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Who are these people who still think that Israel is the root of Middle East problems?

by Speranza ( 155 Comments › )
Filed under Anti-semitism, Islam, Israel, Leftist-Islamic Alliance, Palestinians, Sharia (Islamic Law), Syria at September 5th, 2013 - 4:00 pm

One of the more pernicious memes that the diplomatic community has adopted over the years is that Israel-Palestine is the key to Middle East peace and tranquility. The events of the past two years have given lie to that sacred belief. However with people such as our not very intelligent Secretary of State John Kerry wasting their time trying to broker a “peace” between the civilized (Israel) and the uncivilized “Palestine” the end result we see is the gas attacks in Damascus, which have absolutely nothing to do with “Palestine”. I am surprised that the usually reliably Israel hating “The Independent” allowed this column to be published.

by Dominic Lawson

Forget the massacre of thousands in Syria and Egypt, whether by chemical weapons or more conventional methods of mass slaughter. The Middle Eastern issue galvanising some of our musical mega-stars and their followers, even now, is the treatment by Israel of Palestinians. A fortnight ago the violinist Nigel Kennedy told the audience at a Proms concert that Israel should “get rid of apartheid” – his tendentious reference to the treatment of the Arab minority within that country.

Kennedy’s remarks were cheered by many in the audience at the Royal Albert Hall, but the BBC cut them from its later television broadcast of the concert, allegedly following a complaint by Lady Deech, a former governor of the corporation. The London-based Palestine Solidarity Campaign fizzed into action, declaring that “ suppressing free speech and political dissent is the norm for state broadcasters under dictatorships. It is worrying when we start to see this kind of suppression being practiced by our own state broadcaster.”

This remarkable suggestion that the BBC was acting as state censor on behalf of government (rather than merely demonstrating its own determination not to see its great music festival turned into a platform for contentious political slogans) is an example of how the state of Israel makes so many people lose all sense of perspective.

So it goes with Pink Floyd’s Roger Waters who immediately issued a call to arms “to my colleagues in rock’n’roll” over the treatment given to “my brother Nigel Kennedy.” Waters denounced “one Baroness Deech (née Fraenkel), who disputed the fact that Israel is an apartheid state”. What’s with the “née Fraenkel”? Presumably this is the rock star’s way of letting us know that Deech is – aha! – a Jew. Enough said – although Waters did go on to say: “I have many very close Jewish friends”.

Perhaps some of those friends – whether or not they adhere to Jewish dietary laws – might be tiring of his latest porcine stunt, in which Pink Floyd’s pig balloon is imprinted with a Star of David before being “symbolically” shot down. With a delightful irony, this active boycotter of all things Israeli is now himself facing calls to be boycotted, from the admittedly small Jewish population of Dusseldorf, which German city is Waters’ next destination on his current tour.

You might dismiss this as completely irrelevant to the slaughter on the streets of Damascus – and in any rational sense it is – were it not for the fact that the Syrian Free Press, one of Bashar-Al Assad’s propaganda outlets, has been extolling Waters in recent weeks (when not too busy claiming that the murder of hundreds of children by Sarin nerve gas was actually organised by the CIA on behalf of Israel).

Given the longstanding iconography of anti-Semitism within the Middle East, it is perhaps not surprising that when regimes in the region feel threatened by their own people, they immediately seek to blame the insurrection on Israel or “the Jews”. When the wave of popular uprisings sometimes known as “the Arab Spring” reached Syria, Damascus’s envoy in London went on BBC’s Newsnight to tell a clearly startled Jeremy Paxman that “ the Israelis could be behind it…they could be behind any bad thing in the world.”

Actually, the Israeli government was most discomfited by the uprisings in the region, rather preferring the dictators it knew to the possibility of Islamist regimes in their place. It is Israeli citizens who are now stampeding for gas masks, not those of the US, in preparation for what might follow if President Obama does unleash part of America’s vast arsenal in the direction of sites believed to hold Assad’s chemical weapons.

It is true that Israel in 2007 sent eight fighter jets laden with 17 tons of high explosives to demolish the Dair Alzour site in Syria, which the International Atomic Energy Authority has since concluded was the base of a “gas cooled graphite moderated nuclear reactor not configured to produce electricity…built with the assistance of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.” [.......]

[...........] In many cases, the origins of the problems go back to the death of the prophet Mohamed, and the split between the followers who believed his successor should be appointed under Arab tribal tradition –later known as the Sunni – and those who insisted his successor should be from his family, and nominated Mohamed’s cousin and son-in-law Ali – the group which became known as Shia muslims.

In certain Arab countries, power had been held for generations by the Sunni, even while a majority of the population might have been Shia. This was the case in Iraq, where a sectarian civil war was precipitated by the disastrously misconceived US invasion. The opposite is true of Syria, a majority Sunni country, yet ruled by Alawites, a branch of the Shia.  [.........]

This tribal and sectarian dispute, which has the potential to become the Muslim equivalent of the Thirty Years War, has about as much to do with Israel as did the conflict between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland. And the peoples involved care very little, if at all, about the fate of the Palestinians – certainly much less than do Nigel Kennedy and Roger Waters.

Yet some western governments still fall for the bizarre idea that if the dispute between Israel and the Palestinians were to be sorted, then this would help to solve all the other conflicts in the region. Thus the French foreign minister Laurent Fabius declared last week, following a meeting with the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas: “The Israeli-Palestinian issue is …perhaps the central issue of the region.”

