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With the nominations of John Kerry and Chuck Hagel there should be no illusions about America’s role in the world

by Speranza ( 205 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Democratic Party, Elections 2012, Israel, Politics at December 17th, 2012 - 3:00 pm

Miss Glick agrees with me that Susan Rice would  have been far less harmful then John Kerry as Secretary of State. Kerry is a skilled left-wing  politician while Rice pretty much is a follower. Kerry has his own agenda – an agenda that he has not wavered from since 1971. As for Chuck Hagel, the good thing about his appointment is that there should be no  illusions about where America is going under Barack Obama as regards defense/national security matters.

by Caroline Glick

Many in the American Jewish community are aghast to discover that President Obama is planning to appoint former Senator Chuck Hagel to serve as Defense Secretary. If you want the skinny on how Hagel has come to be known as one of the few ferociously anti-Israel senators in the past generation, Carl from Jerusalem at Israel Matzav provides it.
Meantime, all I can say is I don’t understand how anyone can possibly be surprised. Shortly after word came out that Hagel is the frontrunner for the nomination, I read a quaint little blog post written by a conservative leaning commentator voicing her belief that Obama wouldn’t want to risk his relations with Israel’s supporters by appointing Hagel. But as Powerline pointed out today, this is the entire point of the nomination. Obama isn’t stupid. He picks fights he thinks he can win. He hasn’t always been right about those fights. He picked fights with Netanyahu thinking he could win, and he lost some of those.
But he is right to think he can win the Hagel fight. The Republican Senators aren’t going to get into a fight with Obama about his DOD appointee, especially given that it’s one of their fellow senators, even though many of them hate him. The Democrats are certainly not going to oppose him.
[.......]
Some commentators said that Susan Rice would be bad because she was anti-Israel and they hoped that Obama would appoint someone pro-Israel. But John Kerry is no friend of Israel. And as far as I was concerned, we would have been better off with Rice on the job.
Unlike Kerry, Rice is politically inept. She walked into Sen. John McCain’s office with the intention of convincing Sens. McCain, Lindsey Graham and Oympia Snowe that she was competent to serve as Secretary of State despite the fact that she deliberately misled the public on what happened at the Sept. 11 jihadist attack on the US consulate in Benghazi.
But she failed. In commenting on the meeting, all three senators said they were more concerned after speaking with Rice than they were before they did. That is, they said she was a political incompetent. Can there be any doubt that Sen. Kerry will be able to play the politics of Capitol Hill far more effectively than Rice?
And what reason does anyone have to believe that Assad’s great defender will be any more supportive of Israel than Rice would have been? But with him in the driver’s seat now, instead of having a political incompetent whom no one can stand serving as the spokesman for Obama’s anti-Israel foreign policy, in Kerry we will have a competent, reasonably popular politician on the job.
It’s time for people to realize the game has changed. Obama won.
Obama won with 70 percent of the Jewish vote despite the fact that his record in his first term was more hostile to Israel than any president since Jimmy Carter.  [.......]
So far, he has made clear that he feels no constraints whatsoever. Take the Palestinians at the UN for example. Obama enabled the Palestinians to get their non-member state status at the UN by failing to threaten to cut off US funding to the UN in retaliation for such a vote.
Both Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush issued such threats during their tenures in office and so prevented the motion from coming to a vote. Given that the Palestinians have had an automatic majority in the General Assembly since at least 1975, the only reason their status was only upgraded in 2012 is because until then, either the PLO didn’t feel like raising the issue or the US threatened to cut off its financial support to the UN if such a motion passed.  This year PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas said he wanted to have a vote and Obama responded by not issuing a threat to cut off UN funding. So the Palestinians got their vote and, as expected, it passed overwhelmingly.
[.......]
And Obama made that move and no one balked. Indeed some New York Jews applauded it.
Let there be no doubt, Obama will get Hagel in at Defense. And Hagel will place Israel in his crosshairs.
The only way to foil Obama’s ill intentions towards Israel even slightly is to be better at politics than he is. And he’s awfully good.
Moreover, one of his strongest advantages is that Israel’s supporters seem to have never gotten the memo. So here it is: Obama wants to fundamentally transform the US relationship with Israel.
He isn’t playing by the old rules. He doesn’t care about the so-called Israel lobby or the Jewish vote. As he sees it, to paraphrase Jim Baker, “F#&k the Jews, they voted for us anyway.”
As strange as it may sound, I am slightly relieved by Hagel’s appointment, and by my trust that Kerry will be a loyal mouthpiece of Obama’s hostility. The more “in our faces” they are with their hostility, the smaller our ability to deny their hostility or pretend that we can continue to operate as if nothing has changed. As we face four more years of Obama – and four years of Obama unplugged — the most urgent order of business for Israelis is to stop deluding ourselves in thinking that under Obama the US can be trusted.
So welcome aboard Secretary Hagel. Bring it on.
Read the rest – Chuck Hagel for Defense Secreatary, bring it on!

 

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205 Responses to “With the nominations of John Kerry and Chuck Hagel there should be no illusions about America’s role in the world”
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  1. AZfederalist
    1 | December 17, 2012 3:34 pm

    It appears that the only way 51% of our citizens are going to learn anything is to be slapped upside the head with the knowledge. Sucks for the rest of us because it won’t just be watching stupid people learn things, we are going to suffer as well.

    The fact that Jews voted for this regime will be just deserts when he leaves Israel out to dry.


  2. taxfreekiller
    2 | December 17, 2012 3:49 pm

    Best informed liar user of fraud, most well liked red commie unamerican Senator ever, honored Democrat who sucks up to the White House Thug in Chief, and a world class traitor of known acts of treason.

    May be he is the best of the lot.


  3. coldwarrior
    3 | December 17, 2012 3:54 pm

    Obama won with 70 percent of the Jewish vote despite the fact that his record in his first term was more hostile to Israel than any president since Jimmy Carter.

    self inflicted wound at this point, kinda like the smoker who keeps going with the ciggybuttz until he dies form ancer, COPD, and heart disease.


  4. 4 | December 17, 2012 3:56 pm

    My apologies to speranza for going OT so soon, but I thought I should float this out there for those interested. Looking through the latest issue of American Rifleman and what do I find but an ad for somebody making exactly what I have been looking for for a year. The perfect modern solution to warm weather carry for those who can’t or don’t want to dress to fit the gun.

    http://www.sneakypeteholsters.com/

    Exactly what I have been thinking of… I shall be ordering one of these…


  5. Speranza
    5 | December 17, 2012 3:57 pm

    AZfederalist wrote:

    It appears that the only way 51% of our citizens are going to learn anything is to be slapped upside the head with the knowledge.

    Even then they won;t learn.


  6. coldwarrior
    6 | December 17, 2012 3:57 pm

    and at this point, baker III’s comment about the overwhelmingly liberal ‘jewish’ voters in the north east is valid, and now it is doubly so

    He doesn’t care about the so-called Israel lobby or the Jewish vote. As he sees it, to paraphrase Jim Baker, “F#&k the Jews, they voted for us anyway.”


  7. coldwarrior
    7 | December 17, 2012 3:59 pm

    @ Mike C.:

    hmmm….a makarov would look really nice in that…

    just sayin, cause i dont own any guns.


  8. Mars
    8 | December 17, 2012 4:00 pm

    http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/12/17/exposed-eric-holders-days-as-a-radical-militant/

    Every root on the tree is completely rotten.


  9. Speranza
    9 | December 17, 2012 4:07 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    and at this point, baker III’s comment about the overwhelmingly liberal ‘jewish’ voters in the north east is valid, and now it is doubly so

    He doesn’t care about the so-called Israel lobby or the Jewish vote. As he sees it, to paraphrase Jim Baker, “F#&k the Jews, they voted for us anyway.”

    James Baker a major player of the Bush Mafia clique, is still influential in the Republican Party.


  10. 10 | December 17, 2012 4:07 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    An unfortunate boating accident, I’m sure. Salt or fresh water?


  11. coldwarrior
    11 | December 17, 2012 4:08 pm

    brilliant bait and switch btw. obama floated rice and gives us kerry and hegel.

    well played, its almost as beautiful to watch as james carville making the gop chase its tail.


