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The bewildered presidency

by Speranza ( 167 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Egypt, Iran, Israel, Muslim Brotherhood, Palestinians at August 20th, 2013 - 7:00 am

Obama is starting to see that his vaunted “charm” and”persuasiveness” does not really  work on totalitarians who can see right through him.

by Jonathan S. Tobin

There’s some soul searching going on in the Obama administration as it ponders how they got sidelined in Egypt as the situation there got out of control in a spiral of violence. As the New York Times details in a post-mortem of U.S. policy, the administration went all out to persuade the military that had overthrown the Muslim Brotherhood to compromise and allow the Islamists to rejoin the government. Among other efforts to cajole them or to threaten aid cutoffs, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel made 17 often-lengthy phone calls to Egyptian General Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi trying to get him to make nice with the Brotherhood. They even sent two Republican senators—John McCain and Lindsey Graham—to continue the pressure in person in Cairo. And they’re baffled as to why they were ignored as Sisi ordered police and troops to clear out the Brotherhood’s armed camps in Cairo this week.

The easy answer to their questions is that unlike Sisi and the military, President Obama and his foreign policy-team continue to fail to understand that the conflict in Egypt is a zero-sum game. The choice there is between the military and the Brotherhood and the transformation of a key Arab country into an Islamist stronghold. This failure to comprehend the nature of the conflict has led inevitably to paralysis. This spectacle of American impotence is worrisome no matter what you think the U.S. should do about Egypt. But it’s not unrelated to the administration’s other foreign-policy failures that are piling up in the Middle East. Having failed to act decisively to try to avoid a far bigger bloodbath in Syria, and content to waste years on futile diplomacy on the Iranian nuclear threat while devoting disproportionate effort on reviving Israeli-Palestinian talks that have little chance to succeed, it’s obvious that Egypt isn’t the only venue where Obama has demonstrated his cluelessness. [......]

In Egypt, Obama’s main problem is his lack of understanding of the threat that the Muslim Brotherhood poses to both the non-Islamist majority in that country as well as to the region. Having bought into the myth that the Brotherhood’s rise in the aftermath of the fall of the Mubarak regime was an expression of democratic sentiment, it refused to see that if it was allowed to take power it would quickly move to destroy any opposition. The U.S. pressured the military to let Mohamed Morsi take office and then continued to urge them to stand aside as he proceeded to demonstrate that the Brotherhood had little interest in democracy. Even as 14 million people took to the streets to demand that Morsi step down, the president continued to preach restraint and then stood by in puzzlement when the military realized that this was probably their last chance to save their country. Even now, the administration seems stuck in the same mythical “Arab Spring” mindset that is predicated on the idea that a totalitarian movement like the Brotherhood is compatible with liberal democracy. Since they don’t understand what led to the events of the last week, how can we expect the Obama team to put forward a coherent position on what happened and what may unfold in the days to come?

[........]

Obama came into office thinking that he could charm the Iranians into giving up their nuclear ambitions and that American pressure on Israel could magically create peace with the Palestinians. If problems arose elsewhere in the Middle East, he thought they would be easily resolved with bad guys like Bashar Assad conveniently leaving the stage because President Obama said he “must go.” So as we now peruse the Middle East, we see an Iran that thinks it can go on fooling the West with a diplomatic process intended to stall talks until they can build a nuke while the United States invests precious time and energy on muscling Israel into making concessions to a Palestinian Authority that has no interest in ever signing a peace agreement. And Bashar Assad, with the help of his Iranian and Hezbollah allies, remains in power while winning a civil war that Obama could have spiked two years ago with a timely push.

While critics from both the left and right assail Obama’s indecision that–as I noted on Friday–protects neither American interests nor values in Egypt, this is yet another symptom of an administration that remains besotted with the same preconceptions that it brought to Washington in 2009. While he laments his lack of good choices and the fact that America’s ability to influence events is limited, it is the president’s refusal to face facts about the Brotherhood and some of his other blind spots that is most to blame for the fact that he has left American foreign policy hanging in the wind at a decisive moment in history.

Read the rest - Obama on Egypt; The clueless presidency

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167 Responses to “The bewildered presidency”
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  1. 1 | August 20, 2013 7:47 am

    Obama really feels that he is The Annointed One, the Sun King, and a human god incarnate. He really believes his own bullshit, as he famously said. So it confuses him when people as diverse as Vlad Putin and the Mullahs of Iran don’t just fall all over themselves scrambling to do his bidding. After all, he has had his way smoothed for him from the tony elite private school he went to to Columbia and Harvard. He has never had to put forth much effort to gain the things that he wants. Even his presidential opponents did not make much effort to beat him. Why would Russia be any different? He is like a bear who has dined well on garbage for years. He doesn’t really know any better than to behave like he does. He should have never been President, but we put up some of the weakest compitition ever for the office, and he was able to make it through.


  2. MikeA
    2 | August 20, 2013 8:01 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I look at him like the small town guy who was top of his class ( of 15 ) and then goes to university and finds he is the butt of everyones jokes and is way out of his depth.

    It is so true he thinks he can just show up and people will listen to him. Humilty is something he never learned. He will learn it. Either in this life or when he stands before the Almighty…


  3. rain of lead
    3 | August 20, 2013 8:19 am

    morning ya’ll


  4. 4 | August 20, 2013 8:29 am

    @ MikeA:

    I don’t think he was even top of his class at Punohoe. HE was simply always puffed about how “special” he was, and he’s not particularly special. He thinks his race makes him special, but it really doesn’t. There are lots of mixed-race people out there that don[t have the racial hang-ups that Obama has. He is very much like any other cult leader. The difference between someone like David Koresh and Obama is really a matter of scale. Obama has been able to inflict his cult on the entire country. I just hope that we can hold the House and maybe take the Senate next year. That is the only chance we have of stopping Obama. He intends to destroy this country, and he has made tremendous strides in doing just that. He is borrowing and blowing over a trillion dollars a year, mostly skimmed into various Democrat donors’ pockets. His looting of the treasury is on a scale nver beofre seen, and the Republicans are generally letting him get away with it. In the looming fight over increasing the debt ceiling, I’d be pushing the line that Obama has already plundered vast wealth from the United States into the coffers of his cronies. There are too many examples of this to count. Did we really need to pay someone $2.6 million to go to China and teach hookers how to drink? Surely the Chinese hookers could have figured this out on their own. Solyndra and all of the other green scams also springs immediately to mind.


  5. 5 | August 20, 2013 8:31 am

    @ rain of lead:

    Morning. How’s Momcat today?


  6. Speranza
    6 | August 20, 2013 8:39 am

    Hagel has really distinguished himself at the Pentagon. /


  7. MikeA
    7 | August 20, 2013 8:40 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    To be honest, most of the Repubs are no different than the Dems on most things. But don’t worry, this can’t last forever. Eventually we will hit the wall. The 10 year T-bills have been rising in the last few weeks. We are living in interesting times.


  8. rain of lead
    8 | August 20, 2013 8:42 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    she be still in bed asleep
    I do the early morning thing with getting the girl up and off to school

    momcat tends to sleep a lot these days… like most cats


  9. rain of lead
    9 | August 20, 2013 8:47 am

    @ MikeA:

    We are living in interesting times.

    that curse actually has three parts, each in increasing severity

    May you live in interesting times.
    May you attract the attention of the government.
    May you find what you’re looking for.

    part two scares the crap out of me


  10. 10 | August 20, 2013 8:47 am

    rain of lead wrote:

    like most cats

    :lol:


  11. theoutsider
    11 | August 20, 2013 8:47 am

    Maybe someday he’ll live up to Rumsfeld’s standards.///


  12. 12 | August 20, 2013 8:48 am

    @ Speranza:

    Hagel is distinguishing himself from every previous Sec Def. Most incompetant distinguishe a you from all the other semi-incompetant Sec Def’s we’ve had.


