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The End of Christianity in the Middle East

by coldwarrior ( 140 Comments › )
Filed under Christianity, History, Islam, Judaism, Open thread, Religion at December 24th, 2012 - 8:30 am

As we in the West help the Caliphate grow, we destroy the very religion that so many of us hold dear. I guess terrorism works after all.

 

With no help from the so called ‘Christian’ West, the last brave Christians in the Middle East will fade into oblivion. Well, guess what? The muzz aint gonna stop with the Christians.

 

Christianity ‘close to extinction’ in Middle East

Christianity faces being wiped out of the “biblical heartlands” in the Middle East because of mounting persecution of worshippers, according to a new report.

The study warns that Christians suffer greater hostility across the world than any other religious group.

And it claims politicians have been “blind” to the extent of violence faced by Christians in Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

The most common threat to Christians abroad is militant Islam, it says, claiming that oppression in Muslim countries is often ignored because of a fear that criticism will be seen as “racism”.

It warns that converts from Islam face being killed in Saudi Arabia, Mauritania and Iran and risk severe legal penalties in other countries across the Middle East.

The report, by the think tank Civitas, says: “It is generally accepted that many faith-based groups face discrimination or persecution to some degree.

“A far less widely grasped fact is that Christians are targeted more than any other body of believers.”

It cites estimates that 200 million Christians, or 10 per cent of Christians worldwide, are “socially disadvantaged, harassed or actively oppressed for their beliefs.”

“Exposing and combating the problem ought in my view to be political priorities across large areas of the world. That this is not the case tells us much about a questionable hierarchy of victimhood,” says the author, Rupert Shortt, a journalist and visiting fellow of Blackfriars Hall, Oxford.

He adds: “The blind spot displayed by governments and other influential players is causing them to squander a broader opportunity. Religious freedom is the canary in the mine for human rights generally.”

The report, entitled Christianophobia, highlights a fear among oppressive regimes that Christianity is a “Western creed” which can be used to undermine them.

State hostility towards Christianity is particularly rife in China, where more Christians are imprisoned than in any other country in the world, according to the report.

It quotes Ma Hucheng, an advisor to the Chinese government, who claimed in an article last year that the US has backed the growth of the Protestant Church in China as a vehicle for political dissidence.

“Western powers, with America at their head, deliberately export Christianity to China and carry out all kinds of illegal evangelistic activities,” he wrote in the China Social Sciences Press.

“Their basic aim is to use Christianity to change the character of the regime…in China and overturn it,” he added.

The “lion’s share” of persecution faced by Christians arises in countries where Islam is the dominant faith, the report says, quoting estimates that between a half and two-thirds of Christians in the Middle East have left the region or been killed in the past century.

“There is now a serious risk that Christianity will disappear from its biblical heartlands,” it claims.

The report shows that “Muslim-majority” states make up 12 of the 20 countries judged to be “unfree” on the grounds of religious tolerance by Freedom House, the human rights think tank.

It catalogues hundreds of attacks on Christians by religious fanatics over recent years, focusing on seven countries: Egypt, Iraq, Pakistan, Nigeria, India, Burma and China.

It claims George Bush’s use of the word “crusade” after the September 11 attacks on New York created the impression for Muslims in the Middle East of a “Christian assault on the Muslim world”.

“But however the motivation for violence is measured, the early twenty-first century has seen a steady rise in the strife endured by Christians,” the report says.

The 2003 invasion of Iraq left Iraqi Christians “more vulnerable than ever”, highlighted by the 2006 beheading of a kidnapped Orthodox priest, Fr Boulos Iskander, and the kidnapping of 17 further priests and two bishops between 2006 and 2010.

“In most cases, those responsible declared that they wanted all Christians to be expelled from the country,” the report says.

In Pakistan, the murder last year of Shahbaz Bhatti, the country’s Catholic minister for minorities, “vividly reflected” religious intolerance in Pakistan.

Shortly after his death it emerged that Mr Bhatti had recorded a video in which he declared: “I am living for my community and for suffering people and I will die to defend their rights.

“I prefer to die for my principles and for the justice of my community rather than to compromise. I want to share that I believe in Jesus Christ, who has given his own life for us.”

The report also warns that Christians in India have faced years of violence from Hindu extremists. In 2010 scores of attacks on Christians and church property were carried out in Karnataka, a state in south west India.

And while many people are aware of the oppression faced in Burma by Aung San Suu Kyi and other pro-democracy activists, targeted abuse of Christians in the country has been given little exposure, the report says.

In some areas of Burma the government has clamped down on Christian protesters by restricting the building of new churches.

“Openly professing Christians employed in government service find it virtually impossible to get promotion,” it adds.

 

 

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140 Responses to “The End of Christianity in the Middle East”
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  1. MikeA
    1 | December 24, 2012 8:36 am

    But, but, but… CAIR keeps telling me that islam is a religion of peace? They can’t be lying to me, can they?


  2. Bumr50
    2 | December 24, 2012 8:45 am

    R.I.P. Ministry Guitarist Mike Scaccia


  3. Bumr50
    3 | December 24, 2012 8:53 am

    He adds: “The blind spot displayed by governments and other influential players is causing them to squander a broader opportunity. Religious freedom is the canary in the mine for human rights generally.”

    Civitas guy makes the mistake here of believing that politicians and organizations that CLAIM to support “global human rights” ACTUALLY support global human rights, and have the best interests of individual humans at the front of their mind when they govern.


  4. texasam7
    4 | December 24, 2012 8:55 am

    Sounds like 1291 all over again.


  5. eaglesoars
    5 | December 24, 2012 8:57 am

    It claims George Bush’s use of the word “crusade” after the September 11 attacks on New York created the impression for Muslims in the Middle East of a “Christian assault on the Muslim world”.

    I call BULLSHIT. That was an excuse for gullible western media to blame Bush for crap they already intended.

    This is a drive-by. Good morning, have a great day.


