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Zimbabwe Goes Broke

by coldwarrior ( 101 Comments › )
Filed under Africa, African Liberation Movements, Economy, government, Open thread, Zimbabwe at January 30th, 2013 - 11:00 am

ZIMBABWE NEW NOTE

(Picture Hat Tip: Macduff)

Follow the details, seize property and steal wealth created by others  then make huge political payoffs to supporters, rinse and repeat.Sound familiar? Obama is cut from the same cloth as Mugabe. Both are strict doctrinaire Third World Liberationists (From 2010: Obama Liberation Movement)

 

When Zimbabwe was run by Ian Smith there was never any trouble like this. Somehow Mugabe will try to blame the Whites yet again. But there aren’t any left to take the blame. Zim has huge diamond and uranium mines and the best farm land in Africa. There is no excuse for them to be broke, none.You will see that recurrent theme in many countries in Africa. 50 years of Black rule and they are still a mess, broke unstable and crime ridden.  The Black leaders blame Whitey over and over again but never fix the underlying problems.

 

Zimbabwe Is Down to Its Last $217

There are cash-strapped governments and there are broke governments. And then there’s Zimbabwe, which, after paying last week’s government salaries, has just $217 left in the bank. No, we didn’t forget any zeroes to the end of that figure. Zimbabwe, the country that’s home to some of the world’s largest plutonium and diamond reserves, literally has the same financial standing as a 14-year-old girl after a really good birthday party. The country’s finance minister admitted as much in a press conference on Tuesday. “Last week when we paid civil servants there was $217 [left] in government coffers,” Tendai Biti told reporters. “The government finances are in paralysis state at the present moment. We are failing to meet our targets.”

So it seems. However, Zimbabwe is hardly a stranger to financial hyperbole. The economy started to come apart at the seams in 2000, when President Robert Mugabe seized the land of over 4,000 white-owned farmers, effectively dismantling the country’s agriculture industry. Over the course of the next decade, the country spiraled into an extended period of hyperinflation, the likes of which the world almost never sees. It peaked in August 2008, when inflation reached 11,200,000 percent and economists around the world started to say that the country’s situation was hopeless. Prices were doubling by the day, and the government had to print Z$100 billion notes. The following year, they went ahead and printed Z$100 trillion notes, just before deciding to chop 12 zeroes off of the currency. A new coalition government formed that year and started on the long process of financial recovery, a process that is clearly going to take a little longer.

It’s unclear how the Zimbabwean government is going to get itself out this fiscal mess, but whatever it does, it needs to do it quickly. As Quartz’s Tim Fernholz points out, Zimbabwe is looking at a $104 million bill for its upcoming election. Its government is also dealing with brand new allegations that government officials have been running a corruption ring around the country’s diamond mines. The country obviously desperately needs a major change. “But action against corruption probably won’t come until the end of Mugabe’s reign, and a new constitution coming up for a referendum this spring — presuming the funds can be found — might set up the aging autocrat for another term in power,” writes Fernholz.

Until then, looking for quarters under the couch isn’t going to cut it, so Zimbabwe is doing the only thing it can do. “We will be approaching the international community,” Biti said. You’ll never guess who’s most likely to come to the rescue. Hint: They’re big fans of rare minerals.

 

More coverage from the African papers:

From 2 000 the seizure of white-owned farms led to chaos in the agriculture sector and the economy shrank by half. In 2008 hyperinflation of 231 000 000% broke the national currency and left millions of people hungry…

…The Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) claims that income from lucrative diamond sales is being expropriated by 88-year-old Mugabe’s Zanu-PF party to boost its campaign for votes. Biti, who is also MDC secretary general, has claimed the treasury received only $40-million from diamonds last year.

The MDC spokesperson Douglas Mwonzora said: “The government has no money. The most important thing is that money from diamonds is not being remitted to government coffers. As a result, after payments were made last week, there was only $217 left.”

He added: “The diamond wealth is going to Zanu-PF machinery and its war chest. There is likely to be an economic crash because of the uncertainty of the elections and the possibility of a Zanu-PF victory. Investors really have to pray for an MDC victory.”

 

 

Like they say above, look for the Chinese to move right in on this. They will bail out Mugabe with the money that we pay to them to finance OUR debts and gain all of the resources.

FOREIGN HELD DEBT IS A NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUE.

 

Required reading: Saturday Lecture Series: From Rhodesia to Zimbabwe

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101 Responses to “Zimbabwe Goes Broke”
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  1. 1 | January 30, 2013 11:07 am

    Hey, with hyperinflation everybody can be a millionaire! Obama’s gonna make is rich! Where’s my ObamaPhone? 8O


  2. 2 | January 30, 2013 11:08 am

    Zimbawe will now be a colony of the Neo-Ming Chinese Empire!


  3. 3 | January 30, 2013 11:08 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Hey, with hyperinflation everybody can be a millionaire! Obama’s gonna make is rich! Where’s my ObamaPhone?

