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Newt Gingrich: We were kidding ourselves

by Speranza ( 272 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Elections 2012, Mitt Romney, Polls, Republican Party at March 6th, 2013 - 3:00 pm

As Gingrich points out – the Karl Rove meltdown on Fox News that night was emblematic as to how delusional the GOP and its loathsome “consulting class” are. Gingrich also laments that Romney was forced to run as something he clearly was not – a hard core social conservative.

Meanwhile chew on this comment “By the way, Reagan’s approval when he left office, among African Americans, was something like 42 percent. I would argue that there was a brief moment between Reagan and Jack Kemp when we were almost breaking through – and then we relapsed into being normal Republicans.”

by Steve Kornacki

There was a popular theory for much of the 2012 Republican presidential campaign that Newt Gingrich wasn’t actually running for the GOP nomination – that he was instead leveraging the stature and visibility that comes with being a candidate to market his personal brand. Whether by brilliant design or complete accident, though, the former House Speaker managed to catch fire – twice – delivering a memorable blow to Mitt Romney in the South Carolina primary before falling apart in Florida and fading from contention.

That rise-fall-rise-fall cycle neatly reflects the role Gingrich plays in national politics. He has an enduring knack for attracting attention and making himself relevant to the political conversation of the moment, even if most opinion-shapers in his party ultimately aren’t comfortable with him being their public face. So it’s no surprise that even as he nears 70, Gingrich is a vocal participant in the debate over the Republican Party’s direction, one who’s made news recently by taking shots at Stuart Stevens, the architect of Mitt Romney’s ’12 campaign, and Karl Rove.

He entered the fray shortly after the election with a memo to GOP Chairman Reince Priebus, describing himself as blindsided by the November result and “shaken” that he and so many other Republicans had misread the state of play so badly. He outlined 25 principles for a “deep, bold, thorough and lengthy” reform process within the party. Among the points of emphasis: the need to compete for non-white voters and to stop writing off urban areas. More recently, he pointed the finger at Romney and his strategists for worsening the party’s plight with Latinos by running far to the right on immigration during last year’s primary (a tactic that helped Romney derail Gingrich, who had struck a more inclusive tone on the issue).

Salon spoke with Gingrich about where the Republican Party is and where it’s going. The transcript of the conversation, slightly edited and condensed for clarity, is below.

The pre-election polls were pretty clear in showing Obama had a decent advantage. Why do you think you and so many Republicans were so confident? What did you get wrong about the campaign?

First, there was a belief in economic determinism, that you couldn’t have that level of unemployment and have a president get re-elected. So people just sort of had a bias that as long as the economy stayed bad, he would lose. And of course they proved that in many ways identity politics beat economic politics, which I think is a considerable achievement.

Second, I think we underestimated the degree to which  they were winning the argument. There’s an old Margaret Thatcher phrase I use over and over: “First you win the argument, then you win the vote.” If you look at the attitudes of the country, they ended up blaming George W. Bush, not Obama. They ended up thinking that ObamaCare actually was a net plus by the election. None of that seemed at all obvious to us.

And third, I think conservatives in general got in the habit of talking to themselves. I think that they in a sense got isolated into their own little world.  [.......]

You talked about the information bubble that existed through Fox News, talk radio, that sort of thing. Has that changed at all since the election?

I think that there are a lot of Republicans who are a lot more skeptical today than they were on the morning of the election. In some ways, the final symbol was Rove arguing over Ohio on Fox News after the Fox decision desk had called the state. I’m not picking on Karl, but I’m saying Karl in that sense personified a mindset that I was part of and that an amazing number of people were part of.

To give him some credit, Frank Luntz did a conference call that Callista and I listened to about 5:30 that day, and he went through exit polls and we just stared at each other because it was clear that the exit polls were so different from our expectation — that it was going to be a very long night.

One of the stories of 2012 is that the electorate is less white than ever, and it’s trending in an even less white direction. I don’t think there’s been an election after ’64 when Republicans broke 20 percent with the black vote, the Hispanic vote now, two straight elections…

By the way, Reagan’s approval when he left office, among African Americans, was something like 42 percent. I would argue that there was a brief moment between Reagan and Jack Kemp when we were almost breaking through – and then we relapsed into being normal Republicans.

When you look at the Republican Party’s relationship with African Americans and Hispanics, what is the message you want to deliver to those voters?

I’m for a big rethinking. I don’t think a modestly reformed Republican Party has any real chance of competing in the absence of a dramatic disaster. If there was a big disaster, people would be driven away from the Democrats, but in the absence of a really big disaster, if you want to compete in a difficult but not impossible world, we’re going to have to have very large fundamental rethinking.

The first thing you have to do with African Americans, Latinos, and Asian-Americans and Native Americans is go there. They don’t need to come to you; you need to go to them. And when you go there, listen. Phase one is not going there to tell about you. Why is it we can have entire cities that are disasters, that we can have 500 people getting killed in Chicago, we can have Detroit collapsing, we can have the highest black unemployment teenage in modern history, and no Republican politician can figure out that going there to say, “Gee, shouldn’t we do something to make this better”? And then talk about it jointly, so it becomes a joint product — that it’s not “Let me re-explain conservatism.” I don’t mean to walk away from conservatism, but we need to understand conservatism in the context of people who are talking with us.

Does there need to be a rethinking of conservatism then, as it relates to voters the party’s kind of written off in recent elections?

Sure, sure. And Kemp is significant part of that. If you go back and look, again, one of the reasons that the Reagan-Kemp period was so exciting was that you had a NFL quarterback and Hollywood movie star, and they were breaking out of the Republican norm. People have to know that you care before they care that you know, and I think that really captures a large part of this. One of my messages to Republicans is very simple: One-third of your schedule should be listening to people in minority communities. And today, if you’re not putting one-third of your schedule – and of course, no consultant will suggest this, because you’re not going to get a huge vote in the first trial run – but what you’re going to do, is start to change the whole pattern of dialogue and you learn a whole new language, you’re going to learn a whole new reality. [.......]

When I hear that, my skeptical response in terms of the politics of it from the Republican standpoint would be that the Democratic vote, in 2012 is more tightly condensed geographically than the Democratic vote really has ever been. Obama won like 690 counties – less than Dukakis even did. So you’ve got a situation now where the Republicans at the House level can sustain a majority while writing off these urban Democratic districts.

Look, they just can’t become a governing majority. If they want to be like the old Democratic Party which was doing just fine in Congress, but had no message for the country and no understanding of presidential campaigns, that’s certainly a track they can take. I think it’s bad for America and I think it’s bad for the Republican Party. This requires looking at guys who are in totally safe seats, who could coast the rest of their lives, “You owe it to the country and you owe it to the party to go and do some things you don’t have to do for reelection, but you do have to do for America.” We’ll see what happens. [........]

So how does that advice square with – and I think you kind of experienced this when you ran last year – the threat to the average Republican congressman of a primary challenge if he or she strays at all from conservative orthodoxy, like you did on immigration?

Accept it and go win the challenge. I think the position I took on immigration, for example, was the right position and actually it didn’t hurt me at all. I think some of these people run in a frightened way that they don’t need to, so all you have to do is stand up and explain yourself.  [........]

But when you see some of these primary results – like a Christine O’Donnell winning in Delaware, a Ken Buck in Colorado, a Joe Miller in Alaska – don’t you think that sends a frightening message to incumbents? The risk here…

That should send a message to incumbents that you clearly weren’t getting the message that people were extraordinarily angry. Part of the job of an incumbent is to listen to and represent a community. That doesn’t mean you need to be dictated to. That’s literally what actually happened to Bob Bennett (the former Utah senator defeated for re-nomination in 2010) and Orrin Hatch (who was re-elected in Utah in 2012). Orrin understood it early, went home early, listened to people, introduced them to legislation that made them feel pretty good, and he did fine.

But Hatch ran far to the right, and basically ran on the same platform that Romney was sort of forced to run on in the fall, and it worked in Utah, but it didn’t work in swing states…

That’s what I was going to say, that works in Utah.

Right. But you were describing a problem of getting out of safe red states and safe red districts.

I don’t think you’re automatically trapped in this. If you are saying, “Is it harder to build a successful national movement from where we are right now than it would be to coast?” the answer is yes. I’ve done this twice before. It was harder in the late ‘70s with Reagan, and I was a very junior member of the House in ’79 and ‘80. And I had lost twice. I lost in the Watergate year (1974) and I lost in the Jimmy Carter ear (1976) to the Democratic Party ticket. We had to rebuild after the first Bush. And then the ’94 campaign was the culmination of 16 years of work.

Yes, creating a modern, dynamic Republican Party capable of listening to 100 percent of the country is going to be a ton of work.  [........]

Do you believe long-term that the demographics are the biggest threat to the Republican Party?

No, I think the lack of ideas is the biggest threat. Look at what’s gone on with the sequester, OK? The fact that they haven’t held hearing after hearing for better ideas, that they haven’t told everybody in risk of being furloughed, “Show us the ways to save money,” that were just sort of – cut, to me, is not exactly a battle cry around which you build a majority. Saving, to some extent, is, but breaking out with better ideas, a better future, better solutions – that to me is where we’re going to have to go. And if you do it right, you can then appeal to virtually everybody in the country.

Does John Boehner have the power, though, given all the skepticism towards him from conservative members and the conservative movement, to lead that kind of effort?

He has the position to encourage it. [........] One of my core arguments is going to be, we need to be the party of a better future, not the anti-Obama party. And we better think through what that’s going to require and how do we achieve that.

When you look at the dynamic that’s now emerging in the House – we saw it in the Violence Against Women act last week, we saw it with Sandy aid and we saw it with fiscal cliff, with Boehner bringing to the floor bills that an overwhelming majority of the conference oppose, then pass on the strength of Democratic votes. What do you make of that? What does that say about what’s going on in the Republican Party right now?

I think it’s tactically where we are at the moment. I don’t draw a great deal out of it for the long-term. We occasionally did that when I was speaker. So it’s not necessarily today or tomorrow – it’s over a period of time. Somebody just pointed out that Reagan and I are two people who have their tapes at the national archives. In my case, it’s the GOPAC training tapes that we did (in the 1980s). It’s easy to forget, but in that long stretch, we were creating the party that won in ’94.  [........]

But the long term challenge to the Republican Party is to decide if it is prepared to fundamentally rethink what it’s doing? Is it prepared to make that real on a personal and practical level? Does it involve the whole country, and does it involve focusing on a better future rather than just fighting Obama? The party that makes the right choice in those cases, I think, is going have a very good future.

Read the rest - “In the real world we were kidding ourselves”

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272 Responses to “Newt Gingrich: We were kidding ourselves”
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  1. Speranza
    1 | March 6, 2013 3:12 pm

    I was surprised to see how high Reagan’s approval ratings amongst blacks was when he left office.


  2. heysoos
    2 | March 6, 2013 3:13 pm

    “dramatic disaster”…
    odds are improving everyday, don’t bet better than even money against it


  3. Speranza
    3 | March 6, 2013 3:14 pm

    The Clinton Machine is waiting for us in 2016 and we better get our stuff together.


  4. Speranza
    4 | March 6, 2013 3:14 pm

    One of my core arguments is going to be, we need to be the party of a better future, not the anti-Obama party. And we better think through what that’s going to require and how do we achieve that.

    Amen to that!


