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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

by Iron Fist ( 205 Comments › )
Filed under Politics, Second Amendment, The Constitution at January 10th, 2013 - 10:30 am

This is my favorite quote from Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s excellent (and depressing) The Gulag Archipellago:

And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?

Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?

After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria [Government limo] sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur — what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked.

The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

That, Guys and Dolls, is why Obama wants gun control. A totalitarian State cannot function, cannot function, with an armed citizenry. They cannot opress us too much as long as we are armed. That is the big danger of gun control. Everywhere it has been implemented you have seen a reduction in freedom. Not just in the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (the most obvious one) or the right to self-defense, but freedom of expression (hate crimes laws), freedom of religion, and for the most part the so-called “Free” Press has gone along with it. How much of that is from intimidation and how much of it is that fellow travellers never speak ill of one another is an open question.. Here in America a film maker was jailed for blaphemy for making a movie critical of Islam and Mohammed. Here in America the Catholic Church is being forced to pay for abortions in contravention of some of their deepest held religious beliefs. It all forms a pattern, and that pattern is one of dictatorship. People have often asked why people couldn’t see Hitler coming. Personally, I’ve always thought that some people probably did see Hitler coming (Churchill for sure did), but their warnings went unheeded. We are in a nacent dictatorship. Obama didn’t take over by coup, but neither did Hitler. It is not too late to stop Obama. He hasn’t required gun registration and started the warrentless sweeps to enforce it (an idea from the Clinton Administration), but he is considering such moves. Many high-profile Democrats are talking about registration and confiscation of firearms. These aren’t just pie-in-the-sky wish lists. They are serious proposals that must be taken seriously. It is not just Obama that moves against us. He has the support of major Democrats across the board. In a number of States steps are being taken to disarm the citizenry, the most prominent of these being in New York. This despite two clear Supreme Court decisions stating that the Right to Keep and Bear Arms is a serious individual right, and that that right is enforceable against the individual States as well as the Federal Government. TO be pro-gun control is, objectively, to be anti-civil rights. There is no moral difference between these gun controllers of today and the “Segregation Forever” Democrats of yesterday. Just as in the latter case, we must? defeate these counter-liberty forces if we are to survive as a Republic.

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205 Responses to “ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ”
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  1. 1 | January 10, 2013 10:40 am

    Awesome thread, this is a classic and from the heart!

    That is the big danger of gun control. Everywhere it has been implemented you have seen a reduction in freedom. Not just in the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (the most obvious one) or the right to self-defense, but freedom of expression (hate crimes laws), freedom of religion, and for the most part the so-called “Free” Press has gone along with it.

    The press is a propaganda machine at this point.

    Many high-profile Democrats are talking about registration and confiscation of firearms. These aren’t just pie-in-the-sky wish lists. They are serious proposals that must be taken seriously. It is not just Obama that moves against us. He has the support of major Democrats across the board.

    They are not bluffing or using rhetoric. The Dems mean it.

    Just as in the latter case, we must? defeate these counter-liberty forces if we are to survive as a Republic.

    The sad part is there’s no opposition party.


  2. Da_Beerfreak
    2 | January 10, 2013 10:40 am

    If…if…We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation…. We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.

    Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn – The Gulag Archipelago


  3. 3 | January 10, 2013 10:48 am

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    Yes. We are sitting on a precipice before such a thing. We must not allow ourselves to be disarmed. We must use every legal avenue to prevent it. Civil disobediance is also possible. As a matter of fact, I don’t think the people who are setting records buying guns today are doing so just so they can let Andsrew Cuomo take them away from them tomorrow. But the Democrats are very serious about this. They want disarmed peasants living in terror if their State Organs. Drudge hit the nail on the head yesterday when he compared Obama to Hitler and Stalin. Obama even has his own cult of personality going on.


  4. 4 | January 10, 2013 10:52 am

    I remember the days when the Gulag Archipelago was required reading in high school.


  5. eaglesoars
    5 | January 10, 2013 10:55 am

    I read a quip the other day, can’t remember where.

    “I saw a movie once where only the military and the police had guns. It was called Schindler’s List”


  6. 6 | January 10, 2013 10:55 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Cuomo probably thinks this is like the Fascist era of his homeland (Italy). He thinks the government could just take guns.


  7. buzzsawmonkey
    7 | January 10, 2013 10:58 am

    New Buzz Ballad: “The New Dictatorship.”


  8. 8 | January 10, 2013 10:58 am

    This is the conseuqnces of not having a serious opposition. The DEmocrats have complete defacto power in the country.


  9. lobo91
    9 | January 10, 2013 10:58 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    I remember the days when the Gulag Archipelago was required reading in high school.

    I think it’s been replaced with “Earth in the Balance” now.

    And since most of them can’t read anything longer than a text message, they just watch “An Inconvenient Truth,” instead.


  10. buzzsawmonkey
    10 | January 10, 2013 11:03 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    I remember the days when the Gulag Archipelago was required reading in high school.

    “Reading?” What is this “reading” of which you speak?


  11. 11 | January 10, 2013 11:04 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Very good. You are a subversive Poet. No potato for you!


  12. 12 | January 10, 2013 11:07 am

    @ Rodan:

    I heard the clips of his “speech” last night. Guy sounded just like a fascist dictator.


  13. 13 | January 10, 2013 11:08 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    It’s an archaic skill. Like shorthand.


  14. buzzsawmonkey
    14 | January 10, 2013 11:08 am

    The Left has a militias view of the right to gun ownership.


  15. Da_Beerfreak
    15 | January 10, 2013 11:09 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    Yes. We are sitting on a precipice before such a thing. We must not allow ourselves to be disarmed. We must use every legal avenue to prevent it. Civil disobediance is also possible. As a matter of fact, I don’t think the people who are setting records buying guns today are doing so just so they can let Andsrew Cuomo take them away from them tomorrow. But the Democrats are very serious about this. They want disarmed peasants living in terror if their State Organs. Drudge hit the nail on the head yesterday when he compared Obama to Hitler and Stalin. Obama even has his own cult of personality going on.

    This is only the first step in their plan to make all dissent or any other form of disagreement with the Regime illegal and subject to criminal prosecution.


  16. eaglesoars
    16 | January 10, 2013 11:10 am

    I’m off to do some required reading myself. Yinz be well.


  17. 17 | January 10, 2013 11:10 am

    @ lobo91:

    The biggest mistake Conservatives have done is not focus on school board elections.


  18. buzzsawmonkey
    18 | January 10, 2013 11:11 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    This is only the first step in their plan to make all dissent or any other form of disagreement with the Regime illegal and subject to criminal prosecution.

    But…but…dissent is the highest form of patriotism! Hillary Clinton said so!


  19. 19 | January 10, 2013 11:11 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    I heard the clips of his “speech” last night. Guy sounded just like a fascist dictator.

    Andrew Cuomo is a Fascist.


  20. buzzsawmonkey
    20 | January 10, 2013 11:11 am

    Rodan wrote:

    The biggest mistake Conservatives have done is not focus on school board elections.

    And on what is being taught in the universities.


  21. buzzsawmonkey
    21 | January 10, 2013 11:12 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Andrew Cuomo is a Fascist.

    He comes by it honestly, what with the Italian background and all…


  22. 22 | January 10, 2013 11:13 am

    The Obama Campaign has not ended.

    In campaign for tougher gun laws, Obama and allies work to tilt public opinion


  23. 23 | January 10, 2013 11:13 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    All the focus on College Education has been a huge mistake.


  24. buzzsawmonkey
    24 | January 10, 2013 11:14 am

    Rodan wrote:

    In campaign for tougher gun laws, Obama and allies work to tilt public opinion

    That deaf, dumb and blind kid sure plays a mean pinball.


  25. 25 | January 10, 2013 11:14 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    I would not be shocked if his family had a soft spot for Il Duce.


  26. Da_Beerfreak
    26 | January 10, 2013 11:15 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    The Left has a militias view of the right to gun ownership.

    I don’t think that word means what they think it means…

    “I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials.”

    George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788


  27. Da_Beerfreak
    27 | January 10, 2013 11:16 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    I think she was lying again…


  28. buzzsawmonkey
    28 | January 10, 2013 11:17 am

    Rodan wrote:

    All the focus on College Education has been a huge mistake.

    If you mean that the focus on funneling kids who are not college material into college to get watered-down degrees has been a huge social mistake, I agree with you, on a number of scores.

