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Saturday Lecture Series: Out of The Swamp

by coldwarrior ( 65 Comments › )
Filed under Academia, Evolution, Open thread, saturday lecture series, Science at July 6th, 2013 - 8:00 am

Good Morning all! Researches at CalTech went back in their geologic time machine and came up with a model of what was swimming around in the swamps before oxygen. But really, did they have to go all the way to Sud Afrika? Proably not, they could have found some anaerobic slime in Culver City. But hey, gotta spend that grant money!

 

Here is the article:

Caltech researchers find evidence of an early manganese-oxidizing photosystem

For most terrestrial life on Earth, oxygen is necessary for survival. But the planet’s atmosphere did not always contain this life-sustaining substance, and one of science’s greatest mysteries is how and when oxygenic photosynthesis—the process responsible for producing oxygen on Earth through the splitting of water molecules—first began. Now, a team led by geobiologists at the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) has found evidence of a precursor photosystem involving manganese that predates cyanobacteria, the first group of organisms to release oxygen into the environment via photosynthesis.

The findings, outlined in the June 24 early edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), strongly support the idea that manganese oxidation—which, despite the name, is a chemical reaction that does not have to involve oxygen—provided an evolutionary stepping-stone for the development of water-oxidizing photosynthesis in cyanobacteria.

“Water-oxidizing or water-splitting photosynthesis was invented by cyanobacteria approximately 2.4 billion years ago and then borrowed by other groups of organisms thereafter,” explains Woodward Fischer, assistant professor of geobiology at Caltech and a coauthor of the study. “Algae borrowed this photosynthetic system from cyanobacteria, and plants are just a group of algae that took photosynthesis on land, so we think with this finding we’re looking at the inception of the molecular machinery that would give rise to oxygen.”

Photosynthesis is the process by which energy from the sun is used by plants and other organisms to split water and carbon dioxide molecules to make carbohydrates and oxygen. Manganese is required for water splitting to work, so when scientists began to wonder what evolutionary steps may have led up to an oxygenated atmosphere on Earth, they started to look for evidence of manganese-oxidizing photosynthesis prior to cyanobacteria. Since oxidation simply involves the transfer of electrons to increase the charge on an atom—and this can be accomplished using light or O2—it could have occurred before the rise of oxygen on this planet.

“Manganese plays an essential role in modern biological water splitting as a necessary catalyst in the process, so manganese-oxidizing photosynthesis makes sense as a potential transitional photosystem,” says Jena Johnson, a graduate student in Fischer’s laboratory at Caltech and lead author of the study.

To test the hypothesis that manganese-based photosynthesis occurred prior to the evolution of oxygenic cyanobacteria, the researchers examined drill cores (newly obtained by the Agouron Institute) from 2.415 billion-year-old South African marine sedimentary rocks with large deposits of manganese.

Manganese is soluble in seawater. Indeed, if there are no strong oxidants around to accept electrons from the manganese, it will remain aqueous, Fischer explains, but the second it is oxidized, or loses electrons, manganese precipitates, forming a solid that can become concentrated within seafloor sediments.

“Just the observation of these large enrichments—16 percent manganese in some samples—provided a strong implication that the manganese had been oxidized, but this required confirmation,” he says.

To prove that the manganese was originally part of the South African rock and not deposited there later by hydrothermal fluids or some other phenomena, Johnson and colleagues developed and employed techniques that allowed the team to assess the abundance and oxidation state of manganese-bearing minerals at a very tiny scale of 2 microns.

“And it’s warranted—these rocks are complicated at a micron scale!” Fischer says. “And yet, the rocks occupy hundreds of meters of stratigraphy across hundreds of square kilometers of ocean basin, so you need to be able to work between many scales—very detailed ones, but also across the whole deposit to understand the ancient environmental processes at work.”

Using these multiscale approaches, Johnson and colleagues demonstrated that the manganese was original to the rocks and first deposited in sediments as manganese oxides, and that manganese oxidation occurred over a broad swath of the ancient marine basin during the entire timescale captured by the drill cores.

“It’s really amazing to be able to use X-ray techniques to look back into the rock record and use the chemical observations on the microscale to shed light on some of the fundamental processes and mechanisms that occurred billions of years ago,” says Samuel Webb, coauthor on the paper and beam line scientist at the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory at Stanford University, where many of the study’s experiments took place. “Questions regarding the evolution of the photosynthetic pathway and the subsequent rise of oxygen in the atmosphere are critical for understanding not only the history of our own planet, but also the basics of how biology has perfected the process of photosynthesis.”

