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Finding Out What’s In It! Part, I’ve Lost Count

by Flyovercountry ( 109 Comments › )
Filed under Health Care at January 8th, 2013 - 8:00 am

There are a couple of caveats to this particular link. One, this was a case filed in 2006, While George W. Bush was President, and probably wasn’t paying attention to the out of control portion of our federal behemoth that launched this particular witch hunt in which doctors who were engaged in the business of saving peoples lives became identified as public enemies began. Two, it was for actions taken by those doctors during the calendar years of 2001 through 2006. That being said, it is a symptom of our overzealous and quite frankly wrongheaded bureaucracy that has been put on steroids, and will soon threaten the health and well being of every American Citizen. The link is from The Morning Journal, a regional newspaper serving Northern Ohio, about 40 miles west of Cleveland.

You can read the article in its entirety by clicking here.

EMH Regional Medical Center and the North Ohio Heart Center have agreed to pay the federal government $4.4 million to settle allegations that between 2001 and 2006, EMH and NOHC performed unnecessary cardiac procedures on Medicare patients.

In the settlement, which was announced by the Justice Department yesterday, EMH will pay about $3.9 million, while NOHC will pay $51,870.

The federal government alleged that EMH and NOHC performed angioplasty and stent placement procedures on patients who had heart disease, but did not need them. The patients’ blood vessels were not closed off enough to require that kind of procedure.

“Billing Medicare for cardiac procedures that are not necessary or appropriate contributes to the soaring costs of health care and puts patients at risk. Today’s settlement evidences the Department of Justice’s efforts both to protect public funds and safeguard Medicare beneficiaries,” Stuart F. Delery, principal deputy assistant attorney general of the Justice Department’s Civil Division said in a statement.

You may have noticed as I did, that the allegations of wrong doing were not made by a person with a degree, or any actual knowledge of medicine. These allegations of malfeasance were leveled by a bureaucrat who’s sole interest was in saving the federal government money. Indeed, there was no doubt as to whether the individuals receiving the care had heart disease, only whether or not they were sick enough to undergo the procedures proscribed by the medical professional. The doctors said yes, and the politicians said no. In my estimation, were it me with heart disease, I’d rather the doctors be making the determination as to what was necessary, having attended medical school and all. Buried in the article was this quote, spoken by Steven M. Dettelbach, a U.S. Attorney working in Cleveland:

“Patient health and taxpayer dollars have to come before greed.”

This is what’s coming, whenever the government wants to save a few bucks, they’ll just accuse some poor doctor somewhere of amputations in order to pad their Obamacare billable hours, hold a news conference that they’re going to crack down, and then sue some poor doc for not waiting for someone to get sick enough to have the procedure that could have saved his or her life. I don’t know at what stage of heart disease a stent is most effective, or if angioplasty is warranted prior to a blockage becoming greater than 100%, 95%, or even 30%. I am humble enough to know that I should listen to the expertise of another person, like for instance, a Heart Specialist. My gripe here is that in this case, it was a couple of people with law degrees and some appointed authority who have interjected themselves into that decision, and even went the extra mile to paint the care givers with the dirty end of the stick in the process. It may be possible that by performing the procedures earlier than the attorneys thought cost effective, those patients may have had their lives extended and quality of life vastly improved far more than if they had waited for conditions to deteriorate further south. I can’t help but notice also that the paper didn’t bother to find out, or in any way ask the patients how they were feeling. No studies pointing to the efficacy of any heart procedures being ineffective when applied too early were cited at all. There must be evidence somewhere that either proves or disproves the government’s case, or at least supports their claims or provides evidence against them. In fact, it would appear that the only person lazier than the bureaucrats in this case was the reporter writing the article.

Here’s the most pernicious part of the article:

The resolution is part of the government’s emphasis on fighting health care fraud and another step for the Health Care Fraud Prevention and Enforcement Action Team initiative, which was announced by Attorney General Eric Holder and Kathleen Sebelius, secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services in May 2009. The partnership between the two departments has focused reduce and prevent Medicare and Medicaid financial fraud. One of the most powerful tools is the False Claims Act, which the Justice Department has used to recover more than $10.1 billion since January 2009. The total recoveries in False Claims Act cases since January 2009 are over $13.8 billion.

Every time the Democrats talk about where they’re going to save us money in the budget, our good friends fraud, theft, and waste, come out to play. It’s as if during the rest of the time, fraud, theft, and waste, are O.K. If it were so easy to prevent fraud, eliminate waste, and catch thieves, why wouldn’t that be a priority all the time, rather than just as a campaign talking point during election seasons? Putting that aside for just the moment, there is something else wrong here.

During a previous life, I was a retail manager for some of America’s largest retailing firms. I managed stores in urban areas, down town U.S.A., or more precisely, just out of down town areas. One of the things that I have seen was a scam where dentists would pull the teeth of drug addicts out one at a time, bill Medicaid, and give the addict a 28 day prescription for two pain killers with pretty decent street value. One pill for if the pain was normal, and another pill for if the pain was unbearable. That’s fraud.