    What I was referring to, however, was the way that conservative America has permitted the Left to wholly own academia. There have always been leftist professors, there always will be—but the ideological capture of the universities by the Left over the last 40 years while conservatives have been sleeping has been a disaster. Colleges and universities are no longer institutions of learning; they are leftist-apparatchik finishing schools.


  29. Da_Beerfreak
    29 | January 10, 2013 11:18 am

    @ Rodan:
    Damn near all high ranking D’Rats are. :evil:


  30. buzzsawmonkey
    30 | January 10, 2013 11:19 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    I don’t think that word means what they think it means…

    I like the Mason quote, though I was only going for the cheap pun between “militias” and “malicious.”


  31. 31 | January 10, 2013 11:20 am

    @ Rodan:

    What disturbs me the most in ALL of this is that the NRA and GOA are out there taking the heat for this alone – No backbone (not that I really expected any) from the Republicans that this is an outright assault on the rights of the people under the Second Amendment. The House if nothing else should fire a warning shot to Obama that if he attempts to circumvent the rights secured under the Second Amendment via Executive Order, it will be considered grounds for impeachment.

    I know….in a “perfect world”…..


  32. 32 | January 10, 2013 11:21 am

    @ Rodan:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if they had an autographed PHOTO handed down as an heirloom.


  33. 33 | January 10, 2013 11:21 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Conservatives fought the culture war wrong. They thought having politicians play the role of preachers was the answer. The Left took over institutions from the ground up. They did it silently. Progressives are like Akitas, Conservatives are like Chihuhas.


  34. lobo91
    34 | January 10, 2013 11:22 am

    @ Rodan:

    One objective is to drive a wedge between the NRA’s policy agenda and the views of a majority of its members, activists said. Mayors Against Illegal Guns commissioned a study last year by Republican pollster Frank Luntz that found that 74 percent of NRA members support requiring criminal background checks for anyone purchasing a gun.

    “This isn’t a battle about going dollar for dollar with the NRA,” said Winnie Stachelberg, executive vice president at the Center for American Progress. “It’s about drawing attention to the fact that the NRA officials and lobbyists and the NRA membership are in completely different places. Exposing that gap is a critical component of that effort.”

    If there’s such a big gap between the NRA’s positions and those of the membership, why are 8,000 people a day joining?


  35. 35 | January 10, 2013 11:22 am

    @ Rodan:

    I don’t think Obama’s going to be able to work his magic here. Roughly half the population owns guns, and a good chunk of those who don’t onw guns today believe that they have the right to own them if they want to. He will get the bi-coastal urban centers that he always gets, but he’ll lose the rest of the country. And in 2014 we may have a very different looking Senate because of it.


  36. Da_Beerfreak
    36 | January 10, 2013 11:23 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Missed that the first time through. :oops:


  37. Daffy Duck
    37 | January 10, 2013 11:23 am

    Long read, but pertinent to the discussion:

    http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2013/01/07/bracken-dear-mr-security-agent/

    Hat tip to Ann Barnhardt.

    Molon Labe, indeed.


  38. heysoos
    38 | January 10, 2013 11:24 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Conservatives fought the culture war wrong. They thought having politicians play the role of preachers was the answer. The Left took over institutions from the ground up. They did it silently. Progressives are like Akitas, Conservatives are like Chihuhas.

    the role of preachers, you got that exactly right…it’s a huge turn off for me…the party is supposed to govern, not rationalize their private internal beliefs….religion and politics do not mix


  39. 39 | January 10, 2013 11:24 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    The Republican Party is just an extension of the Democrats. They play the role of Conservatives, but do it in a strawman way (See Bachman and Santorum). They will roll over on Guns and the Debt Ceiling. We are staring at a Permanent Democrat control over our government.


  40. 40 | January 10, 2013 11:25 am

    @ lobo91:

    They are inventing a narrative. The goal is to fool the public and marginalize the NRA.


  41. Daffy Duck
    41 | January 10, 2013 11:26 am

    lobo91 wrote:

    “It’s about drawing attention to the fact that the NRA officials and lobbyists and the NRA membership are in completely different places. Exposing that gap is a critical component of that effort.”

    Ah, the old wedge strategy…It’ll probably work, too.


  42. buzzsawmonkey
    42 | January 10, 2013 11:26 am

    Rodan wrote:

    The Left took over institutions from the ground up. They did it silently.

    Leftists are hermit crabs, moving into existing shells and taking them over.


  43. 43 | January 10, 2013 11:26 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    We’re going to see where the Republicans really stand here. If they back down over this, then they are useless and it is time for a new party, even if that means ceeding the next election cycle to the Democrats. Because what difference will it make? As I always say, I am about policy, not who gets the nicest office in the Senate Office building. If the Republicans won’t back me on policy this intrinsic to what they claim to stand for, then there is no purpose in voting for them.


  44. 44 | January 10, 2013 11:26 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    You are more optimistic than me.


  45. buzzsawmonkey
    45 | January 10, 2013 11:26 am

    Rodan wrote:

    They are inventing a narrative. The goal is to fool the public and marginalize the NRA.

    An “NRAtive,” so to speak…


  46. Daffy Duck
    46 | January 10, 2013 11:27 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Leftists are hermit crabs, moving into existing shells and taking them over.

    More like locusts, I think.


  47. 47 | January 10, 2013 11:27 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:
    We’re going to see where the Republicans really stand here. If they back down over this, then they are useless and it is time for a new party, even if that means ceeding the next election cycle to the Democrats. Because what difference will it make? As I always say, I am about policy, not who gets the nicest office in the Senate Office building. If the Republicans won’t back me on policy this intrinsic to what they claim to stand for, then there is no purpose in voting for them.

    Welcome to the club!

    This is the defeining issue for the GOP. If they cave, they are done as a party.


  48. heysoos
    48 | January 10, 2013 11:28 am

    Ann Coulter blows up some of the propaganda…
    http://www.humanevents.com/2013/01/09/coulter-doing-the-research-the-new-york-times-wont-do/


  49. 49 | January 10, 2013 11:29 am

    @ heysoos:

    That is why I am convinced the GOP is a false flag operation. They played into the stereotype the Left created for them. They lectured and preached how evil society is and they can create some Utopia. That turned people off.


  50. 50 | January 10, 2013 11:30 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Yup.


  51. Da_Beerfreak
    51 | January 10, 2013 11:32 am

    Daffy Duck wrote:

    Ah, the old wedge strategy…It’ll probably work, too.

    It worked damn well in 1860…


  52. buzzsawmonkey
    52 | January 10, 2013 11:33 am

    Daffy Duck wrote:

    More like locusts, I think.

    A useful metaphor, too. But the Left’s takeover of institutions—even their own—is a hermit crab behavior.

    Take “civil rights” and pervert them into “human rights.” Take “freedom” and pervert it into “entitlement.” Take “due process” and pervert it into “equality of result.”

    The Civil Rights Movement was, initially, about civil rights; regaining/protecting the votes of the improperly disenfranchised. The Left hermit-crabbed the movement after the Voting Rights Act was passed, and made it about “human rights” gimmes. The gay-rights movement has been hermit-crabbing the (human-rights perverted) Civil Rights Movement for forty years; it is now poised to destroy the First and Tenth Amendments. The Islamist movement is hermit-crabbing the gay-rights movement.

    The Left hermit-crabbed “academic freedom” to make the universities Leftist indoctrination enclaves. It hermit-crabbed the public school system for the same purpose.


  53. The Osprey
    53 | January 10, 2013 11:33 am

    Urban-ERT Slings, LLC statement on STANDARD CAPACITY AR-15 Magazine shortage.

    Truly awesome. These guys deserve our business.


  54. buzzsawmonkey
    54 | January 10, 2013 11:34 am

    Daffy Duck wrote:

    Ah, the old wedge strategy

    Conservatives need a wedgie strategy.


  55. 55 | January 10, 2013 11:34 am

    @ heysoos:

    Piss Morgan got his ass handed to him when he was fact-checked by a Fox affiliate as well.


  56. 56 | January 10, 2013 11:36 am

    @ Rodan:

    Some maybe, not all. Like Boehner, who apparently forgot the conservatives that handed him his Speakership – he’s been doing everything he can to marginalize the TEA Party. I’ve never been a fan of third parties, but if these clowns can’t even remember as far back as the election of 2006, when they had their asses handed to them by conservatives who refused to play ball with their liberal spending, then by all means, it’s time to go another way.


