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Meet Norman Borlaug: The Man Who Saved Billions From Starvation

by Flyovercountry ( 129 Comments › )
Filed under Uncategorized at February 19th, 2013 - 4:00 pm

In 1970, back in the days when the Nobel Prize meant something other than that award which is given to the greatest conservative hating liberal in the room at the time, Norman Borlaug won the Peace Prize, but he actually deserved one for a scientific field as well. His advancements in genetically engineered crops and inorganic farming methods you see were credited with saving over 1 Billion lives from the agony of death by starvation. That’s a Billion, with a B.

There is a reason why I bring Norman’s story up today, besides the fact that he clearly deserves to have his story told. (To see the impact of Borlaug, on your travels this week, look at everyone you see, and say to yourself, only half of every person you see would be alive today were it not for Borlaug. That’s about one half of every man, woman, and child, who live on our planet today, are able to avoid death due to starvation thanks to the scientific advances made by this one person.) Last week I saw on my favorite bad news feed, facebook, (my principle complaint about facebook is that it seems to have turned many of the people I know into teenage girls,) a plug for outlawing foodstuffs not developed through completely organic methods and materials, and leveling criminal charges against companies such as Monsanto and Cargill, for using genetically enhanced products.

There comes a point in time when stupidity, albeit accidentally, crosses into the realm of evil, and this is one of those points in our history. I choose to thank God for Monsanto and Cargill, they go about the thankless task each and every day of providing enough food to feed the world, and they do it so well that thankless hippies are able to spend their time not farming or producing anything of value on their own, but actually protesting those giants who do feed the world. We are able to involve ourselves in nonsensical activities precisely because the Monsanto’s of the world have made our lives easier. We have the wealth of technology here in America to be able to spend an inordinate amount of time not working at feeding ourselves, but instead complaining about those who do.

Farming our current supply of arable land using only organic farming methods will provide enough food to feed a little more than half of the world’s population today. Seven years ago, it would have fed 2/3rds. As an experiment dear hippies, please tell the rest of us who you believe deserves to starve to death, for no other reason than to satisfy your desire to have your ideas become economically viable.

It is one thing to make the personal choice to pay extra for the laughably false claims made by advocates of organic farming. That’s the decision of the individual to make, and it’s none of my business what other people decide for themselves. That is no longer true however when other people conspire to take my choices away from me. I do not desire to pay the prices of organic farming personally. It is an inefficient method of food production that increases the cost of groceries by up to 300%, and adds nothing of value to the quality. The lies told to support the claims of this farming method’s virtues have been so thoroughly debunked, that its almost embarrassing to keep hearing those claims, and I’m not even the one making them. Make no mistake however, the lies told to support the organic methodology at this point in our tale merely moved us from stupidity to annoyance. Our journey is only half complete.

Where we move to evil is with the sudden revelation that somehow, the pollen from inorganic crops have contaminated the virgin seeds of the organic farmer, tainting their food. Through this, these fine folk have clogged up our court systems in an effort to inflict organic only crops on the rest of the world. Using scare tactics, baloney science, fabrications, and an overzealous regulatory apparatus, the organic food advocates have undertaken to force the mass starvation of half of the world’s population.

So, just to pose the question, where would 3.5 Billion deaths place these people on the list of the world’s greatest mass murderers? It’s not that I despise all liberals, as many of my best friends and family are left of center politically. It’s their complete disconnect from the consequences reaped by their lunacy that irks me so. Once upon a time we used a substance called DDT in America. As a direct result we eliminated Malaria, Bed Bugs, and other diseases from the list of things we had to worry about each morning upon awakening. Rachel Carson wrote a book entitled, “Silent Spring.” (As a side note, any book with such an obvious emotional appeal being used for its title, should be automatically suspect if being touted as a scientific endeavor. The science of her work has been thoroughly debunked, and yet here we are, still without the substance that saved us from Malaria.) Bed bugs are making a comeback, and to date, since the banning of DDT in the third world before the mosquito populations of those countries could be quelled as they were here, 50 Million people to date have died of Malaria. This places Rachel Carson and her loyal band of envirozealots at the very tippy top of the mass murderers pyramid. Never being held to account for their atrocities, these same geniuses have moved onto the realm of global warming scare mongering and are now demanding that we save ourselves from technological advancements in the world of agriculture.

Life expectancies are double in nations with reliable electricity grids that can sustain refrigeration for the bulk of their populations than in nations that can not. This seems to be the dividing line, and the global warming zealots are seeking to make it more difficult for third world nations to join the former group, and at the same time seeking to remove those already with that benefit from that position. That makes them evil as well. Those of us who oppose the left’s agenda will very often be labeled as Nazi’s by them. I find this pernicious for a few reasons. One, it diminishes the evil once perpetrated by the Nazi’s, and they do this every time a political disagreement occurs. Two, it is nothing more than an ad hominem attack designed to deflect the intellectual depravity of one’s own argument, it is used to simply dismiss ideas as not even being worthy of consideration. Three, it is a liable that connotes an evil intention where the opposite is true.

I would never label these envirozealots as Nazi’s however, as the crimes they are attempting to perpetrate against humanity make those committed by the Nazi regimes pale in comparison. While I have no doubt as to the sincerity of their beliefs that they are effecting a positive change for humanity, the results are somewhat different. They are attempting, whether they realize it or not, to starve, cause food poisoning, or inflict with disease, 3.5 Billion of their fellow man. How does that compare with the Nazi’s?

In the end, Liberalism is about forcing others to act according to the will of the liberals self anointed to be our elite leaders, and not as they would wish to. In the end, Liberals are willing to kill off half the planet in order to affect this change. That in my book constitutes evil.

By the way, Norman Borlaug is also considered to be the father of the modern day Green Movement. Revolutions do indeed eat their young.

Cross Posted from Musings of a Mad Conservative.