  6. 6 | December 24, 2012 9:09 am

    eaglesoars wrote:

    It claims George Bush’s use of the word “crusade” after the September 11 attacks on New York created the impression for Muslims in the Middle East of a “Christian assault on the Muslim world”.

    It should have baan an all-out assault on th eMuslim World. Islam should have become a religion practiced only in Hell. Islam Delenda Est.


  7. 7 | December 24, 2012 9:12 am

    No one cares about Mideast Christians.


  8. citizen_q
    8 | December 24, 2012 9:13 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    Sooner or later it will be them or us.

    I vote sooner and us.


  9. rain of lead
    9 | December 24, 2012 9:14 am

    *blink**blink*

    France monitoring traditionalist Catholics for ‘religious pathology’

    A French cabinet member announced that the government will monitor certain groups for “religious pathology,” including a traditionalist Catholic organization, and will shut them down if it is discovered.

    “The objective is to identify when it’s suitable to intervene to treat what has become a religious pathology,” Interior Minister Manuel Valls told a conference on the official policy of secularism, according to Reuters.

    “The aim is not to combat opinions by force, but to detect and understand when an opinion turns into a potentially violent and criminal excess,” he said at the Dec. 11 conference.

    Okaaay


  10. 10 | December 24, 2012 9:14 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    It should have baan an all-out assault on th eMuslim World. Islam should have become a religion practiced only in Hell. Islam Delenda Est.

    Amen to that! We should have attacked them without mercy and treated Islam as the disease it is.


  11. 11 | December 24, 2012 9:16 am

    Sometime in the future, when this nation (if it survives) has a nationalist government, the leaders of the Democrat and Republican Parties should be out on trial for treason. They have collaborated with foreign interests and deserve the fate of traitors.


  12. rain of lead
    12 | December 24, 2012 9:17 am

    and more good news

    Israel reportedly fears Hamas making move for control of West Bank

    enior officials in Jerusalem reportedly believe a Gaza-style takeover of the West Bank by Hamas may be in the offing, citing intelligence estimates that show the Iran-backed terror group making a move for control of the Palestinian-ruled territory.

    Military Intelligence and the Shin Bet security service both have information that Hamas political chief Khaled Mashaal has ordered his supporters to prepare for a battle for control of the West Bank, the Sunday Times reported on Sunday.

    The move is feared by both Israel and the Palestinian Authority’s ruling Fatah party, which has seen its popularity on the Arab street wane in the face of the more hard-line Hamas movement.

    “We’re on the verge of catastrophe,” Tawfik Tirawi, a senior Fatah member, told the paper. ”Hamas wants intifada and now only a spark is needed to light the inferno. Hamas will take over the West Bank.”


  13. 13 | December 24, 2012 9:18 am

    @ rain of lead:

    Hamas will make their move for the West bank after they take Jordan.


  14. 14 | December 24, 2012 9:20 am

    The fact that Western Christians turned their backs on their Lebanese brothers when they were fighting the Muzz is a disgrace.


  15. Bumr50
    15 | December 24, 2012 9:21 am

    Rodan wrote:

    nationalist government

    Anything is better than the “anti-nationalist” government that we have.

    It sort of goes with my comment on the Civitas’ guy’s quote above.

    The great con right now is that the US government actually has the best interests of the US at heart.


  16. 16 | December 24, 2012 9:21 am

    citizen_q wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Sooner or later it will be them or us.
    I vote sooner and us.

    We have to deal with the traitors in our mists. The Democrat Party and the national (not local) Republican Party are both agents of Islamic interests.


  17. 17 | December 24, 2012 9:22 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ rain of lead:

    Hamas will make their move for the West bank after they take Jordan.

    Say Goodbye to the Star Trek King!


  18. 18 | December 24, 2012 9:23 am

    @ Bumr50:

    The great con right now is that the US government actually has the best interests of the US at heart.

    Both Parties are full of traitors and foreign agents. All both parties want to do is go to war for the Muslim Brotherhood. In the last election, both Romney and Obama supported the military action for Islamists in Syria.


  19. 19 | December 24, 2012 9:24 am

    Fox News is in total Pro-Jihad propaganda mode in Syria. They keep airing about some attack on a bakery. Like I really care.


  20. citizen_q
    20 | December 24, 2012 9:38 am

    Rodan wrote:

    citizen_q wrote:
    @ Iron Fist:
    Sooner or later it will be them or us.
    I vote sooner and us.

    We have to deal with the traitors in our mists. The Democrat Party and the national (not local) Republican Party are both agents of Islamic interests.

    I think that is in essence is the answer to your #14 post.

    That and we have culturally been duped to not recognize an enemy, IMHO.


  21. Speranza
    21 | December 24, 2012 9:41 am

    The Daily Telegraph which used to be pro Israel under Conrad Black had an article about Christians in Bethlehem pretty much blaming Israel for their declining numbers. The author actually used the term “apartheid wall”.


  22. Bumr50
    22 | December 24, 2012 9:41 am

    citizen_q wrote:

    That and we have culturally been duped to not recognize an enemy, IMHO.

    Academia irrationally preaches “tolerance” of a disease that’s killing us.

    Do people “tolerate” a disease?

    It’s a living being as well.

    Virus and bacteria rights!!


  23. Speranza
    23 | December 24, 2012 9:42 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Fox News is in total Pro-Jihad propaganda mode in Syria. They keep airing about some attack on a bakery. Like I really care.

    Like you, I rarely watch Fox News much these days. Bringing Rove back was the deal breaker for me.


  24. 24 | December 24, 2012 9:44 am

    @ Speranza:

    Blame anyone but Muslims.


  25. 25 | December 24, 2012 9:45 am

    @ Speranza:

    I have been leery of Fox since their support for the Libyan War. They are Jihadi apologists.


  26. Speranza
    26 | December 24, 2012 9:46 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Blame anyone but Muslims.

    Of course. Israel is the only Middle East nation in which the Christian numbers are growing not decreasing, but don’t confuse them with the facts -- their minds re already made up.