  57. 57 | January 10, 2013 11:37 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Thomas Sowell’s “Visions of the Annointed” sheds light on the blueprint of how they did it.


  58. 58 | January 10, 2013 11:40 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Thomas Sowell’s “Visions of the Annointed” sheds light on the blueprint of how they did it.

    That was one of the most illuminating books I’ve ever read and it expanded my vocabulary like William F Buckley used to when I was a kid.


  59. CynicalConservative
    59 | January 10, 2013 11:41 am

    The Osprey wrote:

    Urban-ERT Slings, LLC statement on STANDARD CAPACITY AR-15 Magazine shortage.
    Truly awesome. These guys deserve our business.

    The Options list is awesome…

    /galt


  60. 60 | January 10, 2013 11:42 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Thomas Sowell has in many ways inherited the Buckley mantle for me. He enlightens, he educates, and he can explain the most intricate position with plain language. How could anyone not be in awe of this man.

    (The cretin Jason Whitless notwithstanding – who probably couldn’t get past the “Acknowledgements” in one of Sowell’s books).


  61. 61 | January 10, 2013 11:42 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    I want a new Party, I’m practically done with the GOP.


  62. buzzsawmonkey
    62 | January 10, 2013 11:45 am

    Fun, fun, fun on campus:

    Conservative students at Princeton denounce the campus’s “hookup culture,” are promptly verbally attacked and threatened.

    Since publication, both authors have been attacked online with invectives such as “retarded,” “drunk,” and “woman-hating.”

    University of Missouri offers course on “Sibling Incest.”

    The official description says the course will focus on “the way incest functions to establish or to upset identity in the context of national, religious, racial, and familial structures.”


  63. Daffy Duck
    63 | January 10, 2013 11:45 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Oh, I also agree with your assessment too, buzz. My locusts reference is to the opinion that they (leftists / perpetual revolutionaries) can only operate until they’ve destroyed the host*, then they peter out.

    *so, maybe ‘virus’ would be another analogy.


  64. 64 | January 10, 2013 11:49 am

    @ Rodan:

    I’m surprised that we aren’t all bald from tearing our hair out over these people. Mark Levin did make a good point on his show the other night. He said we need to find ONE good conservative and back them. Of course the pickings were slim in the last go-round, but he’s right in that you can’t have five individuals, none of whom on first face having national appeal, all attacking each other and one RINO and think somehow you’re going to get the Reagan second coming when the dust settles. The question is who – Santorum and Bachmann screwed up everything by being bad candidates and staying on stage for too long. I really, really liked Rick Perry and I really liked Herman Cain, but those two were flawed as well.

    What really irks me is that we’re told “you can’t run conservatives – you’ll lose!” Uh, the last real conservative we ran was Reagan – he WON. Everything after that has been a mushy middle RINO.


  65. Daffy Duck
    65 | January 10, 2013 11:49 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Examples of 1st link: leftist “tolerance” for other views, and 2nd link: incrementalism.

    Very illustrative to the topic of this thread, too:

    “We only want to ban some guns,” but through incrementalism, it will be registration => confiscation => extermination.

    Not for this cat.


  66. 66 | January 10, 2013 11:50 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    That’s an illustration of what I mean. The 1st one about the hook up culture is just dumb. Who cares? The 2nd one is what Conservatives should be aiming at. That is where the Right goes wrong. They go after a stupid subject liking hooking up which allows the Left to get away with something sinister like incest.


  67. 67 | January 10, 2013 11:50 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    They should just name the course “Perv 101.” They’ll be getting standing room only.


  68. 68 | January 10, 2013 11:55 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    The problem is there is no Conservative out there that can unite everyone. I believe in Individualism, Economic Freedom and a Non Nation Buidling Foreign policy. Rand Paul is the only who reprenset me. But becasue of his father many Conservatives hate him and do not listen to what he has to say.


  69. 69 | January 10, 2013 11:57 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Everything after that has been a mushy middle RINO.

    The funny part is that Bush I, Dole, Bush II, McCain and Romney were all centrists. They got tag as Conservative becasue they used red meat rhetocic on social issues to get the nomination. This hurt them in the general elections.


  70. 70 | January 10, 2013 11:57 am

    @ Rodan:

    It’s problematic, to say the least. Which is why he needs lay the base in the next four years to distance himself – there’s validity in the old saying “the sins of the fathers…”


  71. 71 | January 10, 2013 11:58 am

    This is what I am talking about. This is the type of resistance we need to see right now:

    Wyoming lawmakers have proposed a new bill that, if passed, would nullify any federal restrictions on guns, threatening to jail federal agents attempting to confiscate guns, ammunition magazines or ammunition.

    The bill – HB0104 – states that “any federal law which attempts to ban a semi-automatic firearm or to limit the size of a magazine of a firearm or other limitation on firearms in this state shall be unenforceable in Wyoming.”

    The bill is sponsored by eight Wyoming state representatives ad two state senators. If passed, the bill would declare any federal gun regulation created on or after January 1, 2013 to be unenforceable within the state.

    In addition, the bill states would charge federal officials attempting to enforce a federal gun law within the state with a felony – “subject to imprisonment for not more less than one (1) year and one (1) day or more than five (5) years, a fine of not more than two thousand dollars ($2,000.00) five thousand dollars ($5,000.00), or both.”

    I hope this passes. I don’t know what its chances are. I’d like to see something like this out of my State. We have a Republican Supermajority in the House and Senate, and a Republican governor. If they can’t do something like this, there is something wrong.


  72. lobo91
    72 | January 10, 2013 12:00 pm

    More lies from–big surprise–Bloomberg News (yes, owned by that Bloomberg):

    Guns-for-Sale Websites Show Ease of Acquiring Firearms

    Online gun sellers are facing greater scrutiny after the second-deadliest shooting in U.S. history, spurring a nationwide debate and proposals to limit the availability of firearms.

    Among them is Armslist LLC, an Oklahoma-based online gun marketplace, which is being sued for wrongful death by the family of Jitka Vesel, whose killer shot her as many as a dozen times with a weapon advertised on the site.

    The lawsuit came two days before the Newtown, Connecticut, massacre that left 28 dead, including the gunman, his mother and 20 children at Sandy Hook Elementary School. It was the latest mass shooting in a deadly year, following an attack in a Colorado movie theater that killed 12 and wounded 58, and another at a Wisconsin Sikh temple that left six dead.

    “Under current law, there’s a gaping Internet loophole which enables gun websites to facilitate illegal gun sales that result in gun crimes and gun deaths,” said Jonathan Lowy, director of the Legal Action Project at the Washington-based Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and a lawyer representing Vesel’s family. “Felons, the dangerously mentally ill and domestic-violence abusers can buy guns no questions asked.”

    What this hit piece fails to mention is that the only way a prohibited buyer could actually purchase a gun through a site like this is by doing so face-to-face with a local seller. In other words, the same way you would using a newspaper classified ad, or Craigslist.

    The clear implication is that buying guns online is no different than using Amazon or eBay, where the merchandise shows up at your door via UPS or FedEx. That is absolutely not the case, because those shippers won’t deliver guns to people’s homes. They only ship to licensed dealers, who are required to do the same background check paperwork as they would for any other sale.


  73. 73 | January 10, 2013 12:01 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    It’s problematic, to say the least. Which is why he needs lay the base in the next four years to distance himself — there’s validity in the old saying “the sins of the fathers…”

    The sad part is, he’s the only Republican standing up to Islamic interest right now. He wants to cut off aid to Islamic nations. The rest of the GOP is itching to get us involved in Syria to help Al-Qaeda. The GOP’s stance on foreign policy really turns me off.


  74. 74 | January 10, 2013 12:02 pm

    @ Rodan:

    What would help is if you can find a Socially Conservative issue that really was shared by most of the population. I don’t know how hard that would be – maybe gun control would be it – something that the libturds cannot get onboard with but the rest of the country would rally behind.

    Obama and the media are going to set out to demonize gun owners like the did smokers. They will attempt to do this like the did with the whole “second hand smoke kills people” nonsense, meaning they’ll attempt to make up stuff to get their point across.

    Unfortunately for them, there are REAL statistics to back up the position that gun control laws do NOT work.


  75. 75 | January 10, 2013 12:02 pm

    @ lobo91:

    It’s about creating a false narrative.