  5. Speranza
    5 | March 6, 2013 3:16 pm

    In some ways, the final symbol was Rove arguing over Ohio on Fox News after the Fox decision desk had called the state.

    That pig and his chalk boards should never have been brought back to Fox.


  6. Speranza
    6 | March 6, 2013 3:27 pm

    The folks who predicted a Romney landslide with references to 1980 were living in a dream world.


  7. Lily
    7 | March 6, 2013 3:32 pm

    The problem was obama…period. First this, first that, and first everything. Something new….as long as Republicans keep eating their own they will never, ever get anywhere anymore.


  8. 8 | March 6, 2013 3:33 pm

    That whole argument sounds vaguely familiar…


  9. Lily
    9 | March 6, 2013 3:36 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    The folks who predicted a Romney landslide with references to 1980 were living in a dream world.

    It was a 50/50 chance. And just because *some* people thought that the people of the United States would actually, finally see how terrible a president obama was doesn’t mean they were living in a dream…they were all about hope. I never referenced Romney with 1980. People were blind is all I could say….Romney does love this country…obama was all about the negative.


  10. Lily
    10 | March 6, 2013 3:40 pm

    I’ve killed the thread. Again.


  11. Lily
    11 | March 6, 2013 3:44 pm

    Okay wishing some posters were here…..
    /gee I seem to repel them. :(


  12. 12 | March 6, 2013 3:46 pm

    Lily wrote:

    I’ve killed the thread. Again.

    Nah. Just gathering ingredients for dinner. Plainer than the last new thing I tried two nights back (a Morrocan chicken dish -- tangy!) or even the bourbon and OJ spiced pork tenderloin with sweet taters and apples the wife did last night.


  13. 13 | March 6, 2013 3:46 pm

    @ Lily:

    Yeah, we just underestimated the stupidity of the electorate.


  14. brookly red
    14 | March 6, 2013 3:47 pm

    @ Lily:

    hmmm what’s this?? looks like a freshly killed thread… well I wasn’t here so I got an alibi


  15. waldensianspirit
    15 | March 6, 2013 3:48 pm

    Where’s my Romney PPPPPPHONNNNNE????


  16. Lily
    16 | March 6, 2013 3:49 pm

    We gotta get a new president…really.

    Sickening: Citgo’s Houston HQ Flies American Flag At Half-Mast To Mourn Death Of Anti-American Leader Hugo Chavez

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/03/06/sickening-citgos-houston-hq-flies-american-flag-at-half-mast-to-mourn-death-of-anti-american-leader-hugo-chavez


  17. brookly red
    17 | March 6, 2013 3:50 pm

    still listing to Paul… he is doing well.


  18. Lily
    18 | March 6, 2013 3:51 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    I’ve killed the thread. Again.
    Nah. Just gathering ingredients for dinner. Plainer than the last new thing I tried two nights back (a Morrocan chicken dish — tangy!) or even the bourbon and OJ spiced pork tenderloin with sweet taters and apples the wife did last night.

    Sounds like you are having fun! :)


  19. 19 | March 6, 2013 3:52 pm

    @ brookly red:

    You’ll notice that Obama decrees that he can kill Americans without trial, and there are crickets from the Left. All of that bullshit about civil rights is just that: bullshit. They don’t believe in any of it. It is just talking points for them to bitch about Republicans.


  20. Lily
    20 | March 6, 2013 3:53 pm

    mskelly wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Yeah, we just underestimated the stupidity of the electorate.

    No kidding …the stupid was very strong..I never thought it would be so strong. Boy am I seeing it now though..they aren’t hiding it anymore in fact they have doubled down on it with a smile.
    /disgusting I say.


  21. brookly red
    21 | March 6, 2013 3:55 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    You’ll notice that Obama decrees that he can kill Americans without trial, and there are crickets from the Left. All of that bullshit about civil rights is just that: bullshit. They don’t believe in any of it. It is just talking points for them to bitch about Republicans.

    /they thought he meant in the 3rd trimester…


  22. Lily
    22 | March 6, 2013 3:56 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    @ Lily:
    hmmm what’s this?? looks like a freshly killed thread… well I wasn’t here so I got an alibi

    Who says you weren’t the one? Hmmmmmmm all dressed up like The Lily and killing the thread…while I was in the kitchen getting my cold, cold Dr. Pepper and talking to the the little mutt if he doesn’t behave *gator bait*. I think he got the message all while you were setting me up.
    /that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. ;)


  23. BatGuano
    23 | March 6, 2013 3:57 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    The left protested when Bush drones killed terrorists on foreign soil, they protested when Bush drones killed American citizens on foreign soil;
    but they have no problem with Obama drones killing American citizens on American soil!


  24. Lily
    24 | March 6, 2013 3:57 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Where’s my Romney PPPPPPHONNNNNE????

    HEY!!!! They are giving them to dead people down here. ;)
    /really!


  25. brookly red
    25 | March 6, 2013 3:59 pm

    Lily wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    @ Lily:
    hmmm what’s this?? looks like a freshly killed thread… well I wasn’t here so I got an alibi

    Who says you weren’t the one? Hmmmmmmm all dressed up like The Lily and killing the thread…while I was in the kitchen getting my cold, cold Dr. Pepper and talking to the the little mutt if he doesn’t behave *gator bait*. I think he got the message all while you were setting me up.
    /that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

    I never use * as… that’s your handwriting.


  26. lobo91
    26 | March 6, 2013 4:00 pm

    Ted Cruz Takes Over For Rand Paul’s Filibuster Of Brennan…

    Actually, Ron Wyden (D-OR) has now joined in.


  27. buzzsawmonkey
    27 | March 6, 2013 4:01 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    You’ll notice that Obama decrees that he can kill Americans without trial, and there are crickets from the Left. All of that bullshit about civil rights is just that: bullshit. They don’t believe in any of it. It is just talking points for them to bitch about Republicans.

    I said it yesterday, I’ll say it again: for Eric Holder, “due process” means he has an appointment with his barber.


  28. brookly red
    28 | March 6, 2013 4:01 pm

    BatGuano wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    The left protested when Bush drones killed terrorists on foreign soil, they protested when Bush drones killed American citizens on foreign soil;
    but they have no problem with Obama drones killing American citizens on American soil!

    woe to be judged as a hypocrit


  29. Speranza
    29 | March 6, 2013 4:01 pm

    Lily wrote:

    It was a 50/50 chance. And just because *some* people thought that the people of the United States would actually, finally see how terrible a president obama was doesn’t mean they were living in a dream…they were all about hope. I never referenced Romney with 1980. People were blind is all I could say….Romney does love this country…obama was all about the negative.

    It was a different country back then.


  30. lobo91
    30 | March 6, 2013 4:03 pm

    From earlier today:

    GOP Sen. Ted Cruz Gets Holder To Admit That Killing Americans With Drones On U.S. Soil Is Unconstitutional…

    But they’ll do it anyway.


  31. buzzsawmonkey
    31 | March 6, 2013 4:04 pm

    “These aren’t the drones you’re looking for.”

    —Obama-Wan Benghazi


  32. brookly red
    32 | March 6, 2013 4:05 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Ted Cruz Takes Over For Rand Paul’s Filibuster Of Brennan…

    Actually, Ron Wyden (D-OR) has now joined in.

    Cruz was on before…
    I think that proving they will actually filibuster is a good tactic. Maybe congress will find it’s backbone


  33. Lily
    33 | March 6, 2013 4:07 pm

    BatGuano wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    The left protested when Bush drones killed terrorists on foreign soil, they protested when Bush drones killed American citizens on foreign soil;
    but they have no problem with Obama drones killing American citizens on American soil!

    Of course not! obama can do NO WRONG!! Oh and where oh where are the anti-war protesters??????? I really want to know. Can’t depend on them can you?


  34. lobo91
    34 | March 6, 2013 4:08 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Not every day that you see a bipartisan fillibuster.


  35. lobo91
    35 | March 6, 2013 4:09 pm

    @ Lily:

    Of course not! obama can do NO WRONG!! Oh and where oh where are the anti-war protesters??????? I really want to know. Can’t depend on them can you?

    I think they’re still protesting outside Cheney’s house.


  36. 36 | March 6, 2013 4:09 pm

    @ Lily:

    We;re just trying to get some use out of this veritable mountain of recipes around here. I’ve had that Morrocan chicken recipe in my ring binder for at least 4 years without ever trying it. It was pretty damned good.


  37. brookly red
    37 | March 6, 2013 4:09 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    Not every day that you see a bipartisan fillibuster.

    I am telling you O’s shit is unraveling


  38. heysoos
    38 | March 6, 2013 4:11 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    Not every day that you see a bipartisan fillibuster.

    Wyden, a senator since 1996…interesting


  39. brookly red
    39 | March 6, 2013 4:11 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Lily:

    We;re just trying to get some use out of this veritable mountain of recipes around here. I’ve had that Morrocan chicken recipe in my ring binder for at least 4 years without ever trying it. It was pretty damned good.

    Morrocan is a good break from the same old same old


  40. brookly red
    40 | March 6, 2013 4:13 pm

    Paul is showing he can shoot from the hip with out a teleprompter… I think he is going to run.


  41. Lily
    41 | March 6, 2013 4:14 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    brookly red wrote:
    @ Lily:
    hmmm what’s this?? looks like a freshly killed thread… well I wasn’t here so I got an alibi
    Who says you weren’t the one? Hmmmmmmm all dressed up like The Lily and killing the thread…while I was in the kitchen getting my cold, cold Dr. Pepper and talking to the the little mutt if he doesn’t behave *gator bait*. I think he got the message all while you were setting me up.
    /that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
    I never use * as “… that’s your handwriting.

    *SHAKES HEAD* I don’t see *as* now I see gator bait….you never use that…but I might be mistaken…feeling poorly today. So I’ll go with this….have a headache and backache…..it’s so WRONG! Just for me and oh and you can listen too. ;) One of my theme songs. 8-)


  42. MikeA
    42 | March 6, 2013 4:15 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Paul is showing he can shoot from the hip with out a teleprompter… I think he is going to run.

    I like Rand Paul but the media will destroy him just for having an insane father.


  43. 43 | March 6, 2013 4:16 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Yup. I was surprised at how spicey it was, although I shouldn’t have been, given the amount of stuff in it.


  44. Lily
    44 | March 6, 2013 4:17 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    brookly red wrote:
    @ Lily:
    hmmm what’s this?? looks like a freshly killed thread… well I wasn’t here so I got an alibi
    Who says you weren’t the one? Hmmmmmmm all dressed up like The Lily and killing the thread…while I was in the kitchen getting my cold, cold Dr. Pepper and talking to the the little mutt if he doesn’t behave *gator bait*. I think he got the message all while you were setting me up.
    /that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
    I never use * as “… that’s your handwriting.

    Darn it….my little star…yeah that’s all me. Damn I misread that! Duh! It looks more pretty than “


  45. Bumr50
    45 | March 6, 2013 4:17 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    I was surprised to see how high Reagan’s approval ratings amongst blacks was when he left office.

    The GOP is SO FAR from getting the “black vote,” that I think something beyond outreach would be necessary if the effort is to simply try and get African-American votes.

    BILL COSBY SUGGESTS GOP WANTS TO BRING BACK SLAVERY

    African-Americans in particular are taught through public school, handouts, and propaganda that to be “Black” is to vote Democrat.