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129 Responses to “Meet Norman Borlaug: The Man Who Saved Billions From Starvation”
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  1. 1 | February 19, 2013 4:08 pm

    Please, remember all that we are mostly friends here. For some reason, I believe that this post will bring out the emotional in many of us. The last thing I want to do is to be responsible for discussion becoming vendetta or worse. All I am asking is that the discourse remain respectful and arguments kept cogent. Say what you have to, but remember that someone’s mother is reading this. Thank you in advance for your consideration.


  2. 2 | February 19, 2013 4:18 pm

    On the topic of GM food, here’s my Representative, Jared Polis; meddling again. This bill “would require food containing genetically modified organisms to be clearly identified”. He’s kicking it off in a market in downtown Boulder, making sure that everyone knows he’s a hero and celebrity.

    The effort will itself raise the cost of food, and will also help communist theme-parks for rich people (like Boulder) to punish proles I mean, supermarkets.


  3. Da_Beerfreak
    3 | February 19, 2013 5:26 pm

    The only ‘Green’ that the green movement is interested in is other people’s money. With money they can buy influence. They are just one of many totalitarian movements seeking power over how people live their lives.


  4. heysoos
    4 | February 19, 2013 5:37 pm

    I only eat Beef-O-Roni….
    fried
    boiled
    raw


  5. heysoos
    5 | February 19, 2013 5:42 pm

    sub Saharan Africa cannot feed itself because there is no infrastructure…that’s where the Hyperion comes in…it will pump water from deep underground and move it wherever it’s needed, plus provide electricity to the rural folk…google Hyperion…it’s just sitting there waiting for production license…people are starving because American liberals are scared to death of nuclear power…it’s really that simple


  6. sk (skzion)
    6 | February 19, 2013 5:49 pm

    Flyovercountry wrote:

    For some reason, I believe that this post will bring out the emotional in many of us.

    Well, it surely brought out the emotional in you! :)

    Surely you are right regarding DDT, though I wouldn’t want it to be used here now. But its banning in the Third World was a total, utter disaster in terms of lives lost. The same can be said regarding genetically modified crops. I would generally prefer not to eat them, but then I can afford not to.


  7. sk (skzion)
    7 | February 19, 2013 5:51 pm

    One thing, though, Flyovercountry: our vegetables and fruits are AWFUL, and they are horrendously overpriced. This was brought home to me yet again when I was in France (yeah, it’s true) recently. I’m not convinced that their price would triple with organic methods.


  8. lobo91
    8 | February 19, 2013 5:52 pm

    @ heysoos:

    Actually, the problems in sub-Saharan Africa are much simpler than that.

    Their problems are caused by having idiots in charge.

    Nobody was starving when the evil white Europeans were running things.


  9. The Osprey
    9 | February 19, 2013 5:52 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    sub Saharan Africa cannot feed itself because there is no infrastructure…that’s where the Hyperion comes in…it will pump water from deep underground and move it wherever it’s needed, plus provide electricity to the rural folk…google Hyperion…it’s just sitting there waiting for production license…people are starving because American liberals are scared to death of nuclear power…it’s really that simple

    Maybe they need to stop killing or chasing off the only people who understand how to do large scale agriculture before they worry about buying nuclear reactors.


  10. lobo91
    10 | February 19, 2013 5:53 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    Maybe they need to stop killing or chasing off the only people who understand how to do large scale agriculture before they worry about buying nuclear reactors.

    Exactly


  11. heysoos
    11 | February 19, 2013 6:00 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    sub Saharan Africa cannot feed itself because there is no infrastructure…that’s where the Hyperion comes in…it will pump water from deep underground and move it wherever it’s needed, plus provide electricity to the rural folk…google Hyperion…it’s just sitting there waiting for production license…people are starving because American liberals are scared to death of nuclear power…it’s really that simple

    Maybe they need to stop killing or chasing off the only people who understand how to do large scale agriculture before they worry about buying nuclear reactors.

    true enough but that was not the point of my post…the tech is there


  12. lobo91
    12 | February 19, 2013 6:02 pm

    Bret Baier is going to be on the White House shit list again.

    He used the phrase “cuts in spending growth” twice in opening his first story.


  13. buzzsawmonkey
    13 | February 19, 2013 6:04 pm

    sk (skzion) wrote:

    One thing, though, Flyovercountry: our vegetables and fruits are AWFUL, and they are horrendously overpriced. This was brought home to me yet again when I was in France (yeah, it’s true) recently. I’m not convinced that their price would triple with organic methods.

    “Organic methods” = losing lots more produce to pests, and increasing the risk of E.coli infections because real live manure is…manure. In other words, shit. Plants don’t care if their nitrogen comes from shit or from commercial fertilizer; only hippies, who are dumber than plants, do.

    Remember, too, that France has a population of 65.5 million, and an area of 260,000 square miles, compared with the 330 million people and 3,794,000 square miles that comprise the US. In a dinky country with a relatively small population, it is easy to grow legacy vegetables and get them to market before they spoil, compared with doing so in a large country like the United States.


  14. Da_Beerfreak
    14 | February 19, 2013 6:11 pm

    Every time I see the “Organic” label I think there’s another Fools magnet waiting to be picked up by the next fool to came along… :twisted:


  15. Da_Beerfreak
    15 | February 19, 2013 6:14 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Bret Baier is going to be on the White House shit list again.

    He used the phrase “cuts in spending growth” twice in opening his first story.

    That will surely cost him a potato…


  16. whosoever
    16 | February 19, 2013 6:17 pm

    My adopted son is 9. His mother died when he was 9 mos. old of a mosquito bite (Horn of Africa).
    So the DDT issue is near and dear to my heart.


  17. heysoos
    17 | February 19, 2013 6:17 pm

    eat, drink and be merry…
    all this bullshit regarding fertilizer and frankenstein beans upsets my gastrovibe…don’t eat if you can’t stand artificialchokes


  18. whosoever
    18 | February 19, 2013 6:17 pm

    Only 8 years ago in our modern times.


  19. buzzsawmonkey
    19 | February 19, 2013 6:21 pm

    Did somebody say, “organic?”