That’s the kind of thing we all expect to be ended when our U.S. attorneys are charged by the President to put an end to the abuse we tax payers are expected to tolerate. Finding that and proving it however is not so easy as our officials are telling us. Instead, we are watching them label as butchers, doctors who are actually doing their level best to save the lives of their patients, which some day may actually be us. I do not want to wait for angioplasty to be administered with a blockage of 57% of my artery, if my doctor tells me that 40% would be better suited for saving my life and improving on my life’s quality. I want my doctor, who actually went to medical school, to make that determination without any fear of reprisal from a trained monkey known as a bureaucrat.

There is a reason why bearing false witness against your neighbor made the top ten in commandments. The damage done has reprisals far beyond the lie told. Calling doctors crooks every time they step out of the approved line for administering cost effective medical advice will cost lives and happiness galore. yes this case is from before Obamacare became law, but guess what. We have just granted these very same bureaucrats an increased level of authority, power, and privilege over our lives and the decisions of those charged with helping us to keep them. During his campaign for this sink hole of a law, Barack Obama stated that those in the medical profession routinely performed unnecessary surgeries and amputations when simple inexpensive options would have sufficed. I don’t remember the exact quote, but this story is clearly the foreshadowing of things to come. That vision ain’t pretty.

Cross Posted from Musings of a Mad Conservative.

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109 Responses to “Finding Out What’s In It! Part, I’ve Lost Count”
( jump to bottom )

  1. rain of lead
    1 | January 8, 2013 8:16 am

    mornin ya’ll
    as they say on late night infomercials
    “but wait, there’s more!”

    Omaha Wendy’s Franchise Forced to Cut Employee Hours Thanks to Obamacare

    A fast-food chain is slashing employee hours so franchise owners don’t have to pay health benefits. Around 100 local Wendy’s workers have learned their hours are being cut. A spokesperson says a new health care law is to blame.

    “Thirty-six to 37 hours a week.” That’s how many hours T.J. Growbeck works at the 84th and Giles Wendy’s restaurant. The money he earns helps him pay for the basics, but that’s not the case for all his co-workers. “There are some people doing it trying to get by.”

    The company has announced that all non-management positions will have their hours reduced to 28 a week. Gary Burdette, Vice President of Operations for the local franchise, says the cuts are coming because the new Affordable Health Care Act requires employers to offer health insurance to employees working 32-38 hours a week. Under the current law they are not considered full time and that as a small business owner, he can’t afford to stay in operation and pay for everyone’s health insurance.


  2. 2 | January 8, 2013 8:21 am

    Well said. We’re well on the way to labeling legitimate doctors and patients a criminals and criminals as victims. This health care law is already changing American life in a more profound and disturbing way than the “low information voter” ever foresaw and by the time they see it, it’ll be too late. I think it’s already too late.

    I’d like to attribute this to the “Law of Unintended Consequences”, but it’s far more likely attributable to “Obama’s Law of Intended Chaos”.


  3. 3 | January 8, 2013 8:24 am

    @ MacDuff:

    The goal of Obamacare was to collapse the private Health insurance market and create a Medicaid based single payer system.


  4. rain of lead
    4 | January 8, 2013 8:28 am

    @ Rodan:

    and it looks like we are well on our way


  5. Da_Beerfreak
    5 | January 8, 2013 8:29 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    The goal of Obamacare was to collapse the private Health insurance market and create a Medicaid based single payer system.

    That’s just a bonus.

    Its true goal is to kill off the old and sick.

    It’s the only way this rvil program can save the FedGov any money.


  6. Tanker
    6 | January 8, 2013 8:48 am

    Having reached the time in my life where I will need more healthcare to keep breathing/walking, I fine myself fighting the bureaucrats in a Gov healthcare system (TriCare). I’ve basically been told to wait for my health to get worse before they will pay for tests I and my Doctor deem required to fine and fix problems I’m having.

    Now I must say, if my problems dealt with PTSD they would be more than willing to spare a dime to help, but losing feeling and having my legs stop working while walking to the latrine (Bath/restroom for the layman) doesn’t seem to meet the requirement for care. I don’t wish this crap on anyone, other than those that impose it on us. We all know they don’t live under the rules they put on us though!


  7. 7 | January 8, 2013 8:48 am

    Rodan wrote:

    The goal of Obamacare was to collapse the private Health insurance market and create a Medicaid based single payer system.

    Indeed, then demonize the insurance market for ObamaCare’s failures and, when the private market collapses, blame the market for that as well.

    This administration isn’t about leadership, it’s about finding scapegoats.

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Its true goal is to kill off the old and sick.

    Primarily the Baby Boomers -- we’re about to become “Public Enemy #1″. I’ve mentioned this and have been called “paranoid” to my face. As they say, “one may be paranoid, but that doesn’t mean they’re not really out to get you.”


  8. Tanker
    9 | January 8, 2013 9:00 am

    rain of lead wrote:

    The bleeding continues: Okla. Taco Bell slashes worker hours due to Obamacare

    Although I feel for these people losing hours needed to get by. I still find myself asking what they were thinking when 90 to 95% of these employees voted for the people doing this too them!


