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The Washington Post thinks that the iron dome anti-missile system is anti peace; the E.U. will soon list Hezbollah as a terrorist group

by Speranza ( 107 Comments › )
Filed under Hamas, Hezballah, IDF, Iraq, Islamic Terrorism, Israel, Media, Palestinians, Syria, Turkey at December 19th, 2012 - 12:00 pm

File this under  the heading of  “Can you believe this dreck”? Recently on PBS an idiot named Mark Shields actually complained that only a few Israelis were killed by Hamas’s rockets while scores of Palestinians have been killed, Charles Krauthammer rolled his eyes at him  and gave him a “What kind of moron are you?” stare.

by Barry Rubin

I hate to spend time discussing US media coverage of Israel. It should be clearly understood that in general this coverage is a farce and should not be taken seriously. Yet there are examples which are irresistible because they are so revealing of the political as well as media assumptions made about Israel that so mislead the Western public and policymakers.

The Washington Post ran a major article explaining that while, on one hand, the Iron Dome missile defense system is a good thing because it blocks missiles that would otherwise kill and injure Israelis as well as cause damage, it is also a bad thing. Thomas Friedman made similar claims. Why? “For a nation that longs for normalcy and acceptance, one question being debated here is whether Iron Dome will motivate Israel’s leaders to pursue peace with the Palestinians and the wider Arab world or insulate them from having to do so.”

In other words, if a lot more Israelis were being killed and wounded, Israel would have more incentive to make peace with the Palestinians and Arabs. But since their lives are merely being paralyzed, Israel just isn’t interested in making peace.

And who is “debating” this? Well, basically the Post comes up with one name: left-wing author Tom Segev.

Nobody is interviewed who ridicules this bizarre thesis.

And who in Israel is arguing that if only they were more bloodied, their hearts would be softened and they would prefer peace to endless conflict? Supposedly Israelis are saying: “Wow, we wish our leaders tried harder to make peace with the Palestinians. Maybe it’s because we are too strong and secure.” Well, basically the Post comes up with one name: left-wing author Tom Segev.  [........]

JUST TO make the situation completely clear let me be very explicit: In the 1980s and in 1993 at the time of the Oslo agreements many Israelis argued that because Israel was more secure it could take risks and make concessions to try to achieve peace. A number of specific steps, including Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, were based on this same premise.

[.........]

That’s the historic argument: The more secure Israel was, the more it could offer the Palestinians in the hope that they would make peace. Is that clear? When a country becomes less secure it must increase its ability to protect itself, including by retaining territory useful for that defense, spending more on military equipment, and not making concessions and taking risks. The only exception is if people feel certain that such concessions and risks would definitely bring a full response from the other side and thus lead to a secure and lasting peace.

Now even leaving aside the Palestinian Authority’s intransigence and desire – clearly visible for the past 12 years – to avoid a compromise two-state solution, Israel also faces the following new regional features:

• Hamas, which constantly attacks Israel and would continue to do so (indeed, it would escalate attacks) if Israel did reach an agreement with the PA.

• An Islamist Egypt whose ruling Muslim Brotherhood group daily speaks of genocide against Israel and Jews, plus not accepting the 30-year-old peace treaty, not to mention the even more extreme Salafists.

• An Islamist-ruled Lebanon, where Hezbollah, the ruling group, constantly threatens to attack and also daily calls for Israel’s extinction.

• A hostile Turkey whose rulers support Hamas and Hezbollah.

• A Syria where radical Islamists seem poised to gain power. They cannot possibly be more anti-Israel than the current regime, but they are willing to make the anti-Israel war a higher priority for direct action.

So this is an era where Israel clearly needs to defend itself. Compare this to the early 1990s.

Saddam Hussein had been defeated in the 1991 war; the radical Arabs’ main ally, the USSR, had fallen; America was the sole superpower; the PLO was so weak and depressed that it seemed conceivable it might be pushed into peace because it had no other alternative (in contrast to the contemporary Palestinian Authority which just got recognition as a state and is feeling very confident); and other factors.
[........]

SO HOW do we get from here to demands that Israel must keep doing what has failed and the claim that the weaker Israel’s strategic position, the more it can and should make concessions and take risks? Such a stance is just about equivalent to saying it is a pity US counter-terrorism measures are working, because if more September 11-type attacks were to succeed, Americans would be nicer to Muslims.

Or that if the British air force had only not defeated the Luftwaffe, perhaps prime minister Winston Churchill wouldn’t have been so insulated from the need to make peace with the Axis.

What’s most infuriating about all of this is not just that Israel has tried so hard to make peace – including risks and concessions – but that the very attacks referred to in the Washington Post article were made possible only because Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in an attempt to promote peace! Yet the essential insanity of the kind of thinking epitomized by this article is shielded when it comes to Israel, by the media’s bias and sense that it can get away with any nonsense when it comes to discussing Israel.

MEANWHILE, THERE is some concern among Israeli intelligence officials with regard to a possible new intifadah in the West Bank. This would be due to new confidence created by the UN’s decision to make Palestine a non-member state (the UN’s contribution to peacemaking); a rapprochement between the PA, which rules the West Bank, and Hamas, which rules the Gaza Strip; and the PA’s wish to compete with Hamas in attacking Israel and trying to kill Israelis.

