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The US government condemns Turkey’s blaming Israel for the coup in Egypt, and The New York Times blames Israel and AIPAC for prolonging Egypt’s agony

by Speranza ( 98 Comments › )
Filed under Barack Obama, Egypt, Israel, Muslim Brotherhood, Turkey at August 21st, 2013 - 11:00 am
Recip Tayyip Erdogan, Obama’s BFF in the Middle East has proven himself to be a serial anti-Semite, a demagogue, a tyrant, and a liar. Netanyahu’s apology has not lead to the better relations promised by Obama and there is still no Turkish ambassador in Israel. However it has (as the article states) relieved any further pressure on Israel to make any more gestures to the Ottoman Imperialist.
by Michael Wilner

The United States on Tuesday said it “strongly condemns” comments from Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan blaming Israel for the military coup and ensuing crisis gripping Egypt.

“We strongly condemn the statements that were made by Prime Minister Erdogan today. Suggesting that Israel is somehow responsible for recent events in Egypt is offensive, unsubstantiated, and wrong,” White House spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters in a briefing.

State Department deputy spokeswoman Marie Harf on reiterated the comments and said the Turkish leader’s comments harmed the diplomatic process going forward.

Erdogan told provincial leaders of his AK Party on Tuesday that his government had evidence Israel had a hand in events that led to the ouster of Mohammed Morsi, leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, from Egypt’s presidency.

[…….]

In the wake of the violence in Egypt last week— which led to the deaths of thousands of demonstrating civilians and the wounding of thousands more— Turkey called the incident a “massacre” at the hands of the Egyptian military.

Erdogan’s rant was not worthy of a response, Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said Tuesday.

“This is a statement well worth not commenting on,” Palmor said. Another  Israeli officials said he had a one word response for Erdogan: “Nonsense.”

The Turkish premier, who has a history of anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic remarks, blamed Israel on Tuesday for the events that brought about Morsi’s ouster.

“Who is behind [the ouster]? There is Israel,” Erdoğan said at a meeting of his AK Party in Ankara. “We have [a] document in our hands.”

The document, it emerged, was a video of a discussion held at Tel Aviv University on the Arab Spring in June 2011 between Tzipi Livni, then the head of the opposition and today the Justice Minister, and French Jewish intellectual Bernard-Henri Levy.

Levy, during the symposium, said,  “If the Muslim Brotherhood arrives in Egypt, I will not say democracy wants it, so let democracy progress. [……..]”

Levi said Hamas’ takeover of Gaza “was [a] putsch, a coup; a democratic coup, but a coup. Hitler in 1933 was a coup; a democratic coup, but a coup.”

Asked by the moderator, former New York Times Jerusalem correspondent Ethan Bronner, whether he would urge Egypt’s military to intervene against the Muslim Brotherhood if they would win a legitimate election,  Levy said: “I will urge the prevention of them coming to power, but by all sort of means.”

Citing this discussion, Erdogan said, ‘The Muslim Brotherhood will not be in power even if they win the elections, because democracy is not the ballot box.’ This is what they said at that time.”

Erdogan’s comments come just a few weeks after he blamed unrest in his own country on an “interest rate lobby,” widely believed to be a metaphor for western Jewish businessmen.  […….]

Even Turkey’s Hurrityet Daily News seems to be tiring somewhat of Erdogan’s anti-Israel rants and conspiracy theories. The lead to an article on Erdogan’s comments Tuesday that appeared on the paper’s website began with the words, “Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan went back on the warpath August 20, accusing one of Ankara’s most prominent bogeymen, Israel, of complicity in overthrowing Egyptian President Mohamed Morsi.”

Erdogan’s comment Tuesday came some five months after Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu – at the behest of US President Barack Obama – phoned the Turkish prime minister and apologized for operational errors that may have led to loss of life on the Mavi Marmara ship that tired to break the naval blockade of Gaza in 2010.

While that apology was supposed to have paved the way for an Israeli-Turkish reconciliation, talks for compensation payments quickly bogged down as the Turks added that they now wanted an Israeli admission that the compensation payments was the result of a wrongful act.  Expectations that the apology would lead relatively quickly to the exchange of ambassadors failed to materialize.

What the apology did do, one Israeli official said Tuesday, was remove US pressure on Israel to reconcile with Turkey, since in the eyes of the US, Netanyahu did what he needed to do.

Read the rest –  US slams Turkish PM Erdogan for blaming Egypt crisis on Israel

Funny how the Israelis and Saudis are in a de facto alliance  to get the United States not to cut off the Egyptian Army from sanctions.
by  Leo Rennert

It’s the lead story on the Sunday front page of the New York Times — a lengthy piece on how frantic, behind-the-scenes efforts by U.S. and European diplomats supposedly came close to building a path toward ending the bloody conflict in Egypt between the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood and the military-backed interim government.

In the end, as we all know, external prodding failed. But in allotting blame for why diplomacy didn’t succeed, the Times gratuitously points an accusing finger at Israel and AIPAC, the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, for allegedly siding with the Egyptian military and undermining U.S. diplomacy (“How a U.S. Push to Defuse Egypt Ended in Failure – Barrage of Diplomacy — Despite 17 Calls from Hagel, Cairo Chose Confrontation” by David Kirkpatrick, Peter Baker and Michael Gordon).

[……..]