  9. rain of lead
    10 | January 8, 2013 9:07 am

    @ Tanker:
    you want to read some funny stuff?
    trot over to thinkprogress and look at some of the stupid
    stuff lefties are saying about it

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/01/07/1409841/wendys-obamacare/

    makes you just wanna scream “suck it” hahahahahgaha


  10. buzzsawmonkey
    11 | January 8, 2013 9:11 am

    New Buzz Ballad: Brennan Loves the Moors.

    Comments at PJM invited, as always.


  11. rain of lead
    12 | January 8, 2013 9:25 am

    bwahahahaha
    broken hearts in san Fran.

    ‘Of course Al didn’t show up. He has no credibility’

    Yesterday morning, the still shell shocked staff at Current TV was called to an all hands staff meeting at its San Francisco headquarters, which was teleconferenced to their offices in LA and NYC, to meet their new bosses.

    Ominously missing was the creator of Current, the self proclaimed inventor of the Internet and savior of clean energy, Al Gore, although his partner, Joel Hyatt, stood proudly with the Al Jazeera honchos.

    “Of course Al didn’t show up,” said one high placed Current staffer. “He has no credibility.

    “He’s supposed to be the face of clean energy and just sold [the channel] to very big oil, the emir of Qatar! Current never even took big oil advertising—and Al Gore, that bulls***ter sells to the emir?”

    The meeting, while not contentious, was, according to staffers who spoke on the condition of anonymity, miserable.

    *grin*


  12. RIX
    13 | January 8, 2013 9:27 am

    Good morning. Has the train wreck in Miami been cleaned up?


  13. Da_Beerfreak
    14 | January 8, 2013 9:29 am

    @ rain of lead:
    I really do love seeing my enemies suffer… :twisted:


  14. buzzsawmonkey
    15 | January 8, 2013 9:31 am

    @ rain of lead:

    Sounds like they have some cross Currents over there…


  15. rain of lead
    16 | January 8, 2013 9:33 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    *groan*


  16. 17 | January 8, 2013 9:37 am

    RIX wrote:

    Good morning. Has the train wreck in Miami been cleaned up?

    Gawd, what an ass-whuppin’!


  17. Tanker
    18 | January 8, 2013 9:41 am

    @ rain of lead:
    Doesn’t take longer to realize why this country is going to chit reading those comments. Businesses aren’t in business to cover healthcare, a great thing if their bottom line allows it, but not their goal!

    As others here say, economics would be a great thing to reapply to our educational system!


  18. RIX
    19 | January 8, 2013 9:41 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    Good morning. Has the train wreck in Miami been cleaned up?

    Gawd, what an ass-whuppin’!

    It was painful. Turns out that Las Vegas actually over estimated
    Notre Dame.


  19. rain of lead
    20 | January 8, 2013 9:42 am

    @ MacDuff:

    we must thank ND’s poor performance for the increased call to have a true playoff system sooner rather than later


  20. 21 | January 8, 2013 9:56 am

    @ rain of lead:

    My problem is that teams that are not in the ranks of the “traditionally elite” are pretty much locked out. My Louisville team, #21, beat the crap out of #3 Florida and ended up #13 with Florida ending up #9. Final rankings don’t mean beans, but Louisville proved themselves a better team than Florida and the rankings, if they mean anything should have reflected that.


  21. 22 | January 8, 2013 9:58 am

    @ RIX:
    We just have to take our whuppin’ like men. :(


  22. RIX
    23 | January 8, 2013 10:01 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    @ RIX:
    We just have to take our whuppin’ like men.

    Nothing else to do. The whoopin was total


  23. RIX
    24 | January 8, 2013 10:03 am

    rain of lead wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    we must thank ND’s poor performance for the increased call to have a true playoff system sooner rather than later

    Way past time. It’s really the most fair way.


  24. theoutsider
    25 | January 8, 2013 10:05 am

    @ Rodan:
    No it wasn’t.


  25. 26 | January 8, 2013 10:06 am

    RIX wrote:

    Nothing else to do. The whoopin was total

    There’s a regular poster here (can’t remember his name) who’s a big “Bam fan. I posted a congrats on his Facebook page this morning. The Irish just ran into a buzz saw last night! Two National Championships in a row and, what, three out of the last four? Impressive.


  26. 27 | January 8, 2013 10:11 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    No it wasn’t.

    Is that what OFA told you?


  27. buzzsawmonkey
    28 | January 8, 2013 10:13 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    No it wasn’t.

    Somebody thinks he’s John Cleese.
    Somebody is wrong.


  28. RIX
    29 | January 8, 2013 10:13 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    Nothing else to do. The whoopin was total

    There’s a regular poster here (can’t remember his name) who’s a big “Bam fan. I posted a congrats on his Facebook page this morning. The Irish just ran into a buzz saw last night! Two National Championships in a row and, what, three out of the last four? Impressive.

    The SEC is just superior to every other conference & obviously independents.
    On the bright side Notre Dame is credited with the best recruiting class for
    2013.


  29. lobo91
    30 | January 8, 2013 10:18 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    No it wasn’t.

    Since that’s going to be the primary result, then I guess that makes the people behind it incompetent, doesn’t it?


  30. theoutsider
    31 | January 8, 2013 10:19 am

    @ Rodan:
    OFA? What the Fuck are you talking about?


  31. RIX
    32 | January 8, 2013 10:19 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    The goal of Obamacare was to collapse the private Health insurance market and create a Medicaid based single payer system.