Once the team confirmed that the manganese had been deposited as an oxide phase when the rock was first forming, they checked to see if these manganese oxides were actually formed before water-splitting photosynthesis or if they formed after as a result of reactions with oxygen. They used two different techniques to check whether oxygen was present. It was not—proving that water-splitting photosynthesis had not yet evolved at that point in time. The manganese in the deposits had indeed been oxidized and deposited before the appearance of water-splitting cyanobacteria. This implies, the researchers say, that manganese-oxidizing photosynthesis was a stepping-stone for oxygen-producing, water-splitting photosynthesis.

“I think that there will be a number of additional experiments that people will now attempt to try and reverse engineer a manganese photosynthetic photosystem or cell,” Fischer says. “Once you know that this happened, it all of a sudden gives you reason to take more seriously an experimental program aimed at asking, ‘Can we make a photosystem that’s able to oxidize manganese but doesn’t then go on to split water? How does it behave, and what is its chemistry?’ Even though we know what modern water splitting is and what it looks like, we still don’t know exactly how it works. There is still a major discovery to be made to find out exactly how the catalysis works, and now knowing where this machinery comes from may open new perspectives into its function—an understanding that could help target technologies for energy production from artificial photosynthesis. ”

Next up in Fischer’s lab, Johnson plans to work with others to try and mutate a cyanobacteria to “go backwards” and perform manganese-oxidizing photosynthesis. The team also plans to investigate a set of rocks from western Australia that are similar in age to the samples used in the current study and may also contain beds of manganese. If their current study results are truly an indication of manganese-oxidizing photosynthesis, they say, there should be evidence of the same processes in other parts of the world.

“Oxygen is the backdrop on which this story is playing out on, but really, this is a tale of the evolution of this very intense metabolism that happened once—an evolutionary singularity that transformed the planet,” Fischer says. “We’ve provided insight into how the evolution of one of these remarkable molecular machines led up to the oxidation of our planet’s atmosphere, and now we’re going to follow up on all angles of our findings.”

Funding for the research outlined in the PNAS paper, titled “Manganese-oxidizing photosynthesis before the rise of cyanobacteria,” was provided by the Agouron Institute, NASA’s Exobiology Branch, the David and Lucile Packard Foundation, and the National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellowship program. Joseph Kirschvink, Nico and Marilyn Van Wingen Professor of Geobiology at Caltech, also contributed to the study along with Katherine Thomas and Shuhei Ono from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

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65 Responses to “Saturday Lecture Series: Out of The Swamp”
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  1. 1 | July 6, 2013 8:34 am

    I love the smell of geology in the morning. Smells like science…


  2. 2 | July 6, 2013 9:36 am

    Dead as the proverbial doornail…


  3. coldwarrior
    3 | July 6, 2013 9:55 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    Dead as the proverbial doornail…

    /lurking/

    cooking pancakes and bacon for the girls. yum!


  4. coldwarrior
    4 | July 6, 2013 10:20 am

    yeah…not for long.

    3. United States

    The U.S., home to some of the world’s top medical specialists, played host to as many as 800,000 international patients seeking help with the most difficult health conditions, according to Patients Beyond Borders. Despite its high prices, the country’s world-class care for the hardest-to-treat cases made the U.S. the third-most visited country for medical tourists last year.

    innovation, new meds, and new surgical techniques will cease under obamacare.


  5. RIX
    5 | July 6, 2013 10:36 am

    innovation, new meds, and new surgical techniques will cease under obamacare.
    @ coldwarrior:

    THat’s exactly right. We will also have a three tiered system.
    One tier will have fabulous medical delivery for taxpayer
    funded elites like Obama.
    A second tier will be concierge medicine, for people
    that can afford to put a PC on retainer & pay out of
    pocket.
    The third tier will be for the masses, with rationing,
    death panels, long waits & reduced quality.


  6. coldwarrior
    6 | July 6, 2013 10:45 am

    @ RIX:

    i cant wait to stick it to the idiotsd who voted for this.

    ‘no, you dont get a new hip, you are too old and useless to society. here is your wheelchair and oxy prescription. now go home, get a drug habit, and die already. have your family bring back the wheelchair or they will be fined. have a nice day, commie’

    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


  7. 7 | July 6, 2013 10:49 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Mike C. wrote:
    Dead as the proverbial doornail…
    /lurking/
    cooking pancakes and bacon for the girls. yum!