Yet length doesn’t guarantee accurate reporting. In fact, the Times dispatch is built on a deeply flawed premise that outside pressures somehow might have been able to bring Egypt’s agony to an end, especially if President Obama had shown more backbone and cut off $1.3 billion in U.S. military aid to Cairo.  [……..] Suspension of U.S. military aid would be more than offset by more generous military aid from Saudi Arabia and other wealthy Arab oil states.

But in pursuit of external meddlers aligned against Washington diplomacy, the Times prefers to build a case against Israel and AIPAC. Here’s how Kirkpatrick, Baker, and Gordon put it:

“The Israelis, whose military had close ties to General Sisi from his former post as head of military intelligence, were supporting the (military) takeover as well. Western diplomats say that General Sisi and his circle appeared to be in heavy communication with Israeli colleagues, and the diplomats believed the Israelis were also undercutting the Western message by reassuring the Egyptians not to worry about American threats to cut off aid.

“Israeli officials deny having reassured Egypt about the aid, but acknowledge having lobbied Washington to protect it.

“When Senator Rand Paul, Republican of Kentucky, proposed an amendment halting military aid to Egypt, the influential American Israel Public Affairs Committee sent a letter to senators on July 31 opposing it, saying it ‘could increase instability in Egypt and undermine important U.S. interests and negatively impact our Israel ally.’ Statements from influential lawmakers echoed the letter, and the Senate defeated the measure, 86 to 13, later that day.”

There’s more here than a whiff of Jewish conspiracy theories that fueled medieval anti-Semitism. Notice that AIPAC is tagged as an “influential” pressure group presumably capable of swaying the U.S. Senate. AIPAC cracks the whip, purportedly, and 83 senators jump to Israel’s tune. It apparently doesn’t occur to the Times that 83 U.S. senators are capable of voting based on their own agendas and beliefs — without a need of “influential” external lobbying to make up their own minds.

As for Israel’s supposed role in taking sides against the Muslim Brotherhood, the authors of the article never bother to identify their sources. Never mind that Israeli officials from Prime Minister Netanyahu on down are on record as having decided that Israel will avoid involvement in Egypt’s conflict. So why rely on dubious, unattributed sources like “the Israelis” and “Western diplomats ” and “the diplomats believed,” and General Sisi “appeared to be” etc.? Could it be that on-the-record

[…….]

Read  the rest - NY Times Blames Israel and AIPAC for Prolonging Egypt’s Agony

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98 Responses to “The US government condemns Turkey’s blaming Israel for the coup in Egypt, and The New York Times blames Israel and AIPAC for prolonging Egypt’s agony”
( jump to bottom )

  1. Speranza
    1 | August 21, 2013 11:22 am

    Wow Erdogan turned out to be a backstabbing, lying, demagogue. Who would have thought that?


  2. MikeA
    2 | August 21, 2013 11:23 am

    Repeat from the lower thread.

    Did anyone see this story. I just read up on it a bit..

    Child Rapists and Other Well-Meaning Liberals

    WTF is wrong with these teachers writing support letters for a child rapist?


  3. Speranza
    3 | August 21, 2013 11:23 am

    It is amazing that the Mossad can manipulate millions of Egyptians to turn out into the streets.


  4. Speranza
    4 | August 21, 2013 11:24 am

    MikeA wrote:

    Repeat from the lower thread.
    Did anyone see this story. I just read up on it a bit..
    Child Rapists and Other Well-Meaning Liberals
    WTF is wrong with these teachers writing support letters for a child rapist?

    I never understood the romaticization of teaching. For most teachers that I have met (I have done sub teaching) it is just a job.


  5. buzzsawmonkey
    5 | August 21, 2013 11:25 am

    MikeA wrote:

    WTF is wrong with these teachers writing support letters for a child rapist?

    That’s the lab section of the new sex-ed curriculum.


  6. Speranza
    6 | August 21, 2013 11:25 am

    One thing you have to remember about The New York Times – it is always wrong.


  7. buzzsawmonkey
    7 | August 21, 2013 11:26 am

    Speranza wrote:

    I never understood the romaticization of teaching. For most teachers that I have met (I have done sub teaching) it is just a job.

    It gives the Left a basis to claim what they’re doing is “for the children,” which sort of takes attention away from their efforts to ensure that many children don’t make it out of the birth canal alive.


  8. Speranza
    8 | August 21, 2013 11:26 am

    What the apology did do, one Israeli official said Tuesday, was remove US pressure on Israel to reconcile with Turkey, since in the eyes of the US, Netanyahu did what he needed to do.

    I guess.


  9. MikeA
    9 | August 21, 2013 11:26 am

    @ Speranza:

    Its those hair rays from the uncovered women. Add the mutant sharks (with lasers) and you have the Mossad being all powerful.


  10. Speranza
    10 | August 21, 2013 11:27 am

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    I never understood the romaticization of teaching. For most teachers that I have met (I have done sub teaching) it is just a job.

    It gives the Left a basis to claim what they’re doing is “for the children,” which sort of takes attention away from their efforts to ensure that many children don’t make it out of the birth canal alive.

    Also a lot of the teachers I spoke to at the teachers lounges actually could not stand their students – and these were “good schools” too!


  11. 11 | August 21, 2013 11:28 am

    Did Raimondo write this article from the NY Times?


  12. 12 | August 21, 2013 11:31 am

    Speranza wrote:

    I never understood the romaticization of teaching. For most teachers that I have met (I have done sub teaching) it is just a job.