  20. lobo91
    20 | February 19, 2013 6:21 pm

    whosoever wrote:

    My adopted son is 9. His mother died when he was 9 mos. old of a mosquito bite (Horn of Africa).
    So the DDT issue is near and dear to my heart.

    DDT is perfectly safe when used according to the label.

    The problem was people using too much of it.


  21. buzzsawmonkey
    21 | February 19, 2013 6:22 pm

    Or, if you prefer a little soul food…


  22. heysoos
    22 | February 19, 2013 6:23 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    sort of a sonic Pong…I like it


  23. sk (skzion)
    23 | February 19, 2013 6:31 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Remember, too, that France has a population of 65.5 million, and an area of 260,000 square miles, compared with the 330 million people and 3,794,000 square miles that comprise the US. In a dinky country with a relatively small population, it is easy to grow legacy vegetables and get them to market before they spoil

    Well, I guess this is a tangent … but our own population is highly concentrated--even more so than in France, I think. But we pay a lot of money for fruits and vegetables even though, unlike France, we have land that is suitable for farming all year round.

    It’s politics (as usual) that has led to farming becoming so centralized. And if it is so centralized, produce will be specially designed to weather shipping and storage. In France, the politics favors the smaller farmer, as it does in Italy.

    If our food really were much cheaper than in these countries, I’d understand.


  24. buzzsawmonkey
    24 | February 19, 2013 6:34 pm

    sk (skzion) wrote:

    If our food really were much cheaper than in these countries, I’d understand.

    First thing you have to look into is how much the food is subsidized. French bread is marvelous; baguettes are cheap and delicious there—because there is a government-imposed price limit on them.

    Which means that the yummy cheap baguette is paid for by taxing the population at fifty percent or more. They’re still paying for it, just not at the bakery counter.


  25. yenta-fada
    25 | February 19, 2013 6:35 pm

    I get emails all the time from my ‘pure food’ friends. Most of them threaten all the dire things that will happen to you if you don’t get enough magnesium/raw milk/living foods/extra virgin coconut oil/. Then they tell you that the soils are bad, the seeds are bad, cellphones are bad/you can get cancer from too much soy, etc.
    It’s scary out there…..
    They plan to live forever.


  26. buzzsawmonkey
    26 | February 19, 2013 6:36 pm

    yenta-fada wrote:

    They plan to live forever.

    Actually, no; they just plan to make it seem like forever because they are so miserable while they’re alive.


  27. lobo91
    27 | February 19, 2013 6:36 pm

    @ yenta-fada:

    It’s scary out there…..
    They plan to live forever.

    Never mind the fact that life expectancy is much higher today than it was even a century ago, before all that evil stuff they hate was invented.


  28. lobo91
    28 | February 19, 2013 6:37 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    yenta-fada wrote:
    They plan to live forever.
    Actually, no; they just plan to make it seem like forever because they are so miserable while they’re alive.

    And their mission is to make the rest of us just as miserable.


  29. yenta-fada
    29 | February 19, 2013 6:38 pm

    Eaglesoars knows a great deal about agriculture in the U.S. Too bad she’s not around for this thread.


  30. Bumr50
    30 | February 19, 2013 6:39 pm

    How about a little Bump & Sway?


  31. yenta-fada
    31 | February 19, 2013 6:39 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    yenta-fada wrote:
    They plan to live forever.
    Actually, no; they just plan to make it seem like forever because they are so miserable while they’re alive.

    They are Utopians. sigh.


  32. buzzsawmonkey
    32 | February 19, 2013 6:41 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    And their mission is to make the rest of us just as miserable.

    I can’t remember who it was who said, “Veganism is a dietary regimen that requires you to start each meal by informing your fellow-diners of your moral superiority.”


  33. waldensianspirit
    33 | February 19, 2013 6:42 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Mooch plans to live forever carrying two shoats in a burlap bag


  34. buzzsawmonkey
    34 | February 19, 2013 6:44 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Mooch plans to live forever carrying two shoats in a burlap bag

    Who likes shoat shoats?
    She likes shoat shoats…


  35. yenta-fada
    35 | February 19, 2013 6:44 pm

    The other side of this debate is the rather questionable company kept by Agricultural giants. Keith Ellison? Think Progress? Some gray areas.

    http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/02/19/1607161/monsanto-supreme-court-hearing/?mobile=nc


  36. buzzsawmonkey
    36 | February 19, 2013 6:45 pm

    yenta-fada wrote:

    Agricultural giants.

    Jolly! Green! Ho, ho, ho!


  37. yenta-fada
    37 | February 19, 2013 6:50 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    yenta-fada wrote:
    Agricultural giants.
    Jolly! Green! Ho, ho, ho!

    I thought a Ho ho was like a ding dong.


  38. lobo91
    38 | February 19, 2013 6:52 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    If Obama, Gore, and the rest of the far left get their way, we’ll be living in tiny cubicles with no heat or electricity, cooking bug-infested vegetables over dung fires, with no medical care.

    Sounds like the Dark Ages.

    If the Muslims get their way, the results will be about the same, except that we’ll be expected to bang our heads on the floor in worship of their god 5 times a day, as well.

    How did we get to the point where those are two viable possibilities for our future?


  39. buzzsawmonkey
    39 | February 19, 2013 6:52 pm

    yenta-fada wrote:

    I thought a Ho ho was like a ding dong.

    No, no—you hires the ho ho to have someplace to put your ding dong.


  40. 40 | February 19, 2013 6:59 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Pol Pot’s Cambodia was the blueprint for the Green Movement.


  41. brookly red
    41 | February 19, 2013 7:01 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    Pol Pot’s Cambodia was the blueprint for the Green Movement.

    /back to the beginning! err, I mean, err hope and change!


  42. sk (skzion)
    42 | February 19, 2013 7:02 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    First thing you have to look into is how much the food is subsidized.

    Fair enough. But don’t we subsidize our food producers an awful lot?


  43. buzzsawmonkey
    43 | February 19, 2013 7:03 pm

    sk (skzion) wrote:

    But don’t we subsidize our food producers an awful lot?