  27. 27 | December 24, 2012 9:46 am

    @ citizen_q:

    I think it’s worse. I believe the Democrat and national (not local) Republican parties have been bought and paid for by Islamic money.


  28. Speranza
    28 | December 24, 2012 9:47 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I have been leery of Fox since their support for the Libyan War. They are Jihadi apologists.

    Every night they have the same boring commentators on -- Rove, Palin, Bolton, Trump, McCain, Miss Lindsey, Dick Morris (actually not any more), on and on and on.


  29. 29 | December 24, 2012 9:48 am

    @ Speranza:

    Israel was the only power to try to help Lebanese Christians back in the 80′s. It was the US/West that backstabbed the Christians.


  30. Speranza
    30 | December 24, 2012 9:48 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Israel was the only power to try to help Lebanese Christians back in the 80′s. It was the US/West that backstabbed the Christians.

    Christians are only no more then 30% of Lebanon now.


  31. 31 | December 24, 2012 9:48 am

    @ Speranza:

    The same gang of losers. These clowns called the election wrong and fed bs to the viewers. They should be fired.


  32. 32 | December 24, 2012 9:51 am

    @ Speranza:

    The Lebanese Maronite are now supporting al-Qaeda and the Muslim Btrotherhood. After Syria, Lebanon will be a battleground. AL-Qaeda is planning to go after Hizballah.


  33. Bumr50
    33 | December 24, 2012 9:51 am

    @ Speranza:

    I rarely watch Fox News, and agree with most of your assessment.

    Not sure how you lump Palin in with that crowd, though.

    The only time that I ever hear from her is through well written Facebook postings that I agree with almost wholeheartedly.

    Is she saying things on Fox that don’t jive?

    Don’t get me wrong -- I wouldn’t support her for any higher office, but it doesn’t seem that she’s even seeking that.


  34. RIX
    34 | December 24, 2012 9:54 am

    Good morning. There are articles in the newspaper about the
    ‘Syrian “Freedom” fighters instituting Sharia Law in areas that they
    control.
    This “Arab Spring” thing isn’t going well.
    I am afraid that soon with the exception of Israel
    the Middle East will be a no go zone for Westerners.
    But we will still send cash.


  35. 35 | December 24, 2012 9:56 am

    Newt gets it, but the GOP Establishment and the Purist Inquisition will ignore it.

    Gingrich: GOP in Danger of Becoming Permanent Minority


  36. 36 | December 24, 2012 9:57 am

    @ RIX:

    Yup, Both parties want this.


  37. citizen_q
    37 | December 24, 2012 10:00 am

    @ Bumr50:
    Sorry no time to properly back-cite Rodan and Speranza, but I rarely watch Fox news either.

    In addition to the opinions already mentioned, their attempts at balance fall short forcing one to listen to the unhinged musings of juan william or bob beckel and others.

    I also do not like their penchant of accepting and taking up the general media’s talking points thus allowing the general and very biased media to define the conversation.

    OTOH, Fox was the only one giving any coverage at all to Fast and Furious and Benghazi.


  38. RIX
    38 | December 24, 2012 10:01 am

    @ Rodan:
    The part that I find amazing is that the news section of the paper
    reports the spread of Sharia by the rebels.
    Then on the op/ed pages , they support the rebels.
    It’s like they don’t read their own paper.


  39. Bumr50
    39 | December 24, 2012 10:01 am

    @ Rodan:

    Getting rid of John Boehner as Speaker should be step 1.

    I don’t particularly care for this Kevin McCarthy guy, but maybe he’s what we need. (I don’t think that you get to be “cool” by saying “We need to be cooler,” but that’s just me.)

    Romney got THUMPED by the woman vote.


  40. Bumr50
    40 | December 24, 2012 10:02 am

    citizen_q wrote:

    OTOH, Fox was the only one giving any coverage at all to Fast and Furious and Benghazi.

    Fox serves a role, but would actually be AIDED by some competition, IMHO.


  41. RIX
    41 | December 24, 2012 10:11 am

    @ citizen_q:
    It seems clear to me that pressure from FNC , paricularly
    O’Riley got the Marine out of the Mexican prison.
    Obama just ignored the situation.


  42. 42 | December 24, 2012 10:11 am

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ Rodan:

    Getting rid of John Boehner as Speaker should be step 1.

    I don’t particularly care for this Kevin McCarthy guy, but maybe he’s what we need. (I don’t think that you get to be “cool” by saying “We need to be cooler,” but that’s just me.)

    Romney got THUMPED by the woman vote.

    I think we DO need to be more participatory in the culture-at-large, but it can’t be contrived, it has to be more natural. Otherwise, it’d be like, in ’72, dressing Nixon up in bellbottoms, sandals and a tie-dyed T-shirt in an effort to “relate to young people”.


  43. citizen_q
    43 | December 24, 2012 10:19 am

    @ RIX:
    That is good.

    I was not following that story. I had thought that I read something somewhere saying the he was going to be released and the comrade zero nor the State Department were of any help.


  44. RIX
    44 | December 24, 2012 10:25 am

    @ citizen_q:
    Jay Carney said at a press briefing that he was not familiar
    with the situation.
    That of course is crap, but it told me that they were doing nothing.


  45. Bumr50
    45 | December 24, 2012 10:27 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Exactly.

    The folks in the pro-McCarthy piece state that they want a “rock star” like Obama.

    a) The concept of Obama took years to build. We don’t have years.

    b) Do we really want to contrive an individual for popularity’s sake?

    However, I’ll also remark that most of the country listens to music on reality television, so maybe I’m wrong.

    The GOP is pretty much dead. Whatever incarnation that the “right” evolves into, it had better be prepared to not only play the game, but be able to win it.

    We can’t simply “not play,” which I see a number of people advocating (not here for the most part.)


