 | December 10, 2012 11:53 pm

    @ Calo:
    Will do.

    Night all.


  67. darkwords
    67 | December 10, 2012 11:58 pm

    How to Alinsky the left.


  68. Da_Beerfreak
    68 | December 10, 2012 11:59 pm

    @ eaglesoars:
    Dreyfus affair
    From Wikipedia.

    A good enough place to start. But not the final word.


  69. darkwords
    69 | December 11, 2012 12:00 am

    Liberals have a mentality that says, “Everything we do is harmless, but everything conservatives do is potentially dangerous.” Yet, we’re usually too well behaved to copy their tactics. Mimic those tactics once or twice and the Libs will freak out so hard that they’ll start declaring it to be off limits for everyone, including their own activists.


  70. darkwords
    70 | December 11, 2012 12:02 am

    Why not point out the truth: that most white liberals are racists who think black Americas are too stupid and incompetent to compete with white Americans, which is why they push Affirmative Action and racial set asides? Why not note that liberals want poor Americans to stay poor and dependent, because as long as they do, they’ll keep voting for the Democrat Party? There’s a reason Barack Obama bows to foreign leaders, is constantly apologizing for America, attended an anti-white, anti-American church for 20 years,


  71. darkwords
    71 | December 11, 2012 12:08 am

    Guns are bad. No one should ever use them. Especially conservatives who are evil. We need guns though to fight off the conservatives. Once we win no one will need a gun anymore. So conservatives… Don’t use a gun. Not if you want a clear conscience. Don’t…. We are the only ones smart enough to use them wisely.


  72. eaglesoars
    72 | December 11, 2012 12:12 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Dreyfus affair
    From Wikipedia.

    A good enough place to start. But not the final word.

    Thanks. Most of it I knew but not the bit about his granddaughter. The clue seems to be the artillery info passed and that Dreyfus was framed for it. Has anyone ever figured out who the actual culprit was?


  73. eaglesoars
    73 | December 11, 2012 12:22 am

    darkwords wrote:

    So conservatives… Don’t use a gun. Not if you want a clear conscience. Don’t…. We are the only ones smart enough to use them wisely.

    Have you ever witnessed a true liberal in the presence of a loaded weapon carried by an ordinary civilian?

    Hilarity ensues. Trust me.

    About 5 years ago we had an infestation of coyotes. I won’t bore you with those details but Molly the Beagle and I had been threatened by a small pack (4) of coyotes on one of our walks. So for about a year, until animal control was able to animal control, when I walked Molly, I took my lady-like S&W 38 revolver w/us. In the summer, there’s no way to conceal. So, it wasn’t. Wish I’d had someone w/ a video cam following us.


  74. lobo91
    74 | December 11, 2012 1:25 am

    I’m almost caught up with Vince Flynn’s books. I’m reading Extreme Measures now, and it has one of my favorite speeches in it:

    “My point is, numbnuts, that while you are diddling around with your dick, Rome is burning. That’s the problem with this whole country. Fucking vast prosperity. No one has any real problems anymore. Ninety percent of the damn politicians in this town either think there’s no war on terror, or if we’d just be nice to these zealots they’ll leave us alone. Well, that ain’t going to fucking happen. The Huns are circling, and we’re sitting around arguing about gay rights and prayer and guns and global warming and all kinds of bullshit. These idiots will eventually wake up to the threat, but by then it might be too late.”
    --Stan Hurley

    Amen


  75. Calo
    75 | December 11, 2012 1:31 am

    @ lobo91:

    Good Lord! Best lines I have read all day.

    Thanks Rudolph, er, Leia.


  76. lobo91
    76 | December 11, 2012 1:36 am

    @ Calo:

    That’s why I like Vince Flynn’s novels. He gets it.

    So does Brad Thor. We won’t see the villains transformed into Russian neo-Nazis if they ever make any of their books into movies.