Following the logic of the Washington Post we should hope lots of Israelis are killed by terrorists as a way to pressure those obdurate Israelis to make peace.

The Washington Post article basically follows the same Palestinian political line that has prevailed since the 1960s: forget about a negotiated compromise, Israel must be defeated, and Israelis made to suffer. The main goal is to get Israelis to give up altogether and abandon their state; the shorter-term goal is to get Israelis to accept a Palestinian state unconditionally so it can get on with the task of finishing that job.

BEFORE AROUND 1980, the above analysis would have been considered normative in Israel. Between the 1980s and 2000, when there was rising hope of a compromise peace with the PLO and its child, the PA, it would have been considered a right-wing view.  [........]

Internationally, the refusal to face the fact that the Palestinian side is responsible for the failure of peace leads to such bizarre theories and blinds people to the actual situation.

Read the rest - Is iron dome anti peace?

Chuck Hagel several years ago refused to sign a letter to the EU asking that Hezbollah be designated as a terror group. Something to think about, if Hezbollah is not a terrorist group I do not know who is.

by Hilary Leila Krieger

The US State Department indicated Tuesday that it expected the EU to finally designate Hezbollah as a terrorist organization, following an intensive US lobbying campaign and suspected Hezbollah plots on European soil.

“We’ve been engaging with our partners in Europe and we are cautiously optimistic – at last – about the prospects for an EU designation of the group,” Daniel Benjamin, the State Department’s coordinator for counterterrorism, said during an address at the Brookings Institution.

Benjamin, speaking later to The Jerusalem Post, didn’t give a specific date when he anticipated the designation to be made, but suggested the Europeans will have to “think hard about things in the next few months.”

The US and Israel have long pressed the EU to include the Lebanese group on its terror list, and recently US officials have publicly been making the case that that designation would help with enforcement efforts against the organization and its criminal activities.

Benjamin told the Post that the US has also been sharing information with European counterparts on Hezbollah’s increased activities in their region.

The US and Israel have accused Hezbollah of being behind a bombing that killed Israeli tourists in Bulgaria in July and a disrupted plot against Israelis in Cyprus less than two weeks earlier.

[......]
Clear Hezbollah ties to the attack could be a significant factor in the EU determination on whether to label Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

“Obviously if the Europeans feel that the proof is decisive then they’ll have to confront the fact that Hezbollah carried out an attack in Europe,” Benjamin said.

Benjamin, speaking ahead of his departure from the State Department, told Brookings that overall the appeal of extremist groups such as al-Qaida is diminishing.

“There are clearly indications that the al-Qaida message continues to wane in popularity,” he asserted.

He said that many of the new governments in the Middle East are also contributing to eroding the capabilities of this and similar groups.

“These governments increasingly show the will to tackle the terror threat,” he said, pointing to the attack on the US outpost in Benghazi, Libya, in September that left four American diplomats dead as an act that awoke many to the internal threat posed by terror groups.

[.......]

“The populations that have historically produced lots of the extremists, these people aren’t interested in violent extremism but in building better lives for their families and their communities within the international system,” he said.

But he added that despite these positive developments, “This is not a reason to relax.”

Read the rest – EU will soon list Hezbollah terrorist group, US expects

 

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107 Responses to “The Washington Post thinks that the iron dome anti-missile system is anti peace; the E.U. will soon list Hezbollah as a terrorist group”
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  1. texasam7
    1 | December 19, 2012 12:16 pm

    So did we all wake up in 1938, or what!?


  2. Speranza
    2 | December 19, 2012 12:33 pm

    texasam7 wrote:

    So did we all wake up in 1938, or what!?

    It does have a whiff of 1938 to it.


  3. Speranza
    3 | December 19, 2012 12:34 pm

    The Hagel Backlash they referred to Hagel and Richard Lugar (two appeasers of Iran) as Hagar the Horrible.


  4. Speranza
    4 | December 19, 2012 12:36 pm

    Hamas had the crap beat out of her the last month. that is what is killing the Left.


  5. 5 | December 19, 2012 12:44 pm

    They reveal their anti-Semitism. THey want more dead Israelis because they want more Jews to die. It really is that simple.


  6. Speranza
    6 | December 19, 2012 1:00 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    They reveal their anti-Semitism. THey want more dead Israelis because they want more Jews to die. It really is that simple.

    I cannot disagree with you. they loved it in 2002 when Israeli Jews were getting blown up day after day.


  7. Lily
    7 | December 19, 2012 1:16 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    texasam7 wrote:
    So did we all wake up in 1938, or what!?
    It does have a whiff of 1938 to it.

    More so than I would like to admit. Different names, places and people…but still danger in the air and too many wanting Israel gone.


  8. Lily
    8 | December 19, 2012 1:26 pm

    Not wasting anytime in trying for the gun grab…let’s see Biden the new head of a committee against violent crime and now this…

    Dem Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee Demands Law-Abiding Americans Disarm, “Turn In Your Guns”…

    Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas) on Wednesday afternoon urged people to turn in their guns, arguing it would be an appropriate response to last week’s mass shooting in Newtown, Conn.