  76. lobo91
    76 | January 10, 2013 12:04 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    It’s about creating a false narrative.

    Even the majority of gun owners have probably never tried to buy a gun through a website, so they probably have no idea that it’s a completely bogus story.


  77. 77 | January 10, 2013 12:05 pm

    @ lobo91:

    That’s precisely how it works. They must be shipped to an FLA in your area and you go there and fill out your state paperwork. I purchased a gun in person at Cabellas in Reno and because I was not a resident of the State of Nevada, the gun had to be shipped to my FLA in Milpitas for pickup.


  78. The Osprey
    78 | January 10, 2013 12:06 pm

    If there’s any Republican who is on my short list for 2016 (and I think it’s a bit early for that now) is Ted Cruz, the new Senator from Texas.

    If Obama can go from the Senate to the Presidency in just one term, why not Ted Cruz?


  79. 79 | January 10, 2013 12:06 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    What would help is if you can find a Socially Conservative issue that really was shared by most of the population.

    This is where I split with many on the Right. I do not think the government can fix societal ills. They can create them, but government is not the answer. What you can do is stop financially rewarding bad behavior. That would go along way. But most of the battle needs to be fought at the local level. That’s where social issues should be addressed.

    As for Guns, that’s a Civil Right.


  80. 80 | January 10, 2013 12:07 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I would never even want to buy a gun online. I want to look at a gun before I buy.


  81. buzzsawmonkey
    81 | January 10, 2013 12:09 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    If Obama can go from the Senate to the Presidency in just one term, why not Ted Cruz?

    Well, has Ted Cruz been groomed for the role of conservative mouthpiece from his youth? Does he have a powerful (and powerfully corrupt) political machine in back of him, aided by an adulatory national press corps and a phalanx of big-name academics? Does he have an utterly unprincipled phalanx of campaign workers? Does he have the shadowy backing of a multibillionaire? Is he willing to accept illegal foreign campaign donations? Does he have a grassroots network of vote-fraud perpetrators nationwide?

    If so, he’s a shoo-in.


  82. lobo91
    82 | January 10, 2013 12:10 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    I would never even want to buy a gun online. I want to look at a gun before I buy.

    Most of the guns sold online are new, sold by FFL dealers. Sometimes it’s a good way to get something that’s not available locally for whatever reason, but that’s about it. By the time you include shipping and transfer fees, you probably won’t save much.


  83. heysoos
    83 | January 10, 2013 12:12 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    If there’s any Republican who is on my short list for 2016 (and I think it’s a bit early for that now) is Ted Cruz, the new Senator from Texas.
    If Obama can go from the Senate to the Presidency in just one term, why not Ted Cruz?

    yup, that’s the new paradigm…and I don’t like it…for once I’d like to see a young hotshot come up from a few terms in the House where presumably you learn to govern….that’s why I like Ryan


  84. 84 | January 10, 2013 12:12 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Yup, this is just another strawman argument by the Left.


  85. unclassifiable
    85 | January 10, 2013 12:12 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    He wouldn’t be someone I would vote for if he had all that.

    Then again I did vote for the loser of the last two presidential elections.

    This monkey (me) is confused.


  86. 86 | January 10, 2013 12:13 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Checking through the comments – EVERY ONE I’ve read so far has called this article pure and simple BS propaganda.


  87. lobo91
    87 | January 10, 2013 12:15 pm

    @ Rodan:

    The whole “gun show loophole” thing irritates me, too. 75% of the guns sold at shows are sold by FFL dealers, not private parties. Why? Because it’s not worth it to pay $60-100 to rent a table for the weekend in order to sell a gun or two.

    Guns sold by licensed dealers at gun shows are processed exactly the same way they are from their regular storefront in all 50 states. It’s federal law.


  88. lobo91
    88 | January 10, 2013 12:18 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    Checking through the comments — EVERY ONE I’ve read so far has called this article pure and simple BS propaganda.

    The lawsuit mentioned in it is apparently real, but it’s also based on a pretty rare case. It sounds like someone used the site to find a used gun offered by a private party that was located within driving distance. In other words, it was no different than a classified ad in a newspaper.


  89. heysoos
    89 | January 10, 2013 12:19 pm

    here’s Ted Cruz…seems pretty well grounded and he ain’t giving in
    http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/firstreading/entries/2013/01/10/cruz_returns_to_america.html/


  90. 90 | January 10, 2013 12:21 pm

    @ heysoos:

    Cruz is amazing. He will not back down and articulates conservatism as well as anyone since Reagan. He was Attorney General of Texas as well, I believe, so he’s certainly not a newbie to the political arena. Plus, unlike Obama – he actually worked when he held office.


  91. 91 | January 10, 2013 12:21 pm

    @ lobo91:

    What they want to do is make it illegal for private individuals to sell guns. It’ll still happen, of course, but they will have a law on the books, and people will be a little more wary. It is all about incrementalism with the Left. They take the long view. They want to take away our freedom, and they don’t care if it takes them a little longer to do it. They are patient. We have to learn from that. We should be talking about rolling back some of this Constitutionally questionable legislation, but the GOP doesn’t really want to.


  92. Da_Beerfreak
    92 | January 10, 2013 12:22 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    If there’s any Republican who is on my short list for 2016 (and I think it’s a bit early for that now) is Ted Cruz, the new Senator from Texas.

    If Obama can go from the Senate to the Presidency in just one term, why not Ted Cruz?

    Why do Folks always want to strip the few Folks with talent out of Congress. We need to keep the talented Folks in Congress so they can be the future Leaders. I would rather see Ted Cruz replace Dingy Harry than be wasted on a run for the White House.


  93. 93 | January 10, 2013 12:22 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    it was no different than a classified ad in a newspaper.

    Which would make it a legal transaction. For now.


  94. lobo91
    94 | January 10, 2013 12:22 pm

    The nonsense about online ammunition sales is another red herring.

    The idea that a minimum wage clerk at WalMart is going to provide some added layer of security that you don’t get online is ludicrous.

    Of course, that didn’t stop California from banning it. Now, they’re talking about requiring background checks to buy ammo in stores.


  95. The Osprey
    95 | January 10, 2013 12:23 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    You’ve got a good point there…


  96. unclassifiable
    96 | January 10, 2013 12:24 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    It only leads me to beleive that once again we are not seeing a cross-section of the electorate but an echo chamber.

    I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that Obama won the election and yet we are to beleive that some significant portion of the folks that voted for him are against him on gun control.


  97. lobo91
    97 | January 10, 2013 12:24 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    it was no different than a classified ad in a newspaper.

    Which would make it a legal transaction. For now.

    In most states.

    There are a few where private sales have to go through an FFL already (California, for one).


  98. heysoos
    98 | January 10, 2013 12:24 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Cruz is amazing. He will not back down and articulates conservatism as well as anyone since Reagan. He was Attorney General of Texas as well, I believe, so he’s certainly not a newbie to the political arena. Plus, unlike Obama — he actually worked when he held office.

    good enough for me…I’m starting from scratch and I’m less concerned about a platform than I am about principle and honesty…nobody is perfect and people disagree, but like I’ve said before, I’d rather deal with Al Capone…at least you could take him at his word…that’s how pathetic I see government


  99. unclassifiable
    99 | January 10, 2013 12:26 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    Harder to do but far more effective in the end…

    …which I may not see due to the amount of time it may take.

    But the walk of a thousand miles still has to begin with the first step.


  100. 100 | January 10, 2013 12:26 pm

    The NRA has signed up 100,000 new members in the last 18 days:

    The National Rifle Association has gained more than 100,000 new members in the last 18 days, the organization told POLITICO’s Playbook on Thursday.

    The number of paid new members jumped from 4.1 million to 4.2 million in that time frame.

    Continue Reading Text Size
    – + reset

    Latest on POLITICO
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    Poll: Booker crushing Lautenberg
    Big donors hope to match NRA
    ‘Rumsfeld’s Rules’ on its way
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    (Also on POLITICO: Expectations low for Biden, NRA talks)

    “Our goal is to get to 5 million before this debate is over,” the NRA told POLITICO’s Mike Allen.

    [snip]

    “We are willing to talk to policymakers about any reasonable proposals and plans,” an NRA official said in the Playbook report, regarding the upcoming meeting with Biden. “However, the NRA is hearing not just from Beltway elites and the chattering class, but real Americans all over the country that are hoping the NRA is not going to compromise on any of the principles of the Second Amendment, nor are we going to support banning guns. But we’re willing to listen.”