    This is a segue to the real goal, Single Payer.
    The Patients Protection & Affordable Care Act does not protect
    patients & will drive costs through the roof.
    Therefore the pitch will be for single payer & rationing.
    Don’t be an imperfect child under two years old in need of care.


  32. 33 | January 8, 2013 10:21 am

    @ lobo91:

    Results don’t matter. It is the feeling behind the motivations that matters. Obama felt that he was right, so the fact that costs have gone up and coverage has gone down (not to mention people have gotten their work hours cut, and some peopl ehave lost their jobs) doesn’t matter.


  33. buzzsawmonkey
    34 | January 8, 2013 10:21 am

    RIX wrote:

    Don’t be an imperfect child under two years old in need of care.

    Or someone over 80 who needs a knee replacement or heart surgery or rehab therapy.


  34. 35 | January 8, 2013 10:21 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    OFA? What the Fuck are you talking about?

    “Obama For America”; the Ministry of Information.


  35. 36 | January 8, 2013 10:24 am

    Later, peeps.


  36. Guggi
    37 | January 8, 2013 10:24 am

    lobo91 wrote:

    Since that’s going to be the primary result, then I guess that makes the people behind it incompetent, doesn’t it?

    ding ding ding ding ding :-)


  37. buzzsawmonkey
    38 | January 8, 2013 10:25 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    “Obama For America”; the Ministry of Information.

    I thought “OFA” stood for “Office for F*cking America.”


  38. RIX
    39 | January 8, 2013 10:27 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    Don’t be an imperfect child under two years old in need of care.

    Or someone over 80 who needs a knee replacement or heart surgery or rehab therapy.

    That person will be issued pain pills.
    This will be ugly.


  39. 40 | January 8, 2013 10:28 am

    RIX wrote:

    Don’t be an imperfect child under two years old in need of care.

    Imperfect people don’t have a right to life. If I were someone with a congenital disability, I’d have found the rhetoric surrounding Trig Palin terrifying. These people aren’t just pro-abortion. THey are pro-Death. They are pro-eugenics. They want to snuff out the imperfect, to breed a perfect race of humans. Margaret Sanger would be thrilled to see what Planned Parenthood has become.


  40. lobo91
    41 | January 8, 2013 10:29 am

    Guggi wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    Since that’s going to be the primary result, then I guess that makes the people behind it incompetent, doesn’t it?

    ding ding ding ding ding

    It’s pretty obvious to anyone who’s paying attention that the real goal was to collapse the system, but if he wants to play that game, fine. There are only two possible explanations, after all: Malice or incompetence.


  41. lobo91
    42 | January 8, 2013 10:30 am

    @ RIX:

    That person will be issued pain pills.
    This will be ugly.

    That’s more than I’ve gotten from my government-run healthcare.

    All I got was a letter.


  42. buzzsawmonkey
    43 | January 8, 2013 10:32 am

    RIX wrote:

    This will be ugly.

    For a preview of Obamacare in full, read George Orwell’s essay, “How the Poor Die.”


  43. RIX
    44 | January 8, 2013 10:32 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    I think that you have it exactly right, these people are into Eugenics.
    This is the dawning of their Brave New World.


  44. The Osprey
    45 | January 8, 2013 10:33 am

    This needs to go viral:

    Sipsey Street Exclusive: Thomas Nee, key member of Joe Biden’s “gun violence commission,” has a son who was convicted of plotting a Columbine-style mass murder at a school — possibly with a service weapon obtained from his father.

    http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2013/01/sipsey-street-exclusive-thomas-nee-key.html?m=1


  45. buzzsawmonkey
    46 | January 8, 2013 10:34 am

    The Osprey wrote:

    Sipsey Street Exclusive: Thomas Nee, key member of Joe Biden’s “gun violence commission,” has a son who was convicted of plotting a Columbine-style mass murder at a school — possibly with a service weapon obtained from his father.

    See, this means that Nee brings special knowledge and expertise to the commission.


  46. RIX
    47 | January 8, 2013 10:35 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    I know that Orwell was writing about his times, but he was
    prophetic.


  47. buzzsawmonkey
    48 | January 8, 2013 10:37 am

    RIX wrote:

    I know that Orwell was writing about his times, but he was
    prophetic.

    Huxley was writing about his own time, too—as all authors of dystopian science fiction are—yet Brave New World was also prophetic. We are, in fact, far closer to Huxley’s vision of the future than to Orwell’s—though there are disturbing elements of Orwell’s vision mixed in.


  48. 49 | January 8, 2013 10:38 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    I thought the same thing. Let’s face it. This “commission” has only one purpose, to suggest draconian gun control. Their results are pre-determined. It is designed to give a shell of legitimacy to what Obama intends to do by executive fiat. There’s no way he can get anything through congress. It is what he’ll do by Executive Order that we have to worry about.


  49. RIX
    50 | January 8, 2013 10:39 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    I know that Orwell was writing about his times, but he was
    prophetic.

    Huxley was writing about his own time, too—as all authors of dystopian science fiction are—yet Brave New World was also prophetic. We are, in fact, far closer to Huxley’s vision of the future than to Orwell’s—though there are disturbing elements of Orwell’s vision mixed in.