    Obama’s stash!


  4. coldwarrior
    4 | January 30, 2013 11:30 am

    we borrow money from china, they use what we pay them on that debt to buy out zimbabwe, they take over zim with our money then sell the stuff from zim back to us.

    love it.


  5. coldwarrior
    5 | January 30, 2013 11:32 am

    the blacks have destroyed africa. its time to quit blaming whitey and put on the big boy pants and fix your stinking countries.


  6. 6 | January 30, 2013 11:38 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Yes, it is amazing how so many once-prosperous nations were ruined in such a short time. We’re going to see that in America, too, I am afraid. Black or white, the Democrats (and not a few Republicans) are afflicted with the spending disease. We are going to borrow and spend our way into penury.


  7. 7 | January 30, 2013 11:42 am

    Dude, you totally used the wrong picture for that. Here, try this one, it makes your point so much better.


  8. buzzsawmonkey
    8 | January 30, 2013 11:42 am

    The Chicago Way leads to the Zimbabwe.


  9. buzzsawmonkey
    9 | January 30, 2013 11:44 am

    doriangrey wrote:

    Dude, you totally used the wrong picture for that. Here, try this one, it makes your point so much better.

    Somehow, I think that counterfeiting is not a problem in Zimbabwe.


  10. buzzsawmonkey
    10 | January 30, 2013 11:47 am

    50 years of Black rule and they are still a mess, broke unstable and crime ridden. The Black leaders blame Whitey over and over again but never fix the underlying problems.

    So, how’s that Detroit sister-city program going?


  11. coldwarrior
    11 | January 30, 2013 11:47 am

    i cant think of one quantitative measurement where africa is better after de-colonization.


  12. 12 | January 30, 2013 11:48 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    Dude, you totally used the wrong picture for that. Here, try this one, it makes your point so much better.
    Somehow, I think that counterfeiting is not a problem in Zimbabwe.

    ROTFLMAO… Well, at least not of Zimbabwe’s native currency. Since the paper and ink and printing would be worth more than any monetary value you could put on the note.


  13. 13 | January 30, 2013 11:50 am

    Zimbabwe will be driving up to the convenience store later this afternoon in their rusted out Olds 88 to pick up some malt liquor and a handful of scratch-offs…..


  14. buzzsawmonkey
    14 | January 30, 2013 11:51 am

    It’d be fun if Zimbabwe decided to get out of its financial hole by flooding the diamond market.


  15. The Osprey
    15 | January 30, 2013 11:53 am

    When Zimbabwe RHODESIA was run by Ian Smith there was never any trouble like this.

    FTFY :lol:


  16. 16 | January 30, 2013 11:53 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Better that than Uranium and Plutonium…


  17. The Osprey
    17 | January 30, 2013 11:55 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    The Chicago Way leads to the Zimbabwe.

    In Zim, it’s Bob’s Way…or else!


  18. 18 | January 30, 2013 11:58 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Progressivism is a human cancer.


  19. RIX
    19 | January 30, 2013 11:58 am

    Mugabe encouraged “veterans ” to diesel White farms.
    Not only did they do it, but usually murdered the families.
    Whites fled and now look at the place.)


  20. 20 | January 30, 2013 12:00 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    i cant think of one quantitative measurement where africa is better after de-colonization.

    They adopted Socialism and not Capitalism. Ironically they did because when The UK and France gave up their colonies, They had Leftist governments. So the Africans adopted the worst aspect of the West.


  21. 21 | January 30, 2013 12:00 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    It’d be fun if Zimbabwe decided to get out of its financial hole by flooding the diamond market.

    Hmmm, not to sound anti-Semitic here, because you know I’m not, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around person of Jewish ancestry making that statement considering the Hasidic Jewish influence in the world wide diamond market. (Yes, I am desperately attempting to visualize the expression on your face for some clue as to the meaning of that statement)


  22. 22 | January 30, 2013 12:00 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Liberal policies don’t come off very well if you look at their real effects. But Liberal policies make Liberals feel like things are ever so much better. Can’t you see that it is better for Zimbabwe to have native-born oppressors and poverty that it is for them to have “foreign-born” “oppressors” (who may very well be natives themselves) and prosperity? It is more fair if everyone is poor. Except Robert Mugabe, presumably. I bet he’s rich as Croessus…


  23. RIX
    23 | January 30, 2013 12:01 pm

    @ RIX:
    That is not a Smiley face on my last post

    I am on a smart phone.


  24. buzzsawmonkey
    24 | January 30, 2013 12:04 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    Hmmm, not to sound anti-Semitic here, because you know I’m not, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around person of Jewish ancestry making that statement considering the Hasidic Jewish influence in the world wide diamond market. (Yes, I am desperately attempting to visualize the expression on your face for some clue as to the meaning of that statement)

    Oh, I’m assuming that Mugabe’s flooding the diamond market would either cause accusations that the Joos are behind it—or perhaps you’re suggesting that a diamond glut would damage the livelihoods of some of my co-religionists.