  12. coldwarrior
    12 | December 17, 2012 4:11 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    An unfortunate boating accident, I’m sure. Salt or fresh water?

    all lost during the great blizzard of 93, sadly.


  13. coldwarrior
    13 | December 17, 2012 4:12 pm

    @ Speranza:

    yep. unfortunately.


  14. 14 | December 17, 2012 4:14 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Those snow drifts still haven’t melted?

    Be perfect for an LC9 or LCP, if only you still had one. Nobody seeing that on your belt would give it a second glance or thought these days…


  15. Speranza
    15 | December 17, 2012 4:15 pm

    Is Glick being too harsh in contending that Obama doesn’t like Israel and wants to hurt it? I don’t think so. As I pointed out recently, this is the man who spiritually followed the rabidly anti-Israel Rev. Wright; who gave a tribute to former PLO operative Rashid Khalidi so explosive that it has never seen the light of day; who has never visited Israel during his time in office, despite having been as close as thirty minutes away in Egypt, and managing to go to Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Iraq; who told Jewish leaders in July 2009 that he was deliberately adopting a policy of putting daylight between America and Israel; and who snubbed Benjamin Netanyahu in Washington DC and complained to Nicolas Sarkozy about having to deal with the Israeli prime minister.


  16. coldwarrior
    16 | December 17, 2012 4:18 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Those snow drifts still haven’t melted?
    Be perfect for an LC9 or LCP, if only you still had one. Nobody seeing that on your belt would give it a second glance or thought these days…

    there were avalanches and then an unfortunate freak lahar occurred.

    it was quite a weekend.


  17. coldwarrior
    17 | December 17, 2012 4:21 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    Nobody seeing that on your belt would give it a second glance or thought these days…

    i blocked off most of the screen and asked mrs coldwarrior what she thought was inside…

    big screen smart phone she said…if she carried, she would have had her vera bradley purses modified to carry a makarov.


  18. coldwarrior
    18 | December 17, 2012 4:22 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Is Glick being too harsh

    nope, not his time fer sure.


  19. RIX
    19 | December 17, 2012 4:27 pm

    Hagel is a nasty piece of work & does oppose Israel.
    John Kerry however is another dimension.
    He disrespected and lied about his fellow veterans
    and those still in Viet Nam with his committee testimony.
    He then aided & abetted the enemy during the Paris
    Peace negotiations.
    If a duck is still a duck, Kerry is a traitor.


  20. Speranza
    20 | December 17, 2012 4:29 pm

    @ RIX:
    Kerry fits perfectly into the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts.


  21. buzzsawmonkey
    21 | December 17, 2012 4:36 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    brilliant bait and switch btw. obama floated rice and gives us kerry and hegel.

    well played, its almost as beautiful to watch as james carville making the gop chase its tail.

    Rice’s name was floated to keep the “Republicans hate blacks and women” meme going past the election, and to put the final nails into the coffin of any investigation of Benghazi. Plus, once a potential nominee (formally nominated or not) has been beaten back, the opponents are naturally reluctant to do it again. In short, having Rice appear to take one for the team allowed Obama to win twice; once, by continuing the Republicans-are-bigots routine, and once by her giving Obama a clear path towards confirmation of his real choice.

    Hagel was nominated to stick it to Israel and to the Republicans, by forcing the Republicans to appear to “reject bipartisanship” by opposing him.


  22. RIX
    22 | December 17, 2012 4:38 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    @ RIX:

    Kerry fits perfectly into the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts.

    He sure does.


  23. 23 | December 17, 2012 4:39 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Hagel is a nasty piece of work & does oppose Israel.
    John Kerry however is another dimension.
    He disrespected and lied about his fellow veterans
    and those still in Viet Nam with his committee testimony.
    He then aided & abetted the enemy during the Paris
    Peace negotiations.
    If a duck is still a duck, Kerry is a traitor.

    Kerry as SecDef is like Michael Moore heading up HHS.


  24. RIX
    24 | December 17, 2012 4:55 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    Kerry as SecDef is like Michael Moore heading up HHS.

    It’s a travesty.
    How are you doing Mac?


  25. 25 | December 17, 2012 4:59 pm

    RIX wrote:

    It’s a travesty.
    How are you doing Mac?

    I’m good, RIX. Still have some Christmas prep on the agenda, but life in my world is a helluva lot better than it is in the world at-large!


  26. 26 | December 17, 2012 5:00 pm

    @ RIX:

    So, How’s it treating you?


  27. Mars
  28. lobo91
    28 | December 17, 2012 5:03 pm

    This has been the busiest single day I’ve had since I started my business. So far, I’ve had 7 people sign up for classes today, and it’s only 3:00.


  29. Guggi
    29 | December 17, 2012 5:03 pm

    Key Democratic senators shift on gun control

    Manchin, Warner change stances on gun rights in wake of Newtown shootings


  30. Mars
    30 | December 17, 2012 5:04 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    Key Democratic senators shift on gun control
    Manchin, Warner change stances on gun rights in wake of Newtown shootings

    Mars wrote:

    http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=10104

    Read my link. Most of the scumbags are hypocrites. They are either armed or have hired armed protection.


  31. RIX
    31 | December 17, 2012 5:06 pm

    @ MacDuff:
    Glad to hear that you’re doing well.
    I am too.


  32. AZfederalist
    32 | December 17, 2012 5:09 pm

    @ Guggi:

    Proving once again that there is no such thing as a conservative Democrat.

    Once again learning the wrong lessons from a tragedy. This was a “gun-free” zone. There should have been no way for this to happen, right?

    So instead of taking the real lesson — that signs and pieces of paper don’t stop evil people, we try to take tools out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

    A nation of fools we have become.


  33. Guggi
    33 | December 17, 2012 5:10 pm

    @ Mars:

    thank you, Mars


  34. lobo91
    34 | December 17, 2012 5:15 pm

    @ AZfederalist:

    A nation of fools we have become.

    Yoda? :)


  35. coldwarrior
    35 | December 17, 2012 5:17 pm

    @ Guggi:

    manchin will get smoked in WVA for this. the only thing more unpopular than regulations against coal in WVA is gun laws…well those and laws against marrying your sister.

    :lol:


  36. lobo91
    36 | December 17, 2012 5:19 pm

    The governor of CT made a statement this morning that made it sound like he wants more gun laws, too.

    Given that the shooter didn’t actually own the guns that were used, the only law that could have prevented him from doing what he did is some sort of gun ban.

    I don’t want to sound like I’m blaming the victim, but the mother should have had those guns locked in a safe, particularly with someone in the house who had some type of psychological issues.


  37. Speranza
    37 | December 17, 2012 5:20 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Hagel was nominated to stick it to Israel and to the Republicans, by forcing the Republicans to appear to “reject bipartisanship” by opposing him.

    Hagel is owed no loyalty by Republicans. He has stabbed them repeatedly in the back.


  38. lobo91
    38 | December 17, 2012 5:26 pm

    I’m impressed. The Five is almost half over and Beckel hasn’t taken a cheap shot at the NRA or Republicans yet.


  39. heysoos
    39 | December 17, 2012 5:27 pm

    @ lobo91:
    I’d be okay with a special permit for hi cap mags


  40. 40 | December 17, 2012 5:32 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    The governor of CT made a statement this morning that made it sound like he wants more gun laws, too.

    Given that the shooter didn’t actually own the guns that were used, the only law that could have prevented him from doing what he did is some sort of gun ban.

    I don’t want to sound like I’m blaming the victim, but the mother should have had those guns locked in a safe, particularly with someone in the house who had some type of psychological issues.

    Gun control is about to sweep over the nation and the best we can hope for is mitigation. Newtown was a culture altering event and legislators at the local, state and federal level are in the full throes of the “Do Something Disease”.

    Twenty dead children have delivered Obama and the liberals an open field on gun control.


  41. buzzsawmonkey
    41 | December 17, 2012 5:32 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Hagel is owed no loyalty by Republicans. He has stabbed them repeatedly in the back.

    Means nothing. If the Republicans reject Hagel as nominee, as they doubtless should, the Democrats’ media arm—i.e., the media—and the Choom Gang Administration will start screaming about how “the Republicans reject bipartisanship.”

    Who’s going to shout them down? McCain in the Senate? Boehner in the House? The Republicans have proven themselves to be utterly incapable of dealing with coordinated opposition, and the Tea Party does not exist as an entity.