    “I would personally just say to those who are listening, maybe you want to turn in your guns,” Jackson Lee said on the House floor. “Oh no, I’m not going to take your guns. But look at what Dick’s Sporting Goods did … they wanted to be part of the solution and part of America.”

    Dick’s Sporting Goods announced this week that it would stop selling and displaying guns at its store closest to Newtown, and would suspend the sale of modern sporting rifles nation-wide out of respect for the victims of the shooting.

    http://weaselzippers.us/2012/12/19/dem-rep-sheila-jackson-lee-demands-law-abiding-americans-disarm-turn-in-your-guns/


  9. Lily
    9 | December 19, 2012 1:28 pm

    No sooner than I’m back on the blog…I kill a thread. Darn it! :(


  10. lobo91
    10 | December 19, 2012 1:30 pm

    @ Lily:

    So Dick’s “wants to be part of America”?

    I guess that implies that those of us who choose not to give up our rights are not “part of America.”

    As I said earlier, these people are quickly becoming the “domestic enemies” my oath of office mentions.


  11. MikeA
    11 | December 19, 2012 1:38 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Cheaper Than Dirt has also suspended selling guns. Lots of people are saying they are not going to use them anymore. CTD has gone PC so the heck with them.


  12. Lily
    12 | December 19, 2012 1:39 pm

    @ lobo91:

    They are are really doing a number on this horrific tragedy IMO. And I do believe you are correct concerning domestic enemies too.
    The media acts like this is the first time this has ever happened..and I agree it is horrific indeed. But how excatly are you going to prevent such a tragedy? Especially if someone is intent on doing it? Although the name may be misleading it was a crime. The people in the media as usual are not doing their jobs. Oh and no guns were used either.

    Bath School disaster

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster


  13. 13 | December 19, 2012 1:39 pm

    @ Lily:

    Come and take them.


  14. 14 | December 19, 2012 1:42 pm

    Yeah, Dick’s is gonna have a real hard time unloading those “modern sporting rifles” to another vendor…

    /

    S. J. Lee apparently hasn’t noticed the response to all the news of the last 5 days -- sales breaking records set only weeks ago.


  15. lobo91
    15 | December 19, 2012 1:42 pm

    @ Lily:

    The person who had the main responsibility for preventing this attack was the mother. These were her guns that he used.. They should have been locked up so he couldn’t access them.

    There’s nothing the government can do about that.


  16. 17 | December 19, 2012 1:44 pm

    @ MikeA:

    I always preferred Midway USA anyway. But don’t bother going there looking for magazines -- ain’t none. The only mags in stock for Mini-14s this AM were 5 and 10 round. CA mags.


  17. Lily
    18 | December 19, 2012 1:46 pm

    @ MikeA:

    Why aren’t they going after the real problem here? The mentally ill? And no not all mentally ill people are violent..but we have a problem even treating the non-violent mentally ill people. It was all or nothing and our country went with nothing. Trying to find help for a mentally ill relative is in and of itself a nightmare especially if the person you are trying to help thinks there is nothing wrong with them but they also see three people that and no one else sees…I have seen the problems concerning getting help. Even if you manage to get them help then it’s a whole new ball game getting them to take their meds.
    Why weren’t these guns locked up especially if the mother knew her son was unstable?


  18. lobo91
    19 | December 19, 2012 1:47 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ MikeA:

    I always preferred Midway USA anyway. But don’t bother going there looking for magazines — ain’t none. The only mags in stock for Mini-14s this AM were 5 and 10 round. CA mags.

    I always do as much business with them as I can.

    Larry and Brenda Potterfield are good people.


  19. Lily
    20 | December 19, 2012 1:48 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Come and take them.

    Probably will not get too much traction in the South. But obama certainly isn’t wasting any time in trying to go after our guns after this horrific crime.


  20. lobo91
    21 | December 19, 2012 1:49 pm

    @ Lily:

    I’ll bet there were high fives all around in the White House when the news broke of this crime.


  21. 22 | December 19, 2012 1:49 pm

    @ Mike C.:

    The left will hiss at this, but it sends a thrill up my leg when Americans buy record numbers of guns. Not only is it good for the economy and a way to supress crime, but it just might make the feds nervous. I like it when the citizens of this country make the feds nervous…


  22. Lily
    23 | December 19, 2012 1:52 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    The person who had the main responsibility for preventing this attack was the mother. These were her guns that he used.. They should have been locked up so he couldn’t access them.
    There’s nothing the government can do about that.

    Good point … how do you prevent something like this when the person who could have stopped it is also dead by not locking those guns away. If obama doesn’t want anything ever bad to happen to our country again..good luck on that. A really, really bad thing happened on Nov. 6 2012 he was re-elected. He could always step down too to help this country.
    /yes I’m dreaming.


  23. 24 | December 19, 2012 1:55 pm

    @ Lily:

    They were waiting for something like this to happen. It was always a matter of time. I’ve been warning that Obama would come for gun control in his second term. We’ll see how the House does. The Republicans had better stand firm here.


  24. 25 | December 19, 2012 1:59 pm

    Lily wrote:

    the person who could have stopped it is also dead by not locking those guns away.