    Yes, what is clear is that we are heading to a bad place.


  50. buzzsawmonkey
    51 | January 8, 2013 10:41 am

    The Osprey wrote:

    Thomas Nee, key member of Joe Biden’s “gun violence commission,”

    “Nee”? I bet he will demand a shrubbery.


  51. 52 | January 8, 2013 10:42 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    OFA? What the Fuck are you talking about?

    You get the email talking points so do not act like you do not know.


  52. lobo91
    53 | January 8, 2013 10:43 am

    Gabby Giffords launches group to counter gun lobby

    A national initiative aimed at curbing gun violence was launched by former US. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly, on Tuesday — the second anniversary of the shooting that killed six people and left her critically injured.

    A new campaign website, Americans For Responsible Solutions, promised to “launch a national dialogue and raise funds to counter influence of the gun lobby.”

    The couple last week visited Newtown, Conn., where a gunman opened fire in an elementary school, killing 20 children and six adults in December. They also met with New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a gun control advocate.

    “In response to a horrific series of shootings that has sown terror in our communities, victimized tens of thousands of Americans, and left one of its own bleeding and near death in a Tucson parking lot, Congress has done something quite extraordinary -- nothing at all,” the pair wrote in an editorial published Tuesday on their site and in USA Today.

    “Achieving reforms to reduce gun violence and prevent mass shootings will mean matching gun lobbyists in their reach and resources,” they wrote in the column.

    “This country is known for using its determination and ingenuity to solve problems, big and small. Wise policy has conquered disease, protected us from dangerous products and substances, and made transportation safer. But when it comes to protecting our communities from gun violence, we’re not even trying — and for the worst of reasons.”


  53. 54 | January 8, 2013 10:47 am

    @ lobo91:

    Notice Progressives use the term Americans for (Insert cause here) for all their groups?


  54. lobo91
    55 | January 8, 2013 10:48 am

    Michael Bloomberg: “We Can Beat The NRA”…

    MICHAEL BLOOMBERG: There are realities. The reality is most Americans think it’s crazy to have assault weapons and high capacity magazines. The vast majority of the people think they should be reasonable. The majority of the Supreme Court justices as well think there should be reasonable controls so you shouldn’t have guns in the hands of minors or criminals or people with psychiatric problems or substance abuse problems. There are some legislators who think differently or they think that their careers would be limited if they go against the NRA. I don’t happen to think that’s true. The NRA was notoriously unsuccessful in this last election term. They set one major priority, and that was to defeat Barack Obama. In a couple weeks you will see an inauguration. Barack Obama is getting inaugurated again. Shows you the power of the NRA. [We] created a little PAC, we went against three members and in our cases the opponents won. We can beat the NRA. All you have to do is accept reasonable restrictions. Nobody is trying to take away your gun or right to go hunting or target shooting or have protection in your home. Simply trying to have reasonable things so people aren’t killed. You saw this woman talking about her 9-year-old daughter. Every parent sits there and thinks, if it was my kid.


  55. 56 | January 8, 2013 10:49 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Yes, so a true playoff system, like they actually have in D2 and D3 should be the way to go, and not some top ranked 4 team crap. By the way, there are many more teams in D’s 2 and 3, so that there are too many teams for a playoff system tripe just won’t wash.


  56. Da_Beerfreak
    57 | January 8, 2013 10:51 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    theoutsider wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    OFA? What the Fuck are you talking about?

    “Obama For America”; the Ministry of Information.

    It’s really the Mainstay of MisInformation.


  57. 58 | January 8, 2013 10:51 am

    @ lobo91:

    Nobody is trying to take away your gun or right to go hunting

    I hate the hunting straw-man. That is not what the 2nd Amendment is for. They are so dishonest.


  58. 59 | January 8, 2013 10:51 am

    Flyovercountry wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    Yes, so a true playoff system, like they actually have in D2 and D3 should be the way to go, and not some top ranked 4 team crap. By the way, there are many more teams in D’s 2 and 3, so that there are too many teams for a playoff system tripe just won’t wash.

    My next thread is about last night’s disgrace.


  59. Da_Beerfreak
    60 | January 8, 2013 10:53 am

    RIX wrote:

    That person will be issued pain pills.
    This will be ugly.

    One pill in each bottle will be a real killer…


  60. lobo91
    61 | January 8, 2013 10:55 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    Notice Progressives use the term Americans for (Insert cause here) for all their groups?

    They also always like to pretend these little front organizations are actually “groups” with members, which they almost never are.


  61. 62 | January 8, 2013 10:55 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Orwell’s Dystopian vision was based entirely on the former Soviet Union, which collapsed, and resembled his vision pretty darned close, at least in spirit. He never intended it to translate itself to our society, I don’t believe Orwell himself saw this coming. This is more like a bad Star Trek script where when the good guys blow up the alien ship from hell, the aliens secretly board the good guy’s ship and start running amok. Obama of course is an alien.


  62. theoutsider
    63 | January 8, 2013 10:56 am

    @ Rodan:
    I Speak for myself. When is the next Blocmocracy radio anyway?