[........] But, in the midst of the conflagrations in Egypt and Syria, it does bring to mind the remark of the late French ambassador in London, Daniel Bernard, who in 2001 delivered himself of the view that “all the current troubles in the world are because of that shitty little country Israel.”

[........]

I think I made a similar point on this page over six years ago – but unfortunately this is the last of my columns for The Independent. To those readers who have enjoyed reading them as much as I did writing them, I’m sorry to desert you; to those who did not – you can calm down now.

Read the rest -  So who still thinks Israel is the root of Middle East problems?

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155 Responses to “Who are these people who still think that Israel is the root of Middle East problems?”
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  1. 1 | September 5, 2013 4:19 pm

    So who still thinks Israel is the root of Middle East problems?

    Dennis “Justin” Raimondo.


  2. Speranza
    2 | September 5, 2013 4:21 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    So who still thinks Israel is the root of Middle East problems?

    Dennis “Justin” Raimondo.

    The New York Times.


  3. Speranza
    3 | September 5, 2013 4:22 pm

    Laurent Fabius declared last week, following a meeting with the Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas: “The Israeli-Palestinian issue is …perhaps the central issue of the region.”

    I am so sick of that bull shit mantra.


  4. 4 | September 5, 2013 4:24 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Taki, Pat Buchanan and that whole crew.


  5. coldwarrior
    5 | September 5, 2013 4:24 pm

    we cant even accurately identify the enemy.

    pathetic


  6. Speranza
    6 | September 5, 2013 4:24 pm

    Bill O’Reilly thinks that John McCain is infallible.


  7. 7 | September 5, 2013 4:24 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Islam is the problem in the Mideast. Israel could convert to Catholic or Buddhist tomorrow and the Muzz would still hate them.


  8. Speranza
    8 | September 5, 2013 4:25 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Taki, Pat Buchanan and that whole crew.

    Most of Britain.


  9. 9 | September 5, 2013 4:25 pm

    coldwarrior wrote:

    we cant even accurately identify the enemy.
    pathetic

    Exactly, the Israel-Pali problem is just one front in a bigger struggle. Islam is the enemy.


  10. 10 | September 5, 2013 4:26 pm

    @ Speranza:

    LGF, MSNBC, Daily Kos.


  11. Speranza
    11 | September 5, 2013 4:26 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    Islam is the problem in the Mideast. Israel could convert to Catholic or Buddhist tomorrow and the Muzz would still hate them.

    Actually most Muslim converts (or “reverts” as they are referred to by other Muslims) are more militant than those born into the Religion of Peace.


  12. Speranza
    12 | September 5, 2013 4:26 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Speranza:
    LGF, MSNBC, Daily Kos.

    LGF has become really bad on that issue. CJ tries to avoid it.


  13. Speranza
    13 | September 5, 2013 4:27 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    Exactly, the Israel-Pali problem is just one front in a bigger struggle. Islam is the enemy.

    There really isn’t an Israeli-Pali problem. There is a problem between the Arabs and the Israelis.


  14. Speranza
    14 | September 5, 2013 4:32 pm

    This tribal and sectarian dispute, which has the potential to become the Muslim equivalent of the Thirty Years War, has about as much to do with Israel as did the conflict between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland.

    Well put!


  15. The Osprey
    15 | September 5, 2013 4:33 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Bill O’Reilly thinks that John McCain is infallible.

    Allah Ackbar, my friends!


  16. 16 | September 5, 2013 4:34 pm

    @ The Osprey:
    @ Speranza:

    Bill O’Reilly is an ignorant man.


  17. 17 | September 5, 2013 4:35 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    That means Thank God!
    ////


  18. The Osprey
    18 | September 5, 2013 4:38 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ The Osprey:

    That means Thank God!
    ////

    If it weren’t so pathetic it would be funny.


  19. The Osprey
    19 | September 5, 2013 4:42 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    This tribal and sectarian dispute, which has the potential to become the Muslim equivalent of the Thirty Years War, has about as much to do with Israel as did the conflict between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland.

    Well put!

    Me father was a Shiite man, me mother she was Sunni!

    Some how I don’t think they are going to solve this with some Guinness and a seisiún.


  20. Speranza
    20 | September 5, 2013 4:44 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    Speranza wrote:
    Bill O’Reilly thinks that John McCain is infallible.

    Allah Ackbar, my friends!

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ The Osprey:
    @ Speranza:
    Bill O’Reilly is an ignorant man.

    He is not nearly as smart as he claims to be. He also likes to bully women.


  21. 21 | September 5, 2013 4:44 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    McCain voted for Obama, I am convinced.


  22. Speranza
    22 | September 5, 2013 4:46 pm

    @ The Osprey:
    Now that is funny! “My friends”.


  23. Speranza
    23 | September 5, 2013 4:46 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ The Osprey:
    McCain voted for Obama, I am convinced.

    I am convinced his daughter and her two boobs voted for Obama.


  24. heysoos
    24 | September 5, 2013 4:54 pm

    lucky me I could care less…
    I’m more concerned about the Cowboys winning their opener…
    unless O’Reily is the Gints qb, I don’t give a fuck


  25. Guggi
    25 | September 5, 2013 4:55 pm

    What happened to Kerry’s face ? I was shocked he looks like a zombie-horse.