    There is that, but there is also the fact that schools are by law so-called “Gun Free Zones”. This eans that people with carry permits can’t carry there. One teacher with a gun could have saved a couple of dozen lives. That is simply the truth. Instead of trying the impossible, we should look at possible solutions. One reason people like this go after schools is that they know no one will be shooting back at them.


  25. Lily
    26 | December 19, 2012 2:01 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    I’ll bet there were high fives all around in the White House when the news broke of this crime.

    I kinda of agree with you here…at least they didn’t have to make anything up.


  26. Lily
    27 | December 19, 2012 2:03 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Lily:
    They were waiting for something like this to happen. It was always a matter of time. I’ve been warning that Obama would come for gun control in his second term. We’ll see how the House does. The Republicans had better stand firm here.

    Oh I couldn’t agree with you more..that obama was going to come for our guns big time during a second term..and it appears he isn’t disappointing on that matter.


  27. citizen_q
    28 | December 19, 2012 2:04 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Why aren’t they going after the real problem here?

    The poly-ticks (as in many blood-sucking parasites) and their media prostitutes are not interested in solving problems. The are interested in persuading people to think that is what they want while they leverage events for political advantage, power and their their vassal’s wealth.


  28. Lily
    29 | December 19, 2012 2:05 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    the person who could have stopped it is also dead by not locking those guns away.
    There is that, but there is also the fact that schools are by law so-called “Gun Free Zones”. This eans that people with carry permits can’t carry there. One teacher with a gun could have saved a couple of dozen lives. That is simply the truth. Instead of trying the impossible, we should look at possible solutions. One reason people like this go after schools is that they know no one will be shooting back at them.

    Do you think he thought that far ahead???


  29. unclassifiable
    30 | December 19, 2012 2:06 pm

    Check this out.

    The same group of folks that think that it is impossible to round up 12 million or so “undocumented” workers (and really if they are undocumented then why is there so much written about them — hmmmmm) believes it can round up 200 million documented guns.

    You can be ignorant. Hell everyone is ignorant about something. But when your ignorance is called and you stil insist on remaining so then you are stupid.


  30. Lily
    31 | December 19, 2012 2:07 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Why aren’t they going after the real problem here?
    The poly-ticks (as in many blood-sucking parasites) and their media prostitutes are not interested in solving problems. The are interested in persuading people to think that is what they want while they leverage events for political advantage, power and their their vassal’s wealth.

    Yep and people still believe the lies that were put out after Columbine to this day. Lies seem to stick while the truth is shredded.


  31. unclassifiable
    32 | December 19, 2012 2:10 pm

    BTW Lily I killed a thread yesterday acting as a temp thread-killer standing in for you.

    It was an honor:)


  32. 33 | December 19, 2012 2:11 pm

    @ Lily:

    Yeah, I think that calculation enters their head. It is no coincidence that every mass shooting that has happened since the 1950 where over three people have been killed has happened at a place where guns are in some way forbidden. It isn’ always that someone thinks that way. Read the special report Coldwarrior put up about where the guy with the concealed gun stopped a mass shooting. BUt a significant percentage of these people think that ay. Yes, they are mentally ill, but they still know right from wrong, and they have willingly chosen wrong. They are calculating no resistance into their plans for rampage. IF they were looking for suicide in a shoot-out, they’d pull this shit at a police headquarters or the like. Try and do this at a gun shop, and get killed before they’ve gotten off ten shots.


  33. unclassifiable
    34 | December 19, 2012 2:12 pm

    @ Lily:

    It’s not that they believe in lies. It is that the lies reinforce their pre-conceived notions thus giving them the aura of godliness.

    This, of course renders any opposition to merely be the blathering of the unchosen.


  34. 35 | December 19, 2012 2:13 pm

    @ Lily:

    I was in highschool when Columbine happened. The school’s response was to issue each student an I.D. that they had to wear around their necks at all times. I constantly questioned teachers and admins as to how this would change anything. It wasn’t as if there were outsiders that commited the massacre. On top of that idiocy, they placed this feeble 65+ year old woman at the entrance to the school to check if students were wearing them. She also would check in visitors. It was such an empty gesture that it was insulting really. I explained time and again, because I was constantly stopped for not wearing it, that if someone wanted to get in and do harm there was nothing stopping them. Especially a stupid piece of plastic with a picture and name on it.


  35. citizen_q
    36 | December 19, 2012 2:13 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Yep and people still believe the lies that were put out after Columbine to this day. Lies seem to stick while the truth is shredded.

    Which is why it is particularly evil when media outlets like msnbc purposefully manipulate data to slant the news like they did in the Zimmerman lynching. Oh, yeah an apology and update might happen if they are caught red-handed, but it happens so late, and is usually so tepid that it does not impact the effects of their propaganda.


  36. 37 | December 19, 2012 2:14 pm

    @ unclassifiable:

    It’s more like 300 million undocumented guns. All they care about is making gun owners criminals. Then they can arrest them whenever they like. It is like that film maker that is in jail for insulting Islam’s “Prophet”. Sure, he was in techinical violation of his probation, but they don’t usually jail you for something like that. He’s going to be in for a year for thought crime. They want gun owners subject to that kind of arrest.