  46. citizen_q
    46 | December 24, 2012 10:28 am

    RIX wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    The part that I find amazing is that the news section of the paper
    reports the spread of Sharia by the rebels.
    Then on the op/ed pages , they support the rebels.
    It’s like they don’t read their own paper.

    They probably believe the fairy tales spewed by cair and other islam apologists, and think sharia is all rainbows, butterfly’s and frolicking unicorns. If there are problems its because islam has not been implemented correctly, very much like their excuses for communism.


  47. citizen_q
    47 | December 24, 2012 10:29 am

    @ RIX:
    Such a blatant liar. I bet carney’s parents are proud.


  48. Bumr50
    48 | December 24, 2012 10:38 am

    @ citizen_q:

    Wife Claire sure is.


  49. 49 | December 24, 2012 10:39 am

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    Getting rid of John Boehner as Speaker should be step 1.
    I don’t particularly care for this Kevin McCarthy guy, but maybe he’s what we need. (I don’t think that you get to be “cool” by saying “We need to be cooler,” but that’s just me.)
    Romney got THUMPED by the woman vote.

    Yup.


  50. 50 | December 24, 2012 10:40 am

    @ MacDuff:

    There are plenty of Conservatives/Libertarians who can relate to the popular culture. It’s just the feckless establishment and the purists don’t give them time of day.


  51. Speranza
    51 | December 24, 2012 10:51 am

    Bumr50 wrote:

    It is not that I disagree with (Palin) her it is that she offers no new insight.


  52. citizen_q
    52 | December 24, 2012 10:52 am

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ citizen_q:
    Wife Claire sure is.

    He’s married? Well, I must be getting old. He barley looks old enough to shave.

    Good for her, me, I could never trust someone with such a flawed character much less waste any time with.


  53. Bumr50
    53 | December 24, 2012 10:55 am

    @ Speranza:

    Agreed.

    ———————

    WASHINGTON – A U.S. Army brigade will begin sending small teams into as many as 35 African nations early next year, part of an intensifying Pentagon effort to train countries to battle extremists and give the U.S. a ready and trained force to dispatch to Africa if crises requiring the U.S. military emerge.

    The teams will be limited to training and equipping efforts, and will not be permitted to conduct military operations without specific, additional approvals from the secretary of defense.

    The sharper focus on Africa by the U.S. comes against a backdrop of widespread insurgent violence across North Africa, and as the African Union and other nations discuss military intervention in northern Mali.

    It would be nice if we would stop playing WorldCops, at least until we get our own house in order.

    ht- Fox


  54. Bumr50
    54 | December 24, 2012 10:55 am

    @ citizen_q:

    Claire Shipman, ABC News.

    Go figure.


  55. 55 | December 24, 2012 11:11 am

    @ Bumr50:

    You will now be labeled an isolationist! How dare you put America’a interests ahead of the world’s!
    //////

    Look at this!

    Cory Booker supports Gun Rights


  56. 56 | December 24, 2012 11:16 am

    @ Rodan:

    As long as they insist on marginalizing their base they will be the minority party. The last election was all about motivating your base. Obama understood this and won. Romney chose to ignore and at times run from his base and lost. He won the3 independents but, as I have been saying, you can’t lose your base and pull enough from the squishy middle to win. Romney’s loss is proof of this.


  57. Bumr50
    57 | December 24, 2012 11:18 am

    @ Rodan:

    I’m sure Booker will be “corrected” once again.

    Maybe he’ll eventually grow so weary of being chastised every time he thinks for himself that he’ll become more of an ally to conservatives than those grooming him ever dreamed.

    I’ve seen a pig or two fly.


  58. Speranza
    58 | December 24, 2012 11:18 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    As long as they insist on marginalizing their base they will be the minority party. The last election was all about motivating your base. Obama understood this and won. Romney chose to ignore and at times run from his base and lost. He won the3 independents but, as I have been saying, you can’t lose your base and pull enough from the squishy middle to win. Romney’s loss is proof of this.

    The “base” is not nearly as big as you think it is.


  59. 59 | December 24, 2012 11:20 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Bumr50:

    You will now be labeled an isolationist! How dare you put America’a interests ahead of the world’s!
    //////

    Look at this!

    Cory Booker supports Gun Rights

    Were I a young man embarking on a political career, I’d position myself as a center-right/conservative/libertarian hybrid Democrat.


  60. 60 | December 24, 2012 11:20 am

    @ Speranza:

    It is big enough to make the difference. Romney won the independents. However, a portion of the base didn’t turn out for him. I disagree with them, but some acts from Romney to reassure the base might have made the difference in the election.


  61. Bumr50
    61 | December 24, 2012 11:20 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Much has been made of Romney’s son’s remarks that Romney really didn’t want to be President.

    There’s a case to be made that anyone that actually DOES want to be POTUS probably shouldn’t be one.

    That said, Romney’s lack of personal motivation probably allowed his campaign to be steered that much more by the same, tired, clueless bunch of “strategists” that sunk McCain.


  62. Speranza
    62 | December 24, 2012 11:21 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    I think we DO need to be more participatory in the culture-at-large, but it can’t be contrived, it has to be more natural.

    I agree. We cannot act like aliens or that we never go to the movies or watch television.


  63. Speranza
    63 | December 24, 2012 11:22 am

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Much has been made of Romney’s son’s remarks that Romney really didn’t want to be President.
    There’s a case to be made that anyone that actually DOES want to be POTUS probably shouldn’t be one.
    That said, Romney’s lack of personal motivation probably allowed his campaign to be steered that much more by the same, tired, clueless bunch of “strategists” that sunk McCain.

    The same morons who advised W., Dole, and McCain. All should be summarily fired.


  64. 64 | December 24, 2012 11:23 am

    The only “base” left in this country of any signifigance is the FSA…


  65. Speranza
    65 | December 24, 2012 11:25 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    It is big enough to make the difference. Romney won the independents. However, a portion of the base didn’t turn out for him. I disagree with them, but some acts from Romney to reassure the base might have made the difference in the election.