  26. heysoos
    26 | September 5, 2013 4:56 pm

    if you honestly believe that tv media is an enemy, the least you can do is quit supporting it


  27. heysoos
    27 | September 5, 2013 4:57 pm

    coming up to the Talking Heads Gossip Hour…line up


  28. The Osprey
    28 | September 5, 2013 5:02 pm

    Heysoos, Guggi, Speranza, y’all need to get a personalized avatar…when the three of you are on it is sometimes hard to tell you apart except for Speranza’s which reminds me of The People’s Cube’s “beet of the week” award.


  29. mawskrat
    29 | September 5, 2013 5:09 pm

    and over at Mother Jones the far right and the far left meet

    angry-young-white Moderator 23 hours ago

    Yet another Zionist pig comes out in support of an attack upon one of Israel’s rivals.

    Flag

    xThoughtCriminalx and 11 more liked this

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/09/sheldon-adelson-president-obama-bombing-syria


  30. 30 | September 5, 2013 5:17 pm

    @ Guggi:

    No Botox.


  31. yenta-fada
    31 | September 5, 2013 5:20 pm

    The issue of energy pipelines from Russia’s GAZPROM to the warm water port in Syria is behind a lot of other-than-religious wrangling.

    “Way too much evidence is showing that it was the Saudis who have supplied the rebels with chemical weapons not Assad. So why are the Saudis intent upon getting rid of Assad? The Saudis are planning together with Qatar a pipeline, which will run from the Gulf to Turkey. This will result in the Russian Gazprom having competition for the important European market. Currently, Russia controls all Gas into Europe.

    Qatar has supported Syrian Rebels with $3 billion as well. Why have the Saudis and Qatar teamed up against Syria? Because Assad is blocking the pipeline and that protects the European market for the Russians. So as long as there is Assad in Syria, this pipeline will not be built because Russia wants to prevent this competition absolutely.”


  32. 32 | September 5, 2013 5:22 pm

    mawskrat wrote:

    and over at Mother Jones the far right and the far left meet

    angry-young-white Moderator 23 hours ago

    Yet another Zionist pig comes out in support of an attack upon one of Israel’s rivals.

    Flag

    xThoughtCriminalx and 11 more liked this

    http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/09/sheldon-adelson-president-obama-bombing-syria

    Barring a mushroom cloud or a massive pile of rubble in an American city, lions lying down with lambs offends my senses. Then again, maybe it’s just me………


  33. The Osprey
    33 | September 5, 2013 5:23 pm

    @ yenta-fada:

    Andrea Shea King and Elizabeth Letchworth were talking about this last night on ASK’s Blogtalk Radio show.


  34. yenta-fada
    34 | September 5, 2013 5:23 pm

    @ yenta-fada:

    In other words, resource and trade wars drive the hodge podge of rivals. Another way to look at things that rarely gets discussed in the MSM.


  35. lobo91
    35 | September 5, 2013 5:24 pm

    Senate To Vote On Aiding Al-Qaeda With Airstrikes Against Syria On . . . 9/11?…

    Rep. John Culberson, R-Texas, told reporters Thursday that House leaders expect the Senate to vote on the Syria resolution on Sept. 11.

    Reading an email off his phone from his chief of staff, Culberson indicated that Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., thinks the Senate will vote on the Syria resolution next Wednesday.

    While the House may not always have the best idea of what is going on in the Senate, “Cantor expects the Senate to vote on 9/11,” Culberson said, parroting the guidance email.

    While the Sept. 11 anniversary might seem like a curious day to hold the vote, Culberson thought it was fitting.

    “How could it be any clearer? That’s the perfect day to do it,” Culberson said. “They need to defeat it to honor the victims of 9/11 and we will not give aid and comfort to al-Qaida and the psychopaths that carried out the 9/11 attacks.”


  36. yenta-fada
    36 | September 5, 2013 5:24 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:
    Andrea Shea King and Elizabeth Letchworth were talking about this last night on ASK’s Blogtalk Radio show.

    Interesting. What is ASK?


  37. yenta-fada
    37 | September 5, 2013 5:26 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Great. Now we are truly down the rabbit hole/up a tree.


  38. yenta-fada
    38 | September 5, 2013 5:30 pm

    Sultan Knish affirms Rodan’s POV.

    “Iran knows that Obama isn’t trying to bomb Syria because he really believes that WMD use is a red line. Its leaders know that the proposed attacks, like the arms being supplied to the rebels, are part of Obama’s support for the Sunni opposition at the behest of the Sunni oil states who have a death grip on Washington.

    The message from the attacks won’t be that America takes human rights atrocities seriously. Sudan, Rwanda and countless other genocides make a mockery of that. The message will be that the Saudis can still call in the United States Air Force and Navy to clear the way for their regional objectives.”


  39. 39 | September 5, 2013 5:31 pm

    Currently, Russia controls all Gas into Europe.

    No they don’t.


  40. yenta-fada
    40 | September 5, 2013 5:31 pm

    yenta-fada wrote:

    The Osprey wrote:
    @ yenta-fada:
    Andrea Shea King and Elizabeth Letchworth were talking about this last night on ASK’s Blogtalk Radio show.
    Interesting. What is ASK?

    Better question. Who is Andrea Shea King? Does she get MSM face time
    anywhere?


  41. yenta-fada
    41 | September 5, 2013 5:32 pm

    Mike C. wrote:

    Currently, Russia controls all Gas into Europe.
    No they don’t.