    I think they tend to romanticize all government “service” for reasons that are painfully obvious.


  13. coldwarrior
    13 | August 21, 2013 11:35 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    Did Raimondo write this article from the NY Times?

    holy smokes! its barry goldwater!!!

    :lol:


  14. 14 | August 21, 2013 11:36 am

    Speranza wrote:

    Also a lot of the teachers I spoke to at the teachers lounges actually could not stand their students — and these were “good schools” too!

    I had a young teacher live next door to me for a time. His goal was to get the hell out of the classroom and into administration as quickly as possible- I think he was far from unique.


  15. 15 | August 21, 2013 11:37 am

    And it appears Al Jazeera America, which is advertising a different and open slant on news, launched its network yesterday with a Jew hating dirtbag who went on an anti-Semitic rant.

    I contacted DirecTV and told them I was extremely disappointed that they were going to carry this channel. I CALLED them – no email – I wanted them to tell me to my face. The Customer Service agent said that they were getting a multitude of calls complaining; unfortunately, at present they are contractually obligated to carry the channel through their contract with CurrenTV but are looking into it.

    I see AJAM is suing AT&T U-Verse because it isn’t carrying the channel. Right now they supposedly only go into 48,000,000 homes (and 30,000,000 of those would be DirecTV, so only 18,000,000 subscribers are coming from cable).

    This is why I wish there were cafeteria prgramming. I have blocked AJAM for the time being – but I’m hoping DTV can find a way out of this. I should imagine yesterday’s programming could be Exhibit A.


  16. 16 | August 21, 2013 11:38 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    Did Raimondo write this article from the NY Times?

    Ya know, your glasses have come back into style and I’m hoping your philosophy will soon follow!


  17. 17 | August 21, 2013 11:41 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    The last I heard, DirecTV wasn’t going to carry JihadTV, thanks for the heads-up. I’ll follow suit and call them….


  18. 18 | August 21, 2013 11:42 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Goldwater the lost icon of the Right. The more I read about him, the more I realize he was a prophet. The funny part is he would NOT recognize what Conservatism has transformed into. Heck I don’t even recognize it hence why I call myself Libertarian.


  19. 19 | August 21, 2013 11:44 am

    @ MacDuff:

    I believe Goldwaterism is making a comeback but it will take a few cycles until our faction of the Right is dominant.


  20. coldwarrior
    20 | August 21, 2013 11:45 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    its on dish and i intend on watching it once in a while to see what the qatari govt is trying to push. know thine enemy!

    mrs coldwarrior saw the aljazeera ad on dish last night and damn near blew a gasket. russians arent big fans of muzzies…it was pretty funny to watch.


  21. Speranza
    21 | August 21, 2013 11:45 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    Did Raimondo write this article from the NY Times?

    I would not be surprised.


  22. 22 | August 21, 2013 11:45 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    I call myself Libertarian.

    You’re not alone. WFB oft described himself as libertarian as well as conservative. Libertarianism’s first job is to sanitize and define the name, since Ron Paul and a cast of sundry lunatics crapped all over it.


  23. 23 | August 21, 2013 11:47 am

    @ cold warrior:

    Your wife’s Russian? You and Gutfeld should form some sort of fraternity!


  24. coldwarrior
    24 | August 21, 2013 11:48 am

    1500 today on blogmocracy, chapter one of ‘conscious of a conservative’

    one chapter a week until we are done.


  25. coldwarrior
    25 | August 21, 2013 11:50 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    @ cold warrior:
    Your wife’s Russian? You and Gutfeld should form some sort of fraternity!

    her family was thrown out of russia in the early 80’s…her dad was a trouble making orthodox priest.

    she’s half ukie and half russian.


  26. 26 | August 21, 2013 11:54 am

    @ MacDuff:

    That is why I did an anti-Raimondo thread. I have no qualms going after Libertarian loons.


  27. waldensianspirit
    27 | August 21, 2013 11:54 am

    Egyptian Court Orders Release of Hosni Mubarak…

    He should be allowed to make a speech at the UN


  28. 28 | August 21, 2013 11:58 am

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Erdogan accuses Egypt of bloody massacares, calls for them to be sent to trial. Egypt informs it’s UN diplomats to sign the document recognizing the Armenian genocide.


  29. coldwarrior
    29 | August 21, 2013 12:01 pm

    @ PaladinPhil:

    its fun to watch cousins fight


  30. 30 | August 21, 2013 12:04 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    her family was thrown out of russia in the early 80′s…her dad was a trouble making orthodox priest.

    she’s half ukie and half russian.

    It sounds like there’s a wealth of stories to be told around the Thanksgiving table, I’ll bet it’s probably riveting, at times,


  31. coldwarrior
    31 | August 21, 2013 12:05 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    they moved from moscow in februrary to the freakin’ vatican!

    lived there for a year. talk about culture shock!

    (pope jp2 was helping to get the orthodox priests out of soviet union)


  32. waldensianspirit
    32 | August 21, 2013 12:07 pm

    @ MacDuff:
    And then she ran into cw…


  33. Speranza
    33 | August 21, 2013 12:10 pm

    PaladinPhil wrote:

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA! Erdogan accuses Egypt of bloody massacares, calls for them to be sent to trial. Egypt informs it’s UN diplomats to sign the document recognizing the Armenian genocide.