    Sorry but it isn’t that large a base and it is certainly not expanding either. The truth is the truth. Anyone who sat it out after four years of Obama is brain dead. We have if anything a shrinking base as we repel too many prospective voters with our “culture war” crap. We have morons running for Senate who cannot properly answer a question about rape and abortion -- in fact we had two putzes who freaked up that simple question up. How many people even on this blog brag about not having a TV set?


  66. 66 | December 24, 2012 11:26 am

    @ Speranza:

    If the Republican “base” couldn’t be motivated to get off their asses to keep Obama out of the White House in ’08, then, after four years, to extricate Obama in ’12, my question is “WTF good are they?”


  67. Speranza
    67 | December 24, 2012 11:27 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    If the Republican “base” couldn’t be motivated to get off their asses to keep Obama out of the White House in ’08, then, after four years, to extricate Obama in ’12, my question is “WTF good are they?”

    We park our cars in the same garage my friend.


  68. 68 | December 24, 2012 11:31 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Getting out your base is not enough. The Democrats do not have a big base. They have a coalition united in their fears of Republicans.

    That said, why would the base be against expanding the Republican Party?


  69. 69 | December 24, 2012 11:32 am

    @ MacDuff:
    @ Speranza:

    Why would the Republican base be against expanding the appeal of the GOP? Is the Republican party an exclusive club now?


  70. RIX
    70 | December 24, 2012 11:32 am

    citizen_q wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Such a blatant liar. I bet carney’s parents are proud.

    Probably


  71. 71 | December 24, 2012 11:33 am

    @ Speranza:

    If you are right, then we are a permanent minority party. We are never goin gto be qable to compete with the Democrats in th e”Free Shit” department, and that was what the low info voters went for. Promise them goodies, and they will vote for you no matter what the reality isw. I’ve read article after article about how fucked this younger generation is because of Obama’s policies and the dead economy. Yet these same people turned out in droveds to vote Obama back in because he’s “cool”. The Republicans will never wint these moron’s votes until they grow up. When they grow up and stop being low-infromation voters (those that do grow up and stop being low information voters), then we can reason with them and many of them will become Republicans.


  72. Speranza
    72 | December 24, 2012 11:33 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    @ Speranza:
    Why would the Republican base be against expanding the appeal of the GOP? Is the Republican party an exclusive club now?

    It is being run that way.
    By the way I am a conservative Republican and I like Rock music particularly the Rolling Stones. I also liked Beavis and Butthead.


  73. 73 | December 24, 2012 11:35 am

    @Rodan: Check your cellphone email dude… :razz: :grin:


  74. 74 | December 24, 2012 11:36 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    The Republicans will never wint these moron’s votes until they grow up. When they grow up and stop being low-infromation voters (those that do grow up and stop being low information voters), then we can reason with them and many of them will become Republicans.

    That is why they don’t vote Republican. They do not feel welcomed and are dismissed. Even when they get older, they will never vote Republican. People do not go where they are not wanted. If the GOP does nothing about winning new voters, eventually another Center-Right Party will emerge. Many Republicans will be tired of losing.

    We should be trying to win as many people possible.


  75. 75 | December 24, 2012 11:36 am

    Rodan wrote:

    The Democrats do not have a big base.

    YOu are wrong here. THey have a very big base. They have the people on welfare, foodstamps, and government workers. That is the Democrat base, and you add in low information voters that get their news form Stephen COlbert and the like. Sure we have to grow our base, but we have to get what we have all on one page and running a Massachutte3s MOderate was never a way to get all of the Republican base out. I bitched about that the entire time Romney ran. I expected the base to come out more than it did out of loathing of Obama, but that didn[‘t materialize. Too many people out there that couldn’t pull the lever for someone who had taken the positions that Romney had taken, especially on ObabaCare/RomneyCare, abortion, and gun control.


  76. 76 | December 24, 2012 11:38 am

    doriangrey wrote:

    @Rodan: Check your cellphone email dude…

    Wow, Christmas to a hard rock riff, nice!


  77. Speranza
    77 | December 24, 2012 11:39 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    I am not saying get into the free shit department but we need to change our terminology to appeal to the low information voter. Instead of “small government” make it “efficient government”. Instead of
    entitlement reform” call it “Strengthening and preserving the social safety net”. Why let the other side define you? And for the love of God do not try to save the taxes on millionaires the vast majority of whom are liberal Democrats, become more the party of Main Street instead of Wall Street -- in essence be what the Democrats were in the 1950′s the party of working Americans. We also have got to find a way to not come across as the “religious party” but be a party where people of faith and even people who are completely secular and of no faith are welcome.


  78. 78 | December 24, 2012 11:40 am

    Speranza wrote:

    I like Rock music particularly the Rolling Stones. I also liked Beavis and Butthead.

    WHat exactly does that have to do with anything? I listen to speed metal. I have Pantera on right now. What difference do you think that makes? You aren’t going to win th elow information voters by liking the same muusic that they do. If you’ll remember, it was Tipper Gore and the PMRC that was so anti-=music. Last time I checked Tipper Gore was a big time Democrat. She certainly was on e at that time. Didn’t seem to sway the low information voters against the Democrat PArty. Kinda like how the Party of Slavery and Segregation has a lock on the black vote. Thesee people aren’t making decisions based on rational thought. They are making emotional decisions, and the Democrats have the better emotional appeal. That they are lying doesn’t seem to make a damn bit of difference to these demographics.


  79. Speranza
    79 | December 24, 2012 11:41 am

    The base and the Republican Party was highly motivated in 2012 -- the problem was that there was just not enough of them.


  80. Bumr50
    80 | December 24, 2012 11:42 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    The Republicans will never wint these moron’s votes until they grow up. When they grow up and stop being low-infromation voters (those that do grow up and stop being low information voters), then we can reason with them and many of them will become Republicans.

    Not sure that’s going to happen on it’s own.

    In Obama’s America, it’s not only possible but preferred to live in a state of constant adolescence. It’s rewarded and reinforced.