    Have to make stuff today to take to a dinner tomorrow. The wife already did another batch of applesauce (from Lodi apples, THE applesauce apple), but she still has baked beans to do, and I need to whip up a batch of coleslaw (it needs to sit in the fridge overnight, IMHO.) And I have to cook Jeagerschnitzle for dinner this evening. The dishwasher is definitely going to get a workout today…


  8. coldwarrior
    8 | July 6, 2013 10:54 am

    @ Mike C.:

    i like days where we do two or three loads of dishes. this means everyone ate well and is satisfied.


  9. RIX
    9 | July 6, 2013 11:00 am

    @ coldwarrior:
    Yup, all of the ObamaCare supporters now
    seem shocked to discover that there are fines &
    mandates.
    The Committees will decide who is worthy of
    medical care & who isn’t.
    Shouldn’t the red flag have been when Pelosi
    said, “We have to pass it so that you can find
    out what’s in it.”


  10. coldwarrior
    10 | July 6, 2013 11:03 am

    muslim scum

    ISLAMIC militants have attacked a boarding school in northeast Nigeria, killing 29 students and one teacher, some of the pupils being burned alive.

    Parents screamed in anguish as they tried to identify charred bodies and gunshot victims.

    Farmer Malam Abdullahi found the bodies of two of his sons, a 10-year-old shot in the back as he apparently tried to run away, and a 12-year-old shot in the chest.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/world-news/kids-burned-alive-in-school-attack-in-nigeria/story-fndir2ev-1226675344157#ixzz2YHIUZxKg


  11. coldwarrior
    11 | July 6, 2013 11:04 am

    RIX wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Yup, all of the ObamaCare supporters now
    seem shocked to discover that there are fines &
    mandates.
    The Committees will decide who is worthy of
    medical care & who isn’t.
    Shouldn’t the red flag have been when Pelosi
    said, “We have to pass it so that you can find
    out what’s in it.”

    this is gonna be fun!


  12. RIX
    12 | July 6, 2013 11:08 am

    Michael Muskal ✔ @latimesmuskal

    Police chief killed with rifle lost in ATF gun-tracking program http://lat.ms/1aKBgTo

    Mexican authorities say that over 211 have been
    killed with guns introduced through Fast & Furious.
    Why does Holder still have his job?


  13. RIX
    13 | July 6, 2013 11:09 am

    @ coldwarrior:
    Sarah Palin talking about Death Panels was just crazy!/


  14. coldwarrior
    14 | July 6, 2013 11:09 am

    LOVE to travel but want to avoid tourist traps or the hipster scene?

    A new tool can help you do just that. User review site Yelp has launched its “Worldmap” which shows heatmaps of 14 major cities based on keyword frequency within the reviews on its site.

    Essentially, it pulls in mentions of certain keywords such as “hipster” so you can find the spots you want to head to -- and those you would rather avoid.

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advisor/secret-to-avoiding-tourist-traps-hipsters/story-e6frfqfr-1226674870142#ixzz2YHJxgwL3


  15. coldwarrior
    15 | July 6, 2013 11:15 am

    RIX wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Sarah Palin talking about Death Panels was just crazy!/

    i knew she was talking the truth from day one. it is obvious to anyone in the bizz or anyone who understands economics


  16. RIX
    16 | July 6, 2013 11:25 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Sarah Palin talking about Death Panels was just crazy!/

    i knew she was talking the truth from day one. it is obvious to anyone in the bizz or anyone who understands economics

    I did too & so did a lot of her detractors.
    She committed truth, so she had to be
    vilified & made to look like a nut.


  17. coldwarrior
    17 | July 6, 2013 11:26 am

    RIX wrote:

    She committed truth, so she had to be
    vilified & made to look like a nut.

    bingo.

    it will be fun tho, hitting all of these idiots with the giant cluebat.


  18. RIX
    18 | July 6, 2013 11:31 am

    bingo.

    it will be fun tho, hitting all of these idiots with the giant cluebat.
    @ coldwarrior:

    They brought it on themselves, but everyone else will
    have to suffer with them.


  19. Da_Beerfreak
    19 | July 6, 2013 11:35 am

    In the Postmodern PC World there is no greater crime against the Collective than telling the Truth.


  20. coldwarrior
    20 | July 6, 2013 11:36 am

    RIX wrote:

    bingo.
    it will be fun tho, hitting all of these idiots with the giant cluebat.
    @ coldwarrior:

    They brought it on themselves, but everyone else will
    have to suffer with them.

    too bad.

    sometimes collective punishment is a good thing.


