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Sometimes Punting Is The Proper Play

by Flyovercountry ( 165 Comments › )
Filed under Debt, Democratic Party, Economy, Republican Party, taxation at December 12th, 2013 - 7:00 am

Political Cartoons by Lisa Benson

“The fault Dear Brutus is not within our stars, but within ourselves that we are underlings.”

I’m going to take a contrarian position today, both from one which my fellow conservatives are taking, and from the position that I myself would usually take. Here is my position, we should go for the Ryan/Murray deal, and we should go for it quietly. I know that most of you reading this will blast me for my heresy, and let me state for the record, I agree in advance with most of what you’re going to say. I only ask in advance, that you consider my arguments at least a little before passing your judgement.

First off, our current predicament is entirely due to the fact that we have not won sufficient elections recently to establish our will, nor even to adequately represent our wishes upon the national scene. That is a fact of life. Elections have consequences, and what we have happening in Washington right now is just the brutal reminder of the beautiful truth behind that statement. There is a second part to this however. Until we start winning elections, and winning them in bulk, we will never again get our way, no matter how passionately we state our well reasoned arguments. While I agree that we are far too often duped by some pretender or traitor, there are also some good people from our side who have stood up for their principles and done what was promised, and those people deserve our support.

The next point I’d like to make is that while this deal sucks, the current spending level can only be described as insane, and we are well into the period of time when according to the last deal, and the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that, promised that the future cuts would be taking place, we both know that this was where we were going to end up anyhow. No matter how fiercely our brave House Members fought, and no matter how tight a budget they passed and sent to the Senate, it would be DOA. The Senate would reject it, Harry Reid would strip up the version sent over, the Senate Democrats would have passed an amended version that would have been this monstrosity or worse, and the GOP in the House would have caved like cheap suits. After a long protracted fight in which this bill or worse would have been signed into law, we would have all been left feeling violated once again, and wondered what in the world they even bothered for anyhow.

Another thing that I’d like to mention is this. The entire process is nothing more right now than one giant squirrel, as in the variety that I warned about yesterday. Barack Obama is bleeding, and any budget fight right now would represent a fierce distraction from his bleeding carcass, and one by the way that would almost guarantee his regaining popularity, at least amongst his base. Winning elections should be our top priority. Obamacare is the gift that will do that for us, or at least be a major help. By November of next year, the employer mandate will up the number of previously insured but no longer able to afford it Americans to about 150 Million pissed off people. All of the above will be searching for their pitch forks and torches. We can spend the next year helping to keep them focused on the one single issue that will help us rid our Universe of the Marxists for at least a generation, or we can allow ourselves and our fellow citizens to become distracted, throwing away the gift that reality and Team Obama have so thoughtfully given. Paul Ryan’s budget was a political maneuver, and while many of us do not like those, losing the tactical war has been part of our downfall for a very long time. Frankly, I’m happy to see that at least one member of the GOP finally gets that, and has done something about it.

Like it or not, this is the price to be paid for those protest votes, purity tests, staying home on election day because you didn’t like that your guy lost and the other guy’s candidate won in the primaries. As Jimmy Johnson told his Dolphin Team during a playoff game in which they got beat by over 50 points, “if you don’t like it, do something about it.” There is only one something that can be done about it. Yes, our guys got slammed tactically when they controlled the Senate, House, and the White House, and they let us down by continuing to act like Democrats. Since then however, there have been 80 or so worthy Tea Party House Members elected and a few in the Senate. The answer is not to stop supporting them, the answer is to get more of their kind elected, so that they can make a difference.

Ryan’s punt may seem like a purposeful throwing of the game, but it is not. He is a policy wonk, and is playing chess, while others are playing checkers. What he is trying to avoid, and succeeding at avoiding by the way, is 8 weeks of headlines in which the GOP is blamed for throwing grandma off of the cliff, starving puppy dogs, while the Obamacare disaster takes to the back pages, all for the grand prize of having an even worse deal passed in the end anyhow. He has punted with the wind at his back, and has decided to let his defense try to force the fumble, and right now, their offense has shown that they are prone to fumbling the ball. The best and only path to having your way right now is the exact path that Paul Ryan has chosen to take. We need to have our guys win in both 2014 and 2016. Without that, cutting spending will be nothing more than a pipe dream, no matter how loudly we all proclaim to want that.

For the record, here’s what the Heritage Foundation had to say about it.

Cross Posted from Musings of a Mad Conservative.

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165 Responses to “Sometimes Punting Is The Proper Play”
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  1. Bumr50
    1 | December 12, 2013 7:16 am

    As I pointed out here yesterday, this is indeed the proper and smart thing to do right now.

    Keep the spotlight on the Obamacare turd.

    Unfortunately, perusing the conservative blogosphere late last night and into the morning, once again our party is fully prepared to do the wrong thing, yet again.

    I have no problem with GOP pols making statements against it and ACTING angry that more is not being done to rein in spending, but when the rubber hits the road, the proper vote is for this plan. Why argue over pennies when your opponent is on life support?

    Wait until after 2014 and hopefully you have the power to do something other than “shut down” government.

    And FTR, Cruz’ quasi-filibuster and the subsequent “shut down” looks smarter and smarter to me by the day, just based on the timing of it. Big picture, people are going to remember Cruz as the guy that went on a rant to try and stop the trainwreck that is affecting EVERY American. (I like Cruz, but am not some sort of crazed fanboy.)

    A “shut down” now will only paint a target on the GOP in a tough economic holiday season and shift the focus OFF of Obamacare.


  2. Bumr50
    2 | December 12, 2013 7:21 am

    We need to have our guys win in both 2014 and 2016. Without that, cutting spending will be nothing more than a pipe dream, no matter how loudly we all proclaim to want that.

    Big picture -- this deal is PENNIES. Sad as that is.

    That being said, like I said above, I have no problem with GOPers in contested districts complaining about the deal to appear tough on spending -- especially in contested districts.

    Just vote for it in the end, and don’t make crazy counter proposals that involve entitlement cuts. There hopefully will be a time and place for that.


  3. Speranza
    3 | December 12, 2013 7:38 am

    The shut down was stupid. The story then became the shut down, not ObamaCare.


  4. Bumr50
    4 | December 12, 2013 7:44 am

    @ Speranza:

    The Obamacare rollout overshadowed any negative perception pretty quickly.

    Anything like that now will simply take the focus off of Obamacare.

    Let them hang.

    Wait long enough, and the proposals from Progressive Dems will get positively outrageous in an effort to draw attention away from it.


  5. rain of lead
    5 | December 12, 2013 7:52 am

    yeah
    ok, keep playing chess there PR

    Report: There’s a nasty bit of the budget deal that makes tax hikes easier to pass

    The process is quite complicated, but in practice it grants Harry Reid the authority to send tax increases to the House with a bare majority, rather than the 60 vote threshold that would be required under the point of order.

    The provision has angered key Republican Senators. Reeling from Harry Reid’s unprecedented use of the “nuclear option” to end the filibuster on presidential nominations, they are incredulous that Paul Ryan would have backed another limit to their power.

    “This is an appalling power grab that should never have been allowed to be in a final agreement. It’s essentially the ‘nuclear option’ part two, eroding minority rights in the Senate even further. Harry Reid must be very happy,” a Senate GOP aide says

    (what, you mean we have to pass it to find out what’s in it?)

    Ben Domenech @bdomenech
    Follow
    There’s no way Ryan intended for this change to happen. Only Senate side folks pay attention to such things. Had to be an oversight

    but,but but….PR is the policy wonk, how did THAT happen?