    Not the way the French do.


  44. huckfunn
    44 | February 19, 2013 7:04 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    yenta-fada wrote:

    I thought a Ho ho was like a ding dong.

    No, no—you hires the ho ho to have someplace to put your ding dong.

    Haha!


  45. heysoos
    45 | February 19, 2013 7:05 pm

    sk (skzion) wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:
    First thing you have to look into is how much the food is subsidized.
    Fair enough. But don’t we subsidize our food producers an awful lot?

    yes, and we burn a lot of tortillas for it


  46. sk (skzion)
    46 | February 19, 2013 7:07 pm

    yenta-fada wrote:

    Eaglesoars knows a great deal about agriculture in the U.S. Too bad she’s not around for this thread.

    I’d be interested in her info. If I had more room, I’d grow most produce myself, with heirloom seeds. It doesn’t take that much room--but more than I have.

    Oh, and I’d grow things hydroponically, not organically. It just happens to be that “organic” varieties are more often heirloom varieties. I noticed a couple of weeks ago that some “exotic” organic lettuce I was buying (not *too* expensive) happened to be homey, heirloom varieties.


  47. heysoos
    47 | February 19, 2013 7:07 pm

    my green car gets 42 tppd


  48. citizen_q
    48 | February 19, 2013 7:14 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    And their mission is to make the rest of us just as miserable.
    I can’t remember who it was who said, “Veganism is a dietary regimen that requires you to start each meal by informing your fellow-diners of your moral superiority.”

    That comment reminds of my cousins daughter, who is a strict vegan. Won’t eat anything that comes from an animal. She’s been hospitalized several times with symptoms described to me by my cousin that sounded to my layman’s ears like the results of long term malnutrition.


  49. Bumr50
    49 | February 19, 2013 7:14 pm

    The DirecTV Genie is hot.


  50. brookly red
    50 | February 19, 2013 7:19 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    And their mission is to make the rest of us just as miserable.
    I can’t remember who it was who said, “Veganism is a dietary regimen that requires you to start each meal by informing your fellow-diners of your moral superiority.”

    That comment reminds of my cousins daughter, who is a strict vegan. Won’t eat anything that comes from an animal. She’s been hospitalized several times with symptoms described to me by my cousin that sounded to my layman’s ears like the results of long term malnutrition.

    you could have a vegan with and eating disorder… that can be dangerous.


  51. Guggi
    51 | February 19, 2013 7:21 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Which means that the yummy cheap baguette is paid for by taxing the population at fifty percent or more. They’re still paying for it, just not at the bakery counter.

    France is the largest beneficiary of EU farm subsidies, which account for about 40 percent of the bloc’s budget (Euro 372.2 Billion). The other 26 countries get the rest.


  52. brookly red
    52 | February 19, 2013 7:22 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Which means that the yummy cheap baguette is paid for by taxing the population at fifty percent or more. They’re still paying for it, just not at the bakery counter.

    France is the largest beneficiary of EU farm subsidies, which account for about 40 percent of the bloc’s budget (Euro 372.2 Billion). The other 26 countries get the rest.

    Huh, and yet food is very expensive there?


  53. lobo91
    53 | February 19, 2013 7:23 pm

    Goracle Blames MSM For Global Warming…

    Former Vice President Al Gore says the American media and outsize effect of corporate money in politics are partially to blame for inaction on global climate change.

    In wide-ranging remarks during an appearance Monday evening at the Clinton Presidential Library, Gore said journalists should have done a better job questioning the 2012 presidential candidates about climate change. He railed against what he called the corrupting influence of money in politics.

    Okay, now I’m confused.

    The MSM did it’s part to get Obama re-elected. He’s going along with the Global Warming scam.

    Does he think Romney would have been better for his cause?


  54. brookly red
    54 | February 19, 2013 7:25 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Goracle Blames MSM For Global Warming…

    Former Vice President Al Gore says the American media and outsize effect of corporate money in politics are partially to blame for inaction on global climate change.

    In wide-ranging remarks during an appearance Monday evening at the Clinton Presidential Library, Gore said journalists should have done a better job questioning the 2012 presidential candidates about climate change. He railed against what he called the corrupting influence of money in politics.

    Okay, now I’m confused.

    The MSM did it’s part to get Obama re-elected. He’s going along with the Global Warming scam.

    Does he think Romney would have been better for his cause?

    no… he just wants to seem anti-establishment. He IS his own cause


  55. buzzsawmonkey
    55 | February 19, 2013 7:25 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    That comment reminds of my cousins daughter, who is a strict vegan. Won’t eat anything that comes from an animal. She’s been hospitalized several times with symptoms described to me by my cousin that sounded to my layman’s ears like the results of long term malnutrition.

    There were several instances in New York, a few years ago, of vegan nuts who starved their children to death because God forbid they should permit the baby to have milk.


  56. The Osprey
    56 | February 19, 2013 7:26 pm

    @ yenta-fada:


  57. lobo91
    57 | February 19, 2013 7:27 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    There were several instances in New York, a few years ago, of vegan nuts who starved their children to death because God forbid they should permit the baby to have milk.

    Liberalism truly is a mental disease.


  58. lobo91
    58 | February 19, 2013 7:29 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Only in America do we have obese poor people and rich people who starve to death.


  59. The Osprey
    59 | February 19, 2013 7:29 pm

    Joe Jackson vs the Nanny State:


  60. Guggi
    60 | February 19, 2013 7:29 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Huh, and yet food is very expensive there?

    Yep. Germany is the country with the lowest food prices compared to income in the EU.


  61. brookly red
    61 | February 19, 2013 7:30 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    There were several instances in New York, a few years ago, of vegan nuts who starved their children to death because God forbid they should permit the baby to have milk.

    Liberalism truly is a mental disease.

    we should try this experimental program we have in NYC :)


  62. brookly red
    62 | February 19, 2013 7:30 pm

    NY Post


  63. citizen_q
    63 | February 19, 2013 7:33 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    you could have a vegan with and eating disorder… that can be dangerous.