    Please elucidate. (Sorry to hear about your foot)


  42. waldensianspirit
    42 | September 5, 2013 5:36 pm

    Rick Santorum opposes Syria resolution

    “There are no good outcomes here. An al Qaeda-run Syria is no better than an Assad-Iran-Hezbollah-run Syria. What is happening there is tragic, but it is not in the United States’ best interest to intervene with a military strike. I urge my former colleagues in the House and Senate to defeat any measure calling for the use of force in Syria.”


  43. waldensianspirit
  44. 44 | September 5, 2013 5:39 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Wow.


  45. waldensianspirit
    45 | September 5, 2013 5:44 pm

    ACLU, NRA and the Heritage Foundation getting together against NSA?

    Look how Obama can bring people together


  46. 46 | September 5, 2013 5:45 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Glad he came to his sense. He was another one of those lets invade Syria types. Just stay out and let them at it. Syria is the Islamic Thunderdome!


  47. lobo91
    47 | September 5, 2013 5:45 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    ACLU, NRA and the Heritage Foundation getting together against NSA?
    Look how Obama can bring people together

    Exactly. He campaigned in 2008 on being a “uniter, not a divider.”

    He’s finally accomplished his goal, although probably not the way he intended.


  48. 48 | September 5, 2013 5:46 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Hey he kept one promise!

    :lol:


  49. 49 | September 5, 2013 5:47 pm

    @ lobo91:

    He’s united Left and Right against him.


  50. waldensianspirit
    50 | September 5, 2013 5:47 pm

    @ Goldwaterite:
    Maybe some Pennsylvania folks around him gave him an ear full


  51. 52 | September 5, 2013 5:48 pm

    @ yenta-fada:

    He’s right.


  52. heysoos
    53 | September 5, 2013 5:49 pm

    fear so strong you can smell it…
    Russia is mopping the floor with this admin
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/05/first-on-cnn-russians-turned-down-again/


  53. 54 | September 5, 2013 5:50 pm

    @ waldensianspirit:

    Yeah I think some of these Republicans who have flipped on Syria did so because of the public outcry.


  54. Guggi
    55 | September 5, 2013 5:52 pm

    China just showed O. the finger. They’ll vote in the security council with Russia against a military intervention in Syria.


  55. waldensianspirit
    56 | September 5, 2013 5:52 pm

    @ yenta-fada:
    Photographer skilfully captured the moment!


  56. yenta-fada
    57 | September 5, 2013 5:53 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ waldensianspirit:
    Yeah I think some of these Republicans who have flipped on Syria did so because of the public outcry.

    I would sincerely like to believe that is the case. It is entirely possible that people, whatever their affiliation, don’t want another war in the ME.


  57. waldensianspirit
    58 | September 5, 2013 5:53 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    fear so strong you can smell it…

    Among the RINO’s


  58. heysoos
    59 | September 5, 2013 5:54 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    fear so strong you can smell it…
    Among the RINO’s

    BO is getting pounded, beat to shit


  59. The Osprey
    60 | September 5, 2013 5:55 pm

    yenta-fada wrote:

    The Osprey wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:
    Andrea Shea King and Elizabeth Letchworth were talking about this last night on ASK’s Blogtalk Radio show.

    Interesting. What is ASK?

    That’s her initials!

    She use to work for one of the big three tv networks back in the day as a reporter
    on NASA/space stuff. She lives on the space coast. She’s one of the big wheels at Tea Party Express.
    Does a blog talk radio show. She was denounced by CJ for something, so I started following her.


  60. 61 | September 5, 2013 6:01 pm

    @ yenta-fada:

    What i like is that many Americans are realizing the Saudis call shots.


  61. heysoos
    62 | September 5, 2013 6:07 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:
    What i like is that many Americans are realizing the Saudis call shots.

    fine for now…in twenty years they won’t exist


  62. Speranza
    63 | September 5, 2013 6:09 pm

    Munich Olympics Massacre Memorial Plans Are Unveiled
    41 years ago today.
    I guess they were from the wrong country and the wrong religion.


  63. Speranza
    64 | September 5, 2013 6:10 pm

    Guggi wrote:

    China just showed O. the finger. They’ll vote in the security council with Russia against a military intervention in Syria.

    All the countries he sucked up to are giving him the finger. I don’t think the prestige of the United States has fallen so low since the Carter years.


  64. Speranza
    65 | September 5, 2013 6:12 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    Speranza

    I got to figure out how to get an avatar.


  65. yenta-fada
    66 | September 5, 2013 6:13 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Happy New Year to you and any lurkers who are Jewish.


  66. yenta-fada
    67 | September 5, 2013 6:15 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:
    What i like is that many Americans are realizing the Saudis call shots.

    I don’t know that Sultan Knish is representative of many Americans. However, you are right that this is finally showing up.


  67. lobo91
    68 | September 5, 2013 6:15 pm

    Oh My: Even OFA Doesn’t Want To Touch Obama’s Syria Train Wreck…

    The director of President Obama’s political arm, Organizing for Action, confirmed to supporters that the group will not lobby on the president’s behalf in the debate over whether the U.S. should strike Syria.

    OFA Executive Director Jon Carson acknowledged in a conference call Tuesday that many of the group’s volunteers have raised the issue of Syria since Obama over the weekend announced that he would seek congressional authorization for the strike. But OFA, Obama’s most potent lobbying apparatus, has decided to sit out the Syria debate, Carson said.