    I confess I hadn’t considered either, particularly; I merely would like to buy a diamond for someone and can’t afford it at the moment.


  25. 25 | January 30, 2013 12:05 pm

    Senate Judiciary chair rejects Dianne Feinstein’s assault weapons ban:

    The Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee did not endorse colleague Dianne Feinstein’s assault weapons ban at a packed Capitol Hill hearing on guns Wednesday in the wake of the Newtown, Conn., shooting.

    Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., called for “common sense reform,” that closes loopholes in current gun laws and enforces background checks. Buthe did not endorse Feinstein’s tougher ban. “I know gun store owners in Vermont,” Leahy said. “They follow the law and conduct background checks…why should we not try to plug the loopholes in the law that allow (criminals and the mentally ill) to buy guns without background checks?”

    The rebuffed California Democrat plans to hold her own hearing in her Judiciary subcommittee on her legislation, which is strongly opposed by the National Rifle Association. Senate majority leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has also refused to back a ban on military-style weapons and high-capacity clips. Reid’s position reflects the political fact that a whole bevy of conservative Democrats do not support Feinstein’s ban.

    I think the handwriting is on the wall, this go-around, but if the Dems re-take the House in 2014, I bet it’ll be back then.


  26. coldwarrior
    26 | January 30, 2013 12:05 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    i cant think of one quantitative measurement where africa is better after de-colonization.

    They adopted Socialism and not Capitalism. Ironically they did because when The UK and France gave up their colonies, They had Leftist governments. So the Africans adopted the worst aspect of the West.

    in part. the other problem is one that affects most revolutionary movements. they are good at destroying the old order and pathetic at creating anything better.

    in africa, they went kleptocrat.


  27. 27 | January 30, 2013 12:06 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    @ MacDuff:
    @ doriangrey:
    @ coldwarrior:
    @ RIX:

    Here is the Obama Regime spin on the contraction!

    In response to the news today that the economy contracted -.1 percent in the final quarter of last year, Democrats are touting the claim that this is “the best-looking contraction in U.S. GDP you’ll ever see.” The claim was originally made by chief U.S. economist for Capital Economics Paul Ashworth.


  28. 28 | January 30, 2013 12:09 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    Hmmm, not to sound anti-Semitic here, because you know I’m not, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around person of Jewish ancestry making that statement considering the Hasidic Jewish influence in the world wide diamond market. (Yes, I am desperately attempting to visualize the expression on your face for some clue as to the meaning of that statement)
    Oh, I’m assuming that Mugabe’s flooding the diamond market would either cause accusations that the Joos are behind it—or perhaps you’re suggesting that a diamond glut would damage the livelihoods of some of my co-religionists.
    I confess I hadn’t considered either, particularly; I merely would like to buy a diamond for someone and can’t afford it at the moment.

    Well, yea, the question that was in my mind was halfway between why would you want to damage the financial livelihoods of any of your co-religionists and why would you want to start another round of the “Evil Jew’s” are manipulating the worlds financial system again trying to start another world war.

    The idea that you might not have sufficient funds available to purchase a special someone near and dear to you a diamond really never occurred to me. :oops:


  29. coldwarrior
    29 | January 30, 2013 12:10 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    i wish that there were separate parallel markets.

    one for ‘blood diamonds’ and one for ‘clean diamonds’.

    it would be interesting to see what happens.


  30. 30 | January 30, 2013 12:10 pm

    @ Rodan:

    It’s a good looking contraction! Watch out! Bill Clinton will hit on it… :roll:


  31. buzzsawmonkey
    31 | January 30, 2013 12:14 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    one for ‘blood diamonds’ and one for ‘clean diamonds’.

    I didn’t even know Africa had a baseball league…


  32. unclassifiable
    32 | January 30, 2013 12:15 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    Is that supposed to symolize that this money is worth three rocks (stacked as opposed to unstacked which is worth less I suppose).


  33. buzzsawmonkey
    33 | January 30, 2013 12:17 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    Is that supposed to symolize that this money is worth three rocks (stacked as opposed to unstacked which is worth less I suppose).

    Maybe that the head of government is as dumb as a pile of rocks?


  34. Da_Beerfreak
    34 | January 30, 2013 12:20 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Zimbawe will now be a colony of the Neo-Ming Chinese Empire!

    All that farm land is exactly what the Chicoms are looking for.


  35. 35 | January 30, 2013 12:21 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    It’s OK for the Chinese to have a colony. They aren’t white


  36. unclassifiable
    36 | January 30, 2013 12:21 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    It’s a good looking contraction! Watch out! Bill Clinton will hit on it…

    Is that the “Stimulating from Behind” theory of economic leadership?


  37. 37 | January 30, 2013 12:24 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Is that supposed to symolize that this money is worth three rocks (stacked as opposed to unstacked which is worth less I suppose).