  13. 13 | August 20, 2013 8:49 am

    rain of lead wrote:

    momcat tends to sleep a lot these days… like most cats

    Hopefully it is a peaceful and restful sleep…


  14. 14 | August 20, 2013 8:50 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    Maybe someday he’ll live up to Rumsfeld’s standards.///

    Maybe one day you’ll wake up to what a fool you are and do the world a favor and put a plastic bag over your head.


  15. 15 | August 20, 2013 8:53 am

    @ theoutsider:

    Hey! So we’ve hit over a trillion dollar deficit for the year again. That’s four years in a row under Obama. That brings our total debt to slightly less than $17 trillion which is greater than 100% of our GDP. When is the debt too much? At what point would you say that we really have to quit borrowing?


  16. rain of lead
    16 | August 20, 2013 8:59 am

    @ theoutsider:

    and good to know that Zero is going to make the world love us again
    how’s that working out again?

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/08/good-grief-obama-regime-demands-egypt-release-muslim-brotherhood-and-morsi/


  17. 17 | August 20, 2013 9:02 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    You really have patience!

    :lol:


  18. theoutsider
    18 | August 20, 2013 9:07 am

    Rumsfeld was the worst Secretary of Defense ever! No body is going to deny that.


  19. rain of lead
    19 | August 20, 2013 9:12 am

    @ theoutsider:

    I’ll deny that you jackwagon


  20. 20 | August 20, 2013 9:14 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Obama really feels that he is The Annointed One, the Sun King, and a human god incarnate. He really believes his own bullshit, as he famously said. So it confuses him when people as diverse as Vlad Putin and the Mullahs of Iran don’t just fall all over themselves scrambling to do his bidding. After all, he has had his way smoothed for him from the tony elite private school he went to to Columbia and Harvard. He has never had to put forth much effort to gain the things that he wants. Even his presidential opponents did not make much effort to beat him. Why would Russia be any different? He is like a bear who has dined well on garbage for years. He doesn’t really know any better than to behave like he does. He should have never been President, but we put up some of the weakest compitition ever for the office, and he was able to make it through.

    I think this is the most accurate description of Obama I have seen


  21. 21 | August 20, 2013 9:16 am

    @ theoutsider:

    Robert McNamara will disagree.


  22. rain of lead
    22 | August 20, 2013 9:17 am

    @ theoutsider:

    how dumb is Chuck Hagel?
    this dumb

    Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel asks Indian man in audience at University of Nebraska if he’s a ‘member of the Taliban’

    Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel suffered a foot-in-mouth moment Thursday after cameras caught him asking an Indian member of an audience if he was a “member of the Taliban.”

    Hagel had just finished speaking at the University of Nebraska, his alma mater, when he began taking questions

    An Indian member of the audience approached the microphone, prompting Hagel to deliver an extremely inappropriate joke.

    “You’re not a member of the Taliban, are you?” Hagel is seen asking the audience member.

    A prolonged awkward silence follows the strange question, before the man identifies himself as Robin Gandhi, an assistant professor at the school.

    bwahahahahahaha


  23. 23 | August 20, 2013 9:17 am

    @ Rodan:

    It is like taking a chipping hammer to a block of granite. You just have to keep chipping away at it. It really is a fundamental querstion, though. At the current rate of spending we’ll be right at 130% GDP in debt as a nation. Greece, by way of comparison, was about 150% GDP. Our debt would be higher if we weren’t printing money at an ungodly rate. The truth is, when you are having to borrow the money with which to pay the interest on your debt, you’ve already spent yourself into bankruptcy. That is what they are really telling us when they say that we’ll go into default if we don’t raise the debt ceiling. No Republican has the balls to admit that, though. I think if we’d convey the real magnitude of the problem the American People would demand change. That doesn’t set well with the Establishment of either Party. Both Parties have grown government drastically over the last 15-20 years. We can only keep doing this for as long as we have creditors willing to loan us the money, though. That is our real debt ceiling. How long will people be willing to loan America money at effectively 0% interest? Nobody, not even our creditors, really knows the answer to that question, but everybody knows that this can’t go on forever.


  24. theoutsider
    24 | August 20, 2013 9:17 am

    Rumsfeld is responsible for the Iraq invasion and the Afghanistan quagmire. I don’t see how you could do any worse than that.


  25. huckfunn
    25 | August 20, 2013 9:18 am

    Three black teens accused of murding white baseball player just for fun.
    Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton outraged. (not really)


  26. MikeA
    26 | August 20, 2013 9:19 am

    @ Rodan:

    Check this out. Even the left is finding out that the Zero’s followers are cult-like in their devotion.

    Writer For Far-Left Rag Mother Jones Shocked To Find Obamabots Are Real…

    Do not dare to refute the Zero!!!!


  27. coldwarrior
    28 | August 20, 2013 9:22 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    Rumsfeld was the worst Secretary of Defense ever! No body is going to deny that.

    gee, i can think of two off the top of my head and i havent had my morning caffeine!


  28. 29 | August 20, 2013 9:22 am

    @ MikeA:

    It’s a cult and Obama is viewed as some diety.


  29. rain of lead
    30 | August 20, 2013 9:22 am

    @ theoutsider:

    gee I don’t know, why not ask President dronestrike how things are in those two countrys


  30. rain of lead
    31 | August 20, 2013 9:23 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    morning CW


  31. coldwarrior
    32 | August 20, 2013 9:23 am

    mcnamara comes to mind, then i get angry, so its best not to ponder him right now.


  32. theoutsider
    33 | August 20, 2013 9:23 am

    Good Point. I think Iraq will haunt us longer than Vietnam ever did.


  33. Speranza
    34 | August 20, 2013 9:24 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    Good Point. I think Iraq will haunt us longer than Vietnam ever did.

    Baloney. Vietnam was far more costly and traumatic.


  34. coldwarrior
    35 | August 20, 2013 9:24 am

    rain of lead wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    morning CW

    i ti s a FINE morning!
    mrs coldwarrior picks up her volvo xc90 today.

    (i guess that makes us look like responsible parents/adults! :lol: )


  35. coldwarrior
    36 | August 20, 2013 9:25 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    Good Point. I think Iraq will haunt us longer than Vietnam ever did.

    dunno…we will see.


  36. huckfunn
    37 | August 20, 2013 9:26 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    mcnamara comes to mind, then i get angry, so its best not to ponder him right now.

    You don’t have to go back that far. How about Clinton? Ineptitude, incompetence and dereliction of duty.


  37. 38 | August 20, 2013 9:26 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    Rumsfeld is responsible for the Iraq invasion and the Afghanistan quagmire.

    Kind of forgetting that whole 9-11 thing, aren’t you? That is why we went into Afghanistan in the first place, you do realize that, don’t you? And Afghanistan wasn’t a big problem under the Bush Administration. We had expelled the Taliban and closed the terrorist training camps there. That was the original mission, and we accomplished that in short order with few losses. It was your Teleprompter Jesus® who escallated Afghanistan, and changed the mission to be turning Afghanistan into a Jeffersonian Democracy. That has failed utterly. We’ve lost more people inAfghanistan than we did in Iraq. Really, you shouldn’t try to lecture us on things that happened in our living history. As for Iraq being the “worst debacle ever”, again, if you’d studied a little history you’d know that wasn’t the case. There was the little dustup that JFK got us involved in, Vietnam it was called, that was far, far worse than Iraq ever really was.