  21. 21 | July 6, 2013 11:36 am

    RIX wrote:

    They brought it on themselves, but everyone else will
    have to suffer with them.

    The whole purpose of ObamaCare is to make tha vast majority of us suffer so much that we’ll accept single-payer to get away from ObamaCare. It is, and always has been, designed to fail at delivering what it was ostensibly passed to produce: Affordable Health Care.


  22. RIX
    22 | July 6, 2013 11:37 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    In the Postmodern PC World there is no greater crime against the Collective than telling the Truth.

    Truth has been mugged. Their is your truth, my truth,
    virtual truth & somewhere comes THE truth.
    It’s jus another option.


  23. coldwarrior
    23 | July 6, 2013 11:38 am

    Da_Beerfreak wrote:

    In the Postmodern PC World there is no greater crime against the Collective than telling the Truth.

    indeed


  24. Da_Beerfreak
    24 | July 6, 2013 11:39 am

    All Heretics must be destroyed before they can harm the Collective.


  25. RIX
    25 | July 6, 2013 11:41 am

    The whole purpose of ObamaCare is to make tha vast majority of us suffer so much that we’ll accept single-payer to get away from ObamaCare. It is, and always has been, designed to fail at delivering what it was ostensibly passed to produce: Affordable Health Care. -- @ Iron Fist:

    That’s a fact. From the jump the plan has always been to
    segue to single payer.
    Mass misery with rationing, but to Obama “Social Justice>”
    But you know, not for him.


  26. Bumr50
  27. 27 | July 6, 2013 11:47 am

    RIX wrote:

    But you know, not for him.

    Not for him or for anyone with the right political connections. In the Old Soviet Union, people got what they got in defference to their usefulness to the Party. The Democrats think that is the way things should work. They have always wanted to turn America into a neo-0Stalinist hell. I do blame the Republicans for not fighting against them hard enough. They act like politics is beanbag.


  28. 28 | July 6, 2013 11:49 am

    @ Bumr50:

    The Leftist coming out in him. I am appalled about his stance against concealed carry.


  29. 29 | July 6, 2013 11:57 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    And I will reiterate: the prosecution did not present one witness that indicated that Zimmerman acted with “depraved indifference to human life”. Not one. Horowitz can find that Zimmerman isn’t a credible witness if he likes, but that doesn’t add up to second degree murder. Horowitz’s stance is essentially an anti-self-defense stance. You have to let the thugs beat the shit out of you, and you have to hope they don’t beat you to death. Because if they do the police won’t spend too much effort tracking them donw for it.


  30. RIX
    30 | July 6, 2013 12:03 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    You’ve got it. In the Old Soviet Union about 4% were
    Party Members. Communism was for the other 96%.
    Obama has that mentality.


  31. coldwarrior
    31 | July 6, 2013 12:11 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    this is more about killing the castle doctrine/stand your ground laws than about race.

    the left and many in govt want these laws strangled.


  32. darkwords
    32 | July 6, 2013 12:12 pm

    @ 26 Bumr50: WEll i think he killed him. I also think Trayvon was a thug as evidenced by the astroturfed protests that swelled up.


  33. darkwords
    33 | July 6, 2013 12:18 pm

    @ 31 coldwarrior: It’s true that all the lefty talks about gun control have the goal in mind of no guns in the country at all. The only way to prevent single isolated incidences of horrific killings via guns is to have the gun not there. And since it was an illegal gun, the supply needs to dry up. No concern for all the well intentioned responsible people with guns, assume they are all guilty.

    Now why don’t we apply that same logic to gay marriage. One bad gay marriage damns them all. Or to voter fraud, one bad vote damns them all. The NRA needs to make commercials like that.

    We let the left steal the doormat to freedoms and don’t call them out or punish them. They come back emboldened to steal the silverware. BO BO MO


  34. 34 | July 6, 2013 12:20 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    Yep self-defense is anathema to the Left’s world view. They hope to use this case to undermine the right to self-defense. I am disappointed in Horowitz, but he clearly doesn’t behave a clue when it comes to self-defense. I don’t carry a gun and any more not even a knife because I know how my martial arts training would be used against me if I had to defend myself. This does not make the bad guys more secure. Self-defense means you stop te threat. Dead is stopped. Zimmerman fired one shot. Martin stopped attacking, and Zimmerman stopped shooting. That is perfectly acceptable. I don’t know what the jury will find though. Next week is the defense. Horowitz made his snap judgement without hearing anything from the defense.


