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Republican Establishment plays their voters again: George H W Bush attends a Gay Wedding

by Rodan ( 150 Comments › )
Filed under George W. Bush, Progressives, Republican Party at September 27th, 2013 - 8:00 am

BushGaywedding

I personally could care less that George H. W. Bush was a witness at a Gay wedding. These were adults he was friends with and he had every right to show support. What irks me is that Poppy Bush made the Republican Party Social issue centric. He moved the party away from its traditional focus on Economic issues and made  the Culture War (Murphy Brown, Family Values) the focus of the party. This was done for cynical reasons to cover up his Progressive economic polices. The result was that the GOP lost for a generation it’s old Northeastern and Upper Midwestern suburban stronghold.

Poppy’s son took a page from his father and in the 2004 campaign used opposition Gay Marriage to whip up the Social Conservative base. Although at the time it was electorally successful, the vitriol and hate directed at Gays by segments of the Republican Party created a backlash that now most Americans support Gay Marriage. Even worse, George W Bush now refuses to speak out against Gay Marriage. His wife and daughters support Gay Marriage and in this context it is no surprise that his Father approves of Gay Marriage. George H. W. Bush served as a witness at a Gay Marriage between 2 female friends of theirs in Maine.

(Reuters) – Former President George H.W. Bush and his wife, Barbara, were the official witnesses of a same-sex marriage between two women in Maine over the weekend, a spokesman said on Wednesday.

The former first couple witnessed the private ceremony on Saturday in Kennebunk between Bonnie Clement and Helen Thorgalsen, according to Jim McGrath, a Bush spokesman.

Clement posted a photograph on her Facebook page of President Bush signing a piece of paper as the couple, close friends of the Bushes, watched and held champagne glasses.

The couple owns H.B. Provisions, a general store in Kennebunk, Maine. The former president owns a compound in Kennebunkport, about four miles (six km) east of Kennebunk.

Maine is one of 13 states that allows gay marriage.

Like I said earlier in the thread I could cares less Poppy Bush was at a Gay Wedding, that’s his business and congrats to the couple. This is not a Social Conservative vs. Libertarian thread either. My issue is that Poppy attending a Gay Wedding is that it is indicative of the Republican Establishment’s cynical use of social issues. They could care less about gays or abortion, they just use the issues to manipulate Republican voters to support them. They are playing Republican voters for suckers and using the rhetoric to keep control over the Party.

My advise to my Social Conservative allies, don’t fall for red meat social issue rhetoric. Mr. Family Values himself was a witness at a gay Wedding, which should proof at how phoney these GOP Establishment types are on these issues. The reality is, there is nothing these politician can do on these issues, it’s ruse to deceive well meaning voters.

 

 

 

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150 Responses to “Republican Establishment plays their voters again: George H W Bush attends a Gay Wedding”
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  1. rain of lead
  2. 2 | September 27, 2013 8:27 am

    They could care less about gays or abortion, they just use the issues to manipulate Republican voters to support them.

    On that I agree with you. The Establishment Republicans are not, for the most part, interested in pushing a real Republican agenda. It isn’t limited to the politics of abortion and gay marriage. As I frequently point out, the GOP has zero record of repealling gun control legislation. They don’tusually vote for it, because they know it is a loser position, but when they have th eoppertunity to repeal it they do not. They do push for lower taxes. Bush got his tax cut through, and that is one reason the Economy wasn’t much worse during his tenure. We had just blown a bubble stock market when he took office, and then there was the economic damage of 9-11 (it was huge. Something like a trillion dollars was just vaporized on 9-11 when you look at its reverberations through the economy). But lower taxes are it. Regulations weren’t scaled back during the Bush Administration, though he was less regulation happy than Obama. This is why we have seen a constant march Leftward on most issues despite who is in control of the Legislature or the Presidency. We keep “compromising”, but to a Democrat “compromise” means they don’t get their entire wish-list at once, but they give nothing up. Again, going to gun control, Reagan signed into law the Volkner-McClure Act, the so-called “Gunowner’s Protection Act”. This is a rather Orwellian name, because one of the things it did was forbid the manufacture of civilian-leagle automatic weapons. Mind you, no civilian-legal automatic weapon has ever been used in aa crime. Still, this was supposed to be the absolute ed for gun control legislation, hence the name. In reality, they came back for so-called “Assault Weaons” in only about four years. The so-called “Gun Show Loophole” was a compromise that enabled them to get the Brady Law through the Congress. Now they are coming back for that. This is why I say that we shouldn’t compromise on gun control at all. The Second Amendment exists, and is the strongest worded amendment in the Bill of Rights. “Shall not be infringed” means exactly what it says, and those who are pushing for its infringement are in truth fighting for the ability to violate the civil rights of all Americans.


  3. MikeA
    3 | September 27, 2013 8:32 am

    Word of warning, this is some details of the Kenyan Mall attack. It seems they did a lot of the same things they did in Beslan, etc…

    WARNING: Some graphic descriptions.


  4. rain of lead
    4 | September 27, 2013 8:34 am

    @ MikeA:

    evil Mf’ers do evil
    sick but not surprising


  5. 5 | September 27, 2013 8:35 am

    @ rain of lead:

    Most of my immediat family lives in South Carolina, and they are not fans of Lindsey Graham. My mother, especially, despises his push for war for al Qaeda in Syria. We should not, ever, be fighting on the side of al Qaeda. To do so is a breach of trust with the American people. We justified allying with Stalin during the Second World War as a means to end Hitler’s brutal regiem. Well and good, that probably was the correct thing to do. But Assad isn’t Hitler, and the Syrian Civil War isn’t World War Two. Allying with al Qaeda to overthrow Assad is insanity. We are shipping machineguns to al Qaeda in Syria. It is only a matter of time before those weapons are used in an act of terrorism against the United States or Israel. Indeed,many of them will probably find their way back to the United States to be used against our civilians by criminals. Al Qaeda and the Taliban are big segments of the heroin trade. The same people that smuggle heroin can smuggle guns. Onc these guns are in the hands of al Qaeda in Syria, we lose control over where they’ll be and how they’ll be used in the future. Just as we did with Fast and Furious. I can’t stress enough Obama’s rank hypocrisy on gun control. He wants background checks to keep MArtha Stewart from buying a .22, but has no problem giving real weapons of war to al Qaeda.


  6. 6 | September 27, 2013 8:44 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Morning!

    I think after the backstabbing of Cruz, many on the Right are realizing the con game the Establishment is playing.


  7. rain of lead
    7 | September 27, 2013 8:45 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    sigh
    so very true


  8. rain of lead
    8 | September 27, 2013 8:49 am

    hey are any of you guys getting a popup from sitemeter
    I’m getting one on this machine and on momcats laptop

    any ideas on how to kill it

    it asks do you want to open or save analytics.js from a.sitemeter.com


  9. 9 | September 27, 2013 8:54 am

    @ rain of lead:

    It’s Islam. Terrorism is what they do. The consider all nin-Muslims to be sub-human. In that, they are very much like the Nazis. In a lot of ways, Islami is a lot like Nazism. It isn’t so much a corporate Statist doctrine as it is a theocratic Statists doctrine. They don’t care who owns the means of production or even if there are means of production, but they want control of everybody’s religious faith. If they were into peaceful persuasion, this wouldn’t be an issue, but they are into violent confrontation, yet another way they are like the Nazis.


  10. MikeA
    10 | September 27, 2013 8:59 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I doubt you will see any of this mentioned in the MSM since it will show just how depraved they are. It doesn’t fit the narrative.


  11. 11 | September 27, 2013 9:02 am

    @ Goldwaterite:

    Cruz definately spoke for the base. I, myself, actually think the thing to do is let ObamaCare be implemented. Let the people suffer as they will, and hold ut ot them the Promise of Repeal if they simply vote for the Republicans. That’ll hold the House and might get the Senate next go around. There’s no guarantee on the Senate. I think it’ll be closer than it is today, but we’ll just have to see what pickups we get. I expect to get all the open seats. The question is whether we’ll be able to knock off a few incumbants. I think we have to net a total of 6 votes. Thereare, IIRC, three open seats, which leave us trying to knock off three seated Senators. Incumbancy is an awfully big hammer. The incumbant usually wins. It takes either screw-ups by the incumbant or a big, overwhelming national issue to knock off incumbants. I think we can, if we will, turn ObamaCare into that big national issue. That is essentially what the Tea Party did in 2010.


  12. 12 | September 27, 2013 9:05 am

    @ MikeA:

    No, it doesn’t. We heard almost nothing about the bombing in Pakistan the other day, and that killed something like 60-70 Pakistani Christians. We simply ignore the massive violence comig out of the Islamic community. This is a mistake. We ought to be broadcasting their atrocities to the world, that the world could see how incompatible with civilization Islam is. If you got rid of Islam, 90% of the wold’s conflicts would cease. It probably wouldn’t quiet be Peace on Earth, but it’d be a whole hell of a lot less violence.