  38. Speranza
    39 | August 20, 2013 9:27 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    Rumsfeld was the worst Secretary of Defense ever! No body is going to deny that.

    Stop throwing rhetorical bombs without thinking. Robert McNamara was the very worst and did you ever hear of Truman’s guy Louis A. Johnson? Google him.


  39. coldwarrior
    40 | August 20, 2013 9:28 am

    huckfunn wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    mcnamara comes to mind, then i get angry, so its best not to ponder him right now.

    You don’t have to go back that far. How about Clinton? Ineptitude, incompetence and dereliction of duty.

    57000 dead americans under mcnamara, for no reason at all.


  40. rain of lead
    41 | August 20, 2013 9:29 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    hehe
    I think the outsider comes here just because he likes getting his ass beat


  41. Speranza
    42 | August 20, 2013 9:29 am

    Hagel also comes across as an alcoholic.


  42. Speranza
    43 | August 20, 2013 9:31 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    Rumsfeld is responsible for the Iraq invasion and the Afghanistan quagmire. I don’t see how you could do any worse than that.

    The Left loves the term “quagmire”.


  43. huckfunn
    44 | August 20, 2013 9:31 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    57000 dead americans under mcnamara, for no reason at all.

    True. But other than presiding over the decline of American global dominance, Clinton accomplished nothing. She abandoned American officers in the field and then lied to Congress about it.


  44. 45 | August 20, 2013 9:31 am

    theoutsider wrote:

    I think Iraq will haunt us longer than Vietnam ever did.

    Based on what? We lost a tenth of the soldiers in Iraq that we lost in Vietnam, and your favorite third world Dictator Saddam Hussein and his evil sons are out of power in Iraq. Tell me, please, why do you like Saddam Hussein so much? HE was a very evil man. Ignoring the risk of WMDs (which every intelligence organization on the face of the planet thought he had), he was paying a $50K bounty to suicide bombers in Israel. That is support for international terrorism. Why did you want that to continue?


  45. Speranza
    46 | August 20, 2013 9:36 am

    It was the post war nation building attempts in Iraq that were so effed up. The war itself was brilliantly waged.


  46. 47 | August 20, 2013 9:36 am

    @ theoutsider:

    Personally I wish Rumsfeld had pushed back against the Neo-Con nation builders with their stupid Islamic-Democracy garbage. But he serves at the pleasure of teh President and at the end of the day, it was Bush who thought Iraqis want Democracy.

    As for any long lasting legacy of Iraq, yes there is. Wilsonian Nation Building has been discredited with most of the Right. I will oppose any nation building exercise. I will only support military operations that aim to destroy the enemy and leave.


  47. 48 | August 20, 2013 9:36 am

    @ rain of lead:

    He’s a masochist, clearly. He doesn’t have any real coherent ideology, either, just fanatical support for the teleprompter Jesus®. A cult of personality isn’t really a political ideology. It is fascinating to watch the Lefties who derrided Bush for so many things rally in support of Obama for doing exactly the same thing. Things like the drone assassinations and spying on the American people. Obama has done so much more than Bush ever dreamed of in those areas. But Obama’s a god, and it is not for mere mortals to question him.


  48. 49 | August 20, 2013 9:37 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Is the Pro-Iranian Regime that ethnically cleansed Christians any better than Saddamn?


  49. 50 | August 20, 2013 9:40 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    But Obama’s a god, and it is not for mere mortals to question him.

    Yup, that is the line Charles is taking on Twitter in his war with the Greenwald Left.


  50. Prebanned
    51 | August 20, 2013 9:41 am

    One part of me thinks the Middle East would be much better off if Obama quit trying to comprehensively, fundamentally change it.

    On the other hand, anything that distracts Obama from comprehensively, fundamentally changing America is welcome.

    There is no upside to Obama.

    I just hope the idiot does not start WW3.


  51. 52 | August 20, 2013 9:41 am

    @ Speranza:

    McNamara was a disaster.


  52. rain of lead
    53 | August 20, 2013 9:42 am

    Egyptian media hail arrest of Muslim Brotherhood’s Badie

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23769992

    Commentators on Egyptian TV have welcomed the arrest of the Muslim Brotherhood’s general guide, Mohammed Badie.

    Presenters congratulated viewers on the development, calling it “joyful news”, and one expert argued that it had dealt a heavy blow to the Islamist group.

    Muslim Brotherhood supporters, however, remained defiant. ” We are all the general guide,” said one tweet.

    Viewers congratulated

    News of Mr Badie’s arrest broke in an urgent caption on state-owned Channel One. The network’s security correspondent congratulated Egyptians on the development, hailing security agencies’ efforts. An image of Mr Badie inside a police vehicle was shown.

    The news was also reported in urgent captions on pro-Muslim Brotherhood Ahrar 25 TV and private CBC TV.


  53. 54 | August 20, 2013 9:43 am

    @ Prebanned:

    Obama is a cult figure and nothing he does will make people hate him. I looked at the polls and his popularity is creeping back up. He has a hold on the American people.


  54. rain of lead
    55 | August 20, 2013 9:43 am

    later ya’ll
    work thang


  55. 56 | August 20, 2013 9:43 am

    @ Speranza:

    Exactly. The war was won in what, 6 weeks? It was then that we took on the task of turning Iraq into a Democracy, something that they fundamentally were not prepared to do. We’d have been far better off to put in a Junta of military leaders that were beholden to the United States, and then left a reaction force in country indefinately as a check on Iranian power. As for the latter, BUsh was doing that, but Obama, eager to snatch Defeat from the jaws of victory, pulled us out completely and allowed Iran to take a more prominent role in that nation. Strategically, the Iraq war was the right thing to do. It drove a wedge through the Syrian-Iranian Axis, and left us in good shape for the inevitible invasion of Iran. It was the Dems in Congress that blew that one, and now Iran will get atomic weapons. The very least that will do is complicate matters in the Middle East unbearably. I think it is likely that Iran will use her nuclear weapons against either Israel or the United States (or both). By blocking an invasion of Iran, the Democrats didn’t choose Peace. Rather they had the choice between conventional war now and nuclear war later. They chose nuclear war.


  56. rain of lead
    57 | August 20, 2013 9:46 am

    oops
    one more thing

    5 of the Most Hysterical Liberal Overreactions To Criticism of Obama

    When George Bush was in office, liberals regularly compared him to Hitler, speculated that he was behind 9/11, fantasized about murdering him and generally talked about him like he was the Son of Satan. This was called “speaking the truth to power.” Then Barack Obama came into office and ironically, dissent isn’t so patriotic anymore. Suddenly these same people became angry, humorless scolds who believe that the President of United States is beyond criticism. Of course, the truth is that they haven’t changed at all; they’re just hypocrites. If you want to see how hypocritical and oversensitive to criticism they can be, here are five great examples.


  57. coldwarrior
    58 | August 20, 2013 9:49 am

    @ rain of lead:

    dont question their patriotism!