  42. lobo91
    42 | December 17, 2012 5:34 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    I’d be okay with a special permit for hi cap mags

    Pointless. There are hundreds of thousands of them in circulation.


  43. coldwarrior
    43 | December 17, 2012 5:36 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Tea Party does not exist as an entity.

    sure it does. this issue isnt a tax/spend thing.

    sorry.

    taxed
    enough
    already.


  44. lobo91
    44 | December 17, 2012 5:37 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    Gun control is about to sweep over the nation and the best we can hope for is mitigation. Newtown was a culture altering event and legislators at the local, state and federal level are in the full throes of the “Do Something Disease”.

    Which is how we end up with stupid unworkable laws.

    Laws should be based on fact, not emotion.


  45. 45 | December 17, 2012 5:40 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Precisely!


  46. lobo91
    46 | December 17, 2012 5:43 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    And the fact is that the one thing all these mass shootings have in common is that they were carried out by mentally disturbed young males.

    Looks like I spoke too soon. Beckel just called for making all “assault weapons” illegal, and took a swipe at the NRA.


  47. 47 | December 17, 2012 5:43 pm

    @ lobo91:

    We don’t just have laws based on emotion, we have entire government agencies based on emotion! The more emotion involved, the more “stupid” and “unworkable” the legislation (or agency). It’s like an inverse law of physics.


  48. lobo91
    48 | December 17, 2012 5:44 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    We don’t just have laws based on emotion, we have entire government agencies based on emotion! The more emotion involved, the more “stupid” and “unworkable” the legislation (or agency). It’s like an inverse law of physics.

    And then we pass new laws to fix the problems caused by the previous round.


  49. RIX
    49 | December 17, 2012 5:45 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Looks like I spoke too soon. Beckel just called for making all “assault weapons” illegal, and took a swipe at the NRA.

    He is impossible to underestimate.


  50. lobo91
    50 | December 17, 2012 5:46 pm

    @ RIX:

    He did make it almost 45 minutes, which is a record for him.


  51. unclassifiable
    51 | December 17, 2012 5:48 pm

    Why have bi-partisanship?

    Let’s obstruct. Let’s thwart their plans. Conservative representatives are as “duly elected” as the President right? And since they can obstruct and can wait for a real offer and can shut this government down then, if that is their only leverage then why not. With the 24x7 demonization by he media, conservatives can’t have much worse of a public image can they?


  52. RIX
    52 | December 17, 2012 5:49 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ RIX:

    He did make it almost 45 minutes, which is a record for him.

    I guess that’s progress of a sorts. The other guy made a good point,
    “Wait until the children are buried.”


  53. lobo91
    53 | December 17, 2012 5:50 pm

    Beckel said that he wanted someone to give him “one reason why anyone in America needs an assault weapon.”

    I’d like him to give me one reason why anyone in America needs a car that can go over 75 mph. And unlike guns, there’s nothing in the Constitution about cars.


  54. lobo91
    54 | December 17, 2012 5:51 pm

    @ unclassifiable:

    Sounds like a plan.


  55. buzzsawmonkey
    55 | December 17, 2012 5:51 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    The Tea Party exists? Really? Where are its offices? Who runs it? Who are its officers? Who determines which issues it is behind—or what its platform is?

    Who determines whether someone running for office who claims to “be Tea Party” actually is, or is merely a false-flag vote splitter?

    The Tea Party was a lovely spontaneous outpouring of emotion that affected the elections two years ago. It neglected—neglected? hell, it refused—to organize itself in a way that might permit it to consolidate any gains it made. The responsible people of the Tea Party, demonstrating against the policies of the former hippies that infest the Obama Administration, allowed themselves to be out-organized by the hippies. Nice little irony there.

    When you find the Tea Party as anything other than a nostalgic memory of 2010, let me know.


  56. lobo91
    56 | December 17, 2012 5:52 pm

    I see no reason that anyone in America should be allowed to own a swimming pool, either.


  57. heysoos
    57 | December 17, 2012 5:53 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    @ lobo91:
    I’d be okay with a special permit for hi cap mags
    Pointless. There are hundreds of thousands of them in circulation.

    it’s not about the practical, it’s political…
    we are talking about elected officials that cannot even define ‘assault weapon’


  58. 58 | December 17, 2012 5:56 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    I see no reason that anyone in America should be allowed to own a swimming pool, either.

    We need media control!


  59. 59 | December 17, 2012 5:56 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Looks like I spoke too soon. Beckel just called for making all “assault weapons” illegal, and took a swipe at the NRA.

    It’s a gruesome thought experiment, but I wonder how much damage an even partially motivated individual could do with a lethal handgun like a Colt .45 1911 and a bag of magazines in a setting similar to the one on Friday?

    You don’t need an “assault rifle” to amass a body count among defenseless and unsuspecting children.


  60. lobo91
    60 | December 17, 2012 5:57 pm

    @ heysoos:

    it’s not about the practical, it’s political…
    we are talking about elected officials that cannot even define ‘assault weapon’

    That’s because it’s a meaningless term.

    Politicians have no more business getting involved with these issues than they do with medical issues. All they do is cause more problems.


  61. lobo91
    61 | December 17, 2012 5:58 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    You don’t need an “assault rifle” to amass a body count among defenseless and unsuspecting children.

    Precisely.


  62. 62 | December 17, 2012 5:58 pm

    RIX wrote:

    I guess that’s progress of a sorts. The other guy made a good point,
    “Wait until the children are buried.”

    They were spouting this madness before the blood dried on Friday. It’s f**king ghoulish.


  63. Mars
    63 | December 17, 2012 5:59 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Beckel said that he wanted someone to give him “one reason why anyone in America needs an assault weapon.”
    I’d like him to give me one reason why anyone in America needs a car that can go over 75 mph. And unlike guns, there’s nothing in the Constitution about cars.

    Also, no lib can tell you what an assault weapon is. When asked they usually reply that its the scary ones with the black things on the barrels.

    (I can’t remember which, but one female senator wanted to ban barrel guards because they are “scary looking”.


  64. 64 | December 17, 2012 6:01 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    I’d be okay with a special permit for hi cap mags

    Uh, to be issued to whom, exactly? Based on what?

    Oh, and define “high capacity”, please. Be sure to give factual eveidence for the definition you pull out of your ass.


  65. heysoos
    65 | December 17, 2012 6:02 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    it’s not about the practical, it’s political…
    we are talking about elected officials that cannot even define ‘assault weapon’
    That’s because it’s a meaningless term.
    Politicians have no more business getting involved with these issues than they do with medical issues. All they do is cause more problems.

    it’s definition is meaningless to liberals…an assault rifle is full auto…period…it has nothing to do with muzzle velocity, caliber, or the size of the magazine…it’s hardly a meaningless term


  66. heysoos
    66 | December 17, 2012 6:05 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    @ lobo91:
    I’d be okay with a special permit for hi cap mags
    Uh, to be issued to whom, exactly? Based on what?
    Oh, and define “high capacity”, please. Be sure to give factual eveidence for the definition you pull out of your ass.

    back off asshole…no need to expose your mean streak…hi cap would be more than 20 rounds, issued to whomever feels they need them…I’m not trying to insult anybody, just a thought to keep the grabbers at bay…it’s not science, it’s my opinion


  67. coldwarrior
    67 | December 17, 2012 6:05 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    weird, my local non-existent party just defeated murtha’s hand picked replacement; HEAVILY favored to win. this area of the state is solid red for the first time ever. we helped shore up the fiscon control of the state legislature in PA as well.

    all politics is local my friend. just because you dont see shiny new offices in dc does not mean that we are ‘non existent’. these trappings are anathema to the movement. we do fiscon issues. taxed enough already. thats it. sorry to have disapointed you.

    we control the local politics, look at a map of america. it takes time to get all of this done.

    see me in 2014.


  68. lobo91
    68 | December 17, 2012 6:06 pm

    @ heysoos:

    it’s definition is meaningless to liberals…an assault rifle is full auto…period…it has nothing to do with muzzle velocity, caliber, or the size of the magazine…it’s hardly a meaningless term

    Nobody said that assault rifle is a meaningless term.

    Assault weapon is, though.