  13. 13 | September 27, 2013 9:07 am

    @ MikeA:

    It’s just like media twisted Cruz’s Senate speech into one that just talked about Dr. Seuss. They distort things to create their narrative.


  14. 14 | September 27, 2013 9:17 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    They distort things to create their narrative.

    It is what they d, for the most part. “Journalists” are really Propagandists. They select their stories for propaganda value, and push the political narrative for their side. This is one of the reasons why it is never big news when someone in America uses a gun in self-defense, even if they stop something as atrocious as an attempted mass shooting. It simply isn’t the story that the American Media want told. If they were against gun control, every self-defense use of a firearm would mearit a headline. Take the Zimmerman case as a point of referrence. This was clearly, frm the outset, an act of self-defense. Everybody knwew this. But that wasn’t the story that the race-hustlers and the news media wanted told. NBC went so far as to fabricate “evidence” that Zimmerman was a racist. This isn’t the first time NBC has been caught fabricating a story. They had an agenda to push against Zimmerman. They were an active part of the prosecution.


  15. 15 | September 27, 2013 9:21 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    We live in a soft turning hard dictatorship.


  16. 16 | September 27, 2013 9:25 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ MikeA:
    It’s just like media twisted Cruz’s Senate speech into one that just talked about Dr. Seuss. They distort things to create their narrative.

    One of the things that prompted me to write my article about Dr. Seuss was my recent watching of the Lorax with my nephew. While watching it I started to cringe at the environmentalism in it, not because the environmental message bothered me, but because how much the Marxists have compromised that message.

    Like I said in my article, Dr. Seuss was not Socialist or Marxist, he genuinely cared about the environment and he genuinely cared about people. But because of the overwhelming infiltration of Marxists into the environmentalist movement those who did not know Dr. Seuss are now being led to believe that he was both a Socialist and a Marxist.

    This is rather similar to what Poppy Bush did to the Republican Brand. By being a RINO and POTUS he led many to believe that Poppy was representative of the Republican Base.


  17. Speranza
    17 | September 27, 2013 9:28 am

    1. Good for GHWB for not being afraid to attend a “gay marriage” or whatever they call it
    2. Rodan is right -- all they give you is meaningless rhetoric
    3, The Republicn Party cannot, and would not even if they could -- make abortion a criminal act.


  18. 18 | September 27, 2013 9:29 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    “Journalists” are really Propagandists. They select their stories for propaganda value, and push the political narrative for their side.

    Which is exactly the reason that they buried the 2 million Biker 9/11 Rally. Giving that story the nation wide coverage that it deserved would have done catastrophic damage to their narrative and agenda.


  19. 19 | September 27, 2013 9:29 am

    @ Goldwaterite:

    We’re definately headed that way. We’ve been moving in that direction ever since the end of the Reagan Administration. They have to disarm us before they can get too hard, though. That really is the critical path we face. They have to disarms us to curtail our fredoms. You simply cannot oppress an armed populace the way Stalin oppressed the Russians. I am not sure where we are going to go on gun control. All polls aside, by the way people vote most people have had enough of the gun control issue. They may be able to get Constitutionally questionable legislations through the States (New York and Colorado, for example), but in Colorado the voters have already signaled their strong disapproval of the issue. We’ll see what happens. Just owning a gun doesn’t mean you won’t be oppressed. I’d say that the NSA spying is th next most important issue we face. They are collecting data on the American people, and I don’t trust how they are going to use that data. They can track your day to day movements with metadata, track your purchases (unless you deal in cash only), and so on. Nobody is safe in such a surveillance society.


  20. 20 | September 27, 2013 9:33 am

    @ doriangrey:

    This is rather similar to what Poppy Bush did to the Republican Brand. By being a RINO and POTUS he led many to believe that Poppy was representative of the Republican Base.

    Poppy in 92 by running on Murphy Brown, Family Values, School Prayer and Human Life Amendment ran as a caricature of what the Left claims Conservatives are. By playing this role, Poppy destroyed the GOP in many parts of the country. His son did the same thing with the Gay Marriage issue, it was cynical ploy that although at the time worked, actually strengthened the Gay Marriage movement. Now Poppy is at a Gay marriage.

    I’m being honest, Republican voters are being played big time.


  21. 21 | September 27, 2013 9:33 am

    Speranza wrote:

    1. Good for GHWB for not being afraid to attend a “gay marriage” or whatever they call it
    2. Rodan is right — all they give you is meaningless rhetoric
    3, The Republicn Party cannot, and would not even if they could — make abortion a criminal act.

    It’s just manipulation of Republican voters. The Bush family thrives on this and sadly many Republican voters fall for this crap.


  22. 22 | September 27, 2013 9:35 am

    Speranza wrote:

    The Republicn Party cannot, and would not even if they could — make abortion a criminal act.

    Depends on what you mean there. In Texas they have made it a criminal act to abort babies aftter 20 weeks of gestation. I think if we tried we could make such a law nationwide. Aborting a viable baby is murder. Period. Now, the Party Mandarins probably wouldn’t like to see it go nationwide, but the option is there. I think you could also get parental notification laws in place. There are restictions short of an outright prohibition on abortion that are doable. You say that they can’t criminalize it all, so why bother? There are many restrictions that you can place on abortion, even in the framework of Roe v. Wade, and there’s always the hope that we can get Roe overturned and abortion policy be moved back to the States. There is a lot we can do on the issue.


  23. 23 | September 27, 2013 9:36 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    ’d say that the NSA spying is th next most important issue we face. They are collecting data on the American people, and I don’t trust how they are going to use that data. They can track your day to day movements with metadata, track your purchases (unless you deal in cash only), and so on. Nobody is safe in such a surveillance society.

    Many on the Left are against this as well


  24. 24 | September 27, 2013 9:38 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    The 20 week ban has the support of many Pro-Choice types. But you will never get a majority of Americans to support a ban on abortions in the case of rape. That is not going to happen.

    Don’t believe the rhetoric of the GOP on this issue, they are lying to you. Many of those same politicians who talk about throwing abortion doctors in jail would get an abortion for their daughters or sisters if they were raped.


  25. RIX
    25 | September 27, 2013 9:44 am

    @ Goldwaterite:
    ait until people start deling with the Obama Care “Navigators”
    They will be mining peronal data and they have not had criminal background checks come from organizations like the SEIU, Acorn offshoots and Planned Parenhood.
    What could go wrong?


  26. Guggi
    26 | September 27, 2013 9:46 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Austria has accepted 500 Syrian refugees. All of them are Christians. We let the Syrian Patriarch of Vienna make the decision who will be allowed to come to Austria :-)


  27. 27 | September 27, 2013 9:47 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    But you will never get a majority of Americans to support a ban on abortions in the case of rape.

    Again, just because you can’t get totally what you would like to see (and I am not in favor of forcing a woman to carry a childof rape, but I would council her to do so; the child did not harm her. The child’s father did), doesn’t mean you can’t incrementally get there. Abortion is not an absolute right. If I argued for the Second Amendment in the manner the pro-abortionst argue for abortion, we’ve be fighting about whether or not the Federal government had to subsidize my personal main battle tank.

    It is really a fallicy to argue that since youy can’t getthe most extreme extreme of what you desire that you should surrender entirely. You call out the extreme case and argue as though that were the only case. That is quite simply wrong.


  28. 28 | September 27, 2013 9:50 am

    @ Guggi:

    Good! That is the kind of immigration we need to support. Let’s face it. Christians are severly persecuted if they live in a Muslim Majority State. Changing the State is really not possible. Muslim Majorities strongly favor oppressing non-Muslims. This attitude is not going to change. Getting the hell out of Dodge is about the ony sane answer for Christians in Muslim lands. It is “ethnic” cleansing. Make no mistake about that. But it is “ethnic” cleansing that the world community, including the United States, approves of.


  29. 29 | September 27, 2013 9:58 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Why not just get a 20 week ban, cut off funding, get parental notification and declare victory? This is a toxic issue which has really damaged the GOP the last 20 years. Get restrictions and cut off funding, then call it a day. There are other more important issues than this.


  30. Guggi
    30 | September 27, 2013 10:00 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Why not just get a 20 week ban, cut off funding, get parental notification and declare victory? This is a toxic issue which has really damaged the GOP the last 20 years. Get restrictions and cut off funding, then call it a day. There are other more important issues than this.

    Good idea.