  58. 59 | August 20, 2013 9:51 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    We’d have been far better off to put in a Junta of military leaders that were beholden to the United States

    That is what we should have done, but Bush wanted to build a democracy. I will forever hold against Bush the fact he lied to Americans about Muslim Democracy. I know you are a loyal Republican, but come on, Bush fucked up with Iraq. Let’s be honest about it.


  59. 60 | August 20, 2013 9:52 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Is the Pro-Iranian Regime that ethnically cleansed Christians any better than Saddamn?

    Absolutely. Saddam Hussein was sponsoring terrorism in Israel and the sanctions were collapsing. If we’d backed down they would have collapsed entirely, and Saddam would have been back in the business of build up his weapons stockpiles. Do you really think Hussein would have scrupled to work with al Qaeda? We know now that al Qaeda was already in Iraq. COuld we have done better in securing the peace? Certainly. We should have never allowed them to make Islam a constitutional imperative. But things are far better now than they would have been otherwise. When you condemn the Iraq War, you don’t really look at what the real alternatives were. Iraq isn’t North Korea. We couldn’t just wall Saddam, Usay, and Quesy off from the rest of the world. They have too much oil for that. Look at the way France was undercuttin gus for the “Oil For Food” program. They were delivering banned weapons already. If we’d backed down it would have been a matter of months before the sanctions were officially ended. They were already a joke. We could have handled the peace better, but we did win the War. Bush tried to be too nice to our defeated enemy. A lot of the reason for that, though, was political. The Democrats in Congress comitted treason to help al Qaeda in Iraq kill American soldiers, and we did nothing about it. Where do you think the support would have come from had we put a military dictatorship in place in Iraq?


  60. eaglesoars
    61 | August 20, 2013 9:52 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    He intends to destroy this country,

    I wonder if he thinks that the Arab world UNDERSTANDS he intends to destroy this country and that they SHOULD understand that his world view of the U.S. is the same as theirs -- so why the problems?

    What they understand is that he’s a shallow loser. Remember that summit where they started the meeting w/o him? They have more respect for Imelda Marcos


  61. 62 | August 20, 2013 9:54 am

    If the Right admitted Bush fucked up in Iraq, we would be better off. At the time I supported the war, but in retrospect I admit it was a mistake and only made Iran stronger. Bush screwed up here, let’s be honest about it and vow to never make the same mistake again.


  62. eaglesoars
    63 | August 20, 2013 9:55 am

    Rodan wrote:

    I will forever hold against Bush the fact he lied to Americans about Muslim Democracy.

    I don’t get the whole ‘lie’ meme. Certainly Bush was mistaken, but dishonest?

    I think ANYONE who thinks democracy can take hold in a culture that has never been able to build the necessary supporting institutions is naive, be the culture Muslim or aboriginal.


  63. Speranza
    64 | August 20, 2013 9:57 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    Our brave men were sent on missions such as building roads and schools and had to become in essence “social workers”, meanwhile thanks to the incompetent general Ricardo Sanchez (a Democrat by the way) our Rules of Engagement became preposterous.


  64. buzzsawmonkey
    65 | August 20, 2013 9:57 am

    I disagree with the author of the article. He seems to believe that Obama and his administration actually are acting according to their stated objectives, which is foolish.

    Obama has always wanted a nuclear Iran, for the purpose of using the empty promise of “protection” as a club to force Israel to cave to “Palestinian” demands. He has done everything he can to bring this about; that is why, with the Iranians on the cusp of achieving their nuclear goals, he has sent Kerry to initiate “peace talks.” It is his hope that Iran will announce a nuclear weapon while the talks are in progress, so that he can step in as the “mediator” to “bring peace to the region” by crippling Israel.

    Nor has Obama necessarily believed, as the author states, that “the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt was an expression of democratic sentiment.” Obama supports the Brotherhood; he sympathizes with it.

    Tobin still believes that Obama is a well-meaning but clueless and inept President. He is wrong.


  65. 66 | August 20, 2013 9:59 am

    Rodan wrote:

    I know you are a loyal Republican, but come on, Bush fucked up with Iraq. Let’s be honest about it.

    Again, what were the viable alternatives? We could and should have put a military dictatorship in place, but there is no way Bush would have been able to get any support for that from Congress. Even the Republicans would have abandoned him had he done that. I think we should have written the Iraqi Constitution the way we wrote the Japanese and German Constitutions at the end of WWII. There was nothing to stop us from tdoing that, and we could have put into place mechanisms for protecting religious minorities that way, but Iraq would have still ended up the way it did, because Obama would have still abandoned the project when he was elected. We still have troops in Germany, Japan, and South Korea, and nobody is calling them “quagmires”. We should still have troops in Iraq, as a check on Iran. Obama is 100% responsible for us not being there. When coupled with his fecklessness on the Iranian nuclear question, I think you can lay the blame for the next Middle Eastern war on his doorstep. It may not happen on his watch, but it will be his fault. It really is only a matter of time.


  66. buzzsawmonkey
    67 | August 20, 2013 9:59 am

    Rodan wrote:

    If the Right admitted Bush fucked up in Iraq, we would be better off. At the time I supported the war, but in retrospect I admit it was a mistake and only made Iran stronger. Bush screwed up here, let’s be honest about it and vow to never make the same mistake again.

    Had Bush done what I’d originally believed was his plan, and used our presence in Iraq and Afghanistan as pincers to force the toppling of the mullahs in Iran, he would have been a resounding success.

    But if that was his plan, he lost his nerve and pissed away that opportunity trying to placate the Leftist media at home.


  67. 68 | August 20, 2013 10:00 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Saddam Hussein was sponsoring terrorism in Israel

    So was Iran and Qatar.

    Do you really think Hussein would have scrupled to work with al Qaeda?

    They did not get along too well.

    Iraq isn’t North Korea. We couldn’t just wall Saddam, Usay, and Quesy off from the rest of the world.

    Iraq was surrounded by hostile powers and by the early 2000′s Iraq was weak. Iran was rising and Saddam was scared.

    We could have handled the peace better, but we did win the War.

    Yes we won militarily and that’s all we gained out of the war.

    A lot of the reason for that, though, was political.
    Nope, it was ideological. Bush was a Wilsonian Progressive and bought into the idea its our duty to spread Democracy. There is Nothing Conservative or LIbertarian in nation building. Bush was a man of the Left; a Tranzi Progressive and sadly many on the Right refuse to believe this.

    We are just going to have to disagree on this. But we can agree, that never again should America engage in wars to spread Democracy.


  68. 69 | August 20, 2013 10:03 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    You have to earn respect, and Obama has never done anything in his life that would earn him respect. He was given every advantage he has. He has never worked for anything in his life. On the international stage, he was given the Nobel Peace Prize simply because he was black. That wasn’t a symbol of respect, but one of dramatically lowered expectations. As President, he has projected weakness from the very start. There’s no way strong national leaders like Putin (or even Dinner Jacket) are going to treat him as an equal.


  69. buzzsawmonkey
    70 | August 20, 2013 10:03 am

    OT

    New Gun Grab: Chilling story on this morning’s NPR.

    This morning, NPR told about California’s program to take lawfully-acquired guns away from people who have become illegal owners due to a felony conviction, being subjected to a restraining order, or due to “mental illness”.

    The news item detailed the caravan of armed and armored agents who travel around making raids on people who do not necessarily know that the law no longer permits them to own guns. They have not been notified; there is no written notification, let alone any administrative or judicial proceeding—merely a surprise raid and seizure.