  69. 69 | December 17, 2012 6:06 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    Except these clowns have no idea what an “assault rifle” is. They think if it’s black and can shoot ten rounds it’s an assault rifle. They have visions of all NRA members with AK-47, Uzi’s and M-16′s in the closet. Which is garbage.


  70. coldwarrior
    70 | December 17, 2012 6:07 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    hell, it refused—to organize itself in a way that might permit it to consolidate any gains it made

    quite on purpose. there is no need to be organized at the top. that leads to corruption. its grass roots and real change is slow and local at first.

    what have you done for the cause?


  71. lobo91
    71 | December 17, 2012 6:08 pm

    @ heysoos:

    hi cap would be more than 20 rounds, issued to whomever feels they need them

    You’d be the only one using that definition.

    Every law I’ve seen banning so-called high capacity magazines sets the bar at 10.


  72. 72 | December 17, 2012 6:10 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    Mike C. wrote:
    heysoos wrote:
    @ lobo91:
    I’d be okay with a special permit for hi cap mags
    Uh, to be issued to whom, exactly? Based on what?
    Oh, and define “high capacity”, please. Be sure to give factual eveidence for the definition you pull out of your ass.
    back off asshole…no need to expose your mean streak…hi cap would be more than 20 rounds, issued to whomever feels they need them…I’m not trying to insult anybody, just a thought to keep the grabbers at bay…it’s not science, it’s my opinion

    And the evidence for the number 20? Why not 10? 15? 25? 30? Or 5, for that matter?

    Oh, and FOAD, “asshole.”


  73. RIX
    73 | December 17, 2012 6:11 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    They were spouting this madness before the blood dried on Friday. It’s f**king ghoulish.

    Ghoulish is exactly right. Nobody should exploit the deaths of these
    children


  74. unclassifiable
    74 | December 17, 2012 6:12 pm

    I seem to recall some folks killing 3000 or so Americans with martial arts, box cutters,and plastic knives.


  75. 75 | December 17, 2012 6:13 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    What hurt the Tea Party was Bachmann claiming to represent them. Then these loons like Angle and O’Donnell claimed they were tea party.


  76. lobo91
    76 | December 17, 2012 6:13 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    Except these clowns have no idea what an “assault rifle” is. They think if it’s black and can shoot ten rounds it’s an assault rifle. They have visions of all NRA members with AK-47, Uzi’s and M-16′s in the closet. Which is garbage.

    Those same people will say that this Mini 14 is fine.

    But this one is an ebil assault weapon.

    Don’t tell them that they’re actually identical rifles…


  77. Mars
    77 | December 17, 2012 6:14 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    it’s not about the practical, it’s political…
    we are talking about elected officials that cannot even define ‘assault weapon’
    That’s because it’s a meaningless term.
    Politicians have no more business getting involved with these issues than they do with medical issues. All they do is cause more problems.

    it’s definition is meaningless to liberals…an assault rifle is full auto…period…it has nothing to do with muzzle velocity, caliber, or the size of the magazine…it’s hardly a meaningless term

    Wrong, libs consider semi-auto to be assault weapons also.


  78. heysoos
    78 | December 17, 2012 6:15 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    hi cap would be more than 20 rounds, issued to whomever feels they need them
    You’d be the only one using that definition.
    Every law I’ve seen banning so-called high capacity magazines sets the bar at 10.

    you gotta start somewhere…these cats are coming for our ammo and magazine caps…it’s just a point to bargain and they are into visuals…black matt, pistol grips, drums and banana clips…so be it…if they illegalize 30rnd mags, then carry three 10 round mags…I don’t like any of it but we have to come back with something


  79. Mars
    79 | December 17, 2012 6:16 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    Mike C. wrote:
    heysoos wrote:
    @ lobo91:
    I’d be okay with a special permit for hi cap mags
    Uh, to be issued to whom, exactly? Based on what?
    Oh, and define “high capacity”, please. Be sure to give factual eveidence for the definition you pull out of your ass.

    back off asshole…no need to expose your mean streak…hi cap would be more than 20 rounds, issued to whomever feels they need them…I’m not trying to insult anybody, just a thought to keep the grabbers at bay…it’s not science, it’s my opinion

    Sorry again Heysoos, there is nothing that will keep the grabbers at bay. When they established the “assault weapons” ban (which had nothing to do with full auto) they immediately looked into banning various other rifles and pistols.

    Every inch you give them just pushes them forward more.


  80. RIX
    80 | December 17, 2012 6:16 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    What hurt the Tea Party was Bachmann claiming to represent them. Then these loons like Angle and O’Donnell claimed they were tea party.

    Exactly right. The Tea Party does great work, but Angle &
    O’Donnell were a disaster.


  81. lobo91
    81 | December 17, 2012 6:17 pm

    @ heysoos:

    I don’t like any of it but we have to come back with something

    No, we don’t.

    It’s called drawing a line in the sand.


  82. 82 | December 17, 2012 6:17 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Kerry fits perfectly into the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts.

    And now, Fauxcahontas will soon become Taxatwoshits’ senior Senator…..


  83. Mars
    83 | December 17, 2012 6:18 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    hi cap would be more than 20 rounds, issued to whomever feels they need them
    You’d be the only one using that definition.
    Every law I’ve seen banning so-called high capacity magazines sets the bar at 10.

    you gotta start somewhere…these cats are coming for our ammo and magazine caps…it’s just a point to bargain and they are into visuals…black matt, pistol grips, drums and banana clips…so be it…if they illegalize 30rnd mags, then carry three 10 round mags…I don’t like any of it but we have to come back with something

    No we don’t. The liberals fight is all about incrementalism. Every centimeter makes them take a foot.

    Please give me some examples where giving the libs anything slowed them down one iota.


  84. 84 | December 17, 2012 6:18 pm

    @ lobo91:

    The Flyboy and I refer to them as our “evil black guns.”
    Hell, my Mossberg 12-gauge looks like it could do some serious damage to you with just ONE shot. Oh wait…..


  85. heysoos
    85 | December 17, 2012 6:18 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    hi cap would be more than 20 rounds, issued to whomever feels they need them
    You’d be the only one using that definition.
    Every law I’ve seen banning so-called high capacity magazines sets the bar at 10.

    that’s not the point….what will you concede?
    it’s coming again


  86. lobo91
    86 | December 17, 2012 6:19 pm

    @ heysoos:

    that’s not the point….what will you concede?
    it’s coming again

    I don’t plan to concede a damn thing.

    If you want to roll over, feel free.


  87. lobo91
    87 | December 17, 2012 6:21 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    The Flyboy and I refer to them as our “evil black guns.”
    Hell, my Mossberg 12-gauge looks like it could do some serious damage to you with just ONE shot. Oh wait…..

    I’m sure they’ll want to ban my shotgun, too.

    I have a Mossberg 590 that holds 8 rounds.

    Oh, and it has a bayonet mount, too.


  88. RIX
    88 | December 17, 2012 6:21 pm

    Everybody have a great evening.


  89. coldwarrior
    89 | December 17, 2012 6:22 pm

    @ heysoos:

    i dont think that anything will have to be conceded this time.

    everyone was ready for the left’s onslaught this time and have reacted.

    gun control is a moot issue used to distracted the squirrels from the budget problems. it will never pass the congress so its just a side show, a shiny object.


  90. 90 | December 17, 2012 6:22 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    that’s not the point….what will you concede?
    it’s coming again
    I don’t plan to concede a damn thing.
    If you want to roll over, feel free.

    Exactly.


  91. unclassifiable
    91 | December 17, 2012 6:23 pm

    Well let’s not beat around the bush about assault rifles. We freedom loving conservatives want them because the liberals show no sign of controlling their totalitarian impulses including seizing property and violating our other rights.

    We have no illusion that a citizen does not stand a chance against the various government militias.

    But like the proverbial badger, we can sure make it damn unpleasant for the government grizzlies.

    Does that answer your question Mr. And Ms. Scumbag Liberal?


  92. heysoos
    92 | December 17, 2012 6:23 pm

    I understand how people feel and I’m in the same corner…I’m just putting an idea out there…I’m not comfortable with the notion that the SC will decide in our favor when the grab comes


  93. coldwarrior
    93 | December 17, 2012 6:23 pm

    what we need to do is ban insane people.