    I hope they do hit the 5 million mark.


  101. The Osprey
    101 | January 10, 2013 12:30 pm

    NRA-ILA list of non-profits and businesses that support gun control.

    STARVE THE BEAST.


  102. Buffalobob
    102 | January 10, 2013 12:30 pm

    Cumo? isn’t he the guy that changed NY law allowing him to be el duchbag of NYC?


  103. 103 | January 10, 2013 12:31 pm

    @ unclassifiable:

    Obama never really talked about gun control during the runup to the 2012 election, just as he didn’t tell people how much their taxes would be going up on January 1st. The whole theme for the Obama campaign was that Romney would make the middle class pay for the debt, not the rich, and would take your birth control away. The media lapped it up and played right along. And Romney, like a dunce, never mounted a serious challenge to that view. No one, but no one, talked about gun control.

    And Joe Biden, in the 2008 election, told people flat out that Obama wasn’t coming after your guns. Of course, now that he’s re-elected, he doesn’t give a crap about the opinions of the people who voted for him and his real agenda will be made manifest. He now has NOTHING to lose. What he hadn’t really counted on was that he’d have to deal with a Republican House. But that’s just a “bump in the road.”


  104. unclassifiable
    104 | January 10, 2013 12:32 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:
    @ heysoos:
    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    One thing I observed about Cruz during a Tea Party straw poll last year (seems like decades ago) is that he is not a very engaging person. Many candidates are out there slapping backs and mingling and he is seemingly working on his speech (which was very good).

    This was a brief observation but I thought it was noteable.

    Full disclosure — I voted for him.


  105. 105 | January 10, 2013 12:33 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    What he hadn’t really counted on was that he’d have to deal with a Republican House.

    We’ll see what he does with Executive Orders. I don’t really trust the Roberts Court to void unconstitutional orders from this President, and there’s no way we could overturn them Legislatively.


  106. lobo91
    106 | January 10, 2013 12:34 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    If anyone wants to join, here’s a link that will save you $10 on an annual membership.


  107. 107 | January 10, 2013 12:36 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I’ve been a life member for about 20 years, but thanks for the link.


  108. Da_Beerfreak
    108 | January 10, 2013 12:36 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    You’ve got a good point there…

    It’s one of my pet peeves. Everyone complains about the piss poor leadership in the Congress on one hand and than on the other they want to take the talented ones out and run them for President. That’s not going to build the talent pool in the Congress where it is needed most.


  109. unclassifiable
    109 | January 10, 2013 12:37 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Well I guess that goes to that “low information voter” thing again (much like the whining about the ending of the payroll tax holiday).

    And that becomes the crux. Is the hatred of the increase in taxes and gun control going to overcome the visceral hatred folks have for conservatives?


  110. lobo91
    110 | January 10, 2013 12:38 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    I’ve been a life member for about 20 years, but thanks for the link.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I’m an NRA recruiter, and that link goes through my account :)


  111. heysoos
    111 | January 10, 2013 12:39 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:
    What he hadn’t really counted on was that he’d have to deal with a Republican House.
    We’ll see what he does with Executive Orders. I don’t really trust the Roberts Court to void unconstitutional orders from this President, and there’s no way we could overturn them Legislatively.

    I consider it my civic duty to ignore any EO and denounce it vigorously…I won’t tolerate that sort of bullshit, treat me like a goat at your own risk amigo


  112. unclassifiable
    112 | January 10, 2013 12:39 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    The other thing was tha gun sales did explode after Obama’s FIRST presidential election so someone had an inkling he was going to do it.


  113. 113 | January 10, 2013 12:40 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    I’m still pissed that the HOUSE hasn’t said anything about this.


  114. 114 | January 10, 2013 12:41 pm

    @ unclassifiable:

    I don’ tknow, but the last time the Democrats passed a gun control bill they lost both the House and Senate. And that was before Heller and McDonald. Obama may not care about that, thugh. The leislature is, to him, an anachronism. It was a useful stepping-stone to his current position, but what he really wants is to be dictator.


  115. heysoos
    115 | January 10, 2013 12:43 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    I’m still pissed that the HOUSE hasn’t said anything about this.

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    I’m still pissed that the HOUSE hasn’t said anything about this.

    yeah, every time some stupid fearmongering donk opens their mouth the GOP should pounce like rabid sharks…every time…they have to get in front of this stuff


  116. buzzsawmonkey
    116 | January 10, 2013 12:44 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    I’m still pissed that the HOUSE hasn’t said anything about this.

    John Boehner’s too busy popping salt tablets in preparation for the next weeping bout.


  117. 117 | January 10, 2013 12:44 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    I am too. Boehner needs to step up to the plate. As I’ve said a number of times, if the Republicans won’t stand with us on this, there’s not much point in voting for Republicans. This is a make or break issue, and the House is totally absent. Did you see the link I posted on where Wyoming may make it a felony to enforce these laws? That is what we have to look to. It is the place of the States to defend us from a tyrannical Federal Government. James Madison discusses this in Federalist No.46 briefly. I know that’s not much help to you out in California, but we’ll see what my own State does with this.


  118. heysoos
    118 | January 10, 2013 12:47 pm

    in football, you never, ever let a receiver get behind you….and if they do you can assume they will score EVERY time…and the GOP db’s are getting burned with amazing ease and regularity…this absolutely has to stop…one thing the GOP can do on the cheap is bitch, loud and often…mock the fuckers senseless


  119. Da_Beerfreak
    119 | January 10, 2013 12:48 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    What he hadn’t really counted on was that he’d have to deal with a Republican House.

    We’ll see what he does with Executive Orders. I don’t really trust the Roberts Court to void unconstitutional orders from this President, and there’s no way we could overturn them Legislatively.

    Our last firewall for freedom will have to be the States, and I’m not counting on any help coming from the blue ones…


  120. heysoos
    120 | January 10, 2013 12:50 pm

    Wyoming, the Cowboy State is doing exactly the right thing…win or lose it is a very savvy strategy…it’s definitely a black eye


  121. Da_Beerfreak
    121 | January 10, 2013 12:51 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    I’ve been a life member for about 20 years, but thanks for the link.

    In the interest of full disclosure, I’m an NRA recruiter, and that link goes through my account

    I’d help you out if I could, but I’m a lifer too… :wink:


  122. 122 | January 10, 2013 12:51 pm

    @ unclassifiable:

    Yes, they sure did. And the media played up the racist gun culture for doing so. But you also have to remember the media NEVER made mention prior to the election of Obama’s radical views – we heard about them only because of Fox News and talk radio – the only time you saw it was when the media could not ignore the disgusting statements of Reverend Wright – and even then they only gave it slight notice. And goodness knows that fool McCain didn’t have the sense to bring it up.

    Fast and Furious was their back door to getting gun control legislation. Unfortunately it blew up in their faces. Which is why I’m sure they mentally celebrated Newtown. They finally had the horrible tragedy they needed to push the agenda. That’s why I was so angry about the phoney “tear” that the Jackass wiped away from his eye during the press conference.


  123. lobo91
    123 | January 10, 2013 12:55 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Fast and Furious was their back door to getting gun control legislation. Unfortunately it blew up in their faces. Which is why I’m sure they mentally celebrated Newtown.

    I’m fairly certain that they actually celebrated.


  124. 124 | January 10, 2013 12:56 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Truthfully, I agree with you – it just sickens me to believe that about a Pissident and his administration.


  125. unclassifiable
    125 | January 10, 2013 12:56 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:
    @ Iron Fist:

    OK So here is my low information voter moment.

    I always thought Executive Orders were stop gap measures in liue of any applicable federal law. I always thought all government actions were subject to the law of the land (i.e. the Constitution or the United States Code).

    And in the case of an Executive Order if Congress passes a law to countermand it (and probably overrides a veto) then isn’t effectively dead (the EO that is)?


  126. heysoos
    126 | January 10, 2013 12:57 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ unclassifiable:
    Yes, they sure did. And the media played up the racist gun culture for doing so. But you also have to remember the media NEVER made mention prior to the election of Obama’s radical views — we heard about them only because of Fox News and talk radio — the only time you saw it was when the media could not ignore the disgusting statements of Reverend Wright — and even then they only gave it slight notice. And goodness knows that fool McCain didn’t have the sense to bring it up.
    Fast and Furious was their back door to getting gun control legislation. Unfortunately it blew up in their faces. Which is why I’m sure they mentally celebrated Newtown. They finally had the horrible tragedy they needed to push the agenda. That’s why I was so angry about the phoney “tear” that the Jackass wiped away from his eye during the press conference.