  31. Guggi
    31 | September 27, 2013 10:02 am

    Muslim Persecution of Christians: July, 2013

    On July 4th, the day after the Egyptian military liberated the nation of Muslim Brotherhood rule, Christian Copts were immediately scapegoated and targeted. All Islamist leaders—from Brotherhood supreme leader Muhammad Badi, to Egyptian-born al-Qaeda leader Ayman Zawahiri, to top Sunni cleric Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi—made it a point to single out Egypt’s Copts as being especially instrumental in the ousting of former Islamist president Morsi, ushering in a month of pogroms against the nation’s Christian minority.

    Among other things in July, unprecedented numbers of Christian churches were attacked, plundered, desecrated, and torched. According to one Egyptian human rights lawyer, “82 churches, many of which were from the 5th century, were attacked by pro-Morsi supporters in just two days.” Al-Qaeda’s flag was raised above some churches; anti-Christian graffiti littered the sides of other churches and Coptic homes. Due to extreme anti-Christian sentiment, many churches ceased holding worship services until recently. Dozens of Coptic homes and businesses were also attacked, looted, and torched.

    In the Sinai, a young Coptic priest was shot dead in front of his church, while the body of Magdy Lam’i Habib, a Copt, was found mutilated and beheaded. Four other Christians were slaughtered by Muslims in Luxor province. Whole towns and villages have been emptied of Copts, including more than 100 Christian families from El Arish in the terror-infested Sinai.

    Due to the many death threats to Coptic Pope Tawadros II, for a time he left the papal residence at St. Mark Cathedral—which was earlier savagely attacked, when Morsi was still president—and temporarily ceased holding services.

    The rest of July’s roundup of Muslim persecution of Christians around the world includes (but is not limited to) the following accounts, listed by theme and country in alphabetical order, not according to severity:

    (…)


  32. 32 | September 27, 2013 10:04 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    There are other more important issues than this.

    I agree, but there is more that we can and should get. Parental notifcation laws are a must. A minor can’t get a tattoo (even with their parent’s permission), but they can have an abortion? This makes sense how? We are never going to get a human life amendment, probably, but we might could get Roe v Wade overturned. Not with the current Supreme Court, bbut that is an important issue to vet Presidential candidates on. Roe is bad law. Even Ginsberg acknowledges that the Court overstepped its bounds there. Overturn Roe and kick it back to the States. It’s an imperfect solution, but it should be our goal.


  33. 33 | September 27, 2013 10:04 am

    Choosing Barabbas.


  34. 34 | September 27, 2013 10:08 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I just want this issue out of the way.


  35. 35 | September 27, 2013 10:13 am

    @ Guggi:

    It’s been 40 years of this issue and honestly with a stagnant economy and declining wages that is my main concern.


  36. 36 | September 27, 2013 10:30 am

    @ Goldwaterite:

    That is simply not going to happen. The pro-life side is not the extremist side. That Wendy Davis is proof of that. She filibustered a law that prohibits the execution of premature babies. It is hard to get more radical than staking out a pro-infanticide position. The only thing that is going to get this issue “out of the way” is to overturn Roe. That sends the matter back to the states, where it really is more appropriate to deal with this kind of question. America is not a homologus political culture. We are a deeply divided culture, and the abortion issue is one of the deepest divides. Wishing it to go away won’t accomplish anything. I bet there were a lot of people both North and South that wished the slavery issue would go away (prior to the Civil War), but it didn’t and shouldn’t have. You decry abortion politics as legislating morality, but abolition was an equally demanding moral issue. Slavery only ended because of Christian opposition to the institution. We have a history of moral crusades in the United States. Some are ore successful than others, but that is the way our history has been. Personally, I think that eventually change will come to the opinions of most Americans on the issue, and what is right now considered distasteful will be considered a grave breach of public morality, but it is going to take time and education to do that. There have been roughly 50 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. In any other context this would be called genocide. What, really, is the difference in this context? The convenience of getting rid of an unwanted child? I am generally considered a harsh person, but killing a baby as a matter of convenience is a bridge too far for me.


  37. 37 | September 27, 2013 10:42 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    The answer is 20 week ban, cut off funding and get parental notification. Accomplish that and move on. If the Pro-Abortion side wants to be asses, let them look like it.

    This is very toxic issue and a partial victory is better than none at all.


  38. 38 | September 27, 2013 10:43 am

    @ Goldwaterite:

    And the so-called “conservative” pundits in WaPo, CNN and MSLSD proved once again that if they’re really conservative, I’m the effing starting quarterback for the Saints.


  39. 39 | September 27, 2013 10:45 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    There have been roughly 50 million abortions since Roe v. Wade. In any other context this would be called genocide. What, really, is the difference in this context? The convenience of getting rid of an unwanted child? I am generally considered a harsh person, but killing a baby as a matter of convenience is a bridge too far for me.

    Some people chose to only fight battle they believe they can win. Losing carries such a negative stigma that those battles they do not think they can win, become trivial and inconvenient, best swept aside and ignored.


  40. 40 | September 27, 2013 10:47 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    I’m the effing starting quarterback for the Saints.

    Runs down field, ducking and weaving into the end zone… I’m Open I’m Open… :twisted:


  41. 41 | September 27, 2013 10:53 am

    @ doriangrey:

    You never really know the victor of a battle until gthe battle is fought, and even then one victory or defeat is not the sum total of the war. The South lost a great battle at Gettysburg, but soon after they won as great a victory at Chickmauga. The war was not decided in either battle. Likewise any great struggle. If the wimps that run society today hadd been in charge of any of our great moments in history, they would have failed. This isn’t merely an indictment of Bush, nor even Obama. Bush and Obama are symptoms of a deeper pathology in the West, a self-hatred in our societies that is unwilling to fight the great battles of our time. That is one reason that Cruz’s seemingly quixotic gesture against ObamaCare resonated so well. There is a substantial minority of us that want teh resolute leaders who will fight the great battles. War is a thing of risk, always, but success is a child of risk, too. If we let them defeat us in our minds before the battle is even joined, then we will always lose.


  42. Speranza
    42 | September 27, 2013 10:54 am

    There is never, ever, ever going to be a “human life amendment” to the U.S. Constitution which bans abortion in all forms and under all circumstances. Deal with it and get over it. You’ve all been played by the GOP Establishment.

    And let’s face it, a shit load of hard right wingers who are “pro life” really don’t give a crap about welfare mothers or liberal women having abortions.


  43. 43 | September 27, 2013 10:54 am

    @ doriangrey:

    And that to me is the problem. Cruz, et al. have been vilified for ruining the Republican Party, attempting to hijack the “mission.” What the hell’s the mission? To be the “less filling, tastes great” Democrat Lite party?

    And oh my heck, did you hear President Oblahblah yesterday? That man has lost any touch with reality. And those animal ads from the White House? “The ‘Adorable’ Care Act?” Seriously? What’s next -- “I Can Haz Helfcare?”


  44. RIX
    44 | September 27, 2013 10:56 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    I think that you’re on to something.
    Our parish priest led a movement against Obama on the issue of mandating contraception.
    He nailed it, “This is not about contraception. This is about mandating that we pay for abortions and forceing Catholic hospitals to perform the procedure.”
    Who cares about contraception? That was never really the issue.


  45. 45 | September 27, 2013 11:02 am

    Speranza wrote:

    There is never, ever, ever going to be a “human life amendment” to the U.S. Constitution which bans abortion in all forms and under all circumstances.

    Are you being deliberately obtuse? I’ve already acknowledged that. So motherfucking what? There is a lot that can be done. Abortion is not some sacred right. Even within the framework of Roe v. Wade there are lots of restrictions that can be placed on abortion. Things like requiring the “medical facility” actually be up to medical facility standards. Things like requiring parental notification for minors. Things like limits on abortion themselves. 20 weeks is a viable baby. It i snot abortion to execute someone like that. It is infanticide. Are you pro-infanticide? Seriously, why the great love for late-term abortions? It seems like that should be something that basically everybody agrees is wrong. Compromise has to mean more than just giving the Liberals their way. Compromise can’t just be a one-way street.


  46. 46 | September 27, 2013 11:04 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Goldwaterite:
    And the so-called “conservative” pundits in WaPo, CNN and MSLSD proved once again that if they’re really conservative, I’m the effing starting quarterback for the Saints.

    What they did to Cruz disgusts me.


  47. 47 | September 27, 2013 11:05 am

    RIX wrote:

    Who cares about contraception? That was never really the issue.

    Exactly. And the rroot of the issue is free exercise of religion. If you can force a Christian organization to fund and/or perform abortions, then you don’t have free exercise of religion. That should be a huge red flag for all Americans, but look at the pushback we get even here. A lot of people, at best, could give a rat’s ass about free exercise of religion. They want to make religion conform to their world view.


  48. 48 | September 27, 2013 11:05 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    What McCain did after Cruz’s speech was the most disgusting act of betrayal ever. He’s a disgrace and reveals his nasty nature.


  49. 49 | September 27, 2013 11:08 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    The way the GOP establishment backstabbed Cruz was very revealing.