  37. 38 | December 19, 2012 2:14 pm

    BTW Lily, I’m thrilled to see you here happy and healthy. :-)


  38. 39 | December 19, 2012 2:18 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I did this post at DOD.

    The issue is not guns, It’s mental illness. How many times have there been signs these mass shooters were crazy. Yet there is no mechanism to deal with these people. That is the problem. The lack of a mechanism to deal with mentally unstable people.


  39. Lily
    40 | December 19, 2012 2:18 pm

    @ linoleumknife:

    Thanks LK… still very sore …and tired. But still ticking! :)


  40. 41 | December 19, 2012 2:19 pm

    @ Lily:

    Wow… Tough crowd today, can’t even get a chuckle of of you… :shock:


  41. Lily
    42 | December 19, 2012 2:19 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    BTW Lily I killed a thread yesterday acting as a temp thread-killer standing in for you.
    It was an honor:)

    LOL! 8-)


  42. 43 | December 19, 2012 2:20 pm

    @ Rodan:

    BIGOT!!!! You would strip someone of their civil right to be a threat to society because of what you deem normal?!

    /typical leftist idiocy


  43. 44 | December 19, 2012 2:20 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    The Hagel Backlash they referred to Hagel and Richard Lugar (two appeasers of Iran) as Hagar the Horrible.

    I wonder who Hagel likes more, Iran/Hizballah or the Muslim Brotherhood?


  44. RIX
    45 | December 19, 2012 2:20 pm

    Bohener, just said that they are going to send the House plan to avoid
    the fiscal cliff to the Senate. “If the President doesn’t line up Democrat
    votes , then the tax increase is on him.”


  45. 46 | December 19, 2012 2:21 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    texasam7 wrote:
    So did we all wake up in 1938, or what!?

    It does have a whiff of 1938 to it.

    Na, this is more like 638 when the Caliphate was rising.


  46. 47 | December 19, 2012 2:22 pm

    @ RIX:

    Well butter my butt and call me Susan! Ole’ Bonehead found his manhood huh? LOL, how are you RIX?


  47. Lily
    48 | December 19, 2012 2:22 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Yeah, I think that calculation enters their head. It is no coincidence that every mass shooting that has happened since the 1950 where over three people have been killed has happened at a place where guns are in some way forbidden. It isn’ always that someone thinks that way. Read the special report Coldwarrior put up about where the guy with the concealed gun stopped a mass shooting. BUt a significant percentage of these people think that ay. Yes, they are mentally ill, but they still know right from wrong, and they have willingly chosen wrong. They are calculating no resistance into their plans for rampage. IF they were looking for suicide in a shoot-out, they’d pull this shit at a police headquarters or the like. Try and do this at a gun shop, and get killed before they’ve gotten off ten shots.

    Suicide by cop? Or he could have just committed suicide. Tragic he had to go to a school zone to make his last statement. And you are probably correct.


  48. 49 | December 19, 2012 2:22 pm

    linoleumknife wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    BIGOT!!!! You would strip someone of their civil right to be a threat to society because of what you deem normal?!
    /typical leftist idiocy

    The Left in all it’s stripes talks about “the greater good.” Well then in the name of the greater good, we need to start locking up loons!

    See how the argument can be thrown back at them!

    It’s amazing that the Progressive Left is downplaying the mental illness part.


  49. 50 | December 19, 2012 2:24 pm

    @ Rodan:

    LOL, that’s because a great deal of them would find themselves under the care of nurse Rachet (sp?).


  50. 51 | December 19, 2012 2:26 pm

    @ Rodan:

    When a sizable portion of your voting block is criminaly insane, OWS comes to mind, then you would be reluctant to promote that type of policy.


  51. RIX
    52 | December 19, 2012 2:26 pm

    linoleumknife wrote:

    @ RIX:

    Well butter my butt and call me Susan! Ole’ Bonehead found his manhood huh? LOL, how are you RIX?

    Yeah, he is pretty much calling out Obama.
    I’m good Knife, how are you doing?


  52. 53 | December 19, 2012 2:27 pm

    @ linoleumknife:

    I think 80% of the Democrat Party and 30% of GOP politicians would be in mental asylums if we had a mechanism to deal with. Joe Biden comes immediately to mind.


  53. Lily
    54 | December 19, 2012 2:28 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    @ Lily:
    It’s not that they believe in lies. It is that the lies reinforce their pre-conceived notions thus giving them the aura of godliness.
    This, of course renders any opposition to merely be the blathering of the unchosen.

    True…nothing you can say will change their mind. If the lies fit with how they think then they believe it.


  54. 55 | December 19, 2012 2:29 pm

    @ linoleumknife:

    Yeah, it would mean alot of their voters are locked up.


  55. 56 | December 19, 2012 2:29 pm

    @ Rodan:

    I can’t look at DoD at work. It is classified as “Adult Material”. It’s all the porn Beed links :P

    You are right, though. The question is what to do with the mentally ill. They keep saying they wantthem in the system so that they can’t pass a background check to get a gun. Well and good, I guess, except if they are so goddamned dangerous you are worried about them getting a gun, why are you letting them run around the street where they can get an axe or claw hammer and kill somebody that way? This is just an excuse to go after guns. Like I said earlier, Obama has been waiting on this ever since he won re-election. He was looking for an issue he could demagog into passing the strict gun control they want. They don’t care about crime or crime victims, just in creating a new class of criminals out of gun owners.