    There was speculation that OFA, which has mobilized millions of supporters and volunteers on Obama’s behalf on issues ranging from immigration to gun control, wasn’t being used to lobby for an intervention in Syria because so many of Obama’s liberal supporters object to his taking military action in another Middle Eastern country, as does most of the general public.


  68. The Osprey
    69 | September 5, 2013 6:15 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    The Osprey wrote:

    Speranza

    I got to figure out how to get an avatar.

    Use the email and password use for your blogmoc account to create and account here, then upload pics.
    http://en.gravatar.com/


  69. yenta-fada
    70 | September 5, 2013 6:16 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    Thanks. :-)


  70. The Osprey
    71 | September 5, 2013 6:18 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:

    What i like is that many Americans are realizing the Saudis call shots.

    Didn’t we used to call them “Oil Ticks” over at Chucky’s place, back in the day?

    I guess that would be considered RAAAAACIST now by Chuckster.


  71. heysoos
    72 | September 5, 2013 6:21 pm

    @ The Osprey:
    call them whatever you want…their historic manipulation of American govt’s is nothing less than astonishing


  72. 73 | September 5, 2013 6:21 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    Didn’t we used to call them “Oil Ticks” over at Chucky’s place, back in the day?

    I guess that would be considered RAAAAACIST now by Chuckster.

    Ticks got “rights” now? :D


  73. coldwarrior
    74 | September 5, 2013 6:21 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    got the didge from here

    i got the drone going, now to get the circular breathing down


  74. The Osprey
    75 | September 5, 2013 6:22 pm

    yenta-fada wrote:

    @ The Osprey:

    Thanks.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/askshow

    http://RadioPatriot.wordpress.com/


  75. The Osprey
    76 | September 5, 2013 6:23 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ The Osprey:
    call them whatever you want…their historic manipulation of American govt’s is nothing less than astonishing

    They’ve manipulated a lot of Western governments…starting with the Brits. Blame it on Harold St. John Bridger Philby. Kim’s dad.


  76. 77 | September 5, 2013 6:24 pm

    @ yenta-fada:

    I have seen in many forums and talking with people anger at the Saudis.


  77. 78 | September 5, 2013 6:25 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    Charles would ban anyone who criticizes Arabs.


  78. 79 | September 5, 2013 6:26 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    @ The Osprey:
    call them whatever you want…their historic manipulation of American govt’s is nothing less than astonishing

    Manipulation is their forte! They can’t fight and they’re neither productive or inventive and they cant’t even figure out how to profit on their natural resources without Western assistance…..bullshit is their schtick.


  79. heysoos
    80 | September 5, 2013 6:27 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    @ The Osprey:
    call them whatever you want…their historic manipulation of American govt’s is nothing less than astonishing

    They’ve manipulated a lot of Western governments…starting with the Brits. Blame it on Harold St. John Bridger Philby. Kim’s dad.

    I’m not blaming anybody…if the west chooses to enrich the KSA while they use that money against us, that’s our problem


  80. 81 | September 5, 2013 6:29 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ yenta-fada:

    I have seen in many forums and talking with people anger at the Saudis.

    The Saudis were always considered a “necessary evil” with anyone with a few firing synapses, now the “evil” part of that is becoming more conspicuous.


  81. heysoos
    82 | September 5, 2013 6:30 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    heysoos wrote:
    @ The Osprey:
    call them whatever you want…their historic manipulation of American govt’s is nothing less than astonishing

    Manipulation is their forte! They can’t fight and they’re neither productive or inventive and they cant’t even figure out how to profit on their natural resources without Western assistance…..bullshit is their schtick.

    so?…money is money
    complain all you want, but they are alot smarter than we are


  82. 83 | September 5, 2013 6:31 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    People despise them.


  83. Speranza
    84 | September 5, 2013 6:38 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    The Saudis were always considered a “necessary evil” with anyone with a few firing synapses, now the “evil” part of that is becoming more conspicuous.

    That was obvious on 9/11/01.


  84. heysoos
    85 | September 5, 2013 6:46 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    MacDuff wrote:
    The Saudis were always considered a “necessary evil” with anyone with a few firing synapses, now the “evil” part of that is becoming more conspicuous.
    That was obvious on 9/11/01.

    and our response?…
    buy more oil
    the KSA is not the problem, we are


  85. heysoos
    86 | September 5, 2013 6:50 pm

    do you blame the smack dealer for your addiction?
    do you blame Jack Daniels for you alcoholism?
    do you blame the Cubs when a ticket is $30?


  86. yenta-fada
    87 | September 5, 2013 6:53 pm

    The Past, the Present and the Future all walked into a bar at the same time.

    It was tense.


  87. yenta-fada
    88 | September 5, 2013 6:56 pm

    @ heysoos:

    I’m not going to engage in debate with you. I do disagree. Dinner time here.
    I don’t think the Chinese/Europeans/Americans act differently wrt resources. Everyone wants what they want. Do not conflate governments with their people.


  88. Da_Beerfreak
    89 | September 5, 2013 6:58 pm

    @ yenta-fada:
    Punny, very punny. :lol:


  89. yenta-fada
    90 | September 5, 2013 6:58 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Goldwaterite wrote:
    @ yenta-fada:
    I have seen in many forums and talking with people anger at the Saudis.
    The Saudis were always considered a “necessary evil” with anyone with a few firing synapses, now the “evil” part of that is becoming more conspicuous.