  50. 50 | September 27, 2013 11:11 am

    @ Goldwaterite:

    It was indeed. Cruz is much more in tune with the Republican base than someone like McCain. I don’t know that it is even right to call MCCain a RINO. He’s not really a Republican at all. He’s a member of the Washington Insider’s Party, like really all the top brass of both Parties. And the American people are getting pretty fed up with the Insiders. They have enriched themselves and their cronies while bankrupting the nation. We have one of the worst political classes of any country in the world. A lot of our leaders are no better than Third World Kleptocrats. How did Harry Reid get his money? He only makes, what, about $175K a year as a Senator, yet he’s amassed millions. Where did that money come from?


  51. MikeA
    51 | September 27, 2013 11:13 am

    So watching Fox News. They talked about the Kenyan attack. Nothing about the horrors done to the victims. Only talking about how the Kenyan forces may have screwed up. Yeah, blame it on the forces trying to save people.

    If this happens in the US, the local police need to just roll in and get them quick. No negotiation. Just kill every muzzie terrorist. Then again saying muzzie terrorist is redundant.


  52. 52 | September 27, 2013 11:15 am

    @ MikeA:

    I am surprised we haven’t seen something like that in the United States. We have enough Muslims. I read the other day that some of the attackers in Kenya were American Somolis. Ain’t it wonderful that we are importing Somolis? They’re doing the jobs American terrorists won’t do.


  53. 53 | September 27, 2013 11:18 am

    @ MikeA:

    Fox News is partly owned by a Saudi prince. Why do you think Fox was pimping the Libya War and attacking Syria. It does not shock me they trash the Kenyans and give the Muzz a pass.


  54. 54 | September 27, 2013 11:19 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    A lot of our leaders are no better than Third World Kleptocrats. How did Harry Reid get his money? He only makes, what, about $175K a year as a Senator, yet he’s amassed millions. Where did that money come from?

    Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Oman, Wall Street, Silicon Valley and Hollywood.


  55. 55 | September 27, 2013 11:20 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I am surprised we haven’t seen something like that in the United States.

    There is a chance Americans will shoot back. Besides, they run this country, why do something that will turn the people against you?


  56. 56 | September 27, 2013 11:23 am

    @ Goldwaterite:

    Jennifer Rubin got her ass kicked over by the conservatives on Twitter and Mark Levin tore her a new one. I’m actually thinking of writing something about dirtbags like her.


  57. RIX
    57 | September 27, 2013 11:23 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    Who cares about contraception? That was never really the issue.

    Exactly. And the rroot of the issue is free exercise of religion. If you can force a Christian organization to fund and/or perform abortions, then you don’t have free exercise of religion. That should be a huge red flag for all Americans, but look at the pushback we get even here. A lot of people, at best, could give a rat’s ass about free exercise of religion. They want to make religion conform to their world view.

    The Founders were clear about Freedom of Religion.
    No right is absolute, but there is no theory that would let the government force religious based hospitals to perform abortions.
    Catholic hospitals would close & would be bought up by counties & others & Obama knows that.


  58. 58 | September 27, 2013 11:24 am

    @ MikeA:

    If there is an attack like this -- it will come in California, Illinois, New York, Detroit, any major City/State will oppressive gun control laws. It will not happen in Texas where they know the citizens likely would be carrying weapons and would turn these ROPMA animals into Swiss Cheese.


  59. 59 | September 27, 2013 11:31 am

    I stil believe that the ACA was written with the intent of being unmanagement, unruly, oppressive and, in essence a veritable train wreck. It was DESIGNED to be unpopular and to create chaos in the economy.

    Boehner is playing right into the Democrats’ hands by calling for a moritorium on the implementation of the individual mandate until 2015. This way the matter is off the table for the 2014 elections, and Republicans trying to run against entrenched Democrats will have “how can they say this -- it isn’t even effective yet -- they’re trying to scare you” used against them. Might be effective, might not, but it takes a major campaign issue out of the mix. There’s no guarantee that employment will falter before November 2014 (after? maybe) that would give credence to Republican claims.

    But the scary, really scary, thing is if the Democrats are successful and should retake the House (I don’t think they will, but anything’s possible with voter fraud), then you watch -- it’ll be “yes, we heard you -- you HATE Obamacare and we’re going to fix it….

    …with top down, universal single payer health care. Look! We’re scrapping these 15,000 pages and replacing them with 1,000 pages.”

    And people will eat it up.


  60. 60 | September 27, 2013 11:32 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    You should and we will post it here in a good slot.

    Rand Paul did agree with Cruz’s plans, but supported him out of principle. No one is saying they had to agree with Cruz, but if he’s on your team show support and don’t back stab him to the media.

    McCain delivering the Democrat response to Cruz has forever stained his legacy. That to me sticks out and was really despicable.


  61. 61 | September 27, 2013 11:39 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    McCain delivering the Democrat response to Cruz has forever stained his legacy

    That is really what it was, too. I really believe that we’d be better off as a caucus if McCain were replaced with a Democrat. The Senate isn’t going to turn on that one vote (and if it did McCain would break his back he’d jump ship so fast), but McCain gives the veneer of “bi-partisanship” to partisan Democrat measures.


  62. 62 | September 27, 2013 11:44 am

    RIX wrote:

    No right is absolute, but there is no theory that would let the government force religious based hospitals to perform abortions.

    Exactly, but Obama doesn’t care if he forces Catholic hospitals to close. Obama doesn’t give a rat’s ass about healthcare per se. It is healthcare as a system of control that interests Obama. Anything that fosters that is desirable, no matter what the consequences may be for the less fortunate. All ObamaCare is designed to do is fail spectacularly, so that people will clamor for Single-Payer. The intent is to put private healthcare insurance basically out of business. He’s already put in a limit to the profitability of private health insurance. That guarantees that it won’t have the capital to expand the way it would in a free market. All it takes then is time. Sooner or later something will happen to break the fragile model that has been cobbled together. I wouldn’t put it past the Left to manufacture some such event. Or simply changing the allowable profitibility of healthcare insurers to the point that they simply can’t stay in business.


  63. RIX
    63 | September 27, 2013 11:45 am

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/09/27/poll-americans-think-putin-has-been-a-more-effective-than-obama-on-syria-by-2-to-1-ratio/#comment-1061335108

    If the Republicans were constantly using smearing hyperbole as a tactic, the MSM would go nuts.
    But they give a pass to the Dems on this disgusting, childish behavior.


  64. RIX
    64 | September 27, 2013 11:49 am

    @ Iron Fist:
    As it is now, under Obama Care insurers have to pay out 85% of premiums in claims.
    That allows them 15% for all overhead, including salaries, benefits, rents & reserves.
    They can’t continue very long that way.


  65. 65 | September 27, 2013 11:49 am

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    why do something that will turn the people against you?

    If that were the case, they’d have never done 9-11. There was always the off chance that Bush would nuke Afghanistan over that one. He didn’t, so they won that gamble, but he could have. As far as worrying about people carrying guns, the terrorists would only have to pick their venue. They aren’t going to do this kind of thing in Texas or Tennessee, but someplace like LA or Chicago. Yeah, there’s still the off chance of someone armed with a handgun (there’s always the off chance of someone with a handgun in a mall), but by choosing the venue carefully they could most likely avoid it. They were very smart the way they handled the op in Kenya. They rented an office, and smuggled their weapons inside over time, so they were able to have more firepower at hand than if they’d tried to just carry their weapons into the mall. There is absolutely noting preventing them for doing this at any mall in America. They could even rent the offices in the name of some mythical cross-cultural exchange, and the police wouldn’t dare investigate them too closely.


  66. 66 | September 27, 2013 11:52 am

    RIX wrote:

    That allows them 15% for all overhead, including salaries, benefits, rents & reserves.
    They can’t continue very long that way.

    Yeah, I knew it was something like that because Obama made the companies send out refunds for the “excess profit”. That simply leaves them no way to prepare for a major loss. If something big happens like a hurricane or earthquake, insurers in the affected area could all go broke. Since they can’t sell health insurance acrtoss State lines, they are very tightly tied to their individual markets. I am not an expert on business, but it just seems to me that they leave no way for these companies to prepare themselves for a serious loss.


  67. 67 | September 27, 2013 12:09 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    If that were the case, they’d have never done 9-11. There was always the off chance that Bush would nuke Afghanistan over that one.

    Nah they knew he was a Saudi stooge. :-)


  68. RIX
    68 | September 27, 2013 12:19 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    This is all segue to single payer.


  69. Bumr50
    69 | September 27, 2013 12:25 pm

    Peter Morici sez we’re DOOOOOMED.