    I’m pretty sure you won’t be invited to the Speaker Re-election Ball


  127. buzzsawmonkey
    127 | January 10, 2013 1:00 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    I always thought all government actions were subject to the law of the land (i.e. the Constitution or the United States Code).

    That was before the advent of the Lightworker. Now, all government actions are subject to nothing save the Whim of Obama.


  128. 128 | January 10, 2013 1:00 pm

    @ unclassifiable:

    Nothing low-information about that at all – most people don’t know how it works – you have it right. Congress can pass a law countermanding any EO on the books. Obama’s safe here because he’s got a Democrat Senate that won’t countermand his orders and the Republican majority in the House isn’t veto proof. However, EO’s can be sued against in the courts and injunctions issued to stop them from taking effect.

    Now, of course, if this President was named Richard Nixon and pulled this stuff, we’d already be watching the impeachment proceedings on CSPAN.


  129. 129 | January 10, 2013 1:00 pm

    @ heysoos:

    No doubt. I think I’m already off the Christmas Card list.


  130. lobo91
    130 | January 10, 2013 1:01 pm

    @ unclassifiable:

    The actual purpose of Executive Orders is to allow the president to issue instructions to executive branch agencies on how to do something. For example, Truman issued an Executive Order desegregating the military, which was clearly within his authority.

    If Congress wants to reverse an EO, it can pass a law that countermands the substance of it. Of course, it would have to be signed by the president, so the only way to actually do it is to pass the law with a veto-proof majority in both houses.

    They can also be voided by the courts, if they’re found to be unconstitutional.


  131. buzzsawmonkey
    131 | January 10, 2013 1:02 pm

    We’re not hearing much at the moment from Obama’s fellow Chicago gun-grabber Pfather Pfleger. Is Pfather Pfleger pshowing the white pfeather?


  132. lobo91
    132 | January 10, 2013 1:08 pm

    Gabrielle Giffords PAC Hopes To Raise $20 Million To Protect Candidates From NRA Attacks…

    A new political action committee led by former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) hopes to match the National Rifle Association (NRA) by raising some $20 million ahead of the 2014 elections, the group’s treasurer said Wednesday.

    “We are going to provide support and backing for candidates in U.S. Congress and U.S. Senate races that are attacked by the NRA for taking moderate positions on common-sense gun-safety issues,” said Steve Mostyn, the Houston trial lawyer tabbed by Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly, to handle the group’s finances, in an interview with Reuters. “We will also field candidates.”

    Mostyn says that in the aftermath of the Newtown, Conn., shooting that left 26 dead, including 20 children, the committee has seen encouraging fundraising results. The group raised $400,000 in small donations on the day it launched, Jan. 8, which also marked the second anniversary of the assassination attempt on Giffords’s life that left her gravely injured and six dead. Mostyn and his wife donated an additional million dollars.


  133. 133 | January 10, 2013 1:11 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Good luck with that Gabby – the NRA will match ever dollar you raise by four. Call me when your endorsement is as sought after as the NRA’s. Or even Sarah Palin’s.


  134. lobo91
    134 | January 10, 2013 1:11 pm

    Piers Morgan: “Decent, Civilized Americans” Share My Anti-Gun Views…

    “I just don’t believe that the majority of decent, civilized Americans do not share my view,that something has to give.”


  135. 135 | January 10, 2013 1:12 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    I was really hoping we’d found a way to excommunicate that Pf—er.


  136. rain of lead
    136 | January 10, 2013 1:13 pm

    Heh, the NRA announced that they have received 100,000. New memberships in the last 18 days. A membership is 25 dollars


  137. Moe Katz
    137 | January 10, 2013 1:13 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:
    CG, is that a moonshine still beside the woman in your avatar?


  138. lobo91
    138 | January 10, 2013 1:14 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    100,000 new members x $35 (or the discounted $25 rate) comes out to somewhere between $2.5 and $3.5 million just in the past 18 days.


  139. 139 | January 10, 2013 1:15 pm

    @ lobo91:

    In other news, he probably believes in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, there being a recent movie featuring them and all….

    Piss is like Obama, pulling statistics out of his ass. He got fact checked by a Fox station in Cincinnati. He claimed 11,000 gun deaths last year in America – less than 8,000 that were not victim or LEO justified. Also claimed only 11 gun homicides in Britain. Over 35.


  140. 140 | January 10, 2013 1:16 pm

    @ Moe Katz:

    Absolutely. Tobacco and Moonshine, the chief exports. Oh, and Final Four teams.


  141. lobo91
    141 | January 10, 2013 1:16 pm

    rain of lead wrote:

    Heh, the NRA announced that they have received 100,000. New memberships in the last 18 days. A membership is 25 dollars

    And, more importantly, that money came from ordinary Americans, not a handful of left-wing millionaires.


  142. 142 | January 10, 2013 1:16 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    And in the case of an Executive Order if Congress passes a law to countermand it (and probably overrides a veto) then isn’t effectively dead (the EO that is)?

    They have to be able to override the veto, but yes, that would do it. Also, the Supreme Court can nullify an Executive Order, but I don’t trust John Roberts to do that in this case. Also, the Courts take years to operate. I am afraid that Obama will move quickly on this. With Sandy Hook he thought he had an oppertune moment to move. A similar massacre in Britain was all it took for the British to allow themselves to be disarmed. But Americans aren’t British. People aren’t buying guns in record numbers today to turn them in tomorrow when Obama decrees that they should. It is going to be very interesting to see what he does from here. The mood of the nation isn’t with him on this. I don’t know that he cares about that anymore, though.


  143. Moe Katz
    143 | January 10, 2013 1:17 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:
    :)


  144. AZfederalist
    144 | January 10, 2013 1:17 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    This is the conseuqnces of not having a serious opposition. The DEmocrats have complete defacto power in the country.

    Would also include the fact that most of the MSM are democrats and report accordingly. It’s hard for an opposition party to get its message out when the other party controls the media and thus the narrative. Add the fact the dems also control the education industry and entertainment industry and you have a formidable challenge to overcome.


  145. lobo91
    145 | January 10, 2013 1:18 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    How many people were stabbed or bludgeoned to death in the UK?

    I don’t think the dead really care what the means was…


  146. 146 | January 10, 2013 1:18 pm

    Oh, here we go:

    Carney: “Deficit Reduction Not a Worthy Goal.”

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/01/10/carney-deficit-reduction-is-not-a-worthy-goal/#disqus_thread

    And the media, who was so pissed about “unfunded tax cuts” will just let it slide.


  147. lobo91
    147 | January 10, 2013 1:19 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    I was just about to post that, as an example of why we have the Second Amendment in the first place.


  148. 148 | January 10, 2013 1:19 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I always want to ask these people the caliber of the weapon OJ used, or the number of bullets in the magazine utilized on 9/11…..


  149. MikeA
    149 | January 10, 2013 1:23 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Moe Katz:
    Absolutely. Tobacco and Moonshine, the chief exports. Oh, and Final Four teams.

    To me, the bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms sounded like a party on a Saturday night when I was in college….


  150. AZfederalist
    150 | January 10, 2013 1:25 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    I think she was lying again…

    No, she was stating her truth. When liberals are in the minority, then dissent is good. When they are in control, things are as they should be, and dissent is rebellion against the proper order of things and is to be ignored as illogical and perverse. The communists had the same view.


  151. lobo91
    151 | January 10, 2013 1:25 pm

    Biden Says Obama May Seek To Ban Private Gun Sales…

    “And so the kinds of things that there’s an emerging set of recommendations, not coming from me but coming from the groups we’ve met with,” said Biden today, before a closed door meeting on gun control. “And I’m going to focus on the ones that relate primarily to gun ownership and the type of weapons can be owned. And one is, there is a surprising — so far — a surprising recurrence of suggestions that we have universal background checks. Not just close the gun show loophole but total, universal background checks, including private sales.”

    Of course, the only way you could actually enforce such a law would be to first require all the guns to be registered.