    Comparing Islamic countries with ‘normal’ ones is an exercise in futility.


  90. heysoos
    91 | September 5, 2013 6:59 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    People despise them.

    despise them all you want, along with the Red Chinese, they own us…
    you have to question the motives of the people in govt that set up these alliances…the problem, therefor the solution is within


  91. 92 | September 5, 2013 7:07 pm

    @ heysoos:

    You know I have called out both parties for selling this nation out to the Saudis.


  92. Speranza
    93 | September 5, 2013 7:08 pm

    If she were alive I wonder which side Helen Thomas (yemach shomo va’zichro) would be on -- Assad’s or the rebels? I guess since she was a nominal Christian she would back Assad.


  93. Speranza
    94 | September 5, 2013 7:08 pm

    Has any one noticed that the odious Shepard Smith tends to editorialize when he gives the news? Never mind!


  94. Speranza
    95 | September 5, 2013 7:09 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    You know I have called out both parties for selling this nation out to the Saudis.

    What political family is a wholly owned subsidiary of the House of Saud?


  95. Speranza
    96 | September 5, 2013 7:10 pm

    yenta-fada wrote:

    Comparing Islamic countries with ‘normal’ ones is an exercise in futility.

    They (Islamic countries) don’t think as we do. (Classic understatement).


  96. heysoos
    97 | September 5, 2013 7:11 pm

    energy, (even failed companies can make millions) is the currency of growth and power…we had a harsh taste of gas shortages in the early 70′s…after all that time, why is there no practical, long range program to become more self sustained?…look to the feds and follow the money…the best interests of the voters is secondary…the KSA are not the only ones making billions


  97. Speranza
    98 | September 5, 2013 7:11 pm

    MacDuff wrote:

    Manipulation is their forte! They can’t fight and they’re neither productive or inventive and they cant’t even figure out how to profit on their natural resources without Western assistance…..bullshit is their schtick.

    The Saudi attitude has always been “Let’s you and him fight”.


  98. heysoos
    99 | September 5, 2013 7:12 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    You know I have called out both parties for selling this nation out to the Saudis.

    I do…you are about the only person here that I agree with…talk about an uphill fight


  99. eaglesoars
    100 | September 5, 2013 7:15 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    There was speculation that OFA, which has mobilized millions of supporters and volunteers on Obama’s behalf

    What utter crap. Of the last three rallies they’ve the largest turnout they gotwas 6 people.


  100. The Osprey
    101 | September 5, 2013 7:36 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ heysoos:
    You know I have called out both parties for selling this nation out to the Saudis.

    What political family is a wholly owned subsidiary of the House of Saud?

    Los Arbustos!


  101. The Osprey
    102 | September 5, 2013 7:39 pm

    It’s the Onion. What can I say. :lol:


  102. The Osprey
  103. 104 | September 5, 2013 7:47 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Los Arboles!

    :wink:


  104. 105 | September 5, 2013 7:48 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    You are right as well! I guess it was a dialectical difference. ALthough you are more correct. Damn my Dominican slang!

    :lol:


  105. coldwarrior
    106 | September 5, 2013 7:48 pm

    The Osprey wrote:

    How is your congresscritter voting on Syria?

    mine are no’s (kelly and rothfus)


  106. lobo91
    107 | September 5, 2013 7:51 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    Interesting.

    Mine is in the undecided camp, apparently.

    I’m surprised to see that Mike Coffman is voting yes, though. He always seemed smarter than that.


  107. The Osprey
    108 | September 5, 2013 8:02 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ The Osprey:

    You are right as well! I guess it was a dialectical difference. ALthough you are more correct. Damn my Dominican slang!

    Isn’t arbusto literally bush or shrub, and arboles means trees?

    I seem to remember the Bush family had an oil exploration company in Texas called Arbusto Energy.


  108. waldensianspirit
    109 | September 5, 2013 8:03 pm

    @ lobo91:
    Are there any missile components built in his neck of the woods?


  109. rain of lead
    110 | September 5, 2013 8:03 pm

    @ coldwarrior:
    my reps are good solid no’s

    my senators (spit) are f’ing rinos (corker and alexander)
    are firm yes’s

    beer of choice tonight is this amazing brew http://thefullpint.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/sweetwater-ipa.jpg


  110. 111 | September 5, 2013 8:05 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    You are correct than me. I was just using the Dominican slang. But yes, Arbusto means Bush.


  111. 112 | September 5, 2013 8:05 pm

    Getting a Football thread going.


  112. heysoos
    113 | September 5, 2013 8:07 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    Getting a Football thread going.

    close now…very close bro


  113. The Osprey
    114 | September 5, 2013 8:08 pm

    rain of lead wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    my reps are good solid no’s

    my senators (spit) are f’ing rinos (corker and alexander)
    are firm yes’s

    beer of choice tonight is this amazing brew http://thefullpint.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/sweetwater-ipa.jpg

    All our congresscritters in AZ, GOP or DEM are leaning no, but both our Rep Senators are yes…McCain and his poodle. :mad:


  114. 115 | September 5, 2013 8:09 pm

    It’s up.