    Go Egypt!


  34. Speranza
    34 | August 21, 2013 12:13 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Egyptian Court Orders Release of Hosni Mubarak…
    He should be allowed to make a speech at the UN

    He probably has a lot to say about Obama.


  35. 35 | August 21, 2013 12:14 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Death and confusion to our enemies.


  36. Speranza
    36 | August 21, 2013 12:15 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    I contacted DirecTV and told them I was extremely disappointed that they were going to carry this channel. I CALLED them — no email — I wanted them to tell me to my face. The Customer Service agent said that they were getting a multitude of calls complaining; unfortunately, at present they are contractually obligated to carry the channel through their contract with CurrenTV but are looking into it.

    I called RCN and told them the moment I see al Jizz on my TV I cancel the service.


  37. coldwarrior
    37 | August 21, 2013 12:15 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    And then she ran into cw…

    :lol:

    almost literally!


  38. Speranza
    38 | August 21, 2013 12:15 pm

    MikeA wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Its those hair rays from the uncovered women. Add the mutant sharks (with lasers) and you have the Mossad being all powerful.

    Mossad is every where!


  39. coldwarrior
    39 | August 21, 2013 12:16 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Death and confusion to our enemies.

    a curse upon all their houses!


  40. 40 | August 21, 2013 12:17 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    they moved from moscow in februrary to the freakin’ vatican!

    lived there for a year. talk about culture shock!

    (pope jp2 was helping to get the orthodox priests out of soviet union)

    You should write all of this down, witnesses to history and all that. It was one of those unique “seams” in history.

    Speaking of JPII. I’m perplexed and, frankly ashamed of the Vatican’s lack of forceful condemnation of the MoBro atrocities in Egypt. The Copts seem to be twisting in the wind. Calls for prayer are fine, but when you have the bully pulpit of the Papacy, it seems a tragic waste not to use it at a time of such Christian persecution. I can’t help but think that Benedict would have far more vocal.


  41. 41 | August 21, 2013 12:21 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    Seems to be a problem in the whole Christian world.


  42. coldwarrior
    42 | August 21, 2013 12:28 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    MikeA wrote:
    @ Speranza:
    Its those hair rays from the uncovered women. Add the mutant sharks (with lasers) and you have the Mossad being all powerful.

    Mossad is every where!

    i saw them at the bar at lunch yesterday!


  43. Speranza
    43 | August 21, 2013 12:35 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    MikeA wrote:
    @ Speranza:
    Its those hair rays from the uncovered women. Add the mutant sharks (with lasers) and you have the Mossad being all powerful.
    Mossad is every where!

    i saw them at the bar at lunch yesterday!

    The guy who washed your car last week – he was Mossad!


  44. coldwarrior
    44 | August 21, 2013 12:36 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Speaking of JPII. I’m perplexed and, frankly ashamed of the Vatican’s lack of forceful condemnation of the MoBro atrocities in Egypt. The Copts seem to be twisting in the wind. Calls for prayer are fine, but when you have the bully pulpit of the Papacy, it seems a tragic waste not to use it at a time of such Christian persecution. I can’t help but think that Benedict would have far more vocal.

    i am perplexed as well.


  45. coldwarrior
    45 | August 21, 2013 12:36 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    Speranza wrote:
    MikeA wrote:
    @ Speranza:
    Its those hair rays from the uncovered women. Add the mutant sharks (with lasers) and you have the Mossad being all powerful.
    Mossad is every where!
    i saw them at the bar at lunch yesterday!

    The guy who washed your car last week — he was Mossad!

    and he missed a spot!

    :lol:


  46. 46 | August 21, 2013 12:44 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Christian leadership (or those who should be Christian leaders) act ashamed to be seen as vocally pro-Christian. Christianity is still the world’s dominant religion. There are as many Catholics as there are Muslims, and then you add all the Protestants in, and you have what, maybe two-fifths of the planet? Yet we behave as though we had something to be ashamed of, while Muslims trumpet their latest arocities as progress! I don’t really understand the why of that. I guess( and it is just a guess) that it is because of inroads that the Left has made into the Church, demonizing Christianity for being dominant. Muslims have no problem ethnically and religiously cleansing the parts of the globe that are under their control. Indeed, if what has gone on with the Copts in Egypt and the Christian minority in Iraq are to be taken as examples, the world will stand silent for Christian genocide. This is wrong, and we need leaders who will decry this anti-Christian standard in the world. We are sorely in need of good leaders.


  47. coldwarrior
    47 | August 21, 2013 12:47 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    i would have zero problem with a new crusade. utterly and vengefully destroy one or two areas and our muzz problem would rapidly go away, because all muslim men are at their hearts cowards.


  48. 48 | August 21, 2013 12:54 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Indeed, if what has gone on with the Copts in Egypt and the Christian minority in Iraq are to be taken as examples

    We are responsible for what hapepned to the Iraqi Christians. It happened under an allegedly Christian US President with US forces turning a blind eye. Yet many on the Right refuse to even admit its our fault.

    This is wrong, and we need leaders who will decry this anti-Christian standard in the world.

    The Politicians who claim to be holy Christians rather rant and rail about gays or single mothers. Christians being killed by Muzz don’t concern them. The truth is that politically speaking, Christians have no power. The politicians calling themselves Christians only use the religion to score political points and whip people up with red meat rhetroic.