    Mind you, I HATE having to take the “adult” position all the time. I’m a natural smart-aleck that looks younger than his years, a recovering scofflaw, an occasional marijuana user, and a former (briefly) Democrat.

    I’m not fishing for sympathy or reaction, just expressing my own personal frustration at the State of the Union.

    Only by the grace of God, family values, talk radio, and new media am I a conservative.


  81. Speranza
    81 | December 24, 2012 11:42 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    WHat exactly does that have to do with anything? I listen to speed metal. I have Pantera on right now. What difference do you think that makes? You aren’t going to win th elow information voters by liking the same muusic that they do. If you’ll remember, it was Tipper Gore and the PMRC that was so anti-=music. Last time I checked Tipper Gore was a big time Democrat. She certainly was on e at that time. Didn’t seem to sway the low information voters against the Democrat PArty. Kinda like how the Party of Slavery and Segregation has a lock on the black vote. Thesee people aren’t making decisions based on rational thought. They are making emotional decisions, and the Democrats have the better emotional appeal. That they are lying doesn’t seem to make a damn bit of difference to these demographics.

    M

  82. waldensianspirit
    82 | December 24, 2012 11:43 am

    Luke 18:8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?” — Jesus of Nazareth


  83. 83 | December 24, 2012 11:44 am

    @ Speranza:

    I’d say base it on belief in America as a constitutional federal republic, but I suppose that just shows what an out-of-touch old fart I am.


  84. lobo91
    84 | December 24, 2012 11:45 am

    Everything the Dems do is based on the support of low information voters.

    There’s a Democrat spokeshole on FNC right now spouting a bunch of completely inane crap about guns. The average person will think what he’s saying makes sense, though.


  85. waldensianspirit
    85 | December 24, 2012 11:46 am

    lobo91 wrote:

    Democrat spokeshole

    I’m going to borrow that!


  86. 86 | December 24, 2012 11:47 am

    @ Mike C.:
    That taes educating the voters. What we are fighting is a Leftist education establishment that teaches kids that that kind of attitude is racist, and that there is nothing worse than racism, if it is that type of racism. Jamie Foxx, OTOH< can get away with his racism. That racism is good. They are teaching double-think in our schools. Most of the teachers believe this onsense becvause it is what they were taught. If we are going to have a hope of rescuing the country we are going to have to take over the education establishment. Right now it is one big Leftist indocrination machine.


  87. 87 | December 24, 2012 11:47 am

    @ lobo91:

    See my #55. One Democrat broke with the anti-gun orthodoxy.


  88. lobo91
    88 | December 24, 2012 11:47 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I’d say base it on belief in America as a constitutional federal republic, but I suppose that just shows what an out-of-touch old fart I am.

    That really is the basis of the difference between the parties today.

    The problem is that a couple of generations of deliberately dumbed-down public education means that the majority of Americans don’t even know what a constitutional republic is.


  89. 89 | December 24, 2012 11:48 am

    Rodan wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    @Rodan: Check your cellphone email dude…

    Wow, Christmas to a hard rock riff, nice!

    That is my own little twisted way of wishing you and yours a Merry Christmas… :grin:


  90. lobo91
    90 | December 24, 2012 11:48 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    See my #55. One Democrat broke with the anti-gun orthodoxy.

    Only to an extent. Notice my comment on that thread.


  91. 91 | December 24, 2012 11:49 am

    Iron Fist broked the blog… :twisted:


  92. 92 | December 24, 2012 11:49 am

    @ doriangrey:

    That you so much!


  93. Bumr50
    93 | December 24, 2012 11:49 am

    @ Mike C.:

    The problem is that nobody knows what that entails, or even is.

    It’s a matter of selling it as preferable to a nanny state.

    The nanny staters get our kids from age 4 on.

    Bill Ayers, earlier this month.

    “If we want change to come, we would do well not to look at the sites of power we have no access to…” Ayers says. “We have absolute access to the community, the school, the neighborhood, the street, the classroom, the workplace, the farm, the shop.”

    ht- Breitbart


  94. Speranza
    94 | December 24, 2012 11:50 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I’d say base it on belief in America as a constitutional federal republic, but I suppose that just shows what an out-of-touch old fart I am.

    It’s like talking to people about “Dodd-Frank” they have no freaking idea who or what you are talking about. Keep it simple.


  95. Bumr50
    95 | December 24, 2012 11:50 am

    Why is everything so LOUD all of a sudden???


  96. RIX
    96 | December 24, 2012 11:50 am

    @ MacDuff:
    Think about what the Republicans are up against.
    Obama was first elected because of Bush fatigue & slogans.
    He inherits a fiscal problem & drives it to a crisis by raiding the treasury
    & wasting money with ridiculous “Green” companies.
    It is classic Sophistry, create the problem & claim that the other guy
    did it , and you have the solution.
    With a complicit MSM, it works.


  97. lobo91
    97 | December 24, 2012 11:50 am

    doriangrey wrote:

    Iron Fist broked the blog…

    I fixed it


  98. Speranza
    98 | December 24, 2012 11:51 am

    We better expand our base and start doing it now. Numbers are everything.


  99. Speranza
    99 | December 24, 2012 11:51 am

    RIX wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    Think about what the Republicans are up against.
    Obama was first elected because of Bush fatigue & slogans.
    He inherits a fiscal problem & drives it to a crisis by raiding the treasury
    & wasting money with ridiculous “Green” companies.
    It is classic Sophistry, create the problem & claim that the other guy
    did it , and you have the solution.
    With a complicit MSM, it works.

    The sad thing is that it is working beautifully for him.


  100. Speranza
    100 | December 24, 2012 11:53 am

    Bumr50 wrote:

    Bill Ayers, earlier this month.

    “If we want change to come, we would do well not to look at the sites of power we have no access to…” Ayers says. “We have absolute access to the community, the school, the neighborhood, the street, the classroom, the workplace, the farm, the shop.”