    The bill includes language from the Senate Democrats’ budget to void a budget “point of order” against replacing the sequester cuts with tax increases

    the old saying is true, the devil is in the details
    whatever

    LET IT BURN!
    *looks around*
    oh wait, this is what burning looks like.
    never mind


  6. Bumr50
    6 | December 12, 2013 7:54 am

    Good piece on this at AmSpec from Ross Kaminsky:

    So with a view toward increasing Republican power (or, more precisely, lessening Democratic power since I am not a registered Republican), I suggest that the economics of this underwhelming two-year budget deal are less important than the politics.

    And on the politics, Republicans and Paul Ryan have achieved a considerable victory.

    This deal makes it far more difficult for President Obama, Senate Majority Leader Reid, and House Democratic Leader Pelosi to characterize Republicans as nothing more than “obstructionists.”

    Indeed, it should escape nobody (but will go unmentioned by the usual media suspects) that this deal happened while — and perhaps because — President Obama was out of the country; he was narcissistically busy taking selfies at the memorial ceremony for Nelson Mandela.

    In a world of asymmetrical political warfare, the benefits to the GOP of participating in a high-profile (even if not highly significant) piece of legislation with the word “Bipartisan” in its title far exceeds any such benefit to Democrats.

    Similarly, it defangs Obama’s venomous attacks on Republicans as “hijacking” the country “if they don’t get 100 percent of what they want.”

    In short, this goes a long way toward making the GOP look reasonable in the minds of the independent, moderate, and swing voters who truly decide our elections. It is an important accomplishment with less than a year until elections in which Republicans have a chance to regain control of the US Senate.

    Finally, the most likely alternative to this deal was not a better deal but either a worse deal or no deal, the latter greasing the skids for another government shutdown, the very briar patch that Democrats are hoping rebellious Tea Party-affiliated Republicans now throw Congress into.

    Yes, this budget deal does very little, for a very short time. And yes, if I were in charge, it would look very different. Indeed, if Paul Ryan were in charge, it would look very different. But I’m not, and he’s not.

    So for those of you who are saying “this deal is too terrible to support” I would ask you: “compared to what?”

    What better deal for Republicans do you think would have any chance of passing both houses of Congress and being signed by our Alinskyite president whose first thought is never “what is best for America?” but rather “how can I destroy my enemies?”

    Many Republicans, especially in the Senate, will object to this deal. It’s hard to blame them. It’s also politically useful, reminding voters of the fundamental differences between our two major political parties and how much better a budget could be if Harry Reid didn’t rule the Senate.


  7. Bumr50
    7 | December 12, 2013 7:56 am

    @ Bumr50:

    The title sums it up:

    A BAD DEAL COMPARED TO WHAT?


  8. 8 | December 12, 2013 8:05 am

    A couple more “principled stands” and/or “moral victories” and one-party Democrat rule will be a reality for the forseeable future. Republicans can piss and moan about the details of the deal but when it’s put to a vote, PASS THE DAMNED THING AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE and return the focus to ObamaCare.


  9. Bumr50
    9 | December 12, 2013 8:20 am

    @ MacDuff:

    I was trying to make that point earlier.

    I hope people are smart enough to understand the difference between words and actions, as it will be important here.

    Rand Paul and many others have criticized the deal, but that’s NOT a mistake unless he votes to stop it.

    Rhetoric is important in Congress.


  10. 10 | December 12, 2013 8:35 am

    @ Bumr50:

    Just vote for it in the end, and don’t make crazy counter proposals that involve entitlement cuts. There hopefully will be a time and place for that.

    Therein lies the point. If the time and place DOESN’T come, it’s all academic anyway, isn’t it?


  11. 11 | December 12, 2013 8:35 am

    @ Bumr50:

    The problem is that we have no clue abou thow to do propaganda. We should be beating the hell out of the “tax-and-spend Democrats” at every oppertunity, pointint out that they are putting your children’s children in hock up to their eyeballs to blow billions of dollars on “soicial justice” programs tobuy votes from the poor. We’ve blown a billion dollars on a web site that doesn’t work in the name of Socialized Medicine. Where’s the outrage? Obama can’t manage a mere shopping portal. He purports to be able to command the entire US economy? Un-fucking-real. We shoudl be hammering him 24-7 about all of this.


  12. 12 | December 12, 2013 8:43 am

    @ MacDuff:

    If not now, when? If not here, where? I am not being snide. When and where do the Republicans intend to fight? They didn’t do it 2001-2006, that is for sure. Have they truly changed their stripes, or ae they going to continue down the Democrat-lite pathway that leads the entire nation to ruin? The Republicans act as if they don’t believe that the shit-storm that is coming matters. They act as though we can continue to borrow $1 trillion a year forever. We are well on our path to becoming Detroit as a nation. That is the logical end of the path the Democrats have put us on. Are the Republicans going to change that?


  13. 13 | December 12, 2013 8:53 am

    this is particularly good news:

    The Florida appeals court ruling that the University of North Florida was violating state law when it prohibited a woman from storing a gun in her vehicle while she attended class will spill over to cities and counties statewide, an attorney said Wednesday.

    And it’s one of many nationwide where anti-gun activists are trying to do at the local level what they can’t do in the statehouse – restrict Second Amendment rights.

    This is good news. Every victory we achieve is one step closer to making us the Republic we need to be. I suspect that they’ll give more leeway to private businesses that want to restrict people carrying guns on their property, but we can always take our business elsewhere.


  14. 14 | December 12, 2013 9:00 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    If not now, when? If not here, where? I am not being snide. When and wehere do the Republicans intend to fight? They didn’t do it 2001-2006, that is for sure. Have they truly changed their stripes, or ae they going to continue down the Democrat-lite pathway that leads the entire nation to ruin? The Republicans act as if they don’t believe that the shit-storm that is coming matters. They act as though we can continue to borrow $1 trillion a year forever. We are well on our path to becoming Detroit as a nation. That is the logical end of thepath the Deocrats have st us on. Are the Republicans going to change that?

    All good points, well made. On the other hand, ObamaCare has the nation’s attention right now and the nation has ADD- asking them to multi-task has proven disastrous before and it will this time, as well. ObamaCare is eminently winnable and we desperately need a victory that we can build upon.


  15. 15 | December 12, 2013 9:07 am

    I think “punting” is the proper way to see this. It’s not forfeiting the game, it’s good strategy given our current field position and their QB’s shaky game plan. Keep pressing him and playing to his weaknesses.


  16. 16 | December 12, 2013 9:08 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ MacDuff:
    If not now, when? If not here, where? I am not being snide. When and where do the Republicans intend to fight? They didn’t do it 2001-2006, that is for sure. Have they truly changed their stripes, or ae they going to continue down the Democrat-lite pathway that leads the entire nation to ruin? The Republicans act as if they don’t believe that the shit-storm that is coming matters. They act as though we can continue to borrow $1 trillion a year forever. We are well on our path to becoming Detroit as a nation. That is the logical end of the path the Democrats have put us on. Are the Republicans going to change that?

    Good Morning.

    Here is the problem, Republicans can’t fight. Every time they try, the Democrats kick their asses. This is due to the Democrats control of the Media, Popular Culture and Technology. Until the Republicans can find a way to defeat this machine, head to head fights like the shutdown are suicidal.

    What Republicans should be doing is find out a way to rehabilitate their image, reach out to new voters and use new issues like Pot legalization to throw Dems off their game. It can be done, but patience is required and I do not see either the Establishment nor “the base” doing anything to adapt to the current political environment. Which is why I rapidly don’t care about politics anymore.


  17. 17 | December 12, 2013 9:12 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    I think “punting” is the proper way to see this. It’s not forfeiting the game, it’s good strategy given our current field position and their QB’s shaky game plan. Keep pressing him and playing to his weaknesses.