  94. lobo91
    94 | December 17, 2012 6:24 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    gun control is a moot issue used to distracted the squirrels from the budget problems. it will never pass the congress so its just a side show, a shiny object.

    Right


  95. Mars
    95 | December 17, 2012 6:24 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    hi cap would be more than 20 rounds, issued to whomever feels they need them
    You’d be the only one using that definition.
    Every law I’ve seen banning so-called high capacity magazines sets the bar at 10.

    that’s not the point….what will you concede?
    it’s coming again

    Concessions are pointless. The train will roll over you and leave your corpse in the tracks.

    In the 80′s throwing stars became a big deal in the schools around the country. Teddy, the bloated toad, Kennedy decided that something had to be done. So he wrote (had his staffers write) a law banning shurikens in this country. Unfortunately what the toad didn’t realize is that shurikens referred to all edged devices. Luckily someone with an ounce of research skill caught this when the dumbass presented it. Even after this was pointed out dumbass still didn’t see the problem. Of course he then was embarrassed and pushed out of politics forever./what he wasn’t, damn.

    Instead he was at the head of the charge on the “assault weapons” ban, something else he could not define.


  96. lobo91
    96 | December 17, 2012 6:25 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    what we need to do is ban insane people.

    Including ones in government.


  97. heysoos
    97 | December 17, 2012 6:25 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    i dont think that anything will have to be conceded this time.
    everyone was ready for the left’s onslaught this time and have reacted.
    gun control is a moot issue used to distracted the squirrels from the budget problems. it will never pass the congress so its just a side show, a shiny object.

    I hope you’re right…I don’t trust liberals and I certainly don’t trust the feds…we’ll see


  98. coldwarrior
    98 | December 17, 2012 6:26 pm

    @ heysoos:

    molon labe


  99. Mars
    99 | December 17, 2012 6:27 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    i dont think that anything will have to be conceded this time.
    everyone was ready for the left’s onslaught this time and have reacted.
    gun control is a moot issue used to distracted the squirrels from the budget problems. it will never pass the congress so its just a side show, a shiny object.

    It was all ready because Feinstein said in November she had it all ready to go and would introduce it before the first of the year. The timing just turned out perfectly for her and her cronies.


  100. lobo91
    100 | December 17, 2012 6:27 pm

    @ Mars:

    Concessions are pointless. The train will roll over you and leave your corpse in the tracks.

    And we’ve seen how this crowd “negotiates.”

    When you agree to what they asked for, they then demand twice as much.


  101. lobo91
    101 | December 17, 2012 6:28 pm

    @ Mars:

    It was all ready because Feinstein said in November she had it all ready to go and would introduce it before the first of the year. The timing just turned out perfectly for her and her cronies.

    She’s had it sitting on her desk since the Giffords shooting, just waiting for the right time.


  102. Mars
    102 | December 17, 2012 6:28 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Mars:
    Concessions are pointless. The train will roll over you and leave your corpse in the tracks.
    And we’ve seen how this crowd “negotiates.”
    When you agree to what they asked for, they then demand twice as much.

    Standard liberal tactics.

    Give the a tiny increment, they will demand more, then go to the compliant press pointing out that you’ve already given in once, so since you won’t again, you’re just “playing politics with peoples lives”.

    The script is already written and doesn’t even have to be deviated from.


  103. coldwarrior
    103 | December 17, 2012 6:29 pm

    @ Mars:

    it doesnt take a nostradorian to have some crap bill written up.

    and it will die in the senate and be plowed under in the house. keep your eye on the ball, the budget.

    this is a side show.


  104. heysoos
    104 | December 17, 2012 6:30 pm

    when I used the word concede, I was not referring to us, the citizens…I was speaking about our elected officials…I sense another scrap coming up with the grabbers…I’m not advocating anybody compromise their rights…and MikeC, I apologize for lashing out at you


  105. AZfederalist
    105 | December 17, 2012 6:30 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Gun control is about to sweep over the nation and the best we can hope for is mitigation.

    Not sure about that. We have also seen the fallout from other such incidents that then lead to even worse outcomes. You saw Lobo’s statement, he’s had more people sign up for his classes today. I would bet that gun sales are through the roof today.

    We do have the MSM gen’ing up things, but not sure how far that will go. They were doing the same thing after the Aurora shootings.

    What does need to happen is that anyone who is approached by someone talking about “rational gun control” should point out that these mass shootings happened in gun free zones.


  106. Speranza
    106 | December 17, 2012 6:31 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    gun control is a moot issue used to distracted the squirrels from the budget problems. it will never pass the congress so its just a side show, a shiny object.

    Better to talk about gun control insted of unemployment (from a Democratic point of view).


  107. Mars
    107 | December 17, 2012 6:31 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Mars:
    It was all ready because Feinstein said in November she had it all ready to go and would introduce it before the first of the year. The timing just turned out perfectly for her and her cronies.
    She’s had it sitting on her desk since the Giffords shooting, just waiting for the right time.

    Partially, but she made it clear that she was going to put it out before the first of the year no matter what. That was from a speech she gave in November.

    She has also said in the past she will not stop until all guns are banned.


  108. lobo91
    108 | December 17, 2012 6:32 pm

    @ AZfederalist:

    Not sure about that. We have also seen the fallout from other such incidents that then lead to even worse outcomes. You saw Lobo’s statement, he’s had more people sign up for his classes today. I would bet that gun sales are through the roof today.

    There were so many background check applications on Saturday that it crashed the system until 11:00 Sunday morning.


  109. 109 | December 17, 2012 6:32 pm

    @ RIX:

    They did damage.


  110. coldwarrior
    110 | December 17, 2012 6:33 pm

    @ AZfederalist:

    one of the local schools here is talking about arming a few teachers, kinda like the pilots are. sounds like a plan.

    but, in reality, its hard to stop a maniac.


  111. heysoos
    111 | December 17, 2012 6:34 pm

    Mars wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ Mars:
    It was all ready because Feinstein said in November she had it all ready to go and would introduce it before the first of the year. The timing just turned out perfectly for her and her cronies.
    She’s had it sitting on her desk since the Giffords shooting, just waiting for the right time.

    Partially, but she made it clear that she was going to put it out before the first of the year no matter what. That was from a speech she gave in November.
    She has also said in the past she will not stop until all guns are banned.

    except hers…she has a CC permit


  112. coldwarrior
    112 | December 17, 2012 6:34 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    gun control is a moot issue used to distracted the squirrels from the budget problems. it will never pass the congress so its just a side show, a shiny object.
    Better to talk about gun control insted of unemployment (from a Democratic point of view).

    bingo.

    and it works.


  113. 113 | December 17, 2012 6:35 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ heysoos:

    i dont think that anything will have to be conceded this time.

    everyone was ready for the left’s onslaught this time and have reacted.

    gun control is a moot issue used to distracted the squirrels from the budget problems. it will never pass the congress so its just a side show, a shiny object.

    Alas, CW, shiny objects reelected Obama and are still providing buoyancy in the approval polls. I’ve already read Obama’s speech on Newtown described as his “Gettysburg Address”. I’m absolutely convinced that the only thing we can do is to mitigate the gun control that’s coming down the pike, we cannot stop it. And the budget? Boehner’s bending over and spreading ‘em as far as he can and Obama’s not negotiating because he doesn’t have to; he knows he’s won the PR war.


  114. Mars
    114 | December 17, 2012 6:36 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ Mars:
    it doesnt take a nostradorian to have some crap bill written up.
    and it will die in the senate and be plowed under in the house. keep your eye on the ball, the budget.
    this is a side show.

    I hope you’re right, but I’m not so sure. We have radicals in charge of two parts of the government, a weak compliant spineless bunch in charge of a third part, a supreme court that has already shown it can’t be trusted, and a media willing to manipulate the minds of the electorate.

    If they were waiting for the perfect time, this is it. Especially when we have a president who has already said he will go against congress with his EO’s if he feels he should.


  115. coldwarrior
    115 | December 17, 2012 6:37 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    There were so many background check applications on Saturday that it crashed the system until 11:00 Sunday morning.

    NICE!!!
    i love it!


  116. 116 | December 17, 2012 6:38 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    what we need to do is ban insane people.
    Including ones in government.