    You wondered why the Administration is pushing PTSD in a big way? This is why; that makes people “mentally unstable,” and provides an excuse for such confiscation. The news item mentioned that California is ramping up these raids—and that there’s a bill in Congress to provide money to urge other states to adopt this practice.

    The agent interviewed refers to this as “getting guns off the street,” which is not accurate.

    Listen to it; go to Morning Edition here and scroll down.


  70. waldensianspirit
    71 | August 20, 2013 10:04 am

    bewildered if and only if bewildered=huge golf handicap


  71. Speranza
    72 | August 20, 2013 10:04 am

    Do you really think Hussein would have scrupled to work with al Qaeda?

    They did not get along too well.

    Maybe they did not get along too well but there are other Arab/Islamic terrorists out there that were not al-Qaeda (i.e. Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, etc) that he could have utilized.


  72. 73 | August 20, 2013 10:05 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    This is where I disagree. Bush was connived by Dick Cheney and Bill Kristol that if we installed a Democracy in Iraq that a domino effect would spread in the Mideast. It did not happen and our soldiers were attacked in the back by the very people they were sent into help.

    Look, I think what we can all agree on is that NEVER again, should we supporta war for Democracy or nation building.


  73. waldensianspirit
    75 | August 20, 2013 10:06 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:
    And of course you and I will be diagnosed as ill as need be


  74. 76 | August 20, 2013 10:07 am

    @ Speranza:

    Saddam did not get along with Hezbollah either.


  75. 77 | August 20, 2013 10:07 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    But if that was his plan, he lost his nerve and pissed away that opportunity trying to placate the Leftist media at home.

    It was also treason in Congress that prevented this. I believe, as you do, that Iran was always the Number One target, but when Iraq fell the Democrats damned near trampled each other trying to get on the side of al Qaeda in Iraq. Dick Durbin (D-al Qaeda) was the worst, but there were innumerable examples of the Left giving aid and comfort to our enemies. Once that started, Bush was defeated. I blame him fo rnot fighting back. He should have called Durbin a traitor and demande dthat the Democrats stop the treason in their ranks. He would have been a much more successful President if he’d been willing to fight.


  76. Speranza
    78 | August 20, 2013 10:07 am

    @ Rodan:
    “Democracy” -- the chimera of all neo Wilsonians that that is what the people of the world crave.
    By the way I am glad that Hosni Mubarak has been released. I’ll bet that he hates Obama’s guts.


  77. 79 | August 20, 2013 10:08 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Obama is a product of his own hype.


  78. Speranza
    80 | August 20, 2013 10:09 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    The guys from Powerline think that Dick Durbin is the dumbest Senator out there, even dumber than Patty Murray.


  79. waldensianspirit
    81 | August 20, 2013 10:09 am

    @ Rodan:
    No Dick Cheney was pushed aside in favor of Dr Rice


  80. Speranza
    82 | August 20, 2013 10:10 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    No Dick Cheney was pushed aside in favor of Dr Rice

    Clueless Condi Rice another incompetent who followed incompetent Colin Powell.


  81. 83 | August 20, 2013 10:10 am

    @ Speranza:

    What we did to Mubarak was wrong.


  82. Speranza
    84 | August 20, 2013 10:11 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Saddam did not get along with Hezbollah either.

    They could kiss and make up in order to kill Americans and Jews.


  83. Speranza
    85 | August 20, 2013 10:11 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    What we did to Mubarak was wrong.

    It was a betrayal of a loyal friend.


  84. 86 | August 20, 2013 10:11 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    No Dick Cheney was pushed aside in favor of Dr Rice

    Yes he was pushed aside after his Spread Democracy canard in Iraq failed. Condi Rice is another clueless idiot.


  85. waldensianspirit
    87 | August 20, 2013 10:11 am

    It will get interesting when Mubarak is free and he speaks to the things he knows about Emperor Obama


  86. Speranza
    88 | August 20, 2013 10:12 am

    Iran was always the bigger threat than Iraq was.


  87. 89 | August 20, 2013 10:12 am

    @ Speranza:

    I think they got along well enough. Haven’t we seen that time and again from the Muslims? They will work in concert together against a common enemy, even if they are themselves enemies. The best example of this was Saddam Hussein sending the Iraqi Air Force to Iran during the First Gulf War. He’d fought a long war against the Iranians, but when it came time to save his weapons, he sent them to Iran. If we’d backed down from the Second Gulf War, sanctions would have ended within 18 months. What happens then? Nobody knows, but I do not believe that the world would be a safer place if we’d left Saddam Hussein in place.


  88. Speranza
    90 | August 20, 2013 10:12 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    It will get interesting when Mubarak is free and he speaks to the things he knows about Emperor Obama

    That will be priceless.


  89. 91 | August 20, 2013 10:13 am

    @ Speranza:

    Look we can argue about Iraq all day, but at the end of the day we can all agree. No more Iraq wars or nation building.


  90. 92 | August 20, 2013 10:14 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Iran was always the bigger threat than Iraq was.

    Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  91. coldwarrior
    93 | August 20, 2013 10:14 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    But if that was his plan, he lost his nerve and pissed away that opportunity trying to placate the Leftist media at home.

    and he was a naive fool.


  92. 94 | August 20, 2013 10:15 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Like I said we have our disagreements about this. But we can agree, that we should not do anymore Iraq style nation building exercises.


  93. 95 | August 20, 2013 10:15 am

    @ Speranza:

    Durbin is the worst one up there, certainly. It says something abou tIllinois that he’s been their Senator for as long as he has been. And it says something about the Democrats that he is as high up in their hierarchy as he is.


  94. Speranza
    96 | August 20, 2013 10:15 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I think they got along well enough. Haven’t we seen that time and again from the Muslims? They will work in concert together against a common enemy, even if they are themselves enemies. The best example of this was Saddam Hussein sending the Iraqi Air Force to Iran during the First Gulf War. He’d fought a long war against the Iranians, but when it came time to save his weapons, he sent them to Iran. If we’d backed down from the Second Gulf War, sanctions would have ended within 18 months. What happens then? Nobody knows, but I do not believe that the world would be a safer place if we’d left Saddam Hussein in place.

    Yes I recall the Iraqi Air Force flying to Iran for sanctuary and the Iranians confiscated all the planes and never returned them. Muslims always hate each other but they hate Jews and infidels even more. Heck, Iran now has Iraq its bitter enemy from 1980-88 under its influence. Imagine that!


  95. 97 | August 20, 2013 10:15 am

    The “Arab World” makes sense for the first time in recent memory and, of course, the Obama administration finds itself on the WRONG SIDE, as usual, sucking up to the MoBro that have treated him with contempt and forcefully alienating the Egyptian military.

    If it weren’t so tragic, it’d be hilarious. We don’t need a “reset”, we need to restore the backup to 2008.


  96. Speranza
    98 | August 20, 2013 10:16 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Durbin is the worst one up there, certainly. It says something abou tIllinois that he’s been their Senator for as long as he has been. And it says something about the Democrats that he is as high up in their hierarchy as he is.

    He compared our people in Iraq to the Khmer Rouge. he is a despicable ignoramus.


  97. 99 | August 20, 2013 10:16 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Bush was a Leftist, that is the truth. I still don’t understand why the Right defends the failed polcies of a man who is not on the Right. Yes he was a good guy and meant well, but he was a man of the Left, hence we should not defend the failures of a Progressive.