    Those of conservative minds are always forced, in the end, to choose between their principles and their race. The repercussions for violating this within the “community” are severe.

    I don’t know how you fix that, but they need to know WHY ON EARTH they’d ever vote not vote Democrat.


  46. lobo91
    46 | March 6, 2013 4:17 pm

    Obama Sending U.S. Delegation To Hugo Chavez’s Funeral…

    The United States is expected to send a delegation to Hugo Chavez’s funeral later this week in a move that could send a conciliatory message to Venezuela now that its stridently anti-American leader has died.

    Senior US officials also said on Wednesday that Washington had no immediate plans to respond in kind to Venezuela’s expulsion of two US military attaches, which was announced on Tuesday by Vice President Nicolas Maduro just hours before he told the world of Chavez’s death.

    So…they kick out two of our people, and we respond by sucking up to them?


  47. heysoos
    47 | March 6, 2013 4:18 pm

    MikeA wrote:

    brookly red wrote:
    Paul is showing he can shoot from the hip with out a teleprompter… I think he is going to run.
    I like Rand Paul but the media will destroy him just for having an insane father.

    for every degree of trouble BO faces, same for the media…and BO is starting to lose traction, not a lot but some…and any little setback makes him that much vulnerable…anything can happen


  48. heysoos
    48 | March 6, 2013 4:20 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Obama Sending U.S. Delegation To Hugo Chavez’s Funeral…
    The United States is expected to send a delegation to Hugo Chavez’s funeral later this week in a move that could send a conciliatory message to Venezuela now that its stridently anti-American leader has died.
    Senior US officials also said on Wednesday that Washington had no immediate plans to respond in kind to Venezuela’s expulsion of two US military attaches, which was announced on Tuesday by Vice President Nicolas Maduro just hours before he told the world of Chavez’s death.
    So…they kick out two of our people, and we respond by sucking up to them?

    maybe our people got caught in the cookie jar..I never read why they were expelled


  49. brookly red
    49 | March 6, 2013 4:20 pm

    MikeA wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    Paul is showing he can shoot from the hip with out a teleprompter… I think he is going to run.

    I like Rand Paul but the media will destroy him just for having an insane father.

    the media will try to destroy anybody, that is no reason not to run


  50. Lily
    50 | March 6, 2013 4:20 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    It was a 50/50 chance. And just because *some* people thought that the people of the United States would actually, finally see how terrible a president obama was doesn’t mean they were living in a dream…they were all about hope. I never referenced Romney with 1980. People were blind is all I could say….Romney does love this country…obama was all about the negative.
    It was a different country back then.

    Yes sir it was! It’s sad that we can say *back in the day* (stars instead of ” for brookly and Speranza I hope you enjoyed them too.)
    /sometimes you just have to lighten up things, especially if you have a headache.


  51. brookly red
    51 | March 6, 2013 4:21 pm

    Lily wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    brookly red wrote:
    @ Lily:
    hmmm what’s this?? looks like a freshly killed thread… well I wasn’t here so I got an alibi
    Who says you weren’t the one? Hmmmmmmm all dressed up like The Lily and killing the thread…while I was in the kitchen getting my cold, cold Dr. Pepper and talking to the the little mutt if he doesn’t behave *gator bait*. I think he got the message all while you were setting me up.
    /that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
    I never use * as “… that’s your handwriting.

    Darn it….my little star…yeah that’s all me. Damn I misread that! Duh! It looks more pretty than “

    forensics… get ya every time


  52. Lily
    52 | March 6, 2013 4:22 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    From earlier today:
    GOP Sen. Ted Cruz Gets Holder To Admit That Killing Americans With Drones On U.S. Soil Is Unconstitutional…
    But they’ll do it anyway.

    Good heavens the crazy is strong lately.


  53. brookly red
    53 | March 6, 2013 4:24 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Obama Sending U.S. Delegation To Hugo Chavez’s Funeral…

    The United States is expected to send a delegation to Hugo Chavez’s funeral later this week in a move that could send a conciliatory message to Venezuela now that its stridently anti-American leader has died.

    Senior US officials also said on Wednesday that Washington had no immediate plans to respond in kind to Venezuela’s expulsion of two US military attaches, which was announced on Tuesday by Vice President Nicolas Maduro just hours before he told the world of Chavez’s death.

    So…they kick out two of our people, and we respond by sucking up to them?

    hearts and minds…


  54. Lily
    54 | March 6, 2013 4:24 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Of course not! obama can do NO WRONG!! Oh and where oh where are the anti-war protesters??????? I really want to know. Can’t depend on them can you?
    I think they’re still protesting outside Cheney’s house.

    He’s evil you know. Of course they are there or at home watching TV. One or the other.


  55. Lily
    55 | March 6, 2013 4:25 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Lily:
    We;re just trying to get some use out of this veritable mountain of recipes around here. I’ve had that Morrocan chicken recipe in my ring binder for at least 4 years without ever trying it. It was pretty damned good.

    LOL! Finally got around to trying the recipe! 4 years??????????????
    :)


  56. Lily
    56 | March 6, 2013 4:26 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    Not every day that you see a bipartisan fillibuster.
    I am telling you O’s shit is unraveling

    I agree and it is going to be a site to see! *


  57. lobo91
    57 | March 6, 2013 4:26 pm

    @ Lily:

    He’s evil you know. Of course they are there or at home watching TV. One or the other.

    They’re idiots. Cheney owns several homes in different states. I remember one time there were a bunch of protesters outside his house in NM. They were all mad because there was no reaction from inside.

    There was nobody there.


  58. heysoos
    58 | March 6, 2013 4:27 pm

    expelled military guys “involved in conspiracy”
    pretty thin
    http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/8031


  59. lobo91
    59 | March 6, 2013 4:27 pm

    @ Lily:

    Be careful what you wish for. Given Obama’s history, he has a zero percent chance of learning from his mistakes.

    He’ll double down on the stupid.


  60. brookly red
    60 | March 6, 2013 4:28 pm

    Lily wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    Not every day that you see a bipartisan fillibuster.
    I am telling you O’s shit is unraveling

    I agree and it is going to be a site to see! *

    Benghazi ain’t going away…


  61. lobo91
    61 | March 6, 2013 4:28 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    expelled military guys “involved in conspiracy”
    pretty thin
    http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/8031

    It’s Venezuela. What do you expect?


  62. lobo91
    62 | March 6, 2013 4:31 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Benghazi ain’t going away…

    Neither is Obama.

    You think Nixon went crazy when things starting crumbling around him?

    Just wait.


  63. heysoos
    63 | March 6, 2013 4:31 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    expelled military guys “involved in conspiracy”
    pretty thin
    http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/8031
    It’s Venezuela. What do you expect?

    something with more substance


  64. Lily
    64 | March 6, 2013 4:32 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Up thread I said we need a new president…ASAP …Badly. Too bad the election is over. obama is like kryptonite to our country….


  65. eaglesoars
    65 | March 6, 2013 4:33 pm

    Jesus Christ.

    We’ve got a president who thinks he can murder Americans at will and is currently doing the American people willful harm -- and Newt says it’s not about Obama and the Republicans need ideas.

    God help us


  66. brookly red
    66 | March 6, 2013 4:33 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    Benghazi ain’t going away…

    Neither is Obama.

    You think Nixon went crazy when things starting crumbling around him?

    Just wait.

    threatening journalists, enemies list, stonewalling investigations… it’s already hear.


  67. lobo91
    67 | March 6, 2013 4:34 pm

    @ heysoos:

    Calling Venezuela’s govenment a clown show is an insult to clowns.

    Their newly-appointed VP/bus driver claimed that the US caused Chavez’ cancer. Then they expelled two US military attaches.

    Connect the dots.


  68. Lily
    68 | March 6, 2013 4:35 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Darn it you got your mojo on today…I have an excuse…a headache..so I’m off the hook! ************* ;)


  69. lobo91
    69 | March 6, 2013 4:36 pm

    @ brookly red:

    threatening journalists, enemies list, stonewalling investigations… it’s already hear.

    This is nothing.

    Wait until he starts having journalists imprisoned and assassinating his enemies.


  70. heysoos
    70 | March 6, 2013 4:36 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Calling Venezuela’s govenment a clown show is an insult to clowns.
    Their newly-appointed VP/bus driver claimed that the US caused Chavez’ cancer. Then they expelled two US military attaches.
    Connect the dots.

    hadn’t heard that one…he sounds just as nutty as Chavez


  71. brookly red
    71 | March 6, 2013 4:37 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:

    Calling Venezuela’s govenment a clown show is an insult to clowns.

    Their newly-appointed VP/bus driver claimed that the US caused Chavez’ cancer. Then they expelled two US military attaches.

    Connect the dots.

    when Ahmadinejad’s hair falls out I will take them seriously…


  72. lobo91
    72 | March 6, 2013 4:38 pm

    @ heysoos:

    He was appointed by Chavez, after all.


  73. lobo91
    73 | March 6, 2013 4:40 pm

    @ brookly red:

    when Ahmadinejad’s hair falls out I will take them seriously…

    I think you missed my point.

    There’s nothing to take seriously. The Venezuelans are trying to make it look like they’re standing up to the evil Americans.

    It’s all bullshit.


  74. Lily
    74 | March 6, 2013 4:40 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    He’s evil you know. Of course they are there or at home watching TV. One or the other.
    They’re idiots. Cheney owns several homes in different states. I remember one time there were a bunch of protesters outside his house in NM. They were all mad because there was no reaction from inside.
    There was nobody there.

    I have stood fast to the fact that we in our country have a *idiot* problem…major one if I say so myself. I’ve seen them in real life and in real action…oh dear night in Georgia….all I can say is *really these people vote????* It’s sad I tell ya. Very sad how much of an idiot some people are.


  75. heysoos
    75 | March 6, 2013 4:40 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    He was appointed by Chavez, after all.

    there will be no token election?


  76. brookly red
    76 | March 6, 2013 4:41 pm

    Chambliss too? wow


  77. brookly red
    77 | March 6, 2013 4:42 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    when Ahmadinejad’s hair falls out I will take them seriously…

    I think you missed my point.

    There’s nothing to take seriously. The Venezuelans are trying to make it look like they’re standing up to the evil Americans.

    It’s all bullshit.

    of course it is but we have to play the game…


  78. Lily
    78 | March 6, 2013 4:42 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Be careful what you wish for. Given Obama’s history, he has a zero percent chance of learning from his mistakes.
    He’ll double down on the stupid.

    You have a point…I must say…he doesn’t learn from his mistakes..


  79. lobo91
    79 | March 6, 2013 4:42 pm

    Chavez was killed by the crappy Cuban healthcare system. If he’d been treated by doctors who had a clue, he’d be alive today.

    There was a doctor on TV yesterday who explained what happened. The Cubans misdiagnosed the type of cancer he had, and gave him the wrong type of chemotherapy. Rather than killing it, it made the cancer worse.


  80. Lily
    80 | March 6, 2013 4:43 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    brookly red wrote:
    lobo91 wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    Not every day that you see a bipartisan fillibuster.
    I am telling you O’s shit is unraveling
    I agree and it is going to be a site to see! *
    Benghazi ain’t going away…

    Oh I hope not…and I hope he pays dearly for Benghazi…dearly.


  81. brookly red
    81 | March 6, 2013 4:44 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Chavez was killed by the crappy Cuban healthcare system. If he’d been treated by doctors who had a clue, he’d be alive today.