    It is scary to think that one person who would be voting on a gun ban law believes that an island will tip over if too many people are congregated at one end.


  117. lobo91
    117 | December 17, 2012 6:38 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ AZfederalist:
    one of the local schools here is talking about arming a few teachers, kinda like the pilots are. sounds like a plan.
    but, in reality, its hard to stop a maniac.

    I’ve heard some interesting proposals to put retired cops, or ones on disability, into schools.

    The Albuquerque Public School system has its own police department. Of course, they’re unarmed when they go into schools. They make them lock their guns in their cars.


  118. coldwarrior
    118 | December 17, 2012 6:38 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    the gop has to be destroyed. we need to start over.


  119. Mars
    119 | December 17, 2012 6:38 pm

    @ heysoos:
    There will be exemptions for the political class and their bodyguards. My guess is that they will get themselves labeled as “law enforcement”.


  120. buzzsawmonkey
    120 | December 17, 2012 6:38 pm

    Mars wrote:

    She has also said in the past she will not stop until all guns are banned.

    Why has nobody suggested that she is unfit to serve as a Senator in that she is opposed to the Bill of Rights?


  121. coldwarrior
    121 | December 17, 2012 6:40 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    see, we already played the gun control game and the dems got slaughtered because of it. they are smart enough not to do it again. they will fake toward it as a distraction. the dems are smart. they get politics.


  122. lobo91
    122 | December 17, 2012 6:40 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Mars wrote:
    She has also said in the past she will not stop until all guns are banned.
    Why has nobody suggested that she is unfit to serve as a Senator in that she is opposed to the Bill of Rights?

    Probably because she’s from California.

    They’re not really all that big on the Bill of Rights (or the rest of the Constitution) there.


  123. Mars
    123 | December 17, 2012 6:41 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    @ AZfederalist:
    one of the local schools here is talking about arming a few teachers, kinda like the pilots are. sounds like a plan.
    but, in reality, its hard to stop a maniac.
    I’ve heard some interesting proposals to put retired cops, or ones on disability, into schools.
    The Albuquerque Public School system has its own police department. Of course, they’re unarmed when they go into schools. They make them lock their guns in their cars.

    The schools that my nephews go to have sheriffs dept in them. One deputy in each school all day.


  124. 124 | December 17, 2012 6:43 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I would like to remind everyone that Our Lady of Hypocrisy from California holds one of our most rarest of treasures found in this state: A permit to carry a concealed weapon.


  125. coldwarrior
    126 | December 17, 2012 6:43 pm

    @ lobo91:

    my HS still has a rifle team.

    anyway, arming some employees is not a bad idea. there are always a few that will take the responsibility, train em and pay em.


  126. coldwarrior
    127 | December 17, 2012 6:45 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Why has nobody suggested that she is unfit to serve as a Senator in that she is opposed to the Bill of Rights?

    that would require a real opposition party.

    republicans with guts and just as mean as democrats. the gop aint there yet.


  127. AZfederalist
    128 | December 17, 2012 6:46 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    but, in reality, its hard to stop a maniac.

    True. But at least some chance is better than no chance. With a maniac like this, people were going to die, however, had even one person in that school been armed, a teacher, principal, janitor, or maintenance worker, the number of fatalities may have been greatly reduced.

    Even with rapid response from the police, it is likely that they could not have prevented the widespread carnage given current ROE’s. SWAT first secures the perimeter, chases down anyone hiding in the woods, establishes a command center, then tries to make verbal contact with the perp. During that period of time, this lunatic would have continued his killing spree.


  128. 129 | December 17, 2012 6:46 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    I imagine History Channel will be cancelling “Top Shot” as a result as well. Probably the ONLY reality competition show that promoted good sportsmanship and merit.


  129. buzzsawmonkey
    130 | December 17, 2012 6:46 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    all politics is local my friend. just because you dont see shiny new offices in dc does not mean that we are ‘non existent’. these trappings are anathema to the movement. we do fiscon issues. taxed enough already. thats it. sorry to have disapointed you.

    Rodan wrote:

    What hurt the Tea Party was Bachmann claiming to represent them. Then these loons like Angle and O’Donnell claimed they were tea party.

    There was a similar loon running as faux-Tea Party in upstate NY; I forget his name. And, of course, Akin and Mourdock this last time around.

    It would be marvelous if the Tea Party, as purely local efforts, were to begin to re-take the country from the ground up. Maybe it will happen; I see little evidence of its being able to occur in any meaningful way in Bloomburgistan, where I live.


  130. coldwarrior
    131 | December 17, 2012 6:46 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    racist.


  131. 132 | December 17, 2012 6:47 pm

    @ AZfederalist:

    I pointed this out on another thread -- they ALWAYS go to gun-free zones, too. The Aurora shooter bypassed other theaters closer to him home showing “Dark Knight Rising” in order to go to the theater where he knew people would not be allowed to bring their own guns into the theater.


  132. Mars
    133 | December 17, 2012 6:48 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    see, we already played the gun control game and the dems got slaughtered because of it. they are smart enough not to do it again. they will fake toward it as a distraction. the dems are smart. they get politics.

    I hope so, but this is the most arrogant group I’ve ever seen. They truly seem to feel unstoppable. Not so sure that they are concerned anymore.


  133. coldwarrior
    134 | December 17, 2012 6:48 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    It would be marvelous if the Tea Party, as purely local efforts, were to begin to re-take the country from the ground up. Maybe it will happen; I see little evidence of its being able to occur in any meaningful way in Bloomburgistan, where I live.

    yinz have an uphill battle.

    we had it easy, this dem party left the old school conservative dems in the lurch. they are all republican now.

    change is slow, it will take may many election cycles to break the great society.


  134. 135 | December 17, 2012 6:48 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    see, we already played the gun control game and the dems got slaughtered because of it. they are smart enough not to do it again. they will fake toward it as a distraction. the dems are smart. they get politics.

    Methinks you’re underestimating the groundswell. 20 dead first-graders will make people abandon all reason to “Do Something Disease” even more readily than 3,000 dead Americans did on 9/11, and look what that rendered.


  135. buzzsawmonkey
    136 | December 17, 2012 6:49 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    I pointed this out on another thread — they ALWAYS go to gun-free zones, too. The Aurora shooter bypassed other theaters closer to him home showing “Dark Knight Rising” in order to go to the theater where he knew people would not be allowed to bring their own guns into the theater.

    I mentioned this to a lib friend this afternoon, who refused to believe it.


  136. lobo91
    137 | December 17, 2012 6:49 pm

    @ AZfederalist:

    Even with rapid response from the police, it is likely that they could not have prevented the widespread carnage given current ROE’s. SWAT first secures the perimeter, chases down anyone hiding in the woods, establishes a command center, then tries to make verbal contact with the perp. During that period of time, this lunatic would have continued his killing spree.

    They don’t respond to schools that way anymore. That’s what happened at Columbine, and it was clearly a disaster.

    They go in hard now.

    Supposedly, as soon as he heard the first sirens, this guy killed himself.


  137. coldwarrior
    138 | December 17, 2012 6:50 pm

    Mars wrote:

    I hope so, but this is the most arrogant group I’ve ever seen. They truly seem to feel unstoppable. Not so sure that they are concerned anymore.

    it wont pass congress.


  138. AZfederalist
    139 | December 17, 2012 6:50 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    except hers…she has a CC permit

    Heard Hannity Friday with Juan Williams and Ann Coulter. Juan of course was wringing his hands over the prevalence of guns and the ability of just anybody to get firearms. Hannity pointed out that he owned firearms and has had CCW for a number of years in multiple places he has worked. Juan made a very telling statement after Hannity’s statement, “Yes, but Sean, you are a public figure prominent member of the media and need to be able to protect yourself.” Think about that for a second; that is the liberals’ view of being able to defend oneself — if you are one of the “important” people, then firearm ownership is A-OK. One of the peons? Forget about it.

    Yet Juan is all over it when talking about “two Americas” and here he is, actually promoting such a division.


  139. 140 | December 17, 2012 6:50 pm

    @ heysoos:

    And I apologize as well.


  140. 141 | December 17, 2012 6:51 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Let’s see….dislike Obama intently…..TEA Party Patriot…..Likes guns.

    Yeah, I guess so -- I have the trifecta.