    That’s a guy who should have been doing a life sentence at Ft. Leavenworth.


  101. lobo91
    101 | December 24, 2012 11:53 am

    @ Speranza:

    The sad thing is that it is working beautifully for him.

    Of course it is. He has the world’s largest PR machine backing him.


  102. RIX
    102 | December 24, 2012 11:53 am

    @ Speranza:
    Yup, he owns the Media.


  103. 103 | December 24, 2012 11:56 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Bumr50 wrote:
    Bill Ayers, earlier this month.
    “If we want change to come, we would do well not to look at the sites of power we have no access to…” Ayers says. “We have absolute access to the community, the school, the neighborhood, the street, the classroom, the workplace, the farm, the shop.”
    That’s a guy who should have been doing a life sentence at Ft. Leavenworth.

    Unless I am mistaken, (Lobo91 can perhaps clear it up) Ft. Leavenworth is strictly a Military correctional institute, no civilians what-so-ever.


  104. 104 | December 24, 2012 11:56 am

    @ lobo91:

    Thanks!


  105. lobo91
    105 | December 24, 2012 11:57 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    Democrat spokeshole
    I’m going to borrow that!

    The stuff that guy was spouting was total crap. He ridiculed Wayne Lapierre’s statement that “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun” by pointing to the Ft Hood massacre and claiming that Hassan was “surrounded by good guys with guns.”

    That’s absolute BS. There are far fewer armed people walking around on a military installation than there are in the civilian world. Only MPs/DOD police are armed. One of them took Hassan down, thus proving what Lapierre said.


  106. 106 | December 24, 2012 11:57 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    @ lobo91:
    @ Speranza:
    @ Bumr50:

    Not saying it will work -- I doubt it will. But sooner or later, you have to take a stand somewhere. I’ll stand on familiar ground. And given current events, that stand might just be literal and soon…


  107. Da_Beerfreak
    107 | December 24, 2012 11:57 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Speranza:

    I’d say base it on belief in America as a constitutional federal republic, but I suppose that just shows what an out-of-touch old fart I am.

    The Mob-that-demands-free-stuff has put an end to what little was left of the Republic. Not a hell of a lot can be done now at this late date except buying more ammo… :evil:


  108. 108 | December 24, 2012 11:57 am

    @ lobo91:

    The media-entertainment industrial complex!


  109. lobo91
    109 | December 24, 2012 11:58 am

    @ doriangrey:

    Unless I am mistaken, (Lobo91 can perhaps clear it up) Ft. Leavenworth is strictly a Military correctional institute, no civilians what-so-ever.

    Ft Leavenworth is a US Army installation. Within the installation are two correctional institutions. One is the US Disciplinary Barracks (the military prison) and the other is a federal prison for civilians.


  110. waldensianspirit
    110 | December 24, 2012 11:58 am

    lobo91 wrote:

    That’s absolute BS. There are far fewer armed people walking around on a military installation than there are in the civilian world. Only MPs/DOD police are armed. One of them took Hassan down, thus proving what Lapierre said.

    Yea a gun without bullets requires getting close enough to use the buttend


  111. Bumr50
    111 | December 24, 2012 11:59 am

    @ Speranza:

    The sad part is, I’M branded as the “conspiracy theorist” when I point out things like that.

    It’s not a “conspiracy.”

    These Statists are in the open now, yet still manage to frame the debate as such that any disagreement is (in most cases successfully) labeled as “fringe” or “wacko.”

    That’s the real damage that a Todd Akin does. We cannot afford to have ACTUAL wackos.

    We are in perilous times.


  112. waldensianspirit
    112 | December 24, 2012 12:02 pm

    How do the elites stay safe?


  113. 113 | December 24, 2012 12:02 pm

    @ Bumr50:

    That’s the real damage that a Todd Akin does.

    He will go down in political infamy. he became the face of the GOP and sunk the party’s chances in the election. Yet he is viewed as some hero by some.

    Meanwhile, the march towards Marxism continues unabated.


  114. lobo91
    114 | December 24, 2012 12:03 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    That’s absolute BS. There are far fewer armed people walking around on a military installation than there are in the civilian world. Only MPs/DOD police are armed. One of them took Hassan down, thus proving what Lapierre said.
    Yea a gun without bullets requires getting close enough to use the buttend

    Most people have never been on a military installation, so all they know is what they see on TV or in movies. They actually believe that everyone walks around with M-16s all day long.

    The only time most soldiers have a weapon and live ammo in the US is when they go to the range a couple of times a year.


  115. 115 | December 24, 2012 12:05 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    A knife is a better weapon than a gun without bullets. That’s why they still issue bayonets to our troops (at least in the Marine Corps). A gun without bullets is an awkward club.


  116. 116 | December 24, 2012 12:07 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Yet he is viewed as some hero by some.

    Who? That “by some” without evidence is a classic strawman. I’m not aware of anyone who views Akin as a hero. Not even Huckabee, I don’t think.


  117. lobo91
    117 | December 24, 2012 12:07 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ waldensianspirit:
    A knife is a better weapon than a gun without bullets. That’s why they still issue bayonets to our troops (at least in the Marine Corps). A gun without bullets is an awkward club.

    They don’t walk around carrying those in CONUS, either.


  118. lobo91
    118 | December 24, 2012 12:08 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Rodan wrote:
    Yet he is viewed as some hero by some.
    Who? That “by some” without evidence is a classic strawman. I’m not aware of anyone who views Akin as a hero. Not even Huckabee, I don’t think.

    And I doubt that 1 person in 1,000 could pick Akin out of a lineup, so I don’t really see him as “the face of the Republican Party.”


  119. 119 | December 24, 2012 12:09 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    On some blogs, there were people expressing support for Akins. On different talk shows there were people defending him. I got into it with a local host who was defending Akins on some show.