    Republicans are not even a top 20 NCAA College team. The Democrats are like 4 time Super Bowl Champions. They are not even in the same league ate this point.

    What Republicans should be doing is figuring out a way to rehabilitate their image with the public. They should pick a popular issue that is unorthodox for Republicans and catch the Democrats off guard. They need to study message discipline and address issues in a positive way.

    Sadly I don’t see this happening.


  18. eaglesoars
    18 | December 12, 2013 9:12 am

    All of this seems to assume the Senate Dems will pass this. What happens if they don’t?

    Some of them seem to be unhappy that there is no extension to unemployment insurance


  19. 19 | December 12, 2013 9:14 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    The problem is that we have no clue abou thow to do propaganda.

    Yup times 10000! Also they need to figure out a way to get their message out without going through the Democrat machine.


  20. Bumr50
    20 | December 12, 2013 9:15 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    If not now, when?

    I don’t know, but a shutdown before, during, or immediately preceding a holiday season in a bad economy is just asking for problems.

    We need a plan, and the GOP doesn’t have one. This leads to frustration.

    Did you ever hear a football crowd boo loudly at a situation that to an impartial observer can clearly see calls for a punt?

    FOC and others have made a great analogy.

    That’s what you’re hearing.


  21. rain of lead
    21 | December 12, 2013 9:15 am

    @ Rodan:

    point of order…
    it’s not that they CAN’T fight….

    it seems more likely to me that they really don’t want to fight
    picking winnable battles or otherwise


  22. 22 | December 12, 2013 9:16 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    Democrat want a shut down very badly becasue they know the Media and Pop Culture has their back. I would not be shock is they sink their own deal to get a shutdown. They know it’s a win for them, so I can see them not voting for the budget.


  23. 23 | December 12, 2013 9:18 am

    @ rain of lead:

    That is true but look at the shutdown. The Tea Party wanted a fight got it and got their asses handed to them by Obama thanks to the media, technology and pop culture. Just wanting to fight is not the answer. It/s coming up with a winning message, discipline and defeating the Media-Pop Culture-Technology machine the Democrats had.


  24. rain of lead
    24 | December 12, 2013 9:19 am

    @ Rodan:

    you know they will find SOMETHING to bitch about


  25. Bumr50
    25 | December 12, 2013 9:19 am

    @ Rodan:

    REID HIMSELF will try and “whip” GOP opposition votes.

    That’s how they roll.


  26. 26 | December 12, 2013 9:20 am

    rain of lead wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    you know they will find SOMETHING to bitch about

    Yup, the Democrats want a shutdown very badly. It’s a winner for them and I would not be shock they scuttle this deal and get their shutdown so Obama can get a bump in the polls.


  27. 27 | December 12, 2013 9:22 am

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    REID HIMSELF will try and “whip” GOP opposition votes.
    That’s how they roll.

    That is what the Democrats are doing. They are activating their Jacobin false flag operatives to declare Paul Ryan a RINO and try to kill the bill. Thus blaming Republicans and getting the shutdown they so desire.


  28. 28 | December 12, 2013 9:24 am

    Interesting changes for 2016.


  29. 29 | December 12, 2013 9:25 am

    @ Bumr50:

    Oh I agree that this is the right thing to do. The politics of a shut down are too negative for the Republicans. But they need to have their ducks in a row. They need to have a clear agenda, and they need to sell that agenda. The Republicans act as though they think that being right carries some specific value in American society. It does not. It is what you can sell to the crowd that matters. Being right, having the truth on your side, simply doesn’t count for much in today’s America. That isn’t right. It is a terrible failing onf our system. But we have to recognize it as fact, and work within the framework as it exists, not as we would have it to be.


  30. 30 | December 12, 2013 9:29 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Bumr50:
    Oh I agree that this is the right thing to do. The politics of a shut down are too negative for the Republicans. But they need to have their ducks in a row. They need to have a clear agenda, and they need to sell that agenda. The Republicans act as though they think that being right carries some specific value in American society. It does not. It is what you can sell to the crowd that matters. Being right, having the truth on your side, simply doesn’t count for much in today’s America. That isn’t right. It is a terrible failing onf our system. But we have to recognize it as fact, and work within the framework as it exists, not as we would have it to be.

    You just nailed everything right there.


  31. 31 | December 12, 2013 9:29 am

    @ eaglesoars:
    The Dems want a shutdown, but it has to be a shutdown that they can blame the Republicans for. Ryan got a deal. Like it or not, he probably got as good as we are going to get from the Democrats, because the Democrats want to bankrupt the country. The Republicans ought to be stressing that point. Democrat spending is completely out of control. It is unsustainable. We need to emphasize that. If we wait until it collapses, there is really no predicting what will come out of that.


  32. Bumr50
    32 | December 12, 2013 9:31 am

    @ Rodan:

    I believe that as long as the legislation isn’t permanently crippling, the GOP SHOULD offer as little resistance as reasonably possible. Just slow the process to almost a grinding halt by any means necessary.

    The Dems will be infuriated, and propose legislation that’s increasingly so anti-American and unconstitutional that it will be impossible to defend, even for major media outlets.

    They should do what they can to DELAY all processes, but if they keep agreeing in principle “openly” but haggle on the details, I’m willing to bet that the Dems will go over the top and show themselves to be the tyrants that they are.

    It’s a dangerous game, and one the GOP is thoroughly unprepared to play in it’s current disjointed state, but it would work. Play possum.

    The trouble is that the bed the GOP has made for itself is one of ZERO TRUST.


  33. coldwarrior
    33 | December 12, 2013 9:33 am

    just let the focus stay on this obamacre. everyday there are more and more stories about how bad it is.

    dont give the dems a target. fall back, regroup, take the deal. build momentum for november then for 2016 with positive messages and a plan on how to get america back to where it needs to be. positive messages of liberty and less big govt. bog govt is failing right before our eyes and it looks like a good majority of americans are seeing that and have identified it as a problem.


  34. 34 | December 12, 2013 9:34 am

    @ Bumr50:

    You summed it up accurately. Until Republicans get message discipline, learn to speak positively and figure out a way to circumvent the Democrat machine, they are no match for the Democrats. They need to focus on winning elections and not suicidal stands like they did in the shutdown.


  35. 35 | December 12, 2013 9:35 am

    @ Rodan:

    Nice to see the Rodan icon once again, just sayin.


  36. eaglesoars
    36 | December 12, 2013 9:35 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ eaglesoars:
    Democrat want a shut down very badly becasue they know the Media and Pop Culture has their back. I would not be shock is they sink their own deal to get a shutdown. They know it’s a win for them, so I can see them not voting for the budget.

    Rodan? Dat you? What happened to Goldwaterite?


  37. Bumr50
    37 | December 12, 2013 9:36 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    Godzilla!!!


  38. 38 | December 12, 2013 9:36 am

    @ Rodan:

    Thanks. We ae in a most difficult situation, and it is mostly the Republican Mandarins’ fault that we are there. From 2001-2006 we spent almost like Democrats. If we would have governed according to the principles that we espouse, we probably would have kept the House and Senate, at least until 2008. Obama was going to be a juggernaught, no matter what we did. But if we’d governed according to the principles we espouse, we’d have maybe been able to hold the House against the tide. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. That’s all history. We need to think about where we go from here. The Democrats are in awful position right now. ObamaCare is collapsing, and they really can’t do anything about that. We have to take advantage of that. This budget deal is not good, but it i probably the best deal we are going to get through the Democrat controlled Senate. Win the Senate nex year, and more becomes possible. I’ve seen it said that Politics is the art of the possible. You have to look at where you are, and determine the best way forward. Wishin gthat the American ppeople were decently educated won’t really help us. Learning to spoonfeed the populace with our side of the story, OTOH, is possible. Everybody can recognize that if you are borring money on your mastercard to pay the interest on your Visa, then you are bankrupt. And that is what we are doing, essentially. That is why they have to keep raising the “debt ceiling”. We could pay the interest, if it came to it, but Obama has no intention of prioritizing expenses to allow for that. So we borrow more money, putting off the inevitable crash but making it worse for us when i finally happens.