    I would have more respect for these politiicans if they spoke out on what is going on with the Copts than ranting about a TV show of single women sleeping around.


  49. 49 | August 21, 2013 12:54 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    Lesbians kissing on TV is a bigger threat to Christians!
    ////

    -Rick Santorum


  50. MikeA
    50 | August 21, 2013 12:56 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    coldwarrior wrote:
    Speranza wrote:
    MikeA wrote:
    @ Speranza:
    Its those hair rays from the uncovered women. Add the mutant sharks (with lasers) and you have the Mossad being all powerful.
    Mossad is every where!
    i saw them at the bar at lunch yesterday!
    The guy who washed your car last week — he was Mossad!

    I washed my car last week. Am I Mossad and don’t know it?


  51. MikeA
    51 | August 21, 2013 12:56 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Lesbians kissing on TV is a bigger threat to Christians!
    ////
    -Rick Santorum

    What channel? Just for research purposes….


  52. 52 | August 21, 2013 1:00 pm

    @ Goldwaterite:

    I don’t see why you can’t do both. You can’t look at the rate of single-motherhood and its correlation to criminal activity and honestly say that there isn’t a problem there. It is, in fact, one of the biggest reasons that half of all homicides are comitted by young black males. But there is no reason to remain silent on the persecution of Christians that is still the staple in many parts of the world. YOu can look to Africa, where Christians are routinely killed by Muslims, as another theater where everyone remains silent. Do you really think Clinton would have remained silent on Rwanda if the people being exterminated had been Muslim and (especially) white?


  53. 53 | August 21, 2013 1:06 pm

    @ MikeA:

    :lol:


  54. 54 | August 21, 2013 1:06 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    We should have burned Afghanistan down to the ground, then sown their fields with salt. That would have taken care of Mohammedan terrorism for generations. We look at America, though, and even though there were no reprisals against the Mohammedan minority for 9-11 we still decry “Islamophobia” because people (including Juan Williams) look ascance as Muslims on planes. The Mohammedans don’t see this as tolerance. They see the lack of reprisals as weakness, and the lily-livered whining about “Islamophobia” as cowardice, and I am inclined to agree with them, especially on the latter. People are afraid to forthrightly state that there is a Mohammedan Problem, and if they won’t even talk about it, you know damned well they won’t do anything about it. We could do with a little more hatred towards our enemies, not less.


  55. 55 | August 21, 2013 1:18 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    You can’t look at the rate of single-motherhood and its correlation to criminal activity and honestly say that there isn’t a problem there.

    How do Conservatives plan to slove it and what can the government do about it? This is a result of personal choices and circumstances. Not every father is a good guy and not every mother is a siant. Shit happens and some people choose to remain single becasue they can’t find a good mate. It’s not a perfect world and never will be.

    Do you really think Clinton would have remained silent on Rwanda if the people being exterminated had been Muslim and (especially) white?

    Bosnia and Kossovo are perfect examples.


  56. waldensianspirit
    56 | August 21, 2013 1:20 pm

    Detroit Now Officially In Third-World Territory, 50K Stray Dogs Roaming Deserted Streets…

    Horror! And going to get worse! In the United States!


  57. 57 | August 21, 2013 1:21 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    We should have burned Afghanistan down to the ground, then sown their fields with salt

    Yup!


  58. Guggi
    58 | August 21, 2013 1:25 pm

    Since postmodernism rejects metaphysic – an integral part of Christianity and Judaism – Judaism and Christianity are attacked BUT NOT Islam because Islam has no metaphysic.


  59. 59 | August 21, 2013 1:25 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Poor puppies.


  60. 60 | August 21, 2013 1:26 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    Since postmodernism rejects metaphysic — an integral part of Christianity and Judaism — Judaism and Christianity are attacked BUT NOT Islam because Islam has no metaphysic.

    That is avery good point.


  61. 61 | August 21, 2013 1:33 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    How do Conservatives plan to slove it and what can the government do about it?

    TYhe first and maybe only thing that can be done is to make it socially unacceptable to have a child out of wedlock. The way things were in this country until the ’60s generation came on the stage. The ’60s Generation have done more to sdestroy this country than all the Communists in the KGB. Take back education. That is the worst place our forebears have fallen down. The Left were permitted to obtain near iron grip on the educational system, and they taught a public morality that was diameterically opposed to what this country had been built on. Now people are afraid to speak of public morality unless it is to praise the Leftists who have “lifted” us beyond such things. In 1950 half of the murderers in the United States weren’t black males between the ages of 15-35. That is a modern development and a consequence of millions of people making bad chioces, but it is a societal plauge that dare not be named. People complain that you are getting “preachy” if you say “Only have the children you can afford to raise”. As if their complaints held the same societal worth as those that they complain against. I kno wyou are personally opposed to any concept of public morality, but you simply can’t get away from it. By ceeding the field for the last 40 years all Conservatives have managed to do is let the Left define the Public Morality for the nation, and they aren’t done with it yet. The debate over gay marriage is a debate about the public morality that will be accepted in the United States. It is one where the Left is utterly opposed to the common public morality that has been the bedrock of all human civilizations for all of recorded history. They are doing it essentially because they are opposed to anything that is normal in life. In Slayer’s Fictional Reality there is a line:

    Everything that’s done today must be tomorrow’s curse

    That sums up the philosophy of the Left perfectly. They want change for the sake of change. What Conservatives have traditionally done is resist this kind of change. You need a reason to make a change in the way society operates. For the Left, the real reason is that they know their changes are poison to the society and that desire to poison the society. Why do you think all the Liberals are silent abou tthe black on black homicide rate? More black men are killed every year by other black men than were killed by whites in lynchings in the entire Jim Crow Era. You’d think that that might attract attention, but the only thing the black “leadership” does is point to it and say we need more gun control. I honestly don’t think that they’d mind race-based gun control where you explicitly forbade blacks from having guns. That is, to a large degree, how things operate in New York City and there is no bitching about racial “red lining” for gun permits.