  63. 64 | January 8, 2013 11:00 am

    @ lobo91:

    They lie so easily. It is what they do. If they were really interested in crime, they wouldn’t be talking about “assault” weapons. I don’t know that they can beat the NRA, though. The last time the Senate voted out a gun control bill, the Senate changed hands. There are something like 14 Democrat Senators up for re-election in 2014. I bet all of them just wish this issue would go away. I don’t think they are goin gto be able to do anything legislatively, but Obama may do something with Executive Orders.


  64. 65 | January 8, 2013 11:01 am

    @ theoutsider:

    Maybe Sunday. I’ll give a heads up.


  65. 66 | January 8, 2013 11:02 am

    @ lobo91:

    What members they have tend to be duplicates. It is the same peopel over and over using different front groups with different name, but the agenda is the same. They want to take away our freedom any way that they can. They are counting on emotion to trump logic here. I don’t think they are going to get what they want from the Legislature.


  66. 67 | January 8, 2013 11:03 am

    @ lobo91:

    Yup!


  67. heysoos
    69 | January 8, 2013 11:04 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    What members they have tend to be duplicates. It is the same peopel over and over using different front groups with different name, but the agenda is the same. They want to take away our freedom any way that they can. They are counting on emotion to trump logic here. I don’t think they are goin got get what they want from the Legislature.

    I’m not nearly as confident as you….they are really gonna crank up the pressure this time and something has to give…hope I’m wrong


  68. taxfreekiller
    70 | January 8, 2013 11:04 am

    On “finding out what is in it”.

    To whom it might concern: (Possible work for the boiler room guys)

    Over at http://www.wattsupwiththat.com

    There is the need to help make searchable the “Christmas Gift” of the IPCC AR5 leak that is now posted and down loadable at Watts Up With That.


  69. 71 | January 8, 2013 11:14 am

    @ heysoos:

    We’ll see. I think that those Democrat Senators who are up for re-election are going to be very balky about this. And the GOP has to stand firm. If they cave on this they will fragment. There really will be no point in voting for Republicans if they are going to cave on this fundamental an issue. I don’ tkno wthat Boehner gets that, but I think a majority in the House does.


  70. Da_Beerfreak
    72 | January 8, 2013 11:16 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    They lie so easily. It is what they do. If they were really interested in crime, they wouldn’t be talking about “assault” weapons. I don’t know that they can beat the NRA, though. The last time the Senate voted out a gun control bill, the Senate changed hands. There are something like 14 Democrat Senators up for re-election in 2014. I bet all of them just wish this issue would go away. I don’t think they are goin gto be able to do anything legislatively, but Obama may do something with Executive Orders.

    Obama doesn’t need or want any help from Congress. The do nothing Congress is his excuse for his plans to run this Country his way.

    Since no one in DC Town has the balls to stop him he’ll probably get away with it.


  71. RIX
    73 | January 8, 2013 11:17 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    That person will be issued

    pain pills.
    This will be ugly.

    One pill in each bottle will be a real killer…

    For the common good.


  72. Da_Beerfreak
    74 | January 8, 2013 11:19 am

    RIX wrote:

    For the common good.

    You got that right Komrade. :cool:


  73. 75 | January 8, 2013 11:20 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Since no one in DC Town has the balls to stop him he’ll probably get away with it.

    That is what I worry about. We can’t count on the Supreme Court to strike down any gun control he imposes by Executive fiat. John Roberts is the weak link. I don’t kno whow he’d vote in such a case, but if he doesn’t vote to strike Obama down, Heller means jack shit. It doesn’t matter if the Courts says the Second Amendment is a “right” if they won’t stop the government from infringing on it.


  74. RIX
    76 | January 8, 2013 11:20 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    Notice Progressives use the term Americans for (Insert cause here) for all their groups?

    Notice that the question the patriotism of anybody who disagrees with them,
    starting with Obama.
    I remember when they would shriek, “Don’t question my patriotism!”


  75. 77 | January 8, 2013 11:21 am

    @ heysoos:

    I spent casual carpool this a.m. listening to a low information voter tell me how the Social Security system was actually solvent and it was being used as a scare tactic to voters. That there was really just oodles and oodles of money in it and they’ll be able to pay out right up until 2033 -- they just want to scare the young people.

    At that point, it was either set this idiot straight or jump out of a moving car at 65 mph. There are no funds in the Social Security lockbox. There are a boatload of IOU’s and a hope that they’ll be able to pay it out. Oh, and yes, they’ll be coming after your 401K’s and any deferred compensation accounts you have because they are going to have to get that money from somewhere. And by the way, you used to have five workers for every ONE that collected Social Security -- now you have about two. And the burdens on the system are going to grow, not shrink -- baby boomers are retiring, although thankfully many of them are even having to defer that -- also you have a nice group that have suddenly developed a disability for which Social Security needs to pay them, now that their unemployment has run out. And all the while we’ve been underpaying in the system for the last two years or so thanks to the “payroll tax holiday.”

    And moron was surprised to learn that the holiday ended on January 1. Of course she works for the State of California, so I am not surprised in the least that she was as information deficient as she way. She also thinks the taxpayers of California need to make up for her CalPERS losses -- it’s only fair.

    Oh, and the rich are evil. Really evil.