  141. buzzsawmonkey
    142 | December 17, 2012 6:51 pm

    Mars wrote:

    I hope so, but this is the most arrogant group I’ve ever seen. They truly seem to feel unstoppable. Not so sure that they are concerned anymore.

    People should consider that the Choom Gang may well want to provoke an armed confrontation with conservative Americans over the Administration’s flagrant disregard of the Constitution. To them, it would be a means of rallying public support for weapons confiscation.


  142. coldwarrior
    143 | December 17, 2012 6:52 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    in a week or two there will be another shiny object.

    after christms / new years this debate will be over. the bill dies in the senate. in the mean time this killing is great cover for the economic disaster we are headed toward.


  143. lobo91
    144 | December 17, 2012 6:52 pm

    @ AZfederalist:

    Think about that for a second; that is the liberals’ view of being able to defend oneself — if you are one of the “important” people, then firearm ownership is A-OK. One of the peons? Forget about it.

    That’s always been how it’s worked in places like NYC and San Francisco.


  144. 145 | December 17, 2012 6:52 pm

    @ AZfederalist:

    Oh, that’s precisely what all the Hollywood Celebs are saying -- we must get rid of guns! Translation: We get to keep our body guards and driveway gates -- you little people are of no consequence and can just fend for yourself.


  145. unclassifiable
    146 | December 17, 2012 6:53 pm

    @ AZfederalist:

    In liberalism there are no contradictions.


  146. 147 | December 17, 2012 6:55 pm

    @ lobo91:

    If you consider the 101 California shooting -- which gave FrankenFienstein her raison d’etre -- if only ONE person had had a CCW permit, they might have been able to minimize the carnage.

    I remember that day -- I worked across the street from 101 at that time. My son was 6 years old and when he saw the news report he said “oh, that’s the building where Mommy works!” (it was visible in the background). My sister was in near hysteria by the time I got home.


  147. AZfederalist
    148 | December 17, 2012 6:56 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    They go in hard now.

    Well, that’s good to hear, at least some lessons have been learned.


  148. lobo91
    149 | December 17, 2012 7:00 pm

    AZfederalist wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    They go in hard now.
    Well, that’s good to hear, at least some lessons have been learned.

    Columbine was a colossal screwup from a law enforcement standpoint. It’s difficult to point to anything they did right.


  149. 150 | December 17, 2012 7:05 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Carl Paladino.


  150. 151 | December 17, 2012 7:07 pm

    @ lobo91:

    And of course, the self-righteous and always inappropriate Michael Moore couldn’t wait to lie, distort, smear and make himself a buck off it. I’m sure he’ll be pushing for its re-release in theaters -- the FU-9/11 movie profits done be gone now -- he’s lost so much money on his last two fictions that he’s not exactly bankable anymore.


  151. lobo91
    152 | December 17, 2012 7:09 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    That was one of the most vile pieces of propaganda I’ve ever seen.

    Leni Riefenstahl would have been proud.


  152. 153 | December 17, 2012 7:13 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    in a week or two there will be another shiny object.

    after christms / new years this debate will be over. the bill dies in the senate. in the mean time this killing is great cover for the economic disaster we are headed toward.

    I guess we’ll see, but I think 20 dead first graders has an emotional punch that is incomparable to previous shootings.


  153. Speranza
    154 | December 17, 2012 7:15 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    And of course, the self-righteous and always inappropriate Michael Moore couldn’t wait to lie, distort, smear and make himself a buck off it. I’m sure he’ll be pushing for its re-release in theaters — the FU-9/11 movie profits done be gone now — he’s lost so much money on his last two fictions that he’s not exactly bankable anymore.

    “Bowling for Columbine” -- the two twerps did not go bowling that day.


  154. TolerantT
    155 | December 17, 2012 7:17 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    Completely agree. Such a tragedy, yet the politicians just can’t let it go (which ole Emmanuel said; don’t let a crisis go to waste).


  155. 156 | December 17, 2012 7:17 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:

    That was one of the most vile pieces of propaganda I’ve ever seen.

    Leni Riefenstahl would have been proud.

    The propaganda is working remarkably well of late; the people are malleable.


  156. lobo91
    157 | December 17, 2012 7:18 pm

    @ Speranza:

    “Bowling for Columbine” — the two twerps did not go bowling that day.

    There’s very little in that film that’s true.


  157. 158 | December 17, 2012 7:19 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I’m sure Showtime will be rerunning it “as soon as appropriate.”
    I do remember the people in the bank when he was filming that whole “get a free gun when you open a CD” telling him that he had to fill out forms and go through a mandatory waiting period, etc., etc., and he asked if he could just film coming out with the rifle. They said yes (and there are two bank people on either side to take the gun back after the cameras stopped rolling). They were surprised when they saw how he portrayed it.

    But it was the out-right deceptive editing and smear of Charlton Heston that makes me want to punch this lard-ass in his glass jaw.


  158. TolerantT
    159 | December 17, 2012 7:19 pm

    Let the victims and this nation have time to grieve.


  159. 160 | December 17, 2012 7:23 pm

    TolerantT wrote:

    Let the victims and this nation have time to grieve.

    Such would be the sentiments of a civilized lot, but those less so believe in striking when the iron is hot


  160. lobo91
    161 | December 17, 2012 7:26 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    But it was the out-right deceptive editing and smear of Charlton Heston that makes me want to punch this lard-ass in his glass jaw.

    Like when he made it look like a speech he gave in Detroit prior to the Columbine shootings was actually given in Denver afterwards.


  161. 162 | December 17, 2012 7:28 pm

    @ lobo91:

    He spliced together various pieces of the speech, left out the announcement that the NRA was cancelling all events and only holding the membership vote required by law of all non-profits. Then he sleazes his way into Heston’s house on the pretext of an “interview” and sneers at a man with Alzheimer’s.


  162. Mars
    163 | December 17, 2012 7:31 pm

    Mike Al-Moore is not Satan, but he may have eaten him.


  163. 164 | December 17, 2012 7:31 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Fake and Hype 9/11 was another one. 59 documented deceptions. It was a huge success -- of course, whole classes in high school and college were taken to the movie theater to see it and they used it for huge fundraisers. I imagine the DVD sales were non-existent — as were the box office receipts for Lard Ass’s later ventures.


  164. 165 | December 17, 2012 7:33 pm

    Mars wrote:

    Mike Al-Moore is not Satan, but he may have eaten him.

    Well done!! :D


  165. Mars
    166 | December 17, 2012 7:35 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    Fake and Hype 9/11 was another one. 59 documented deceptions. It was a huge success — of course, whole classes in high school and college were taken to the movie theater to see it and they used it for huge fundraisers. I imagine the DVD sales were non-existent — as were the box office receipts for Lard Ass’s later ventures.

    I countered at my college by running Michael Moore Hates America, Shooting Michael Moore, and Fahrenhype 9-11.

    One benefit of being an older student, I made a lot of contacts that provided me some amazing dvd’s.


  166. 167 | December 17, 2012 7:42 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    SpongeMike Sweatpants has been sticking his nose all over the place lately -- I think that two things have happened -- he’s really irritated that no one gives a crap about him anymore and he’s going through some serious twinkie/ding dong/ho-ho withdrawal.


  167. lobo91
    168 | December 17, 2012 8:16 pm

    Oh, joy…Leaky Leahy is now third in line for the presidency.


  168. lobo91
    169 | December 17, 2012 8:17 pm

    Juan Williams is making a fool of himself again.

    He thinks there should be a background check for someone’s entire family before they can buy a gun.


  169. Mars
    170 | December 17, 2012 8:19 pm

    Libs now proclaiming victory over the NRA, saying they forced the NRA to hide their Facebook page.


  170. 171 | December 17, 2012 8:19 pm

    @ Mars:

    I would say Stan ate Mike al-Moor instead….


  171. lobo91
    172 | December 17, 2012 8:20 pm

    Mars wrote:

    Libs now proclaiming victory over the NRA, saying they forced the NRA to hide their Facebook page.

    I didn’t realize that they had one.

    Shows how important it is.


  172. Mars
    174 | December 17, 2012 8:28 pm

    Ten Reagan quotes:

    10. “Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.”

    —Remarks at a business conference, Los Angeles, March 2, 1977

    9. “You can tell a lot about a fellow’s character by his way of eating jellybeans.”