    There was a doctor on TV yesterday who explained what happened. The Cubans misdiagnosed the type of cancer he had, and gave him the wrong type of chemotherapy. Rather than killing it, it made the cancer worse.

    note to dictators: If you a. have stolen 2 billion and b. get sick the c. go to Paris.


  82. lobo91
    82 | March 6, 2013 4:45 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    @ heysoos:
    He was appointed by Chavez, after all.
    there will be no token election?

    Chavez appointed the guy as VP a couple weeks back. He only stays in charge until the election. That’s why they’re still referring to him as VP, because it’s not like our system where he’d become president.

    They’ll have an election, and whoever the candidate is from Chavez’ party (which may or may not be the new VP, who’s apparently an idiot) will win.


  83. Lily
    83 | March 6, 2013 4:45 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Jesus Christ.
    We’ve got a president who thinks he can murder Americans at will and is currently doing the American people willful harm — and Newt says it’s not about Obama and the Republicans need ideas.
    God help us

    Yep we have tons of crazy going on in this country…and NOT VERY MANY PEOPLE ARE NOTICING! The crazy, the idiot, the evil is very strong at this point.


  84. lobo91
    84 | March 6, 2013 4:46 pm

    @ brookly red:

    note to dictators: If you a. have stolen 2 billion and b. get sick the c. go to Paris.

    Didn’t help Arafat.


  85. Lily
    85 | March 6, 2013 4:47 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    Calling Venezuela’s govenment a clown show is an insult to clowns.
    Their newly-appointed VP/bus driver claimed that the US caused Chavez’ cancer. Then they expelled two US military attaches.
    Connect the dots.

    It’s a evil circus?


  86. lobo91
    86 | March 6, 2013 4:47 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Don’t go to Cuba, anyway.


  87. BatGuano
    87 | March 6, 2013 4:48 pm

    Why are republican congress critters saying that the presidents nominees are entitled to an up or down vote? Tom Daschle didn’t believe so.


  88. brookly red
    88 | March 6, 2013 4:48 pm

    Paul reams Reid.


  89. 89 | March 6, 2013 4:48 pm

    @ Lily:

    LOL! Finally got around to trying the recipe! 4 years??????????????

    Oh, we’ve got books and binders and loose piles of recipes that haven’t been tried yet. We won’t live long enough to try them all. OTOH, we had a casserole last week that we’ve been making for probably 40 years.


  90. Lily
    90 | March 6, 2013 4:48 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    He was appointed by Chavez, after all.

    Was Chavez on heavy drugs at the time? Evil and more evil.


  91. brookly red
    91 | March 6, 2013 4:50 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    note to dictators: If you a. have stolen 2 billion and b. get sick the c. go to Paris.

    Didn’t help Arafat.

    might not have helped Chavez either but the food would have been better :)


  92. lobo91
    92 | March 6, 2013 4:50 pm

    @ Lily:

    I would assume so.


  93. lobo91
    93 | March 6, 2013 4:51 pm

    @ brookly red:

    Right now, Chavez is probably wishing for some ice water.


  94. Lily
    94 | March 6, 2013 4:52 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Chavez was killed by the crappy Cuban healthcare system. If he’d been treated by doctors who had a clue, he’d be alive today.
    There was a doctor on TV yesterday who explained what happened. The Cubans misdiagnosed the type of cancer he had, and gave him the wrong type of chemotherapy. Rather than killing it, it made the cancer worse.

    Michael Moore go *boom* on how great Cuba’s heealth-care system is.
    Dear night in heaven ….Cuba has a better health-care system than ours? If anyone believed that they are idiots.


  95. brookly red
    95 | March 6, 2013 4:52 pm

    Toomey joins the fray


  96. 96 | March 6, 2013 4:53 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Buzzi -- went over to Zip and checked out the thread like you suggested. Holy moley -- you KNOW you have come across as a complete moron when the lovely Kate the moderator has to come on and call you an idiot.

    Which he was… so completely and utterly.


  97. lobo91
    97 | March 6, 2013 4:54 pm

    @ Lily:

    Dear night in heaven ….Cuba has a better health-care system than ours? If anyone believed that they are idiots.

    Our pets get better healthcare than Cubans do.


  98. Lily
    98 | March 6, 2013 4:55 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Lily:
    LOL! Finally got around to trying the recipe! 4 years??????????????
    Oh, we’ve got books and binders and loose piles of recipes that haven’t been tried yet. We won’t live long enough to try them all. OTOH, we had a casserole last week that we’ve been making for probably 40 years.

    Hey what works and is good….stick with it! I say! ;)


  99. Lily
    99 | March 6, 2013 4:56 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    I would assume so.

    I’m sure.


  100. brookly red
    100 | March 6, 2013 4:56 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:

    Dear night in heaven ….Cuba has a better health-care system than ours? If anyone believed that they are idiots.

    Our pets get better healthcare than Cubans do.

    well that is true of at least half the people on the planet…


  101. Lily
    102 | March 6, 2013 5:01 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    Right now, Chavez is probably wishing for some ice water.

    I would not want to be him at all…because more peeps are singing *Oh Happy Day* than *praying for his soul*….bad mojo there.


  102. brookly red
    103 | March 6, 2013 5:02 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    Buzzi — went over to Zip and checked out the thread like you suggested. Holy moley — you KNOW you have come across as a complete moron when the lovely Kate the moderator has to come on and call you an idiot.

    Which he was… so completely and utterly.

    I love reading in that place… maybe when I grow up I can comment there :)


  103. brookly red
    104 | March 6, 2013 5:04 pm

    Damn Paul is on fire


  104. lobo91
    105 | March 6, 2013 5:05 pm

    @ Lily:

    Maybe Venezuela will have a chance to improve in a few years now.

    Chavez’ party will undoubtedly win the election to replace him, because they have no organized opposition.

    But whoever they elect isn’t going to be able to pull off the same sort of crap Chavez did. It was all a cult of personality.

    Someone else will win the election after this one.


  105. heysoos
    106 | March 6, 2013 5:06 pm

    filibuster record…

    In 1957, Strom Thurmond spoke for a dawn-chasing 24 hours and 18 minutes, in opposition to the Civil Rights Act of 1957.
    factoid


  106. Lily
    107 | March 6, 2013 5:12 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Toomey joins the fray

    Did you mention the The Fray….my fav…


  107. Lily
    108 | March 6, 2013 5:15 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Dear night in heaven ….Cuba has a better health-care system than ours? If anyone believed that they are idiots.
    Our pets get better healthcare than Cubans do.

    No kidding! But if you want to lose weight you know like to extremely ill thin…Cuba is your place!


  108. Lily
    109 | March 6, 2013 5:16 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Ahmadinejad Predicts Hugo Chavez Will Rise From The Dead: He Will “Return On Resurrection Day” With Imam Mahdi And Jesus…
    Anyone want to take any bets on that?

    I lay down 500,000/ nope! 8-)


  109. brookly red
    110 | March 6, 2013 5:17 pm

    Cornyn get on board… this has legs.


  110. Lily
    111 | March 6, 2013 5:17 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:
    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Buzzi — went over to Zip and checked out the thread like you suggested. Holy moley — you KNOW you have come across as a complete moron when the lovely Kate the moderator has to come on and call you an idiot.
    Which he was… so completely and utterly.
    I love reading in that place… maybe when I grow up I can comment there

    Dude that’s going to be a looooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnng time. Maybe in 2020…*MAYBE*.


  111. brookly red
    112 | March 6, 2013 5:18 pm

    Lily wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Lily:
    Dear night in heaven ….Cuba has a better health-care system than ours? If anyone believed that they are idiots.
    Our pets get better healthcare than Cubans do.

    No kidding! But if you want to lose weight you know like to extremely ill thin…Cuba is your place!

    For Michael Moore I would suggest the North Korean Diet


  112. heysoos
    113 | March 6, 2013 5:19 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Cornyn get on board… this has legs.

    seems like it…if they go for the record they are 1/3 way there and not even winded yet…in other words, the gab still makes good sense


  113. lobo91
    114 | March 6, 2013 5:19 pm

    @ brookly red:

    he could feed most of the country


  114. brookly red
    115 | March 6, 2013 5:19 pm

    Lily wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:
    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Buzzi — went over to Zip and checked out the thread like you suggested. Holy moley — you KNOW you have come across as a complete moron when the lovely Kate the moderator has to come on and call you an idiot.
    Which he was… so completely and utterly.
    I love reading in that place… maybe when I grow up I can comment there

    Dude that’s going to be a looooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnng time. Maybe in 2020…*MAYBE*.

    I always get what I want because I am patient


  115. Lily
    116 | March 6, 2013 5:19 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I have to agree with you….the people will finally have a chance.


  116. brookly red
    117 | March 6, 2013 5:21 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ brookly red:

    he could feed most of the country

    once…


  117. Lily
    118 | March 6, 2013 5:23 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    lobo91 wrote:
    @ Lily:
    Dear night in heaven ….Cuba has a better health-care system than ours? If anyone believed that they are idiots.
    Our pets get better healthcare than Cubans do.
    No kidding! But if you want to lose weight you know like to extremely ill thin…Cuba is your place!
    For Michael Moore I would suggest the North Korean Diet…

    Now there is an idea…..I like it! ;)


  118. taxfreekiller
    119 | March 6, 2013 5:25 pm

    A bunch of ms tfk’s phone bank people have been calling all of Cornyns offices all over Texas and the D.C. office for hours.

    Looks like it worked.


  119. lobo91
    120 | March 6, 2013 5:27 pm

    Holder On Saying He Doesn’t “Respect” Congressmen Who Voted To Censure Him: “I Stand By That”…

    Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, scolded Attorney General Eric Holder for saying he doesn’t “respect” any of the congressmen who voted to censure him for contempt of Congress, but Holder responded by repeating the comment.

    “It was an effort that had a predetermined result,” Holder said of the House of Representatives contempt vote during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing this morning. He laid some of the blame for the contempt vote on “the gun lobby,” after initially suggesting he lacked respect for the “process,” not the members of Congress.

    Then he said what he really thinks. “I’ll stand by that: the people who pushed that, I don’t respect,” Holder told Grassley.

    Another crapweasel who needs to be impeached.


  120. Lily
    121 | March 6, 2013 5:27 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    brookly red wrote:
    Carolina Girl wrote:
    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    Buzzi — went over to Zip and checked out the thread like you suggested. Holy moley — you KNOW you have come across as a complete moron when the lovely Kate the moderator has to come on and call you an idiot.
    Which he was… so completely and utterly.
    I love reading in that place… maybe when I grow up I can comment there
    Dude that’s going to be a looooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnng time. Maybe in 2020…*MAYBE*.
    I always get what I want because I am patient

    Dude….get a triple by-pass surgery at a early age and Lily go *boom* you’ll get it faster…but a little warning…you gotta be bada$$ to go through it. Just saying.


  121. taxfreekiller
    122 | March 6, 2013 5:29 pm

    ms tfk gave me and others a good line to use on Cornyn.

    “Remember what happened to David Dewhurst” “Get off your ass and aid your fellow Texan he is about to be over run like the Alamo was.”


  122. eaglesoars
    123 | March 6, 2013 5:29 pm

    taxfreekiller wrote:

    A bunch of ms tfk’s phone bank people have been calling all of Cornyns offices all over Texas and the D.C. office for hours.