  98. coldwarrior
    100 | August 20, 2013 10:16 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    It will get interesting when Mubarak is free and he speaks to the things he knows about Emperor Obama

    oh! my my my…wont THAT be interesting!


  99. Speranza
    101 | August 20, 2013 10:17 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    The “Arab World” makes sense for the first time in recent memory and, of course, the Obama administration finds itself on the WRONG SIDE, as usual, sucking up to the MoBro that have treated him with contempt and forcefully alienating the Egyptian military.

    If it weren’t so tragic, it’d be hilarious. We don’t need a “reset”, we need to restore the backup to 2008.

    2012 was our chance for the “back up” and the American voters blinked.


  100. 102 | August 20, 2013 10:18 am

    @ MacDuff:

    The one good thing that has come out of this is that the Egyptian Military and Israel are now close. This could be something beneficial long term.


  101. Speranza
    103 | August 20, 2013 10:22 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    The one good thing that has come out of this is that the Egyptian Military and Israel are now close. This could be something beneficial long term.

    Yes it is in both nations best interests.


  102. Speranza
    104 | August 20, 2013 10:23 am

    Hamas, an ally of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood will suffer.


  103. 105 | August 20, 2013 10:23 am

    @ Rodan:

    I am not in favor of Nation Building exercises, no. There was no reason to try to turn Iraq into a Jeffersonian Republic. Such things only work where the cultural framework is there for them to work. At the end of World War Two, we did engage in nation building, but we were comitted to a decades-long process. We wrote their Constitutions and forced them to adopt them. We reordered their internal power structure, and enforced a radical de-Nazification policy in Germany. And still, look at how long it was before Germany was totally reunited. We didn’t do it on a Five Year Plan timetable. The will wasn’t there for the kind of effort that such a thing would have required to be successful. It would have been far better for us to set up a provisional government that we could control than to have had elections as quickly as we did. The reasons we didn’t are purely domestic politics. The Democrats were determined that America should fail in Iraq, and they worked mightily for that end. Politics used to stop at the water’s edge. We haven’t had as treasonous an opposition party since they stopped calling Democrats “Copperheads”.


  104. 106 | August 20, 2013 10:26 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    We haven’t had as treasonous an opposition party since they stopped calling Democrats “Copperheads”.

    Hell son, even the “Copperheads” weren’t as treasonous as these new Marxist Democrats.


  105. coldwarrior
    107 | August 20, 2013 10:28 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Bush was a Leftist, that is the truth. I still don’t understand why the Right defends the failed polcies of a man who is not on the Right. Yes he was a good guy and meant well, but he was a man of the Left, hence we should not defend the failures of a Progressive.

    leftist? nah…

    progressive, oh yes.


  106. Tanker
    108 | August 20, 2013 10:28 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    The VA is pushing the PTSD on soldiers that never even saw combat. I believe and have for some time that the goal was just as you stated. It has become a way to impose a registry for the purpose of limiting legal gun ownership. They tried really hard to label me PTSD, which I fought and won when I retired! It was no little thing when the DHS came out with the list of potential domestic terrorist with returning soldiers being on the list.

    And as for the IRAQ war and the nuances of it! There was many reasons for the good and bad that came out of that war. I like to reading the musings of those that monday morning quarterback the results. Mistakes were made, many more from the political side than from the military side. I include those political military leaders in the group of weak kneed bunch that screwed thing up. I don’t know that much though, I just happen to have been there!

    The change of the ROE was the biggest reason for loss of live/limb in both places, and they where changed drastically when Obama came along!

    “At this point what does it really matter” keeps ringing in my ears!


  107. eaglesoars
    109 | August 20, 2013 10:30 am

    dammit

    Elmore Leonard has died


  108. 110 | August 20, 2013 10:30 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Rodan:

    I am not in favor of Nation Building exercises, no. There was no reason to try to turn Iraq into a Jeffersonian Republic. Such things only work where the cultural framework is there for them to work. At the end of World War Two, we did engage in nation building, but we were comitted to a decades-long process. We wrote their Constitutions and forced them to adopt them. We reordered their internal power structure, and enforced a radical de-Nazification policy in Germany. And still, look at how long it was before Germany was totally reunited. We didn’t do it on a Five Year Plan timetable. The will wasn’t there for the kind of effort that such a thing would have required to be successful. It would have been far better for us to set up a provisional government that we could control than to have had elections as quickly as we did. The reasons we didn’t are purely domestic politics. The Democrats were determined that America should fail in Iraq, and they worked mightily for that end. Politics used to stop at the water’s edge. We haven’t had as treasonous an opposition party since they stopped calling Democrats “Copperheads”.

    Bravo, Fist, BRAVO! My sentiments, exactly!


  109. coldwarrior
    111 | August 20, 2013 10:33 am

    Tanker wrote:

    The VA is pushing the PTSD on soldiers that never even saw combat. I believe and have for some time that the goal was just as you stated. It has become a way to impose a registry for the purpose of limiting legal gun ownership.

    that is pure evil right there


  110. buzzsawmonkey
    112 | August 20, 2013 10:34 am

    @ Tanker:

    It is increasingly clear that the Left generally, and certainly the Administration, wants to disarm the populace by any means it can get away with—and that it first wants to disarm the veterans it has eased/driven out of the service, since they are the most likely to be able to handle weapons and most likely to be willing to take up arms, should they feel it necessary, to resist tyrannical government actions.


  111. 113 | August 20, 2013 10:34 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Yes he was a good guy and meant well,

    He was/is a good man, and he did mean well, but the road to hell, as they say, is paved with good intentions. Yes I did and still do like GW the man, but like you I disagreed with many of the things he did.

    Conservatives and Libertarians unlike Marxist Democrat liberal leftist fools, understand that good intentions don’t cut it when the law of unintended consequences is waiting behind every action. Society as a whole is no place for social experimentation, if it doesn’t work, or causes harm, scrap it and go back to a proven time tested working solution.


  112. 114 | August 20, 2013 10:36 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    should they feel it necessary, to resist tyrannical government actions.

    Egypt is making the Obamanation Administration feel like someone is walking on their grave. :twisted:


  113. buzzsawmonkey
    115 | August 20, 2013 10:42 am

    doriangrey wrote:

    Egypt is making the Obamanation Administration feel like someone is walking on their grave.

    Obama was “Democrat-ically elected” just as Morsi was.


  114. Speranza
    116 | August 20, 2013 10:42 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    leftist? nah…

    progressive, oh yes.

    Quite concur.


  115. 117 | August 20, 2013 10:43 am

    This is good news:

    State Representative Joe Carr announced on Ralph Bristol’s Nashville talk radio program on Tuesday that he is a candidate for the Republican nomination for the United States Senate. Carr will compete against incumbent Senator Lamar Alexander (R-TN) in the party’s August 2014 primary. Bristol had promised his listeners on Monday that someone would make a “major announcement” that will “alter the Tennessee political landscape,” and at 7:10 in the morning Joe Carr delivered on that promise.

    “I am announcing as a candidate for the United State Senate,” Carr told Bristol.

    Carr left no doubt with whom he will stand in the Senate. “Conservatives deserve a clear voice in this election, and conservative champions like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and Rand Paul need a strong ally from Tennessee in the US Senate.” Carr told Bristol.

    In a statement released by the campaign as he announced on Bristol’s program, Carr said, “I will advance the conservative movement in Washington. I will fight for the Constitution and the first principles that made our country great: personal responsibility, individual liberty, and limited government. I will stand firm in defense of the 2nd amendment and insure that life of the unborn have a strong and vocal advocate.”