  56. Lily
    57 | December 19, 2012 2:30 pm

    @ linoleumknife:

    True about the only good thing a student I.D. card is good for is to I.D. you…certainly not prevent a crime.


  57. Speranza
    58 | December 19, 2012 2:32 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    texasam7 wrote:
    So did we all wake up in 1938, or what!?

    It does have a whiff of 1938 to it.

    More so than I would like to admit. Different names, places and people…but still danger in the air and too many wanting Israel gone.

    Yes the vast majority being on the Left.


  58. 59 | December 19, 2012 2:32 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Oh, and for what it is worth, I think the reord for a mass killing like this is held by the guy that set that fire in New York City several years ago. IIRC something like 100 people died there. I don’t remember all of the details. Guy burned down a night club, from what I recall.


  59. Lily
    60 | December 19, 2012 2:33 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    I did this post at DOD.
    The issue is not guns, It’s mental illness. How many times have there been signs these mass shooters were crazy. Yet there is no mechanism to deal with these people. That is the problem. The lack of a mechanism to deal with mentally unstable people.

    Which what I mentioned upthread. It is very hard to get help for someone mentally ill especially if they do not think of themselves as mentally ill.


  60. unclassifiable
    61 | December 19, 2012 2:33 pm

    @ Rodan:

    This is like nothing before.

    There is a ton of information supporting a lot of the positions that are proffered here. Positions are expressed and validated with tons of links.

    But a vast majority of people do not want to be bothered.

    The amount of willful ignorance is astounding. It is insane that this is the beginning of the information age and with the Internet and social media the biggest amount of traffic and exchange trades in lies, innuendo, legend, and ad hominem attacks.

    I can’t even say if this should be a death rattle for this version of civilization. Before this, by geography, insufficient technology, lack of freedom, or the normal every day threats of war, famine, and pestilence, most folks were ignorant.

    But now with literally the keys of the kingdom in their hands they have frivolously pissed it away for style over substance.

    If I wasn’t in the experiment, I would find it morbidly fascinating.


  61. Speranza
    62 | December 19, 2012 2:34 pm

    linoleumknife wrote:

    @ Mike C.:
    The left will hiss at this, but it sends a thrill up my leg when Americans buy record numbers of guns. Not only is it good for the economy and a way to supress crime, but it just might make the feds nervous. I like it when the citizens of this country make the feds nervous…

    They have always had a hard on about citizens owning weapons for self defense purposes. God forbid they shoot some “minority yute” trying to mug or rape them.


  62. 63 | December 19, 2012 2:34 pm

    @ RIX:

    Pretty good. Family is great and I have a decent job. Can’t complain. :-)


  63. unclassifiable
    64 | December 19, 2012 2:35 pm

    @ Rodan:

    It’s amazing that the Progressive Left is downplaying the mental illness part.

    Guess it is a little “too close to home” for them.


  64. 65 | December 19, 2012 2:35 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Here is to the FOX News story.

    The incident in Newton was due to 2 things. The mother did not secure her weapons. If she knows her son was mentally unstable, why did she not secure teh weapons? She was trying to get her son committed, but it’s a legal hassle to do it. If it was quick process, this would not have happened.

    Let’s say high caliber guns were banned, I bet you this nut would have strapped bombs on himself and do a suicide bombing. He would have found a way to kill these kids. He was the problem, not guns.


  65. Speranza
    66 | December 19, 2012 2:36 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    texasam7 wrote:
    So did we all wake up in 1938, or what!?
    It does have a whiff of 1938 to it.

    Na, this is more like 638 when the Caliphate was rising.

    I see Israel being forced to play the role of Czechoslovakia and Obama playing the role of Neville Chamberlain. The Muslim Brotherhood playing the role of the Nazi Party and Iran playing the role of Germany.


  66. Lily
    67 | December 19, 2012 2:36 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Wow… Tough crowd today, can’t even get a chuckle of of you…

    I think I got interrupted in between posts. LOL! That was a cute articile you wrote….funny too!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
    /plus you gotta remember I’m medicated too. So somewhere I’m going …take a little nappy yet? Or wait a minute or two…Nappy time is coming up very soon.


  67. 68 | December 19, 2012 2:37 pm

    @ Speranza:

    I’m a fervent believer that people should arm themselves. It is always better to read about some loser meeting his end, than to read about some poor soul being raped or beaten.


  68. Speranza
    69 | December 19, 2012 2:37 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Bohener, just said that they are going to send the House plan to avoid
    the fiscal cliff to the Senate. “If the President doesn’t line up Democrat
    votes , then the tax increase is on him.”

    Where did he find his missing spine?


  69. Speranza
    70 | December 19, 2012 2:38 pm

    linoleumknife wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I’m a fervent believer that people should arm themselves. It is always better to read about some loser meeting his end, than to read about some poor soul being raped or beaten.

    I think that homeowners who are of sound mind should keep a pistol near by to prevent home invasions.