    Had not considered that, but she stuck with her principals thought it looked to me like it might kill her.

    On the one hand I admire her sticking what she believes, on the other it is nuts to starve yourself to serious health issues.


  64. lobo91
    64 | February 19, 2013 7:35 pm

    @ citizen_q:

    On the one hand I admire her sticking what she believes, on the other it is nuts to starve yourself to serious health issues.

    Not if what you believe is stupid and demonstrably dangerous.


  65. brookly red
    65 | February 19, 2013 7:35 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    you could have a vegan with and eating disorder… that can be dangerous.

    Had not considered that, but she stuck with her principals thought it looked to me like it might kill her.

    On the one hand I admire her sticking what she believes, on the other it is nuts to starve yourself to serious health issues.

    hey you can survive just fine vegan IF you eat enough. If malnutrition is present I am thinking a touch of anorexia too perhaps?


  66. citizen_q
    66 | February 19, 2013 7:37 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Another aspect I had not considered.

    I must say, typing one handed is the pits.


  67. citizen_q
    67 | February 19, 2013 7:39 pm

    Later, dinner!

    Featuring chicken as the main critter to be consumed.


  68. lobo91
    68 | February 19, 2013 7:39 pm

    @ citizen_q:

    I must say, typing one handed is the pits.

    CJ’s been doing it for years.

    Although not due to hand surgery…
    //


  69. brookly red
    69 | February 19, 2013 7:41 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    if what you believe is stupid and demonstrably dangerous

    … you could be a liberal?


  70. brookly red
    70 | February 19, 2013 7:43 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ citizen_q:

    I must say, typing one handed is the pits.

    CJ’s been doing it for years.

    Although not due to hand surgery…
    //

    ewww


  71. lobo91
    71 | February 19, 2013 7:44 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Ever seen someone try to turn a German Shepherd into a vegan?

    I have.

    //Santa Fe


  72. brookly red
    72 | February 19, 2013 7:47 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    Ever seen someone try to turn a German Shepherd into a vegan?

    I have.

    //Santa Fe

    well seriously a lot of kibble is actually completely meat free many working dogs are in fact vegan albeit not by choice.


  73. lobo91
    73 | February 19, 2013 7:52 pm

    @ brookly red:

    well seriously a lot of kibble is actually completely meat free many working dogs are in fact vegan albeit not by choice.

    Not any of the good brands. Crap from China, maybe.


  74. 74 | February 19, 2013 7:56 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    Ever seen someone try to turn a German Shepherd into a vegan?
    I have.
    //Santa Fe

    But do you have video… that might be amusing to watch. :twisted:


  75. 75 | February 19, 2013 7:58 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    well seriously a lot of kibble is actually completely meat free many working dogs are in fact vegan albeit not by choice.

    Turning your dog into a Vegan is a good way to kill your dog in a rather spectacularly painful manner.


  76. brookly red
    76 | February 19, 2013 7:58 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    well seriously a lot of kibble is actually completely meat free many working dogs are in fact vegan albeit not by choice.

    Not any of the good brands. Crap from China, maybe.

    sick as it may be very expensive brands… http://v-dog.com/


  77. brookly red
    77 | February 19, 2013 7:59 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    Turning your dog into a Vegan is a good way to kill your dog in a rather spectacularly painful manner.

    I would never think of such a thing…


  78. 78 | February 19, 2013 8:07 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    Turning your dog into a Vegan is a good way to kill your dog in a rather spectacularly painful manner.
    I would never think of such a thing…

    Neither human beings nor dogs evolved to be Vegan’s. It’s that simple, for a human being their are 8 amino acids that if you do not get, you get a disease related to Scurvy that kills you in an excruciatingly painful manner. It takes about 8 years, but once you have reached a certain point, there is nothing that can be done to save you. ALL vegetarians and Vegans have to take special supplements to avoid contracting this disease, 99% of them pretend that their supplements come from bean sprouts. They do not. 99% of the time those supplements actually come from Chicken embryo’s.


  79. darkwords
    79 | February 19, 2013 8:08 pm

    @ 55 buzzsawmonkey:
    A lot of vegans cheat. And get irate when someone comes clean that they can’t live on a vegan diet. No doubt a few people can. A few.


  80. lobo91
    80 | February 19, 2013 8:09 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Of course it’s expensive. Yes, it’s possible to feed a dog a vegan diet and keep it alive, but it’s going to cost a lot. Animal protein is relatively cheap, especially when you’re talking about pet food. They don’t really care what it looks like, after all. That’s why much of it’s made from stuff that would otherwise be waste products that humans won’t eat.

    I think the idea of feeding a dog something that’s completely unnatural for them is ridiculous, though. Dogs like to eat meat. They don’t understand their owners’ silly ideas about “morality.”


  81. 81 | February 19, 2013 8:09 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 55 buzzsawmonkey:
    A lot of vegans cheat. And get irate when someone comes clean that they can’t live on a vegan diet. No doubt a few people can. A few.

    No, they cannot, not for long anyway.


  82. heysoos
    82 | February 19, 2013 8:09 pm

    that fiet you ate last night?
    was Trigger


  83. 83 | February 19, 2013 8:11 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    that fiet you ate last night?
    was Trigger

    Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it. :twisted:


  84. lobo91
    84 | February 19, 2013 8:11 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    At least most people aren’t dumb enough to try to turn cats into vegans.

    That’s a good way to end up with an ex-cat.


  85. brookly red
    85 | February 19, 2013 8:12 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    Turning your dog into a Vegan is a good way to kill your dog in a rather spectacularly painful manner.
    I would never think of such a thing…

    Neither human beings nor dogs evolved to be Vegan’s. It’s that simple, for a human being their are 8 amino acids that if you do not get, you get a disease related to Scurvy that kills you in an excruciatingly painful manner. It takes about 8 years, but once you have reached a certain point, there is nothing that can be done to save you. ALL vegetarians and Vegans have to take special supplements to avoid contracting this disease, 99% of them pretend that their supplements come from bean sprouts. They do not. 99% of the time those supplements actually come from Chicken embryo’s.

    well I don’t endorse being vegan (I am not one) but seriously if you say all vegetarians take special supplements I got 300 Million Indians that wanna see that link :)


  86. lobo91
    86 | February 19, 2013 8:16 pm

    What the hell are they putting in the water in Denver?