  62. 62 | August 21, 2013 1:38 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    This is not by accident. Detroit is the kind of society that the Left wants to create. Everything that they have done and are doing is to bring Detroit-like destruction to the rest of the States. Look wherever the Left holds sway, and you will see the same factors eating at society. This isn’t a coincidence. The Left are not stupid. They are very cunning. They are creating the environment that they want, which is a Third World life for the Untermenchen that populate most of society, but a rich, First World lifestyle for the Elites. They think if things get bad enough, the masses will demand that they, the Elite, become Dictators to take care of the very problems that they have caused. It is a long-term plan fo rthe destruction of America and the West. They are farther along the path in Europe, but we are heading that way to. At over a trillion dollars a year in deficit spending to break our economy. Our economy is fundamentally stong, but it can’t sustain this level of spending forever.


  63. Speranza
    63 | August 21, 2013 1:41 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Detroit Now Officially In Third-World Territory, 50K Stray Dogs Roaming Deserted Streets…
    Horror! And going to get worse! In the United States!

    Feral animals have been roaming Detroit’s burned out abandoned neighborhoods for some time now.


  64. Guggi
    65 | August 21, 2013 1:47 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Since many postmodern ideas have become part of the (school/university) curriculum I don’t see how you can stop this.

    CRT (Critical Race Theory) where color-blindness is equated with racism is on the curriculum of most law schools. Since more than a decade every lawyer, every prosecutor and every judge has been indoctrinated with this racism.


  65. 66 | August 21, 2013 2:00 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    You are talking about a societal change. The government can’t do nothing about it, hence why should a politician use derogatory rhetroic towards single woman that just turns them off? Politicians are not holy men, it should up to faith based isntitutions to make this societal change.

    As for taking back the educational system, I am with you there.


  66. Tanker
    67 | August 21, 2013 2:14 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    You are talking about a societal change. The government can’t do nothing about it, hence why should a politician use derogatory rhetroic towards single woman that just turns them off? Politicians are not holy men, it should up to faith based isntitutions to make this societal change.
    As for taking back the educational system, I am with you there.

    You want to stop or make it harder for this societal problem, we need to stop funding their lifestyle. The biggest destruction to the Black family has been welfare and all the trappings that go along with it. The welfare system threw the fathers out of the home for them to get help. The help was supposed to be a temporary support system. When the father was required to not be part of the family it became a lifestyle with little to no desire to get out of it! Then the benefits increased with each additional child (all out of wedlock), and we wonder what when wrong! I call BS, they don’t wonder what went wrong. They designed it be this way. Created the modern day plantation which the Dems and moderates get to oversee!


  67. buzzsawmonkey
    68 | August 21, 2013 2:20 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    TYhe first and maybe only thing that can be done is to make it socially unacceptable to have a child out of wedlock. The way things were in this country until the ’60s generation came on the stage.

    Baby-mama-hood is now very trendy among upper-middle-class women.

    The women who have gone through college and bought into the have-it-all philosophy go into careers, and in many cases view men as either competition, stepping-stones, or recreation. The bias in favor of “diversity” means that the pool of white men on fast career track is shrinking, too—and, of course, a have-it-all woman doesn’t want to marry “down.”

    So they don’t get married—and then, despite having bought into “biology is not destiny,” they wake up in their late ’30s to the fact that biology is, in one sense, destiny after all; that the one quintessentially female thing they can do in their lives will be forever denied them if they don’t act soon.

    And another baby-mama is created—a baby-mama with money and privilege, but a baby-mama nonetheless, who will be a single woman raising a child. She will expect deference for her “courageous decision,” but will be assured of having likely barred herself from ever acquiring a spouse; the successful men who are her contemporaries will be shopping for trophy wives, and she will have to get an underemployed house-husband who will be nothing like a traditional male authority figure.


  68. 69 | August 21, 2013 2:22 pm

    @ Tanker:

    I am against the welfare state. That is a more effective line of reasoning than lecturing on how evil Single Mothers are. People can relate with money and don’t like to be preached.


  69. 70 | August 21, 2013 2:23 pm

    Jesse Jackson’s tweet about the “thrill kill” of Chris Lane….

    Praying for the family of Chris Lane. This senseless violence is frowned upon and the justice system must prevail.

    “Frowned upon”? Fucking asshole.


  70. buzzsawmonkey
    71 | August 21, 2013 2:24 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    He’s taking the perpetrators to “tsk.”


  71. buzzsawmonkey
    72 | August 21, 2013 2:25 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    Notice that while he says “the justice system must prevail,” he has a different opinion about the verdict in the Zimmerman case.


  72. Guggi
    73 | August 21, 2013 2:31 pm

    @ Tanker:

    couldn’t agree more


  73. 74 | August 21, 2013 2:31 pm

    buzzsawmonkey wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    Notice that while he says “the justice system must prevail,” he has a different opinion about the verdict in the Zimmerman case.