  39. 39 | December 12, 2013 9:39 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Positively is the key. If you listen to Republicans they are very negative and love to discuss esoteric issues.


  40. 40 | December 12, 2013 9:41 am

    Bumr50 wrote:

    The trouble is that the bed the GOP has made for itself is one of ZERO TRUST.

    Exactly. People haven’t forgotten how the GOP handled things in the 2001-2006 timeframe. If they’d kept fiscal discipline and mover a conservative agenda forward, I think that it is likely they would ave retained control of the legislature (at least the House). They failed utterly. We went to war in Iraq (which I supported), but then faile d to do the requisit followup in the American electorate. During WWII FDR gave many “fieside cvhats” about the progress of the war, the objsectives of the war, and so forth. Bush never did that once in the war in Iraq. That was a failure of leadership, and it cost us mightily. Oh, well. Water under the bridge. We have to access where we are right now, and go on from here.


  41. 41 | December 12, 2013 9:41 am

    BTW, the Class Act that was Bush 43 sent a very kind note to the Alabama kicker that “Lost the Big Game” (which is BS in my book -- Saban’s lousy play calling did it). View it here:

    http://weaselzippers.us/2013/12/12/george-w-bush-sends-letter-of-support-to-alabama-kicker-receiving-death-threats-after-missing-three-field-goals-in-loss-to-auburn/#disqus_thread

    I have to say totally outraged that the jerks at the Mandela Memorial booed the man that did more for South Africa than their current Prezdint Homey ever did. So basically, FU South Africa. When your AIDS deaths start going back up, you can thank Obammy.


  42. 42 | December 12, 2013 9:43 am

    it is mostly the Republican Mandarins’ fault that we are there.

    Yup, they create the mess the GOP is in by making false promises. The Corrupt Consultant Class is 70% of the GOP’s problems. They are dinosaurs stuck in a bygone era and have no clue how to win in today’s electorate.

    When I see Karl Rove fired and never hired as a consultant again, then I will believe the GOP is serious.


  43. 43 | December 12, 2013 9:44 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    Goldwaterite is retired. I am going to focus more on writing Sci-Fi and Speculation theories than politics. Rodan is a better moniker.


  44. 44 | December 12, 2013 9:44 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Yes indeed. The election of Democrats in 2006 had nothing to do with support for Democrats. It’s that the Libertarians and Conservatives said “enough of this spending crap” and didn’t vote for the Republican incumbent. Contrary to what the Dems want you to believe -- they DID NOT vote for the Democrat candidate -- they simply did not vote for the office period or voted for the Libertarian candidate (I know I did). This is what kicked them out of office.

    I’m always amused at the lefties who say “you didn’t complain when BUSH was doing all the spending.” Au contrare, that’s precisely why the election of 2006 happened the way it did, and I recall a lot of complaints about Bush’s spending increases.


  45. 45 | December 12, 2013 9:45 am

    @ Rodan:

    I’m not so sure about that. Negative campaigning works. Look at how Obama demonized Romney last year. Obama didn’t really have a positive campaign, just one to tear down his opponent. And he won with that. Romney should have been doing the same to Obama. He ran thinking tat just not being Obama woul dbe enough. It wasn’t. He needed to spoonfeed the populace on why Obama was such a bad President. The information was there if he’d been willing to use it.


  46. 46 | December 12, 2013 9:45 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    The problem with the Iraq war was we did nation building. We should have smashed that nation to pieces. Killed off a large part of that population and installed a dictator. Instead we installed a Pro-Iranian government. We got used by the Ayatollahs in Iran as suckers.


  47. 47 | December 12, 2013 9:46 am

    @ Rodan:

    AWK! AWK! AWK!

    And I’m sorry, I know you liked being Goldwaterite, but to me, you’ll were always Rodan…..

    BTW I found out our tool over at DoD was XCitizen10 hijacking someone’s nic.


  48. 48 | December 12, 2013 9:48 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I’m not so sure about that. Negative campaigning works.

    Yes for Democrats because they know how to do negative campaigning. When Republicans do it, they come across amateurish and stupid.


  49. coldwarrior
    49 | December 12, 2013 9:49 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    I’m not so sure about that. Negative campaigning works. Look at how Obama demonized Romney last year. Obama didn’t really have a positive campaign, just one to tear down his opponent. And he won with that. Romney should have been doing the same to Obama. He ran thinking tat just not being Obama woul dbe enough. It wasn’t. He needed to spoonfeed the populace on why Obama was such a bad President. The information was there if he’d been willing to use it.

    two aspects:

    one, a positive message of how america can be great again-strategic

    two, ruthlessly destroy your opponent at every turn-tactical


  50. 50 | December 12, 2013 9:49 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    The person you were arguing with on the legal stuff? He was really out of his league arguing legal stuff.


  51. 51 | December 12, 2013 9:49 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    When your AIDS deaths start going back up, you can thank Obammy

    Bush has done more to combat AIDS in Africa than anyone else in the WORLD. He gets nothing for it. Bush’s biggest problem is that he doesn’t sell himself. That may come from real humility, but it is a weakness in today’s pop-driven culture.


  52. 52 | December 12, 2013 9:50 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Yup!


  53. 53 | December 12, 2013 9:50 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Bono from, U2 always praises Bush. In fact Bono and Bush were hanging out with each other.


  54. 54 | December 12, 2013 9:50 am

    Rodan wrote:

    MacDuff wrote:

    I think “punting” is the proper way to see this. It’s not forfeiting the game, it’s good strategy given our current field position and their QB’s shaky game plan. Keep pressing him and playing to his weaknesses.

    Republicans are not even a top 20 NCAA College team. The Democrats are like 4 time Super Bowl Champions. They are not even in the same league ate this point.

    What Republicans should be doing is figuring out a way to rehabilitate their image with the public. They should pick a popular issue that is unorthodox for Republicans and catch the Democrats off guard. They need to study message discipline and address issues in a positive way.

    Sadly I don’t see this happening.

    All that notwithstanding, the team we have is the one on the field and the play call seems a prudent one to me. I’ll trash ‘em when they, once again, cough up the ball, but for now they’re playing smart.


  55. 55 | December 12, 2013 9:53 am

    @ Rodan:

    He really was. I think he knew it too and was doubling down. Hence the name calling. But I feel bad because I thought it was ISTE and it wasn’t. I’m afraid I’m going to have to block XC10 on Twitter. Starting to sound deranged. Also I have no use for nic-jacking.


  56. 56 | December 12, 2013 9:53 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Yes they made a good move by getting a shutdown out the table


  57. RIX
    57 | December 12, 2013 9:54 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:

    The problem with the Iraq war was we did nation building. We should have smashed that nation to pieces. Killed off a large part of that population and installed a dictator. Instead we installed a Pro-Iranian government. We got used by the Ayatollahs in Iran as suckers.

    The thing is we had our anti Iran dictator Sadam. The Gulf War was really o protect Saudi Arabia, not to liberate Kuwait.
    We could have turned Sadam back to our guy. He was corrupt & ruthless, but we could have done business with him.
    Now Iraq is an Islamic satellite of Iran.