    Colorado Democrat: Ballpoint Pens Better Than Guns At Stopping A Crazed Shooter…


  87. brookly red
    87 | February 19, 2013 8:16 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    that fiet you ate last night?
    was Trigger

    I had Nemo sushi :)


  88. citizen_q
    88 | February 19, 2013 8:16 pm

    @ lobo91:
    Trying to wrap my head around what kind of kook would try to force their dog to be vegan………..

    Not working.


  89. brookly red
    89 | February 19, 2013 8:18 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    What the hell are they putting in the water in Denver?

    Colorado Democrat: Ballpoint Pens Better Than Guns At Stopping A Crazed Shooter…

    when the cops carry only pens I will believe that.


  90. lobo91
    90 | February 19, 2013 8:19 pm

    @ brookly red:

    I suppose it makes more sense than telling people to vomit on themselves…

    But not much.


  91. darkwords
    91 | February 19, 2013 8:20 pm

    A GMO Red Delicious apple from Washington state is not palatable. A natural apple from any tree in Mexico with a few worms in it is immensely more healthy than the GMO brand. Big Ad does not design for the health of the individual. A lot of the modern industrial diseases gaining steam like type II diabetes are related to GMO work. HFC.

    No one really knows the effect of GMO foods on the genetic evolution of the human race. It’s an experiment in progress. I grew up next to DeKalb, GMO food has been around forever. It’s probably in everything we eat.

    What we see then is huge ag debts as fields are designed to be maxed out from dirt road fence line to dirt road fence line. Old farming practices are discarded. Erosion increases. Large investments are needed in fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides to produce a maximum crop.

    Turkeys are no longer lean mean fighting machines but fat pieces of meat that will drown if it rains on them.

    Lots of hidden issues with GMO. But the jury is out I think on whether or not its better or worse than ogranic.


  92. lobo91
    92 | February 19, 2013 8:20 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    Trying to wrap my head around what kind of kook would try to force their dog to be vegan………..
    Not working.

    One of the reasons I no longer live in Santa Fe.


  93. 93 | February 19, 2013 8:21 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    I got 300 Million Indians that wanna see that link :)

    No, you only deceive yourself into thinking that you do. The Hindu version of being a vegetarian obviously isn’t what you think it is. The Hindu version of vegetarianism does not 100 percent exclude all “meat”. Shellfish, fish and fowl and reptiles are not included in the “Meat” they do not eat. All of which will provide you with those 8 amino acids.


  94. brookly red
    94 | February 19, 2013 8:21 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    Trying to wrap my head around what kind of kook would try to force their dog to be vegan………..

    Not working.

    the same kinda kook that makes their son play with dolls…


  95. brookly red
    95 | February 19, 2013 8:22 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    I got 300 Million Indians that wanna see that link

    No, you only deceive yourself into thinking that you do. The Hindu version of being a vegetarian obviously isn’t what you think it is. The Hindu version of vegetarianism does not 100 percent exclude all “meat”. Shellfish, fish and fowl and reptiles are not included in the “Meat” they do not eat. All of which will provide you with those 8 amino acids.

    Fish? well that could explain why I am not dead yet…


  96. lobo91
    96 | February 19, 2013 8:23 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    citizen_q wrote:
    @ lobo91:
    Trying to wrap my head around what kind of kook would try to force their dog to be vegan………..
    Not working.
    the same kinda kook that makes their son play with dolls…

    Or tries to fight off someone who has a gun by using a pen.


  97. 97 | February 19, 2013 8:24 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    A GMO Red Delicious apple from Washington state is not palatable. A natural apple from any tree in Mexico with a few worms in it is immensely more healthy than the GMO brand. Big Ad does not design for the health of the individual. A lot of the modern industrial diseases gaining steam like type II diabetes are related to GMO work. HFC.
    No one really knows the effect of GMO foods on the genetic evolution of the human race. It’s an experiment in progress. I grew up next to DeKalb, GMO food has been around forever. It’s probably in everything we eat.
    What we see then is huge ag debts as fields are designed to be maxed out from dirt road fence line to dirt road fence line. Old farming practices are discarded. Erosion increases. Large investments are needed in fertilizers, herbicides, and pesticides to produce a maximum crop.
    Turkeys are no longer lean mean fighting machines but fat pieces of meat that will drown if it rains on them.
    Lots of hidden issues with GMO. But the jury is out I think on whether or not its better or worse than ogranic.

    Humans have been genetically modifying foods for at least 10,000 years. Contrary to what you think you know about GMO foods and how it is done, odds are you are wrong.


  98. darkwords
    98 | February 19, 2013 8:25 pm

    @ 57 lobo91:
    There has to be a shrink term for that type of lib. I think I see them a lot. An educated crackpot who thinks he is right no matter what anyone else says. Like these mass shooters. Insane but have a functioning reality. I see them in the women’s rights movements, in global warming, in animal rights, and in the vegan stuff.

    It’s actually a type of personality that needs to be physically slapped a few times. They have lost touch with reality.


  99. darkwords
    99 | February 19, 2013 8:27 pm

    @ doriangrey:

    Taking 10,000 years to do a slow evolving cycle is fine. Forcing it all into a lab and injecting it into one generation is playing fire with mother nature. No human can predict the consequences of that. Such was the nature of human psychology in the 50′s and 60′s. Lots of errors released on the population.


  100. 100 | February 19, 2013 8:28 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    brookly red wrote:
    I got 300 Million Indians that wanna see that link
    No, you only deceive yourself into thinking that you do. The Hindu version of being a vegetarian obviously isn’t what you think it is. The Hindu version of vegetarianism does not 100 percent exclude all “meat”. Shellfish, fish and fowl and reptiles are not included in the “Meat” they do not eat. All of which will provide you with those 8 amino acids.