  77. Calo
    77 | December 11, 2012 2:39 am

    @ lobo91:
    Some nights I have to cry at how culturally deficit I am.

    I have never read any Brad Thor novels.

    Bah, I don’t even understand the Star Trek references some nights.

    Please take pity in me.


  78. 78 | December 11, 2012 5:27 am

    Good morning everyone. Things have been busy and hectic. Show is done and pictures down, and I have a submission ready to go for another show. If I make the cut. Will find out in a couple of weeks. IN the mean time, Dim Sum walk was on the agenda.


  79. eaglesoars
    79 | December 11, 2012 7:53 am

    @ PaladinPhil:

    Hi Phil

    I don’t know how to tell you which pic I’m referring to -- it’s the large one where your camera seems to be pointing up -- at the bottom the stone is blue, etc.

    Anyway, nice ‘shading’ -- hard to do, I know. Nice work


  80. 80 | December 11, 2012 7:57 am

    @ waldensianspirit:

    As I have been saying for some time, if you want to tell the most reliable conservative votes out there to piss off, feel free, but don’t expect to be winning any elections after that. The Religious/Social conservatives are the backbone of the Republican Party (to the extent that it has a backbone). Telling them to go to hell is about as productive as simple ceeding all future elections to the Democrats. The results will be about the same.


  81. 82 | December 11, 2012 8:10 am

    @ eaglesoars:
    Thanks. I loved the smog accumulation along with the wetness of it. Old stone buildings are great for textures and looks.


  82. 83 | December 11, 2012 8:11 am

    @ eaglesoars:
    Oh, and just hover the mouse over the picture and a title should pop up.


  83. 84 | December 11, 2012 8:15 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    Since nobody makes “plastic guns” except for toy guns, I’d say this asshole just doesn’t know what he is talking about. Sure, there are plastic framed guns, like the Glock, but they still have a lot of steel in them. A solid plastic gun that can fire a projectile and kill someone is a work of science fiction. Next they will want to ban light-sabers. :roll:


  84. Tanker
    85 | December 11, 2012 8:22 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ waldensianspirit:
    As I have been saying for some time, if you want to tell the most reliable conservative votes out there to piss off, feel free, but don’t expect to be winning any elections after that. The Religious/Social conservatives are the backbone of the Republican Party (to the extent that it has a backbone). Telling them to go to hell is about as productive as simple ceeding all future elections to the Democrats. The results will be about the same.

    One thing about this whole issue. For me, I will never again vote against my principles or for someone without morals (I get to decide what they are for me). I can live with a secular party, but we all know that for it to be truly secular they have to stay out of all things dealing with my religion. No party or Government of either side can do that, it’s not in their nature.

    The division is great on this. There’s not agreement even here! Fractures will and have torn the conservative side apart.

    Tell me to STFU and STFD all you want, but it only strengthens my resolve, and doesn’t endure me to your way of thinking!


  85. eaglesoars
    86 | December 11, 2012 8:24 am

    PaladinPhil wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Oh, and just hover the mouse over the picture and a title should pop up.

    Ooooh. slow learner here.

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Next they will want to ban light-sabers

    In THAT case I’m screwed.

    :twisted:


  86. eaglesoars
    87 | December 11, 2012 8:42 am

    gotta go -- real life summons me (remember when we all couldn’t WAIT to grow up?)


  87. lobo91
    88 | December 11, 2012 10:31 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    It’s good to see that Congress has time to worry about banning non-existent items. I guess that means they solved that whole “fiscal cliff” deal, right?

    //


  88. buzzsawmonkey
    89 | December 11, 2012 1:07 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Has anyone ever figured out who the actual culprit was?

    Esterhazy was known as the culprit at the time.


  89. Speranza
    90 | December 11, 2012 10:20 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:
    Has anyone ever figured out who the actual culprit was?

    Esterhazy was known as the culprit at the time.

    He committed suicide.


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