  58. 58 | December 12, 2013 9:54 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    No way that was ITSE, he would not do that. XC10 has some grudge with Stranaham, that is what this is about.


  59. eaglesoars
    59 | December 12, 2013 9:55 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Speculation theories

    sounds like great fun! what is ‘speculation theories’?


  60. 60 | December 12, 2013 9:55 am

    @ Rodan:

    So, did the new Godzirra movie cause you to dust off the ol’ nic? ;)


  61. RIX
    61 | December 12, 2013 9:56 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    Yes they made a good move by getting a shutdown out the table

    Yup, the Dems win Shutdown PR. Imo Cruz should have been admired for his stand, but he was demonized.
    Best to keep the focus on ObamaCare. The Dems are bleeding.


  62. 62 | December 12, 2013 9:56 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    It was pointed out that every time Bush came before the American people and explained and stood up for himself, his poll numbers actually went up. I blame a lot of this on BAAAAAD advice from Karl “White Board” Rove.


  63. 63 | December 12, 2013 9:56 am

    @ RIX:

    Yup, these Arab leaders are mercenaries.


  64. 64 | December 12, 2013 9:57 am

    @ MacDuff:

    GMTA!


  65. 65 | December 12, 2013 9:57 am

    @ Rodan:

    Yep, and I even told ISTE the truth about it and apologized for thinking what I was thinking when I done thought it. I think I know who XC10 is on the blog -- has four words in the name, correct? Was he banned?


  66. 66 | December 12, 2013 9:58 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    @ Rodan:
    So, did the new Godzirra movie cause you to dust off the ol’ nic?

    Yes!!

    I am also going to write more on Sci-Fi and Speculation theories. I am very disillusioned with politics right now.


  67. 67 | December 12, 2013 10:00 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    He was Mandingo Warrior and Pan of the Forest. He was one of us, but got caught up with the Trenches crew.


  68. 68 | December 12, 2013 10:00 am

    @ Rodan:

    You mean I’ll have some competition? Cool! :cool:


  69. 69 | December 12, 2013 10:02 am

    @ RIX:

    Cruz did not know what he was up against and got burned. You can’t defeat in a head up fight the Media, Pop Culture and Technology.


  70. 70 | December 12, 2013 10:02 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Yeah, Rove only waned to “wi” by 1%. That is a completely wrong mindset. HE should have been trying to get Bush to win by double-digits. I don’t know if Bush could have eve pulled it off, but if he’d been taling to the American people, an getting them to understand the gravity of our situation, he’d have done better for himself.


  71. RIX
    71 | December 12, 2013 10:03 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ RIX:

    Yup, these Arab leaders are mercenaries.

    Right & we need to deal with them as they are.
    Make in a good thing for them to cooperate & a very bad thing not to.


  72. 72 | December 12, 2013 10:03 am

    Rodan wrote:

    I am very disillusioned with politics right now.

    Yeah, it shows. Sometimes ya just gotta step away and get a new perspective lest it drive you mad.


  73. RIX
    73 | December 12, 2013 10:06 am

    Rodan wrote:

    @ RIX:

    Cruz did not know what he was up against and got burned. You can’t defeat in a head up fight the Media, Pop Culture and Technology.

    But he was also sabotaged by establishment Republicans..
    Cruz was doing what he campaigned on. so he became an outlier in the Party.


  74. eaglesoars
    74 | December 12, 2013 10:09 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    It was pointed out that every time Bush came before the American people and explained and stood up for himself, his poll numbers actually went up. I blame a lot of this on BAAAAAD advice from Karl “White Board” Rove.

    Rove said as much in his book. He said he had not realized how much the ‘Bush lied, people died’ meme hurt Bush. Also, there was the idea that getting down in the mud with these people would just soil them. Having listened to Dana Perino for awhile, my guess is that came from Bush himself


  75. coldwarrior
    75 | December 12, 2013 10:10 am

    RIX wrote:

    But he was also sabotaged by establishment Republicans..
    Cruz was doing what he campaigned on. so he became an outlier in the Party.

    cruz did what he told his constituents he was going to and good for him. i thought it a pointless act, but he gets an attaboy form me for sticking to his word. now back to reality.


  76. 76 | December 12, 2013 10:11 am

    @ MacDuff:

    I am just angry how Republican leaning voters are being lied to. The Establishment is lying to them, talk show radio hosts and blogs are lying to them. I am a minor voice and try to tell people the truth. It’s useless people are set in their ways. I can’t convince people of reality and I have given up.

    The only Republican who is speaking the truth and trying to change anything is Rand Paul. Instead of being praised he gets attacked and called a RINO. There are very powerful negative and evil forces embedded with the Right who have manipulated and lied to many well meaning people. They have brainwashed many with fear and now much of the Right is in lock step marching orders like the Jacobins.

    In my final political post, I will name names.


  77. 77 | December 12, 2013 10:11 am

    Rodan wrote:

    I am also going to write more on Sci-Fi and Speculation theories. I am very disillusioned with politics right now.

    Maybe I’ll contribute a concert review here and there for y’all. We do that a lot, we did one last night and we have a lot more lined up in the future. This city has become quite a plum for concert tours and my wife delights in getting us front row seats.


  78. coldwarrior
    78 | December 12, 2013 10:12 am

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Rove said as much in his book. He said he had not realized how much the ‘Bush lied, people died’ meme hurt Bush. Also, there was the idea that getting down in the mud with these people would just soil them. Having listened to Dana Perino for awhile, my guess is that came from Bush himself

    i have no time or respect for someone who refuses to defend himself.


  79. RIX
    79 | December 12, 2013 10:12 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    RIX wrote:

    But he was also sabotaged by establishment Republicans..
    Cruz was doing what he campaigned on. so he became an outlier in the Party.

    cruz did what he told his constituents he was going to and good for him. i thought it a pointless act, but he gets an attaboy form me for sticking to his word. now back to reality.

    Correct on both counts. Point made , now let’s let the Dems self destruct.


  80. 80 | December 12, 2013 10:13 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    They didn’t fight back. The American people don’t like weak leaders. It may be unfortunate, but a strong leader has to always look for ways to demonstrate that strength. Bush never did. Oh, he had a muscular enough foreign policy, but he never tried to win the hearts and minds of the American people. Sooner or later, all of the unanswered slanders added up, and it tanked his credibility.


  81. RIX
    81 | December 12, 2013 10:16 am

    See ya later.


  82. 82 | December 12, 2013 10:16 am

    @ RIX:

    Yes he was sabotaged, but Cruz’s head was gassed also. He really though Americans would rise up and back him. Instead the Media and Pop Culture turned the public against him. Cruz really underestimated the Democrat machine. Hopefully he learned his lesson and will focus on serving the people of Texas.


  83. Speranza
    83 | December 12, 2013 10:18 am

    eaglesoars wrote:

    Carolina Girl wrote:
    @ Iron Fist:
    It was pointed out that every time Bush came before the American people and explained and stood up for himself, his poll numbers actually went up. I blame a lot of this on BAAAAAD advice from Karl “White Board” Rove.

    Rove said as much in his book. He said he had not realized how much the ‘Bush lied, people died’ meme hurt Bush. Also, there was the idea that getting down in the mud with these people would just soil them. Having listened to Dana Perino for awhile, my guess is that came from Bush himself

    Proof positive that Karl Rove deserves the moniker “pig vomit” that I have most generously bestowed upon him as he is a dick head. The only people Bush ever criticized where Republicans who were against his amnesty plan and against at the idea of a leftie such as Harriet Miers being nominated for the Supreme Court.