  70. Speranza
    71 | December 19, 2012 2:39 pm

    Speaking of which -- notice how the Zimmerman case is disappearing from the news?


  71. unclassifiable
    72 | December 19, 2012 2:39 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I heard from someone (maybe you) that they are going to adopt the same strategy as with smoking.

    Look for a vast expansion of “gun free zones”.


  72. 73 | December 19, 2012 2:40 pm

    @ Rodan:

    He could have killed all thes kids with an axe. There was no one at this school capable of stopping him. He was clearly a threat tohimself or others. But it was OK for him to be on the street. I think the Left want things like this to happen, so they will have an excuse for their political agenda. Their agenda is disarming the law-abiding. They could care less about stopping crime.


  73. unclassifiable
    74 | December 19, 2012 2:40 pm

    @ Speranza:

    It’s heretical. It is not a story that embues liberals with godliness. It will be supressed.


  74. RIX
    75 | December 19, 2012 2:42 pm

    I heard a clip from the today show on the radio.
    A representative from Time Magazine explained
    Why they chose Obama as “Person of the Year.”
    It can be summed up,
    1. The first Dem President since FDR to be reelected
    with over 50% of the vote.
    2.He was able to get reelected with high unemployment.
    3. He was able to mobilize non political voters.
    So if you look at 1 & 2, he pulled a scam with low
    information voters.


  75. 76 | December 19, 2012 2:43 pm

    @ unclassifiable:

    I hold both parties responsible for our state of affairs. Democrats are masters of manipulations and Republicans are too self righteous to actually get dirty against the Dems.

    All I can say is prepare yourself and just stand by. The wheels of history are turning.


  76. 77 | December 19, 2012 2:43 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Let’s say high caliber guns were banned

    Oh, and that is another thing that pisses me off. They keep referring to the AR-15 as a “High Powered Weapon”. That is nonsense. An AR-15 is a low-powerwed rifle. It is too low powered to be used for deer hunting in most states. It is used for varmit hunting, self-defense, and target shooting. If they consider a 5.56 “high powered”, what are they going to think of a .300 Winchester Magnum? They let slip their real intent here. If they can get the so-called “Assault Rifles” they will be back for the much higher powered hunting rifles, probably calling them “Sniper” rifles. And they’ve always been after pistols of every stripe.


  77. Lily
    78 | December 19, 2012 2:44 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Here is to the FOX News story.
    The incident in Newton was due to 2 things. The mother did not secure her weapons. If she knows her son was mentally unstable, why did she not secure teh weapons? She was trying to get her son committed, but it’s a legal hassle to do it. If it was quick process, this would not have happened.
    Let’s say high caliber guns were banned, I bet you this nut would have strapped bombs on himself and do a suicide bombing. He would have found a way to kill these kids. He was the problem, not guns.

    Of course he was the problem..he could of had a bow and arrow. If he was that intent on doing harm he didn’t need a gun.


  78. RIX
    79 | December 19, 2012 2:45 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    Bohener, just said that they are going to send the House plan to avoid
    the fiscal cliff to the Senate. “If the President doesn’t line up Democrat
    votes , then the tax increase is on him.”

    Where did he find his missing spine?

    He now seems to have one. I hope that he sticks with it.


  79. 80 | December 19, 2012 2:45 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I think the Left want things like this to happen, so they will have an excuse for their political agenda.

    They love this shit. Charles over at LGF is literally having orgasms over this. Daily Kos and Think progress love this incident.

    I am becoming more convinced this was a false flag operation. From what I read, Adam Lanza’s hard drive was destroyed. What was he hiding? Normally these types leave clues. Yet Lanza is hiding something. Did someone manipulate him into doing this?


  80. Speranza
    81 | December 19, 2012 2:47 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    It’s heretical. It is not a story that embues liberals with godliness. It will be supressed.

    It is coming out that Zimmerman told the truth.


  81. RIX
    82 | December 19, 2012 2:47 pm

    @ Lily:Of course he was the problem..he could of had a bow and arrow. If he was that intent on doing harm he didn’t need a gun.

    Hi Lilly. He was something of an internet savant.
    He could easily have built a bomb, strapped in on
    & blown up the school.


  82. unclassifiable
    83 | December 19, 2012 2:48 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    The only thing I want them to think about my .30-06 is HOLY CR*P!


  83. citizen_q
    84 | December 19, 2012 2:48 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    He could have killed all thes kids with an axe. There was no one at this school capable of stopping him.

    If this bit of information has been discounted, please forgive me, for some reason the media that was so careful about reporting verified facts on Benghazi that the story essentially disappeared, while almost everything reported initially was wrong.

    I have heard this kid did not feel pain. An interesting fact if true and the staff at the school needed to fight hand to hand.


  84. Lily
    85 | December 19, 2012 2:49 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ Lily:Of course he was the problem..he could of had a bow and arrow. If he was that intent on doing harm he didn’t need a gun.
    Hi Lilly. He was something of an internet savant.
    He could easily have built a bomb, strapped in on
    & blown up the school.

    Hey Rix…yep or any number of other things. He was clearly dangerous but until he did something to consider him dangerous he was able to walk the streets freely.