  35. coldwarrior
    35 | July 6, 2013 12:21 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    We let the left steal the doormat to freedoms and don’t call them out or punish them. They come back emboldened to steal the silverware. BO BO MO

    the current ‘conservative’ right has no spine, no guts for a fight.


  36. darkwords
    36 | July 6, 2013 12:22 pm

    @ 14 coldwarrior: China is a good place to travel as long as you are in a guided group. I would travel to Japan and Australia. Europe is ok, but I dislike seeing the islamization going on there.


  37. coldwarrior
    37 | July 6, 2013 12:23 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    I am disappointed in Horowitz, but he clearly doesn’t behave a clue when it comes to self-defense.

    what do you expect? has he ever been out of the I-95 corridor?


  38. darkwords
    38 | July 6, 2013 12:24 pm

    @ 34 Iron Fist: If someone attacked me and they turned and ran I would still shoot them. I assume they would be coming back better equipped once they felt safe.


  39. darkwords
    39 | July 6, 2013 12:25 pm

    @ darkwords: Monsters in Hollywood ALWAYS come back 2 or 3 times after you kill them. You have to shoot zombies twice to make sure they are really dead.


  40. 40 | July 6, 2013 12:35 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    Monsters in Hollywood ALWAYS come back 2 or 3 times after you kill them. You have to shoot zombies twice to make sure they are really dead.

    Or use nuclear weapons to wipe them out for real! :)


  41. darkwords
    41 | July 6, 2013 12:36 pm

    @ Bumr50:

    That is the old left training from the ivory tower by horowitz there. I think he has some good points. he then though points to how conservatives are jumping to conclusions and that is bad. Then he jumps to his own opinions.

    Given that the young man was unarmed and that he inflicted very superficial injuries on his adversary during their scuffle, Zimmerman’s claim that he was in fear for his life has to be taken with a grain of salt, to say the least.

    The Stand Your Ground Law should be rewritten to apply only to home invasions since then it is clear that the intruder is the aggressor and the response is self-defense. Second, Neighborhood Watch guards should not be permitted to conceal and carry.

    Horowitz can’t tell the level of fear in the middle of the night when being jumped and pummeled. He tries to deconstruct that event and show it in the light of day. Which doesn’t exist.

    When you are being assaulted you are just being assaulted. A lot of legal philosophical crap doesn’t go through your mind. You react based on your life experience.

    This neighborhood has to have a block watch because the city and the police were doing their jobs on the cheap. The neighbors didn’t feel safe in their own homes. I think they should only have gone out in pairs on the blockwatch and been better trained. It’s ok to have a gun attitude from carrying a gun. That is why the police wear a uniform. Implied intent towards bullies.


  42. coldwarrior
    42 | July 6, 2013 12:37 pm

    Macker wrote:

    darkwords wrote:
    Monsters in Hollywood ALWAYS come back 2 or 3 times after you kill them. You have to shoot zombies twice to make sure they are really dead.
    Or use nuclear weapons to wipe them out for real!

    great, just what we need, radioactive zombies.

    :roll:

    lol


  43. darkwords
    43 | July 6, 2013 12:38 pm

    If Zimmerman goes free you can’t be caught in the wrong end of town. There are tons of black racists out there not being held accountable for their ill driven thoughts.


  44. coldwarrior
    44 | July 6, 2013 12:38 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    Horowitz can’t tell the level of fear in the middle of the night when being jumped and pummeled. He tries to deconstruct that event and show it in the light of day. Which doesn’t exist.

    because he grew up and lives in a cocoon. he has zero frame of reference


  45. darkwords
    45 | July 6, 2013 12:40 pm

    I’ve never used one but Zimmerman might have been better off with one of these yellowjacket stun phones.


  46. coldwarrior
    46 | July 6, 2013 12:42 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    If Zimmerman goes free you can’t be caught in the wrong end of town. There are tons of black racists out there not being held accountable for their ill driven thoughts.

    fine by me. they can stay over there and i will stay over here. they can enforce their own apartheid, i dont care. there is nothing of value in the hood. all the good jazz clubs and restaurants are gone, there are no businesses that krackaz would want to go to.

    the hood rats can have apartheid. self imposed exile in the depressing world that they created.


  47. 47 | July 6, 2013 12:44 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Checka U E-mail!


  48. darkwords
    48 | July 6, 2013 12:46 pm

    @ 44 coldwarrior: I think people not used to it will always panic when involved in their first fight. People that lose fights avoid those events. People that win fights gain some confidence and wisdom. Some of them become bullies other become protectors.