  84. 84 | December 12, 2013 10:18 am

    @ MacDuff:

    That would be cool. I also like your foreign policy perspective as well. It would be cool to see some posts on foreign policy.


  85. 85 | December 12, 2013 10:18 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    cruz did what he told his constituents he was going to and good for him. i thought it a pointless act, but he gets an attaboy form me for sticking to his word. now back to reality.

    My sentiments exactly. I was not pleased by Cruz’s actions, but he did it and I see no reason for his actions or disagreement with same to cause permanent schism within the party. We need to have our debates regarding our differences, then coalesce based on what we have in common. In the end, when one of us wins, we all win.

    We need to win.


  86. 86 | December 12, 2013 10:19 am

    Some gun related legislation in Virginia. The biggie I see is the one banning firearms ownership for “certain crimes”. Nice and vague. All that comes back to what I always say: if a person is a danger to the community, they shouldn’t be let out of jail. If they aren’t a danger to the community, then there is no reason that the state should ban them from having firearms for self-defense. Remember, these are peopl ewho’ve been convictd, so they have already been punished for their crime. If a person has paid his debt to society, then he deserves his civil rights back.


  87. Speranza
    87 | December 12, 2013 10:20 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    We need to win.

    What a quaint idea.


  88. 88 | December 12, 2013 10:21 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    I read that book also. It does come from Bush. It was his father who came up with Kindler gentler. Before the Bushes, the GOP was ruthless and committed to victory. After the Bushes, they are bunch of losers.


  89. 89 | December 12, 2013 10:22 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Winning is not the only thing, it is everything!

    -Vince Lombardi


  90. 90 | December 12, 2013 10:22 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    And this one is great:

    Federal firearms laws; enforcement. Provides that agencies and political subdivisions of the Commonwealth, and employees thereof, shall not knowingly aid any employee or entity of the federal government (i) in the enforcement of federal firearms laws that take effect on or after December 1, 2013, or (ii) in the conduct or enforcement of a criminal background check related to any intrastate sale, loan, gift, or other transfer of a firearm between citizens of the Commonwealth.

    I hope that passes. That as good a way as I can think of to tell Terry McAuliff to suck it when it comes to gun control.


  91. 91 | December 12, 2013 10:24 am

    @ Speranza:

    If the GOP does not start winning, many Center-Right types like me will stop voting. Up and coming Center-Right politicians will just be Blue Dog Democrats.

    Republicans should not get their heads gassed over Obamacare causing the Democrats trouble. They are actually the weaker of the 2 Parties.


  92. 92 | December 12, 2013 10:27 am

    Rodan wrote:

    Up and coming Center-Right politicians will just be Blue Dog Democrats

    The Democrats have pretty effectively purged the Blue Dogs. And the Blue Dogs that are up there may talk a good fight, but they vote Party line. Look at Manchin. He ran against gun control, thn one of the first things he does when he is elected is push for more gun control. “Centerist” Democrats are still Leftists at heart. IF they aren’t, the Democrats aren’t interested in getting them elected.


  93. coldwarrior
    93 | December 12, 2013 10:33 am

    @ MacDuff:

    more foodie/drinkie things from me


  94. eaglesoars
    94 | December 12, 2013 10:35 am

    I just realized no one has taken a stab at answering my qestion. What happens if this bill fails in the Senate? (I have no clue)


  95. 95 | December 12, 2013 10:35 am

    Installing software sucks. I’ve spent all morning trying to get the right software installed to do my next project. It is going to take me longer to get to where I can open the project than it is going to take e to actually do the project once everything runs.


  96. coldwarrior
    96 | December 12, 2013 10:36 am

    Iron Fist wrote:

    @ Iron Fist:
    And this one is great:

    Federal firearms laws; enforcement. Provides that agencies and political subdivisions of the Commonwealth, and employees thereof, shall not knowingly aid any employee or entity of the federal government (i) in the enforcement of federal firearms laws that take effect on or after December 1, 2013, or (ii) in the conduct or enforcement of a criminal background check related to any intrastate sale, loan, gift, or other transfer of a firearm between citizens of the Commonwealth.

    I hope that passes. That as good a way as I can think of to tell Terry McAuliff to suck it when it comes to gun control.

    The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned. Art. 1, § 21 (enacted 1790, art. IX, § 21). Pennsylvania’s founding gun law.


  97. Daffy Duck
    97 | December 12, 2013 10:36 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    The Republicans get blamed…no matter what.

    And they take it.


  98. 98 | December 12, 2013 10:36 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    That is true, but Democrats give their candidates more leeway to win. If a Republican ran on Pot Legalizition and took a nuanced view of Abortion, that person would get called a RINO and there would be primary challenges lining up.

    Democrats are interested in winning and will say and do anything.


  99. 99 | December 12, 2013 10:37 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Hey just release it, worked for Healthcare.Gov!

    :lol:


  100. Daffy Duck
    100 | December 12, 2013 10:37 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    You probably just need more money to finish it….say, a few hundred million $ ??

    /


  101. 101 | December 12, 2013 10:38 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    I don’t know, either. If it does and there is a shut down, the Democrats should get the blame for it, but I don’t know that they will. We haven’t had a budget in five years. I’ll honestly be surprised if we get one through before 2015, and we’ll onley get one then if we win the Senate. And Obama will veto any budget that we do pass then. We’ll never have the votes to override his veto.


  102. Daffy Duck
    102 | December 12, 2013 10:38 am

    @ Rodan:

    LOL


  103. coldwarrior
    103 | December 12, 2013 10:39 am

    eaglesoars wrote:

    I just realized no one has taken a stab at answering my qestion. What happens if this bill fails in the Senate? (I have no clue)

    then this gets hanged on the senate.

    make them eat it


  104. 104 | December 12, 2013 10:41 am

    @ Daffy Duck:

    You know, I’d be happy to get 1% of the money spent on Healthcare.gov. They must be paying their software engineers ridiculous amounts for this thing to have cost so much. I can’t imagine how you go through $600 million to create a web site. I used to work at a place that did web sites, and we were charging somewhere from $25K to $50K depending on exactly what we were writing. We turnd out some nice sites. We didn’t have millions ofcustomers on these sites, but we did have credit card billing and transaction processing on some of them. $600 million woudl buy all the software we built the whole time we were in business and had pleanty of money to spare.


  105. Daffy Duck
    105 | December 12, 2013 10:46 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    That whole thing reeks of cronyism / money laundering…since there was no real backlash for Solyndra (and related scams), the crooks probably figured “so what’s the problem?” and raised the stakes.

    / I AM a cynic


  106. 106 | December 12, 2013 10:46 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Yes, and more Law things from me, I think.
    I could start with the silly that was Hoge’s big “victory” in a lower Maryland court that certain hysterics circling the drain believe is an indictment against blogging about somebody (as we do at DoD) when it most certainly is not.


  107. 107 | December 12, 2013 10:49 am

    @ Daffy Duck:

    There’s a good reason for that saying “a healthy dose of cynicism.”
    Okay, iPod is playing the Christmas music from now until Xmas Eve. I LOVE Christmas music -- it makes me happy.

    (Mostly because it irritates the hell out of the libs in my office)


  108. eaglesoars
    108 | December 12, 2013 10:52 am

    Daffy Duck wrote:

    That whole thing reeks of cronyism

    Not only is the head of CGI a Princeton buddy of Mooch’s -- guess who works there? Valerie Jarrett’s daughter and son-in-law


  109. 109 | December 12, 2013 10:55 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    more foodie/drinkie things from me

    Yeah, that’d be cool. I hate to use the word, but there truly a lot of “diversity” of interests here. It needn’t constantly be a hotbed of controversy 24/7.