  115. lobo91
    116 | September 5, 2013 8:10 pm

    waldensianspirit wrote:

    @ lobo91:
    Are there any missile components built in his neck of the woods?

    Coffman’s? Not any that I’m aware of.

    He’s a Marine reservist, though, and has served in Iraq.


  116. rain of lead
    117 | September 5, 2013 8:11 pm

    saw where the whip count is at 217, one short of a majority
    Obombya is looking at making a national address to make his case for war


  117. 118 | September 5, 2013 8:12 pm

    @ The Osprey:

    My Friend!


  118. rain of lead
    119 | September 5, 2013 8:16 pm

    holy crap, no one could have seen this coming ///

    The woman whose opinion lawmakers are relying on to go to war in Syria is also a paid advocate for the war-torn country’s rebels.
    On Wednesday, Secretary of State John Kerry encouraged members of the House of Representatives to read a Wall Street Journal op-ed by 26-year-old Elizabeth O’Bagy — an analyst with the Institute for the Study of War — who asserted that concerns about extremists dominating among the Syrian rebels are unfounded.

    “Contrary to many media accounts, the war in Syria is not being waged entirely, or even predominantly, by dangerous Islamists and al-Qaida die-hards,” O’Bagy wrote for the Journal on Aug. 30. “Moderate opposition groups make up the majority of actual fighting forces,” she wrote.

    But in addition to her work for the Institute for the Study of War, O’Bagy is also the political director for the Syrian Emergency Task Force (SETF), a group that advocates within the United States for Syria’s rebels — a fact that the Journal did not disclose in O’Bagy’s piece.


  119. The Osprey
    120 | September 5, 2013 8:20 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ The Osprey:

    My Friend!

    Thank God for my friends! :lol:


  120. coldwarrior
    121 | September 5, 2013 8:24 pm

    rain of lead wrote:

    But in addition to her work for the Institute for the Study of War, O’Bagy is also the political director for the Syrian Emergency Task Force (SETF), a group that advocates within the United States for Syria’s rebels — a fact that the Journal did not disclose in O’Bagy’s piece.

    of course.


  121. rain of lead
    122 | September 5, 2013 8:27 pm

    @ coldwarrior:

    caught that did ya.


  122. lobo91
    123 | September 5, 2013 8:37 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    She’s been on FNC several times recently, too.


  123. 124 | September 5, 2013 8:53 pm

    @ rain of lead:
    Got a link?


  124. darkwords
    125 | September 5, 2013 8:57 pm

    @ 29 mawskrat: Good defense. I left a post but not sure if disqus picked it up. Why is someone anti Semitic today?

    In the US they are most likely of low IQ or full or hate. outside the US it is probably religious or cultural indoctrination that goes by unquestioned. American leaders should assume they have the responsibility to raise the question.

    Look at Jimmy Carter. What caused his anti Jewish thoughts? He has one screwed up mind.


  125. darkwords
    126 | September 5, 2013 9:02 pm

    @ 31 yenta-fada: That would make Obama a dupe. We wouldn’t want that….


  126. lobo91
    127 | September 5, 2013 9:03 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    The really interesting thing is that she’s previously taken the opposite position. Here’s a quote from her that was printed in the NY Times:

    “My sense is that there are no seculars,” said Elizabeth O’Bagy, of the Institute for the Study of War, who has made numerous trips to Syria in recent months to interview rebel commanders.


  127. darkwords
    128 | September 5, 2013 9:08 pm

    @ 53 heysoos: That is how big wars start.


  128. waldensianspirit
    129 | September 5, 2013 9:12 pm

    Rep. Alan Grayson: Syria Intelligence Manipulated
    Heehee! You git ‘im, Grayson! :mrgreen:


  129. lobo91
    130 | September 5, 2013 9:13 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    The plot thickens: O’Bagy apparently also organized McCain’s visit to Syria:

    A shocking report from pan-Arab TV station Al-Jadeed reveals America’s Republican Senator, John McCain, visited kidnappers of Lebanese pilgrims.

    Elizabeth O’Bagy, political director for the “Syrian Emergency Task Force” and , a U.S.-based nonprofit providing support to the opposition, allegedly organised the visit which brought McCain just half a mile inside Syria on Monday 27 May.

    The 76 year-old notoriously hawkish senator is particularly famous for singing a song consisting of the words “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.”

    In one meeting inside the Syrian border at the Bab al-Salameh border border crossing, he held talks with Asifat al-Shamal (Northern Storm Brigade), which controls the crossing. Asifat al-Shamal is one of countless militant groups which make up the much reported “Free Syrian Army”, a term which has becoming increasingly redundant as sectarianism, religious extremism and Al-Qaeda ideology become the norm.

    In Elizabeth O’Bagy’s own Twitter commentary, she announced that McCain was hosted by the Asifat al-Shamal Brigade and met twenty “commanders” in total.


  130. rain of lead
    131 | September 5, 2013 9:18 pm

    @ lobo91:
    indeed


  131. lobo91
    132 | September 5, 2013 9:20 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    There’s something seriously fishy going on here.