  152. 152 | January 10, 2013 1:29 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Massive Civil Disobediance. Such a decree is unenforcable. But it would serve to make criminals out of many otherwise law-abiding Americans. That is their main point here, I believe. They want to be able to arrest Conservatives for being Conservative, and if guns are more restricted, it is more likely that a Conservative will wind up breaking such laws.


  153. 153 | January 10, 2013 1:32 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    The libturd media outlets are already starting up again – “no one’s saying the Second Amendment is in jeopardy – what are you guys getting so excited about – relax……”


  154. 154 | January 10, 2013 1:33 pm

    @ lobo91:

    They go on and on about the “gun show loophole.” WHAT gun show loophole? Guns MUST be transferred using an FFL. If one of the parties to a sale isn’t an FFL, then they go to the one onsite at the gun show. At least that’s how it’s done in California.

    Don’t talk to us, Biden. Talk to your voting base in South Central and Chicago.


  155. lobo91
    155 | January 10, 2013 1:34 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:

    The libturd media outlets are already starting up again — “no one’s saying the Second Amendment is in jeopardy — what are you guys getting so excited about — relax……”

    Cuomo sounded like an absolute lunatic yesterday screaming about deer hunting.


  156. Da_Beerfreak
    156 | January 10, 2013 1:35 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    I always want to ask these people the caliber of the weapon OJ used, or the number of bullets in the magazine utilized on 9/11…..

    That’s nothing…

    Just wait till these morons come for your ‘high capacity savings account’ and that ‘semi-automatic pension fund’ you have tucked away…


  157. 157 | January 10, 2013 1:36 pm

    @ lobo91:

    And as far as “background” checks – since the ACLU and the rest of the libturd groups get so incensed about “stigmatizing” – how are you going to be able to check up on mental illness – you’re the groups that made us all throw open the doors of the hospitals. Mental illness is “healthcare” and there are laws about accessing a patient’s records.


  158. lobo91
    158 | January 10, 2013 1:36 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    They go on and on about the “gun show loophole.” WHAT gun show loophole? Guns MUST be transferred using an FFL. If one of the parties to a sale isn’t an FFL, then they go to the one onsite at the gun show. At least that’s how it’s done in California.

    It is here in Colorado, too, but it’s not the case in all states.

    But the vast majority of sales at gun shows are made by FFLs anyway.


  159. 159 | January 10, 2013 1:37 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    If Congress goes Democratic, it’s no. 1 on the shopping list!


  160. MikeA
    160 | January 10, 2013 1:37 pm

    So.. Do you think that the libs will try to over-reach with this or will they just try to do the incremental? They ask for more “sensible” gun control and slowly add it on or try to go the whole hog. I think they will go for the incremental. Trying to ban all “assault” weapons will backfire but they might try.


  161. 161 | January 10, 2013 1:38 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Yep – as someone pointed out – you don’t spend what – $200? – on a booth to sell your Remington 12-gauge.


  162. MikeA
    162 | January 10, 2013 1:39 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    The libturd media outlets are already starting up again — “no one’s saying the Second Amendment is in jeopardy — what are you guys getting so excited about — relax……”

    but… how would they react if someone tried to put limitations on the press or freedom of speech and used the same response.


  163. 163 | January 10, 2013 1:39 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    They go on and on about the “gun show loophole.” WHAT gun show loophole? Guns MUST be transferred using an FFL. If one of the parties to a sale isn’t an FFL, then they go to the one onsite at the gun show. At least that’s how it’s done in California.
    Don’t talk to us, Biden. Talk to your voting base in South Central and Chicago.

    That’s not how it’s done in most of the country.


  164. 164 | January 10, 2013 1:42 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    That’s not how it’s done here, and so what? The background check thing is a feel-good measure of no real consequence. Criminals steal their guns. They don’t pay retail for them.


  165. 165 | January 10, 2013 1:42 pm

    @ MikeA:

    Incrementally. They’ll pass the assault weapons/high volume magazines ban first. They will do this without actually defining what an assault weapon is. Then, when we have the next shooting, they will try something else. If the crime is committed with what is categorized as an “assault weapon,” I think they will see where they can go as far as confiscating them from people who have them. Just a guess, and you and I could think “WTF?” but they don’t operate on the same reality plane as the rest of us.


  166. buzzsawmonkey
    166 | January 10, 2013 1:42 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    They go on and on about the “gun show loophole.” WHAT gun show loophole?

    “My name is Lou Pole, and this is my gun I’m showing you.”


  167. Moe Katz
    167 | January 10, 2013 1:43 pm

    MikeA wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:
    @ Moe Katz:
    Absolutely. Tobacco and Moonshine, the chief exports. Oh, and Final Four teams.
    To me, the bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms sounded like a party on a Saturday night when I was in college….

    We used to be known as the Advanced Seminar on Animal Behavior.


  168. 168 | January 10, 2013 1:43 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Is Tennessee open carry or do you have to get a permit.


  169. 169 | January 10, 2013 1:45 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Put that thing away, Lew! And close your trenchcoat!


  170. buzzsawmonkey
    170 | January 10, 2013 1:45 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    The background check thing is a feel-good measure of no real consequence.

    Speaking of “universal background checks”—hey, Barry, how about the illegal foreign campaign donations you racked up on your websites in 2008 and 2012 by disabling the security software for credit card payments?


  171. Lily
    171 | January 10, 2013 1:46 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:
    It only leads me to beleive that once again we are not seeing a cross-section of the electorate but an echo chamber.
    I just can’t wrap my head around the fact that Obama won the election and yet we are to beleive that some significant portion of the folks that voted for him are against him on gun control.

    Doesn’t make sense now does it? I’m still confused that he even got re-elected. So as far as obama getting some type of gun-control? He has no one who is opposing him anywhere really…Congress is letting this rogue president remain rogue.


  172. 172 | January 10, 2013 1:46 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    You have to get a permit. We have a Senator that is working on that, but so far the legislature hasn’t shown any interest. That might change with the Feds tryin gto get frisky on gun control. Gun control is not popular in the State of Tennessee except maybe in Nashville and Memphis. Those are the four counties that went for Obama in the last election, anyway.


  173. Lily
    173 | January 10, 2013 1:47 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    Cruz is amazing. He will not back down and articulates conservatism as well as anyone since Reagan. He was Attorney General of Texas as well, I believe, so he’s certainly not a newbie to the political arena. Plus, unlike Obama — he actually worked when he held office.
    good enough for me…I’m starting from scratch and I’m less concerned about a platform than I am about principle and honesty…nobody is perfect and people disagree, but like I’ve said before, I’d rather deal with Al Capone…at least you could take him at his word…that’s how pathetic I see government

    Al Capone? Someone evil? Sorry I just can’t agree with you here.


  174. buzzsawmonkey
    174 | January 10, 2013 1:49 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Congress is letting this rogue president remain rogue.

    He is both rogue and “rouge,” politically speaking.


  175. Lily
    175 | January 10, 2013 1:52 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    Carolina Girl wrote:
    What he hadn’t really counted on was that he’d have to deal with a Republican House.
    We’ll see what he does with Executive Orders. I don’t really trust the Roberts Court to void unconstitutional orders from this President, and there’s no way we could overturn them Legislatively.
    Our last firewall for freedom will have to be the States, and I’m not counting on any help coming from the blue ones…

    You are probably right here. Many of the red states put into law limits of what the federal government can do. I do believe that Louisiana this last election passed a law making it harder for the federal government to get our guns.


  176. darkwords
    176 | January 10, 2013 1:53 pm

    @ 22 Rodan:They are looking for a simple majority in a CNN poll then will declare this is what the country as a whole wants.


  177. Lily
    177 | January 10, 2013 1:58 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    I always want to ask these people the caliber of the weapon OJ used, or the number of bullets in the magazine utilized on 9/11…..

    Excatly. You don’t have to have a gun to commit a murder. If you are that intent on killing someone …there are lots of items that will work.
    Guns don’t cause crimes, and if you inact gun laws only criminals will have guns..it’s not like they pay attention to the law now does it?


  178. darkwords
    178 | January 10, 2013 1:59 pm

    @ 165 Carolina Girl: The NRA needs a definitions page for the low information voters. Right up front.

    Maybe we could place an nra.org badege on the pages here and link it back to the NRA. They need the recognition.