    Republicans must live with Obamacare. They have few prospects for electing 60 senators needed to repeal the law, and unless they work to make it more palatable—something they have few ideas to accomplish—the nation is headed for socialized medicine.
    Obamacare seeks to substantially reduce the ranks of uninsured.
    It requires businesses with more than 50 employees to provide health insurance.
    Requires persons without employer insurance to purchase coverage, with federal subsidies for low and moderate income households.
    Expands Medicaid eligibility to many families with incomes up to 133 percent of the poverty line.
    Establishes government-run exchanges to facilitate purchase of health insurance.
    Imposes minimum coverage standards for private policies.
    Requires that insurance companies not turn away individuals with pre-existing conditions or charge them more than healthy policyholders.
    Minimum coverage requirements and the ban on factoring pre-existing conditions into rates are driving up premiums. Large businesses, like Trader Joe’s and Home Depot, are dropping coverage for part-time employees.
    Smaller businesses and healthy young people are seeing premiums jump—sometimes by 300 percent. The former are finding it cheaper to drop plans for full-time employees and pay a penalty starting in 2015.
    Many healthy young people will calculate it is better to forego coverage and pay a modest penalty—after all, a 30-year old earning $50,000 really can’t easily afford $4000 for insurance, making a $500 penalty appear modest. Even some middle income families will find similar math compelling.
    This will leave health insurance exchanges with too many sick people and too few healthy ones. This will drive up premiums further, compel more businesses and individuals to forgo insurance, and create enormous political pressure to increase federal insurance subsidies for low and middle income individuals and families.
    Medicare’s actuaries expect health costs per person across the entire population to rise from about $9,200 in 2013 to about $14,700 in 2022. That’s about 20 percent of GDP, whereas Germany spends about 12 percent and Britain even less.
    Large U.S. multinationals will find providing most employees with insurance too expensive if they are to compete in global markets and dump their employees into subsidized public exchanges.
    It will still be impossible for the GOP to win 60 Senate seats on a platform to repeal Obamacare. Although many folks will be without coverage, too many voters will depend on federal subsidies or Medicaid and simply won’t vote to give up those entitlements.
    The burden to find solutions will take congress to places that Republicans are very reluctant to go.

    ht-Breitbart

    I guess there’s always the “stout hemp rope” option…


  70. 70 | September 27, 2013 12:31 pm

    @ RIX:

    That’s been the plan all along. Don’t be shocked if that is Hillary’s campaign theme in 2016.


  71. MikeA
    71 | September 27, 2013 12:34 pm

    @ Goldwaterite:

    It like I said all along. It was a nice republic while we had it. ;)


  72. Speranza
    72 | September 27, 2013 12:34 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    If that were the case, they’d have never done 9-11. There was always the off chance that Bush would nuke Afghanistan over that one.

    Nah they knew he was a Saudi stooge.

    He was too busy telling us that Islam is a religion of peace.


  73. 73 | September 27, 2013 12:34 pm

    @ MikeA:

    We live in interesting times my friend!


  74. 74 | September 27, 2013 12:37 pm

    @ Speranza:

    Inviting Muslim Brotherhood Imams to the White House. The whole War on terror was lost in those early kiss Islamic ass day.


  75. 75 | September 27, 2013 12:39 pm

    @ RIX:

    Yep -- collapse the health care system, bankrupt the insurers and have people screaming for “reform” and this is what the Democrat “control the people” assholes will give you.

    Never mind that they never even tried private solutions that might have helped -- allowing insurance to be sold across state lines, forcing competition -- and no one has even mentioned TORT medical malpractice reform -- the biggest factor in the skyrocketing of health care costs, as doctors and hospitals have to pay sky-high malpractice insurance rates, courtesy of slip and fall lawyers like John Edwards.

    Now, do not get me wrong. If a doctor or a hospital makes a mistake, a REAL mistake, by all means the patient and/or family should be compensated. Cutting the wrong leg off during an amputation? Absolutely. Failing to follow a doctor’s instructions before surgery? No. (There’s a reason anesthesiologists are the most sued and have the highest rates).


  76. 76 | September 27, 2013 12:45 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:

    allowing insurance to be sold across state lines,

    They should allow Auto Companies to provide Health Coverage as well. That really would lower insurance costs.


  77. texasam7
    77 | September 27, 2013 12:45 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    Why not refer to Senator McCain as a Democrat in Republican Territory, (DIRT)?


  78. 78 | September 27, 2013 12:49 pm

    @ texasam7:

    I like that! McCain is a waste of breathable air.


  79. 79 | September 27, 2013 12:53 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    @ texasam7:

    I just call him an asshole.


  80. 80 | September 27, 2013 12:57 pm

    @ texasam7:

    Do you have a Twitter acct? Because if you don’t, I’m going to borrow that and give you attribution.


  81. Bumr50
    81 | September 27, 2013 1:01 pm

    In other news, the Giant Rubber Ducky is coming to da Burgh today.


  82. 82 | September 27, 2013 1:14 pm

    You really need to see the picture that goes with this:

    Somali Muslim has been hailed a hero after rescuing a mother and her three daughters from the Nairobi shopping mall as gunmen threw grenades and sprayed bullets yards away.

    Katherine Walton feared she and her children would not get out alive after becoming trapped under a table outside a supermarket in the Westgate complex.

    But they were saved by Abdul Haji, the son of a former Kenyan security minister, who bravely ushered them to safety as he fired back at the terrorists with a handgun.

    His identity has now been revealed after his story was immortalised in an iconic photograph which shows him reaching out to Mrs Walton’s four-year-old daughter Portia as she runs away with fear etched on her face.

    Once again, a civilian with a gun makes a difference in a mass shooting. I have no idea what Kenya’s gun laws are like, nor whether this man was carrying legally or not. His example seems obvious in either event. Armed victims stand a better chance of surviving something like this.


  83. Bumr50
    83 | September 27, 2013 1:19 pm

    What I want to know is, who are the 10% who want Jeb Bush?!?!

    PPP’s newest national poll finds Ted Cruz is now the top choice of Republican primary voters to be their candidate for President in 2016. He leads the way with 20% to 17% for Rand Paul, 14% for Chris Christie, 11% for Jeb Bush, 10% each for Marco Rubio and Paul Ryan, 4% for Bobby Jindal, and 3% each for Rick Santorum and Scott Walker.

    Cruz has gained 8 points since our last national 2016 poll in July while everyone else has more or less stayed in place. He’s made himself the face of a government shutdown over Obamacare, and the Republican base supports that by a 64/20 margin. It’s not surprising that Republicans identifying as ‘very conservative’ support a shutdown 75/10, but even the moderate wing of the party supports it by a 46/36 margin.

    ht - WZ


  84. 84 | September 27, 2013 1:19 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    When you fire back, the other side ducks. It gives you time to get out.


  85. RIX
    85 | September 27, 2013 1:20 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:
    By all estimates that I have seen, the real number of uninsured, the working poor is 12,000,000 (citizens).
    This is the population that needeed to be addressed. It could have been done with
    implementation of a low or no premium plan, with low out of pocket and stop loss coverage.
    Instead , the entire system is being trashed.
    A government that can mandate that you purchase a service, can mandate anything in the future. The precedent has been set.


  86. 86 | September 27, 2013 1:21 pm

    @ Bumr50:

    What I want to know is, who are the 10% who want Jeb Bush?!?!

    Karl Rove and his cronies.


  87. 87 | September 27, 2013 1:22 pm

    @ RIX:

    Actually expanding Medicaid coverages would have solved that problem. But that was not the goal with Obamacare.


  88. darkwords
    88 | September 27, 2013 1:22 pm

    @ 3 MikeA: By the end of the week there should be no muslims left in Kenya and they should should be pushing a barrier deep into Somalia.


  89. darkwords
    89 | September 27, 2013 1:25 pm

    @ 5 Iron Fist: The problem of helping any form of Islam out is that they use it as propaganda for their Caliphate. They view it as a weakness. And they view themselves as stronger and more superior. Helping them in Syria just strengthens them to do more killing of Americans in malls. They have a religious justification for it.


  90. 90 | September 27, 2013 1:33 pm

    @ darkwords:

    It is what should happen, but it won’t happen. Most of the wold is in deep denial about the very real Muslim Problem we face. It really is Muslims versus Civilization everywhere there are significant numbers of Muslims. The religion itself is a catalyst to violence. It is a creed that divides the world into the house of war and the house of submission. Islam is a totalitarian ideology. As totalitarian as Nazism, Fascism, or Communism. Until the world wakes up to that stark fact and acts on it, we will have acts like this from time to time. We aren’t connecting the dots here. There is a common thread between all of these over 20,000 incidents since 9-11. As long as we keep preaching that Islam means “peace” when it really means “Submission” we are going to be losing this war.