    Looks like it worked.

    this is about Brennan?

    I watched Paul for a few hours today.

    good guy

    and Ted Cruz


  123. heysoos
    124 | March 6, 2013 5:30 pm

    holder says about his contempt vote…
    “It was an effort that had a predetermined result,”

    as if there is something wrong with that?….does droning citizens have a predetermined effect?


  124. buzzsawmonkey
    125 | March 6, 2013 5:31 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Nifty, huh?


  125. brookly red
    126 | March 6, 2013 5:33 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Holder On Saying He Doesn’t “Respect” Congressmen Who Voted To Censure Him: “I Stand By That”…

    Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, scolded Attorney General Eric Holder for saying he doesn’t “respect” any of the congressmen who voted to censure him for contempt of Congress, but Holder responded by repeating the comment.

    “It was an effort that had a predetermined result,” Holder said of the House of Representatives contempt vote during a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing this morning. He laid some of the blame for the contempt vote on “the gun lobby,” after initially suggesting he lacked respect for the “process,” not the members of Congress.

    Then he said what he really thinks. “I’ll stand by that: the people who pushed that, I don’t respect,” Holder told Grassley.

    Another crapweasel who needs to be impeached.

    congress needs to put their hand in their pants and do an inventory check…


  126. Lily
    127 | March 6, 2013 5:34 pm

    Obama ******* and his Arab Spring!

    Egypt: Al Azhar Professor Says Christians Will Pay Sharia-Based Jizya Tax…

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/03/06/egypt-al-azhar-professor-says-christians-will-pay-sharia-based-jizya-tax/


  127. buzzsawmonkey
    128 | March 6, 2013 5:36 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Egypt: Al Azhar Professor Says Christians Will Pay Sharia-Based Jizya Tax…

    Copts and robbers…


  128. brookly red
    129 | March 6, 2013 5:36 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Obama ******* and his Arab Spring!

    Egypt: Al Azhar Professor Says Christians Will Pay Sharia-Based Jizya Tax…

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/03/06/egypt-al-azhar-professor-says-christians-will-pay-sharia-based-jizya-tax/

    and we give these people foreign aid… so yes we already do.


  129. eaglesoars
    130 | March 6, 2013 5:38 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Another crapweasel who needs to be impeached.

    Impeached? Oh HELL no.

    He needs to be in jail.

    In Mexico.

    That man has blood on his hands.


  130. Lily
    131 | March 6, 2013 5:39 pm

    @ brookly red:

    We do not pay any money to these evil cult! Again I say we need a new president….ASAP!


  131. Lily
    132 | March 6, 2013 5:41 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Egypt: Al Azhar Professor Says Christians Will Pay Sharia-Based Jizya Tax…
    Copts and robbers…

    *Shakes head* Oh buzz no you didn’t? But I must say fitting.


  132. taxfreekiller
    133 | March 6, 2013 5:41 pm

    tset


  133. Lily
    134 | March 6, 2013 5:43 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    Another crapweasel who needs to be impeached.
    Impeached? Oh HELL no.
    He needs to be in jail.
    In Mexico.
    That man has blood on his hands.

    Yes he does…and Mexico sounds like a nice place if I say so myself.
    Excellent idea eaglesoars…excellent. No nicey, nicey there!


  134. taxfreekiller
    135 | March 6, 2013 5:44 pm

    yes,

    We had Ralp Hall call Cornyn’s office and tell him to get off his ass and help a fellow Texan under attack. That and many of the guys at the Alamo were from Kentucky…..@ eaglesoars:


  135. Lily
    136 | March 6, 2013 5:44 pm

    taxfreekiller wrote:

    tset

    New word? Is it a bird?
    / ;)


  136. lobo91
    137 | March 6, 2013 5:45 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    Impeached? Oh HELL no.

    He needs to be in jail.

    Pretty hard to jail the sitting Attorney General, since the federal law enforcement apparatus (and the Bureau of Prisons) works for him.

    After he’s been removed from office, they can do what they like with him.


  137. eaglesoars
    138 | March 6, 2013 5:46 pm

    taxfreekiller wrote:

    tset

    :lol:


  138. eaglesoars
    139 | March 6, 2013 5:47 pm

    Lily wrote:

    No nicey, nicey there!

    I’m not a nice person.


  139. Lily
    140 | March 6, 2013 5:51 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    No nicey, nicey there!
    I’m not a nice person.

    LOL! Louisiana ladies can hold their own….for sure! ;)


  140. eaglesoars
    141 | March 6, 2013 5:52 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:

    Impeached? Oh HELL no.

    He needs to be in jail.

    Pretty hard to jail the sitting Attorney General, since the federal law enforcement apparatus (and the Bureau of Prisons) works for him.

    After he’s been removed from office, they can do what they like with him.

    first problem -- how to get him to Mexico.

    somehow I don’t think the Mexican gov’t would have trouble keeping him in their gentle custody -- how many Mexicans has he killed? 300 or so?

    And this murderer has to think about whether it’s constitutional to use drones to kill Americans on American soil

    I want him gone.


  141. Lily
    142 | March 6, 2013 5:55 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    How to get him to Mexico…..he doesn’t visit the South….but if you ask someone and the price is right…just saying..


  142. heysoos
    143 | March 6, 2013 5:55 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Impeached? Oh HELL no.
    He needs to be in jail.
    Pretty hard to jail the sitting Attorney General, since the federal law enforcement apparatus (and the Bureau of Prisons) works for him.
    After he’s been removed from office, they can do what they like with him.

    threaten BO with impeachment if he doesn’t fire Holder


  143. brookly red
    144 | March 6, 2013 5:56 pm

    If you are not listing to Paul you should be … http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN2/


  144. Lily
    145 | March 6, 2013 5:56 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    A lovely woman…would do it for the right price if you get my drift.


  145. buzzsawmonkey
    146 | March 6, 2013 5:57 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    first problem — how to get him to Mexico.

    Tie his feet to the rear bumper of a Washington cab, pay the flat rate, and have the cab drag him.


  146. Lily
    147 | March 6, 2013 5:59 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:
    first problem — how to get him to Mexico.
    Tie his feet to the rear bumper of a Washington cab, pay the flat rate, and have the cab drag him.

    I went with the soft touch first…then after they get in Mexico…whatever! If you get what I mean.


  147. heysoos
    148 | March 6, 2013 6:00 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:
    first problem — how to get him to Mexico.
    Tie his feet to the rear bumper of a Washington cab, pay the flat rate, and have the cab drag him.

    as Jack Reacher would say…
    “not perfect, but reasonable”


  148. brookly red
    149 | March 6, 2013 6:00 pm

    Lily wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:

    A lovely woman…would do it for the right price if you get my drift.

    no, do tell.


  149. eaglesoars
    150 | March 6, 2013 6:01 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Tie his feet to the rear bumper of a Washington cab, pay the flat rate, and have the cab drag him.

    you are dreaming. some of the laziest people you will ever meet.

    when I have to run around town I hire a private car.

    I do the same thing in NYC but I must say the cabbies there can be marvelous


  150. eaglesoars
    151 | March 6, 2013 6:02 pm

    CSPAN just left Paul and went to Graham


  151. brookly red
    152 | March 6, 2013 6:03 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Impeached? Oh HELL no.
    He needs to be in jail.
    Pretty hard to jail the sitting Attorney General, since the federal law enforcement apparatus (and the Bureau of Prisons) works for him.
    After he’s been removed from office, they can do what they like with him.

    threaten BO with impeachment if he doesn’t fire Holder

    why not just impeach BO?


  152. brookly red
    153 | March 6, 2013 6:04 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    CSPAN just left Paul and went to Graham

    I got Paul http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN2/


  153. heysoos
    154 | March 6, 2013 6:05 pm

    here’s the Cruzer smackdown of Holder, via Rush…this guy does not pussy foot around big shots…you gotta love that
    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/03/06/fearless_cruz_breaks_down_holder


  154. lobo91
    155 | March 6, 2013 6:05 pm

    @ heysoos:

    threaten BO with impeachment if he doesn’t fire Holder

    Not much of a threat, since he knows it would never get through the Senate.

    He’d count being impeached on a party line vote in the House as a badge of honor.


  155. heysoos
    156 | March 6, 2013 6:05 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    lobo91 wrote:
    @ eaglesoars:
    Impeached? Oh HELL no.
    He needs to be in jail.
    Pretty hard to jail the sitting Attorney General, since the federal law enforcement apparatus (and the Bureau of Prisons) works for him.
    After he’s been removed from office, they can do what they like with him.
    threaten BO with impeachment if he doesn’t fire Holder

    why not just impeach BO?

    on what grounds?


  156. taxfreekiller
    157 | March 6, 2013 6:06 pm

    bad test


  157. lobo91
    158 | March 6, 2013 6:06 pm

    @ brookly red:

    why not just impeach BO?

    A drone strike would be better.


  158. brookly red
    159 | March 6, 2013 6:06 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    brookly red wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    lobo91 wrote:
    @ eaglesoars:
    Impeached? Oh HELL no.
    He needs to be in jail.
    Pretty hard to jail the sitting Attorney General, since the federal law enforcement apparatus (and the Bureau of Prisons) works for him.
    After he’s been removed from office, they can do what they like with him.
    threaten BO with impeachment if he doesn’t fire Holder

    why not just impeach BO?

    on what grounds?

    circumvention of congress.


  159. eaglesoars
    160 | March 6, 2013 6:07 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    why not just impeach BO?

    martyrdom


  160. eaglesoars
    161 | March 6, 2013 6:08 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:

    CSPAN just left Paul and went to Graham

    I got Paul http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN2/

    thank you sweetie


  161. heysoos
    162 | March 6, 2013 6:13 pm

    Cruz is now a target…should be interesting how that shakes out


  162. eaglesoars
    163 | March 6, 2013 6:14 pm

    Greg Gutfeld on THE FIVE had a good point.

    Soon we’ll all have our own drones.

    THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS

    Paul is getting tired……………..


  163. eaglesoars
    164 | March 6, 2013 6:15 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    Cruz is now a target…should be interesting how that shakes out

    I don’t think that man can be intimidated.


  164. heysoos
    165 | March 6, 2013 6:18 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    Cruz is now a target…should be interesting how that shakes out

    I don’t think that man can be intimidated.

    is he a natural born citizen, with regard to POTUS?


  165. eaglesoars
    166 | March 6, 2013 6:20 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    Cruz is now a target…should be interesting how that shakes out

    I don’t think that man can be intimidated.

    is he a natural born citizen, with regard to POTUS?

    ok you lost me


  166. buzzsawmonkey
    167 | March 6, 2013 6:20 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    on what grounds?

    You mean “which” grounds, don’t you?


  167. lobo91
    168 | March 6, 2013 6:21 pm

    @ heysoos:

    He was born in Canada.


  168. heysoos
    169 | March 6, 2013 6:23 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    on what grounds?
    You mean “which” grounds, don’t you?

    Chief Many Grounds


  169. heysoos
    170 | March 6, 2013 6:23 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:
    heysoos wrote:
    on what grounds?
    You mean “which” grounds, don’t you?

    Chief Many Grounds

    his mother was a US citizen…how does that work?


  170. Speranza
    171 | March 6, 2013 6:30 pm

    Are we starting again with the “natural born citizen”?