  120. Da_Beerfreak
    120 | December 24, 2012 12:09 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    Speranza wrote:

    Bumr50 wrote:
    Bill Ayers, earlier this month.
    “If we want change to come, we would do well not to look at the sites of power we have no access to…” Ayers says. “We have absolute access to the community, the school, the neighborhood, the street, the classroom, the workplace, the farm, the shop.”
    That’s a guy who should have been doing a life sentence at Ft. Leavenworth.

    Unless I am mistaken, (Lobo91 can perhaps clear it up) Ft. Leavenworth is strictly a Military correctional institute, no civilians what-so-ever.

    It’s the thought that counts… :twisted:


  121. waldensianspirit
    121 | December 24, 2012 12:11 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ waldensianspirit:
    A knife is a better weapon than a gun without bullets. That’s why they still issue bayonets to our troops (at least in the Marine Corps). A gun without bullets is an awkward club.

    Obama mocks bayonets. Says they’re fewer. He’s such a knowledgeable guy


  122. 122 | December 24, 2012 12:12 pm

    @ lobo91:

    They ran ads in Florida linking Republican candidates to Akins.


  123. waldensianspirit
    123 | December 24, 2012 12:12 pm

    Nominee should have been Newt. He wanted to win. Romney, not so much


  124. waldensianspirit
    124 | December 24, 2012 12:17 pm

    Day 2. Or -8 and counting depending on how you look at it


  125. lobo91
    125 | December 24, 2012 12:17 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Obama mocks bayonets. Says they’re fewer. He’s such a knowledgeable guy

    Every member of the Army and Marines who deploys to a combat zone is issued a bayonet. Can’t speak for the Air Force or Navy. Might be too dangerous for them. :)


  126. Bumr50
    126 | December 24, 2012 12:20 pm

    @ lobo91:

    @ Iron Fist:

    The MSM will make anyone that makes a statement like that as representative of the party in general.

    Unfair?
    Yes.

    Still a fact?
    Yes.

    Most Americans get their news either from the MSM or liberal news feeds like Yahoo! or MSN. Both of which will paint the most outrageous and extreme viewpoints as mainstream within the GOP, and representative of how the party would govern should they assume power anywhere.

    While we can combat this, it still remains a fact.

    “It is what it is,” to use a sports cliche.

    Until we can actually develop and successfully iterate a platform that breaks this paradigm, we MUST mind our p’s and q’s.


  127. waldensianspirit
    127 | December 24, 2012 12:20 pm

    @ lobo91:
    :-) Might not be good in a cockpit; or while sea sick


  128. 128 | December 24, 2012 12:22 pm

    Rodan, it’s Christmas Eve. Drink a gallon of good eggnog or whatever and give it a rest, eh? Not even an atheist thinks this is the time to fight over this stuff. Or at least one atheist. Cook a turkey, buy a present, put money in the nearest Salvation Army kettle; whatever it takes. There’ll be plenty of time to argue this stuff later…

    My two cents…


  129. 129 | December 24, 2012 12:26 pm

    @ Bumr50:

    Yes, but you are always going to have the likes of Akin. The Democrats spent something like $5 million to help him win the primary. If we’d gone with Sarah Palin’s pick we’d have a new Senator from Missouri. It is what it is, though. The votes decide. IF the voters all thought the way we do, Romney would have won in a landslide.


  130. 130 | December 24, 2012 12:27 pm

    As God is my witness (so to speak), it’s snowing outside now… How freaking cool is that?


  131. 131 | December 24, 2012 12:27 pm

    New Thread


  132. 132 | December 24, 2012 12:28 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    If we’d gone with Sarah Palin’s pick we’d have a new Senator from Missouri

    Yup! Sarah Steelman would have wiped the floor with McCaskill.


  133. waldensianspirit
    133 | December 24, 2012 12:30 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    IF the voters all thought the way we do, Romney would have won in a landslide.

    But why Romney? He didn’t want to win but believed he was the only candidate; says he would have gladly had someone else run. Goes to show he is a RINO and a Cuckoo bird egg


  134. lobo91
    134 | December 24, 2012 12:30 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    There’s no way to prevent the occasional candidate like that from turning up, anyway. Under our system, if you want to run for office, you fill out some paperwork declaring yourself to be a candidate, pick a party affiliation, and get some signatures on petitions. Get enough and they put you on the ballot.


  135. waldensianspirit
    135 | December 24, 2012 12:32 pm

    The GOP elites didn’t want another Senate spot won by someone endorsed by Sarah Palin


  136. 136 | December 24, 2012 12:36 pm

    @ Mike C.:

    I wish it were snowing here. We’re a little too far south for the snow that’s coming today and tomorrow. Wah. All we got was rain.


  137. waldensianspirit
    138 | December 24, 2012 12:52 pm

    David Frum actually believes it’s just a matter of who’ll get the credit for the recovery of America. And trying to snatch it away from Obama. What a maroon!


  138. Da_Beerfreak
    139 | December 24, 2012 12:54 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    David Frum actually believes it’s just a matter of who’ll get the credit for the recovery of America. And trying to snatch it away from Obama. What a maroon!

    What recovery?? :roll:


  139. 140 | December 24, 2012 3:00 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ citizen_q:
    I think it’s worse. I believe the Democrat and national (not local) Republican parties have been bought and paid for by Islamic money.

    Ya think?

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    waldensianspirit wrote:
    David Frum actually believes it’s just a matter of who’ll get the credit for the recovery of America. And trying to snatch it away from Obama. What a maroon!

    What recovery??

    What recovery indeed? It’s the 1930s in living color!

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    IF the voters all thought the way we do, Romney would have won in a landslide.
    But why Romney? He didn’t want to win but believed he was the only candidate; says he would have gladly had someone else run. Goes to show he is a RINO and a Cuckoo bird egg

    The RINOs spent a ton of money to put him in precisely BECAUSE they knew he could not win.

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    The sad thing is that it is working beautifully for him.
    Of course it is. He has the world’s largest PR machine backing him.

    So did Hitler and Stalin, back in their day.


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