  91. darkwords
    91 | September 27, 2013 1:33 pm

    @ 17 Speranza: I think given personal choice a person would attend a gay wedding and give blessings. Now I think we still need a national discussion on just what marriage is, what gay relationships are, and what is best for kids and evolution. It’s not a discussion on a broad general equality. A penis in the rear is not equal to regular intercourse. That is the essential argument getting ignored. And we need to think on how we want kids to model gender identity growing up. I think the best possible model is a stable household with a man and women as parents with commitments. That also isn’t getting weighed. Sure two gay men can raise a baby but it is not optimal. A single mom or a single dad are not optimal either. They struggle. They have a harder time with kids. Kids are missing one set of influences that they have to compensate for.


  92. texasam7
    92 | September 27, 2013 1:36 pm

    @ Carolina Girl:
    Be my guest! Enjoy!


  93. darkwords
    93 | September 27, 2013 1:38 pm

    @ 18 doriangrey: They need to shut down DC completely next year. As a non violent protest against the media. Block all the intersections. Ride some bikes up to Congress. make a lot of noise.


  94. darkwords
    94 | September 27, 2013 1:45 pm

    @ 22 Iron Fist: That is why both sides of the abortion argument need to be called out and made to define their terms. a 20 week limit is probably acceptable to the majority but both sides play a shell game with the public and try to make the 20 week limit appear as “no abortions for anyone ever” or “abortions whenever you want one, no questions asked”

    The active voice in the issue need to be forced to state when they think life begins. Wendy Davis hasn’t been confronted with that question.

    I think it begins at conception. I would like an education process in place that includes that thought at planned parenthood. And its a women’s choice up to 20 weeks but a man’s liability should be established before conception. If a woman can withdraw from the life so can a man. That seem very equal… But I want to see life discussed. A lot of men and women are just piss poor parents and should be sterilized.


  95. RIX
    95 | September 27, 2013 1:46 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ RIX:

    Actually expanding Medicaid coverages would have solved that problem. But that was not the goal with Obamacare.

    That would have worked , based on a means test.


  96. 96 | September 27, 2013 1:50 pm

    @ RIX:

    Correct and would it have cost a bit, yes but it would have solved the problem. I would rather help poor Americans get health coverage than sending money to Afghan Pedophiles.


  97. RIX
    97 | September 27, 2013 1:55 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ RIX:

    Correct and would it have cost a bit, yes but it would have solved the problem. I would rather help poor Americans get health coverage than sending money to Afghan Pedophiles.

    Exactly & successive Dem & Republican Admins passed on fixing the problem.


  98. Speranza
    98 | September 27, 2013 1:58 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Goldwaterite wrote:
    @ RIX:
    Correct and would it have cost a bit, yes but it would have solved the problem. I would rather help poor Americans get health coverage than sending money to Afghan Pedophiles.

    Exactly & successive Dem & Republican Admins passed on fixing the problem.

    Ultimately the GOP is only slightly better then the Democrats. The GOP though sure talks a good game.


  99. Speranza
    99 | September 27, 2013 1:58 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ RIX:
    Correct and would it have cost a bit, yes but it would have solved the problem. I would rather help poor Americans get health coverage than sending money to Afghan Pedophiles.

    Or send money to the Muslim Brotherhood in “Palestine”.


  100. 100 | September 27, 2013 1:59 pm

    @ Goldwaterite:

    That would have worked, in the sense that it would have covered the Americans withut healthcare coverage, but it wouldn’t have advanced Obama and the Democrats’ agenda. Their agenda isn’t about helping the poor, it is about controlling the Middle Class. Obama wants the government to be able to cut off the health care of Americans based on their political reliability. A teacher in a Union would always get coverage, but a businessman who wasn’t part of a union would only have coverage if he demonstrates his political loyalty to the Left in other ways. People like us, of course, would have no recourse, and no health care coverage at all. It is, make no mistake about it, about control. The immediate goal of ObamaCare is to wreck the system we have. The long-term goal is for it to be so abyssmal that the people demand Single-Payer to fix the broken trainwreck that is ObamaCare. It was never supposed to “succeed” in its stated goal. It is only by failing spectaculrly that it can achieve its real aims.


  101. Speranza
    101 | September 27, 2013 2:00 pm

    texasam7 wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    Why not refer to Senator McCain as a Democrat in Republican Territory, (DIRT)?

    His dopey daughter is getting her own show.


  102. RIX
    102 | September 27, 2013 2:06 pm

    Ultimately the GOP is only slightly better then the Democrats. The GOP though sure talks a good game.
    @ Speranza:

    But still better. It’s media whores like McCain that make it joke.


  103. 103 | September 27, 2013 2:07 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Their end game is Population Control Eugenics that is what Obamacare is about.


  104. darkwords
    104 | September 27, 2013 2:08 pm

    @ 26 Guggi: That I would do. If they are Christians and I would pay them to tell their stories to all the kids in the nation.


  105. 105 | September 27, 2013 2:11 pm

    @ RIX:

    I don’t like today’s GOP. To me saying the GOP is better than the Democrats is like saying a Burglar is better than a Serial Killer. To me both parties are Islamic loving Socialists who divide American people for power. I only like the Libertarian faction of the GOP. The rest I could care less about.


  106. darkwords
    106 | September 27, 2013 2:12 pm

    @ 33 doriangrey: Wendy Davis needs to be forced to go on record stating her belief as to when life begins. Then we can have a reasonable discussion with her.


  107. 107 | September 27, 2013 2:12 pm

    @ Speranza:

    AKA Hamas.


  108. 108 | September 27, 2013 2:16 pm

    @ darkwords:

    I bet she’s against the Death Penelty for people like Tookie Williams, too. Most of these hard-core Leftists are. Coddle murderers and kill children. It is hard to believe that they are a serious Party in a modern State.


  109. darkwords
    109 | September 27, 2013 2:17 pm

    @ 42 Speranza: I don’t think any one is saying that here? I am just saying a compromise is needed that works for the majority of women and men. And we should educate people about making wise choices. The abortion debate as it is today is full of bad choices.

    I don’t conflate the moderate opinions to the extreme ones. I believe life begins at birth. That is a pretty critical thought. A foundation thought. Yet I see the need for people to come to their own realization about it. When you see a democrat use the word zygote you know they have drifted far far off the path of humanity with their secular education. A discussion is needed.


  110. darkwords
    110 | September 27, 2013 2:20 pm

    @ 44 RIX: Obama is not pro church in any way shape or form. Else we would see some religious wisdom in his speeches at his age. Instead of the “I hate america” crap he grew up on. There needs to be a grassroots effort to church leaders across the country that the Obama way is not the way to go. Even if one is a leftie dem. Churches do better when they have the freedoms to do large works. Obama wants the government to do those works.


  111. Speranza
    111 | September 27, 2013 2:22 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 42 Speranza: I don’t think any one is saying that here? I am just saying a compromise is needed that works for the majority of women and men. And we should educate people about making wise choices. The abortion debate as it is today is full of bad choices.
    I don’t conflate the moderate opinions to the extreme ones. I believe life begins at birth. That is a pretty critical thought. A foundation thought. Yet I see the need for people to come to their own realization about it. When you see a democrat use the word zygote you know they have drifted far far off the path of humanity with their secular education. A discussion is needed.

    The Republican Party platform always calls for banning abortion in all instances including, rape, incest and the health of the mother. That sort of extremism kills us in every national election.


  112. 112 | September 27, 2013 2:23 pm

    New Thread.


  113. 113 | September 27, 2013 2:24 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    It is hard to believe that they are a serious Party in a modern State.

    When you have support of the media, popular culture and your opposition is despised, it’s pretty easy.


  114. darkwords
    114 | September 27, 2013 2:25 pm

    @ 50 Iron Fist: It’s sad that in congress there is a system to make the congress people millionaires based on influence and insider information. That is as conflict of interest one can get.

    In this next elections there needs to be a message not to give money to Graham or McCain but send it to Mace and Cruz and Paul instead. The GoP grassroots need to be wise about how they give money out. Giving it to @gop is not the best option.


  115. 115 | September 27, 2013 2:25 pm

    @ Speranza:

    It’s Red Meat rhetoric to whip their “base.” I hope “the base” wakes up and realizes they are being conned.


  116. Tanker
    116 | September 27, 2013 2:26 pm

    Speranza wrote:

    darkwords wrote:
    @ 42 Speranza: I don’t think any one is saying that here? I am just saying a compromise is needed that works for the majority of women and men. And we should educate people about making wise choices. The abortion debate as it is today is full of bad choices.
    I don’t conflate the moderate opinions to the extreme ones. I believe life begins at birth. That is a pretty critical thought. A foundation thought. Yet I see the need for people to come to their own realization about it. When you see a democrat use the word zygote you know they have drifted far far off the path of humanity with their secular education. A discussion is needed.

    The Republican Party platform always calls for banning abortion in all instances including, rape, incest and the health of the mother. That sort of extremism kills us in every national election.