    But these days this type of violence needs to be worked out on a sporting field. No room for it in a neighborhood with moms and kids.

    There were mistakes by both Trayvon and George here. Why did this fight even occur? I adhere to the idea that most 18-25 year old boys are dumb until they carry a responsibility for someone else. I certainly was.


  49. coldwarrior
    49 | July 6, 2013 12:48 pm

    new thread


  50. coldwarrior
    50 | July 6, 2013 12:49 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    new thread

    ooops!!!!!

    i am moving the new thread to tomorrow


  51. 51 | July 6, 2013 12:50 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    That’s right. He doesn’t really have a clue about self-defense. When you are on your back on the ground you Are in trouble. I’d have killed Trayvon myself if I had been in Zimmerman’s position. When someone is beating your head against the pavement they intend to do you grave bodily harm.


  52. coldwarrior
    52 | July 6, 2013 12:52 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    i’ll give horowitz a pass here, he is ignorant of the reality ‘on the street’.

    it isnt his fault, he just doesnt know because he no frame of reference. maybe it would have been best for him to just zipit on this one.


  53. darkwords
    53 | July 6, 2013 12:52 pm

    @ 51 Iron Fist: Head against concrete. If Trayvon had been successful no one would have cared. It would have been a page three story no one recalls. forgotten for all time.


  54. coldwarrior
    54 | July 6, 2013 12:54 pm

    ‘nuther gnu thred is up.


  55. 55 | July 6, 2013 12:56 pm

    @ darkwords:
    The thin the prosecution had to prove was a “depraved indifference to human life”. I don’t see that they raise a credible accusation of that. They just accuse Zimmerman of being a racist and hope that ad homonym works with the jury. It may. I don’t have a lot of faith in juries.


  56. RIX
    56 | July 6, 2013 12:58 pm

    @ darkwords:
    Horowitz sounds like somebody who has not been following
    the trial.
    You have a malicious prosecution whose own witnesses
    bolster the defense.
    As far as Zimmerman’s contradictions, they were few
    and don’t seem material.


  57. coldwarrior
    57 | July 6, 2013 12:58 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    They just accuse Zimmerman of being a racist and hope that ad homonym works with the jury.

    the HR-ization of america will be tested. gotta protect that racial hire! diversity uber alles!


  58. AZfederalist
    58 | July 6, 2013 1:05 pm

    Bumr50 wrote:

    DAVID HOROWITZ: CONSERVATIVES JUMPED THE GUN ON ZIMMERMAN INNOCENCE

    ht — Breitbart

    One of those times where Horowitz is horribly wrong. On the idea neighborhood watch should not carry concealed. On the idea that stand your ground should apply only in the home. On the idea that stand your ground was even applicable in this case.


  59. 59 | July 6, 2013 1:07 pm

    @ RIX:
    Zimmerman doesn’t have a photographic memory. Almost no one does. There are always little inconsistencies in someone’s story like this. I don’t see that Zimmerman has any more than usual. And it comes back to the law. Depraved indifference to life is like letting the lions out of their cage at the zoo. No one has raise a credible accusation that Zimmerman did anything that rises to that level. He fired one shot at extreme close range. That is actually commendable. Trained police officers often empty their. Guns in similar confrontations. You shoot to stop the threat. That is what Zimmerman did.


  60. coldwarrior
    60 | July 6, 2013 1:10 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    No one has raise a credible accusation that Zimmerman did anything that rises to that level. He fired one shot at extreme close range. That is actually commendable.

    THAT is amazing.


  61. RIX
    61 | July 6, 2013 1:11 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    Zimmermans account of things line up well with
    the facts as they are known.


  62. RIX
    62 | July 6, 2013 1:13 pm

    @ AZfederalist:
    It appears that Zimmerman was within the law as written,
    not the way that Horowitz would like it written.


  63. RIX
    63 | July 6, 2013 1:14 pm

    Off for a bike ride. See ya.


  64. 64 | July 6, 2013 1:18 pm

    @ AZfederalist:
    I had that explained to me yesterday. Stand your ground laws are about a victim’s duty to retreat. Under stand your ground you don’t have a duty to retreat. It doesn’t apply to Zimmerman because Zimmerman was flat on his back against the ground. He couldn’t retreat.


  65. Bumr50
    65 | July 6, 2013 1:49 pm

    @ darkwords:

    Zimmerman is being charged with Murder 2.

    Horowitz is clearly ignoring that fact.


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