    Fish? well that could explain why I am not dead yet…

    You can also get those amino acids from insects and from certain bacteria and yeast cultures, in other words, from certain cheeses, beers and yogurts.


  101. 101 | February 19, 2013 8:30 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Taking 10,000 years to do a slow evolving cycle is fine. Forcing it all into a lab and injecting it into one generation is playing fire with mother nature. No human can predict the consequences of that. Such was the nature of human psychology in the 50′s and 60′s. Lots of errors released on the population.

    See, that’s what I mean. That isn’t how GMO is done. There is no gene splicing in the production of GMO, it’s all selective cross pollination.


  102. darkwords
    102 | February 19, 2013 8:30 pm

    @ 93 doriangrey:

    There is no such thing as a vegan

    I tend to agree, then most vegan are actually something different.


  103. citizen_q
    103 | February 19, 2013 8:32 pm

    @ brookly red:
    You’re not talking about “action figures” or G.I. Joes are you?


  104. darkwords
  105. brookly red
    105 | February 19, 2013 8:32 pm

    doriangrey wrote:

    from certain cheeses, beers and yogurts.

    I told you pizza and beer is good for you… but seriously there are millions of vegans alive and well and breeding like flies. Still waiting for that link.


  106. lobo91
    106 | February 19, 2013 8:32 pm

    @ darkwords:

    There have always been crackpots, and there always will be.

    The problem is when they get to be in charge. It never goes well.


  107. darkwords
    107 | February 19, 2013 8:34 pm

    @ darkwords:
    A genetically engineered plants is generated in a laboratory by altering its genetic makeup. This is usually done by adding one or more genes to a plant’s genome using genetic engineering techniques.[20] Most genetically modified plants are generated by the biolistic method (particle gun) or by Agrobacterium tumefaciens mediated transformation. Plant scientists, backed by results of modern comprehensive profiling of crop composition, point out that crops modified using GM techniques are less likely to have unintended changes than are conventionally bred crops


  108. brookly red
    108 | February 19, 2013 8:34 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    You’re not talking about “action figures” or G.I. Joes are you?

    did I say action figures? No, I said dolls… how was the chicken?


  109. darkwords
    109 | February 19, 2013 8:35 pm

    @ darkwords:
    I’m fine if the monks do it, I don’t have confidence in the scientists.


  110. brookly red
    110 | February 19, 2013 8:36 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    The problem is when they get to be in charge. It never goes well.

    /going to jail for a 32oz soda boggles the mind.


  111. citizen_q
    111 | February 19, 2013 8:38 pm

    @ darkwords:
    Saw a show on one of the history channels talking about the mound building cultures. They mentioned that the Mississippian Indians bred corn into a viable plant for farming.


  112. citizen_q
    112 | February 19, 2013 8:43 pm

    @ brookly red:
    Just wanted to be sure. Wow, Boys are boys. Girls are girls. It’s a good thing

    The chicken was good. The wife made leftovers into a casserole. It was better the second time around.


  113. 113 | February 19, 2013 8:44 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Still waiting for that link.

    You are seriously kidding, right?

    How Can Vegetarians Make Sure They Get All of the Amino Acids They Need?

    Proteins are made up of amino acid molecules. These play an important role in metabolism and other body functions. Provided you eat a variety of different protein sources, there’s no reason your vegetarian diet should lack essential amino acids. Vegetarians can get protein from plant sources and vegetarian-friendly animal-based products. Vegans and strict vegetarians may need to take supplements or rely on soy foods, beans and nuts.
    Amino Acids

    Your body needs nine essential amino acids from food in order to make the right proteins. Proteins from animal products contain all nine of these amino acids, so they’re known as “complete” proteins. Many plant proteins do not contain all nine acids — making them “incomplete.” The challenge for vegetarians is to combine different plant foods or other food sources to gain all nine amino acids from their diet.
    Dairy

    Dairy products contain animal proteins, an important source of complete dietary amino acids. According to the Harvard School of Public Health, an average adult weighing 160 lbs. needs around 64 g of protein each day. Just two slices of cheese or 1/2 cup of cottage cheese contains 14 g of protein. Drinking a cup of skim milk gives you 8 g of protein. It’s possible for a vegetarian who includes dairy in his diet to easily get enough amino acids from dairy products alone.


  114. darkwords
    114 | February 19, 2013 8:45 pm

    GM crops are just rolling the dice faster. There will be good and bad effects. The population is a lot denser. Can the human race keep up? It might not have another choice.

    Dekalb corn can’t survive on it’s on and tastes horrible right out of the field. The native Indian corn tastes fine and is durable on it’s own, but won’t feed billions.

    If the economy and big ag fail, people will have a hard time finding seeds that work. The tradition will all be gone.


  115. brookly red
    115 | February 19, 2013 8:48 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    Just wanted to be sure. Wow, Boys are boys. Girls are girls. It’s a good thing

    The chicken was good. The wife made leftovers into a casserole. It was better the second time around.

    excellent, some foods are just better the next day… when I was in college I worked in an Italian restaurant, the chef/owner would never allow lasagna to be served the same day it was made… it needed to “set up” overnight.


  116. darkwords
    116 | February 19, 2013 8:49 pm

    @ 111 citizen_q: I always wonder when and how someone invented beer or bread or beef stew. And even corn. What did some neanderthal just decide to chew it one day and then make doritos the next day. I suppose that is how it went, people running around smelling and tasting everything in front of them. Famine probably drove some of the creation of modern foods.

    Dorien, I agree with you basically. No problem in shedding truth and light on something.


  117. darkwords
    117 | February 19, 2013 8:51 pm

    Interesting.

    Bananas have been developed, but are not in production, that produce human vaccines against infectious diseases such as Hepatitis B


  118. darkwords
    118 | February 19, 2013 8:52 pm

    Genetically modified plants have also been used for bioremediation of contaminated soils. Mercury, selenium and organic pollutants such as polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs), TNT and RDX explosive contaminants have been removed from soils by transgenic plants containing genes for bacterial enzymes

    Grass that removes pollution.