  76. RIX
    78 | January 8, 2013 11:22 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    For the common good.

    You got that right Komrade.

    Obama for a New Amerika!


  77. 79 | January 8, 2013 11:24 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    He has the Media-Entertainment Industrial Complex as well. Obama can do anything he wants at the moment. He can rape a young boy on live TV and the people will cheer him.


  78. 80 | January 8, 2013 11:25 am

    @ Rodan:

    Well considering there appears to be a move afoot to “normalize” pedophilia, in a few years it won’t matter.


  79. eaglesoars
    81 | January 8, 2013 11:25 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    Oh, and yes, they’ll be coming after your 401K’s and any deferred compensation accounts you have because they are going to have to get that money from somewhere

    That’s why they’re going after the guns first


  80. 82 | January 8, 2013 11:28 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    That one will backfire big. Gays are one thing, Pedophiles are a holy different matter. Let the Left hang themselves on that one.


  81. 83 | January 8, 2013 11:29 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    Yep, they have a brand-new agenda now that Obama’s gotten re-elected. And it’s surprising a lot of people. Not us, though. Wait for it -- you’ll be hearing in the coming months about how selfish and wasteful the 401K and IRA’s are and that the government could do so much more with that money. Distribution of wealth -- and it’s going to hit squarely on the middle class.


  82. heysoos
  83. Da_Beerfreak
    85 | January 8, 2013 11:30 am

    RIX wrote:

    Obama for a New Amerika!

    All hail El Douche Baby Doc Baraq…


  84. 86 | January 8, 2013 11:32 am

    @ Rodan:

    I would think so, too, but as you just pointed out -- the media cabal is all about the agenda. Look at the whole thing with Roman Polanski -- he’s now a media hero when in fact he drugged a 13-year-old girl and raped her. But now it’s all about “forgive and forget.” Not to mention the Islamic angle on this one.

    We normalize pedophilia, and we can kiss any resemblance of civilization goodbye.


  85. 87 | January 8, 2013 11:33 am

    @ Rodan:

    Yeah, but peopl elove their guns. I think whatever Obama tries will be met with massive resistance. I am not talking about violence, but civil disobediance on a scale that is unprecedented.


  86. buzzsawmonkey
    88 | January 8, 2013 11:34 am

    Flyovercountry wrote:

    Orwell’s Dystopian vision was based entirely on the former Soviet Union, which collapsed, and resembled his vision pretty darned close, at least in spirit. He never intended it to translate itself to our society, I don’t believe Orwell himself saw this coming. This is more like a bad Star Trek script where when the good guys blow up the alien ship from hell, the aliens secretly board the good guy’s ship and start running amok. Obama of course is an alien.

    It’s true that Orwell’s vision was based on the Soviet Union—how frighteningly close he was is confirmed by the excellent book The Commissar Vanishes, which shows, picture by picture, how the Stalinist “Ministry of Truth” would edit people out (and sometimes, back into) photos and paintings, depending on how they stood with the Party—but despite the Soviet Union’s collapse there are elements of Orwell’s vision that have translated to our current society.

    Orwell foresaw the constant spying of the telescreen. We don’t have that, exactly—rather, we have the constant spying of cell phone cameras in private hands; of corporations like Facebook and Google and Amazon monitoring our every online action, and our likes and dislikes; companies for whom people work screening and blocking emails on the basis of “objectionable language”; and, too, government monitoring of electronic communications and of people’s locations via GPS. We may not have Orwell’s telescreens, exactly, but we are monitored to an extent that would have been seen as mindboggling, and oppressive, a mere forty or fifty years ago.

    Orwell’s “Anti-Sex League” also exists, more as a “Pro-Sex League” which combines the hedonism of Huxley’s Brave New World with a rigid Orwellian orthodoxy as to how we are to think of sex and interpersonal relations. For that matter, we have less an “Anti-Sex League” than an “Anti-Birth League” in the form of the liberal exaltation of abortion as a sexual/secular sacrament. In addition, we have under Obama and his ideological allies the managed scarcity—of electricity, of gasoline, of light bulbs, of many things, which existed in Orwell’s world.

    So, yes—Orwell’s predictions/previews are not strictly applicable to our own day, but there are distinct elements of his vision which have indeed come to pass, albeit in slightly altered form.


  87. Da_Beerfreak
    89 | January 8, 2013 11:35 am

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    Oh, and yes, they’ll be coming after your 401K’s and any deferred compensation accounts you have because they are going to have to get that money from somewhere

    That’s why they’re going after the guns first

    And let’s not forget Agenda 21, it’s damn hard to resettle an armed population.
    Federal Land Grab in Brazil, Whole Towns Evicted at Gunpoint
    Enacting Agenda 21 at the point of a gun.


  88. 90 | January 8, 2013 11:40 am

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    I am mindful of those fateful words of Ronald Reagan (and I’ll have to paraphase here) that we have to be vigilant or one day we’ll be telling our children or grandchildren what it was like to live in freedom.


  89. 91 | January 8, 2013 11:40 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    Yeah, but peopl elove their guns. I think whatever Obama tries will be met with massive resistance. I am not talking about violence, but civil disobediance on a scale that is unprecedented.

    I hope you are right.