    —The Observer, March 29, 1981

    8. “Thomas Jefferson once said, “We should never judge a president by his age, only by his works.’ And ever since he told me that, I stopped worrying.”

    —Circa 1988

    7. “I have left orders to be awakened at any time in case of national emergency, even if I’m in a cabinet meeting.”

    —Said often during his presidency, 1981-1989

    6. “How do you tell a communist? Well, it’s someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It’s someone who understands Marx and Lenin.”

    —Remarks in Arlington, Virginia, September 25, 1987

    5. “The government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”

    —Remarks to the White House Conference on Small Business, August 15, 1986

    4. “I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself.”

    —Said often during his presidency, 1981-1989

    3. “All great change in America begins at the dinner table.”

    —Farewell Address to the Nation, The White House, January 11, 1989

    2. “I’ve noticed that everyone who is for abortion has already been born.”

    —The New York Times, September 22, 1980

    1. “There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn’t mind who gets the credit.”

    — First Inaugural Address, January 21, 1981

    http://weaselzippers.us/2012/02/06/happy-101st-birthday-president-ronald-reagan/


  173. brookly red
    175 | December 17, 2012 8:31 pm

    Macker wrote:

    @ Mars:

    I would say Stan ate Mike al-Moor instead….

    meh, either way you are what you eat.


  174. coldwarrior
    176 | December 17, 2012 8:36 pm

    @ brookly red:

    we are carbon chains.


  175. coldwarrior
    177 | December 17, 2012 8:38 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    we are carbon chains.

    with anchovies.


  176. brookly red
    178 | December 17, 2012 8:39 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    we are carbon chains.

    hush, the EPA will try to ban us…


  177. coldwarrior
    179 | December 17, 2012 8:40 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    we are carbon chains.

    hush, the EPA will try to ban us…

    coldwarrior wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    we are carbon chains.

    with anchovies.

    so will bloomberg


  178. Speranza
    180 | December 17, 2012 8:43 pm

    Regarding Chuck Hagel -- generally speaking the overwhelming majority of Republican Senators/Congressmen/Cabinet members since 1967 have been pro Israel, however there are some infamous exceptions:

    Congressmen -- Paul Findlay of Illinois, Ron Paul of Texas
    Senators -- Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, Mark Hatfield of Oregon
    Cabinet members -- Casper Weinberger (Defense Secretary), James Baker (Secretary of State), Brent Scowcroft (National Security Adviser)


  179. brookly red
    181 | December 17, 2012 8:44 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    we are carbon chains.

    with anchovies.

    so will bloomberg

    bloomberg won’t try to ban me bloomberg loves me… he loves me so much he spends his entire day trying to protect me from my self…


  180. coldwarrior
    182 | December 17, 2012 8:47 pm

    @ brookly red:

    he wont love you after you are found to be the leader of the pizza revolution…take back nyc, one slice at a time.


  181. brookly red
    183 | December 17, 2012 8:51 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    he wont love you after you are found to be the leader of the pizza revolution…take back nyc, one slice at a time.

    snitches get stiches


  182. coldwarrior
    184 | December 17, 2012 8:53 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    he wont love you after you are found to be the leader of the pizza revolution…take back nyc, one slice at a time.

    snitches get stiches

    and swim with the fishes


  183. waldensianspirit
    185 | December 17, 2012 8:55 pm

    Bloomberg needs to get laid


  184. lobo91
    186 | December 17, 2012 8:56 pm

    I just sent O’Reilly an email debunking some of the crap Juan Williams has been spewing on his show.

    I don’t expect to see it on-air…


  185. waldensianspirit
    187 | December 17, 2012 8:58 pm

    CBI Deals With Massive Influx Of Potential Gun Buyers

    The proggies have grabbed a tiger by the tail


  186. 96cid
    188 | December 17, 2012 8:59 pm

    @ AZfederalist:
    Juan is also an idiot who believes people are getting “free” screenings with the passage of Obamacare. What he doesn’t understand is they aren’t really free, one is paying up front with increased premiums. The proper term used should be no co-pay, not free.


  187. lobo91
    189 | December 17, 2012 9:00 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Yup. They crashed the system Saturday. It didn’t come back online until about 11 am Sunday.

    The crowds at the gun show were unreal.


  188. brookly red
    190 | December 17, 2012 9:01 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    CBI Deals With Massive Influx Of Potential Gun Buyers

    The proggies have grabbed a tiger by the tail

    at the end of the day who do you fear more, your neighbor or your government?


  189. waldensianspirit
    192 | December 17, 2012 9:03 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    at the end of the day who do you fear more, your neighbor or your government?

    Government. No contest


  190. Da_Beerfreak
    193 | December 17, 2012 9:04 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    it wont pass congress.

    Congress is not the problem; it’s Obama’s EOs and the alphabet agencies I’m worried about. :evil:


  191. brookly red
    194 | December 17, 2012 9:06 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    at the end of the day who do you fear more, your neighbor or your government?

    Government. No contest

    well my question was a rhetorical answer to
    187 | December 17, 2012 8:58 pm
    CBI Deals With Massive Influx Of Potential Gun Buyers

    The proggies have grabbed a tiger by the tail


  192. waldensianspirit
    195 | December 17, 2012 9:10 pm

    @ brookly red:
    yep I knew. Just putting emPHAsis on the right syLABel :-)


  193. lobo91
    196 | December 17, 2012 9:11 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Another interesting thing about that story is that the number of guns sold in Colorado over the weekend was probably considerably greater than 7,155 background checks would indicate.

    The way the system works here is that once you have a successful result from CBI, you can literally buy everything in the store. When the waits get to be really long, people actually tend to buy more guns, since they figure it’s easier than coming back on another day and doing it all again.


  194. brookly red
    197 | December 17, 2012 9:18 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    yep I knew. Just putting emPHAsis on the right syLABel

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    yep I knew. Just putting emPHAsis on the right syLABel

    it is an interesting thing, We Americans will give up our money, our privacy, our dignity, and in many ways our freedoms.. but not ability to protect ourselves. The spirit lives.


  195. Speranza
    198 | December 17, 2012 9:41 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    I just sent O’Reilly an email debunking some of the crap Juan Williams has been spewing on his show.
    I don’t expect to see it on-air…

    That’s probably a good bet.


  196. Speranza
    199 | December 17, 2012 9:42 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    bloomberg won’t try to ban me bloomberg loves me… he loves me so much he spends his entire day trying to protect me from my self

    He has got too much time on his hands and too much money -- a dangerous combination.


  197. Speranza
    200 | December 17, 2012 9:43 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    There was a similar loon running as faux-Tea Party in upstate NY; I forget his name. And, of course, Akin and Mourdock this last time around.

    Carl Paladino was a certifiable psych job. Yet the yahoos loved his rhetoric.


  198. coldwarrior
    201 | December 17, 2012 9:43 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    He has got too much time on his hands and too much money — a dangerous combination.

    sounds like he needs a cocaine addiction then.


  199. coldwarrior
    202 | December 17, 2012 9:47 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:
    There was a similar loon running as faux-Tea Party in upstate NY; I forget his name. And, of course, Akin and Mourdock this last time around.
    Carl Paladino was a certifiable psych job. Yet the yahoos loved his rhetoric.

    that dude made me cringe.


  200. Speranza
    203 | December 17, 2012 9:56 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    He has got too much time on his hands and too much money — a dangerous combination.

    sounds like he needs a cocaine addiction then.

    I think he is addicted to transfats. lol
    Being Mayor is too boring for him.


  201. Speranza
    204 | December 17, 2012 9:57 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    that dude made me cringe.

    A long list of GOP candidates who have made me cringe the past two years starting with the Angle, O’Donnell, Akin and Mourdock Senate gang.


  202. coldwarrior
    205 | December 17, 2012 10:02 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    that dude made me cringe.
    A long list of GOP candidates who have made me cringe the past two years starting with the Angle, O’Donnell, Akin and Mourdock Senate gang.

    my dad, an old school dem, now independent, and former union guy, vietnam vet, and all round conservative catholic laughs every time an idiot pops up in the gop.

    then i get the phone call or we talk at the club…’are you guys nuts???’ ‘it sure looks like you guys are nits’ is how he begins the conversation.


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