  85. 86 | December 19, 2012 2:51 pm

    Lily wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    @ Lily:
    Wow… Tough crowd today, can’t even get a chuckle of of you…
    I think I got interrupted in between posts. LOL! That was a cute articile you wrote….funny too!!
    /plus you gotta remember I’m medicated too. So somewhere I’m going …take a little nappy yet? Or wait a minute or two…Nappy time is coming up very soon.

    That is my “Christmas Blog Post” I do hope you had as much fun reading it as I did writing it. If we lose our ability to laugh we will lose everything.


  86. RIX
    87 | December 19, 2012 2:51 pm

    @ Lily:
    How are you feeling?


  87. unclassifiable
    88 | December 19, 2012 2:51 pm

    @ Speranza:

    You know that. I know that. But in the kangaroo court of so-called “public opinion” (judge, jury, and jailer provided by the Treasonous Fifth Column Media [tm owned by Dorian]) he has already been drawn and quartered.


  88. citizen_q
    89 | December 19, 2012 2:53 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    unclassifiable wrote:
    @ Speranza:
    It’s heretical. It is not a story that embues liberals with godliness. It will be supressed.

    It is coming out that Zimmerman told the truth.

    I hope Zimmerman becomes richer than soros suing the heck out of everyone involved in his lynching from msnbc to sharpton.


  89. Lily
    90 | December 19, 2012 2:53 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    I loved reading it. Yep we need our sense of humor … thanks for the early Christmas gift! :)


  90. Lily
    91 | December 19, 2012 2:55 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ Lily:
    How are you feeling?

    Tired and very sore. But other than that not bad considering what they did to me. ;)
    /go for check-up tomorrow.


  91. RIX
    92 | December 19, 2012 3:06 pm

    Lily wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    @ Lily:
    How are you feeling?

    Tired and very sore. But other than that not bad considering what they did to me.
    /go for check-up tomorrow.

    Considering what you went through, you sound really good.
    Hang in there, you will get your strength back.


  92. 93 | December 19, 2012 3:13 pm

    Joe Manchin has been hearing from constituents. I think after the horror has died down a little bit, people are going to be pissed that the Democrats tried to use this tragedy for political gain. The voters don’t like gun control. That is why Obama has been avoiding it so far. This tragedy isn’t going to change many people’s minds. People are already buying guns as fast as they can make them. They aren’t buying them with the intent of turning them in Because Dear Leader says so.


  93. eaglesoars
    94 | December 19, 2012 3:23 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    People are already buying guns as fast as they can make them

    Yeppers. A friend just sent me this link

    CZ-75 P07 Duty 9mm

    thinking about it……..


  94. 95 | December 19, 2012 3:23 pm

    Just a drive-by OT: Colorized Civil War Photographs. I’m generally not a particular fan of colorization, but these people seem to wonderfully spring to life.

    Thanks. As you were. ;)


  95. 96 | December 19, 2012 3:23 pm

    New Thread.


  96. 97 | December 19, 2012 3:24 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    Pretty cool!


  97. RIX
    98 | December 19, 2012 3:24 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    What is different here is that the victims were the personification
    of innocence. six year olds.
    That also makes it more heinous for the Democrats to exploit this.
    The children are still being buried.


  98. 99 | December 19, 2012 3:25 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Notice it’s Conservative Dems that are coming out for Gun Control? This is done on purpose. That way it will be “reasonable” Democrats who lead the charge.


  99. 100 | December 19, 2012 3:25 pm

    @ Lily:

    Yup.


  100. eaglesoars
    101 | December 19, 2012 3:26 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Just a drive-by OT: Colorized Civil War Photographs. I’m generally not a particular fan of colorization, but these people seem to wonderfully spring to life.

    Thanks. As you were.

    Oh Hubby will LOVE those! Thanks!


  101. 102 | December 19, 2012 3:30 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    I’m a .45 kind of guy, but if I were going to go wiht a 9mm I’d either go with a Glock or a Beretta. The Beretta is better ergonomically if you can get over the safety, but there is a reason that the Glock has become the de facto standard sidearm for police in this country. If I were to hve to use it in self-defense, it couldn’t hurt to be able to testify that you chose your weapon because it was the standard weapon that police choose


  102. eaglesoars
    103 | December 19, 2012 3:36 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I have problems w/the slide on the Glock. Hard pull for me.


  103. 104 | December 19, 2012 3:45 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    A Beretta should be good for you, then. Interestingly enough, the Old Lady thinks a 9mm recoil is a little stiff but a .357 Magnum is managable. GO figure. She’s finally interested in getting her concealed carry permit. I’ve only been at her to do it for six years :roll:


  104. eaglesoars
    105 | December 19, 2012 3:47 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    LOL!!


  105. 106 | December 19, 2012 3:49 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    What’s wrong with Beretta safety? Frankly, I wouldn’t carry a pistol with one in the pipe without a manual safety.


  106. 107 | December 19, 2012 3:55 pm

    @ Mike C.:

    It flips the wrong way. You have to flip it up, and then readjust your grip before firing. I prefer the 1911 safety where you take it off as a natural movement preparing to shoot. But I prefer the 1911 generally, even though it has more limited magazine capacity.


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