  171. lobo91
    172 | March 6, 2013 6:30 pm

    @ heysoos:

    If he was born in a foreign country, the answer is no.

    McCain was an exception, because he was born in what used to be the Panama Canal Zone, which was a US territory at the time.


  172. heysoos
    173 | March 6, 2013 6:30 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Are we starting again with the “natural born citizen”?

    Speranza wrote:

    Are we starting again with the “natural born citizen”?

    no, it was me alone, the rest are innocent


  173. Lily
    174 | March 6, 2013 6:32 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    @ eaglesoars:
    A lovely woman…would do it for the right price if you get my drift.
    no, do tell.

    Women can be some of the deadiest people out there…especially in the south…a son goes and tells on his daddy if daddy is bad….it’s a bad sight…everything goes side-ways after that. ;)


  174. heysoos
    175 | March 6, 2013 6:32 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    If he was born in a foreign country, the answer is no.
    McCain was an exception, because he was born in what used to be the Panama Canal Zone, which was a US territory at the time.

    surfing the question real quick….there is a strong argument for him being natural born, but there is no precedent, this particular combination


  175. eaglesoars
    176 | March 6, 2013 6:33 pm

    I just got an email from a friend in Wales.

    They’re watching Rand Paul on CSPAN

    transfixed


  176. heysoos
    177 | March 6, 2013 6:36 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    I just got an email from a friend in Wales.
    They’re watching Rand Paul on CSPAN
    transfixed

    probably waiting for him to mount his horse, fix his ten gallon hat, draw his Peacemaker and ride to glory


  177. lobo91
    178 | March 6, 2013 6:36 pm

    @ heysoos:

    surfing the question real quick….there is a strong argument for him being natural born, but there is no precedent, this particular combination

    There’s no precedent, period. It’s not a defined term by statute or in the Constitution, and the courts have never ruled on it.


  178. brookly red
    179 | March 6, 2013 6:36 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    I just got an email from a friend in Wales.

    They’re watching Rand Paul on CSPAN

    transfixed

    this is major. If Obama was Imperial Japan, Paul is the Doolittle raid… this is the beginning of the resistance.


  179. brookly red
    180 | March 6, 2013 6:38 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Women can be some of the deadiest people out there…

    well they sure can kill a thread :)


  180. heysoos
    181 | March 6, 2013 6:38 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    surfing the question real quick….there is a strong argument for him being natural born, but there is no precedent, this particular combination
    There’s no precedent, period. It’s not a defined term by statute or in the Constitution, and the courts have never ruled on it.

    it appears that if one parent is a natural born citizen, then any child is as well regardless of location…I just skimmed 3 sources which all concluded that no one actually knows what ‘natural born’ means


  181. heysoos
    182 | March 6, 2013 6:39 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    surfing the question real quick….there is a strong argument for him being natural born, but there is no precedent, this particular combination
    There’s no precedent, period. It’s not a defined term by statute or in the Constitution, and the courts have never ruled on it.

    time to update the files


  182. RIX
    183 | March 6, 2013 6:40 pm

    Senator Moran from Kansas is now pinch hitting for Rand Paul.
    It goes on.


  183. brookly red
    184 | March 6, 2013 6:41 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Senator Moran from Kansas is now pinch hitting for Rand Paul.
    It goes on.

    we are watching history, this is the first shot in resistance.


  184. heysoos
    185 | March 6, 2013 6:41 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Senator Moran from Kansas is now pinch hitting for Rand Paul.
    It goes on.

    free hot dogs and beer!…
    help out and pig out!


  185. Lily
    186 | March 6, 2013 6:42 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:
    Tie his feet to the rear bumper of a Washington cab, pay the flat rate, and have the cab drag him.
    you are dreaming. some of the laziest people you will ever meet.
    when I have to run around town I hire a private car.
    I do the same thing in NYC but I must say the cabbies there can be marvelous

    Oh yes….piss a woman off ..you got trouble..especially a voodoo priestist….*shakes head* Really bad mojo.


  186. lobo91
    187 | March 6, 2013 6:43 pm

    @ heysoos:

    it appears that if one parent is a natural born citizen, then any child is as well regardless of location…

    No, that makes the person a US citizen by birth. Not the same thing.

    I just skimmed 3 sources which all concluded that no one actually knows what ‘natural born’ means

    That’s the right answer. It’s never been settled.


  187. Lily
    188 | March 6, 2013 6:44 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Women can be some of the deadiest people out there…
    well they sure can kill a thread

    See? You can see it in r.e.a.l. time. 8-)


  188. brookly red
    189 | March 6, 2013 6:45 pm

    Lily wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:
    Tie his feet to the rear bumper of a Washington cab, pay the flat rate, and have the cab drag him.
    you are dreaming. some of the laziest people you will ever meet.
    when I have to run around town I hire a private car.
    I do the same thing in NYC but I must say the cabbies there can be marvelous

    Oh yes….piss a woman off ..you got trouble..especially a voodoo priestist….*shakes head* Really bad mojo.

    do tell…


  189. RIX
    190 | March 6, 2013 6:45 pm

    @ brookly red:
    @ heysoos:

    This is a civics lesson. Rand Paul is the real deal.


  190. heysoos
    191 | March 6, 2013 6:46 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    it appears that if one parent is a natural born citizen, then any child is as well regardless of location…
    No, that makes the person a US citizen by birth. Not the same thing.
    I just skimmed 3 sources which all concluded that no one actually knows what ‘natural born’ means
    That’s the right answer. It’s never been settled.

    not really a big deal to me but an interesting question…and Cruz has aspiration written all over him…he well may be the tipping point to fix the definitions


  191. Lily
    192 | March 6, 2013 6:46 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    I just got an email from a friend in Wales.
    They’re watching Rand Paul on CSPAN
    transfixed

    I’ve been really out of it the past few days…and I’m totally out of the loop here.
    /so please excuse my ignoranist here. Still trying to recover.


  192. 193 | March 6, 2013 6:48 pm

    Lily wrote:

    The problem was obama…period. First this, first that, and first everything. Something new….as long as Republicans keep eating their own they will never, ever get anywhere anymore.

    You got that right.

    I also think that the technical tools the Dems had for reaching the lo-fo voters, and their setup for election theft in every city of any size, played a huge part in it.

    *putting on prediction hat* I do not believe that the “good guys” (such as they are) will ever succeed in taking back the US federal government and restoring a functional republic under some semblance of Constitutional rule. I just don’t see it happening. No matter who runs, no matter how hard they work, no matter what message they try. Why? Partly because of the dumbing down and indoctrination of the public. In addition, too much damage has already been done to the US economy. The debt level combined with the political stranglehold means that a deep economic collapse cannot now be avoided. We are just in the beginning stages of a second, and greater, depression. I predict it will last a minimum of two to three decades, and I would not bet on a recovery happening ever.

    I decline to predict whether or not there will be armed conflict. We already have tyranny, and it will get worse. I would suggest that the likeliest scenario is that the Chinese will eventually come in and mop up the scraps of whatever is left.

    *sadly removing prediction hat*


  193. brookly red
    194 | March 6, 2013 6:49 pm

    RIX wrote:

    @ brookly red:
    @ heysoos:

    This is a civics lesson. Rand Paul is the real deal.

    God grant him strength


  194. Lily
    195 | March 6, 2013 6:50 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Lily wrote:
    Women can be some of the deadiest people out there…
    well they sure can kill a thread

    With style too!
    /oh and the shoes are to die for! ;)


  195. heysoos
    196 | March 6, 2013 6:50 pm

    @ 1389AD:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny


  196. 197 | March 6, 2013 6:51 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    @ heysoos:
    This is a civics lesson. Rand Paul is the real deal.

    God grant him strength

    He probably is.

    That said, so was Newt.


  197. heysoos
    198 | March 6, 2013 6:51 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    @ heysoos:
    This is a civics lesson. Rand Paul is the real deal.

    God grant him strength

    spinach does the same thing


  198. lobo91
    199 | March 6, 2013 6:53 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ 1389AD:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny

    That’s exactly what it is.

    Our country is based on the concept of a government that operates with “the consent of the governed.”

    That ship has sailed.


  199. buzzsawmonkey
    200 | March 6, 2013 6:54 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny

    That is only because all of the health-care regs, the added business regs, the loss of power in the grid from the shuttering of coal plants, the increases in the cost of gasoline, the increases in the cost of food, the continued flatlining of property values, the loss of jobs, etc., have not really hit yet.

    The reason they have not hit is because the President, running out of control with no budget, is borrowing trillions from the Chinese to soften the blows…for the moment.

    But a tyranny where everyone is getting their gubmint dole is still a tyranny.


  200. 201 | March 6, 2013 6:56 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ 1389AD:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny

    I respectfully disagree. There’s much more going on than EOs. The Dems already pretty much own the court system. They have the White House. They have the Senate. The only reason they didn’t get the House is because the distribution of Congressional districts still makes it too hard for them to steal the whole thing. They own the media. They own the schools. They own the NGOs and foundations.

    When Reagan was in office, who could have imagined the level of tyranny of “political correctness” that we are facing today?

    If you don’t call that tyranny, I sure do.

    As I see it, the federal government has crushed the economy with regulations that never existed before, and that has caused many hard working people to face destitution as they get older. The opportunities that once existed are gone.

    I call that tyranny.


  201. eaglesoars
    202 | March 6, 2013 6:56 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ 1389AD:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny

    I love you like a bro’ but you REALLY haven’t been paying attention to the EPA


  202. 203 | March 6, 2013 6:57 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny
    That is only because all of the health-care regs, the added business regs, the loss of power in the grid from the shuttering of coal plants, the increases in the cost of gasoline, the increases in the cost of food, the continued flatlining of property values, the loss of jobs, etc., have not really hit yet.
    The reason they have not hit is because the President, running out of control with no budget, is borrowing trillions from the Chinese to soften the blows…for the moment.
    But a tyranny where everyone is getting their gubmint dole is still a tyranny.

    Some of us don’t get the gubmint dole now.

    And we wont get SS or medicare later, or if we do, it won’t be enough to keep body & soul together.

    I’m in a public wifi and have to leave now. I have cellphone dialup and our ISP is down. Probably will be gone until tomorrow.


  203. heysoos
    204 | March 6, 2013 6:58 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    @ 1389AD:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny
    That’s exactly what it is.
    Our country is based on the concept of a government that operates with “the consent of the governed.”
    That ship has sailed.

    you exaggerate…if you believed that then why the hell are you paying income taxes?…conservatives are getting pushed around but I don’t see much tyranny, as in the people have no power…they could have voted BO out of office but didn’t…if it’s tyranny it’s certainly beatable…if Congress does not want him to have his power, then they can deny it through impeachment, or defunding, or simply outvoting his legislature…attempting tyranny is not the same as accomplishing tyrrany


  204. heysoos
    205 | March 6, 2013 6:58 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    @ 1389AD:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny

    I love you like a bro’ but you REALLY haven’t been paying attention to the EPA

    the means to shut down the EPA is there…defund them


  205. Lily
    206 | March 6, 2013 6:59 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    brookly red wrote:
    RIX wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    @ heysoos:
    This is a civics lesson. Rand Paul is the real deal.
    God grant him strength
    spinach does the same thing

    ?

    /really you went there. *shakes head*


  206. lobo91
    207 | March 6, 2013 6:59 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    Just look at the situation with the courts.