    Yeah, they’re still calling for DoJ action, but in this case I’m sure some community service and a fine for “hunting out of season” would suffice.

    Obama’s going to have to comment on this one, the Aussies are understandably upset. He’s probably working up some crocodile tears as we speak……


  74. waldensianspirit
    75 | August 21, 2013 2:34 pm

    Unfortunately the Australian former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer is blaming the NRA; not the culture of indifference to sanctity of life.

    Three Teens Who Could Look Like Obama’s Son Murder Australian Man, NRA Gets Blamed


  75. waldensianspirit
    76 | August 21, 2013 2:36 pm

    @ MacDuff:
    They give Obama a pass; it is all NRA’s fault

    I suppose death by knife or club would be considered differently


  76. Tanker
    77 | August 21, 2013 2:37 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Tanker:
    I am against the welfare state. That is a more effective line of reasoning than lecturing on how evil Single Mothers are. People can relate with money and don’t like to be preached.

    Way before your time, in the early to mid-sixties the strongest family unit in NC although mainly poorer were the Black families. I watched all that change in real time over the years. Sad on many levels! Also they tended to be the most religious group! Although not very popular in the day I grew up in a small racially diverse Baptist church where my Dad was the pastor! Very conservative and we looked after as many families black or white as possible. Faith based welfare if you will!


  77. buzzsawmonkey
    78 | August 21, 2013 2:38 pm

    Back to the thread topic, more or less:

    Erekat: US stabbed Israel in the back to get us to agree to talks.

    Erekat revealed, in an interview with the Nazareth-based Arabic language A-Shams radio station on Tuesday, that the PA would not have returned to the negotiating table with Israel had it not received a letter of assurances from the United States, guaranteeing its main negotiating preconditions. Erekat said in the interview that the U.S. had assured the PA in writing that talks would recognize the indefensible pre-1967 borders as the basis of a Palestinian state, would deal with all core issues (Jerusalem, refugees, borders, security and water), would take place within six to nine months and would not allow for any interim solutions before a final status agreement is signed.


  78. MikeA
    79 | August 21, 2013 2:44 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    The perps where 15, 16 and 17. It is already illegal for them to obtain a firearm. What does he want, us to make it more illegal.

    Maybe we could put those GUN FREE ZONE placards around. That would fix it.


  79. buzzsawmonkey
    80 | August 21, 2013 2:46 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    Unfortunately the Australian former deputy prime minister Tim Fischer is blaming the NRA; not the culture of indifference to sanctity of life.

    I’m NRA You Hate, I Am
    —apologies to Herman’s Hermits, and “I’m Henry the Eighth, I Am”

    I’m NRA you hate, I am
    NRA you hate, I am, I am
    I own guns and I want to buy more
    You keep asking what I need ‘em for
    But thanks to the Second Amendment (Amendment!)
    It’s none of your business what I need (Indeed!)
    Whether for sport or personal defendment
    NRA you hate I a-a-a-a-am
    NRA you hate I am

    Second verse, same as the first!
    A little bit louder, and a little bit worse!

    I’m NRA you hate, I am
    NRA you hate, I am, I am
    I own guns and I want to buy more
    You keep asking what I need ‘em for
    But thanks to the Second Amendment (Amendment!)
    It’s none of your business what I need (Indeed!)
    Whether for sport or personal defendment
    NRA you hate I a-a-a-a-am
    NRA you hate I am


  80. 81 | August 21, 2013 2:49 pm

    MikeA wrote:

    The perps where 15, 16 and 17. It is already illegal for them to obtain a firearm. What does he want, us to make it more illegal.

    Look, don’t disturb the developing meme with facts, OK?


  81. RIX
    82 | August 21, 2013 2:54 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    MikeA wrote:

    The perps where 15, 16 and 17. It is already illegal for them to obtain a firearm. What does he want, us to make it more illegal.

    Look, don’t disturb the developing meme with facts, OK?

    Come on now. These three poor yoots were despondent over the cessation of Midnight basketball.
    It’s all Whiteys fault!


  82. 83 | August 21, 2013 2:55 pm

    @ buzzsawmonkey:

    There is no doubt that kids in single-parent homes start off with a strike against them. The people who say otherwise are simply ignoring reality. They aren’t irretrievably lost, but they will have difficulties that children with two parents (dare I say of opposite sexes?) do not generally have. What is worse is that society seems to be encouraging this behavior. The kind of behavior that is rewarded is the kind of behavior that will be emulated. The destrction of the Family as the unit of society has been most pronounced in the black community, where upwards of eighty percent of the births are to unwed mothers, but these pathologies aren’t constrained by race.


  83. buzzsawmonkey
    84 | August 21, 2013 2:57 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    The destrction of the Family as the unit of society has been most pronounced in the black community, where upwards of eighty percent of the births are to unwed mothers, but these pathologies aren’t constrained by race.

    And, of course, since “family” has now been re-defined as “anything your little heart desires,” the destruction can proceed at accelerated pace. Which is, of course, the reason for the Cloward-Piven push for “marriage” by a movement dedicated to its destruction.


  84. darkwords
    85 | August 21, 2013 3:00 pm

    @ 78 buzzsawmonkey:

    obama wants to mouth off about the violence in Egypt but not in Gaza? One would think he has choosen sides.