  132. rain of lead
  133. rain of lead
    134 | September 5, 2013 9:24 pm

    @ lobo91:

    yup stinks like 3day old fish


  134. 135 | September 5, 2013 9:26 pm

    heysoos wrote:

    fine for now…in twenty years they won’t exist


  135. lobo91
    136 | September 5, 2013 9:27 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    Too bad we don’t have an intelligence agency that could have discovered these various articles online.
    //


  136. rain of lead
    137 | September 5, 2013 9:27 pm

    I think this wins best tweet of the day

    I’m picturing Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld sticking a daisy in the barrel of John Kerry’s M-16


  137. rain of lead
    138 | September 5, 2013 9:29 pm

    @ lobo91:

    I heard a rumor of an all knowing internet program that our congresscritters might look into.

    it’s called…..umm…er…google?


  138. lobo91
    139 | September 5, 2013 9:29 pm

    Three Russian Warships En Route To Mediterranean, Near Syrian Coast…

    Three Russian warships crossed Turkey’s Bosphorus Strait Thursday en route to the eastern Mediterranean, near the Syrian coast, amid concern in the region over potential US-led strikes in response to the Damascus regime’s alleged use of chemical weapons.

    The SSV-201 intelligence ship Priazovye, accompanied by the two landing ships Minsk and Novocherkassk passed through the Bosphorus known as the Istanbul strait that separates Asia from Europe, an AFP photographer reported.

    The Priazovye on Sunday started its voyage from its home port of Sevastopol in Ukraine “to the appointed region of military service in the eastern Mediterranean”, a military official told the Interfax news agency.


  139. RIX
    140 | September 5, 2013 9:30 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ rain of lead:

    There’s something seriously fishy going on here.

    Yup, they have the proof, but dang it, they just cant’t show you.
    But hey, has he ever lied to you?/


  140. lobo91
    141 | September 5, 2013 9:30 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    I think that’s too advanced for them.


  141. lobo91
    142 | September 5, 2013 9:31 pm

    @ RIX:

    But hey, has he ever lied to you?/

    Define “ever.”

    If you mean “in the last 3 minutes,” then probably not.


  142. rain of lead
    143 | September 5, 2013 9:32 pm

    ok this is just fucked up

    Texas GOP Rep. John Culberson thinks that the Senate may hold its vote on the Syria resolution next Wednesday — the 12th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

    http://twitchy.com/2013/09/05/rep-john-culberson-senate-may-vote-on-syria-resolution-on-911/


  143. rain of lead
    144 | September 5, 2013 9:34 pm

    @ lobo91:

    Russian and American navys floating around in the ssame small pond?

    nah, no chance of ANYTHING going wrong there.


  144. RIX
    145 | September 5, 2013 9:35 pm

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ RIX:

    But hey, has he ever lied to you?/

    Define “ever.”

    If you mean “in the last 3 minutes,” then probably not.

    Ok, you have a point.


  145. darkwords
    146 | September 5, 2013 9:36 pm

    L.N. Smithee ‏@LNSmithee 58m
    Hay-Zeus! You’d think this was the coronation of The Royal Baby or something. Take it down a notch, @NFL. #Broncos #Ravens


  146. rain of lead
    147 | September 5, 2013 9:37 pm

    @ rain of lead:

    “How could it be any clearer? That’s the perfect day to do it,” Culberson said. “They need to defeat it to honor the victims of 9/11 and we will not give aid and comfort to al-Qaida and the psychopaths that carried out the 9/11 attacks.”

    Wait, we’re gonna vote on arming al-Qaeda connected rebels in #Syria on 9/11? America, you crazy son of a bitch.

    Unbelievable: On the 12th anniversary of 9/11 we may be voting to militarily help the perpetrators of 9/11. #Syria

    Senate vote on Syria, which will aid Al-Qaeda’s efforts, to be held on 9/11, the 12th anniversary of Al-Qaeda’s WTC attack.

    You are kidding..right? About Congress voting on Syria on 9/11? No way..

    A vote on Syria on 9/11 … what could possibly go wrong ??

    yeah, I think they are rubbing our noses in it


  147. darkwords
    148 | September 5, 2013 9:37 pm

    @ 139 lobo91: They are probably going to lob missiles tit for tat at the rebels.


  148. 149 | September 5, 2013 9:40 pm

    @ rain of lead:
    @ darkwords:

    Russia moving ships near Syria to evacuate Russians if needed

    They probably think that the US might decapitate Assad then the Regime crumbles. Although if they lob a few Missiles at ISIS, more power to them.


  149. 150 | September 5, 2013 9:41 pm

    The Football thread is an open. Just saying.


  150. waldensianspirit
    152 | September 5, 2013 9:47 pm

    @ lobo91:
    Wierd how he does that when the law has the IRS powered up to improve morale


  151. rain of lead
    153 | September 5, 2013 9:47 pm

    Right Wing News emailed right-of-center bloggers and asked them to answer two questions about potential military action in Syria. The following 46 bloggers responded.

    http://www.rightwingnews.com/bloggers-select/poll-results-conservative-bloggers-tea-partiers-overwhelmingly-oppose-bombing-syria/


  152. rain of lead
    154 | September 5, 2013 9:49 pm

    @ lobo91:

    just saw that
    Tennessee is one of those :(

    if I hear any I’ll let you know


  153. rain of lead
    155 | September 5, 2013 9:53 pm

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahah
    Rush’s new book is at #1 on amazon a month before it comes out

    http://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-books-Amazon/zgbs/books/ref=zg_bsnr_tab_t_bs

    bwahahahahahah

    the lefties are pissed

    http://twitchy.com/2013/09/05/rush-revere-and-the-brave-pilgrims-limbaugh-pens-new-childrens-book/


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