    We have federal courts literally deciding that the will of the people doesn’t matter by overturning the results of referenda.

    If that’s not tyranny, I don’t know what is.


  207. Lily
    208 | March 6, 2013 6:59 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    RIX wrote:
    @ brookly red:
    @ heysoos:
    This is a civics lesson. Rand Paul is the real deal.
    God grant him strength

    Indeed!


  208. Lily
    209 | March 6, 2013 7:01 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Just look at the situation with the courts.
    We have federal courts literally deciding that the will of the people doesn’t matter by overturning the results of referenda.
    If that’s not tyranny, I don’t know what is.

    Tyranny indeed.
    /obama goes around congress, everything and rules by decree and if that isn’t tyranny what is?


  209. 210 | March 6, 2013 7:01 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    heysoos wrote:
    @ 1389AD:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny
    That’s exactly what it is.
    Our country is based on the concept of a government that operates with “the consent of the governed.”
    That ship has sailed.

    you exaggerate…if you believed that then why the hell are you paying income taxes?…conservatives are getting pushed around but I don’t see much tyranny, as in the people have no power…they could have voted BO out of office but didn’t…if it’s tyranny it’s certainly beatable…if Congress does not want him to have his power, then they can deny it through impeachment, or defunding, or simply outvoting his legislature…attempting tyranny is not the same as accomplishing tyrrany

    Hiding from tyranny and not earning enough to pay taxes is not the same as not having tyranny.

    A tyranny of the majority (whether a real majority or a stolen one) is tyranny nonetheless. That is exactly what our Founders wanted to avoid.

    Impeachment (and the impeachment trial in the Senate) always breaks down along political lines. The bad guys already own the Senate.

    See ya later, God willing.


  210. heysoos
    211 | March 6, 2013 7:02 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Just look at the situation with the courts.
    We have federal courts literally deciding that the will of the people doesn’t matter by overturning the results of referenda.
    If that’s not tyranny, I don’t know what is.

    bulls eye…the real power is in the appointed federal courts…I’m not saying that tyranny is not impossible…we’re just not there yet


  211. lobo91
    212 | March 6, 2013 7:02 pm

    @ heysoos:

    If you think we actually have a voice in how this country runs today, then you need to put down the bong.

    We have officials of our government discussing whether or not they can assassinate you.


  212. eaglesoars
    213 | March 6, 2013 7:02 pm

    Here is Paul’s contact page

    write to say thank you.

    do it


  213. buzzsawmonkey
    214 | March 6, 2013 7:03 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Just look at the situation with the courts.

    We have federal courts literally deciding that the will of the people doesn’t matter by overturning the results of referenda.

    If that’s not tyranny, I don’t know what is.

    Said it before, will say it again: Supreme Court, this spring. Same-sex marriage declared “a civil right,” imposed on all fifty states. Prop 8 vote voided, which means the people cannot amend their own state constitution and the Tenth Amendment is dead. Same-sex marriage imposed as a “civil right” will destroy the First Amendment, as it was intended to do.

    Is that “tyranny,” or just “tranny?”


  214. Da_Beerfreak
    215 | March 6, 2013 7:03 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    heysoos wrote:

    @ 1389AD:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny

    That’s exactly what it is.

    Our country is based on the concept of a government that operates with “the consent of the governed.”

    That ship has sailed.

    That ship has sunk…


  215. heysoos
    216 | March 6, 2013 7:07 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    If you think we actually have a voice in how this country runs today, then you need to put down the bong.
    We have officials of our government discussing whether or not they can assassinate you.

    you’re preaching to the choir bro…as it is, the voters allow this situation, where they could have resisted it with more firepower…as for the feds doing whatever they want, they cannot dismiss a clear and honest vote…what we are seeing is a sort of morph into pre-tyranny and most voters are as yet aware of it…the liberals may win some form of tyranny in the future, but that’s a long way off…I have spent many words here describing federal authority and my personal beliefs…but we are not yet there


  216. lobo91
    217 | March 6, 2013 7:07 pm

    @ heysoos:

    bulls eye…the real power is in the appointed federal courts…I’m not saying that tyranny is not impossible…we’re just not there yet

    What you’re actually saying is that you don’t know the meaning of the word.


  217. eaglesoars
    218 | March 6, 2013 7:07 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    the means to shut down the EPA is there…defund them

    when did you get naive?

    our (I use the term loosely) POTUS thinks he can assassinate American citizens w/o due process -- Rand Paul has been fillibustering for over 7 hrs -- Holder murders citizens of other countries in order to make the case for taking our weapons and the Dept Of Education has its own SWAT team.

    Your smart ass, off the cuff -- ‘defund’ remark is unworthy of you.

    Of all people.


  218. Lily
    219 | March 6, 2013 7:08 pm

    @ 1389AD:

    You have some good points…but you have no idea what the next generation is all about. They are not going to let their country swirl down the drain. They are buying guns like no tomorrow…(I’m talking 20′s and 30′s young adults and they are not in trouble…they obey the law)…..keep the faith. You would be surprised exactly how many people KNOW something is wrong and refuse to back down.


  219. heysoos
    220 | March 6, 2013 7:09 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    bulls eye…the real power is in the appointed federal courts…I’m not saying that tyranny is not impossible…we’re just not there yet
    What you’re actually saying is that you don’t know the meaning of the word.

    relax, no reason to insult me, not a good idea…this is a flowing discussion, not your idea of perfection


  220. lobo91
    221 | March 6, 2013 7:10 pm

    tyr·an·ny
    [tir-uh-nee]

    noun, plural tyr·an·nies.
    1.
    arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship.

    If there’s anything restraining Obama’s exercise of power, I sure as hell don’t see it.


  221. Lily
    222 | March 6, 2013 7:11 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    heysoos wrote:
    @ 1389AD:
    I highly disagree that “we already have tyranny”…a president run amok, fucking around with EO’s is hardly tyranny
    That’s exactly what it is.
    Our country is based on the concept of a government that operates with “the consent of the governed.”
    That ship has sailed.
    you exaggerate…if you believed that then why the hell are you paying income taxes?…conservatives are getting pushed around but I don’t see much tyranny, as in the people have no power…they could have voted BO out of office but didn’t…if it’s tyranny it’s certainly beatable…if Congress does not want him to have his power, then they can deny it through impeachment, or defunding, or simply outvoting his legislature…attempting tyranny is not the same as accomplishing tyrrany

    Lobo served this country I think he knows what tyranny is all about.


  222. eaglesoars
    223 | March 6, 2013 7:12 pm

    WHAT??

    What is Durbin doing? ducking the vote?


  223. lobo91
    224 | March 6, 2013 7:12 pm

    @ Lily:

    See #221


  224. brookly red
    225 | March 6, 2013 7:13 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    tyr·an·ny
    [tir-uh-nee]

    noun, plural tyr·an·nies.
    1.
    arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship.

    If there’s anything restraining Obama’s exercise of power, I sure as hell don’t see it.

    The Second Amendment


  225. heysoos
    226 | March 6, 2013 7:13 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    tyr·an·ny
    [tir-uh-nee]
    noun, plural tyr·an·nies.
    1.
    arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship.
    If there’s anything restraining Obama’s exercise of power, I sure as hell don’t see it.

    starting to get the gist of how the GOP let down their money sending, sleepy eyed drones?….BO could not have done it himself, if he’s tyrannical, how did you and your party allow this to happen?…you accuse me of stupidity, I saw republicans are guilty, not me


  226. Lily
    227 | March 6, 2013 7:17 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    tyr·an·ny
    [tir-uh-nee]
    noun, plural tyr·an·nies.
    1.
    arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship.
    If there’s anything restraining Obama’s exercise of power, I sure as hell don’t see it.

    Lobo go *boom* you got it right!


  227. lobo91
    228 | March 6, 2013 7:17 pm

    @ heysoos:

    You’re right. It’s clearly my fault.


  228. eaglesoars
    229 | March 6, 2013 7:17 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    how did you and your party allow this to happen?…you

    You and lobo91 can have your own fight -- but what you’re leaving out is the utter complicity of the media.


  229. Lily
    230 | March 6, 2013 7:18 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    tyr·an·ny
    [tir-uh-nee]
    noun, plural tyr·an·nies.
    1.
    arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship.
    If there’s anything restraining Obama’s exercise of power, I sure as hell don’t see it.

    Neither do I.


  230. Speranza
    231 | March 6, 2013 7:20 pm

    Bumr50 wrote:

    BILL COSBY SUGGESTS GOP WANTS TO BRING BACK SLAVERY

    I thought Cosby was more intelligent than that.


  231. Lily
    232 | March 6, 2013 7:21 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    tyr·an·ny
    [tir-uh-nee]
    noun, plural tyr·an·nies.
    1.
    arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority. Synonyms: despotism, absolutism, dictatorship.
    If there’s anything restraining Obama’s exercise of power, I sure as hell don’t see it.
    starting to get the gist of how the GOP let down their money sending, sleepy eyed drones?….BO could not have done it himself, if he’s tyrannical, how did you and your party allow this to happen?…you accuse me of stupidity, I saw republicans are guilty, not me

    Republicans didn’t lose it……people were not paying attention. I mean Benghazi so close to the election and obama still wins…we have a nation of idiots. Or at least 1/2 idiots.


  232. heysoos
    233 | March 6, 2013 7:21 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    You’re right. It’s clearly my fault.

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    You’re right. It’s clearly my fault.

    not much of an answer…BO did not sneak up on anyone…when I first posted here not even a year ago, I spoke of my disgust with the GOP and that I didn’t trust them etc…a number of people called me a troll…well lookie here, BO copped another term and the GOP is on life support…tell me when was the last time they did you any favors?…oh yeah, 2010


  233. buzzsawmonkey
    234 | March 6, 2013 7:22 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    I thought Cosby was more intelligent than that.

    Cosby’s criticism of the black community’s mores was for internal consumption. As far as the larger society is concerned, despite his huge success within the larger society, Cosby’s point of view is every bit as blinkered as Al Sharpton’s.


  234. Lily
    235 | March 6, 2013 7:22 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    You’re right. It’s clearly my fault.

    Right huh? Not!


  235. Lily
    236 | March 6, 2013 7:23 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    how did you and your party allow this to happen?…you
    You and lobo91 can have your own fight — but what you’re leaving out is the utter complicity of the media.

    Bingo and did hey even vote?


  236. heysoos
    237 | March 6, 2013 7:23 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Bumr50 wrote:
    BILL COSBY SUGGESTS GOP WANTS TO BRING BACK SLAVERY
    I thought Cosby was more intelligent than that.

    yeah, very disappointing from I guy I admired alot…he should stick to his fatherless child gig


  237. brookly red
    238 | March 6, 2013 7:23 pm

    DAMN Paul is letting it all hang out


  238. Lily
    239 | March 6, 2013 7:23 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Bumr50 wrote:
    BILL COSBY SUGGESTS GOP WANTS TO BRING BACK SLAVERY
    I thought Cosby was more intelligent than that.

    Again …we have a nation of idiots it seems.


  239. heysoos
    240 | March 6, 2013 7:26 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    DAMN Paul is letting it all hang out

    he still going?…anybody rescue him?


  240. lobo91
    241 | March 6, 2013 7:26 pm

    @ Lily:

    None of the things they taught you in civics class are operational anymore.