    No,it’s actually a famous Monument in Zimbabwe. Kind of like Mt Rushmore in the US or that huge Red Rock out in the middle of the Australian nowhere.


  38. unclassifiable
    38 | January 30, 2013 12:25 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Which ever market is getting a better price for their diamonds will encourage the suppliers for the other market to “wash” any trace of being able to tell one from the other.

    But you knew that.

    The hairless monkeys are very clever.


  39. unclassifiable
    39 | January 30, 2013 12:26 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    Was I not supposed to be a smartass on that one?


  40. 40 | January 30, 2013 12:33 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Was I not supposed to be a smartass on that one?

    BWAHAHAHAHAH……. Sorry… Went right over my head… :oops:


  41. Da_Beerfreak
    41 | January 30, 2013 12:37 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    It’s OK for the Chinese to have a colony. They aren’t white…

    They also have a ‘ready to go’ workforce made up of their excess male population thanks to their ‘one child’ policy. Young single males are eager to work the neo colonial holdings because their chances of getting a native wife is better then staying in China to look for a Chinese wife.


  42. 42 | January 30, 2013 12:40 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    That “surplus population” is also ripe to make into soldiers, shoudl the Chinese be feeling adventurous. But things like that would never happen under Obama’s watchful eye, would they?


  43. 43 | January 30, 2013 12:41 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Da_Beerfreak:
    That “surplus population” is also ripe to make into soldiers, shoudl the Chinese be feeling adventurous. But things like that would never happen under Obama’s watchful eye, would they?

    Not really, look at the geography.


  44. huckfunn
    44 | January 30, 2013 12:43 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    “Stimulating from Behind”

    Otherwise known as a “reach around”. :mrgreen:


  45. The Osprey
    45 | January 30, 2013 12:43 pm

    unclassifiable wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Is that supposed to symolize that this money is worth three rocks (stacked as opposed to unstacked which is worth less I suppose).

    The “stacked rocks” are actually giant boulders in an area called the Matopos, which is full of spectacular rocky kopjes and stacked boulder formations. It’s a national park that was founded in 1926 by Cecil Rhodes. A lot of history there…

    The hills were the scene of the famous indaba between white settlers and Ndebele leaders in 1896—the Second Matabele War, known in Zimbabwe as the First Chimurenga—which ended with the assassination of the Mlimo by Frederick Russell Burnham, the American scout, in one of the Matobo caves. Upon learning of the death of the Mlimo, Cecil Rhodes boldly walked alone and unarmed into this Ndebele stronghold and persuaded the impi to lay down their arms. During the indaba it was also in these hills that Robert Baden-Powell, the Founder of Scouting, first learned woodcraft, the fundamentals of scouting, from Burnham.

    Cecil Rhodes, Leander Starr Jameson, and several other leading early white settlers, including Allan Wilson and all the members of the Shangani Patrol killed in the First Matabele War, are buried on the summit of Malindidzimu, the ‘hill of the spirits’ — this is a great source of controversy in modern Zimbabwe as this is considered a sacred place by nationalists and indigenous groups.


  46. 46 | January 30, 2013 12:44 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    May I have your permission to mirror this article on 1389 Blog?


  47. 47 | January 30, 2013 12:47 pm

    Criminals prefer unarmed victims:

    In short, “Anti-Gun-Protestor Jerome McCorry” and “Rapist-and-Convicted-Felon Jerome McCorry” are one and the same person, and WHIO-TV and The Dayton Daily News have been treating this man as a legitimate voice of reason that should be considered in the debate over whether or not rape and other crime victims should be able to buy firearms in order to protect themselves from attack.

    What’s even worse, this isn’t the first time. A search of the WHIO-TV website shows Jerome McCorry appearing in other articles advocating gun control over the past few years, and one article about an incident in which an Adam Project-sponsored rally turned violent.

    Lovely.


  48. taxfreekiller
    48 | January 30, 2013 12:47 pm

    On a U.S.A. note:

    google this group

    Aaron Michaels (founder of new black panthers)

    wife

    Kimberly Lagayle McCarthy

    John Willey Price (Democrat County Commis. Dallas County Texas)

    It is what it is.


  49. 49 | January 30, 2013 12:49 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    Oh, China won;t go to war in Zimbabwe, but they want the Oceans (at least) in the Southwestern Pacific.


  50. 50 | January 30, 2013 12:53 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Oh, China won;t go to war in Zimbabwe, but they want the Oceans (at least) in the Southwestern Pacific.

    That would require something that they do not have, namely a Blue Water Navy.


  51. 51 | January 30, 2013 12:56 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    @ doriangrey:
    Oh, China won;t go to war in Zimbabwe, but they want the Oceans (at least) in the Southwestern Pacific.

    That would require something that they do not have, namely a Blue Water Navy.

    They don’t yet. However they are working on it. They’ll make it happen within a decade, possibly sooner.