    It is folly for Israel to continue to rely on old thinking to make future progress. They need to state their borders and stick to them. Not give them up for a muslim fakeout that the POTUS falls for. Open up Egypt to Gaza, make that a world wide effort. All else is just a subterfuge for eliminating the Jewish state.

    At the anvil cloud thinking level all these hot air politicians get their brainwaves washed over in complacency and political correctness. One of the foundations of political correctness should be that Israel should exist. Another one should be that Islam should not be advocating violence against jews for any reason. It is easy enough for Obama to make that statement in the UN and start to support it through actions. If he can’t do that then Kerry has no reason for leaving the US borders. Ineffectives.


  85. RIX
    86 | August 21, 2013 3:09 pm

    Rev Jesse Jackson Sr @RevJJackson

    Praying for the family of Chris Lane. This senseless violence is frowned upon and the justice system must prevail.
    10:02 AM – 21 Aug 2013

    ht Twitchy
    Well alrighty then. Jesse is on record with a totally strong response.
    See how he condemns violence perpetrated by YOUNG BLACK MALES!/


  86. Guggi
    87 | August 21, 2013 3:16 pm

    Postmodernism and Democracy

    Postmodernists say democracy is the only form of government which can be destroyed by its own rules because freedom and equality are limited (constitution, where your own freedom Ends at the boundaries of your neighbor’s freedom). They define democracy with a literally translation to “the rule of the people” but neither in ancient Greece nor the modern democracy is defined this way and no one claims that democracy is a perfect form of government (Churchill: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”)

    They know about the weakness of the democracy and they use this weakness explicit to destroy democracy. But with what will it be replaced ?

    With a messianic and vague promise that there will be a total/radical democracy where every single local narrative of history and philosophy will be included – some kind of “über”-philosophy (yes this is similar to Nietzsches “über”-human) with a hospitality so great that we can’t imagine it because it extends all boundaries. Of course there is no longer the sovereignity of a state we all live in an “über”-state or “one world”-state.

    But: they know very well that the “über”-philosophy would be a contradiction to their own saying because it would postulate a consens and consens is rejected in postmodernism.

    This is the sh*t you have to deal with.


  87. Speranza
    88 | August 21, 2013 3:19 pm

    I have a Chris Lane thread later today.


  88. Guggi
    89 | August 21, 2013 3:24 pm

    @ Guggi:

    They don’t know how this totalitarian/radical democracy not when it will come and they can’t dertermine it but first we have to destroy our working democracies.

    Postmodern philosophers are NOT philosophers but criminals masquaraded as philosophers.


  89. Guggi
    90 | August 21, 2013 3:26 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    @ Guggi:

    They don’t know how this totalitarian/radical democracy not when it will come and they can’t dertermine it but first we have to destroy our working democracies.

    Postmodern philosophers are NOT philosophers but criminals masquaraded as philosophers.

    They don’t know how this totalitarian/radical democracy will look like….


  90. lobo91
    91 | August 21, 2013 3:32 pm

    MikeA wrote:

    @ waldensianspirit:
    The perps where 15, 16 and 17. It is already illegal for them to obtain a firearm. What does he want, us to make it more illegal.
    Maybe we could put those GUN FREE ZONE placards around. That would fix it.

    The same thing happened after Columbine. The perps weren’t old enough to buy the guns they used (and, in fact, didn’t buy them–they used a “straw purchaser to get them). Those are federal felonies. They brought guns onto school grounds. More federal crimes. And then there’s the matter of the bombs they brought with them. Someone analyzed it once and determined that they could have been charged with something like 41 federal crimes before they fired the first shot.

    Not sure how you make it “more illegal” than that, or how you can blame the NRA.


  91. 92 | August 21, 2013 3:37 pm

    @ Tanker:

    I do support Faith Based assistance.


  92. 93 | August 21, 2013 3:37 pm

    @ lobo91:

    The NRA is a boogey man for the anti-gun crowd.


  93. 94 | August 21, 2013 3:38 pm

    New Thread.


  94. Guggi
    95 | August 21, 2013 3:40 pm

    Postmodernism and ethics:

    Ethics and values no longer exist because they are based on either metaphysic or positive natural law or consensus. Postmodernism rejects all of them so we have to destroy ethics (and replace it with esthetics like Foucault did ? Wouldn’t that be the same what the National Socialists did ?) and values and are promised a new ethics and new values based on chaos theory since chaos theory has solved some problems of quantum mechanics it can also solve the ethics and values problem. They don’t know how this ethics will look like and what kind of values this should be but we have to destroy our working ethics and values first and chaos theory will solve the problems eventually in the future (or so).


  95. Tanker
    96 | August 21, 2013 3:41 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Not sure how you make it “more illegal” than that, or how you can blame the NRA.

    There you go with that fact and logic BS again! You know the SWHTF spreading that around! //


  96. 97 | August 21, 2013 3:46 pm

    @ RIX:

    Frowned upon is not equal to condemned. Jesse Jackoson is catagorically refusing to condemn the murder of a white man by black “youths”.


  97. lobo91
    98 | August 21, 2013 3:51 pm

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Frowned upon is not equal to condemned. Jesse Jackoson is catagorically refusing to condemn the murder of a white man by black “youths”.

    He “frowns upon” it because it tends to make blacks look bad.

    He doesn’t actually give a crap about the victim.


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