    Originally, I was skeptical, and somewhat snarky about the whole “change” thing but now I think it might be a healthy direction.


  110. coldwarrior
    110 | December 12, 2013 10:57 am

    have a read

    looks like the lies continue…whilst thine enemy is destroying himself, get the hell out of the way, verily and with haste!


  111. 111 | December 12, 2013 10:58 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    Yeah, and I bet all three of those people have gotten over a million dollars for their “contributions” to the project. $1 billion for a web site is beyond ridiculous. What is worse, though, is that it is for a web site that doesn’t work. I heard last night on Fox that they were going to have to hand-verify thousands of applications because the back end of this beast was chewing up the data that it was passing to the insurance companies. IIRC, they said there was about a 20-25% failure rate. That is just totally unacceptable.


  112. 112 | December 12, 2013 11:00 am

    @ MacDuff:

    I agree. Each one of us brings a different perspective and background to share. One of the real problems we had was we were leaving the heavy lifting for providing threads to a handful of individuals. Somehow contributing one NFL thread a week for 22 weeks and the occasional Daytona 500 thread is insufficient on my part. My biggest problem is I’m an assignment oriented person. I work best when I get the “hey we need a thread on this -- write one” email from Rodan or Speranza.

    I’d like to see a return of the radio show as well.


  113. Daffy Duck
    113 | December 12, 2013 11:00 am

    @ eaglesoars:

    Aha…so I doubt the “software engineers” made tons of money, but those who are well connected made out…with OUR money.

    Again.


  114. eaglesoars
    114 | December 12, 2013 11:00 am

    gotta go -- later


  115. 115 | December 12, 2013 11:00 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    Or, in modern terms…..run fast, run far.


  116. Da_Beerfreak
    116 | December 12, 2013 11:00 am

    “Who says that there is no difference between the political parties? When Democrats are criticized, they counter-attack. When Republicans are criticized, they whine that they are innocent.”
    - Thomas Sowell -

    “We need to forgive our enemies, but not before they are hanged.”
    Proposed motto for the new Stout Hemp Rope Party. :twisted:


  117. 117 | December 12, 2013 11:01 am

    @ MacDuff:

    I like conversing with the people here regardless of politics. I just can’t write about it anymore. The Right is going down a political path I don’t agree with. There is no point in doing threads or discussions that piss people off. Even when I can convince people of reality as soon as some Republican politician, another Blog or some Radio Talk Show hosts contradicts, people revert back to the lies being peddled.

    Like I said, my final political posts will call out by name the evil Ayatollahs and Jacobins misleading the Right.


  118. 118 | December 12, 2013 11:02 am

    @ MacDuff:

    I intend to do some posts on kyusho jitsu pressure-point fighting, traditional Chinese medicine, and its relationship to the martial arts. I think people might find it interesting, and there is a lot of material there. I have books and books on acupuncture and such. I just have to dig them out, and get my lazy ass into the writing of them.


  119. 119 | December 12, 2013 11:04 am

    @ Rodan:

    You and I have had some pretty fun phone calls on the weekends!


  120. Daffy Duck
    120 | December 12, 2013 11:07 am

    @ coldwarrior:

    From your link, this was funny:

    A charitable reading suggests that ObamaCare’s net enrollment stands at about negative four million.

    Yeah, stand aside.


  121. 121 | December 12, 2013 11:07 am

    @ Carolina Girl:

    Oh yes. I was going to call last night, but I went to bed. Expect one this weekend.


  122. 122 | December 12, 2013 11:07 am

    More Epic FAIL for ObamaCare:

    The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services announced this morning that nearly 365,000 Americans had signed up for private health insurance under Obamacare. The vast majority came from 14 states running their own insurance exchanges, while 137,000 came by way of HealthCare.gov, the much-faulted federal website that handles enrollment for the remaining states.

    But amid the rush to enroll as many people as possible by the Dec. 23 deadline, there’s a huge caveat that isn’t getting much public attention: In order for coverage to take effect on Jan. 1, enrollees must pay their first month’s premium on time. (The deadline varies somewhat by state and by insurer.)

    That’s slow going, according to consultants and some insurers, raising the prospect that actual enrollment will be far lower than the figures HHS is releasing.

    “There is also a lot of worrying going on over people making payments,” industry consultant Robert Laszewski wrote in an email. “One client reports only 15% have paid so far. It is still too early to know for sure what this means but we should expect some enrollment slippage come the payment due date.”

    That is going to be interesting. We’ll see some real numbers in January, perhaps. Or not. The Obama Administration prefers obfuscation to transparency. I don’t think that is likely to change, especially if the numbers are as bad as they seem to be here.


  123. coldwarrior
    123 | December 12, 2013 11:08 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    Or, in modern terms…..run fast, run far.

    indeed!


  124. coldwarrior
    124 | December 12, 2013 11:09 am

    Daffy Duck wrote:

    @ coldwarrior:
    From your link, this was funny:
    A charitable reading suggests that ObamaCare’s net enrollment stands at about negative four million.
    Yeah, stand aside.

    :lol:

    so we paid a billion to uninsure 4 million folks???

    :lol:

    seriously, you cant write a scenario this bad and make it believable


  125. coldwarrior
    125 | December 12, 2013 11:12 am

    for rodan….


  126. 126 | December 12, 2013 11:14 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    seriously, you cant write a scenario this bad and make it believable

    Nope, you couldn’t. If we wanted the perfect example of government waste, fraud, and abuse we couldn’t have written it any better than ObamaCare is turning out to be. The question is, what will the voters think of that? We’ll know in 11 months.


  127. Daffy Duck
    127 | December 12, 2013 11:21 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    I will wager that a significant number of enrollees have no idea that they have to pay. And when (if) they get a bill, they will ignore it in lieu of buying Christmas presents, paying the heating bill, etc.


  128. 128 | December 12, 2013 11:23 am

    @ Rodan:

    Sunday’s good. Last night would have been pointless- firm holiday party and I really made a dent in the champagne.


  129. 129 | December 12, 2013 11:25 am

    Do ObamaCare enrollees pay monthly or annually?


  130. lobo91
    130 | December 12, 2013 11:27 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    The biggie I see is the one banning firearms ownership for “certain crimes”. Nice and vague.

    That’s just the title. The text specifies what those crimes are:

    Prohibits any person who is convicted of stalking, sexual battery, or assault and battery of a family member that results in serious bodily injury from possessing, transporting, or carrying a firearm or any other weapon for a period of five years following his conviction. A violation would constitute a Class 6 felony. The bill also provides for the forfeiture of any weapon possessed, transported, or carried in violation of the prohibition. Finally, the bill provides for a process by which a violator may petition the circuit court for a reinstatement of his rights to possess, transport, or carry a weapon.


  131. Bumr50
    131 | December 12, 2013 11:27 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Is that a trick question?


  132. Daffy Duck
    132 | December 12, 2013 11:30 am

    coldwarrior wrote:

    seriously, you cant write a scenario this bad and make it believable

    The problem is, do enough people see the link between Obama & ObamaCare, the link between ObamaCare and THEIR loss of insurance, etcetera, etcetera, and then remember those links when they go to the polls next November?

    Again, i AM a cynic.


  133. 133 | December 12, 2013 11:30 am

    Bumr50 wrote:

    @ MacDuff:

    Is that a trick question?

    Actually, I don’t know.


  134. Bumr50
    134 | December 12, 2013 11:32 am

    @ MacDuff:

    Neither do I.

    I don’t think they’ll pay AT ALL!!

    :-)

    Seriously, most of the current “enrollees” have been shuffled into Medicaid.