  52. 52 | January 30, 2013 12:57 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    Which they are working on. They have the money. All it takes is the will and the tie. In the meantime, Obama is drastically cutting our Navy. What could possibly go wrong?


  53. waldensianspirit
    53 | January 30, 2013 1:00 pm

    Toilet Paper Only


  54. 54 | January 30, 2013 1:00 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Which they are working on. They have the money. All it takes is the will and the tie. In the meantime, Obama is drastically cutting our Navy. What could possibly go wrong?

    As the Chinese soon enough shall learn, having a Blue Water Navy is a lot more complicated than building ships or buy crap from the Russians.


  55. lobo91
    55 | January 30, 2013 1:02 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:

    Which they are working on. They have the money. All it takes is the will and the tie. In the meantime, Obama is drastically cutting our Navy. What could possibly go wrong?

    Hell, Obama will probably sell them some of the ships we decommission.


  56. buzzsawmonkey
    56 | January 30, 2013 1:02 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    In the meantime, Obama is drastically cutting our Navy.

    He’s still pissed off that Theodore Roosevelt called it the Great White Fleet.


  57. huckfunn
    57 | January 30, 2013 1:02 pm

    @ doriangrey:
    @ 1389AD:
    @ Iron Fist:
    Here’s where China is going with their naval ambitions.

    (CNN) — China announced Sunday that it had landed a fighter jet on the deck of an aircraft carrier for the first time, but it may be years before the ship is fully operational.
    China’s “first generation multi-purpose carrier-borne fighter jet,” known as the J-15, successfully completed its first landing on the Liaoning, an aircraft carrier China built using an abandoned Soviet hull, according to China’s official news agency Xinhua.
    The J-15′s capabilities are comparable to the Russian Su-33 jet and the U.S. F-18, Xinhua reported. The Chinese-designed jet can “carry multi-type anti-ship, air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles, as well as precision-guided bombs, the report said.
    The U.S. military, in its latest annual assessment of China’s military capability, predicted “it will still take several additional years for China to achieve a minimal level of combat capability for its aircraft carriers.”
    The Liaoning will be able to carry 30 J-15 fighter planes and will have a crew of 2,000, according to a People’s Daily Online report published when it completed its first sea trials in August 2011.

    The first one won’t be operational for awhile, but they intend to build a multiple carrier fleet while the U.S. is carrier fleet is being downsized. The Chitcoms ™ are enabling the Chicoms.


  58. 58 | January 30, 2013 1:05 pm

    huckfunn wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    @ 1389AD:
    @ Iron Fist:
    Here’s where China is going with their naval ambitions.
    (CNN) — China announced Sunday that it had landed a fighter jet on the deck of an aircraft carrier for the first time, but it may be years before the ship is fully operational.
    China’s “first generation multi-purpose carrier-borne fighter jet,” known as the J-15, successfully completed its first landing on the Liaoning, an aircraft carrier China built using an abandoned Soviet hull, according to China’s official news agency Xinhua.
    The J-15′s capabilities are comparable to the Russian Su-33 jet and the U.S. F-18, Xinhua reported. The Chinese-designed jet can “carry multi-type anti-ship, air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles, as well as precision-guided bombs, the report said.
    The U.S. military, in its latest annual assessment of China’s military capability, predicted “it will still take several additional years for China to achieve a minimal level of combat capability for its aircraft carriers.”
    The Liaoning will be able to carry 30 J-15 fighter planes and will have a crew of 2,000, according to a People’s Daily Online report published when it completed its first sea trials in August 2011.
    The first one won’t be operational for awhile, but they intend to build a multiple carrier fleet while the U.S. is carrier fleet is being downsized. The Chitcoms ™ are enabling the Chicoms.

    Those Chinese Aircraft Carriers will make wonderful artificial reefs the first time they try to engage the US Navy.


  59. 59 | January 30, 2013 1:07 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    @ doriangrey:
    Which they are working on. They have the money. All it takes is the will and the tie. In the meantime, Obama is drastically cutting our Navy. What could possibly go wrong?

    As the Chinese soon enough shall learn, having a Blue Water Navy is a lot more complicated than building ships or buy crap from the Russians.

    That’s true too. But they’re very good at stealing US know-how, either via espionage or via stooooopid people in the US failing to secure our secrets.


  60. huckfunn
    60 | January 30, 2013 1:08 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    Those Chinese Aircraft Carriers will make wonderful artificial reefs the first time they try to engage the US Navy.

    True dat. However, the Chicoms are taking the long view. They will build more carriers and in the long run they will be a force to be reckoned with.


  61. 61 | January 30, 2013 1:08 pm

    @ huckfunn:

    The Chinese take the long view of things. My bet is they figure that they are buying the next Pacific War by enabling our suicide by debt. They are just gettin gstarted building aircraft carriers, but they’ll actually be getting operational in about a decade, when our debt bomb goes off. Our economy will be collapsing, and there won’t be anybody on the planet that can stop them from doing whatever the hell they want to.