    You have a link to the GOP platform that’s says this?


  117. darkwords
    117 | September 27, 2013 2:26 pm

    @ 51 MikeA: Yet when one US solider pisses on a taliban it becomes graphic news around the world. The UK dailymail does though have a NSFW accounting of the horror at the mall.


  118. 118 | September 27, 2013 2:27 pm

    @ Goldwaterite:

    Jennifer Rubin.
    Kathleen Parker
    Peggy Noonan
    George Will
    Braindead Daughter of McLame
    David Frum

    Need I go on?


  119. darkwords
    119 | September 27, 2013 2:29 pm

    @ 58 Carolina Girl:

    Attention all muslims. Especially you somali kids in Minnesota close to the Mall of America. If you want to terrorize the United States your best chance of success will be in California or in Chicago or in New York. The rest of us will shoot back. Gladly.


  120. Tanker
    120 | September 27, 2013 2:30 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    @ 42 Speranza: I don’t think any one is saying that here? I am just saying a compromise is needed that works for the majority of women and men. And we should educate people about making wise choices. The abortion debate as it is today is full of bad choices.
    I don’t conflate the moderate opinions to the extreme ones. I believe life begins at birth. That is a pretty critical thought. A foundation thought. Yet I see the need for people to come to their own realization about it. When you see a democrat use the word zygote you know they have drifted far far off the path of humanity with their secular education. A discussion is needed.

    If you believe life begins at birth, does that mean you are OK with abortions up to that point?


  121. RIX
    121 | September 27, 2013 2:33 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ RIX:

    I don’t like today’s GOP. To me saying the GOP is better than the Democrats is like saying a Burglar is better than a Serial Killer. To me both parties are Islamic loving Socialists who divide American people for power. I only like the Libertarian faction of the GOP. The rest I could care less about.

    The Libertarian & Tea Party Wing needs to take over the Party.


  122. 122 | September 27, 2013 2:34 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    When you see a democrat use the word zygote you know they have drifted far far off the path of humanity with their secular education.

    They are using circumlocution to avoid talking about the fact that they are ending a human life. Kermit Gosnell is really a good example of this mindset in action. He is, of course, a convicted serial killer, but what he did wasn’t that different than what Planned Parenthood does all around the country. And taxpayers foot a large portion of the bill for that. But nobody is really talking about banning all abortions. That is a classic strawman. What we are talking about are common sense restrictions, including forbiding the slaughter of viable babies. I don’t care what circumlocution you torture the English language with, it is a homicide when you kill a viable baby. Most people realize this. We are talking about regulating abortion clinics as medical facilities. There is even a discussion about this? You want women getting sepsis from unsanitary conditions in an abortion mill? Really? Parental notification laws are likewise no-brainers. You wouldn’t let your 12 year old daughter get a tattoo (with or without the parent’s permission tattooing is not allowed if the person is under 18) withough parental notification. Why would you want them to be able to get an abortion? None of these are radical suggestions. To be against them is the mark of real radicalism. If I argued that the Second Amendment protected my right to tactical nuclear weapons, everyone would rightfully consider me radical. They also would discount my opinion as worthless. Why then to we not treat people who believe that it is OK to kill a baby in the process of being born so long as the baby’s head hasn’t left the birth canal unreasonable and out of touch? There is much that we can do even within the framework of Roe v. Wade. Abortion is not the paramount right of the people. It is mentioned nowhere in the Constitution. You may not be able to outlaw the procedure entirely, but you can and should regulate it as a matter of public health.


  123. darkwords
    123 | September 27, 2013 2:38 pm

    @ 111 Speranza: I agree with that. That the platform is wrong and written for the wrong reasons. It is just MSM cannon fodder in an election cycle. Not sure what genius thought it up.


  124. 124 | September 27, 2013 2:40 pm

    Tanker wrote:

    You have a link to the GOP platform that’s says this?

    Of course he doesn’t. That isn’t in the GOP platform. Abortion is sacred, don’t you know? It is the most important right in the Bill of Rights. OK,. it isn’t really in the Bill of Rights, but it is still the most important right we have. Because…well because!

    I presume I should stamp my little foot now. It always amazes me how the pro-abortionists treat abortion as if it were Holy Writ, all the while claiming not to believe in any Holy Writ. People like to say regulating abortion in any way is unconstitutional, but that simply isn’t the case. Roe v. Wade has in it explicit reservations about late term abortions. It is also interesting that a majority of the people who favor unlimited abortion on demand want to completely ignore the Second Amendment’s explicit restrictions on gun control.


  125. darkwords
    125 | September 27, 2013 2:42 pm

    @ 120 Tanker: lol i wrote myself wrong. I believe life begins at conception. Too much coffee I guess. Kind sways the whole issue.

    I believe it begins at conception and that abortion is a bad thing. But I am willing to talk about it to people and make educated choices. right now we aren’t doing that. I would be ok with an abortion if the mothers health was in danger. I am not ok when it is used as birth control. I would include sterilization then if I found someone doing that.


  126. darkwords
    126 | September 27, 2013 2:44 pm

    @ 124 Iron Fist: Maybe a state platform? I remember seeing that somewhere in the last election cycle. The MSM trotted it out.


  127. 128 | September 27, 2013 2:50 pm

    Hey guys take the part to the new thread.


  128. RIX
    129 | September 27, 2013 2:56 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    Organizations like Catholic Charities and others would step up to the plate to take babies after birth.
    Planned Parenthood really doesn’t relay that information. . If they did a lot of young women would choose that option.


  129. 130 | September 27, 2013 2:58 pm

    @ Goldwaterite:

    The “rape” issue in quetion wasn’t about rape. It was about RU 486. That is really sloppy reporting on the part of politico, but you have to keep in midn who they are. This is what the platform actually is about:

    The abortion language approved Tuesday endorses legislation that would say the 14th Amendment applies after conception and that would oppose using public funds to pay for abortions. It urges Congress to strengthen the Born Alive Infant Protection Act of 2002 by adding civil and criminal penalties for doctors who don’t adequately care for newborn babies. It supports a ban on sex-selective abortions. It also calls for mandatory waiting periods and parental consent requirements.

    That is not opposing abortion in the case of Rape. RU 486 probably wouldn’t have been approved if the FDA had held it to the same level of scrutiny that other drugs are held to. IIRC, Clinton simply ordered the FDA to approve it no matter what complications turned up in the clinical trials.


  130. Da_Beerfreak
    131 | September 27, 2013 3:00 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    @ texasam7:

    I just call him an asshole.

    He’s an American Quisling; much worse than a RINO … :evil:


  131. 132 | September 27, 2013 3:01 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    Nowhere does it call for the exception of rape. It’s not specify there.


  132. 133 | September 27, 2013 3:01 pm

    RIX wrote:

    Planned Parenthood really doesn’t relay that information.

    Planned Parent is Big Abortion, Inc. Period. They are in the business of aborting babies, and anything else they do is incidental. Personally, I feel like adoption is he better choice, and see nothing wrong about at least educating women about this option seems relatively harmless enough. Why is it that the pro-abortionists want the “choice” to always be abortion? Take Trig Palin, for example. The Democrats made clear in no uncertain terms that they believe citizens with Downs Syndrome are sub-human and should be exterminated. If I or someone I loved had Downs (or any other congenatal defect) I’d take that pretty personally.


  133. 134 | September 27, 2013 3:04 pm

    @ Goldwaterite:

    So? It isn’t in there that they don’t allow abortion for rape. Why is it that pro-abort like you want to make sure that there is only one choice that a woman can legitimately make with regards to their unborn child? Why do you oppose the Infants Born Alive act? If I were the GOP establishment I’d hang that arond the Democrats’ neck like an albatross. What is wrong with parental notification or a waiting period? Abortion is, de facto, the most protected right in the Constitution, even though it is not in the Constitution. Why is that?


  134. RIX
    135 | September 27, 2013 3:15 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    The abortion debate can spin out of control. I am not a fan, butI wouldn’t outlaw it.
    Born alive babies from a botched abortion is a different matter.
    They have exited the womb, they are here and they are human beings in full.
    They have not only human rights, but they are American citizens and should have
    all of the protections.
    For a guy like Obama to deny that is monster territory


  135. 136 | September 27, 2013 3:17 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    \Why is it that pro-abort like you

    I am NOT Pro-abortion. i am just not an absolutists like you. I am against abortion except in the cases of rape. I had a female friend raped in HS, so it’s personal for me. A woman who is raped should be forced to carry a rapists kid.

    I just don’t feel this is a hell to die on. I saw first hand how the GOP’s post 92 absolutism on abortion turned people off. I am for a 20 week ban, cut off funding and prenatal notification. I would take this as a victory and be done with this really stupid issue. For me it’s between a person and god.