  90. 92 | January 8, 2013 11:42 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Not to mention the Islamic angle on this one.

    That will be the pretext.


  91. eaglesoars
    93 | January 8, 2013 11:43 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    And let’s not forget Agenda 21, it’s damn hard to resettle an armed population.

    We’re seeing attempts at that here in Virginia. Thank god for our Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli -- he just crushed the EPA in court the other day. Under the clean water act, they tried to say water is a pollutant because it carries unwanted sediment to Accotink Creek. They wanted the tributaries re-directed which would have meant the forcible removal of people from their homes, destruction of said homes, etc. Cost to the state over $300 mil.

    Just think. Water is a pollutant. The judge’s ruling was nearly appoplectic.


  92. Da_Beerfreak
    94 | January 8, 2013 11:43 am

    From the It’s Always Something (IAS) file.
    Forget The Debt Ceiling — Traders Are Buzzing About The Gigantic Asteroid Barreling Towards Earth

    Were the Mayans right?? Just off a bit?? :shock:


  93. buzzsawmonkey
    95 | January 8, 2013 11:47 am

    Rodan wrote:

    That one will backfire big. Gays are one thing, Pedophiles are a holy different matter. Let the Left hang themselves on that one.

    The entire “gay”—that is, homosexual—classification is a relic of 19th century pseudoscience. Declaring “pedophilia” as another “sexual classification” is merely compounding this pseudoscientific relic.

    People have preferences. Some people prefer blondes, or brunettes, or redheads, or skinny partners, or fat partners, or same-sex partners, or children, or sadomasochism, or coprophagia, or…whatever. The reasons for such preferences are obscure, and wholly unknown to any actual “science.”

    What people do about such preferences is within their own control.


  94. buzzsawmonkey
    96 | January 8, 2013 11:48 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Forget The Debt Ceiling — Traders Are Buzzing About The Gigantic Asteroid Barreling Towards Earth

    If nuclear weapons cannot destroy such an asteroid, that establishes that all the anti-nuke alarmism is a total crock.


  95. 97 | January 8, 2013 11:49 am

    New Thread.


  96. buzzsawmonkey
    98 | January 8, 2013 11:52 am

    Rodan wrote:

    New Thread.

    But I like this one.


  97. Da_Beerfreak
    99 | January 8, 2013 11:52 am

    @ eaglesoars:
    That’s a good example of why I keep saying that it’s only the States that have enough power to stand up and fight the foolishness that keeps coming out of DC Town. We The People are screwed without the States being willing to fight for us.


  98. Da_Beerfreak
    100 | January 8, 2013 11:53 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Rodan wrote:

    New Thread.

    But I like this one.

    It’s another sports thread. I’ll be so glad when the season is over.


  99. buzzsawmonkey
    101 | January 8, 2013 11:55 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    it’s only the States that have enough power to stand up and fight the foolishness that keeps coming out of DC Town

    That will change this Spring, when the First DA/DT Justice™ guts the Tenth Amendment to force same-sex marriage on the nation.


  100. eaglesoars
    102 | January 8, 2013 11:58 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    But I like this one.

    me too but I have chores/errands to take care of so I have to scoot anyway.


  101. buzzsawmonkey
    103 | January 8, 2013 12:00 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    me too but I have chores/errands to take care of so I have to scoot anyway.

    Check out the current Buzz Ballad at PJM, if/when you have time.


  102. Da_Beerfreak
    104 | January 8, 2013 12:03 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Forget The Debt Ceiling — Traders Are Buzzing About The Gigantic Asteroid Barreling Towards Earth

    If nuclear weapons cannot destroy such an asteroid, that establishes that all the anti-nuke alarmism is a total crock.

    A nuclear bomb would only break it into smaller chunks, it wouldn’t stop it from hitting the Earth. It might even make the effects of the impact worse. You just changed a rifle bullet into a shotgun blast. The only way to save the Earth is to change the asteroid’s course, and no one has figured out a way to do that with what we currently have to work with. This is what all the time and money wasted on global warming should have been spent on.


  103. buzzsawmonkey
    105 | January 8, 2013 12:06 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    A nuclear bomb would only break it into smaller chunks, it wouldn’t stop it from hitting the Earth.

    Small chunks more readily burn up in the atmosphere. And anything that actually lands can be sold to the Muslims so that they can franchise Ka’abas all over the world…


  104. Da_Beerfreak
    106 | January 8, 2013 12:09 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    it’s only the States that have enough power to stand up and fight the foolishness that keeps coming out of DC Town

    That will change this Spring, when the First DA/DT Justice™ guts the Tenth Amendment to force same-sex marriage on the nation.

    That will only guarantee that sometime in the not so distant future the issues separating the Red and the Blue will be settled the old fashion way, by force of arms.


  105. 107 | January 8, 2013 12:18 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    It may not end or happen how you think. A 3rd force may arise to oppose both Red and Blue.


  106. Da_Beerfreak
    108 | January 8, 2013 12:51 pm

    @ Rodan:
    Either way, things are going to change. Things that can’t go on forever won’t.


  107. randian
    109 | January 8, 2013 10:42 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    true goal is to kill off the old and sick

    We’ll see whether the FDA starts banning supplements like they’re doing in the EU. That will solidify their true position.


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