  62. 62 | January 30, 2013 1:11 pm

    1389AD wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    Iron Fist wrote:
    @ doriangrey:
    Which they are working on. They have the money. All it takes is the will and the tie. In the meantime, Obama is drastically cutting our Navy. What could possibly go wrong?
    As the Chinese soon enough shall learn, having a Blue Water Navy is a lot more complicated than building ships or buy crap from the Russians.

    That’s true too. But they’re very good at stealing US know-how, either via espionage or via stooooopid people in the US failing to secure our secrets.

    Blue Water Navy know-how isn’t something you can steal. It’s something that only comes with actual hands on experience. It takes a damned long time to become the Captain of a major US Naval Vessel and for damned good reason. Once the Chinese venture out into Deep Water the learning cure will get brutally expensive.


  63. 63 | January 30, 2013 1:13 pm

    @ huckfunn:
    @ Iron Fist:

    This assumes something totally not in evidence and contrary to that which is in evidence, that being that China will survive the financial holocaust caused by the aforesaid collapse of the American economy.


  64. 64 | January 30, 2013 1:14 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    I don’t know about that. We managed to learn in World War II pretty quickly. Yeah, we had some prior experience, but not that much. The Chinese are no less intelligent than the Americans. We underestimate them at our peril.


  65. Buffalobob
    65 | January 30, 2013 1:14 pm

    I’m surprised that Jessie, Big Al, Harry B, Spike, and all of the rest of the continually persecuted activist are not clamoring to move to this utopia.


  66. 66 | January 30, 2013 1:15 pm

    @ doriangrey:
    The Russians will most likely be happy to help them get started.

    And when the US goes even further down the tubes, Chinese-Americans may go back to China, possibly including a few who have naval experience. Experts disperse and go to work for the highest bidder when a “superpower” (which we no longer are) collapses.


  67. Da_Beerfreak
    67 | January 30, 2013 1:15 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:

    Oh, China won;t go to war in Zimbabwe, but they want the Oceans (at least) in the Southwestern Pacific.

    India, Japan make common cause to thwart China’s maritime moves


  68. 68 | January 30, 2013 1:16 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    I don’t know about that. We managed to learn in World War II pretty quickly. Yeah, we had some prior experience, but not that much. The Chinese are no less intelligent than the Americans. We underestimate them at our peril.

    I think that’s why the Chinese are making footholds all over the Third World. They have no intention of being taken down by the catastrophes in the US.


  69. waldensianspirit
    69 | January 30, 2013 1:16 pm

    We are


  70. 70 | January 30, 2013 1:18 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    Yeah, the world is re-aligning while Obama fiddles and the US slowly burns. The same people who make decisions in these countries can look ahead to the coming economic implosion and take actions accordingly. How does the US Debt stack up against that of the Former Soviet Union? I don’t know, but by the end of the Second Obama Administration we are going to be sneaking up on a debt-to-GDP ratio up there with that of Greece. And there won’t be anybody to bail us out.


  71. waldensianspirit
    71 | January 30, 2013 1:18 pm

    Zimbabwe


  72. 72 | January 30, 2013 1:19 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    I don’t know about that. We managed to learn in World War II pretty quickly. Yeah, we had some prior experience, but not that much. The Chinese are no less intelligent than the Americans. We underestimate them at our peril.

    No, most assuredly not the case. The US became a Blue Water Naval power back in the early 1800′s. Three Sailors in my family, you can be certain I am aware of the History of the United States Navy. From the Shores of Tripoli, remember? how do you think those United States Marines Got to Tripoli, they sure as hell didn’t walk. :twisted:


  73. 73 | January 30, 2013 1:20 pm

    @ 1389AD:

    China has more trading partners than we do. They are diversifying. We, on the other hand, are shrinking as a share of the Global Market. We’d become less influential as a result, no matter what, but Obama and the Democrats have deliberately charted us on a course to disaster. Already our debt is 60% bigger than it was when Obama took office, and we haven’t even gotten to the hits on the economy that are coming as the baby boomers age and ObamCare kicks in.


  74. 74 | January 30, 2013 1:23 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    They had aircraft carriers in the early 1800s? Color me surprised. Unfortunately for us, the Chinese won’t have to invent carrier warfare. All they have to do is read history books to see how it is carried out. Like I said, you underestimate the Chinese at your peril. And you are underestimating the Chinese very badly.


  75. 75 | January 30, 2013 1:23 pm

    1389AD wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    The Russians will most likely be happy to help them get started.

    I’ll laugh my ass off if the Chinese are foolish enough to believe that. Here’s a clue for you. The Russians do not like or trust the Chinese. They will sell them outdated and antiquated junk, but they will not sell them anything that would facilitate China having a genuine Blue Water Navy.

    Right now there are only three genuine Blue Water Navies on earth.
    The US, Britain and Russia. the Russian’s have absolutely no intention of helping the Chinese enter that rather exclusive club.