  179. 180 | January 10, 2013 2:01 pm

    @ darkwords:

    CNN will conduct an online poll, and will close it when the “support” percentage hits 66%; i.e., after everyone in their newsroom has voted. In many ways, the guys at Freep have done a number on these libturd news sites and their crooked online polls. There is a “Freep this poll!” alarm that goes up to a “ping” list of over 50,000, and they immediately go vote. This is why these lying s**ts can’t get the results they’re looking for.


  180. Da_Beerfreak
    181 | January 10, 2013 2:01 pm

    Lily wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    Cruz is amazing. He will not back down and articulates conservatism as well as anyone since Reagan. He was Attorney General of Texas as well, I believe, so he’s certainly not a newbie to the political arena. Plus, unlike Obama — he actually worked when he held office.
    good enough for me…I’m starting from scratch and I’m less concerned about a platform than I am about principle and honesty…nobody is perfect and people disagree, but like I’ve said before, I’d rather deal with Al Capone…at least you could take him at his word…that’s how pathetic I see government

    Al Capone? Someone evil? Sorry I just can’t agree with you here.

    It’s a simple analogy. Al Capone would keep his word when he gave it to someone. Obama, not so much. It’s about keeping to one’s word, not who is giving it.


  181. 182 | January 10, 2013 2:01 pm

    @ darkwords:

    I’m in favor of it.


  182. 183 | January 10, 2013 2:02 pm

    Ooops. Nasty email asking “where’s my brief?” Imagine that – they want me to WORK around here!


  183. buzzsawmonkey
    184 | January 10, 2013 2:04 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Al Capone would keep his word when he gave it to someone.

    Except when he didn’t—by, say, ordering (or engaging in) the murder of a former associate with whom he had remained outwardly friendly to put the intended victim off guard.


  184. 185 | January 10, 2013 2:04 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    On-line polls are scientifically meaningless. They are worse than white noise, though, because the talking heads on the alphabet soup networks report them as though they were scientifically valid.


  185. darkwords
    186 | January 10, 2013 2:05 pm

    Give the NRA some feedback on their website. I was a little disappointed in it.


  186. Da_Beerfreak
    187 | January 10, 2013 2:05 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Al Capone would keep his word when he gave it to someone.

    Except when he didn’t—by, say, ordering (or engaging in) the murder of a former associate with whom he had remained outwardly friendly to put the intended victim off guard.

    The point is not to read too much into it in the first place. :wink:


  187. 188 | January 10, 2013 2:06 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    I’ve actually gotten a lot done today. I’m working on a particularly complicated edit screen. I won’t finish it today, but I hope to be done with it by the progress meeting tomorrow afternoon. I may not have the “new” functionality done by then, though. I’ll have to see what I have to do to get that working.


  188. darkwords
    189 | January 10, 2013 2:06 pm

    @ 185 Iron Fist: Probably the only usage is to polarize the low info voter and show them where they stand in the low info world.


  189. lobo91
    190 | January 10, 2013 2:07 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    And they’ll make the questions ridiculous, anyway.

    “Should crazed lunatics be allowed to use automatic rifles and high capacity bullets to mow down 6 year olds?”


  190. Lily
    191 | January 10, 2013 2:08 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    heysoos wrote:
    Carolina Girl wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    Cruz is amazing. He will not back down and articulates conservatism as well as anyone since Reagan. He was Attorney General of Texas as well, I believe, so he’s certainly not a newbie to the political arena. Plus, unlike Obama — he actually worked when he held office.
    good enough for me…I’m starting from scratch and I’m less concerned about a platform than I am about principle and honesty…nobody is perfect and people disagree, but like I’ve said before, I’d rather deal with Al Capone…at least you could take him at his word…that’s how pathetic I see government
    Al Capone? Someone evil? Sorry I just can’t agree with you here.
    It’s a simple analogy. Al Capone would keep his word when he gave it to someone. Obama, not so much. It’s about keeping to one’s word, not who is giving it.

    Well I would rather someone different than Al Capone to keep his word. Sure if ole Al said he would have you whacked I’m sure he would make good on it. There has to be a better analogy in my opinion. Wasn’t Capone from Chicago? I think he and obama have more in common than not. Other than one keeps his word and the other doesn’t.


  191. Da_Beerfreak
    192 | January 10, 2013 2:09 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 185 Iron Fist: Probably the only usage is to polarize the low info voter and show them where they stand in the low info world.

    The Mushrooms (low info voters) don’t know the difference and the MSM ain’t going to tell them.


  192. The Osprey
    193 | January 10, 2013 2:10 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Carolina Girl:

    They go on and on about the “gun show loophole.” WHAT gun show loophole? Guns MUST be transferred using an FFL. If one of the parties to a sale isn’t an FFL, then they go to the one onsite at the gun show. At least that’s how it’s done in California.

    It is here in Colorado, too, but it’s not the case in all states.

    But the vast majority of sales at gun shows are made by FFLs anyway.

    Here in the Free State of Arizona, you can still do private sales.


  193. Lily
    194 | January 10, 2013 2:10 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:
    Al Capone would keep his word when he gave it to someone.
    Except when he didn’t—by, say, ordering (or engaging in) the murder of a former associate with whom he had remained outwardly friendly to put the intended victim off guard.

    Oh my! Okay so Capone is more like obama than not now isn’t he? Obama is keeping his word on raising taxes too. So obama does keep his word on things people don’t want to believe and side-tracks on his word too.


  194. Da_Beerfreak
    195 | January 10, 2013 2:11 pm

    @ Lily:
    Like I just told BSM, the point is not to read too much into it. :wink:


  195. lobo91
    196 | January 10, 2013 2:11 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    There’s on at the bottom of every page on my website if someone wants to copy it and use it here.


  196. Lily
    197 | January 10, 2013 2:13 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    LOL! Yeah if you look too close… 8=)


  197. 198 | January 10, 2013 2:14 pm

    @ darkwords:

    Exactly. They are a propaganda tool, nothing more. But they do confuse the low info voters. Those people barely remember to breathe. Knowing about scientific validity of polling data is too far beyond their capacity. It involves math:roll:


  198. 199 | January 10, 2013 2:15 pm

    New Thread.


  199. Da_Beerfreak
    200 | January 10, 2013 2:15 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    LOL! Yeah if you look too close… 8=)

    Exactly. :grin:


  200. darkwords
    201 | January 10, 2013 2:19 pm

    @ 192 Da_Beerfreak: Good idea, we need to get it into the head of the low info voter that they are mushrooms.


  201. AZfederalist
    202 | January 10, 2013 2:31 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Interesting. One of the selling points for Giffords while she was running for office here was that she was a staunch supporter of the second amendment. The low information voters here ate it up and kept reflecting her.


  202. AZfederalist
    203 | January 10, 2013 3:00 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    That was a feature not a flaw. By making it impossible to get critical background information, this makes society less secure thus increasing reliance upon government to maintain security.


  203. Da_Beerfreak
    204 | January 10, 2013 3:50 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 192 Da_Beerfreak: Good idea, we need to get it into the head of the low info voter that they are mushrooms.

    Mushroom: One that lives in the dark of misinformation, eats all the crap the MSM feeds it, and shuns the light of truth…


  204. 205 | January 10, 2013 10:22 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Gabrielle Giffords PAC Hopes To Raise $20 Million To Protect Candidates From NRA Attacks…
    A new political action committee led by former Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.) hopes to match the National Rifle Association (NRA) by raising some $20 million ahead of the 2014 elections, the group’s treasurer said Wednesday.
    “We are going to provide support and backing for candidates in U.S. Congress and U.S. Senate races that are attacked by the NRA for taking moderate positions on common-sense gun-safety issues,” said Steve Mostyn, the Houston trial lawyer tabbed by Giffords and her husband, Mark Kelly, to handle the group’s finances, in an interview with Reuters. “We will also field candidates.”
    Mostyn says that in the aftermath of the Newtown, Conn., shooting that left 26 dead, including 20 children, the committee has seen encouraging fundraising results. The group raised $400,000 in small donations on the day it launched, Jan. 8, which also marked the second anniversary of the assassination attempt on Giffords’s life that left her gravely injured and six dead. Mostyn and his wife donated an additional million dollars.

    She is only alive because the Lord does not love the death of the unrighteous. Evidently, she and her husband have found themselves a new career path.

    I’m not the Lord, and for the sake of the rest of us, I find myself deeply regretting that she survived.

    There is no such thing as a good Democrat.

    No. Such. Thing.

    And yeah, I know what I am talking about. I am a brain surgery survivor.


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