  136. Tanker
    137 | September 27, 2013 3:29 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    \Why is it that pro-abort like you
    I am NOT Pro-abortion. i am just not an absolutists like you. I am against abortion except in the cases of rape. I had a female friend raped in HS, so it’s personal for me. A woman who is raped should be forced to carry a rapists kid.
    I just don’t feel this is a hell to die on. I saw first hand how the GOP’s post 92 absolutism on abortion turned people off. I am for a 20 week ban, cut off funding and prenatal notification. I would take this as a victory and be done with this really stupid issue. For me it’s between a person and god.

    TOO bad the child doesn’t have the same rights as you in this regard! It is the hell/hill they die on!


  137. 138 | September 27, 2013 3:33 pm

    RIX wrote:

    For a guy like Obama to deny that is monster territory

    It really is. Basically, he is saying that the intent of the mother trumps a living citizen’s right to life. I have no use for late-term abortion at all. I wouldn’t outlaw it completely, but I would strictly regulate it. If a woman can’t decide whether she is going to carry a baby to term during the first 12 weeks, then IMHO she has really decided. What they don’t tell you is that the vast majority of these late-term abortions are really euthanasia operations for children with birth defects. If that is the path you want to go down, then stand your ground there and defend euthanizing children with birth defects, but don’t treat it as some holy sacrement. Another thing that really upsets me is sex-selective abortions. This is more of a Third World problem than it is in America, but it is an extremely offensive thing to terminate a pregnancy because the “defective” “fetus” is female. That the pro-aborts can’t condemn this barbaric act and equally condemn the forced abortions in China tells you all you need to know about their “ethics”. Millions of girls have been aborted in China alone. So many that they are going to have a demographic problem in the not so distandt future.


  138. 139 | September 27, 2013 3:37 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    I am NOT Pro-abortion. i am just not an absolutists like you

    I am not an absolutist. I think, in general, though, that abortion should be looked on with disfavor. It is not the optimum way for the average pregnancy to end. Look at it another way. What if there were a drug on the market that caused a million miscarriages a year. How long do you think that drug would stay on the market? What would be the stock valuation of a company that produced that drug? We all know it wouldn’t stay on the market a year, and the drug company would be up shit creek. If they discovered evidence that the drug company covered up the miscarriages, people in the company could be facing jail time. Why is abortion any different than this?


  139. RIX
    140 | September 27, 2013 3:41 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    Think about this, we do not deny medicl care to death row inmates. You can’t execute them by the 1964 Civil Rights Act if they need medical attention.
    We provide medical care to anyone who can get to an ER.
    Yet the most defensless of human beings would be denied care by Obama and his ilk.


  140. darkwords
    141 | September 27, 2013 3:48 pm

    @ 136 Goldwaterite: I think the abortion debate is not structured correctly. The left controls the narrative. It’s sets up a polarity that makes a religious view point look bad. To take that back we need to name a date. Then the issue becomes less important. A person should be weighing life when they think about abortion and not how difficult it will be. They need to ask for help. I knew a completely anti abortion guy who had 6 kids but ran away from his family when he lost his job. He just walked out the door without a concern. And there are men who do worse. They need an education.


  141. 142 | September 27, 2013 3:49 pm

    @ RIX:

    All excellent points. These are the points that the GOP should be making. What is harming the conservative cause more than anything is a failure to communicate our ideas. The popular culture (by which I mostly mean Hollywood)is against us, and really doesn’t try to hide it. I figure Hollywood gives the Democrats a 5% boost in the national polls, though I have seen people say it is more like 10%. It is enough to make the difference, as closely divided as our nation is. We have to find a way to counter that. If you explained Infants Born Alive in the simple terms you just used, it would be very interesting to see where support of that law was in the electorate. My guess is that it’d get about 80% support. There is the 20-25% that are hard-core Leftists. But most people aren’t like them. They would feel that they were an alien ideology if you explained what they were really up to to most people. For whatever reason, we have proven poor comunicators in the years since Reagan. Reagan could communicate our ideals, and bring true moderates to support our cause.


  142. 143 | September 27, 2013 3:56 pm

    darkwords wrote:

    To take that back we need to name a date

    That i a valid point. The problem is that life essentially begins at conception (indeed, the genesis of life is what “conception” really means), but personhood does not. For me one of the most distressing things about the pro-aborts is that they dehumanize all unborn people completely. They don’t even call them unborn babies. That is in reality almost serial-killer level thinking going on. But it is hard to justify snuffing out a human life for the sake of convenience. And that is what the bulk of abortions are. They always throw up rape, incest, and life of the mother as exceptions, but it is actual rarelythe case that an abortion is undertaken for any of these three reasons. If it were up to me, I’d grant those three exceptions, but demand disavowal of late-term abortion entirely as the price of this compromise. It would be a real compromise, though, where the Left gives something too. This notion of “compromise” being give the Left most of what they want now, and give them the rest of what they want later, can’t fly. If they want a compromise, let’s see some real compromise.


  143. 144 | September 27, 2013 4:04 pm

    @ Tanker:

    Is it your child? If not, that is between the woman and God.


  144. RIX
    145 | September 27, 2013 4:09 pm

    @ Iron Fist:
    Hollywood does have a huge impact on the popular culture.
    Can you remember a movie or TV proram where the Republicans were the heroes & The Dems were the cretins.
    If uou’r a kid you have cool guys like Clooney telling you that the Dems are on the side of the agels and Republicans hate Grandma an kill puppies.


  145. 146 | September 27, 2013 4:10 pm

    @ Iron Fist:

    At the end of the day it’s an emotional issue. Roe vs. Wade brought this toxic issue into our politics.


  146. RIX
    147 | September 27, 2013 4:31 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:

    At the end of the day it’s an emotional issue. Roe vs. Wade brought this toxic issue into our politics.

    The Court should have left it with the States.
    Earl Warren admitted that Roe was a public policy decision, not in law.


  147. Tanker
    148 | September 27, 2013 4:42 pm

    Goldwaterite wrote:

    @ Tanker:
    Is it your child? If not, that is between the woman and God.

    We all know that even it was mine (any male), I’d have no say in the matter!

    This is also very personal to me as it is to you. Really close to home in my case so I’ll back away at this point!

    I’ll always fight for the child! To my death, because they can’t and I have to face God and answer for my not doing so!


  148. 149 | September 27, 2013 5:07 pm

    @ Goldwaterite:

    It is a very emotional issue, and rightly so. It determines how we value human life, if we consider human life to have any meaning at all. As I[ve said before, I am comfortable with murder, if the person had it coming. I really think that “The bastard had it coming” should be a legitimate positive defense in a murder trial. Of course, you’d be screwed if the Jury didn’t agree, but it is legitimate in my view. Killing an unborn child is not something that I could see me doing. I’ve never had children. Never wanted children. But I couldn’t see me telling my girlfriend I’d pay for the abortion if she got pregnant, either. There are alternatives, and those alternatives are always played down by the pro-aborts. There is really only one “viable” choice for these people. To me, that is borderline sociopathic behavior. I recognizxe it is a hard issue, and I am loathe to bring the power of the government into pretty much any discussion. That said, we have laws about homicide, and abortion laws are at the end of the day defining what constitutes legitimate homicide, and what constitutes illegal homicide. Roe v Wade is bad law. Not many lawyers would deny that. The Court had a decision it intended to hand down, and the indivual merits or facts of the case did not matter. It is the embodyment of Judicial Activism. The Court overstepped its boundaries there. Even Ginsberg recently admited as much. It has poisoned the politics of the situation. If Roe were overturned, and the matter left to the States, nobody would win a total victory, but the legislative decisions on the issue would be decided by the legislators closest to where that legislation is taking place. By Federalizing the problem, the Court made it a huge fault line in our politics. We have two distinct cultures in America, and this fault line runs straight up the middle between those two cultures. If Roe were overturned, California, Illinois, and New York would probably have state-funded abortions even more often than is not the case, but places like Texas and Tennessee would have laws that more reflected the community standards of those cultures. As things stand now, I condsier Roe the second worst decision the Supreme Court has ever made (Dred Scott v. Sanford being the worst. Most everyone agrees on that). It truncated the making of consensus that is the hallmark of free societies. It is the manner of coming to a consensus that makes Democracy superior to other forms of governance. It is the belief that the polity as a whole makes the important sdecisio9ns. Having nine High Priests who dictate the solutions to complex problems based on their whim is more of a theocracy than it is a Democracy. I don’t think it has irreparably harmed the nation, but it has poisoned the politics, and that will remain so as long as it has the force of law.


  149. Speranza
    150 | September 27, 2013 9:38 pm

    RIX wrote:

    The Court should have left it with the States.
    Earl Warren admitted that Roe was a public policy decision, not in law.

    Yes it was bad law.


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