    Impeachment is a hollow threat. There’s almost no chance that you’ll ever see a big enough Senate majority to remove a president from office, and it certainly won’t happen with this one.

    Congressional oversight? We have Cabinet secretaries ignoring contempt citations and just telling Congress to go to hell.

    Same thing with court orders.

    Defunding them is a non-starter, as well, for the same reason as impeachment. Besides, we haven’t had a budget since 2009, anyway.

    What we’ve really seen over the past few years is some glaring flaws in our Constitution that nobody ever thought would come up. The framers didn’t think about the possibility that we might one day elect someone who would just ignore the rules.


  241. brookly red
    242 | March 6, 2013 7:28 pm

    Lily wrote:

    Speranza wrote:

    Bumr50 wrote:
    BILL COSBY SUGGESTS GOP WANTS TO BRING BACK SLAVERY
    I thought Cosby was more intelligent than that.

    Again …we have a nation of idiots it seems.

    Dr. Cosby has made his wealth and now like a good liberal he will play the race card… I welcome him to to go to hell.


  242. buzzsawmonkey
    243 | March 6, 2013 7:29 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    not much of an answer…BO did not sneak up on anyone…when I first posted here not even a year ago, I spoke of my disgust with the GOP and that I didn’t trust them etc…a number of people called me a troll…well lookie here, BO copped another term and the GOP is on life support…tell me when was the last time they did you any favors?…oh yeah, 2010

    OK. Let’s look at my discussions, recently, of same-sex marriage. Many people, you among them, have said to me, “what’s the big deal? Live and let live, yadda yadda—whom does it hurt?”

    I’ve tried to point out to people here that the legal re-definition of marriage—not the denial of some legal protections to same-sex unions, but re-defining “marriage” to accommodate them—was an axe-blow to the trunk of the Bill of Rights. Despite the conservative inclinations of most people here, that warning has fallen on largely deaf ears. Lots of people who can see how the squandering of vast sums of money is a bad idea, but many fewer, alas, seem willing or able to wrap their minds around how the distortion of this abstract thing called “rights” can come back to bite them on the ass.

    So it does not surprise me that so many people have fallen for the Snakeoil Salesman in Chief. There are lots of people who are not sophisticated when it comes to money; there are lots of people who fall for promises of free stuff; there are lots of people—the same-sex marriage discussions here have taught me that—who haven’t the foggiest clue how “rights” work.


  243. lobo91
    244 | March 6, 2013 7:31 pm

    Meanwhile, from our friends in the media, who are supposed to act as watchdogs:

    Gibbs: Killing Americans With No Due Process Using Drone Strikes Is “Not Against American Values”…

    And it get’s better, Baghdad Bob claims waterboarding al-Qaeda leaders is against our values.


  244. eaglesoars
    245 | March 6, 2013 7:32 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Cosby’s criticism of the black community’s mores was for internal consumption. As far as the larger society is concerned, despite his huge success within the larger society, Cosby’s point of view is every bit as blinkered as Al Sharpton’s.

    I don’t give much weight to someone’s so-called ‘moral authority’ who has spent years betraying his marital vows.


  245. buzzsawmonkey
    246 | March 6, 2013 7:32 pm

    brookly red wrote:

    Dr. Cosby has made his wealth and now like a good liberal he will play the race card… I welcome him to to go to hell.

    “Cozbi” is the name of the Midianite woman in Numbers 25 who was the leader of the orgy that caused a plague to come upon the Israelites.


  246. eaglesoars
    247 | March 6, 2013 7:33 pm

    heh.

    Cruz noting that twitter is ‘blowing up’


  247. 248 | March 6, 2013 7:34 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Just don’t waterboard ‘em Lobo — that would be a big no no.


  248. lobo91
    249 | March 6, 2013 7:34 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    So it does not surprise me that so many people have fallen for the Snakeoil Salesman in Chief. There are lots of people who are not sophisticated when it comes to money; there are lots of people who fall for promises of free stuff; there are lots of people—the same-sex marriage discussions here have taught me that—who haven’t the foggiest clue how “rights” work.

    We haven’t spent trillions on public education for nothing, you know…
    //


  249. lobo91
    250 | March 6, 2013 7:35 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    Just don’t waterboard ‘em Lobo — that would be a big no no.

    Or make them listen to loud music. Or be too hot or too cold. Or feed them non-halal meals. Or touch their Korans.


  250. heysoos
    251 | March 6, 2013 7:36 pm

    @ lobo91:
    @ lobo91:
    well said…
    the only device left to the GOP is the law…I hate the thought of impeachment because I feel it demeans all Americans and this heretofor cool system we live under…we invented this system, it’s ours and I really bothers me to see it’s flaws exposed…so does Lobo, we might disagree one pound but we do agree one ton…in the next year, depending, the GOP needs to make their aims clear, forget the media, and press on with the constitution…there are ways around an EO, but is the GOP even pursuing that?…now that Holder is in contempt of Congress what is the GOP plan? I have not heard one…BO has the GOP running around in 3 different circles, creating division…where is the GOP defense?…this little dustup in the senate right now is exactly the politics the GOP should play, on every issue, every day 24/7…but they don’t…if you don’t challenge BO with the available tools, then what?


  251. buzzsawmonkey
    252 | March 6, 2013 7:39 pm

    Wouldn’t It Be Nice?
    —apologies to the Beach Boys and “Wouldn’t It Be Nice?“

    Wouldn’t it be nice to be dictator
    And to not pay Congress any mind?
    And wouldn’t it be nice to just pay later
    Without debt ceilings of any kind?

    You know that it would be a time of plenty
    Without Republican intransigency

    Wouldn’t it be nice if I could give you
    All the lovely things you don’t have yet?
    Don’t you know I only haven’t done so
    Because some folks have corporate jets

    Just a little expansion of powers
    And this life of lotus would be ours
    Wouldn’t it be nice?

    Maybe if I went and expanded the Fourteenth Amendment
    With an interpretation that was never intended
    I’d get my own way
    And then I’d be happy

    Wouldn’t it be nice?

    I wouldn’t say a coup is contemplated
    But listening to Congress seems so dated
    So I’ve only stated
    Wouldn’t it be nice?


  252. eaglesoars
    253 | March 6, 2013 7:41 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    now that Holder is in contempt of Congress what is the GOP plan?

    excellent point

    one reason we are living in tyranny is because the GOP is run by self-interested cowards


  253. lobo91
    254 | March 6, 2013 7:41 pm

    “The president who said we’re not going to tap phones without a warrant, we’re not going to torture people, now says we’re going to kill people without due process? I find that incredibly hypocritical and incredibly ironic.”

    --Rand Paul


  254. heysoos
    255 | March 6, 2013 7:42 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    excellent…I’m a Beach Boy fan


  255. buzzsawmonkey
    256 | March 6, 2013 7:44 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    the only device left to the GOP is the law…I hate the thought of impeachment because I feel it demeans all Americans and this heretofor cool system we live under…

    Impeachment is not a practical option—but it should be pointed out that this is part of the law, and part of what you call “this heretofore cool system we live under.”

    It is a particular legal option for a particular problem. That it cannot be followed with any expectation of success because of partisanship is part of the problem.


  256. lobo91
    257 | March 6, 2013 7:45 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    Again, that situation brings up one of the flaws in our system. Congress has no actual enforcement mechanism against the executive branch.

    It never occured to the framers that we’d have a president who would just ignore the rules.


  257. heysoos
    258 | March 6, 2013 7:46 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    now that Holder is in contempt of Congress what is the GOP plan?
    excellent point
    one reason we are living in tyranny is because the GOP is run by self-interested cowards

    the GOP needs to get inside BO’s head…fish around and exploit his vanity…spread rumors, a head nod, a fake..whatever it takes but attack his weakness, create a vibe that irritates him into shit he wished he hadn’t…at least try


  258. buzzsawmonkey
    259 | March 6, 2013 7:46 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Or touch their Korans.

    “Now, show me on this stuffed, plush Koran where the big, bad man touched yours…”


  259. heysoos
    260 | March 6, 2013 7:48 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    the only device left to the GOP is the law…I hate the thought of impeachment because I feel it demeans all Americans and this heretofor cool system we live under…
    Impeachment is not a practical option—but it should be pointed out that this is part of the law, and part of what you call “this heretofore cool system we live under.”
    It is a particular legal option for a particular problem. That it cannot be followed with any expectation of success because of partisanship is part of the problem.

    up thread I suggested the GOP toss around the idea, possibly even a direct threat…it’s a tool


  260. eaglesoars
    261 | March 6, 2013 7:50 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Congress has no actual enforcement mechanism against the executive branch.

    Yes they do. U.S. Marshalls. They just won’t use it. Salazar and Holder should have been frog marched to Levenworth.

    SCOTUS doesn’t have enforcement powers -- and that is a problem.


  261. buzzsawmonkey
    262 | March 6, 2013 7:52 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    SCOTUS doesn’t have enforcement powers — and that is a problem.

    Especially when the Chief Justice seems to be lacking a SCROTUS.


  262. eaglesoars
    263 | March 6, 2013 7:52 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    the GOP needs to get inside BO’s head…fish around and exploit his vanity…spread rumors, a head nod, a fake..whatever it takes but attack his weakness, create a vibe that irritates him into shit he wished he hadn’t…at least try

    do you have ANY idea how many people in Chicago think he’s on the downlow?


  263. buzzsawmonkey
    264 | March 6, 2013 7:54 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    do you have ANY idea how many people in Chicago think he’s on the downlow?

    What’s the population of Chicago?


  264. lobo91
    265 | March 6, 2013 7:56 pm

    @ eaglesoars:

    Yes they do. U.S. Marshalls. They just won’t use it. Salazar and Holder should have been frog marched to Levenworth.

    The Marshalls Service is part of DoJ. They’re executive branch. Congress has no authority to order them to do anything.

    The only law enforcement agency that works for Congress is the Capitol Police, and they have no jurisdiction outside of the Capitol complex.


  265. heysoos
    266 | March 6, 2013 7:57 pm

    I was in contempt of court once…defending myself against 4th rate IRS lawyers…spent two nights in jail and the fuckers wouldn’t even let me go home t shower…I went from lock up straight back to court..the feds can be bog time assholes


  266. eaglesoars
    267 | March 6, 2013 7:58 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    eaglesoars wrote:
    do you have ANY idea how many people in Chicago think he’s on the downlow?
    What’s the population of Chicago?

    no clue

    guess 2-3 million?


  267. buzzsawmonkey
    268 | March 6, 2013 7:58 pm

    @ eaglesoars:
    @ lobo91:

    The Founders did not contemplate the possibility of a rogue President.


  268. eaglesoars
    269 | March 6, 2013 7:59 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    Congress has no authority to order them to do anything.

    I think that is incorrect.

    Let me check


  269. lobo91
    270 | March 6, 2013 8:00 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    @ lobo91:
    The Founders did not contemplate the possibility of a rogue President.

    They assumed that the people would be engaged enough that they’d only elect good people as their leaders.

    Fooled them…


  270. eaglesoars
    271 | March 6, 2013 8:03 pm

    eaglesoars wrote:

    lobo91 wrote:
    Congress has no authority to order them to do anything.
    I think that is incorrect.
    Let me check

    lobo I will check but right now Molly is having an incident -- gotta go


  271. darkwords
    272 | March 6, 2013 8:41 pm

    @ heysoos:
    Two Party Evil Money Cult. TPEMC


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