  76. 76 | January 30, 2013 1:29 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    They had aircraft carriers in the early 1800s? Color me surprised. Unfortunately for us, the Chinese won’t have to invent carrier warfare. All they have to do is read history books to see how it is carried out. Like I said, you underestimate the Chinese at your peril. And you are underestimating the Chinese very badly.

    Wake the hell up dude. A Aircraft Carrier is only as effective as the fleet that protects and supports it. Deep Water is way fucking different that coastal water. If you don’t have deep water experience, having an Aircraft Carrier is like Saddam Hussein’s infamous line of death in the sand. it amounts to utterly useless bravado.

    Argentina has more Aircraft Carriers than China and far more Blue Water experience, and who thinks that Argentina represents a serious Naval threat to anyone?


  77. Da_Beerfreak
    77 | January 30, 2013 1:34 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ doriangrey:

    They had aircraft carriers in the early 1800s? Color me surprised. Unfortunately for us, the Chinese won’t have to invent carrier warfare. All they have to do is read history books to see how it is carried out. Like I said, you underestimate the Chinese at your peril. And you are underestimating the Chinese very badly.

    The Chicoms have been “classroom” training the Officers for a carrier force since ’85, they’re ready and eager to start training at sea.

    Before Pearl Harbor the U.S. Military had convinced themselves that the Japanese could never produce good fighter pilots either…


  78. Da_Beerfreak
    78 | January 30, 2013 1:37 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    Right now there are only three genuine Blue Water Navies on earth.
    The US, Britain and Russia. the Russian’s have absolutely no intention of helping the Chinese enter that rather exclusive club.

    India is fast catching up (if they haven’t already) to those three and will be a force to be reckoned with before the Chicoms.


  79. 79 | January 30, 2013 1:38 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    @ doriangrey:
    They had aircraft carriers in the early 1800s? Color me surprised. Unfortunately for us, the Chinese won’t have to invent carrier warfare. All they have to do is read history books to see how it is carried out. Like I said, you underestimate the Chinese at your peril. And you are underestimating the Chinese very badly.

    The Chicoms have been “classroom” training the Officers for a carrier force since ’85, they’re ready and eager to start training at sea.
    Before Pearl Harbor the U.S. Military had convinced themselves that the Japanese could never produce good fighter pilots either…

    Ever wonder why the Russian Carrier fleet never exceeded 2 real Aircraft Carriers? Think about that for a little while.


  80. 80 | January 30, 2013 1:41 pm

    @ Rodan:

    I will respond to that absurd statement once my eyeballs have stopped spinning around in my head…..


  81. 81 | January 30, 2013 1:42 pm

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    Right now there are only three genuine Blue Water Navies on earth.
    The US, Britain and Russia. the Russian’s have absolutely no intention of helping the Chinese enter that rather exclusive club.
    India is fast catching up (if they haven’t already) to those three and will be a force to be reckoned with before the Chicoms.

    Maybe, maybe not. I have yet to see anything that indicates that India has any Deep Water Naval aspirations. India’s military for all that I can ascertain is an exclusively defensive reactionary force.


  82. Da_Beerfreak
    82 | January 30, 2013 1:44 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    @ doriangrey:
    They had aircraft carriers in the early 1800s? Color me surprised. Unfortunately for us, the Chinese won’t have to invent carrier warfare. All they have to do is read history books to see how it is carried out. Like I said, you underestimate the Chinese at your peril. And you are underestimating the Chinese very badly.

    The Chicoms have been “classroom” training the Officers for a carrier force since ’85, they’re ready and eager to start training at sea.
    Before Pearl Harbor the U.S. Military had convinced themselves that the Japanese could never produce good fighter pilots either…

    Ever wonder why the Russian Carrier fleet never exceeded 2 real Aircraft Carriers? Think about that for a little while.

    No. One Ship does not make a Navy. The Chicoms are will aware of the need to build a sufficient number of surface combatants to create a proper ‘Task Force’ to cover the needs of a Carrier at sea.


  83. huckfunn
    83 | January 30, 2013 1:48 pm

    Ditto what IF said in #74. Any nation that has ambitions for a carrier equipped blue water fleet needs only study the U.S. Navy for the past 70 years.


  84. The Osprey
    84 | January 30, 2013 1:54 pm

    Buffalobob wrote:

    I’m surprised that Jessie, Big Al, Harry B, Spike, and all of the rest of the continually persecuted activist are not clamoring to move to this utopia.

    Jessie Jackson, Andrew Young and other “civil rights” activists in the ’70′s bear a large responsibility for the creation of this utopia, for pressuring Jimmy Carter and his State Department to keep up the economic sanctions on Ian Smith’s Rhodesian Government. So it is only fitting that they should enjoy the fruits of their labors.
    I’d be happy to contribute funds for a one way plane ticket to Harare.