    Soooo, YOU pay bi-weekly!


  135. lobo91
    135 | December 12, 2013 11:32 am

    MacDuff wrote:

    Do ObamaCare enrollees pay monthly or annually?

    Monthly


  136. Daffy Duck
    136 | December 12, 2013 11:32 am

    @ Bumr50:

    Another cynic! Sweet. :-)


  137. lobo91
    137 | December 12, 2013 11:34 am

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    “We need to forgive our enemies, but not before they are hanged.” Proposed motto for the new Stout Hemp Rope Party.

    Just be sure to give proper credit for that motto. It came from Bear the Dog’s Twitter feed.


  138. 138 | December 12, 2013 11:37 am

    @ Bumr50:

    This seems to indicate that it’s monthly. That kinda keeps it in peoples’ faces constantly and that can’t be a bad thing.


  139. 139 | December 12, 2013 11:38 am

    Oh well, forgot the link.


  140. Da_Beerfreak
    140 | December 12, 2013 11:38 am

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    “We need to forgive our enemies, but not before they are hanged.” Proposed motto for the new Stout Hemp Rope Party.

    Just be sure to give proper credit for that motto. It came from Bear the Dog’s Twitter feed.

    I wouldn’t know. I don’t do Twitter.
    And I steal from the Internet all the time. :twisted:


  141. 141 | December 12, 2013 11:40 am

    lobo91 wrote:

    MacDuff wrote:

    Do ObamaCare enrollees pay monthly or annually?

    Monthly

    Thanks.


  142. 142 | December 12, 2013 11:43 am

    @ Iron Fist:

    Obamcare blew up in their faces.


  143. 143 | December 12, 2013 11:43 am

    @ lobo91:
    That’s not so bad, then, though I’ll ask why you are letting people out of prison when they are guilty if things like aggravated battery or sexual assault. I always go back to the Martha Stewart example. They don’t want felons to buy guns, and Martha Stewart is a convicted felon. I don’t believe that anyone could assert that she is a danger to the community. In an overlawed country like we find ourselves in today, it is just too easy to get busted on a “felony” that is meaningless.


  144. Daffy Duck
    144 | December 12, 2013 11:44 am

    @ MacDuff:

    OMG, this keeps getting better -- from your link:

    One additional point to keep an eye on: If consumers pay their first month’s premium but then stop paying, insurers cannot drop them from their plans for 90 days.

    Blue Cross / Blue Shield (et. al.) will be bankrupt by next May. LOL.


  145. lobo91
    145 | December 12, 2013 11:45 am

    @ MacDuff:

    I only know that because there was some discussion awhile back about the fact that if someone pays the first month’s premium and then stops paying, the insurance company is required to continue their coverage for another 90 days before cancelling them.


  146. 146 | December 12, 2013 11:45 am

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    “Plageurism is the root of all culture.”


  147. lobo91
    147 | December 12, 2013 11:47 am

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    You don’t want to make Bear angry…


  148. lobo91
    148 | December 12, 2013 11:48 am

    Mike C. wrote:

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    “Plageurism is the root of all culture.”

    Is that a Joe Biden quote?


  149. Da_Beerfreak
    149 | December 12, 2013 11:50 am

    lobo91 wrote:

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    You don’t want to make Bear angry…

    Wouldn’t know him from Adam. Never heard of the guy.


  150. lobo91
    150 | December 12, 2013 11:50 am

    Health Official Who Authenticated Obama Birth Certificate Dies In Plane Crash

    The Hawaii health official who verified the authenticity of President Obama’s birth certificate has died in a small plane crash, authorities said Thursday.

    The plane, with a pilot and eight passengers aboard, went down Wednesday in the water off the Hawaiian island of Molokai, the Maui Fire Department said. The Honolulu Star-Advertiser was among the first outlets to report that the lone fatality was Loretta Fuddy. Tom Matsuda, the interim executive director of Hawaii’s health insurance exchange, later confirmed Fuddy’s death.

    Fuddy, 65, became acting health director in January 2011. After being confirmed as the permanent health director, Fuddy made news in April 2011 when she verified the authenticity of certified copies of President Barack Obama’s birth certificate, proving that he had been born in Hawaii.

    Coincidence? Or karma?


  151. lobo91
    151 | December 12, 2013 11:54 am

    @ Da_Beerfreak:

    He’s a dog, not a guy. Hence the name.

    Bear is a Belgian Malinois adopted by John Reese. A trained military dog, he responds only to Dutch commands.

    Which is why his Twitter feed is in Dutch…


  152. Speranza
    152 | December 12, 2013 11:57 am

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    I work best when I get the “hey we need a thread on this — write one” email from Rodan or Speranza.

    He (Speranza) is worn out, burned out, and dispirited.


  153. 153 | December 12, 2013 11:58 am

    lobo91 wrote:

    Mike C. wrote:
    @ Da_Beerfreak:
    “Plageurism is the root of all culture.”
    Is that a Joe Biden quote?

    Pete Seeger, actually. Who stole it from his father. Who probably stole it from somebody else.


  154. Bumr50
    154 | December 12, 2013 11:59 am

    Are we gonna have an Ol’ Blue Eyes thread today?


  155. 155 | December 12, 2013 12:01 pm

    @ Mike C.:
    @ Speranza:

    Time for a new season of Ripper Street. That should revive you.


  156. 156 | December 12, 2013 12:05 pm

    Oooo. Charlie Brown Christmas song just came on the iPod…..so sweet.


  157. 157 | December 12, 2013 12:08 pm

    @ Speranza:

    I’ve given up as well. If people want to jump off a cliff let them. I’m done warning people.


  158. 158 | December 12, 2013 12:09 pm

    New Thread.


  159. 159 | December 12, 2013 12:11 pm

    We’ve heard of ObamaCare’s threats to hospitals, doctors and drugs yet I haven’t heard specifically about tests (MRIs, etc), one of the most expensive components of healthcare. That’s a big one.


  160. 160 | December 12, 2013 12:19 pm

    Obamacare is such a disaster they’re thinking of having Maureen McGovern record a theme song.


  161. 161 | December 12, 2013 12:35 pm

    Sign language interpreter for Mandela memorial says he was hallucinating, often becomes ‘violent’

    Lovely. It’s amazing the only real incident was Obama and Cameron acting like horny teenage boys.


  162. 162 | December 12, 2013 12:45 pm

    Carolina Girl wrote:

    Lovely. It’s amazing the only real incident was Obama and Cameron acting like horny teenage boys.

    Good one! Filling in for Dennis Miller this afternoon, are ya? :D


  163. 163 | December 12, 2013 12:47 pm

    @ MacDuff:

    It’s pretty bad when your excuse for your behavior is “I was hallucinating”. Was he on LSD? Or were the hallucinations a result of an unsound mind? Obama talks abou twanting to keep guns out of the hands of mentally disturbed people, and that is OK, I guess, if it is done properly (though I have no confidence whatsoever that the Obama Administration would be pruedent about the matter. Thir goal is to make possession of weapons a crime, and love of weapons into a mental disorder), but, you know, shouldn’t you not have hallucinating psychotics as part of the Royal entourage?


  164. RIX
    164 | December 12, 2013 12:49 pm

    I have one again navigated the complexities of the TSA!
    This is lunacy, do not let them unionize.


  165. 165 | December 12, 2013 1:19 pm

    @ RIX:

    Federal employees should not be allowed to unionize, period. I’m not thrilled about the unions in the Private Sector, either. From what I see, the unions are abou t shelling out large sums of money to the union bosses, while setting up a high barrier to entry for workers. If you don’t know someone in the union, good luck in getting a union job.


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