  119. brookly red
    119 | February 19, 2013 8:53 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 111 citizen_q: I always wonder when and how someone invented beer or bread or beef stew.

    Beer was a gift from God! don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.


  120. darkwords
    120 | February 19, 2013 8:56 pm

    Rice with Vitamin A in it.

    Golden Rice: genetically modified to contain beta-carotene (a source of vitamin A)


  121. brookly red
    121 | February 19, 2013 9:00 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    Rice with Vitamin A in it.

    Golden Rice: genetically modified to contain beta-carotene (a source of vitamin A)

    that one is intriguing to me… it is a serious preventer of blindness.


  122. darkwords
    122 | February 19, 2013 9:04 pm

    @ brookly red: Pizza that constructs itself out of leftovers in the fridge.


  123. 123 | February 19, 2013 9:06 pm

    New Thread


  124. yenta-fada
    124 | February 19, 2013 9:20 pm

    From the NY Post. Moochelle’s butt shuts down Aspen air space. /

    “One witness told us, “Michelle was with two big groups and were in Aspen all weekend. Both girls were skiing, one in blue and one in a purple coat, and black pants. Michelle was in a navy ski suit. There were crowds of security guards dressed in black around them, all parked off the bunny slopes. Michelle and the girls were mainly going out each morning before the lifts opened.”

    We’re told some wealthy Aspen visitors were annoyed when “air space was blocked because of [the Obamas’] plane, so others couldn’t get their private jets in. Many people nearly didn’t land or had to be diverted.” We’re told the Obama family stayed at the home of Aspen Ski Company owners Jim and Paula Crown, who are big Democratic donors. Their security team occupied another entire house next door.”


  125. 125 | February 19, 2013 9:23 pm

    Don’t be suprised if yo uge hate mail from Ed Darrell. he is out to preserve her legacy and the lies. he slithered out of the woodwork when I trashed on Mass Murderer and racist Rachel Carson in December of 2011.


  126. sk (skzion)
    126 | February 19, 2013 9:24 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Guggi wrote:
    buzzsawmonkey wrote:
    Which means that the yummy cheap baguette is paid for by taxing the population at fifty percent or more. They’re still paying for it, just not at the bakery counter.
    France is the largest beneficiary of EU farm subsidies, which account for about 40 percent of the bloc’s budget (Euro 372.2 Billion). The other 26 countries get the rest.

    Huh, and yet food is very expensive there?

    In fairness, food is NOT very expensive there, in terms of ingredients.


  127. 127 | February 19, 2013 9:34 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    whosoever wrote:
    My adopted son is 9. His mother died when he was 9 mos. old of a mosquito bite (Horn of Africa).
    So the DDT issue is near and dear to my heart.
    DDT is perfectly safe when used according to the label.
    The problem was people using too much of it.

    One dude even drank the stuff, without ill effect.

    I’ve been wanting to try that. I hate mosquitoes and would like it if they died after trying to bite me.

    doriangrey wrote:

    brookly red wrote:
    doriangrey wrote:
    Turning your dog into a Vegan is a good way to kill your dog in a rather spectacularly painful manner.
    I would never think of such a thing…

    Neither human beings nor dogs evolved to be Vegan’s. It’s that simple, for a human being their are 8 amino acids that if you do not get, you get a disease related to Scurvy that kills you in an excruciatingly painful manner. It takes about 8 years, but once you have reached a certain point, there is nothing that can be done to save you. ALL vegetarians and Vegans have to take special supplements to avoid contracting this disease, 99% of them pretend that their supplements come from bean sprouts. They do not. 99% of the time those supplements actually come from Chicken embryo’s.

    We have eyes on the fronts of our heads for a reason.

    doriangrey wrote:

    brookly red wrote:
    well seriously a lot of kibble is actually completely meat free many working dogs are in fact vegan albeit not by choice.
    Turning your dog into a Vegan is a good way to kill your dog in a rather spectacularly painful manner.

    Same with cats, except they go blind first and die a lot faster than dogs.

    brookly red wrote:

    citizen_q wrote:
    buzzsawmonkey wrote:
    lobo91 wrote:
    And their mission is to make the rest of us just as miserable.
    I can’t remember who it was who said, “Veganism is a dietary regimen that requires you to start each meal by informing your fellow-diners of your moral superiority.”
    That comment reminds of my cousins daughter, who is a strict vegan. Won’t eat anything that comes from an animal. She’s been hospitalized several times with symptoms described to me by my cousin that sounded to my layman’s ears like the results of long term malnutrition.

    you could have a vegan with and eating disorder… that can be dangerous.

    Vegans should be denied health insurance -- at any price. Same with death benefits. They are committing suicide and it is just plain wrong for the rest of us to pay for it with OUR premiums.


  128. 128 | February 19, 2013 9:36 pm

    citizen_q wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    You’re not talking about “action figures” or G.I. Joes are you?

    Those aren’t dolls; they’re toy soldiers.

    Goes the old joke, from the era of guys ‘n’ dolls:

    Little boys like to play with soldiers and little girls like to play with dolls.

    Older boys like to play with dolls, and older girls like to play with soldiers!


  129. 129 | February 19, 2013 9:45 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    whosoever wrote:

    My adopted son is 9. His mother died when he was 9 mos. old of a mosquito bite (Horn of Africa).
    So the DDT issue is near and dear to my heart.

    DDT is perfectly safe when used according to the label.

    The problem was people using too much of it.

    Not true. DDT is just like antibiotics, if you take too low a dose, or quit too soon, the bugs get to build resistance.
    I found a bottle when cleaning out my grandmothers basement. Having just read Rachel Cory’s err Carsons trype, I was in shock when my uncle took a swig straight from the bottle.
    It killed him, sad to say, took almost thirty five years before he dropped dead from it at the young age of 96. Poor kid.


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