    I’ve never liked Alexander. He is ultimately a political hack. Someone in position because he has the inroads from the Establishment, but he is only barely better than a Democrat in his seat would be.


  116. waldensianspirit
    118 | August 20, 2013 10:45 am

    Biden and I agreed back then; 2006
    Colleagues advise Biden to put away Iraq carving knife


  117. 119 | August 20, 2013 10:45 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    doriangrey wrote:
    Egypt is making the Obamanation Administration feel like someone is walking on their grave.
    Obama was “Democrat-ically elected” just as Morsi was.

    Yea… But so was that little German corporal… :shock: And we all know how that ended up… :twisted:


  118. buzzsawmonkey
    120 | August 20, 2013 10:45 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Carr left no doubt with whom he will stand in the Senate. “Conservatives deserve a clear voice in this election, and conservative champions like Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and Rand Paul need a strong ally from Tennessee in the US Senate.” Carr told Bristol.

    If Ted Cruz runs for President, look for Marco Rubio to go “birther” on him to aid Jeb Bush’s candidacy.


  119. eaglesoars
    121 | August 20, 2013 10:47 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Obama was “Democrat-ically elected” just as Morsi was.

    You won’t believe what I heard on a talk radio show yesterday re: Egypt/Islam. I don’t know who he was, but he said he talked to a lot of American Muslim women and they really didn’t know what sharia means because they are not allowed to read the Koran, only to what their imam tells them and the imam never tells them the Koran permits them to be beaten by their husbands.

    I was driving and I laughed so hard I almost had to pull over


  120. buzzsawmonkey
    122 | August 20, 2013 10:48 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    Taqiyya to the limit, one more time…


  121. 123 | August 20, 2013 10:50 am

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    They could very well try that, but Cruz has already released his birth certificate. His mother was an American Citizen, therefore he is an American Citizen. I never agreed with the birther nonsense about Obama, either, though it is clear that Obama is hiding something in his birth certificate. I doubt it is the fact that his mother wasn’t an American citizen. I’m figuring it says “Father -- Unknown” or something equally embarrassing, but nothing that would disqualify him from being President.


  122. coldwarrior
    124 | August 20, 2013 10:52 am

    RAWALPINDI, Pakistan (AP) -- A Pakistani court on Tuesday indicted former president and army chief Pervez Musharraf on murder charges in connection with the 2007 assassination of iconic Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, deepening the fall of a once-powerful figure who returned to the country this year to make a political comeback.


  123. lobo91
    125 | August 20, 2013 10:53 am

    Speaking of taqiyya:

    Anti-Gun Group Releases Blatantly Deceptive “Reenactment” of Trayvon Martin Shooting…

    The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence has released a chilling new online ad reenacting the night Travyon Martin was killed, in an effort to stop the controversial Stand Your Ground laws nationwide.

    The nonprofit group uses actual audio from the 911 calls that shooter George Zimmerman and a witness made that night in Sanford, Fla. After the sound of a gunshot, people in hoodies are seen lying on the ground, and the names are displayed of the more than 20 states that have Stand Your Ground laws in place.

    The group has also launched a website and a petition asking people to urge their state lawmakers to “oppose this immoral legislation.”

    “‘Stand Your Ground’ laws have essentially legalized murder. With this PSA, we hope to add to the nationwide push to repeal these immoral laws,” said CSGV Communications Director Ladd Everitt.


  124. eaglesoars
    126 | August 20, 2013 10:54 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    I’m figuring it says “Father — Unknown” or something equally embarrassing,

    I doubt it. I think his father is who Obama says he was. I think he used Obama’s mother to stay in the U.S. As I recall, Harvard pulled his position because they determined that his marriage to an American woman was a sham undertaken to give him access to the U.S. -- he was already married to a Kenyan woman.


  125. eaglesoars
    127 | August 20, 2013 10:55 am

    @ lobo91:

    did you see Elmore Leonard died today?


  126. 128 | August 20, 2013 10:56 am

    @ doriangrey:

    Well said!


  127. 129 | August 20, 2013 10:57 am

    I tell you what -- if W gets the Republican nomination for 2016, I’m voting Libertarian.


  128. lobo91
    130 | August 20, 2013 10:58 am

    eaglesoars wrote:

    @ lobo91:

    did you see Elmore Leonard died today?

    I did. Very sad news.


  129. Speranza
    131 | August 20, 2013 10:58 am

    Muslim Butcher Who Chopped Up Baby Daughter Sues Prison for Not Being Fed Halal Meat

    Maybe the prison couldn’t find any Halal babies.


  130. 133 | August 20, 2013 10:59 am

    I usually don’t do two in one day (not now that I am back to work) but I couldn’t resist this…

    Just Wow…


  131. eaglesoars
    134 | August 20, 2013 10:59 am

    @ Speranza:

    I REALLY don’t need that in my head


  132. Tanker
    135 | August 20, 2013 11:00 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I’ve never liked Alexander. He is ultimately a political hack. Someone in position because he has the inroads from the Establishment, but he is only barely better than a Democrat in his seat would be.

    This goes along with my big problem with Rand Paul. He is backing McConnell here in KY. I’ve voted for McConnell in his last three elections, but it’s high time for him to be gone.

    Show some balls Rand if you really believe what you say. McConnell does not stand for what you say is the way to go!


  133. 136 | August 20, 2013 11:01 am

    @ lobo91:

    I was going to do that as a evening thread. The depiction is such BS. Zimmerman never had line of sight on Martin and did not walk up to him with his gun. Martin was the one who blind sided Zimmerman.

    This shit is really, really getting old.


  134. 137 | August 20, 2013 11:01 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ doriangrey:
    Well said!

    Hey, I just did a very short new post at my place, please read it and consider it for guest post today… Just Wow…


  135. 138 | August 20, 2013 11:02 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    I don’t know what it would be that he was hiding, then, and it is clear that he is hiding something. Just like with him keeping all his college transcripts concealed. There, I think, it is the fact that he was nowhere near the stellar student that they portray him as. In fact, I bet my grades were better than his. BUt the secracy considering his birth certificate I just don’t get.


  136. eaglesoars
    139 | August 20, 2013 11:03 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    Very intriguing move…a full frontal assault on the Queen.

    something I think Stedman has been unable to accomplish -- Gayle, maybe


  137. 140 | August 20, 2013 11:05 am

    @ Rodan:

    I’m not a lawyer, but wouldn’t this constitute slander? I think you could prove actual malice, here. Zimmerman has been found innocent of any crime in a trial by jury. Making up “facts” that run counter to this verdict and publishing them sure sounds like slander to me.


  138. 141 | August 20, 2013 11:05 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I think he’s hiding his race and father. His race probably says Mulatto or mixed. This would destroy the 1st Black President lie. They need some mystery as to Obama’s origins to keep up the God act.


  139. Speranza
    142 | August 20, 2013 11:06 am

    eaglesoars wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    I REALLY don’t need that in my head

    It is what it is.


  140. 143 | August 20, 2013 11:06 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    It’s no different than that mural that has Zimmerman with an Uzi like Scarface. This is a smear and a lie. Zimmerman should look into suing.


  141. Speranza
    144 | August 20, 2013 11:07 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    It’s no different than that Mural that has ZImmerman with an Uzi like Scarface. This is a smear and a lie. Zimmerman should look into suing.

    He is suing NBC for that doctored 911 call.