  85. 85 | January 30, 2013 1:54 pm

    Looks like Barney’s hopes for “advancement” are dashed:

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/01/30/mass-gov-deval-patrick-passes-on-bawney-fwank-as-interim-senator/#disqus_thread

    Patrick did something right -- there’s one in a row.


  86. buzzsawmonkey
    86 | January 30, 2013 1:55 pm

    Zimbabwe could solve its problems by importing North Korean guest workers.


  87. buzzsawmonkey
    87 | January 30, 2013 1:57 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Hey, CG! Here are the links to the stuff from last week, if you missed ‘em:

    The Difference Made

    Ban All the Guns

    “Reason Not the Need.”

    The last one, I think, you’ll really like.


  88. 88 | January 30, 2013 1:58 pm

    @ huckfunn:

    We wrote the book on force projection, but we are letting that slip through our hands. We’ll see what Boehne pulls out of Sequestration, but I don’t have great hopes for it. Obama and the Democrats are hell-bent on destroying the American Military as a tool of foreign policy. Obama has four years to act before we can even begin to staunch the bleeding. But I am very much afraid that major ships taken out of comission simply won’t be replaced, even under a Republican Administration. Our National Debt is the biggest danger we face in the near-term, and I think even if we see a Republican Administration in 2016 that will be their primary focus. If there is one thing tha thistory teaches, it is that those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who do not.


  89. huckfunn
    89 | January 30, 2013 2:02 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    If there is one thing tha thistory teaches, it is that those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who do not.

    Yessir, particularly when those beating their swords into plows are financing Chinese swords.


  90. Da_Beerfreak
    90 | January 30, 2013 2:04 pm

    @ doriangrey:
    India’s new Navy chief pilots ‘blue-water’ strategy

    India’s new Navy chief sits at the helm of an emergent, “blue-water navy” strategically positioning the country’s stated aspirations to command a dominant role in the Indian Ocean.

    Admiral Devendra Kumar Joshi, 58, replaced retiring Navy chief Admiral Nirmal Kumar Verma on Aug. 31. India’s Navy has 123 ships and 11 submarines.

    Blue-water navy refers to the ability to exercise sea control at wide ranges. Specifically, the term describes a “maritime force capable of sustained operation across open oceans, project power from the home country and usually includes one or more aircraft carriers,” according to U.S. Defense Security.
    [Emphasis Added]


  91. 91 | January 30, 2013 2:19 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    They are rapidly building that up.


  92. 92 | January 30, 2013 2:21 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    That’s what happen when you use your military for nation building. People lose support for maintaining a big military. People do not trust our leaders to use it wisely.


  93. coldwarrior
    93 | January 30, 2013 3:08 pm

    @ 1389AD:

    sure.


  94. darkwords
    94 | January 30, 2013 3:15 pm

    @ Da_Beerfreak:
    http://formerspook.blogspot.com/ Has a few articles on how the Chinese are trying to project power. One via satellites, and one via a navy. They say China can not yet project power into Taiwan successfully.

    And the Chinese have a penchant for taking short cuts.


  95. darkwords
    95 | January 30, 2013 3:17 pm

    @ 75 doriangrey:

    Enter China. Beijing has long been cultivating ties with Portugal (which controls the Azores) and has indicated its interest in establishing a presence if the U.S. leaves. If that happens, China would immediately have an important outpost in the Atlantic (emphasis ours), and the recent sighting of the Y-20 confirms Beijing’s intent to develop the assets required to project and sustain power far from the western Pacific.

    formerspook


  96. darkwords
    96 | January 30, 2013 3:19 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    In recent years, China has begun sea trials for its first fleet carrier (true, it was acquired from Russia and refurbished, but more are on the way); a fifth-generation fighter is undergoing flight testing, and new ballistic missiles and submarines are entering operational service as well. Couple that with improvements in ISR and air defense, and it’s clear that Beijing is building military forces that can exert influence on the world stage.

    former spook. And they are busy sending students here to try and help them steal a thing or two from us.


  97. 97 | January 30, 2013 3:34 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ 1389AD:
    sure.

    Thanks very much!


  98. The Osprey
    98 | January 30, 2013 3:50 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Zimbabwe could solve its problems by importing North Korean guest workers.

    The last North Korean guest workers in Zimbabwe were military advisers who trained Mugabe’s 5th Brigade before they were unleashed on his rivals in the Matabele tribe during the “Gukurahundi” Matabeleland massacres.


  99. Speranza
    99 | January 30, 2013 6:12 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:
    Zimbabwe could solve its problems by importing North Korean guest workers.

    The last North Korean guest workers in Zimbabwe were military advisers who trained Mugabe’s 5th Brigade before they were unleashed on his rivals in the Matabele tribe during the “Gukurahundi” Matabeleland massacres.

    They (the NORKS) probably had their last good meal there.


  100. Speranza
    100 | January 30, 2013 6:13 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    And they are busy sending students here to try and help them steal a thing or two from us.

    Clinton just gave it to them.


  101. The Osprey
    101 | January 31, 2013 1:26 am


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