  142. 145 | August 20, 2013 11:08 am

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Biden and I agreed back then; 2006
    Colleagues advise Biden to put away Iraq carving knife

    Biden was right on this.


  143. Speranza
    146 | August 20, 2013 11:08 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    I think he’s hiding his race and father. His race probably says Mulatto or mixed. This would destroy the 1st Black President lie. They need some mystery as to Obama’s origins to keep up the God act.

    Bill Clinton is the first Black president. /


  144. 147 | August 20, 2013 11:08 am

    @ Speranza:

    Good.


  145. 148 | August 20, 2013 11:09 am

    @ Speranza:

    He was more “Black” than Obama.


  146. Speranza
    149 | August 20, 2013 11:11 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    I tell you what — if W gets the Republican nomination for 2016, I’m voting Libertarian.

    His brother Jeb has at least a 50/50 chance of being the nominee.


  147. eaglesoars
    150 | August 20, 2013 11:12 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    and it is clear that he is hiding something.

    I know. The only thing I can think of is that Obama has his own suspicions -- no clear knowledge. Marriage does not indicate paternity but Obama the Kenyan certainly thought he was his son.

    OTOH -- you know I think Obama is somebody’s tool -- it may not be him calling the shots

    I’d offer everyone of these people a bottle of cool sparkling water, confiscate the bottles and start running DNA tests

    And don’t tell me there aren’t any hackers around who can get to his college grades. The PENTAGON has been hacked for chrissake


  148. Speranza
    151 | August 20, 2013 11:12 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    He was more “Black” than Obama.

    He grew up poorer that’s for sure.


  149. Speranza
    152 | August 20, 2013 11:13 am

    Rodan wrote:

    I was going to do that as a evening thread. The depiction is such BS. Zimmerman never had line of sight on Martin and did not walk up to him with his gun. Martin was the one who blind sided Zimmerman.

    This shit is really, really getting old.

    The Left will not let go of it. Years from now Trayvon Martin is going to be a well known name. They will probably do a movie about him.


  150. eaglesoars
    153 | August 20, 2013 11:13 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    I think he’s hiding his race and father. His race probably says Mulatto or mixed. This would destroy the 1st Black President lie. They need some mystery as to Obama’s origins to keep up the God act.

    no it wouldn’t -- everybody knows his mom was white


  151. Speranza
    154 | August 20, 2013 11:14 am

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Rodan wrote:
    @ Iron Fist:
    I think he’s hiding his race and father. His race probably says Mulatto or mixed. This would destroy the 1st Black President lie. They need some mystery as to Obama’s origins to keep up the God act.

    no it wouldn’t — everybody knows his mom was white

    Now if you have a drop of Black blood in you, you are considered wholly Black.


  152. 155 | August 20, 2013 11:15 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Mike C. wrote:
    I tell you what — if W gets the Republican nomination for 2016, I’m voting Libertarian.
    His brother Jeb has at least a 50/50 chance of being the nominee.

    Heh. I think Rodan just contradicted you with his new thread. Christie is now the sure bet.


  153. 156 | August 20, 2013 11:16 am

    @ Rodan:

    I wouldthink that they are wide open to a slander suit. I know NBC is. If their lawyers are smart, they’ll try to settle that case for a few million dollars. Zimmerman doesn’t have to prove actual malice, as he is not a public figure, but I think you could prove actual malice in the way they altered his words to make it seem like he was a racist.


  154. Speranza
    157 | August 20, 2013 11:18 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    Heh. I think Rodan just contradicted you with his new thread. Christie is now the sure bet.

    That’s because the GOP thinks that Hillary is a shoo in and they do not want to run Jeb unless they are confident he can win. Rodan and I believe it or not are not always on the same page and do not always agree with each other. If they feel better about their chances in 2016 they will run W’s unremarkable little brother.


  155. Speranza
    158 | August 20, 2013 11:20 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    I wouldthink that they are wide open to a slander suit. I know NBC is. If their lawyers are smart, they’ll try to settle that case for a few million dollars. Zimmerman doesn’t have to prove actual malice, as he is not a public figure, but I think you could prove actual malice in the way they altered his words to make it seem like he was a racist.

    I am sure NBC wants to quietly settle.


  156. 159 | August 20, 2013 11:23 am

    eaglesoars wrote:

    And don’t tell me there aren’t any hackers around who can get to his college grades. The PENTAGON has been hacked for chrissake

    Yeah, I’m surprized that Anonymous hasn’t done it just to prove that they can.


  157. eaglesoars
    160 | August 20, 2013 11:24 am

    Speranza wrote:

    I am sure NBC wants to quietly settle.

    Unfortunately for NBC, Mark O’Mara is the opposing attorney.


  158. eaglesoars
    161 | August 20, 2013 11:25 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    Yeah, I’m surprized that Anonymous hasn’t done it just to prove that they can.

    and wikileaks is just right there with open arms -- so to speak


  159. 162 | August 20, 2013 11:26 am

    Speranza wrote:

    If they feel better about their chances in 2016 they will run W’s unremarkable little brother.

    And he’ll lose. After the way W let himself be a punching bag for the Democrats the Bush name is toxic. No one is pining for the halcyon days of the Bush Administration even though unemployment was much less then. If the Republicans actually want to win (something I am not convinced of) then they will stay as far away from Jeb Bush as they can.


  160. 163 | August 20, 2013 11:29 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    Yeah, what a coup that would be for Assange. The Republicans (both McCain and Romney) should have made much of the fact that Obama is keeping his transcripts secret. After all, every GOP candidate is forced to reveal every little bit of their private lives for excoriation by the Democrats. Obama was given a pass because the Republicans were afraid that they’d be called RAAAAACIST. And they were called racist anyway.


  161. eaglesoars
    164 | August 20, 2013 11:33 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Yeah, what a coup that would be for Assange. The Republicans (both McCain and Romney) should have made much of the fact that Obama is keeping his transcripts secret. After all, every GOP candidate is forced to reveal every little bit of their private lives for excoriation by the Democrats.

    Did you see that Caroline Kennedy refused to reveal her financial info when she was running for the Senate -- but now that she’s about to be ambassador to Japan, she’s spilling her guts?

    I guess it’s not too difficult to learn to say “You know” in Japanese


  162. Speranza
    165 | August 20, 2013 11:33 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    And he’ll lose. After the way W let himself be a punching bag for the Democrats the Bush name is toxic.

    Tell that to Mike C. (and to Rove).


  163. eaglesoars
    166 | August 20, 2013 11:49 am

    gotta go -- later


  164. 167 | August 20, 2013 7:50 pm

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    What we did to Mubarak was wrong.

    Hell YEAH!
    doriangrey wrote:

    Iron Fist wrote:
    We haven’t had as treasonous an opposition party since they stopped calling Democrats “Copperheads”.
    Hell son, even the “Copperheads” weren’t as treasonous as these new Marxist Democrats.

    Copperheads were not treasonous. Unlike Lincoln, they had an arguable Constitutional basis for their actions. I’m happy to call myself a Copperhead and am delighted to be accepted as such by unreconstructed Southerners.

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    The one good thing that has come out of this is that the Egyptian Military and Israel are now close. This could be something beneficial long term.

    True.

    Rodan wrote:

    We are just going to have to disagree on this. But we can agree, that never again should America engage in wars to spread Democracy.

    Hell YEAH.

    Our Founders condemned “democracy” as mob rule, which it is.
    They supported a REPUBLIC. Huge difference.


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